Guild Wars 2

Aomine.5012:

Your biased opinion is not important at all.

;)

Anyway, can we get this back on topic please – I’d like to discuss more about why F2 is on a much higher cooldown than F1 and changes that would make sense – such as buffing F2 to make it worth the longer cooldown or reducing its cooldown.

Ground targeting would be amazing.

Zintrothen.1056:

Now that they’re aware of this, they’ll do the logical thing…increase the CD of MW to that of CoF!

lol, oh god I hope not! xD

Why is F2 still over double the cooldown of F1 when the only effective difference is much less damage in exchange for one confusion stack per illusion shattered?

Even if traited up, in power builds F2 is boon strip setup or supplementary burst damage, whereas F1 delivers all the pain on half the cooldown. In condition the only difference is the extra confusion stack.

Traited with Condition removal/healing, vulnerability, blinds, torment, might, and stability (+3x might or vigour) there’s not much difference (apart from bountiful disillusionment).

And then you’ve got Mental Anguish which significantly boosts F1 but doesn’t do much to F2.

I’m just confused what makes F2 deserving of double the cooldown of F1?

In light of the MtD nerf, perhaps F2 could have one torment stack as standard – which would fit with the theme, give a dedicated “burst” shatter for condition builds while not allowing them to be “overpowered” by being able to burst on all shatters, and make F2 worth the much longer cooldown.

Either that or half the cooldown of F2.

Very creative, I like it.

It doesn’t say “persona” in the thread. The actual line is:

“•Using any shatter skill now creates the shatter effect on you as well by default’

If you scroll down about halfway into that thread you’ll find Mesmer changes just before necromancer.

So, over a week into it and I am loving 90% of the changes.

I’ll make a brief list of things I am not content with:
- ileap clone summon delay – more of a hindrance
- confusing combatants removal – makes using non-native condition weapons (ie mainhand sword) much weaker in pure condition builds
- mtd nerf – still stings and my burst is weaker than pre-patch.

Everything else is beautiful.

Not bad – I like it better than the current setup. Nice one.

You might want to take some time to read through all the changes in the game release notes thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-23-2015/first#post5217689

There’s a lot to take in.

TyPin.9860:

What do you guys think of Chronomancer Shield and do you think it will be a viable option? I personally am super excited and can’t wait to use the Shield.

I can’t wait to use Scepter/Shield.

With deja vu it would mean 3 blocks, nice illusion generation and good cc.

Yeah I wish it was an Elite.

I don’t like using a utility slot for it. :/

Personally I think Chronomancer and Duelling will provide the most efficiency through Illusionary Reversion and DE – so you can combo shatter, ie setup either an F1/2/3 with 4 illusions (inc yourself of course, then dodge and F1/2/3 for an immediate 3 illusion follow up to maximise condition stacks.

Sadly that means dropping chaos, but I think it will have to be done.

As a single weapon: Focus (traited) – such a beautiful weapon, I wish I could have it in mainhand as well!

As a weapon set: Sword/Torch – I love the sheer evasiveness of this set. Blurred frenzy is such an amazing tool which can nullify shatter bursts, rapid fires, backstabs and all sorts of crazy damage bursts people can do to you. Especially quickness buffed rapid fire… just like Neo. Prestige offers additional defence while blurred frenzy is on cooldown.
I almost always open in this set to counter enemy burst damage before going on the offensive. iLeap is so much fun for catching people up ledges when they’re not expecting it (the post patch clone summoning delay is annoying though). I seriously can’t wait for alacrity and traiting mainhand sword for this set.

The extra delay before the clone is summoned means you can accidently cancel ileap by dodging immediately after beginning the cast, which prevents the clone from appearing, prevents swap and puts the skill on full cool down.

It is irritating and clunky.

apharma.3741:

stealth on a slow class like Mesmer is a bad joke and generally most roamers can catch up the 3-4s gap easily.

Just as an interesting side note.

Using Traveler runes, traited blink, torch, decoy, mass invis, traited staff for reverse phase retreats and Mirror for reflects, I have been able to outrun fairly large groups (which also happen to contain warriors, rangers and thieves among others) – running in straight lines as well.

Add in a bit of misdirection/changing direction with the long stealth duration and not many can keep up unless they’re seriously intent on chasing you, especially once you get out of combat and at “normal” running speed.

CI? Seriously?

That’s ridiculous.

I do wish they’d make this possible in the future for traits, runes and sigils. Only challenge is figuring out where exactly on the UI they should go.

denis.9487:

Plus since conditions are a non issue I can slot signet of inspiration to take advantage of swiftness. Plus the random boon really helps with pack runes and inspiration line.

Yeah I must try the signet of inspiration with + swiftness duration.

I’m finding with the amazing mantra buff that I have enough condition removal from Mantra of Resolve (pretty much have 4 casts of it at the start of every fight with a small recharge delay halfway in between, so 8 conditions can be blown off in quick succession – at which point I can run/reset until it cools down again in around 18 seconds by the time you’ve used the second two charges – but in practice I never need to use it all in one go so I’ve got a steady stream of condition removal) and the torch trait.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Curunen.8729:

Bountiful Disillusionment is fantastic in pvp if not playing interrupt. The stability is fantastic, and together with other weapon skills (staff/focus) and F3/F4 makes you an excellent stomper/reviver.

For example if downing an enemy in 1v1 you don’t have to waste distortion to stomp – just mind wrack for the stability and save your cooldowns.

I think one or two of the boons on it are a bit strange though. Stability should stay of course – that’s the best thing about the trait. Might on F1 is excellent, Vigour on F2 is great.

But the extra boon on F3 and F4 are a bit weird. I could understand Fury on F3 if thinking about taking with Domination and going in for F3->F1 combo with vulnerability and then fury for max damage burst, but otherwise it’s a strange choice of boon – I’d rather see Protection on F3 (5 seconds)

Regen on F4 is… ok, but it seems a bit weak for a long cooldown shatter. I would rather see Resistance on F4 (3-5 seconds, depending on what is most balanced).

PU is of course God in wvw, so no comparison.

BD is good but could do with a little tweak to make it an equally attractive choice compared to CI.

All BD needs is for the boons to be 360 or 600 radius instead of the 240 it currently gives. Imo it is a contender to CI and PU, as it is a REALLY good trait.

kitten , that’s quite a buff! :o

I wouldn’t say no to a large radius.

denis.9487:

Curunen.8729:

If you’re roaming at the moment and for whatever reason not taking PU, you’ll find yourself at a disadvantage against pretty much every other mesmer who is taking PU. :/

Dom/duel/inspiration is a killer. Think better than pu for roaming imo.

It’s good, but PU currently makes it so incredibly easy to engage/disengage from anything – especially if suddenly getting 1vXed by a group.

If you’re roaming at the moment and for whatever reason not taking PU, you’ll find yourself at a disadvantage against pretty much every other mesmer who is taking PU. :/

Bountiful Disillusionment is fantastic in pvp if not playing interrupt. The stability is fantastic, and together with other weapon skills (staff/focus) and F3/F4 makes you an excellent stomper/reviver.

For example if downing an enemy in 1v1 you don’t have to waste distortion to stomp – just mind wrack for the stability and save your cooldowns.

I think one or two of the boons on it are a bit strange though. Stability should stay of course – that’s the best thing about the trait. Might on F1 is excellent, Vigour on F2 is great.

But the extra boon on F3 and F4 are a bit weird. I could understand Fury on F3 if thinking about taking with Domination and going in for F3->F1 combo with vulnerability and then fury for max damage burst, but otherwise it’s a strange choice of boon – I’d rather see Protection on F3 (5 seconds)

Regen on F4 is… ok, but it seems a bit weak for a long cooldown shatter. I would rather see Resistance on F4 (3-5 seconds, depending on what is most balanced).

PU is of course God in wvw, so no comparison.

BD is good but could do with a little tweak to make it an equally attractive choice compared to CI.

New look.

Just need to finish Bifrost, although I’m going to wait for HoT to get the precursor.

I like the idea that was tossed around a few days ago to make CS function like Ineptitude – ie, 10s ICD per foe.

So you’d still have great teamfight potential with it, but it wouldn’t be OP in 1v1 situations.

serenke.4806:

Curunen.8729:

Pink Portal Fairy.

Guild name – Portals Are [PINK]

Second time I’ve been blessed to witness this miracle of a norn. Amazing character design.

And he still fails to accept that portals are purple. Also… “amazing” is not the first thing that comes to mind. Nightmare inducing more likely.

xD

He’s like the elusive “Fairy Godfather” of mesmers. It’s the face that really sells it for me.

I agree with CS competing with Shattered Concentration – two powerful traits that will force a tough choice between them, and each one has its merits.

Niminion.1982:

Maybe if there were actually torment/confusion runes and sigils?

I can buff burning and bleeding durations and damage but of course there is jack for torment and confusion.

Nothing in pvp other than Nightmare, but we have Tormenting and Perplexity for wvw.

As you said in the other thread – if MtD swapped positions with the Scepter trait, it could be left at full duration with 2 stacks because you’d get none of the benefits Ineptitude provides.

messiah.1908:

yes pretty much mtd is dead unless you dont run with condi cleanse

solution is to bring mtd to GM with 2 stacks and malicious sorcery to master.

this way mtd will compete with ineptitude

thus for 1v1 confusion and blind may be better and team fight mtd is better

you dont have to lower the duration as you saw it was cleanse frequently (and dont forget about runes and food which lower your condition duration up to 66% so from 8 sec it will be 2.3 sec thus with 4 sec it will be 1 sec (again too much nerf))

Yeah of course if it was made to “compete” with Ineptitude then it would be fine at 2 stacks for 6 seconds, because you’d get no extra benefit of confusion stacks from Ineptitude or Blinding Dissipation.

Come to think of it I think that’s the best solution.

Move MtD to Grandmaster tier – move Scepter trait down to Master. Force a choice between Ineptitude and MtD.

50% duration reduction would mean 3 seconds base, which I think is too much.

33% reduction would be better – from 6 seconds down to 4 seconds. 4 seconds “feels” right – not too much, but enough to push opponents to cleanse.

Also remembering we’ve lost condi duration form the traitlines so at most in pvp we can get only an extra 15% from nigihtmare runes and then depending on the number of boons with Chaotic Persistence. In wvw with tormenting runes of course you could get crazy duration from 6 seconds base (more than 11 seconds), but with 4 seconds base we will only be pushing 7 or 8 seconds in wvw with full duration bonuses.

@Windwalker – very well said.

Whatever they do I agree that there needs to be more refinement and options with amulet instead of these “one size fits all” amulets we have now.

Power shatter/interrupt, Domination/Duelling/Chaos.

Land those interrupts, blow them up with mind wrack.

No worries, it’s a good build so I’d be proud as well – enjoy it!

Good ideas, it would be nice to distinguish between the pink balls.

Edit: please don’t take this in the wrong way – I’m not an unpleasant person!

Everone going into Chaos traiting MoM is taking Mirror heal – which is pretty much every single condition build taking Chaos.

I’d say almost everyone playing condition shatter is taking DE in Duelling because Mistrust isn’t good enough.

Everyone playing condition shatter is taking scepter/x and whatever second set (either sword/x or staff).

I am happy that you are happy because it is a good build – but it is nothing more than a standard condition shatter build post patch.

Edit: Signet of Midnight has fewer converts yet I’d say, because between blink/decoy and condition removal or portal it has a lot to compete with, so that is your unique thing along with generosity sigils.

I think 180s on time warp is still far too long for what it does.

120s would be acceptable and I might be tempted to use it.

Wow, traited mirror with grenth runes and hydromancy sigils! :o

Running this:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VR3dZ;1kUV11I7sU-71;9;4TUV;0047256236;4WsG7T;1ecX9ecX92z

Still debating sigils – which to choose out of doom and energy – but hydromancy with the grenth runes is lovely on point. The chill procs are insane, no one takes much notice of the pDefender so you can take quite a few hits, and the overall cc is great.

Only weaknesses are:
1. Movement speed – need to waste curtain to run fast
2. Condition removal – can get overloaded

I think Mistrust could do with a buff because currently it feels much too weak a payoff for landing an interrupt – especially when compared to things like Power Block – unless enemies are all bunched together and you get overlapping interrupts. Either increase the stack or give it some secondary effect (weakness?).

So…

I’m tempted to give this a go again but obviously a big problem with the staff trait being in a bad state.

Going to try:
Duelling ~ Phantasmal Fury – EM – Mistrust
Chaos ~ MoM – CT (or CD) ~ CI
Inspiration ~ RM ~ WF ~ MD
Scepter/Focus + Staff and see how it goes.

Looking forward to your video messiah. Will be interesting to compare with your videos from before the patch.

bhagwad.4281:

Jeez man, some people are so touchy. It’s not a kittening contest. The guy is presenting a build he’s played with. Whether he thinks it’s “his”, or if it’s someone else’s, who cares? I don’t care if he calls himself the best mesmer in the world and everyone else is lame.

Grow up peeps.

Touchy much?

;)

I did add the 4th confusion for the 4 clone shatter.

With scepter block, if Ineptitude and Blinding Dissipation are traited then chances are you’re going to get the blind from blocking anyway so I didn’t bother counting a 5th stack. My mistake in confusing that.

Yes my mistake for not taking into account the number of skills an enemy would use if confused. Sure some players might spam a silly number of skills while confusion is on them, but in under 5 seconds I don’t see enough people spamming enough skills to provide enough confusion ticks to push a 4 illusion mind wrack well above a single scepter block.

I expect numbers from a single mind wrack to be significantly higher than a single scepter block out of principle, and I don’t see it in practice.

And for the record I have played with scepter post patch in this build (staff + scepter focus, sword/torch + scepter/pistol, sword/torch + scepter/focus…) so I have been able to deal good damage say from block dodge into CoF, focus pull into confusing images or whatever. The point is the condition burst from a full shatter without supplementary damage from weapon skills is too weak.

Pistol is irrelevant to the argument because it only deals in bleed and also fits into damage coming from weapon skills rather than from the shatter.

Regardless I believe pigeonholing our weapon choices in this build when there were more options before the patch is silly. I spoke too harshly about ineptitude which is a fantastic trait that I enjoy using, but I would trade blinding dissipation in a heartbeat if it meant getting 2 torment stacks on mtd back. With baseline IP and other things I feel we’re fine vs thieves anyway so I don’t find it necessary (although currently it is strong)

On that note I was also really looking forward to confusing combatants and running greatsword + sword/torch in a pure condition shatter (or hybrid), but with one trait deleted and the other nerfed that’s impossible now.

I read though the OP again with a different set of eyes and can see where you’re coming from – there are only a few comments that come across to me in that tone but the rest is natural excitement which I like to see.

So I apologise to the OP if I’ve misinterpreted your intent – although I would suggest changing the comment about blinding dissipation and not being so humble.

What pyro said.

It’s nothing to do with “claiming” a build – it’s the condescending tone the OP uses, “no one else is clever enough to think of this build” that prompted me to say something.

No offence OP, but there are thousands of mesmers in the game, and of those mesmers who actively visit this forum and play condition builds I’ll wager the vast majority of them have figured out this “groundbreaking” build.

What if….

Mimic was an elite skill and Mass Invis a utility skill? :o

(I might actually use it then)

Pretty standard post-patch condition build using Scepter/x and whatever off set.

Pretty much every single condition mesmer post-patch is running something similar with one or two minor trait/gear alterations.

I don’t mean to be dismissive but when you’re coming out with comments like “For example, everyone picks Blinding Dissipation, but compared to how much it shines in my build, it seems almost random everywhere else.” I find that pretty condescending to many players – the only “different” thing about this build is using generosity sigils instead of energy sigils.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

As someone who plays pretty much every class I can say with certainty that all MTD really needed was an internal CD.

It didn’t need to be changed so much, it just needed a slight adjustment to keep it in line.

I don’t think an internal cooldown would be a good idea given that it is already limited by shatter cooldowns and illusion generation. Even if you do hit several shatters in a row, the only difference would be an extra 2 torment stacks from IP if you’re in melee range.

Generally after baiting out cleanses (excluding shoutbows, eles and similar – thinking more of zerker thieves and suchlike here) and going in for the kill, it was the lingering duration that would have been a problem now – so opponents would have no choice but to watch their health bar drop away while not being able to do anything about it. 2 stacks would give high intensity burst ticks, but if it wore off after a shorter duration (say 4 seconds base instead of the 6 seconds we currently have and had) then it would give opponents a second chance if for whatever reason they are unable to cleanse.

I forgot to say that nevermind Scepter 2 traited with illusionists celerity which you get for free going into illusions is on an 8 second cooldown… that’s ridiculous when you think about trying to generate 3 illusions and be in melee range every time you shatter with mind wrack.

Then CoF is on a higher cooldown so less frequent, and I’d rather save Diversion/Distortion for utility than damage.

Edit: I forgot to add in the small amount of direct damage of mind wrack in a pure condition build – but in any case it’s only going to fill the gap to make it on par with scepter 2.

MailMail.6534:

Curunen.8729:

I’m glad your build has been effective. If you think I’m complaining for no reason, please test with those weapons (without scepter or pistol) and you’ll see it has been severely neutered compared to before the patch. I wouldn’t complain about a balance patch unless something really got to me, and it was the build I was enjoying the most by far. To have that rendered mostly harmless is difficult to swallow – I’m actually thinking of going back to power shatter which hopefully I’ll find fun enough that I can forget about MtD in the meantime.

I would prefer condition application to be shifted in some way – for example reduce Scepter 2 to 4 stacks for 6 seconds because I find it a joke that one scepter block can deal more torment for more duration than a 4 illusion shatter.

I’ll pass on testing sword. I believe you. And I’m not saying there’s no reason to complain. I’m just saying that as a build, there is some viability there despite the 50% torment nerf. It’s similar to how there was only 2 shatter specs (classic and double ranged). I imagine only 1 or 2 at most maim builds will emerge as “viable”.

Also, shatters don’t just apply torment. It also applies confusion. You’re looking at it without proper context in that example. One Scepter Block = 5 stacks of torment. One full melee MindWrack = 4 stacks of torment + 4-5 stacks of confusion. I’d rather stop seeing the Scepter2 comparison, because it’s inherently deceiving.

The 4 confusion on mind wrack lasts what, 4 seconds? And the 4 torment stacks last 6 seconds.

Scepter 2 5 torment stacks lasts 8 seconds.

Numbers will vary with build and enemy, but taking some numbers in my current pvp build sitting in HotM:

Mind Wrack:
6.5 seconds of torment = 502 (stationary), 1003 (moving)
4.25 seconds of confusion = 144 (no skill use), 251 (using skills)

Edit: To clarify, the numbers below are for a 4 illusion mind wrack.
Total damage if using skils and moving = 5016 (torment and confusion combined)
Total damage if using skills and not moving = 3012
Total damage if not using skills and moving = 4588
Total damage if not using skills and not moving = 2584

Scepter 2:
8.75 seconds of 5x torment = 3344 (stationary), 6687 (moving)

Durations and cleansing aside, unless I’m mistaken – the total damage of confusion+torment on a 4 illusion shatter is always less than the total damage of a scepter 2 torment stack, providing both of them last to their full duration. In reality they’re both usually cleansed so neither of them is going to be doing the full damage.

The extra blind and confusion from Ineptitude and Blinding Dissipation doesn’t matter because Scepter 2 blinds anyway and will add that extra stack of confusion as well.

Confusion is a poor substitute for torment, even with it ticking without an enemy using their skills. I’d rather lose blinding dissipation and ineptitude and have 2 torment stacks back.

I’m glad your build has been effective. If you think I’m complaining for no reason, please test with those weapons (without scepter or pistol) and you’ll see it has been severely neutered compared to before the patch. I wouldn’t complain about a balance patch unless something really got to me, and it was the build I was enjoying the most by far. To have that rendered mostly harmless is difficult to swallow – I’m actually thinking of going back to power shatter which hopefully I’ll find fun enough that I can forget about MtD in the meantime.

I would prefer condition application to be shifted in some way – for example reduce Scepter 2 to 4 stacks for 6 seconds because I find it a joke that one scepter block can deal more torment for more duration than a 4 illusion shatter.