Guild Wars 2

Choppy.4183:

As an amendment to my original post, what do people think about dropping weapon specific traits altogether? Someone, I can’t remember who, suggested this ages ago, replacing these traits with more generic status effects to weapon attacks.

An obvious example that people have called for is making the might stacking of Forceful Greatsword apply to all weapons. But we could take the concept further, like adding or boosting various conditions and buffs without naming the weapon.

Weapons would retain their core attacks but, in this way, someone could trait to make any weapon a halfway decent damage, condi, hybrid, or (soft) cc weapon, recognizing that some weapons would be naturally better for a particular role than others.

Weapons with lots of iterative attacks (gs, offhand axe) would be better for effect on hit or crit, weapon with lots of hard cc (mace, hammer) would be better for effects triggered by landing hard cc, dedicated ranged weapons would be better for effects tied to ranged attacks, etc.

The rationale for this approach is much clearer for warrior than any other class – we have so many weapons to choose from, slotting weapon traits in a way that doesn’t create conflict is nearly impossible. Taking this approach, players select the effects they like and have them interact with any weapons they choose to equip.

Leg Specialist is an example of a trait that takes this sort of approach.

Thoughts?

This is a good idea. Perhaps though, we should have both. I’ve Always been a fan of traits that allow me to boost specific weapons, although some of these traits are designed and allocated way better then others, with Forceful GS simply being overpowered af.

For instance, getting might on a critical hit is good enough for a GM trait. Take it out of Forceful GS, but let that trait exist for the people that do want to use GS (to increase dmg and reduce it’s cooldowns).

Another example, Blademaster. Take out the increased crit chance against bleeding foes, which is surely enough for a Master trait on it’s own, and let the cooldown reduction remain for sword (maybe add another effect on crit for sword to the trait to make it comparable to Forceful GS).

You would have to find additional space for these traits, but think of the possibilities it would open up.

I think these changes are completely in line with traits I see for other classes (stuff like getting torment on crits, applying might to yourself and others when getting a boon, etc.). These traits do not discriminate and can thus be used for any weapon set.

Choppy.4183:

On the issue of having to pass up core traits for your build (e.g. condi traits on a condi build) because they’re all located in one or two spots, I actually see that as a good thing.

One of the reasons Anet shifted to the current approach to traitlines was to make balancing easier than it was, and this would help with that. Warriors have too much condi pressure? Well, we know where to look for that… Arms and Berzerker. That sort of thing.

Besides, being able to take 12 full traits dedicated to condi (via Arms and Berserker), or direct damage, etc, is probably better than we have now anyway.

And, yes, additional attention would have to be paid to new combinations. For example, we shouldn’t want warriors that can one-shot opponents, especially at range, by way of some crazy new trait combo.

But here again, I think Anet’s current approach to traits (three full lines, rather than trait points) makes balancing way easier than it used to be under the trait-point system. Failing that, the skills that are disproportionately benefiting from a particular trait combo could always be adjusted (e.g. Kill Shot on a full YOLO setup).

That’s the intent here… to set up clear roles for each traitline that corresponds to a major plank in a given build so better support build synergy, player options, and maintaining balance for the good of the game.

Well, havign to pick between traits that would fit your build really well is not what other classes have to do right now. The amount of synergy I can get between traits on my Revenant or Guardian is nuts and I find myself giggling over some new synergy that I discover a lot these days.

Warrior just does not seem smooth in that sense.

Like I said in Magnuss’ topic, I think you guys are on to something here. The three choices per traitline seems the way to go to me.

My comment was directed more to that I think that the names of traitlines don’t matter at all.

I realise what you and Choppy are trying to do here. I honestly think the 3 choices in every line is the best way to go. It will be difficult to make all three viable and interesting in every traitline, but our traitlines are pretty bad as is anyway (three of them being too weak and one of them having a mandatory trait).

What’s your take on Fast Hands? Because that trait alone gives us a mandatory traitline. We can rename and reorganise as much as we want, but with the existence of Fast Hands, choices will remain limited to 2 traitlines out of 5.

And arguably, Defense will be mandatory for PvP. Right now, taking YOLO Str/Dis/Ber is fun but you die.

Choppy.4183:

I think Berserker provides this already… a bit of a wildcard that could be used for condi, direct damage, or survival. Which path you’d take would depend on your other trait choices and your objectives.

Spreading condis to Strength or direct damage buffs to Arms, I can’t see though… it would just feel like muddling up like we have now, spreading the relevant traits for a build across more than three traitlines.

Your suggestion seems good.

A problem I see is that if every warrior line offers a ‘theme’, you can only take so many traits that benefit you. For example, if you put all condi traits into 1 line, you will lose out on a few traits simply because you have to pick another in that spot. At least now, you can arguably still get all the condi traits by picking ‘awkward’ traitlines. The over-discussed topic of Fast Hands baseline comes to mind here.

As of right now, the gank heavy class that is warrior can do just that reasonably well; ganking. If you take Str, Dis and Berserker, your damage is absolutely batpoop crazy right now.

Still, Anet should follow this topic closely.

Wha?

What he’s saying about other classes having too many blinds and blocks and w/e, it’s true. The thing is, you can not go about fixing warrior by just shaving those things off (although, admittedly, mesmers have way too much stuff right now).

They actually tried to give the warrior tools to counteract these imbalances. Stuff like Signet of Might, Berserker’s Stance, Brawler’s Recovery, etc. Too bad they removed the might on getting blocked trait in Strength, I really liked that one.

All this didn’t do anything for us, though. The problem being, that without slotting defensive utilities, we die. Even with those, warriors have a hard enough time as is surviving against anything.

tl;dr: you slot defensive utilities means you lose to spammy counterabilitites, slotting offensive means you lose to burst. And other classes have a lot of that even when they build enough defense.

How to fix it? Hard to say. Baseline Fast Hands has been mentioned many times, although I don’t think that would be enough honestly. The easy to predict and thus easy to counter playstyle of warrior will probably always lead to having a disadvantage, no matter how passively strong warrior gets.

I really hoped Berserker would’ve added a layer of dept to offset this nature of the class.

Swapped to Revenant also, fun class to play. I absolutely kitten on every warrior I meet (even good ones) and I suck balls at Rev.

Might give DH a go too, and I still need to unlock chronomancer (which is also a lot of fun).

Especially with revenant pumping out all the boons your party could ever need, I see condi war could be quite good in PvE. You can stack like 25 burn by yourself? Just make sure to use Balthazar and top off the burn duration at 100%.

killahmayne.9518:

It would also make Berserker an option.

Fixed that for you bro. I’ve tried, but Berserker can not be picked over another traitline currently. Discipline is what you would drop if you were to take it, but not if you lose FH. Condi warrior, or even hybrid war could be alright if you can take something like Str/Arms+Def+Berserker.

Revenant is fun. And strong.

I don’t know, never commanded and never will, but this looks like a Zerg oriented trait…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Radiant_Revival

You can do a proper Hulk Smash every 2 seconds…. What’s not to like?

BassHunteR.7246:

Not funny at all.. i dont even feel like it is worth getting the hero points to play it.. and my main is warrior

This. I didn’t get them and won’t unless things change, drastically.

Then again, Herald and Chronomancer are fun.

The thing about this topic that really puts me off is that 9 out of 10 suggested buffs involve passive crap.

Give me something that requires skill to increase my sustainability.

The Wild Blow thing in the OP seems like a good general direction, but Wild blow creates distance between you and your target, making this a ranged trait only. And warrior sucks balls at range.

Berserker doesn’t need to be buffed, it needs to add something we lack. This is what every other Specialization has done for every other class.

That being said, warrior DMG right now is kittened IMO. Survivability is mediocre when you slot the ever so boring double Endure Pain. This has made warrior into a gank or be ganked class, and that playstyle tends to become boring very quickly (at least, to me). Still, the damage is kittened.

The Ultimate Thor to add to my collection of Avengers

I just…made one? And it’s fun…

Lemme ask, what build did you use?

I’ve tried it as well. Some things I found.

Bull’s Rush seems very suboptimal, although the added mobility is nice since you do lack GS.

The runeset, obviously, Perplexity is better. It is that confusion spike that allows you to fight outnumbered. You spike the confusion on one guy, then focus the lockdown on the other.

I went with a combination of Carrion armor and Celestial trinkets, combined with Sigil of Intelligence on Hammer. Along with Merciless Hammer and sigil of intelligence, you can pull of a decent 6-10k direct damage lockdown burst depending on your target.

Fun build, you can faceroll a lot of enemies in WvW thanks to the surprise effect of a warrior stacking 12-20 stacks of confusion whilst retaining decent direct damage.

I don’t want a refund.

Chronomancer and Reaper seem really fun. So does Rev.

And the old warrior will still be fun also.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

A big flaw you have is right now Thief is kinda useless in any roaming situation or competitive besides +1 or decapping, unless you are running the Ghost Thief build, and if you are losing using that build you have other issues, Thieves have been nerfed to near oblivion except for niche mobility, so comparing that class to mesmer right now is useless, when they have nothing else going for them.

Well I can see what you mean, thief is quite underpowered right now. In roaming, however, with the exceptional power of stealth, they are still prefectly viable in my opinion.

The thing I tried to make clear is that in the past, thief has had nerf over nerf trying to tone down the damage, especially the backstab (or CnD/Heartseeker into backstab) variety. This was done because the devs said there was too little reaction time for a player to do something about the instant stealth damage. Right now, Mesmer has exactly that, and arguably worse (because you get insane control to make sure the combo lands). Even if the target is tanky, you can simply chip some of their HP away with phantasms or GS auto-attacks combined with Air/Fire (from 1200 range, unreflectable). Get ’m down to ~60% HP=profit.

As much as I love how the class plays (the amount of control, the shatters, Chronomancer, reflects, stealth), it just seems so incredibly powerful compared to the other classes in which I have a lot of experience. I have roamed all three since launch, but never have I been able to do what I can do right now on Mesmer, and, honestly, that’s without breaking a sweat. I consider myself no more then average at it.

I don’t know how it is in PvP as I stopped playing that quite some time ago. I realise that with stuff like guard stacks, food buffs, etc., WvW is not the most suited testing ground for determining ‘overpoweredness’, but that doesn’t mean WvW, even the roaming scene, should be dominated so easily by any one class or spec.

That being said, conditions, in any way shape or form, are still worse. Complete imbalance when it comes to skill required vs payoff. Funny enough, PU condi mesmer is the worst offender in this regard as well.

The entire original post does not invite real discussion IMO, but we can still try.

You mention mesmer now being able to do more damage from stealth then thief can. How can this be intended when thief is meant to be the assassination class?

I play mesmer, as well as thief and warrior. I am way more skilled at the other two, yet the rewards I claim as a mesmer are far greater then with either war or thief. This is coming from a wvw roaming perspective.

Currently, the skill floor is too low. The ceiling is still high, though.

I found the best way is to go full glass and Whirlwind them. You can literally take out 80% of most thieves’ HP with a single well timed whirlwind. Whereas you have immunities to counter their burst.

However, a really well played D/P thief will be impossible to beat as a warrior with double melee. Same goes for when they camp shortbow, it is a hard counter to melee specs.

Try to learn defense against stealth a bit better. Shameless promoting of my channel incoming, but I have a vid in which I have a pretty long fight with a D/P thief (who was actually quite skilled), explaining what I do when I do it.

I run this right now;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhunYpTwyJw/EHwEiP9528e52pTEIDA-TFTEwANVmA4IAM4BAoVJYhTAwSlGRVCtS1GO6Dwt/gjDBQL1ECAgAwO35O35O3ZpAMXoF-w

Shadow Arts>Acro for defense right now, due to the insane amount of condi’s in WvW. You will often use Refuge just to reset a condibomb.

Acro just doesn’t add as much as it used to IMO. After DareDevil hits, I will probably use that over Shadow Arts, but I’m not even sure.

About the stats, ~2800 power, 75% crit chance with Fury (Pack+TotC), 200% crit dmg and I poured the rest into survivability. All with stacks off course.

The problem with PU condi is not that it isn’t supposed to be a thing, it’s that it’s the easiest spec to play in the game, yet quite possibly the hardest spec to fight against.

I really can’t believe people that are coming here trying to make a case about PU condi requiring ‘effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up’. I mean, how deep can you fall into your own dreamworld? You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

As a person who generally can’t play PvE longer then an hour because it’s so dull, I found playing this build to be worse (and easier).

Shala.8352:

You fool – snip

Ok.

Ilien.5302:

Good morning!

Due to University stuff I wasn’t very able to test my Warrior on the BWE3. How will our beloved class work in HoT?

I understand the Berserker is meant for a condition warrior, but is it useful in any build for a power build? I actually have 2 warriors at 80, one meant for Power build and another for Condi build.

The general thoughts on this is that while promising, the traitline offers too little to actually pick it over other traitlines that are arguably mandatory as is. As for condi, that remains so unbalanced (OP) as a whole, that yes, you can take Berserker and still manage (with all the Dire to make up for lack of both defense and offense wherever needed).

Shala.8352:

Sharky.1470:

Cleansing Ire is fine as it is. We have other problems, as warriors, this ain’t one of them. I take Last Stand over Cleansing Ire, as I feel I don’t need it…

i usualy chose last stand over cleansing ire since the cleansing provided from it is unreliable, it’s based on a noob play from the opponent who let you hit him with a burst with chill/blind/cripple/weakness and many others… a decent condi player, when applied those condi will just kite like hell, since this is the purpose of condi damage player: dealing damage while kiting and running like a chicken, waiting for condi doing the damage instead of skills.
To be honest, last thing i will do when getting plenty of condi is trying to desperatly hit with a telegraphed burst the opponent and hoping he wont dodge, a desperate race against the time of condition damage. Cleanser skill/trait should be immediate and on demand, else they are not reliable.

So, speaking about warrior having many others cleanse doesnt make cleansing ire a decent cleanse mechanic.

It actually is decent. It still remains an option, a very viable one with Longbow, and it generates a lot of adrenaline. More then worthy of a GM.

Also, greatsword and to some extent hammer burst are also doable to land. GS burst is a quickcast AoE, and hammer burst can be a follow-up to other CC.

bliss.4305:

Horrible warrior & thief — absolutely braindead and shameful build. As a thief main anyone who plays or supports this build should just uninstall and play Minesweeper.

Can’t wait until condi application reveal is implemented.

PS: I don’t know why people STILL don’t know that staying inside Black Powder (the red rings…. hello??) prevent thieves from stacking stealth. Its been 3 years guys…

/topic

rennlc.7346:

(The build I threw together likely also won’t work very well if Bound remains a blast finisher.)

Yeah, this was my main disappointment with DareDevil. Bound does not work, as you have to leap into the BP for the blast to go off and actually get you stealth. That, and the animation is clunky as hell.

What gamemode are you making this spec for?

DanAlcedo.3281:

Cygnus.6903:

Just wondering, with 2600 condi dmg, you would need like 12-13 stacks of burning for a 12k damage tick. How did you achieve that?

My rotation was:
(we assume we have full adri)
Fan of Fire -> F1 -> weaponswap -> Torch 4+5 ->Sigil or Heal for Max Adri-> Berserker Mode -> Spam Sword F1 and Torch 4 if ready until Berserker Mode is over -> waepon swap ->F1 bow -> Fan of Fire

I dont had much time to test a better rotation but you have to wait a few seconds before you can repeat it (only because of bers mode cd)

I took some more time looking at it and came up with this rotation as well. I never knew longbow burning actually lasts so long (the F1).

From someone who kind of hates condition specs in pvp/wvw, this does look strangely appealing for PvE.

That’s the problem right there, it is impossible to look at the Elite spec in a vacuum, because it does not exist in one.

DanAlcedo.3281:

Hi

Today i got to test my PvE Burn Warrior in the PvE Raid.
And i was surprised!

I got over up to 12k Burn Dmg per second and 3-4k Bleeding.
And this with half cele half rabid gear and not much vun on the enemy.
I think i had around 2600 condition dmg infight.
This is 750 to1000 less with real gear.

BUT there is a problem….
It only works in melee range.

If you have to go range you lose alot of dps.
Mostly because you need Arms/Discipline/Berserker
And the Longbow Traits that gives the very usefull burn on AA is in Tactics……

Could we change this? This would solve this range problem a bit.

I love this new Warrior Burn Build!
Pls put the Longbow Trait in Discipline

Just wondering, with 2600 condi dmg, you would need like 12-13 stacks of burning for a 12k damage tick. How did you achieve that?

Drakortha.6974:

but that is the problem. a lot of conditions hurt faster than i can build adrenaline + hit enemy with a burst skill. meanwhile rangers and other classes have easy “oh kitten” button. i just think a good compromise would be removing the impact enemy requirement, so that i could flee a fight and still clear conditions that are debilitating me.

I’d rather have a good ability to cleanse when I am in a fight, not running from one.

Honestly man, we have a lot of very viable anti-condi tools right now. Brawler’s Recovery, Signet of Stamina, Berserker’s Stance, Dogged March (even better with Hoelbrak/Lemongrass), Shake it Off, Quick Breathing, even Sigil of Cleansing is especially good on warrior. And then we haven’t even touched Cleansing Ire yet…

Now if they just tone down the ridiculous damage from mainly burning..

Yeah, warriors can’t really complain about condition cleansing right now buddy.

We can complain about insanely high condition damage, but that’s another story.

Dragon Ruler X.8512:

nicknamenick.2437:

Sorry for saying this but i find this a pretty bad review

all you say is: fire fire fire mooore fire! ….

Then you try to give feedback on skills but you dont give any decent feedback about the total picture, all skills look somewhat cool on there own but do they bring enough for a warrior in pvp/pve? can they replace a build? what are the cost if warriors do go for berserker traitline? how did you felt going in and out of berserkmode? did you feel much diffrence or did you feel just the same warrior but with some fancy new animations?

Well first I’m going to point out that the fire comments were intended for humor which didn’t seem to fly well with you – to each their own. However, if you took the link at the beginning of the post you would have seen this statement in bold…

“NOTE: I will not be covering complete builds simply because I found it more educational for me to create my own builds as I learned more about the class and its overall synergy options that suited my personal play-style. I will be providing subtle suggestions for where to focus your attention within each specialization and may point a finger here and there to give you ideas for the basics of a complete build.”

My purpose here was not to provide you with deep insight to the class nor to provide you with builds. I was giving you a big hint that if you’re going to play this Elite Spec you’ll likely want to consider condition damage as there is an immense amount of Burning available to the class. Of course there are other options for this Elite Spec, but I tell you what does and doesn’t have good synergy with the remainder of the Core Specs. I just don’t tell you specifically which ones because that is, again, an opportunity for you to learn more about the class as a whole when you go out looking for it. I don’t want to influence people in these reviews – I want them to understand the core concept and functionality that these Elite Specs bring to the table and let them decide what to do with it knowing where the strengths of the Elite Spec lies.

I apologize if this is not your preferred style, but I worked on 9 Elite Specialization Reviews simultaneously for 12 hours straight as the Beta was closing – so I had to pick and choose what information I wanted to share and comment on.

Well, I do value your effort, and the humor flew pretty well with me.

However, I think most warriors feel that Berserker indeed adds nothing to warrior unless you want to kitten yourself into a weaker version of what you were already using. I understand that not all people play to be the strongest or best at whatever it is they are doing, but the elite specialization offers too little incentive to actually pick it up, other then trolling people with broken gun flames.

Let me add that this is not primarily the ‘fault’ of the elite spec itself, but the warrior design as it is right now. We have too many mandatory traits for us to just drop a line and pick up berserker.

Oh, and for fire, there are better classes, way better then Berserker, to pick right now.

What do you think?

Good post, some quality reasoning, although I don’t agree with everything. Mainly the suggested buffs to Distracting Strikes and Vigorous Shouts.

DS seems like a perfectly fine trait to me. Confusion is one of the strongest conditions, and that’s saying something in a world where a single guardian can stacks burns for ~9k damage per second. DS has no cooldown, and warrior has a lot of interrupts available to it. Seems that with Berserker, a warrior condition spec will be able to dish out a ton of damage, so further adding to that already seems premature to me.

Vigorous Shouts was nerfed because of the most awful spec ever used by warriors in PvP; Shoutbow. This spec was so dumb, you could let your slow grandma play it and faceroll people.
I understand that for warriors to play a supporty role, it would need some added healing or buffing capabilities, but IMO not at the cost of reviving this braindead OP spec. Don’t forget that warriors can support the party in other ways (might, banners). Perhaps buffing the defensive banners would be a better idea.

Anyway, all these discussions essentially boil down to the single most important thing that has to happen before warriors can ever hope to be in a spot where they can be balanced and versatile; Fast Hands baseline.

boumz.9851:

it seems a little too early to judge, beta weekends are there for balance and testing purposes anyway, stuff might change till release or with future patches. just give it some time. besides its just another traitline to fit different playstyles, you don’t necessarely have to take it, i understand that new toys always seem shiny and super exciting, but berserker traitline is no must.

Problem is not that berserker is not a must, but other traitlines are. I honestly don’t see any chance to pick up Berserker for anything other then condi. And if that’s the case, they could’ve just made it a pure condition damage line.

No and no. Stealth detection just means he ports away and resets. Stun is even worse, one stunbreak and he’s gone. And good luck stunning something you can’t see, ever.

Completely toxic and, if played well (which is ridiculously easy), there is no counterplay.

That being said, you shouldn’t die to one. Although two is a different story.

Still, this is worse then what thieves were back when we had culling, because apparently, Anet is fine with this.

Your comparison to outrage is completely off. A block+knockdown is infinitely better then building some adrenaline. Like, not even joking here. Outrage will see 0 use in competitive play. Warrior does not have the space on the utility bar for a silly adrenaline gain skill, that even does a poor job at gaining adrenaline.

Might be my bias towards condi builds, but Distracting Strikes seems strong enough as it is.

I think the Adept and Master traits are fine. It’s the GM that sucks for power builds.

Dual Wielding is a joke.

Furious is very condi oriented.

Burst Precision seems decent, but it is lackluster. Most Power builds also need a lot of precision to do decent damage (other then just with burst skills). So the 100% crit is actually not that useful.

They should give Furious an effect similar to might, so that you get both condi and power from it. Also, 10 seems a bit low, 15 seems more like it. If you crit once every second, that would mean a peak of 300 power/condi damage, fine for a GM.

Burst Precision might be better if you also get like a critical damage boost on your burst skills. Something like 10-15% crit damage seems alright.

As for Dual Wielding, I guess they should just buff the attack speed further for it to be worth it. I don’t even think dual wielding is used in PvE right now.

Dirame.8521:

Cygnus.6903:

Right, I guess we are discussing semantics now. Off course it is not needed in every warrior build. In fact, you could decide not to slot any traits at all and you could still play the game.

See what I’m getting at here? You and I have a different perception of the meaning of the word needed, or maybe I am just using the wrong word.

First you say we’re arguing semantics and proceed to not further that point in any meaningful way.

I obviously haven’t fought any good players therefore I haven’t had any need for Fast Hands, right? I disagree. Every thief uses Trickery to get 15 ini but you still don’t see Anet making 15 initiative the standard.

Certain Warrior builds don’t need Fast Hands.

I’m personally done with this conversation now.

Semantics is the study of meaning, and we have a different perception of the meaning of the word ‘needed’. That was what I was talking about, right?

The fact that you say all thieves use Trickery for 15 initiative shows not only a lack of understanding of the thief class in particular, but it also leads me to believe your general understanding of the game is lacking. Thieves take Trickery for Sleight of Hand, usually in combination with Bountiful Theft. Not for 3 extra intitiative, jeez.
And FYI, before we could trait 3 full lines, a lot of Thieves did not take Trickery in WvW roaming. Sure as hell they did not slot 3 points into Trickery for 3 extra initiative, lol. I’ve played thief almost as much as warrior since launch, so I know a bit about this.

Saying you obviously haven’t fought any good players blabla is just exaggerating to make a point, which is not a good way to discuss a point. I also never said you only fought noobs.

You don’t provide any new argument as to why Fast Hands isn’t needed for warriors, so I already gathered that you don’t want to discuss any further anyway. Kinda weak, but w/e.

Dirame.8521:

snip

Right, I guess we are discussing semantics now. Off course it is not needed in every warrior build. In fact, you could decide not to slot any traits at all and you could still play the game.

See what I’m getting at here? You and I have a different perception of the meaning of the word needed, or maybe I am just using the wrong word.

Because yes, if you want to turn decent people into mush, then you will need FH. I made that point because when fighting noobs, you can also run the traitless build I mentioned earlier.

Back on topic, Berserker added decent condi options for warrior. But core issues that warrior has are not beign adressed, Fast Hands baseline is just one of them.

The best part of these vids is that he always gets so low that I’m sure he won’t survive, then one shots somebody with whirlwind or evis.

Dirame.8521:

Cygnus.6903:

You say my thought is misplaced, yet provide 0 argument to that statement.

The link I posted shows me playing without fast hands and still turning people into mush.

The link in my description has me doing the same, says nothing about the skill level of my opponent or that of my own.

Dirame.8521:

Cygnus.6903:

Cleansing Ire isn’t needed though. You can slot Last Stand and be fine with cleanse on swap, Signet of Stamina and Zerker Stance. Hell, if you take Arms, adrenaline build up won’t be a problem either.

Signet of Stamina? Which popular build ever used that? And Brawler’s Recovery? When did that ever save anyone from a condi burst? Zerker Stance on the other hand is in almost every build regardless of whether you take Discipline or not.

Your argument should probably be Warrior should have a special mechanic that allows him to swap weapons faster because he is a Weapons Master and it probably fits aesthetically. Good good, great great. Can’t argue with that but the current stance of “Warriors need it to be viable!!” is just so wrong it’s like a broken vase that someone glued together and tried to sell as an antique.

Dodging and using Zerk Stance at the opportune moment saves you from a condi burst. Is Cleansing Ire really so reliable for you that you can cleanse that condi burst with it every time? At this point I refer back to my earlier statement about opponent’s skill level.

My argument is that Fast Hands provides such an incredibly strong effect for warrior, that running it without it is so much weaker that it becomes unviable. Maybe in the most niche and detailed team setting, one could forgo it, but most of us don’t play MLG Team Wars 2.

Rotations, Sigil effects, hell, even the ability to be able to swap to your other set and use that one skill just in time… Fast Hands is the best trait in the game.

How I miss Leg Specialist…

+1

Dirame.8521:

Cygnus.6903:

The funny thing about his vid is that when he starts playing berserker on his mace/longbow condi spec, every person he fights that has half a clue destroys him.

This illustrates the complete lack of warrior survivability without double Endure Pain.

Not having Fast Hands baseline still destroys warrior versatility.

Your thought that Fast Hands is needed in every build is misplaced. When it comes to Berserker, it is far from needed.

I actually tried to put fast hands into one of my builds but I just felt like the build lacked something crucial, so I went back to whatever it was I was using. And it’s the only build I’ve considered and am still considering whether fast hands is useful in it.

The only trait line that I used in every build was Defense because Cleansing Ire and Rousing Resilience are too good to pass up when it comes to Berserker or even Warrior in general and I would rather consider making Cleansing Ire baseline before Fast hands, just because of that fact.

You can check out some of my gameplay below and a few builds I tested in the description of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1FV-QEzxbE

You say my thought is misplaced, yet provide 0 argument to that statement. Every viable build outside of PvE since launch has had Fast Hands in it. Like somebody adequatly put it earlier, even when we had 14 traitpoints, people slotted 3 in Discipline for Fast Hands.

Cleansing Ire isn’t needed though. You can slot Last Stand and be fine with cleanse on swap, Signet of Stamina and Zerker Stance. Hell, if you take Arms, adrenaline build up won’t be a problem either.

The funny thing about his vid is that when he starts playing berserker on his mace/longbow condi spec, every person he fights that has half a clue destroys him.

This illustrates the complete lack of warrior survivability without double Endure Pain.

Not having Fast Hands baseline still destroys warrior versatility.