the problem with thieves is that their entire mechanic is based on stealth (outside of s/d which got destroyed by last pacth) however stealth works only on noob players, hence why thieves look so weak vs any half decent players playing other classes
majority of the players however are pve’ers (aka noobs to pvp) or too lazy to learn, so the QQ about stealth will continue, thieves will keep getting nerfed, while good players will wash the floor with thieves in pvp heh
- that aoe covers entire point… if i walk out of it my team loses points
Please don’t believe the forums when they claim that pvp is about standing on points. Get out of the aoe, stay alive, and kill people. That is way more important than standing on a point. Sure, if you’re playing a bunker and it could be useful to your team for you to stay on the point and eat damage for a few seconds, go for it. Your team will lose control of the point for a lot longer after you die than if you had just gotten out of the aoe and won the fight, so…
- you can remove torment from pin down, not pin down itself, the conditions keep repplying… shs that removes conditions is on 45 sec for example, what’s your point?
Pin down applies immob and six stacks of bleeding, and doesn’t reapply anything over time.
my bad, mixed it with impale…
as for going out of point, the issue is, yes i can do it but issue is to get warrior down requires time, sometimes too much time
i spent entire match in soloq fighting that one engi at cannon so he couldn’t use it… entire match both of us tried to knock each other off edge/through glass…. eventually engi ended on the flor but match was almost over
well, the fire field is stationary. move out of the field to avoid burning.
pin down?
carry condition removers.
or spam dodge.
the recharge time is 25 or 20 seconds anyway.
the long bow is fine, working nicely as intended.
plus, the overall physical damage for the combustion shot is already reduced by 15%
- that aoe covers entire point… if i walk out of it my team loses points
- you can remove torment from pin down, not pin down itself, the conditions keep repplying… shs that removes conditions is on 45 sec for example, what’s your point?
- of course longbow is nice, for warriors who are using it…not so nice on receiving side
Well you can compare pin down with the park pact of the necro mainhand dagger. Yeah i know, one shouldnt compare only skills but the professions as whole, but dark pact does less damage (more direct damage but no condition damage) has the same immo duration the same cooldown, lower range and larger cast time. And on top dark pact it on a mainly melee weapon.
So yeah pin down needs a nerf…
Edit: Combustive shot is strong but i dont think it needs to be nerfed
but you are comparing a skill 3 versus a skill 5 oooo.
i thought skill 5 are supposed to be more powerful than skill 3 ?
Well they also have normally a higher cooldown/casttime, which isnt the case with pin down
pin down has 25 or 20 seconds recharge time which is the standard recharge time for skills that immobilizes.
consider buffing necro dagger skill 3 instead of trying to further nerf long bow skill 5 pin down.
fear me was 60 seconds after i made that post.
not sure if they already intended to change fear me to 60 seconds or if my post had made any difference but it sure felt very good to me.
with lung capacity, fear me is 48 seconds recharge time now.
while i would like if they buffed dark pact, i think its in a better place balance wise then pin down. Immobilize is in my opinion one of the best conditions if not the best, so it should be hard to hit.
increasing the activation time a bit (0.50 to 1.00 seconds up from 0.25 seconds) and adding unique obvious animation would be good. nothing more than that.
Please name other classes with long telegraphed skills likw war.Warrior alone has more easy to dodge highly telegraphed, low range obvious animation skills than all the other classes combined together.Longbow and warrior heals/ sudtain needs a huge buff, especially power on combustive shot and speed increase on aa/arcing arrow.Considering most complainers only use rabid tanky gear and play easymode don’t have the right to complain and really need to l2p if they get killed by the easiest most avoidable class in the game (by far).I only need 3 blocks and two evades to win a fight against war at 100% health.
heals are usually well telegraphed
those telegraphed warrior skills also hit hard like truck and have long lasting CCs
longbow and warrior heal needs a buff? nice joke
i don’t use rabid gera and i find warriors kittened atm due to little trade off for max effectivness
what if my class doesn’t have block? besides you actually have to outdps warrior HS
i had warrior in our guild that played condi build with HS, you can burst him all you want, his health wouldn’t even budge
fractal lv 49, need guard, 50+ AR plz
guard joins
doing mossman
guard gets one shot and dies w/o downed state
we rez him
same crap again
we: guard, what’s your AR?
he links orrian shoulders
me: guard, are you new?
he: i am new to this, but i got this (links orrian shoulders)
i run fractals mostly, overall though i have biggest issues with warriors, they die a lot (ironically), most of them can’t dodge for kitten, if i try to stealth rez them (i play thief) they keep attacking boss unstealthing themself and wasting stealth, they run out refuge too early, they attack enemies when we try to skip mobs, they don’t stack when we ask them to… etc -_-
Lyssa gives terrible bonuses compared to other rune sets outside of the 6th bonus… the only reason people run it is absurd amount of conditions and CCs flying around atm… maybe devs should the cause and not the way to deal with issue
i got 2 skins after patch…. the drop rate is ridicilous low compared to prepatch
Well, they’re dropping like flies in 10-19 (see several Fractured! Threads). Which leads me to believe something screwy is going on. Before not a single person said they ever got a skin in that level. Now they say it was always super rare, and the patch has made more and more people get them in that level range.
Final rest, all over again, I think.
maybe because more ppl run 10-19 compared to 41-49?
Okay… maybe, but tahts going a whole different direction, this has 0 to do with area of denial of points, or the so called aoe spam, this is a 1v1 situation, wich honestly if your good a thief still has a very good chance of winning,… this scenario is something completely different in a teamfight what the topic as about no?
the topic is about aoe and condi spam and small points…
i also as thief have hard times dealing with it since i either can try to win fight but lose point or lose die and lose point.. either way points lost
So basicly your saying that because you cannot win versus someone who uses area of denial its completely broken? gg, besides wth are you doing trying to hold a point as a thief, that aint your job.
yes, i realize i shouldn’t be defending point but you don’t have choice in soloq anyway… besides, what is my job a thief? teach me how to pvp… no matter what point i went to it was flooded with aoe… ironically the only way i can kill engi atm is spamming shortbow aoe
is it not general problem with pvp? go do some spvp or tpvp…. it is all mindless aoe spam
either points need to be bigger like graveyard or aoe spam needs to be punished/not being as rewarding
same goes for conditions, you shouldn’t be able to build really tanky and for dmg at the same time
Okay… maybe, but tahts going a whole different direction, this has 0 to do with area of denial of points, or the so called aoe spam, this is a 1v1 situation, wich honestly if your good a thief still has a very good chance of winning,… this scenario is something completely different in a teamfight what the topic as about no?
the topic is about aoe and condi spam and small points…
i also as thief have hard times dealing with it since i either can try to win fight but lose point or lose die and lose point.. either way points lost
First off i main necro, just so you know where i come from (however i dont play Condi spam bs, i play power/non dhumbfire)
That being said, exept if the necro has well’s (wich i use) his aoe… is really not as dangerous as you state.. staff aoe’kitten for absolutely nothing if condispecced/got nerfed recently, Scepter/dagger aoe’s are very much telegraphed and can be avoided without any problems.
Now if he is a condispammer that uses wells… well his damage will be more significant indeed, but that also means he has no supportskills=/=easykill.
Now grenade Engi’s yeah… they can flatten an entire area.
So my question is, cause i really wonder this when i read about the aoe’s… what are the aoe’s taht you are so scared off? (necromancer based) and if you say marks,.. well dont trigger them, let the warrior trigger them.
hard not to trigger marks when they cover entire point… besides you assume i have warrior on team, what if i don’t? it doesn’t matter anyway as nearbly allies get affected anyway
Okay true enough that it is hard not to trigger them if they cover small points, and sure you might not have a heavy with you to trigger them/ that being said, what is it that your so afraid of then?
The palrty 3 bleeds?/chillbains? putrid is the only one that actually does any decent damage and no decent necro should use it just like that considering its a condicleanse… i mean i get it it’s annoying that he can fill a point with marks.. but people are greatly overestimating the damage marks do.
1 fear mark + scepter spam + death shroud (if i am still somehow alive) GG
First off i main necro, just so you know where i come from (however i dont play Condi spam bs, i play power/non dhumbfire)
That being said, exept if the necro has well’s (wich i use) his aoe… is really not as dangerous as you state.. staff aoe’kitten for absolutely nothing if condispecced/got nerfed recently, Scepter/dagger aoe’s are very much telegraphed and can be avoided without any problems.
Now if he is a condispammer that uses wells… well his damage will be more significant indeed, but that also means he has no supportskills=/=easykill.
Now grenade Engi’s yeah… they can flatten an entire area.
So my question is, cause i really wonder this when i read about the aoe’s… what are the aoe’s taht you are so scared off? (necromancer based) and if you say marks,.. well dont trigger them, let the warrior trigger them.
hard not to trigger marks when they cover entire point… besides you assume i have warrior on team, what if i don’t? it doesn’t matter anyway as nearbly allies get affected anyway
AoE honestly is fine it’s punishment for grouping up.
this game just needs more counterplay with skills
i.e travel time on necro skills. They have only kittenty animations thus low counterplay making them frustrating to fight, unless you’re a thief i guess. Thiefs however, have too much everything- as well as low counterplay.
what?
my point is: as necro or engi i can safely spam aoe and cover entire point (outside of graveyard) so as thief i have 2 choices: stay in aoe and hold point fo sec and die or run out of aoe and lose point and probably die to condi anyway
… what is answer to it? I can’t do crap on my thief to even remotely help my team vs such crap.
If i go in, i die to aoe. If i don’t go in, my team is doing 4v5. Try to hold point? Nope. Try to capture point? Nope. Just aoe/condi spam on every point.
inb4 go backstab them, jk blinded, jk blocks, jk immob/daze for ages
as you can guess i faced 3 necros/2 nade spam engis team
Try facing 2 minion necros.You get instashot and you wouldn’t even get a hit on either necros or their pets.
i actually don’t have much of problem vs minimancers (outside of pet blocking)…. i have issues more with condi/aoe spamming necros
… what is answer to it? I can’t do crap on my thief to even remotely help my team vs such crap.
If i go in, i die to aoe. If i don’t go in, my team is doing 4v5. Try to hold point? Nope. Try to capture point? Nope. Just aoe/condi spam on every point.
inb4 go backstab them, jk blinded, jk blocks, jk immob/daze for ages
as you can guess i faced 3 necros/2 nade spam engis team
i have 6 ascended weapons + legendary on my thief, i could have had 3-4 ascended armor pieces (if i didn’t sell mats for gold) right now, most of that was made doing WvW
Six ascended weapons = 3,000 dragonite. Keep Lords give 3 to 5 each. The SM lord drops more, but you can only take that so often. You’ve knocked off nearly 1,000 keeps?
I’m leaving the legendary and the armor out of the equation.
i did join wboss train after server reset for hour or so, hence why i said most of it was from wvw; besides you can get only so much dragonite per day from pve, 2 weapons were drops doh
run karma train, you will get plenty of mats
my point still stands, i don’t think that wvw rewards are that bad; you still have relative good chance for rare drops like precursor/ascended not to mention all the bags/t5/t6 mats, items you can salvage etc.; idk how OP or you do wvw, i know for fact my bags are always full when i run with the guild or karma train
be happy it is not as bad as in pvp, where you didn’t get anything nor could make any money from it
i have 6 ascended weapons + legendary on my thief, i could have had 3-4 ascended armor pieces (if i didn’t sell mats for gold) right now, most of that was made doing WvW
you know what was truly poorly rewarded? pvp… i am glad they are at least working on rewards there now
last refuge fix
head shot ini reduction :<
anything that would help us vs endless aoe condi spam -_-
dagger off hand more reliable…. or rewarding at least
And S/D…to be honest….I’m not noticing the changes.
If you didn’t notice changes to IR then you haven’t played s/d yet. Just try messing around with the npc warrior in the mists… that kittener will chain stun you 4 times in a row. You don’t notice a difference? Not a good troll dude….
zomg you mean s/d now actually has to dodge stuns like every other class in the game? WHAT?!!
every other class has either/or protection, blocks, invul etc.
Even if the entire thief population banishes, I doubt anet will do anything about it. Probably heave a sigh of relief, even….
I think everyone should know by now the balance team doesn’t know anything about the thief profession. They repeatedly showed erroneous knowledge about stuff, including stomping by sword ‘2’, mistaking initiative “improvement” from stealth, and other misc information.
They refused to discuss with us any further when we pointed out their changes were terrible. Not a single dev response, typical.
i don’t think they are not interested in the class, more like they are trying to promote venoms so hard that other builds have to suffer for it
despite that i am still rather puzzled by their choices
but then again, yesterday i ended up with dev on same team in yoloq and he yelled at us that we really better to defend points (implying we didn’t) despite the fact that we were 4v5ing and our lord was being attacked…-_-
You guys should stop reading right there.Even if any of the other arguments are not helping the aOP’s case much imho.
Guard lowest hp, ele lowest hp warrior highest hp.Warrior op since launch ?Lost count how many threds tried to justify something with such an irrelevant fact.As i already statwd before warriors would gladly trade 5000 of their hp and 180 toughness for clones, stealth, protection, teleports, blind,waterfields or passive ai spam.
extra HP and toughness is not main reason why wars are so stupid… giving wars stealth, clones etc, on top of the package that they already have would just put them on absolute god status
say hello to cloak and dagger… 0.5 sec cast time, if you don’t land it, GG
easily gets countered by block, blind, invul and such
is not even CC for that matter heh
screenshots or didn’t happen
- thieves don’t have any protection, no blocks, invul etc.
- thieves sustain dmg is kind of lol
- thieves team utility starts and ends at refuge
- real backstab (crit) hits for 5k in average (on light armor) and costs 6-8 initiative (depending on build) which is 6-8 sec CD, that if it actually lands and doesn’t get blinded, dodged, hit front, gets pet blocked etc.
pew pew
