Guild Wars 2

Kind of a weird idea I have here after reading more coverage woes threads. A new scoring system that might solve the entire coverage issue across the board. I’m not sure what the coverage is like on all time slots on all servers, but I’ll throw this out there and see how it looks on paper.

This will be based on a Season 3 (if there is a Season 3). Probably not much point in doing this between seasons, but possibly, lets see.

There would be 3 different matches running per league, per week, and these will be based on time slots. These time slots are based on server time, not your time zone necessarily.

12am – 8am (Lets call this night time)
8am – 4pm (Lets call this day time)
4pm – 12am (This can be prime time)

Each time slot has it’s own PPT score, so essentially 3 matches going on per week. Winning a time slot that week gives you 1 point. Maximum of 3 points per week (obviously). It’s no secret, some servers just have overwhelming coverage at certain times which can completely skyrocket the score in their favor. Well that’s fine, that just means they’ll win that particular time slot (but not necessarily the other 2). The time slot’s scores are not connected in anyway, they are all separate. Everyone’s play is equal, you do YOUR share to make sure YOU win YOUR time slot.

Under this system, a server that only has great coverage in say prime time, but abysmal coverage everywhere else, has a decent shot at least to pick up one point for that time slot.

In the end, the scores should be much closer and it should be easier for some servers to stomach when they log on to their time. This could also encourage more people to join WvW. Servers themselves may start to even out because it might be hard for guilds to justify moving to a “winning” server, when that server may lose 2 out of the 3 time slots due to coverage issues.

It’s also hard to justify moving to a stacked time slot because of Anet’s little rule of 100 person limit and ques. Would you really want to move to a time slot and wait 4-6hrs every time you log on? Probably not, I sure wouldn’t.

Basically, most points at the end of the season wins (simple). If there is a tie, give equal rewards.

TL:DR

Further separate the match into 3 matches based on time slots (12am – 8am) (8am – 4pm) (4pm – midnight). Winning a time slot that week gives you a point. Most points at the end wins.

SoS puts up a much better fight than JQ or BG does, sadly they don’t have the coverage numbers to compete.

As the title states, what do people think of this? I’m not sure if this has been brought up before, but basically whenever the server successfully “repels the enemy attackers” war score is added.

Many issues have been brought up with why people should bother even defending, especially when most things seem to flip within the last 5 min of the tick. Myself included, it often looks more appealing to just let the enemy have it now and we’ll flip it before the tick so we get the rewards and the points. A win win situation.

How might WvW look if points were now awarded every time a structure is successfully defended? Could this force zergs to split up and deposit people in each structure as to drastically increase their chances of a successful defense?

Maybe it could look like this:

Camps – 100 points
Towers – 200 points
Keeps – 300 points
SMC – 400 points

Or if you think those values are too extreme, maybe cut them all in half. Basically the points would have to be high enough as to make it appealing to actually defend.

Here is how I see it, even despite of Anets current score system. It is always advantageous to team up against the server with the clear coverage advantage. The goal should simply be times where numbers are equal on all sides, for 2 of the sides to push the leading server as far down as they can. This way when they log off and the other servers coverage takes over, they will be so far down in points, they might be lucky to catch up. Rinse and repeat. Now, it doesn’t have to be a 2v1 24/7 as clearly one server needs to take first. Their will be some strategic back stabbing to see who does it but aside from that, the common goal should be to keep the stronger server stuck in 3rd place.

If numbers were equal at all times, and coverage was similar, this wouldn’t be necessary, but when servers have clearly larger numbers, it’s more beneficial to keep them down so they never take 1st or 2nd. Perhaps if servers started doing this effectively, it could stop people from transferring to stacked servers.

Think of it this way, how intriguing would BG look to join if the rest of the season resulted in them coming in 3rd place every match with say points around 100k because of constantly being 2v1.. Something to think about..

I think a lot of the “coverage” issues would be solved if they just added points per kill.

- Give 5 points per kill
- Give 10 points per spike

Outnumbered:

- 10 Points per kill
- 20 points per spike
- The force that outnumbers gets no points per kill

We can argue that the larger force may still win but often this is not the case. More often than not from what I’ve seen when numbers are even out on the battlefield, the server with the highest points doesn’t usually win the battles. We all know coverage wins. We also know there have been small guild groups in the past of 15-20 taking out forces triple their size. Now think in an hours time in heated battles (especially in SMC), just how many kills occur. If a map blob of 60 engages 30 people; 30 people kill say 50 of them while losing 0.. well that 250 points right off the bat (1 average tick).

Now if they engage in battle say 5-10 more times that hour, well you quickly see how the score can rack up. Now when you equate this too say strong prime time where numbers are even vs say SEA time where numbers are completely lopsided. We will probably have a case where a prime time server may make 4000-6000 points in kills alone where the enemy with better coverage will probably make that up during off hours.

Pretty even if you ask me, and it definitely would change the face of how it works.

I actually like the 2v1 thing. TC got 2v1 hard last night while I was on and I enjoyed it. Got far more bags than I would have got from capping towers. It keeps things interesting because your constantly fighting. I know some don’t like it, but in a 3-way battle it’s to be expected.

I’m surprised though as why any servers would 2v1 anyone but the leader. Shouldn’t TC and JQ being teaming up to topple BG down to more respectable points that those servers can reach? IMO, it makes more sense to say, team up to the point the top server is wiped off every map then spawn camped until the scores are more leveled out.

I like the 2v1 system though, though i’d much prefer if Anet upgraded their systems enough that we can add a 4th server to the mix.

There was less skill lag yes, but it was still brutal enough to the point I had to leave SMC because I couldn’t cast any skills to clear conditions.

It’s one thing to run around spamming 1 and hoping to win; it’s a whole other thing to have a barrage of conditions on you that you cant do anything about.

I’m sure at some point Anet will implement such a system.. but I really hope they just add the lootbags in our inventory as stacks up to 250, then just let us open at our leisure.

It really would make the battle more fluid if players weren’t running around mashing “F”, picking up banners and stopping to plant them. I know they can just not do that until after the battle, but the problem lies in if they die, they probably won’t collect their bags.. so let the “F” mashing begin.

Hmm good point.

Why can’t rangers have out as many pets as minions and just let 1 be controllable and the rest AI based. Sure they are much stronger than than any pets/minions in the game, but they are supposed to account for 40% of our damage which currently they do not. Perhaps having those extra pets out which actually make it so they do account for 40%

They should just remove the LB from the warrior all together. They aren’t a ranger, they already have rifle, them holding a LB doesn’t make sense.

PPT shouldn’t be locked at night, but people should be forced to play on servers closest to their time zone..

For example: Nobody in the EU region should be playing on the NA servers and vice versa. If they implemented some sort of system that forced people to play to the closest servers, the issues should work themselves out. Que’s would probably be greater during prime time yes, but that’s just the nature of the beast. No need to close off PPT at night.

I would be in favor of seeing a system where servers that have the outnumbered buff:

A) Don’t have to deal with the RI buff on tower keepers
B) Increase the RI buff on tower keeps to say 10-15 min on the “outnumbering” server
C) Gain war score for all types of kills (siege included)
D) This may be a bit extreme but don’t allow the “outnumbering” server to either deploy or use siege

I see it going this way as well. It’s been brought up numerous times in the past about tying teams to something else rather than servers (like factions) and creating similar multiple instance maps that should be even.

As of right now, this is the only logical way to solve the coverage / population issues to to unify the servers under some common theme. Unless someone comes up with a better idea, this is all we have to work with at the moment.

If they implemented this change as well in WvW like quite a few have mentioned in the past.. Making WvW faction based (for example) as opposed to server based, you’d solve the coverage issues in one fell swoop. Having 3 factions per say (mega servers with multiple even instances of each map), instead of 27 servers (high populated servers vs ghost town servers), you now have solved the problem.

People just have to let go of the “server pride” mentality for the greater good of the game.

why don’t they just reduce the effectiveness of toughness by 10% across the board then to compensate? Toughness scales much more improperly than crit damage. A PVT player vs a zerker player of the same class; the PVT hits harder. That tells you right there that toughness scales much more than a crit can deal.

You’d think a full zerker dps class hits the hardest in the game; nope, matched up against their counterpart in PVT, they do about 20-30% less damage. So I’m fine if they reduce the full zerk build by whatever they want, as long as, they reduce toughness to the point that a zerker will hit them 20-30% harder; not the other way around.

The easiest way to do this is to force people to play in the area that they live in. If your in NA, you play on the NA servers; you don’t play on Europe servers and vice versa. If/when other servers open up (like China’s) force players who are in those areas to those servers.

No more SEA coverage and limited Oceanic coverage. The only people running crew are those who are naturally awake during those hours, or those who have nothing better to do. There will still be people playing 24/7, it’s just now the coverage is more respectable and in line.

Best case scenario, and hopefully they do it sooner rather than later, is close off servers too far out of your time zone. This would probably do wonder for limiting skill lag as well.

This is mainly for defending or giving people a reason to defend or even park people inside the tower to defend in the first place. How about awarding points for killing players while defending. What I mean by this is, kills made while your Inside or On The Walls of the base also award you war score.

Score would be awarded (1 pt for downing / 5pt for kill) for any kills made while your stationed inside the structure. This also includes siege kills made while inside. Perhaps if your outnumbered, the amount of points awarded could be doubled or even tripled.

Now, we all know the attackers have the advantage as it doesn’t take a lot of effort to clear siege from a base. Given this, I think many people just give up actually trying to defend outside of placing a scout inside the base and notifying the zerg. Perhaps this would give reason to place say 3-5 people inside each base and also give reason to reduce the size of the zerg.

Just throwing this out there. I’ve always been in favor of a scoring system that awarded points on kills (not just spiking). I think a system like this would give people more reason to defend, and certainly make scores a lot closer if the smaller group is more skilled in combat.

I saw that achievement too and tried killing a few giants only to see the total never went up. I chalked it under the “bugged” category and won’t touch it further.

JJBigs.8456:

Tired of engi/ranger spamming on obsi sanctum from 1500 range where they are unhittable by ALL CLASSES except traited rangers/engis…so fair and fun

So are you asking for nerfs to these classes? Are you actually asking for a nerf to the Ranger…. lol.

Sure bring the ranger down to 1200 but reduce the damage and defense of every other class by 30% to compensate.

I think the only way it will be fixed is if they upgrade their servers. You see, it takes money to make money and I’m sure they’ve made enough money on gem sales 10x over to upgrade their systems.

I that if they don’t take the route of upgrading their servers, people will inevitably leave and their cash flow will run dry. Listen to the players and upgrade everything, well keep the cash flow coming.

ElexOrieN.2130:

Title says it all.
Vizunah Square and Seafarer’s Rest are camping inside the Obsidian Sanctum with insane huge zergs making it impossible to get the WvW Season 2 archievment.
Now can a dev please explain to me how the kitten i’m suppossed to get through there?!
http://abload.de/img/gw064uzkpu.jpg
Also entering any of the other WvW maps is now impossible too due ridicilous Queue’s.
Why does ArenaNet never think these things through?

Seeing that is like xmas morning for a couple of glass elementalist’s up top. The only thing worse than having that below is having a few devestating AoE’ers up top. I would have had a hay day there

I know people will argue with me over this but an elementalist’s back line support vs an enemies back line dps; the back line dps will win almost all the time, unless they are really incompetent.

I tested out seeing how much healing I could dish out when spec’d for it, bottom line, 5 of me in that spec wouldn’t be enough to hold off 1 elementalist’s dps. My advice, stay away from support as your primary goal and stick to either hybrid or dps.

Ele’s dish out a crap load of dps, you just have to learn to stay alive, and keep Lightning Flash on your skill bar to quickly get out of harms way. I don’t want to say support is useless because you can still provide decent condition cleanse and combo fields.

If you plan to stay in the back line, stick with staff for dps.

Just add one piece of armor breaking upon being down, then an additional piece of armor breaks on death. Then remove the repair npc from WvW and force players to leave to repair.

That should be a big enough consequence.

The one standing by your side out of harms way that can provide you with buffs..

I can see this as a concern but my counter would be:

Dugeons: if people are asking or demanding you to re-trait for “their” benefit, they aren’t worth partying with. 9/10 they will probably be the cause as to why the dungeon fails to begin with because they have no idea what makes a decent group.

WvW: This already happens. Every time a group or commander is vocal about certain classes carrying certain weapons or using certain builds etc.. These groups tend to wipe continuously due to again, not knowing what makes for a decent group vs what your facing. Advice, leave the map for a different map until either that commander de-tags or leave the map themselves.

I agree as well. I still need to do this instance but nobody wants to do it. This quest has been in limbo for me for months.

This is a PvE driven change that’s rolling over into WvW which will make it exponentially worse for some people/classes. It does nothing to solve the problem because zerk players will be zerk players, it is what it is. They aren’t going to change how they want to play. A 10% reduction is still going to make it infinitely more effective than any other build to run dungeons.

As for it rolling over into WvW, yes it does hit some classes harder. Ranger firstly because the ferocity change also affects their pet. So the ranger and their pet are taking a dps hit. Will Anet buff the pet to compensate? Not likely. Some players also rely on crits to get the job done because they just don’t have the survivability or the skills to dance around in melee range.

We can argue 10% isn’t that much, but when you look at how “supposed” dps builds stand up against other builds that aren’t dps based, you really have to wonder. Take 2 of the same class, put one in PVT gear and the other in Zerker gear. The Zerker gear should deal both more burst and sustained damage right? Not in this game it doesn’t, PVT deals a considerbly more damage. It’s not 10% either, it’s in the range of 20-30% Given this, crit obviously is not a problem, toughness is. If anything, toughness should be taking a significant hit in WvW to balance things out.

- Both rubber banding and skill lag
- Tarnished Coast
- I often run solo, but the times I’ve been in groups, yes we’ve all experienced it
- I’m not sure if others on the map experience lag, if so, they aren’t vocal about it. What I can say for sure though is when there is a big battle going on and I’m running to it from my keep or home base, there is no lag, only when I reach the battle
- The lag only happens during big battles which I estimate at least 25 or more are on each side.

Interesting note, if I stop moving all together, the lag sequence seems to speed up. The lag always seems to start when the 2 groups are just about to engage which makes me wonder if Stability has something to do with it. Everyone and their dog is popping stability right before clashing.

For the people who same or claim that all classes are nerfed equally across the board with this crit hit, is not true. Your forget, there is another piece to the Ranger’s puzzle.. their pet. They are also subject to this nerf because they will in fact operate under ferocity instead.

We can argue all day long that the pets won’t survive long enough anyway (which I totally agree), but you can send them to attack flanks and stragglers. There is also the roaming option; either way, there are options to keep your pet alive and attacking instead of sending it to it’s death in a zerg. As long as your pet’s alive and attacking, it also suffers from the crit nerf. You know Anet will not buff them to compensate.

You also have to look what is truly effective for Rangers and what isn’t. In zerg play, the most effective thing right now is to stand back with your LB and pick your spots. Your almost guaranteed to survive while sustaining damage, but this relies heavily on crit damage. Running PVT gear and mixing it up in melee range in the zerg is completely ineffective compared to standing back. We just don’t have the proper skills to sustain damage like other classes.

Other classes can in fact do quite well in PVT gear while in melee range, which is pretty much on par as to what Rangers are capable of at range spec’d for dps. Nerfing crit to me is no different that the quickness nerf we suffered. That hit Rangers the hardest and sure enough, this crit nerf will hit Rangers the hardest again in more ways than one.

Now suppose Anet decided to not go through with the crit nerf but instead nerf toughness instead (which I think they should do). What classes do you think would get hit the hardest? You can’t add rangers to that one as a front runner..

It also benefits condition classes as there is no way to clear them

I think stability should have it’s duration halved, cool down doubled, and remove group stability from the game.

Every battle starts seemingly the same, pop stability and watch everyone’s CC become useless. It’s a bit tiresome. Perhaps give a 50% reduction in armor for 10s after stability has worn off would be whats needed.

The worst thing I find about the current skill lag is it makes cleansing conditions next to impossible. Too often tonight I run into the battle then get a variety of conditions on me but unable to remove them because nobody seemingly can use their skills.

Maybe conditions do play a roll and are OP after all in a zerg. Get the zerg big enough and your conditions are basically un-removable.

I used to support the AoE cap being lifted but after tonight.. again with the skill lag, it would make the game completely unplayable..

I think I have a better solution though.. Amplify the damage based on the number of targets sitting in the red circle (up to a max of 25 players). Basically for every player past 5 in the red circle incurs a 5% damage increase to whoever is hits.

10 players = 25%, 15 = 50%, 20 = 75%, and of course 25 = 100%.

I don’t think this is too over the top because most people generally don’t run full dps builds, so their AoE won’t be too noticeable. Those that do run full zerker will now possibly get their damage back and then some to compensate for the critical damage nerf. Gives reason for players to more run zerker now and play on the edge so to speak.

Id even go as far to say that if there are 30+ in the red circle, also incur a healing debuff that prevents healing for a few seconds.

My guess is when people first see a good list of changes, their initial reaction is positive. Hey changes can’t be a bad thing right? Well they in fact can; when people sat down and started to comb through what is being brought forth (depending on what class they play and mode they play in) it’s either going to enhance their play experience or wreck it.

Now players who play PvE probably aren’t going to be as vocal as the PvP or WvW’ers are because PvE is generally fairly easy content. When it comes to PvP or WvW, the slightest buff or nerf can completely destroy any semblance of balance between classes.

Looking at the traits, I can just imagine people’s minds churning thinking “great, now how am I supposed to deal with this or that class”. Or “Ya, I can’t see these traits helping in anyway”. Or the worst “why is my class getting shafted while others are getting worthwhile buffs” aka the Ranger.

This is why things turn toxic rather quickly.

Aomine.5012:

style.6173:

@OP

Well said. The crit damage changes should NOT apply to WvW. Still time for ANET to realize that

The crit damage change should ONLY affects WvW if you ask me.
It does not affect wvw as much as you want to make them be because a real WvWer in a group fight almost always invest in toughness or/and vitality to decrease the chances hammer train kill them in one go. They would not use this so called highest dps PPCrit because of how CC and rallybot in this game works.

The only people who’d get affected are those roamer thieves, roamer zerker Guardian, roamer zerker shatter mesmer, roamer zerker scepter ele who tries to bring the opponent down in 2 seconds with the highest spike damage in game by “exploiting” the coefficient in crit damage. Crit damage is the only stat that has a increasing return the more you invest in, and in PVE, the cap is just simply too high. (120~ crit damage = 270% more damage)
I think this type of play-style is extremely unhealthy to the game, much like how the old quickness affecting the game. (old quickness is 2x attack speed)

All I want to say, the crit damage nerf in WvW is not the end of the world. It affects normal WvWer almost to none, and force some unhealthy builds have to respec it for something more healthy. (like investing some survivability instead)

Not everybody wants to play a survive style build. Some people just like the thrill of killing (and dying) fast. That will never change.

The real problem isn’t crit damage and how it scales, it’s how toughness scales in relation to gear. It’s been brought up numerous times that when 2 classes fight each other; when you put one in PVT gear and the other in zerker gear, the PVT geared player does more damage, how do you explain that?

If crit damage is such a problem then wouldn’t the person in zerker gear do substantially more damage to the point one would look at it and think "ya zerker really does need a nerf? This isn’t the case, PVT does more damage, so what does that tell you? Maybe zerker needs to be buffed and/or PVT gear needs to be scaled down (especially toughness)?

I can understand maybe toning down zerker in PvE but when it comes to WvW, not only does zerker need a buff, toughness should be scaled back, because as of now it makes no sense that player in PVT gear does more damage.

I agree, at least for someone to rally, a spike should take place instead. The situation still isn’t perfect but at least it’s better than what we got IMO.

As for the team speak argument and blaming pugs for rallying, ironically it’s the people in team speak that die the most because it seems they can’t learn to play to their classes strengths and weaknesses without someone shouting instructions. I’ve played on 4 different servers and it’s the same every single time, “get on teamspeak”, people in teamspeak die (again), people not on teamspeak finish the battle off, pick the teamspeakers up after battle. Then they blame the people outside of teamspeak.. which is kind of hard to do when they are the ones finishing off all the rallying the teamspeak crowd caused. Usually whenever I enter a map and find out that most of the zerg is in teamspeak, I leave because more often than not, it means wipe after wipe.

Teamspeak does have it’s uses though, map roaming being the primary one.

I’ve hit people harder than that with auto attack so yes it’s legit. I’ve also done with 0 might stacks.

You see, rangers have extremely high dps if you traited and geared properly; however with this new impending change to crit, not so much anymore.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Um, you get that it’s across the board right? This isn’t a thing that was done to us specifically.

This change hits the Ranger harder; it’s not just the Ranger but their pet as well. They are also subject to the ferocity change which means their damage is also taking a hit. Do you think Anet will buff the pet to compensate? Wishful thinking.

Phantasmal.5631:

Facet.5914:

Fortus.6175:

while I had no healing to offer, no health to tank any stray AoE, no low CD CC to provide, no conditions to reliably put, I still had my damage to give in a teamfight when everyone turned theirs eyes away from me.

Putting aside for moment that I actually agree that condition builds were already very strong periphary, and that there was no reason for them to get stronger in relation to power builds, and that many of them are disproportionately easy to play, it sounds like you are misunderstanding the role of your own class. Of the top reasons an organized group takes staff eles,

1. Healing Rain / Cleansing Water
2. Geyser
3. Static Field
4. Lava Font
5. Frozen Ground
6. Meteor Shower

None of the five most important spells are for dealing damage. Staff Ele is primarily a support character. If anything the ferocity nerf will help you die less quickly to power-based gank.

This SO much! A zerk staff ele is there as a SUPPORT role for the front line members. We will still be strong regardless in a support role. What’s not to like?

I’ve heard this before and it’s not entirely true. If spec’d for damage, they play a much greater role in wiping the enemy out rather than keeping their team alive. 5 elementalists using geyser and healing rain all at once will not out heal the damage dealt from a single meteor shower. This is not to say they aren’t needed, but maybe 1 or 2 max in a zerg and only for healing rain and frozen ground, just forget geyser and call it a day.

Anytime I hear a call for elementalists to go water in zerg fights, I just snicker because I know there is an impending wipe coming. Take out your max AoE dps’ers from the equation, great plan.

Far easier to defend when you force the enemy in a small choke point. No word of a lie, a glass staff Ele can solo defend it fairly easily. Took down a group of 12 or so in a few seconds myself this way. No way I could do it if the walls were being catapulted from afar.

Whether it turns out to be 10%, 12%, 20% or 30%, Rangers will come out on the short end of the stick on this one. Remember, it’s not just them, their pets are also affected by the ferocity stat as well.

Rangers in full zerker down at least 10%, but I’ve seen far better proof in calculations showing a 20% hit for all classes (sorry OP). The pet sitting at whatever stat combos are also taking a hit. So whatever hit the other classes take, the Ranger will take an additional penalty due to their pets. Now will Anet buff the pet to compensate? Wishful thinking..

Well I’ve seen a few posts worked out that are showing those in full zerker builds are actually taking a 25%-30% damage reduction across the board.

It’s true most people do not run full zerker in WvW, but there are still a chunk of people that do. The fact that a change like this is going through is basically discouraging people from playing a dps focused build.

It’s already hard to justify using full zerker when in fact a player in full PVT gear does more damage (wrap your head around that one). So when every Tom, kitten, and Harry is running either a warrior, guardian, or condition/bunker class; then people will truly see just how bad of a change this is. For PvE I can maybe understand, but for WvW, this change should not go through.

People in PvE who use zerker gear will continue to do so and blow through content, that will not change. People in WvW who rely on crit are going to get the royal screw job.

Crit does not need to be touched, encouragement to play different builds does. Just like the “we nerfed Shortbow to make Longbow more appealing” does not work. Giving people a reason to use the Longbow (like making it pierce and unable to sidestep by default instead of using 30 points), makes it more appealing to use.

Perhaps content needs to be made makes it more efficient to either be in full bunker, condition, healing, or hybrid instead. Then give us an armor swapping button to switch in and out with ease.

Forzani.2584:

Square peg …round hole.

I only have 4 level 80’s. Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist and now Thief. My mood any particular day will help me decide what class I am going to play and what build.

If I feel like supporting the zerg i will equip Staff on my ele, change the build and join in……or trait my Warrior with a banner or two and bunker up.

If I want to roam I will go condi/bunker with Ranger…or use Thief…or go S/S +lb condi with Warrior.

If I want to play on the edges of the zerg and pick off people I will go glass on ele S/D ….or go rifle with Warrior …or go LB power with Ranger

etc etc blah blah etc

Every single class has strengths and weaknesses. Play to the strengths and have fun. The whining gets real old real fast.

The problem is though, not everyone enjoys a warrior, thief or elementalist. Not everyone likes to play defensively, nor does everyone like to play condition style. Some people (many), like to play full dps with maybe 1 or 2 classes because that is in fact what they enjoy. Taking that away from them could easily push them into leaving the game, which of course does not help with the health of the game at all.

In this case, some people like just playing the ranger and want/expect them to at least be on par with the other classes; they are not.

People just like to play certain builds. Those that play zerker builds will always play them, you can’t force them into something else. Point being, they kill their build off or alter it in such a way that they don’t like the numbers showing up anymore, they are more likely to quit rather than adjust to a build they don’t like.

I’m fine with the feature patch, as long as, they leave WvW damage the way it is (even though dps needs a buff).

The problem is, I think people are more likely to get bored and leave WvW rather than adjust and run tankier more condition heavy builds. Besides, how much fun are people going to have if the vast majority are running warriors, guardians, and condition bunker builds?

Some say zerker will still do the most damage in the game; this is true for PvE but not for WvW. As it stands now, a zerker build vs a PVT build (not sure about condition bunker yet); the PVT build does more damage. Nerfing crit makes it even worse.

Hopefully, adding the second sigil will make up for the damage loss; however, those with Elementalists and Engineers are going to get the short end of the stick. It would also be nice if they created a new sigil that added “x” number of ferocity based on your power to at least bring back the damage.

Sunreva.8714:

nerfing crit damage (and beserker builds) is a great idea, there isn’t enough condition bunkers in wvw, they were unrepresented. Hopefully now, we will see condition bunkers become more prevalent

No it isn’t,

PVT builds do more damage against berserker builds when 2 classes are paired up against each other.

You put a warrior in PVT gear vs a warrior in zerker gear and the PVT gear warrior will out damage them with all their skills. That alone will tell you nerfing crit damage is a terrible idea. If anything it needs to be buffed. Either that or people that run condition/tank/vitality builds needs their damage cut by 25%-50% across the board to even it out.

I met up with my buddy last night, he runs a PVT warrior and I was running a full glass staff ele. Wielding a hammer, his auto hit me for 8K (fair enough im in glass). My crit however against them was no more than 4K.

How exactly is it a zerker build does less damage than one running no crit? I don’t see how people think zerker builds are OP or need to be scaled back.

I think all conditions should have their duration times reduced 50%. I also think any points spent into toughness and vitality should be 25% less effective as well. We mine as well even things out.

The solution “may” work in PvE but it isn’t needed in WvW (go figure it isn’t touched in PvP)

When you take 2 equal classes and place one in zerker gear and the other in PVT gear, the PVT gear out damages the zerker geared player. Can anyone not see the problem with this? Zerker doesn’t need a nerf, if anything it needs to be buffed (or at least buffed in how it reacts with other players).

Either that, players who run toughness/vitality builds should take a major dps hit once their toughness and vitality reach a certain threshold.

The problem is when trying to balance something like this, it actually makes the balance much worse somewhere else. The game in it’s current state is more balanced with crit damage sitting the way it is.

They also have to take into consideration that other classes take a bigger hit with this nerf. Take the Ranger for example, their pet also takes a hit, so in essence there are 2 entities taking a crit damage nerf.. not just 1.

If Anet’s claim is true that it’s a 10% damage nerf across the board for zerker.. what does that mean for the pet? Does the pet not also take a crit damage nerf as well? They are responsible for 40% of our dps, so now our 40% dps pet is going to deal even less? Please..

law.9410:

Invigorating bond looks very interesting, can’t wait to try it with a traited fern hound

Won’t make a difference in small group or zerg play. There are plenty of people that play damage heavy ranged classes that will far out dps any healing gained from this skill. Since the pet is usually first to drop, it really makes the skill next to useless.

I’ve said this before and so have others, this particular nerf hits Rangers the hardest because stacking crit was the only real way to put us on par (damage wise) with other classes. Other classes didn’t generally stack crit because they usually are in the front lines. At least with us in the back lines, our damage was now respectable and we could survive.