Guild Wars 2

Hesacon.8735:

Many had argued that 5-4-3 would better show the quality of servers, but this is clearly not working out with TC gaining glicko and solidifying themselves in T1 despite not having a good couple weeks.

Why would it show the quality? Who on earth argued that?

The skirmish score isnt the problem.

The reason dominating server keep dominating is because war score is completely out of order since the tier bonuses was introduced.

I present you with two random instances. Just look at it. Look at it

On the left, the difference is 5 camps + SM vs 3 towers and 1 one keep, it should be fairly close with 22 vs 20 points. Yes, Red should actually score higher than Green at base points, but it would be neck to neck literally. PPK would have a big impact. But no, Green dominate with +30 points due to tiers and their keeps will also be heavily defended in comparison because that’s all tier bonuses.

On the right, it gets far worse. At base points, Green would be 4 towers, 1 keep and 1 SM ahead of Red. That’s 16+8+12 points, or a mere 36 points. They are are an impossible to catch 100 points ahead instead because all that is freaking fortified objectives no weak server can even take with less people. And it gets even worse, oh yes! Look at poor Blue here. With two more towers yet 1 less keep, they should literally be at the same PPT as Red. Yet they are 35 points behind.

This is what’s wrong with WvW.

When Anet introduced tier bonuses, they kittened up WvW.

Changing skirmish points is irrevalant without Anet unkittening warscore.

Oh how ironic.

First thing I wrote in the balance thread was whether the balance patch would consider WvW for once – where condition damage remains out of control in certain setups – or just sPvP/PvE.

Then one read about this… This wont make a lick of difference for the engineer balance as a whole, it will only empower dire/trailblazer. Now with friend benefits!

Taobella.6597:

^ still like video if you get the time

Unfortunetly I have no idea how to count heals (I dont have time to do it manually, no), I was merely stating theoretical max. 95% of my time is also spent roaming on other classes so I dont exactly have plethora of recorded examples.

Lol I accidentally deleted my post when editing it, thought I had double posted. Man I got up too early today.

Either way, point is 1.8-2.3 million on ele passive AoE healing alone is what you can achieve Fay depending on foods and sigils etc. You didnt count soothing power.

Thats cute.

My tempest healbot would tick in its AoE passive at ~2 million in the same time (no overloads, no shout heal, no big or small water or the 1K AoE healing on autoattack, no regen applied, no water fields blasted, assuming 5 man tick).

Fay.2357:

It’s based on proximity, with players always beating out minions and npcs unless there are not enough players in the radius of the heal/buff to be hit.

Edit: Actual proximity ingame, not the arrangement of the squad menu.

It still prioritize party members though.

This is incidently also why mixed WvW party healing can become insanely strong, such as having a healbot ele in every party as opposed to dumping 5 eles in one “ranged” party where other players steal the nonstackable heals.

1) Get 9 character slots
2) Create one of each class

Its that easy and well worth the investment (if nothing else just for storage space). GW2 isnt a place where you need to play a main class to compete. Its built for alts.

Foefaller.1082:

Engineer: Bulwark and Sneak Gyros nerfed again, still hit like a wet tissue unless you are ok with being made of wet tissue.

That’s just not good enough. I am sure we will have the following changes instead:

- Skills has been removed with the exception of the the toolkit.
- Can no longer wear any armor.
- Can no longer equip any weapons.
- Toolkit #2-5 skills has been removed.
- Toolkit #1 repair ally turrets 3% faster.

Because purity of purpose.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Aeolus.3615:

snipples

tbh 2.7 is probably enough haha.
could you imagine a 20 person meleetrain with all guard running high healing power? omg it would be glorious!

Enough compared to what? That’s like 4s of just standing near a healbot ele that doesnt use any skills, lol.

I dont even get if this is an actual complain or just a sarcastic rant, because the argument is flawed regardless. What if that 10 man gank group is a boon share meta running guild? Whether its a “GvG guild” (lol who even does GvG nowadays) or a “roaming guild” is irrelevant.

Boons vs boonstrip has always been completely out of balance and the larger the group, the worse it gets. But it doesnt matter if the “boon share meta” stays or goes. Boons as a concept is flawed because it’s thrown around like candy even without boonsshare. It should be very short term play-counter-play based. Oh so a player try to attack you? Pop 5s swiftness and 2s protection to counter it and become more mobile so you can launch a counter attack. Not already have 2 minute of swiftness, 30s vigor, 30s fury, 1 minute regen and then press a button to achieve immortality.

So the big question:

Will balance between the classes in WvW both zerg/roaming be considered even once or is this a pure PvE/sPvP rebalance as usual?

The problem with this being that you forcibly limit the server populations, pushing them all down to bring them to the same low and equal level.

Thats communism.

Zenith.7301:

It’s plainly avoidable damage with clear delays and requires melee range to maximize.

I have to remember to whisper that to people when they die in 4s to my blowtorch. Because surely that meant they sucked and I am awesome at burns.

I dont think Anet has posted any stats since the year one info but I am not really sure.

Mesmer/Engineer tied for least played profession while Charr was least played race.

Warrior and Humans was by far the most common.

Zenith.7301:

A mesmer can’t chase disengaging targets. If you don’t want to fight a condi chrono or power shatter, you just turn the other way and run — they won’t catch you.

Do they really need to catch you when you are running with 15 confusion stacks, 10 torment stacks and 3-4 other assorted conditions?

Serious question.

No really.

Swamurabi.7890:

Jim Hunter.6821:

There’s a wvw team!?

Sometimes there’s an “I” in team

Tieam or Tleam?

The role was made marginal by the introduction of scout ballons and visible red tags on the map from sentries. DBL also made the role completely impossible because the map is too massive to keep an eye on so thats a quarter of the maps pointless for them (case of point, the SW tower can see up to the sentry… bay is still 3x that distance and hidden by terrain. On Alpine, you can see bay from the SW tower).

Then add the boons for zerging with lots of supplies (ie being able to dump shield gens and make it impossible to disrupt) and the inability for small groups to take well defended objectives (again, shield gens) and you got a situation where the scout is merely one that cries for the zerg to come.

It still exist, its just meh.

Ardid.7203:

Everything is smaller except heads. Yet weapons, details and effects shouldn’t be just shrinked. They should be tweaked and fully polished to still be clearly visible and look good on smaller PCs.

Except weapons got to be shrinked or it’ll clip through the ground. Human bodies are like long thin sticks in comparison to stubby Asurans – my dualwielded tiny Hopes already pretty much reach the ground.

Oh I think its working just fine, its only that it see numbers not players.

There is a pretty big difference between a 50 man guild with 5 active commanders leaving and 50 random pugs that AFK more time in spawn waiting for EB pop than playing.

Yet to the system, its 50 people leaving period.

Justine.6351:

isn’t wvw open world pvp already?

Its a separate instance with its own ruleset, so no.

Its theoretically possible to mix WvW and PvE but its gonna be so much work its not viable to do. I doubt they even have that on the table for GW3.

I can imagine it being done in the same way meta events are done – a zone has a 3h battle which pit 3 servers against each other. After that it has a period of “peace” (ie PvE). At any given moment there would be 4 zones at war. When you join a zone at war, its instanced like WvW (ie 3 servers fight and you join your servers instance). When you join it at peace, its like megaserver PvE. Some zones might be set up as EoTM as well.

But of course, all zones in the game would have to be built as WvW base and then have PvE added on top of them, like 2 layers you can flip on or off. Not gonna happen. An interesting aspect of this would be guild persistance through PvE – if your guild claimed a keep during the war, thats still your keep during the following peace (except the guards are friendly for everyone. Well, maybe they insult enemy servers).

What, you want 400g lol?

It has a definite Audiomachine vibe to it but who knows what exact tune it could be – 99% of that type music sounds the same (ie epic).

Gw2 maps arent really big enough for 8v8. We already tried it and they scaled it back to 5v5. Stronghold is the only map/mode that would truly shine 8v8, two lanes spread 5v5 too thin. Maybe the unicorn or whatever the map is called.

What I have always said and still havent found anything to convince me of anything contrary:

Personally I still find condi p/p vastly superior to power/cele hammer/rifle in small groups. The more damage the later go, the faster the p/p will demolish them in one on one combat. Rifle in particular is pretty weak. Hammer is ok-ish on a tanky sustain build supported by 2-3+ friendlies but against other dedicated roamers (ie thieves, mesmers, etc) it simply do not have the lingering bite to kill runners.

No and yes, obviously.

Removing dire/trailblazer would fix about 75% of the issues with both classes (and others for that matter). The remaining 25% is certain HoT elite specs still being OP because dd took evades to extremes and chrono took clone spam to beyond ridiculous.

Anet has given zero indication they have any wish to fix either.

Xenesis.6389:

If any maps should be reworked or made ever again, they should be made like ebg not a borderland map.

No, they should actually be EB IMO.

Not to improve the gameplay or anything, just to watch the hilarity ensue.

Imagine all the confused zergers.

Go to EB on logon gogogo even if its 80 man queue! Wait there are 4 EB? Where should I queue? Where do I go?! What will I do?!?! Who’s commanding EB? No not that EB, the EB I’m on!!! There’s no commander here! What, no there is a commander here why are people saying there is no commander on EB? We’re loosing SM!!! What do you mean “which SM”?! They are right outside Anza! No not that Anza, this Anza ffs!

Please Anet, make it happen. If only for a weekend.

reddie.5861:

thats how most DE/SP servers roll bunker up towers / keeps with 298239854038943 arrow carts and they enjoy it.
thus why i dont like WvW anymore, people dont fight anymore.

Lol what do you mean “anymore”?

Servers like Rivercart have been notorious for years due to the insane amount of siege and people that seem to make it their 24/7 work to sit on arrowcarts waiting for attackers. I have seen more siege in T0 towers than we had in T3 garri.

Keep in mind that if you get a keg you will barely notice it – you’ll just get multiple levels instantly. So you could have gotten lucky.

Theres stuff in the wiki but its not consistent:

The structure upgrades (Reinforce Walls, Reinforce Gates, Fortify Tower and Fortify Keep) may increase the health of gates or walls while also decreasing the damage caused by siege weapons. Initially, a gate has 410,000 health. A reinforced gate has 610,000 health (gates may not be fortified). Initially, a wall has 450,000 health. A reinforced wall has 676,000 health while a fortified wall has 833,000 health

But if you go deeper…

Basic Stonemist Castle, Keep, and Tower walls have 373,500 health.
Basic Stonemist Castle, Keep, and Tower gates have 373,500 health and ~22,000 armor..
Reinforced Stonemist Castle and Keep gates have 597,600 health, reinforced Tower gates have 493,020 health.
Stonemist Castle and Keep reinforced gates reduce all damage by 33%.
Tower reinforced gates reduce all damage by 25%.
Fortified Stonemist Castle and Keep walls have 821,700 health, fortified Tower walls have 612,540 health.
Stonemist Castle and Keep fortified walls reduce all damage by 50%.
Tower fortified walls reduce all damage by 33%.

You can go check the wiki for sieges damages, too much to post, or someone else can sum it up.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Dawdler.8521:

Well, did EoTM improve WvW by a noticable margin?

I would close eotm and only open it if you are in q for a map. eotm was supposed to be an overflow but instead its an alternative.
think of it this way: reset would happen every 3 hours! yaaay lol. welp imo it would be a lot more fun.

Yes I have thought of it that way and my question to you is how fun Superbowl would be if it happened every 3 hours? Great fun, right? Surely it wouldnt loose its meaning after a couple of days…

aarias.4016:

Dawdler.8521:

The real question is, what else are they supposed to do?

Split up their group and karmatrain twice as fast?

De-stack the server they are on, or have not stacked that server in the first place.

If everyone on a stacked server leaves for another, wouldnt that just stack the next server?

Stand The Wall.6987:

even when an extended battle against a ridiculously stacked server is normal? wvw is deserted in a lot of servers most of the time.
seeing reset night go would be sad, but do you think the sacrifice would be worth it if wvw improved by a noticeable margin?

Well, did EoTM improve WvW by a noticable margin?

Reset night is reset, so yes I look forward to it after a week of fighting some stacked servers. I am on FSP and is currently fighting Piken – we are so far behind in offtime coverage I dont think we have won any skirmish at all this week. Yesterday they would have held a T3 garrison, T3 hills and T3 bay on our home border in prime if a couple of people hadnt bothered to run around with golems.

No, I dont think sacrificing the soul of WvW is worth it.

Sviel.7493:

I like how DBL has polled way above 50% every time, but people still say the majority dislike it.

Probably because a majority of those 50% will still refuse to play on it even if they voted to keep it.

Either way you really dont even need to bring in percentages to know the facts. Just look at the kill statistics. Desert has nowhere near the activity of any given alpine border (which in turn will be nowhere near EB).

There are people that still havent muted team chat? O_o

The real question is, what else are they supposed to do?

Split up their group and karmatrain twice as fast?

Korgov.7645:

And secondly by encouraging 2v1 against the strongest team.

You say this like its some sort of pro.

It only work if a server truly hate another server so much they are fighting to loose the matchup. No I mean literally, for 2v1 to function in a 2/1/1 score world, the weakest server has to fight tooth and nail to come last while making sure the dominating server comes 2nd, that aint easy.

Especially not since your 2v1 “ally” will at the same time pound your weak kitten mercilessly after they got tired wiping against the strongest server.

Sometimes, every now and then, we just want to be able to play the same kitten game we bought into almost 5 years ago. Why Kyhlo was suddenly decided to be ruined by the camera of all things is beyond me.

We already got the new coloseum which solves open air fights and incidentally take teleport abuse to a level far and beyond Kyhlo.

KrHome.1920:

Dawdler.8521:

Having the PvP version of the skills would assume we actually have the PvP version of armor stats in WvW as well or balance would go completely out the door.

No!

Power based damage is calculated from

power
coefficient
armor

Stats affect only power and armor.

A coefficient change affects the balancing regardless which stats you have.

For condition damage the math is a bit different. Replace:

power > condi damage
coefficient > number of condi stacks
armor > vitality

so the conclusion is the same.

What does this even have to do with anything?

My point was that if Anet says well condi chrono isnt used so much in sPvP so we have buffed that spec plus its skills and you argue that these sPvP changes go hand in hand with current WvW armor stats and gameplay design then GG I’m out because my brain just blew up.

It would be literal chaos because your opponents shift so fast you will barely see them.

A major charm of WvW is the extended battle against specific servers… or rather, the war. The community thrive in this environment, not in EoTM style matches. Just something as simple as reset night is a foundation that keep WvW going at a steady pace, week in and week out. We look forward to it and we work toward it, then the cycle repeats.

With EoTM matchups, WvW degrade into a hot join hybrid where no one will care about the server as a whole, they are just there to win “their” 3h match and then they are off.

Having the PvP version of the skills would assume we actually have the PvP version of armor stats in WvW as well or balance would go completely out the door.

Justine.6351:

5-4-3 seems to keep the winner and the loser of a skirmish in competition?

No. Why should it? The winner of a matchup is often totally dominating and will win pretty much every skirmish. There is no competition if the second and third place stand zero chance. At least 5/4/3 is better than 2/1/1 which keep them at status quo while the dominating server just pulls ahead. That said it’s no different than 3/2/1 of course.

I fail to see the point of these high level score experiments. It’s not going to fix anything because it cant be fixed that way. Score gains need to be balanced on a low level, ie the worth of objectives over time, comeback mechanics, putting abandoned borders in sleep mode, avoiding runaway points by reducing warscore min/max difference, etc…

IMO the best score system we’ve had so far was the old 3/2/1 just before they added the kittenedly high tier bonuses. Far from perfect, but the shorter timeslices (15>5) and lowered PPT differences overall actually felt pretty good. After the tier bonuses we immiedetly saw 150-200+ PPT for the dominating server and all you could do was sigh…

Zephyra.4709:

• Salty whispers from players who can’t accept they’ve been beaten, especially with non-meta funzie’ builds (in fact it doesn’t matter WHAT build/gear/weps you run you will be on a salt collecting spree if you don’t set yourself to “invisible”)

Ha yeah its quite amazing when people cant even be salty right. The other day we where running 2 condi scrappers and 1 power rev… and of course someone whisper conditard. To the power rev. Because of course.

I miss the days when we got a cheese wedge mailed instead, salty players today totally lack class.

JemL.3501:

apparently he is not mad you idle…he is mad that the idle player could be a player from opposite team so can spy the tag thus the location of the players

It doesnt really matter anyway. Even if this particular loophole for spying is closed, you can just as easily be a “legit” zerger in guilds across servers and talk in the chat about where the com is. You cant stop it so there is no point having arbitrary rules and regulations.

I wise centaur once told me that riches is measured in hooves, not gold.

I got 2 hooves from him and no gold, so he was correct. Where the other 2 went I know not, but it sure wasnt my wallet.

Well we can always go back to the old pre-transmute combination system where you needed to craft two of the same legendary weapon to actually dualwield stuff like knives, if that’s what people want.

Also make them soulbound for good measure.

BordeL.1283:

.
This might need some sort of restriction so that trolls don’t drain supply of a t3 keep to intentionally downgrade it, tho. Ideas?

Just fix it like how we fixed supply trolls draining keep supplies 5 years ago and never saw it again.

Oh wait.

I think ideas is redundant at this point.

Rangerdeity.5847:

the problem is my zerg has usually around 3 teams of 2 roamers yaks bend can field 4 teams of 5 roamers that would allow them to hold our camps and slaughter our keep while we are fighting inside the keep to defend it. so this honestly wouldnt empower smaller servers it would just change playstyle a little bit. honestly a good change but not one that will solve our problems.

Thats nothing, some EU servers have 1 team of 50 roamers.

Curby.4897:

Dawdler.8521:

Its good idea in theory, but tbh its only a workaround for already existing mechanics that doesnt work so well for small forces trying to starve out heavily defended objectives – long range siege is way too expensive, weak and easily countersieged from impossible to hit locations.

This change is suppose to promote the idea of taking objectives without having to fire a shot (Figuratively) Siege is not the main focus as siege will not help you when your camp is being held by a force aimed at weakening you before the main assault.

Oh I got the idea. I just think its ultimately boring. Siege is the only thing keeping the playground of WvW dynamic and unpredictable, if all we ever had to do was to cap certain camps we’d get bogged down around them. Holding a camp already weakens an objective.

Fay.2357:

Burst healing has a place in WvW, and that place is on the regroups. However, it’s far more efficient to get that burst healing by dropping a single water and having all the guardians blast it with a 5 second cooldown than it is to make a druid burn a bunch of strong skills to accomplish that burst healing. Auramancer tempest is also far better at healing on the move than druid, since druid is quite tied to ground targeted effects they drop. It’s much more possible for an auramancer to heal throughout a push.

Auramancers also are providing heavy buffing that druid simply can’t provide. They provide huge uptime on vigor and substantial uptime on prot, which is necessary to jumpstart the mesmer’s boonshare as they don’t inherently produce either of those. This is on top of the other defensive/offensive benefits of the auras themselves that druid can’t supply.

And yet a melee build with what’s probably the best mobile water field that also grant protection to mitigate further damage while guards are blasting is one of the undesirables in the melee train…

Offair.2563:

Flip a camp or 2 for every alt f4 if you are so worried about a useless point.

Thats about as usefull as suggesting zergs go to Silverwastes if they are so worried about useless bags.

juno.1840:

This.

A key point being made is regarding the class build. A commander cannot tell a player is running a “good” WvW build simply by class identification. There are “bad” builds.

Yet at the same time, necros/guards/wars are always assumed to have good build by class identification.

Necros in particular get a complete pass, considering so many are running a fairly pointless reaper instead of a core wellomancer.

Guards are not even looked at as long as they dont bring the obvious tell of the taboo bigger marks and use a staff, lol

Hm. Kind of odd, no?