Guild Wars 2

Thief changes:

- why would you nerf stun break from squishy class that has no access to stability outside of very long CD elite that is not even that good in pvp?
- thief guild is silly elite that is only good for HJ… pvp is already plagued by AI, why would you reduce CD on it?
- why would you nerf quick recovery? was initiative gain not nerfed enough already?
- hard to catch should just break CC but not port thief somewhere where they don’t have any controll over… that was always major issue with that trait…
- i understand lyssa is makes warriors too good, but it was only reliable stability thieves had…why nerf it?

overall all i see is more nerfs to most thieves builds except for pistol main hand gimmicky HJ build; the class is already weakness for the team in many cases, why nerf it more? did you even play a thief in tpvp?

invul should count as stealth aka not being able to capture point/hold orb… just to be “fair”

rolled a warrior, played for a while…holy mother…. they are actually more faceroll than i imagined :/ too forgiving imo

Wethospu.6437:

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Thief: Lots of evades and ability to regenerate endurance through dagger auto + signet, but defensive utility is mostly locked out of DPS trait lines. No stability and low HP pool means mistakes and bad dodges are punished extremely harshly. You will instantly die from attacks that many other classes can scrape by surviving. Verdict: 4/5
—

I’m curious how a bad dodge gets punished harshly when you can just dodge again? Also Thief has Infiltrator’s Strike which allows by-passing most of the attacks very easily.

Anyways I agree with Dub. Can you really say some class has a truly hard time?

because it costs resources and despite the common missinformation, thieves do not have infinite dodges

ahuba.6430:

Zelulose.8695:

Idk I just wanted to show how the low trait point cost allows many build possibilities. XD

lol this doesn’t allow for anything except being useless.

^^this

stealth is actually disadvantage in capture point games

traps? what are those…. oh yeah….. those things i never use….

i honestly think the issue with traps is their effectivness and trade off

thief survivability is very low, some spells are pretty much mandatory (refuge, shs etc.) and don’t leave much room for anything else

thieves do lack team utility and lack survival, so why not combine those in traps? then we wouldn’t have to sacrifice all our survival tools for some crappy immob on long CD…. i think engis comes in mind with their aoe utility

How is BS already having CD due to requirement and debuff is not justification for not adding another CD, please explain.

People been countering your points, you simply chose to ignore it or twist it the way you like it. Funny how you say it is waste of time not trying to counter main point yet you chose to not only commendt on suggestion that your post might have not been serious but also decided to personally attack the poster and at the same time complaining that the poster used your personal features as argument. You are contradicting yourself too much, imo.

As far as twisting the post, it doesn’t matter how you call it you still altered the meaning of the post to your liking under excuse of staying “on track with regards to main points”, my point stands: it can’t be considered as an argument if you alter the meaning of the post of the opposite side.

Also, i find it interesting that you keep insisting on “helping me” when all you did is calling my posts “not relevant” just because you don’t agree with them as well as criticizing my way of forming the posts. None of those really help me in any way and according to your defintion are actually “waste of time”.

I personally don’t find game forums the place where i should be too picky about proper gramma. As long as the post is readable and within the forums rules, i think it is acceptable. The message is more important than the form, imo. For example: All is Vain https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/gf-left-me-coz-of-ladderboard/page/5#post3423997 while being half a joke probably and wtitten in quite “not serious” form as you would express, it does carry the message that many can relate to – class imbalance and frustration of soloQ. It doesn’t matter if you don’t take the post serious because of the form it is posted in, the issue is still there. As far as serious in general goes, this are game forums, games are played for fun, serious business happens at the work and real life :P

I don’t agree that analyzing the the spells alone will give you the idea of how balance looks like. That mistake been done many times by devs (not talking about Anet, hello mods) in the past of many games because they were too attached to data they had and lost the feel of the game which led to big frustration from players side and eventually people started to leave game.

Many things look good on paper but don’t work so well in reality. You forget human factor, you forget enviroment, you forget skill lag due to latency, you forget the joy factor as well. Did you ever wonder why there is no MMORPG game that has only 1 class with 1 spell on flat field w/o any los? That would be the most balanced game but it doesn’t exist… why? Dodge is amazing mechanics yet classes also have blocks, invulnerability, walls etc. why? Why is there CC in game, why do conditions exist, why there is cast time? Did you ever ask yourself that?

As far as dhumfire goes, i do think extra pet is still an issue even if it disappears after cast besides it still doesn’t adress the problem. I don’t think that you understand the issue with dhumfire. The reason is not even trait itself, but the whole tree and how much you can stack with just scepter AA to round it up with nice feast of corruption. Personally i would replace dhumfire with something different but not another codition proc.

You kind of did buff HS in a way though, you realize that right? The problem is stacking and passive gameplay, your suggestion doesn’t adress neither of those problems.

same with death blossom, head shot and other spells that have some kind of dynamic animations… being rooted during that animation is 100% death, posted on bug forums many times, never adressed nor any red posts on it

Swagg.9236:

Cynz.9437:

you did suggest CD on few thief spells, look at your initial post… besides you don’t own this forums so you don’t have the right to decide which post is relevant and which is not, no need to be rude just because someone doesn’t agree with you

You aren’t addressing any of my points regarding the reasoning behind my suggestions. You’re just crying that that I don’t own GW2 forums and therefore don’t have any ground on which to stand to make balance suggestions. That’s an Ad Hominem argument and therefore is irrelevant to discussion.

Cynz.9437:

funny how you say Ad Hominem, yet you attack me personally by making fun of my way of typing messages on this forums…hypocrisy?

I told you to leave and come back with a better argument. You did not. I also told you to fix your sentence structure so people might take you more seriously. You also failed there. I’m just trying to help you out here, man.

I actually did explain why spells like backstab do not need CD yet you chose to ignore it. Nowhere in my post i “cried” about you not being owner of the GW2 forums nor that it could be used as argument ground, i just pointed that you do not possses the right to tell other posters on this forums if their feedback is relevant or not. Twisting my post can’t be really used as argument.

You tell me “to leave and come back” when i have “better” argument, well aren’t you arrogant? I was saying that i do not believe, weither you like it or not, that your post is serious simply because some suggestions are quite ridicilous not to mention the account name, that is not an argument, that is an opinion and i am free to express it here.

it doesn’t matter how i form my posts, the idea doesn’t change :P

As for topic: i don’t play every class in this game and i am not arrogant enough to assume that i know everything about those classes w/o playing them and make suggestions for radical changes for those classes hence why i also won’t leave feedback on changes for classes i don’t play. If you want some credibility, you should have spent months playing each classes in competitive pvp before making such suggestions. However i believe that after playing them for so long you wouldn’t make such suggestions on first place.

Dhumfire change for example: major complain right now is amount of pets running around. Why would you suggest to add another pet? It hardly adresses this issue but makes it worse.

Or warrior suggestions: major complain is amount of warrior healing. The reason why warrior healing is so stupid atm is HS + adrenal health + banner running together. The change you suggest is not adressing the issue at all. HS by itself isn’t bad, warrior being able to stack many things is bad.

@Geff: ironically wow arena is even more imbalanced than gw2 pvp and been dying out for a while now simply because wow devs care only about pve and balance pvp around pve, so wow arena had stupid things like everyone running with 350k HP and warriors being able to do 420k dmg with 1 attack since blizzard wanted to buff warrior dmg in raids (pve).

Dee Jay.2460:

…It’s also obvious that Conquest favors classes and builds with high survivability and lots of AoE/cleave damage.

been saying it many and many times… really wish they would adress it

for 40+ you need 50-55 AR

playing wrong class hehe

jokes aside: what is your build?

Harbinger.8637:

Cynz.9437:

outside of cluster spam on screen and pet blocking BS i don’t mind petting zoo so much actually

i hate engis though, non stop aoe spam on point with full row of conditions with dazes and tankiness and i am not only one, people i played with who run different classes are sick and tired of condi/aoe spam on points as well

I also dislike fighting engies. However I blame this more on the game mode then the class. You are forced to fight on small points, that favors this kind of AoE spam. If there were other game modes I don’t think they would be a huge problem.

true, pvp could indeed use more game modes

outside of cluster spam on screen and pet blocking BS i don’t mind petting zoo so much actually

i hate engis though, non stop aoe spam on point with full row of conditions with dazes and tankiness and i am not only one, people i played with who run different classes are sick and tired of condi/aoe spam on points as well

just add option to view asura same size as humans…

ppl who like asura, will still see them as small “cuties”
ppl who want to be able to see animation, will be able to do so by activation the option

asura’s unreadable animations as well as vague hitbox is indeed a problem, but changing range depending on race is bad solution imo

dat Barret ele with epic female voice hahaha

i played on few servers (on YB atm) and been on their TS and i think SoR TS is only one that is getting DDOSd non stop when they are facing certain server <_< and it really doesn’t take much effort to guess who does it

i really hated when people were DDOSing each other in wow during RBG matches to force wins like that, it is really sad that certain individuals resort to such actions in this game as well :/

from what i understand SoR isn’t winning every match up either, are those actions really needed?

glaphen.5230:

Cynz.9437:

glaphen.5230:

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

pretty easy actually

i assume you complain about extended stealth duration due to leaping over BP… it is really easy to counter by sitting next to the field because thief will have to use HS to get stealth, however if he uses it again it will automatically attack you and give him revealed debuff

counting isn’t hard either BP -> HS -> backstab , 1 2 3… if thief is a bit far away you obviously have to count travel time

funny thing you don’t even need to dodge actually, you can just spin around and reduce dmg by 100% by doing so

Hah a Thief with automatic targeting on is impossibly bad or anyone for that matter. If you are any close to the field he can hit you with the first Heartseeker and it doesn’t break stealth too. Half of your body is the front and the other half the back. Even if you spin randomly its a coin toss with the factoring of the Thief skill too.

it still works pretty well, outside of all utilities engi already has

just because i play thief myself doesn’t mean i don’t face them… and i rarely get hit by backstab unless i stand still… movement does really help if thief is already in stealth and you don’t have any aoe CCs or hard aoe dmg

i am still rather puzzled how he got hit for 12k though, i run mostly zerker on my thief i was never backstabbed for so high

glaphen.5230:

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

What gives? What gives is you are being hit for 12k, don’t. Learn to counter them, yes, thieves can be powerful, but more often than not, they are just annoying. They are a light class that is meant to deal big damage, sadly, they got some nerfs they did not need, as I did not find their dmg to be a problem, only annoying ability to reset fights.

I see fights all the time, and I love watching, I will see someone fighting a thief, and sure enough, almost never dodging the right attacks if dodging at all. And within a few seconds, they are down, often times not even fighting long enough for a weapon swap. Then I wait, and sure enough aegis pops, dodge, backup/strafe, he comes out of stealth, JI to them, one combo set and hes at less than half heath, he then dodges/ports/SR, never to be seen again, as I stand there with 90%+ HP. The only time I ever have problems with them is when I am in a fight with others and a thief is there picking people off, waiting for someone to get under 50%, but that’s life.

I really can’t help but agree with the other poster, L2P, watch their tactics, and timing, better yet, make a thief and you will see all the massive holes they have to be attacked as well as their timing. Just knowing basic timing of stealth gives you a huge advantage in dodging a good 80% of their burst.

Allot of classes can kill someone with 3-4 skills, it is the fact you are face tanking their burst, and if you can’t mitigate that burst, then you deserve to die. Because you don’t know how to counter a class/play style does not mean it is unbalanced. I would be willing to bet if you posted screen of the combat log it would show just that.

Someone wanna tell me the right time to dodge against a D/P Thief? You know 90% of WvW roaming?

pretty easy actually

i assume you complain about extended stealth duration due to leaping over BP… it is really easy to counter by sitting next to the field because thief will have to use HS to get stealth, however if he uses it again it will automatically attack you and give him revealed debuff

counting isn’t hard either BP → HS → backstab , 1 2 3… if thief is a bit far away you obviously have to count travel time

funny thing you don’t even need to dodge actually, you can just spin around and reduce dmg by 100% by doing so

spam aoe/condi and dazes, they will die before they can do anything

engi is only class that can easily and reliably kill any thief w/o problems; if you can’t, then it is certanly l2p issue

i personally avoid engis as much as possible since in 90% of the time i will lose the fight unless engi is complete noob
don’t belive me? check pvp forums

Junkpile.7439:

How can thief die conditions? They just stealth and come back full hp and without any conditions.

if they run SA and sit in stealth sure, they can remove condis but if they run SA they can’t backstab for 12k nor they do any dmg while sitting in stealth…. besides you won’t see thief have full HP after stealth simply because HiS heals for 30%-40% of HP, that is nowhere 100%

@ KarlaGrey: ironically thieves are actually in fact less spammy for simple fact that they are resource and not CD based, if i play necro and used my skills, i just switch weapons and can spam my skills again, if i switch weapon on thief i am still sitting at 0 ini and have to wait… i don’t think BS needs CD as it already requires stealth which IS already limited by CD (refuge, HiS, 6 ini for CnD etc.) and revealed debuff (4 sec in pvp)

i don’t think that CD + resource is bad idea, many games (wow for example) follow that system, but forcing only one class into it is just complete bias

overall, i understand he wants major changes so just viewing one class is probably wrong, but outside of few visuals i don’t think those changes would really balance game and i honestly doubt OP has a lot of experience playing every single class in this game

@OP: you did suggest CD on few thief spells, look at your initial post… besides you don’t own this forums so you don’t have the right to decide which post is relevant and which is not, no need to be rude just because someone doesn’t agree with you

funny how you say Ad Hominem, yet you attack me personally by making fun of my way of typing messages on this forums…hypocrisy?

thaumnova: didn’t run that one much but it is pretty easy, can play about anything
- you can get through radiation room by using sb 5 -> shadow step and then using run skill you get by being in that room, usually is enough to get across them room hehe

molten furnance: pretty straight foward
- after clearing 4 rooms you can use refuge to stealth to the back side of the big room and pull mobs in small groups instead of fighting them all

Mai Trin: during cannon phase you can stealth yourself and sit in the corner, cannons will ignore you for most part; wouldn’t suggest to melee her as she hits kitten hard, i use p/p and stay close to her but just bit outside of her melee ranger

Molten boss: this is not best solution but i tend to run smoke bomb and refuge a lot on this fight, as ppl die a lot here and stealth is only way to rez them w/o getting agro from boss and eating aoe; once again SA condi removal is good for this one

jade maw is same on any lv, so nothing special here really

overall maps themself aren’t so bad, instabilities on other hand can be major pita and might force you to go signet of malice or switch weapon set or even build (cough lv 44)

this are my 2 very long cents lol, i might be all wrong though but this is how i run it :P

lv 50 fractal here, running 49 every day

tbh you can run fractals with about any build, exprience counts more than optimal gear imo; you can have best gear ever but at high lv everything one shots you so if you suck at dodging and don’t know how to do fights properly no gear and build in the world will help you

as for thieves not being desirable, i wouldn’t say so…you really want one thief in high lv run to skip as much as possible + stealth rezzes are really good since ppl get one shot a lot

few things i would recommend though:
- multiple weapon sets to be able to adapt to different fights
- SA tree is pretty usefull imo due to condition removal and longer stealth (that helps on some maps like dredge)

personally i run pretty much same build as i run in wvw: 10/30/20/10 zerker + some pvt, it is not optimal but it has diversity i need; for weapons i run d/d, p/p, sb, d/p depending on fight

as for tipps here are few, althrough you probably know most of them:

underwater:
- pretty straight foward, would use harpoon gun mostly tbh

cliffside:
- for first boss p/p, as his melee is deadly; SA condi removal helps but if you have enough AR isn’t much of an issue tbh
- untill last boss i run d/p for aoe blinds, it works well on chanters as long as party stacks on you, can some smoke screen for extra safety
- on last boss make sure to get refuge: when boss drops hammer, wait till you or whoever holds hammer gets 4th skill, make sure your party stacks on that preson and use refuge – that way your party will be invisible during stun phase and won’t be attacked by chanters

snowblinded:
- you can run smoke screen sb/smoke bomb/refuge/ d/d to solo fire part if you really wanna be a hero heh
- ice elemental: make sure to get smoke screen for elemntals as they can easily wipe group
- last boss i prefer to use p/p as his aura is rather annoying to deal with

swamp:
- p/d to kill spiders if i end up fighting any before grabbing orb
- refuge/signet of shadows and shs help a lot to carry orb, you can stand far away from orb, port to it with shs and return back while carrying it so it saves time
- for Mossman i use p/p/sb, vs bloom d/d
- SA condi removal helps a lot if you got stuck

harpie:
- smoke screen/refuge for stealth
- smoke screen + black powder+ daggerstorm to stop harbie attacks
- p/p for robot boss in poison room so you can run back to battery while keeping dps
- thief guild + ambush trap help a lot vs poison projectiles as they body block them, so you can just stand behind your pets and let them eat dmg for you
- for last boss get smoke screen, p/p makes fight easier imo

ascalon:
- smoke screen and aoe, pretty straight foward map so not much to add there
- last boss i usually dps with d/d untill he starts to yell “i will never surrender” or something like that, then switch to ranged

dredge: this map makes thieves most usefull actually lol
- thief with SA + smoke bomb and refuge can stay stealthed almost for entire eduration of activating the button in first room
- if you got bomb path, you can solo it as thief by doing following: make sure your group stays out of agro, stealth yourself (smoke bomb, smoke bomb + sb, refuge, w/e fancies you), grab bomb, get in range of shadow step and use to to port to door, place bomb, use shadow step + sb inf. arrow to get away from dredge to drop agro; SA tree with stealth spells reduction and extra second stealth helps a lot there
- if you got cannon door: clear dredge, have your party grab cannons and use them, smoke bomb + refuge them so they don’t get killed by dredge -> run to back to fight boss, make sure to have smoke screen for snipers
- on last boss i usually run lava switch since you can get fast to switches and rez ppl on the way by using sb 5, shs, shadow signet

fire map: (personally hate that one the most)
- sb aoe/smoke screen for first trash
- immobs from p/p + scrop wire to prevent NPCs from reaching sacrifices
- smoke screen p/p for shaman till he jumps down
- last boss: p/p, signet of agility, SA condi removal, HiS, refuge, smoke screen, dagger storm; watch the boss, try to stay away from the group as by stepping side to side you can avoid his arrow w/o needing to dodge; during shield phase get to boss and use daggerstor to reflect wurm attacks, use smoke bomb after and spam sb aoe to kill them quickly; use refuge to get ppl up; signet of agility and stealth to drop fire condi

(too long post)

half done here

you don’t need to lv to 80 tbh, just make a thief and go to pvp

as for war build, i see most ppl run either hambow or condi sword/longbow, you might wanna try that if you wanna join the bandwagon

as far as combat log, it might have been in wrong order due to lag

so much wrong, in so many ways…i don’t even know where to start….

from the pov of the class i play the most: ini + CD is sooo bad, go to other class forums and ask them if they would like to have mana bars/costs + CDs on spells… trust me, they will send you to hell

but then again we are probably biting a cake here, looking at OP name heh

tl/dr: 1) you couldn’t have died as war from that dmg alone
2) this attack chain still can’t be executed in 1 sec simply due to revealed debuff

weither it is bad or not to have class that can be one shot so they can also do high dmg in short period of time is different story, if you try to discuss it you might as well open a can full of worms

it seems like anet is fine with the fact that thieves have 0 defensives but stealth and mobility by justifying it with high dmg (which is by all means i still not the highest, and sustained is still pretty bad actually)… but i can only assume based on current state of thieves

btw, from what i know eviscerate can hit for 13+k in one hit and wars don’t even have to sacrifice THAT much of survivability for it..

you listed 18k dmg, the war base HP is 18 372 though, unless you unequiped amulet you should have had higher HP than that so there is no way those attacks alone killed you, not to mention you still had plenty of time to use heal

still not possible to have your numbers…why?
well here we go: cluster bomb cast is 0.5 sec
let’s assume he actually was standing on top of you so minus travel time
how could he land backstab w/o being in stealth? i assume he used first CnD for it which is 0.5 sec cast, then backstab 1/4… then he had to have revealed debuff for 4 sec

unless he went other scenario which went like this: clusterbomb -> CnD -> CnD -> backstab
the thing with this scenario is that even if he chained CnD, he would still had to wait till stealth from first CnD weared off otherwise he would get revealed debuff

let’s assume he doesn#t run SA tree, CnD would give him 3 sec stealth, so we would have: cluster bomb (0.5), CnD (0.5) -> 3 sec stealth wait out -> CnD (0.5) -> backstab 1/4 sec

either way no matter how you turn it it is no where at 1 sec simply due to revealed mechanics

my best assumption is that Deimos is probably right that you completely lagged out and probably saw everything happening within a second

…or reroll warrior and have everything heh

milo.6942:

really it’s funny because at first blush, the pvp in this game seems amazing. lots of dodge rolls and blinks and bursts and general fast pace. they may even think it takes some kind of skill to win in this game but it is just an illusion easily dispelled by playing a fotm build for a little bit.

^^ so much this

i joined gw2 because they seemed to focus on pvp and i thought for once i can play mmorpg where pvp is not a joke due to huge imbalance between classes

videos and trailers looked amazing too

so i started to play gw2…. i was rather surprised to find out how raw/undeveloped pvp system is in this game as well as how silly class imbalance is atm

i think recent changes to pvp system were good but they should have happend long ago imo

or just do it like in LoL:
- you can join soloq alone or with 1 friend
- to do tpvp you need 5 man group, no less

Depths.4051:

Dustfinger.9510:

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

Uh-huh. So after the caution, then what do they use since the initial burst clearly wasn’t enough. and the low health and med armor isn’t either. So what should a thief do from there? Initiative is gone, no blocks or aegis to rely on.

Horrible suggestions like these make it clear that these complaints against thieves have no idea how thieves are played. So the suggestion can safely be ignored.

Then stay stealthed or whatever, it’s not an anti stealth trap it’s a trap that would stop you from running away and resetting. like a forced arena.

i run away in arena when it looks too bad and i obviously wouldn’t contribute much, what is your point?

honestly, by that logic they should remove half of GS sword skills for warriors then

oh and when we are at it, as well as nerf HS and adrenal. healing trait just because makes warriors too safe, they should face consquences of engaging the fight, am i right?

Flissy.4093:

Cynz.9437:

what if we could remove 1 (any) condition when we use dodge (trait)?…thoughts?

p.s. not talking about acro trait

OP considering the amount of dodges a Thief has.

do they really have that many? let’s assume you run acro, you get 3 dodges at time, that is 3 condis only (if you decide to waste your dodges on it; and no, i am not talking about weapon dodges, those shouldn’t count)… on my necro i can apply full bar of condis on you in no time again

Depths.4051:

Zacchary.6183:

And what should thieves get in return?

A greater sense of caution when you go to backstab someone, cause you might just be forced to see the fight through.

i think they have more than enough of that sense of caution… thieves don’t have anything but moblity and stealth…. neither of those mitigates dmg directly… thief can’t, by all means, fight toe to toe…they are not warriors

nerf condi/CC spam and you can nerf Lyssa all you want~

just an example
he kept chasing and attacking me despite stealth

how dare you to grind your way to lv 50 and demand better rewards :/

since patch i saw only 2 skins too

what if we could remove 1 (any) condition when we use dodge (trait)?…thoughts?

p.s. not talking about acro trait

bettadenu.5483:

So I need to ask other Thieves this question, what is left of your Thief?

• What do you do in a dungeon and what build do you use?
• What role do you fulfill in WvW in both roaming party’s and Zerg vs Zerg?
• Do you feel your class, the Thief is just as effective as other classes?
• Did you swap weaponsets? If so from what previous set to which current set?
• Do you feel underpowered, balanced or overpowered compared to other classes?
• What stats combination on your gear do you think is the most effective now?

I just want a general feel for what the opinion of others is about our class these days, if you are wondering about mine. I feel less useful than other classes in a party, with the exception of stealth taxi people through hard PvE parts such as in dungeons.

- dungeons: i run same build as in wvw (10/30/20/10/0 zerker + some pvt), too lazy to switch tbh… i switch between d/d, d/p, p/p and sb according to fights as well as utilities (signet of agility, smoke bomb, refuge, shadow step, assassin’s signet, smoke screen, thief guild, dagger storm)… odd enough in many dungeons i spend more time rezzing other ppl than anything else…still puzzles me how all those guards/wars die while thief stays alive to rez them heh

- wvw: (roaming) killing squishies, stomps, rezzess;
(guild zerg)scouting, sb blast finishers + daggerstorm, clusterbomb/choke bomb spam, ocasionally killing eles in the back

- thieves are good roamers but that’s it, tbh after playing other classes i think thieves lack team utility and either aoe dmg or aoe protection… i think issue is not even with thieves themself but how absurd some classes are atm, i highly doubt anet would consider tone those down to thief level though

- i tried to play about every set thieves have to offer, starting from s/p → d/d(backstab) → p/p → s/d → p/d → d/d (condi), ended up playing d/p (currently)

- as stated before, thieves in vacuum are actually fine, the issue starts when you add other classes and their mechanics… imo thieves have no place in bunker/condi meta due stealth not providing aoe protection, condis being too spammy and bunkers mitigating too much dmg from thief (that already have to sacrifice everything for dmg), pvp wise at least… when i see team of necros/engis in pvp i just wanna quit tbh :/

pve wise, i think thieves are decent but obviously not best, wars are just too good, guards are mandatory for some dungeons/pathes

- depends on build really, i play d/p so zerker + valk probably, some pvt for wvw

warriors were facerolling hard in wow during mop expansion…
currently wars are probably the best class to play in pve, wvw and pvp…

am i biting a cake here?

2/10 for effort

@Edward: hope you realize that it is the same for thief… reagrdless how good they are, 1 wrong move, 1 second and they are dead.

8k is not one shot chance, especially not on warriors…besides technically it wasn’t 1 sec

clusterbomb has like 1000 years travel time and half second cast, CnD has half second cast as well, to get behind target also requires time so let’s assume that guy was very fast so it was another half second… not to mention revealed debuff which is another 4 seconds

so i assume fight went like this:
CnD 0,5 sec cast
backstab (positioning) 0,5 sec
4 sec revealed
clusterbomb 0,5 sec + 0,5 sec till it landed (at least)
3 sec he did AA?
0,5 sec CnD
0,5 sec positioning for BS

so all together, in best case possible, in best positioning possible, w/o any delay etc. 6 sec…. that is more than enough time to react…. glass thief usually doesn’t even have that much time to react, they literary get 1 shot

JETWING.2759:

1 – Mesmer. Impossible to kill.
2 – S/D Thief. Infiltrator’s Return need be removed from game
3 – Thieves (other than S/D)
4 – AI (Pets, Spirits, Minions, Turrets, …)

it is already got removed kind of.. considering it has cast time now so you can’t use it while sitting in CC

Dee Jay.2460:

I’d rather they reduce the amount of AoE on the game than add even more.

me too… hence why i said on more serious note

amount of aoe and condi spam in pvp is ridicilous atm, it is not only unfun for thieves but for everyone else… the issue with thieves is that their entire survivability is based on stealth which obviously doesn’t do junk vs aoe hence why they get hit the hardest by current “meta” imo

the thing is, i highly doubt they will nerf aoe as it would affect pve too much hence i think thieves need some aoe protection or something

every time i face team full of engis/necros in pvp i just want to quit as i know i won’t be able to do anything to help my team

(keeps chewing on coal anet gave to thieves for xmas)

looking at dec 10th nerfs, i don’t think anet wants thieves to have any dodges outside of base ones tbh

we suppose to stay in combat, don’t go in stealth, don’t dodge and not allowed to do aoe dmg while points in pvp are spammed with condis/aoe by other classes non stop…apprently

90 sec cd…. yeh totally helps vs aoe from engi or necro, jk

hambow warrior crying about black powder

so basically you rolled class you didn’t play (if ever) for very long time
you played set you never tried before
you didn’t try to counter thief by any means or put any effort for it

you play probably the most broken class atm and complain about most crappy class (after ele) in pvp atm? really????

jokes are, thieves probably will get nerfed again because of posts like this heh

dat coal tastes like crap~

oh man…now at least i know why it happend… only relogging helped before :/

guild golem D8
151515

Shockwave.1230:

Thief condition remove is pretty solid.

You have a guaranteed removal of damage conditions via Hide in Shadows

You have a guaranteed removal of CC conditions with Withdraw and Roll for initiative.

You can remove three conditions with Shadow Step > Shadow Return.

I have never really needed more condition removal that those slot skills.

wait untill you do spvp and face team with 3 necros and 2 bunker/condi engis… i promise you you will want to unistall or reroll

as for topic: in wvw i use SA trait + HIS + shs
in pvp: HiS, signet of agility + shs + lyssa runes

overall i think thief condi removal is actually decent, the problem is just the game is all about spamming aoe/condi on point atm (in pvp at least) so no condi clean in the world would help there… if anything they should remove toughness/condi gear and nerf bunker/condi builds… you shouldn’t be able to go bunker and still do silly dmg (via condi)