They should remove condition duration and put in condition critical; then half actual condition damage and make them works as direct damage.
You want to go full condition? You have to raise condition damage + condition critical chance + condition critical damage.
Condition damage = power
condition critical chance = precision
condition critical damage = critical damage
so even who wants to play conditions will have to give up something… a Condition damage + toughness + vitality build is just OP.
I don’t think people understand how pivotal this skill is to the S/D kit. This skill ALONE allows you to spec pure offense with almost no sustain (personally I roll with completely no sustain, and I don’t even evade spam (S/D makes it possible to not evade, not stealth ONLY because of infiltrator strike), it’s all about the positioning and CC) because you can use it to avoid a key attack and then continue with the offense immediately after. You don’t have to worry about getting CC’d and then 1HKO by a chain because #2 exists. You don’t have to worry about getting stuck in the midst of a bunch of necro marks or other AoE because it exists. You can actually preemptively evade key skills with either #3 or evade, but if key skills hit it’s no big deal because you always have an escape plan.
You can’t just replace this skill with an offensive skill, the whole kit wouldn’t even work. It’s just that important.
So basically it’s always 2 2 2 , no matter which weaponset a thief is using.
The only thing that is a problem is perma stealth everything else is fine the way it is.
It can be easily fixed by changing Infusions of Shadows to grant 2 ini when you ENTER stealth not when you stack it.
This would not cripple X/D builds at all and it would still allow D/P to stack stealth to some extent but get rid of the cheese perma stealth.
Perma stealth , obtained abusing the combo, especially with the leap camera bug is totally annoying and should be fixed and toned down.
But it is just annoying, not even close to be game breaking.
Damage is fine, since to reach a good damage output you have to go deep in some trait lines and build in a specific way, giving up other things like toughness or vitality.
Thieves aren’t semi gods with 30 30 30 30 30 builds and 3k to every stat, but ppl seems to ignore it just because we have a pretty decent HoT while in stealth (with 30 points in SA).
Because then a 5 man group of good players would be able to kill a 30ppl zerg of players in CoF (the fastest and easyest dungeon) armor, making 30 casuals disappointed.
That’s why.
Perma stealth thieves are far from GC and put out much less dps than other classes.
You can do your magnet pull and the rest of your combo even if thief is hidden.
If you go out glasscannon you have to accept to die.
Thieves don’t have the best mobility. Warriors do.
You can magnet pull someone you can’t click?
Oh wait, you can’t
i don’t know engi, what i know is that a lot of times they pull me out of shadow refuge.
what if you do the ability with no target ? i think it should work, as almost every other skill does.
Daendur, although warriors might have a little better mobility, you cannot compare the escape viability of a warrior vs a thief, stealth gives so much misdirection that it isn’t even funny, and it leaves so much guesswork for the people trying to attack the thief, guesswork without any guarantee. Yeah……….
I said it before. Thieves are very good at escaping from zergs, while warriors still have better mobility.
That’s why a lot of solo roamers are thieves while the most played class is warrior…. tbh mobility is not the only reason … the class is quite simple, grants you group support, great damage, great mobility, high base hp pool and heavy armor….
I kind of agree with some of the stuff in this thread. I run glass cannon engineer 100% of the time, and I will by no means claim to be an expert on thieves. With that being said, I do just as much damage as a thief however in a 1 v 1 situation they have a 100% advantage because they will always have the option to use stealth to open and stealth to escape. Have I beaten bad thieves? Absolutely, I’ve instagibbed so many with a magnetpull/grenade barrage/jumpshot combo that I could not even begin to count.
However you know what happens when a good thief comes at me? He basically spams stealth and constantly resets the fight until he gets his burst rotation perfect and kills me. The funny thing is you cannot possibly chase one down, as they have the best mobility in the game. My point is this…. can other classes go full glass and do the same damage as a thief? Sure, but we don’t get the same get of jail free card which is bullcrap and anyone saying it isn’t is full of it.
Perma stealth thieves are far from GC and put out much less dps than other classes.
You can do your magnet pull and the rest of your combo even if thief is hidden.
If you go out glasscannon you have to accept to die.
Thieves don’t have the best mobility. Warriors do.
It’s a long list.
Dredge: you can open the first doors stacking stealth without dredges attacking you.
in the bomb path you can use stealth to place them and then run away using smoke screen to block ranged attacks and shortbow 3 to be in permaevade.
at the final boss you can use infiltrator’s arrow to teleport up and pull the lever quickly while your mates keep dpsing the boss.
grawl: venom share + chill – immobilize – basilisk + caltrops to snare/root little shamans + infiltrator’s arrow to quickly reach lava stones.
at the boss: stealth+ 1 spam pitol to destroy barrier (you won’t go out of stealth since you do no damage and you’ll fo a tons of attacks) using shadow refuge. + knives elite to reflect wurms attacks + smoke screen to block them while you kille them aoe with your bow.
i found SA a good trait line. but i guess you can do it in a tons of ways.
Thieves in fractal are usefull.
With a zerk build bring a shortbow and 2 pistols. You’ll do most of the content ranged since boss will 1shot you.
Any fractal has it’s own little tricks and you have to know which utility put in your bar and when to use them.
Confusion was OP and they nerfed it.
This rune is OP so they will nerf it. An internal cooldown is needed. They will also introduce more powerfull runes and revamp existing ones.
ok i found warrior i couldnt beat
we dual 4 times and i only manage to put him on 50% hp
he run 3400 toughness, -65% condition duration 21k hp mace/shield and greatsword
this fight was very long or very short depend if i manage to dodge/stunbreak his 3 seconds stun/daze
his only complaint was i was hard to catch) but bleed and confusion and torment wasnt last too long to impact enough
and also fought another warrior running something similar and only manage to get him run away and restart the fight….
any suggestion how to bit it?
Usually warriors don’t have much HoT so I found that, for me, the better way is a quick in&out approach.
Stealth, BS, dodge, heartseeker, C&D, BS, dodge and so on … shadowstep when he starts his chain stun, dodge his charge.
In your build I would change Instinctual Response with Bountiful Theft to rip boons and gain vigor (it’s 15sec vigor every 20)
But i think you have small to none chances since your main damage is from condition and you realy on stun and immobilize (with sword) that are conditions aswell and the -65% condi duration is a real pain.
Maybe you can change to p/d – d/p put in Hidden killer and gain a decent direct damage through backstab.
This rune is like the only thing that made Mesmer confusion builds viable again. If they’re going to nerf it they should at least revert the last nerfs on confusion.
Nah, the opener a against a thief involves immediate and potent doses of hate. You stun them immediately, then you hit them hard, then you stun them again, then you immobilize them, and then you hit them even harder. Against a thief, the best defense is a strong offense. If you give them the chance to get away from you, they will stealth, they will cleanse their conditions, they will come back at you with full health and full initiative.
Think of the most merciless combinations of stuns, cripples, chills, and immobilizes your class is capable of and put as many of those as you can in a build with a minimum of 3k attack, 50% crit rate, and 50% crit damage.
The best way to kill a thief is immediately and with extreme prejudice.
This, against me, never worked.
I’m suffering more a steady pressure than what you described.
It is that few small details can completely change a build and probably we had different experiences.
daze? stun? cc? traps? if the thief has a dagger OH maybe just dodge? l2p?
generally all these things work good
And you have a PERFECT chain CC like 10seconds or more on your character? You have THAT amount of CC? because i dont.
Are you talking about 10 players chasing a thief spamming CC? Or only 1 or 2?
did you know thief can stunbreak and go to stealth?
You are talking to spam to “possible thief location” trying to guess if you are hitting him or not?
And even if you can land a CC on him, you can only hit a couple of times before the thief go to stealth again… you have the power of oneshoot someone? because i dont, if i have i will die with a couple of backstabs vs a good thief.
If you win vs a thief, he is a BAD ONE who decide to die. When i kill a thief with my guard, is because he is a bad one who decide to die through retaliation.
VS GOOD THIEF you lose or thief run. No other possibility.
a running thief is a thief that lost his battle.
I prefer to die than run away; this makes me a bad thief? ok no problem.
the point is not CC a thief for 10 or more seconds, the point is use your CC at the right moment. make him waste his cooldown and than strike.
basically l2p.
I don’t see how this is a QQ thread? im not saying “nerf thieves” Im asking whats the point of having a build that wont kill anyone and is made for running away.
The “wont kill anyone” part is not right… is not the build that determines if you can kill or not, it’s the player.
If someone is not able to kill you, he could have done it wrong or maybe he’s bad or maybe you have a bunker duild you won’t die…
The problem is not stealth. Stealth is fine.
The problem is when people that don’t know their own class and completely ignore other ones want to go WvW solo… maybe because they lost their zerg and they want to join it.
This game is not “Street Fighter”. It’s not balanced on 1vs1 and WvW means support and group coordination.
Try to evolve !
Make a group, a well balanced group.
Support your mates and be supported by them.
Thieves will not be a problem anymore.
And if you are bad, it’s not because of stealth.
If stealth is so OP, roll a thief … and keep on dying, since you are bad.
I really don’t get what you guys are complaining about. There are technical issues that prevent raising the cap. Just deal with it. Constantly complaining about fixing the improbably won’t make it any better for you.
more than 10 years ago there were mmorpgs without technical problems in calculating more than 5 (lol 5 … I think I can handle it with pen and paper) targets…
If it is true ANet should instantly fire who wrote the code as it is garbage.
Rewrite it and remove this stupid cap.
Yeah and did those MMOS have:
-100 people on a single map/server
-different condition/boon effects (stacks and duration) and type of conditions/done (GW2 has 12/9 distinct conditions/boons)
Let alone all the other things that are included in calculations, such as keep timers, upgrades, internal cooldowns (i.e. dolyak spawns)
Obviously they were complete games … with all their calculations, their class, their buffs/debuffs everything that’s needed.
And there were much much more than 100 ppl in a map.
I really don’t get what you guys are complaining about. There are technical issues that prevent raising the cap. Just deal with it. Constantly complaining about fixing the improbably won’t make it any better for you.
more than 10 years ago there were mmorpgs without technical problems in calculating more than 5 (lol 5 … I think I can handle it with pen and paper) targets…
If it is true ANet should instantly fire who wrote the code as it is garbage.
Good thieves don’t need perma stealth. I welcome a reduction of stealth on my thief with open arms since I spec evade. Scrub thieves need perma stealth as a crutch to troll.
I’m waiting for the day they will nerf evade on thieves to write something like:
“Good thieves don’t need perma evade. I welcome a reduction of evasion on my thief with open arms since I spec stealth. Scrub thieves need perma evade as a crutch to troll.”
good day.
No one hates evades, lol. Attacking a decent thief who knows when and how to evade is a fun challenge, unlike playing against the scrub perma stealth clowns. By all means, lobby for evade nerfs! Lol
When stealth will be nerfed enough, thieves will start to use evasion builds, ppl will start complaining about perma evade thieves like they are doing with stealth.
Stealth has counters. Just use them or leave the perma stealth thief alone…
Even a cap raise to at least ten would still be too much? Because at the moment it sometimes feels like 5 is too small
Raising it even one would have significant performance impact because you need to think of it over an equation that causes that to multiply very quickly. Until and unless there are significant changes in the engine, which isn’t on the table, we will not be raising the cap on player skill AoE.
And what about introducing the same cap from attackers?
I mean I can only hit 5 targets (players should have priority in this) and it would be correct that I can be hitted only by 5 players, at least simultaneously.
If 10 ppl come and hit me with their #1 skill, ok, I’ll take one after one every attack, but if 10 ppl put 10 AoE on the ground (eg: well, meteors etc etc) only 5 of them hit me.
Good thieves don’t need perma stealth. I welcome a reduction of stealth on my thief with open arms since I spec evade. Scrub thieves need perma stealth as a crutch to troll.
I’m waiting for the day they will nerf evade on thieves to write something like:
“Good thieves don’t need perma evade. I welcome a reduction of evasion on my thief with open arms since I spec stealth. Scrub thieves need perma evade as a crutch to troll.”
good day.
Mostly for escaping/mobility. Swap, free dodge, shadow Shot. Daggers sure are fine too. In parties it means clusterbombing with nice bleeds, but overall AoE poison and very important weakness. We need this when outnumbered. Also pretty OP cripple with evades. SB is the most underrated weapon in this game. I dont like hydromancy as it uses to reveal me when i really dont want to be revealed.
the reveal part is true, but i managed to swap in safe place.
in group sb is mostly a must have… daggers can be viable when soloing.
Most instagib thieves start with basilisk venom. SO what you wanna do is when your character gets turned into stone, hit your stunbreak then dodgeroll. It’s actually simple, you don’t need superman reaction speed.
or simply cast “endure pain” and save a dodge roll.
why shortbow?
for solo roaming i think d/d can be better. you can stack more bleed with death blossom and have decent damage with backstab – hearteeker.
in the shortbow i found really good the sigil of hydromancy.
weapon swap + 2 2 2 on my feet it’s a good burst ’cause you have a 2.5-3k dmg from sigil + you slow down enemies and cluster bomb them.
) but bleed and confusion and torment wasnt last too long to impact enough