Guild Wars 2

ugh not metabattle, not for necros.

I’m sorry but the metabattle signet necro build is useful only if you running a team coordinated enough to take advantage of the corrupts and keep you up. Otherwise it’s just fodder for everything while having mediocre sustain even by necro standards.

The only time I run signet corrupts is against a warrior stack, the rest of the time I’d rather run a curses build with shouts and spectral.

Ya’ll are mistaking out-of-meta for underpowered.

We are out of meta, we are not underpowered.

The reason we are out of meta is because shroud is non-scaling, which is both a strength and a weakness. Our defenses don’t scale to damage taken which means that we overperform in bunker metas and underperform in bursty meta.

We exceled in S1 and S2 where the bunker meta meant that there wasn’t enough damage output to be a threat to us. We are underperforming in s3 and s4 because the meta has turned to burst and we aren’t scaling with it.

Lightsbane.9012:

it’s been my opinion on nearly everything that functionality should always come First before any sort of theme is planned, with every game i’ve played.
this seems to be in the reverse from a design perspective in this game. I wonder how structurally sound bridges would be if they were designed to be pretty first instead of stable.

thoughts?

The classes are built around having specific playstyles, and thematic derived from that.

Necromancers are designed as damage soaker class, rather than a damage avoidance class. That is the playstyle that the class was given.

The problem however is that at higher levels of play avoidance mechanics trump everything else which leaves Necros in the dust.

As a necro I don’t think giving us blocks or invulns is the way to go. We have never been a damage avoidance class and I see no value in turning necros into wannabe guardians just to suit a meta that will be gone in a month or two.

Necros problem in the current meta is that death shroud as a defensive ability does not scale with incoming damage which means we get screwed under focus fire. A potential solution would be to get a % of incoming damage converted to life force, thus allowing death shroud to scale better with focus fire.

afrocrusade.4253:

Crinn.7864:

Ah yes the “everyone else but me is undeserving” belief.

Never judge a player based a single moment or fight, you don’t know what they where seeing on their screen, and chances are there are players out there that think you don’t deserve your rank.

A single moment? Fair.

3 games in a row? A warrior yoloing far? People not being able to rotate for entire games?

No. I queued earlier today on stronghold. I got 3 thieves on my team. They all instantly died to a single warrior, and spent the rest of the game screaming “KILL TREB IDITS”.

I’m not the emperor of PvP. I make mistakes. People make mistakes, and mistakes are never an issue. This is something so far beyond any comprehension of stupid it should not have the title “Legend.”

you never know
https://youtu.be/JRiLk9qw59Y?t=7m56s

R O C.6574:

I like where MithranArkanere.8957 is going with recording the builds of players. I would think you could develop an algorithm that takes game/player stats and looks for trends associated with certain builds. They key of course is identifying relevant data that aims you toward the goal of balance.

Any mathematicians care to take a stab at the number of possible build combinations per class?

This link says over 154 trillion for just warrior, but this was before HOT and the change to trait lines: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/39758-guild-wars-2-total-build-combinations/

Once you figure that out, you could set up a “bucket” for each build to store data into. I’m thinking there will be trillions of “buckets,” but i’d imagine that there will only be millions that get filled. Once the data is collected it can be used to identify OP builds based on objective data. It sounds like a kittened amount of data, but i would think that the vast majority of these buckets will end up empty. Good Luck

I’m not the expert, but taking subjective feedback as a basis for change will not achieve the goal…

why such low goals?

Everything that every character ever does is recorded by the server. The only limitation to the data collection is your own imagination. This is called metrics, and it’s a industry standard.
It’s child play to find what class and build win the most and under what circumstances and MMR level. The data is already stored and merely has to be searched.

On another note you don’t want to consider every possible build independently. Changing a couple traits or a utility does not constitute a entirely different build. It would be more advantageous to look at trait line choices relative to amulet and weapon choices.

Spartacus.3192:

Power Creep is a not meant to mean “power”, Its describing a generally increase in “strength” of a the class, be it power, condi. CD reduction, passives etc.

It’s worth noting that “power creep” refers to the entire power level (power as in the abstract term not the stat) of the game increasing. Buffs to a individual class are not necessarily power creep as long as the class getting buffed is below the power level of the meta.

Power Creep only occurs if a class is buffed to where it exceeds the power level of the meta and therefore forces the meta to be readjusted around the newly buffed class.

in-depth explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3b3hDvRjJA

Ah yes the “everyone else but me is undeserving” belief.

Never judge a player based a single moment or fight, you don’t know what they where seeing on their screen, and chances are there are players out there that think you don’t deserve your rank.

I’ve never seen a matchmaker in any game that is able to prevent blowouts. It’s just a fact of PvP.

As a necro, no.
Necros are not a avoidance class, it’s not our design, and there is no reason to turn us into wannabe guardians just to appease a meta that will probably change in a month.

It’s clearly shenanigans caused by all that unstable magic that is everywhere since that thingy blew up over in maguuma.

Yes lets make boon removal a Mesmer thing so that necros can be even more worthless.

/s

I very distinctly remember a forum quote from a dev a few months ago stating that profession specific MMR had been removed.

Warriors straight hardcounter necros. A corruption reaper playing his corrupts perfectly is still going to be fighting at a massive disadvantage to a warrior. Necros simply do not have the damage mitigation to handle a warrior and lack the disengages to escape.

Boon corrupts are fine and in this current meta are the only thing that even makes necroes useful.

And lord help any necro not running a corruption build, as a non-corruption necro will have trouble getting a warrior below 90%.

The problem with allowing blocks to affect who you get on your team, is that it opens the door to people using block to metagame the matchmaker for their own advantage.

For example when Overwatch was first launched the “avoid player” option kept you from being put in matches with those players. This lead to people hitting “avoid” on every single player that was noticeably better than them.

Then make some

Seriously me and a friend everytime we log in pick some random class and come up with a totally not meta build for it and run it. We’ve found some surprisingly strong builds doing that.

Here is the actual skill rankings of the classes.

Listed from most skill requiring to least skill requiring.
1. the class I main
2. my second favorite class
3. the class that sucks against my favorite classes
4. the class that is meh against my favorite classes
5. non-viable class
6. non-meta class.
7. class that is ok against my second favorite class
8. class that is ok against my main
9. class that counters my main.

Galtrix.7369:

Yeah, a team-deathmatch mode would be kinda fun and more balanced.

No it wouldn’t. It would simply be down to whatever has the best survivability-to-damage ratio. What’s worse is that since there are no points there are no rotations which means you can not use mobility and whatnot to fudge viability.

TDM is a terrible gamemode.

This thread needs more salt

Generally speaking PvP guilds tend to only recruit via word of mouth. The ones that recruit through the forum probably aren’t worth much anyways.

With almost every ability in the game being either a AoE or a cleave…..

…no

Rezzet.3614:

the diference is condition builds corrupt boons converting them into conditions
conditions apply debuffs, some of wich greatly negate power builds , (Weakness)(Daze)(slow)(Chill)

Necros are the only class that can bring any real amount of boon corrupt. Please stop lumping classes together.

condition damage cannot be mitigated as it ignores armor, conditions only have 1 damage modifier thus condition builds can run tank
condition builds have several unblockable abilities such as necro marks , arcane thievery

No. If condition builds only needed 1 modifier then PvE condi builds would be running Dire (or rather carrion because agro mechanics) They don’t because running only condition damage gets about the same amount of DPS that running Soldier does.

Condi classes take defensive stat amulets for the same reason that power classes always run paladins or marauders. Because in a game where most classes optimized DPS is twice their base HP, running anything other than heavy defense is suicide.

you may evade a condition or two but you still will get a ton slapped on you specially in team fights once you are focused you’re dead and all you can do is watch your hp wittle away

Condi applying abilities can be dodged the same way that power attacks can be. Also stop trying to equate AoEs and condis, they are not mutual.

Rifle Warrior

/15quaggans

nolasthitnotomorrow.8563:

To be honest I don’t understand how is that different to normal damage. You either counter taking damage or you take damage, don’t let them apply condis :v

The problem is that because condi types are standardized players end up just lumping all condi applying things together without making any distinctions.

That said meta condi warrior is ridiculously overtuned.

mrauls.6519:

There should never have been a support elite spec. Everyone should be a unique form of DPS with the ability to sustain themselves…

…which creates extremely 1-dimensional gameplay and balance. Under such a system teams would just stack whichever build has the best DPS-to-survivability ratio and call it a day.

People need to realize that just because they got traumatized by WoW’s crap doesn’t mean that all vaguely trinity-esque systems are bad.

And then comes the realization that only a couple condi builds are even viable, and that the few condi builds that are meta aren’t meta because of the condis but rather because of other factors.

The problem with condis is that people see them on their bar and their brain starts equating all of the damage they are taking to those condis.

If you are seriously taking Blood Reckoning as a heal, I don’t see why you are so enamored of the defense traitline. BR is so bad for survivability you might as well go arms/strength for maximum glass cannon.

Vagrant.7206:

I’m not denying that that’s possible, but the problem is that a single player shouldn’t be able to handle more than 2 players at a time, regardless of skill level. It makes the game ultimately dull.

Really? By most accounts N+1 gameplay is considered bad, largely as I understand it because N+1 gameplay fails to reward a player for skill.

SlaSh.5827:

And playing ranked is not even fun because of MM broken so nothing to do in this game. Well I will prolly play more often OW after the official annouce.

so you find the matchmaker bad, therefore you swapping to a game whose matchmaker for both quick play and competitive is a exact duplicate of the guild wars 2’s unranked and league?

Leagues should be:
A) Indicative of skill
B) good high quality matches.

Pick one.

The fact of the matter is that you can’t have good quality matches without making division position a farce. Why? Because if matches are equal and competitive then all players regardless of skill end up advancing. To make league position relevant you have to expose bad players to good players and let the pecking order hash out. Which of course creates blowouts.

Anet’s mistake was ditching the late season 1 (post amber-shopping fix) matchmaker. Yeah league position is more skill based than it was in season 1 but the match quality was so much better back then. (well ignoring the bunker shenanigans)

Behellagh.1468:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Is this a ligit thread? I mean one game of PvP can be all it takes some days, other days it’s like what? View a vista, gather, do some events, and a JP. How is that not casual friendly?

Not everyone is willing to play PvP. Not everyone have a character of every profession, or enough to cover the requested “win with X”.

The point of the daily system is to get people to try things that they might not otherwise do.

It’s a incentive to get players past their natural inertia.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Also, if mmr is reset, y would anyone complain? we all start on equal playing field. Everyone the same. Equality.

People aren’t looking for equality.

People are looking for good matches and progression. It doesn’t matter how “fair” the system is if the matches are blowouts and a person can’t progress.

If you boil people’s complaints down you’ll notice that nearly all players value the following three points.
1. Good match quality. (note: whether a match is won or lost tends to bias people’s perception of the match quality)
2. Achieveable Progression (where the definition of “achievable” varies based on the player’s capabilities)
3. Meaningful reward for achieving/progressing. (basically exclusivity of rewards)

Season 1 worked well with points 1 and 2 but failed epically at point 3. Season 2 just failed at everything. Season 3 so far seems to just be “meh” in all categories.

Necro wells are utility effects, typically used for the condis, boons, or life steal they apply not for their straight up damage potential.

Guardian traps only function in life is to hit things hard.

Guys the season lasts until July. You weren’t seriously expecting to just blow right to the top in the early days of the season where you?

Hesacon.8735:

Carrion exists. Use your rune set to get precision.

175 precision isn’t worth squat.

Novuake.2691:

Any chance we can get a 4 stat amulet with either or both of the below spread?

Power and condi mainstate.
Precision and vitality or swap vital fpr toughness.

I would love these.

A condi equivalent of the Marauders amulet would be nice yes. Sadly anet apparently believes that only power classes are allowed to have defensive stats.

foogison.5067:

Matchmaking is back to 50/50 odds whether or not this is unintentional, everyone I have talked to in game has said the same thing.

People where saying it’s 50/50 in season2 despite all the evidence (and dev quotes) to the contrary.

Some people are still living in season 1.

Shiyo.3578:

Power builds have to deal with block, invuls, dodges, etc and have to actually time their damage perfectly.

Except condi builds have to deal with all of those too.

Condis have to be applied, to apply a condi you have to land a attack, if your target dodges or blocks said attack, no conditions are applied.

The problem here is that 50/50 forced isn’t how ranked works. 50/50 is just the equilibrium point where your skill evens out.

Now if we are talking about unranked you might have a few valid points.

When people QQ about power classes they specify what class and build is the problem.

When people QQ about condi classes they just throw all condi builds together and make sweeping generalizations.

I don’t understand this game’s community.

GW2 has less powercreep than any mmo on the market, yet the players here kitten about powercreep 3x more than any other game on the market.

At this point I feel like people have just decided that something isn’t right, but can’t actually figure out what’s disturbing them, so they just blame power creep and call it a day.

There is no way for Anet to verify that a DDOS actually happened. All anet (and us) have for evidence is a video recording of somebody yelling that their being DDOS’ed and then disconnecting.

If Anet gave rematches every time someone claimed DDOS then the obvious play would be for losing teams to be like “oh noes DDOS!” and then disconnecting themselves.
———
If you’re a famous streamer or proleague player you need to have all the DDOS protection you can get and you should take all precautions with your IP. In this age being internet famous means it’s a question of “when” not “if” you’ll be targeted.

displacedTitan.6897:

Other than WoW and Runescape (WHY?) no other MMO has any viewers either, especially a year+ after launch. They cost money to play, are a niche genre and are just boring to watch someone stream.

This.

MMORPGs are fun to play but terrible to watch. GW2 is no exception.

I don’t understand why people think necros having chill uptime is some huge problem.

Every single kitten condi class in the game has 1-2 condi type that they put out in large amounts.

Condi Guard -burn
Condi Engi – burn with minor amounts of bleed and poison
Condi Beserker – burn with a side of bleed
Condi revenant – torment with a side of poison
Condi Mesmer – confusion with a side of torment
Condi theif – bleed and poison
Condi ele (this really should be a thing) – bleed and burn

Ravenmoon.5318:

I’m pretty sure the system currently makes a snapshot of your character and when the split runs out the snapshot is going replacing your current player instance. This makes recognition of abilities kind of difficult. Unless they hardcode some kitten.

Hardcoding kitten is bad.

I highly doubt it’s hardcoded at least not on the “can’t be changed” level. Abilities are all done through scripting anyways, presuming that split’s functionality is hardcoded into the engine is silly.

Also if I where to guess at split’s implementation I would assume that split simply records the CD values of your abilities and your position and heath, and when it runs out it simply sets your CDs/health/position.

My programmer’s gut tells me that copying the player’s instance and then reverting would be a quick way to some crazy bugs. Although really I question if copying and reverting the player’s instance is even doable in a mmo.

Granted this is all speculation derived of guestimation.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

OP actually has a good point.

A-Net should read this.

No, Classes are designed so that running certain traitline combos exclude you from running others. Or in other words you can’t have everything.

Example: Under the OP’s system a Engi could run a firearms and explosives super-DPS build while still being able to grab alchemy and Scrapper defensive lines.

Or hell imagine Soul Reap/Curses/Spite/Reaper necros.

The 3 rules of game balance.

1.) The current meta is always the worst
2.) The meta from the early days of the game was always the best one
3.) Whatever the patch notes say is the exact opposite of what should have happened.

These rules are true for all multiplayer games.

The problem skyhammer had was that it had edges + breakable floor + jump pads + the laser itself.

Those mechanics on their own are fine, having all of them on the same map is painful. It’s the same problem EOTM and DBLs have – excessive mechanic density.

My beef with the patch is that Anet decided to fix the density of skyhammer by removing everything but the hammer. Which makes the map feel redundant since we already have a artillery strike mechanic in the form of Kyhlo.

Personally I think the map would have been great if they removed the cannon and lowered the density of the breakable panels and left everything else.

It’s one day after a patch that made drastic changes to every class. Can we not at least wait for the meta to settle before we go declaring XYZ to be broken?

I feel like removing all of the edges from skyhammer killed the map.

The breakable panes where over the top but the edges should have stayed.