Guild Wars 2

AlphatheWhite.9351:

DeathReign is incorrect. Hybrid condi does very strong damage, even in pve.

It is, however, afflicted with the usual flaws of condition builds (immune bosses, cleanses, objects in Tyria), and is weaker at reflects than power builds.

Furthermore, you might have people wondering why you didn’t just bring an engi if you wanted to run hybrid condi.

My apologies, perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. I meant that condition mesmers are not as effective as other classes (such as necro or engi, or even thief) due to the fact that most of the condi pressure we have is situational (Confusion and torment). Thus, it would be better to just run power on Mesmer.

Hi there!

There really isn’t much point in trying to go hybrid/condi as a Mesmer PvE, due to the fact that the conditions we apply are mainly PvP conditions (Confusion + Torment). These are situational control conditions that aren’t as effective in PvE due to the nature of mobs.

Your build closely resembles the build shown here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/PvE-The-New-Chronomancer-Dungeon-Rotation/first

Check it out! You might appreciate the essence of it.

thunderfall.8095:

I’m trying to make a dungeon/pve Mesmer build, that can be used for pvp, but I main thief so I really don’t know what I’m doing. Here is my current build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRArd8ensnB9phVqB2fCcrhlZj6sH6tfrMAutkp+WD2hF-TZxAAB7fEAi+FAQ1+DAcQASrMAA
P.S. Please don’t post your own builds. I just want minor changes that will improve this idea, not a new build.

It seems to me that your build does a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and a lot of nothing.

I’m not sure what the purpose of your build is. You aren’t shatter, bunker or phantasm. Perhaps you should first decide what role you want to play and work from there?

Fizz.8763:

If you don’t want toughness, I’d recommend the sigil of Concentration again. 33% boon duration and only takes up a sigil slot. It’s pretty easy to fit all your quickness moves into the 7 seconds you get

Yours for only 133 gold!

Mohagi.2738:

What about Superior Rune of Durability instead of Leadership?
Was using them on my ele in my zerker armor set and transfered em over to my mesmer.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Durability

They are bugged or tooltip error not sure but they give 25% boon duration and are easier to get?

That sounds like a good alternative actually! Tons easier to get since crystalline ores are so tough to get.

Anyone able to confirm on them giving 25% boon duration instead of 20%?

It would be an entirely uncalled for and unjustified nerf. Instead of timing it to block an attack, you would really have to block attacks accidentally in order to get deja vu off.

You are essentially making a skill that would require some semblance of skill and timing a skill that basically would be “omg please people hit me”, which will never work against skilled opponents.

Not to mention the ramifications in PvE where you sometimes struggle to even get 1 block off.

Terrible and completely unjustified idea, in my opinion.

Nerthus.3592:

Here’s my Druid – Harbard Fjolnir and his faithful raven Muninn
Bit hard in this game to make Druid to actually look like a Druid…now all I need is Nevermore, but it’ll be a loong, looong ‘gold farming journey’ :\

He looks cool!

Kinda reminds me of this guy for some reason:

Posted in the other thread a few weeks back, but here’s Aestria Hawk, my Norn Druid!

So this is the third time (THIRD) that I’ve crashed during the last fight in the Dragon’s Stand meta event, thus missing out on the final rewards and being unable to get the two pets located there.

This is really kittening me the kitten off. Any idea why my client keeps crashing?

I myself was running Cleric trinkets with Magi armour, and Minstrel’s Staff. After figuring out the boss, we seemed to be able to take his phases down rather decently! I suppose most of my squad was zerk/sinister though.

How much healing power do you guys think is appropriate?

I’ve tried my druid in a raid tonight (my guild didnt have any other druids) and I have to say, I love it! I didn’t even notice the solar beam change (constantly had something targeted), and the heals I was able to keep up were amazing! Entering and exiting Astral Form felt natural and counted as weapon swaps so I could take advantage of traits/sigils! I didn’t do any damage (didn’t build for it), but I felt significant in keeping people alive.

Granted, I didn’t make it past the third phase of the first boss, but I have to say I had a ton of fun!

What do you guys think?

Aestria Hawk, my Norn Druid.

This. Kittening this. I hate how my big kitten wings get hidden behind my shield. Also, when you simply go from stowed to wielded, your backpack does a weird thing of following your shield to your hand for a second and then snapping back to place on your back. Strange, to say the least.

Glad I’m not the only one!

So I’ve been spending the past 2 hours in Hearts and Minds and I can’t complete it because of the fact that it has spaghetti coding.

When killing the illusions, about 80% of the time, the reality rifts spawn IN THE SKY. This means that you can’t get to them to activate them, and must thus start over. Screenshots attached.

As if the boss wasn’t frustrating enough? Who test these things honestly?

Hey guys!

So I know dungeons have been nerfed, but I decided to run AC P3 for “fun” with some friends the other day on my Revenant. In the part where you become ghosts, in my experience, all Revenant skills just did not display. My weapon would swing around but my actual character model would be standing still as a log.

Anyone else notice the same thing, or was this a one time bug on my part?

I present to you Feria Hawk, the cute little pixie Revenant! (She looks like a certain light armor class, doesn’t she?)

Yeah I just run signet of inspiration and focus for permanent swiftness. I mean you don’t get crazy high numbers of permanent swiftness, but it’s still permanent t swiftness! Also absolutely loving the straight up 25% movement speed increase from the chronomancer minor trait.

Kageseigi.2150:

DeathReign.7821:

Also! Does anyone have a link for the builds mentioned? Much appreciated! (Sorry for the double post)

You’re welcome!
I edited the first post to include a possible build.

There are actually several variations that can be run depending on how much mobility (Shortbow), Stealth (Dagger/Pistol), or Condi (Pistol/Dagger) you want. Shortbow does give a lot of Bleeding and some Poison if you don’t mind Revealing yourself.

Also, utilities can be interchanged. Ambush adds a distraction and some more direct damage (perhaps some control also). Shadow Trap adds lots of might, more stealth, and an escape option. Shadow Refuge gives long Stealth uptime.

Sigils can be chosen based on preference. You may want higher general Condition Damage instead of longer Bleeding for example.

You could run Carrion if you don’t plan to stay in Stealth the whole time, but that’s getting into a different build altogether.

Awesome! Thanks again! Also, final question, if I may: I noticed that you slotted the human racial elite, and the person in the video you linked also did so. I watched another ghost thief asura who also slotted a racial elite. What’s the purpose of doing so?

Also! Does anyone have a link for the builds mentioned? Much appreciated! (Sorry for the double post)

Taxidriver.2043:

Trapper rune build, the only viable build for thief atm. They can kill u without been seen but only if u stick around to play with them.

Kageseigi.2150:

The Confusion is from Bewildering Ambush.
The Immobilize and some Bleeding is from Needle Trap.
Other Bleeding is from Caltrops.

It my have being a Trapper… perhaps a Ghost Trapper build.

Dire with Trapper Runes.

Video

Ahhh. Great! Thank you guys!

Hello thief forums!

So I was roaming in WvW the other day and went up against a condition thief that literally killed me before they exited stealth. I know it was in part my fault (I only had 1 source of condition clear that required a target), but I was just curious to know what that build actually was! By the time I died, I didn’t even know what their toon looked like; whether it was male or female and much less what race they were.

They were able to constantly stack 5 (or more) stacks of confusion on me (without interrupting, so I don’t think it was runes of perplexity), constantly immobilize and placed caltrops under me that stacked more than 10 stacks of bleeding, all while stealthed and without being revealed!

In my 3+ years of playing (ableit I don’t roam or PvP all that much), I’ve not seen anything like it!

Anyone have any idea what kind of build that was?

Thanks in advance!

Fay.2357:

Arctarius.2649:

Fay.2357:

Arctarius.2649:

To all the players attacking the origional poster and defending Mesmer. Yes Mesmer is broken and insanely OP right now. Yes I play Mesmer, and yes I am admiting a class I play is unfair at the moment because it is. The class almost takes no skill to pull off ludicrous amounts of damage while having some of the best active defenses in guild wars two. Don’t kid yourselves trying to suger coat and pretend the Mesmer is fine… Lol it is far from it. Best Mesmer player in the world even stated they are broken as hell.

Oooh ooh, I can do it too!

Nope, mesmer is perfectly balanced. In fact, it’s never been more balanced, it’s probably the most balanced class in the history of gw2 atm. Don’t kid yourselves and pretend mesmer is op, it’s just a l2p issue.

See what I did there?

Yeah, I saw another person that is happy with playing a class that takes close to no skill to play while dominating others. Good job man, You look awesome!

http://i.imgur.com/axJmn.gifv

Kittening stealing this! Hahahaha man.

Guys… He hasn’t posted a single post after calling Mesmers OP. No supporting arguments, no supporting evidence, nothing. Just a blatant “nerf mesmers plz dey op” post.

Time to ignore the troll and move on, me thinks!

I personally use Illusions over Domination. Only really found like 1 trait to be appealing in Domination dungeon wise.

But I’m a little out of the meta loop so it might not be optimal.

The most fun is when you down someone while you’re Moa’ed. That thing actually hurts!

In all seriousness though, being moa’ed isn’t the worst thing in the world. Like Ross said, you have 2 dodges and a dash to disengage with (and if the mesmer follows you, he’ll be off point too).

ToaLux.6478:

Hey, you!

Yes, iPersona is now baseline. It’s beautiful. I do believe it procs the 3 illusion shatter instead of 2 though. Not totally sure!
Yes, Protected Mantras is also now baseline!

Another major baseline trait to note is iElasticity.
So yea

Oh and the trait changes were listed in a thread in the general discussion section of the forums as well as the patch notes section! That should have all the desired info!

Awesome! Thanks for replying!

Hello there,

I’ve not played GW2 since the trait overhaul and just got back into it. After playing around with my Mesmer, I noticed a few things, and would like to check if these were actually happening:

-IP: Is this permanently active? (Does shattering 2 clones still count as a 3 clone shatter?)
-Protective Mantras: Also permanently active?

Aaaand I’m sure there are more that I was really confused about but can’t seem to remember at the moment. Is there any way to check (a list or something) what hidden effects remain active since the overhaul?

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

The argument when I called you out on your fragile ego was whether or not I was personally attacking you or not. As with most “adult conversations” topics evolve to other topics, and main points get divided into sub-points. Read up on that. Calling you out on having a fragile ego is in direct relation to the argument of whether or not I was personally attacking you. I was not, but you perceived it as an attack, due to your very fragile ego. The list could go on about each and every instance of “ad hominem” you described, but I hope you get the point. Or would you rather I spell it out for you, as I had to most of the conversation for you to keep up?

I’m going to assume that you don’t have many adult conversations. How often do adult conversations start as a discussion, evolve into trading of cute insults, and end in me having to educate you about what an ad hominem is as you clearly misuse it? As with every other question I’ve asked, it seems like I have to guide your through this. The answer is never. Adult conversations have at least a bit of maturity. People who engage in adult conversations also don’t compare them to forum discussions. Lol.

This made me legitimately chuckle. Thanks for that. All this coming from someone who had to have how two opinions are one in the same, just worded differently, literally spelled out for them? I love it.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

My opinion is the same as it was at the start. Staff has its uses (e.g. skipping mobs) in dungeons, and has a decent dps output (iWarlock). It can be used efficiently and will carry your own weight. It is, however, not optimal, and will therefore not be used in elitist groups. If your only concern is whether it will be used in elitist groups, it’s safe to say that you’ve gotten your answer from post one.

Are we really about to go around this for a third time? Do you normally make a point, throw a small tantrum, then make the same point only to repeat the process? Usually, people make a point and then wait for an opportunity to expand or improve said point. I’m going to assume that you just want to get the last word.

You asked me if I knew what I was “arguing” about. I answered this question by stating what my opinion was, and that it hasn’t changed. Don’t blame me for you not being able to link the answer to the question.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

Oh, and as usual, you ignore my rebuttals to your points. Have you actually participated in formal debates before? This tactic of sticking your head in the sand when you can’t address a point is deadly.

I’m choosing to ignore most of your rebuttals because quite frankly, you have yet to make any relevant post after your first one, which itself was kinda lacking. You’re arguing for the sole sake of arguing. Pretty childish in my opinion. This apparently isn’t an ad hominem since, according to you, true statements don’t create fallacy in discussions.

I’ve made plenty of relevant points but you’ve chosen to ignore them because they are relevant. If they really are irrelevant, please point out how so.

I’m not the one standing here saying “let the real mesmers talk”. Do you know how infantile that sounds? The hypocrisy is strong in this one.

Either way, I’ve decided that I’m done with you. You’re quite clearly so obsessed with your own opinions, you don’t care what other’s opinions are. That coupled with your hilariously inflated and fragile ego make for a rather pointless debate.

Your points are so far off focus, and so amusingly inaccurate, but I’ve decided that I don’t care enough about your opinion anymore to address them.

Go ahead and make more self aggrandizing assumptions to make yourself feel better. Knock yourself out. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You will still be an apparent “real” rank 78 mesmer that doesn’t know how to phase dash, doesn’t know how chaos armor works, doesn’t know how to read two same opinions that are worded differently, and doesn’t know how to see past his own ego and opinion.

Have a good day.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

Calling you out on having a fragile ego isn’t ad hominem as it’s true. If your ego wasn’t so easily shattered, you would have actually taken what I said into account; it wasn’t meant as condescending, and that is how you phase dash.

Okay, I’m going to explain to you exactly what an ad hominem is; as you don’t seem to quite grasp the meaning despite crying it out about eight times now.

An ad hominem is an attack on someone’s character to further an argument despite the trait in question being attacked either not having anything to do with the argument, or causing a fallacy.

What was the argument? Staffs in dungeons.
What was the ad hominem? In short: something about being new to Mesmers, PvP, and reading. Also something about egos.

Does any of that—specifically the part about egos—have anything to do with staffs in dungeons? I’ll help you through this one too. No it does not.

Have I answered all of your questions about basic adult debate? I’d hope so. Now let me ask you a final question that hopefully you’ll be able to grasp. Do you even know what you’re arguing about anymore? I’m going to assume the answer is no and that you’re just arguing to make yourself feel better (this is an ad hominem). As I’ve asked before, let the actual Mesmers who want to contribute to relevant discussions about ways to efficiently use a staff in dungeons talk.

The argument when I called you out on your fragile ego was whether or not I was personally attacking you or not. As with most “adult conversations” topics evolve to other topics, and main points get divided into sub-points. Read up on that. Calling you out on having a fragile ego is in direct relation to the argument of whether or not I was personally attacking you. I was not, but you perceived it as an attack, due to your very fragile ego. The list could go on about each and every instance of “ad hominem” you described, but I hope you get the point. Or would you rather I spell it out for you, as I had to most of the conversation for you to keep up?

My opinion is the same as it was at the start. Staff has its uses (e.g. skipping mobs) in dungeons, and has a decent dps output (iWarlock). It can be used efficiently and will carry your own weight. It is, however, not optimal, and will therefore not be used in elitist groups. If your only concern is whether it will be used in elitist groups, it’s safe to say that you’ve gotten your answer from post one.

Oh, and as usual, you ignore my rebuttals to your points. Have you actually participated in formal debates before? This tactic of sticking your head in the sand when you can’t address a point is deadly.

Noah.9654:

You don’t even know what you’re arguing about anymore, do you? You just now agreed with me that staff isn’t optimal in higher tier dungeons, you’ve stated yourself after I had to that staff is bad DPS weapon, and we’ve both come to the conclusion that staff support doesn’t really support the team. Ergo, taking an entire 2 weapon slots to skip trash mobs instead of only taking a utility slot and maybe an elite slot (apparently Time Warp isn’t as important as it used to be) is not a good idea.

DeathReign.7821:

That first example you posted was honestly not meant as any form of ad hominem. I even stated that it wasn’t intended as condescending. Apparently your fragile ego couldn’t handle that, and that’s not my problem.

So are you just trying to prove that you know what an ad hominem is now, or are you just bored?

I never knew you couldn’t swap weapons while in a dungeon. Oh wait…

Calling you out on having a fragile ego isn’t ad hominem as it’s true. If your ego wasn’t so easily shattered, you would have actually taken what I said into account; it wasn’t meant as condescending, and that is how you phase dash.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

Thank you for quoting the relevant parts so I don’t have to on my phone. Pyro says that the iWarlock hits very hard, but does not hit hard enough to make up for the dps loss in the auto attack. I’ve stated that the iWarlocks hit like trucks, but staff will never out-dps a sword/sword or sword/pistol set up. He states that staff has a lot of utility for yourself. I’ve stated how you can use it to skip mobs (utility for yourself). Basically, he says toe-may-toe and I say toe-mah-toe.

I’m far from raging about how you messed up on chaos armor. It’s perfectly fine to not know something. Unless you act like a pompous booty cavity and resort to ad hominem to make yourself feel better.

And we’re back to full-circle for a second time to my original question: how can we make staff viable in dungeons without it being outclassed by other professions or even yourself. In terms of skipping mobs, Blink + MI + Torch 4 (the main skill Mesmers are using to skip mobs in Arah btw) are either better or have father range. I’d rather not use an entire 2 weapon slots just to skip trash mobs; same reason I personally don’t like using torch in Arah. My question on whether or not staff is viable in high tier dungeons has been answered—its not. You seem to keep fighting that.

As for ad hominem, for the love of god, please start using this term correctly XD The first instance of actual ad hominem was

DeathReign.7821:

You don’t go into combat when using phase retreat to skip mobs at all. (This isn’t meant as condescending, but I can tell that you probably don’t do much PvP or WvW as this is a pretty well known tactic in both).

DeathReign.7821:

If you’re really level 78 in PvP, Mesmer must not be your main class, as I find it hard to believe that a Mesmer main with that much experience in PvP doesn’t even know how Chaos Armor works.

This is the finest example of the kettle calling the pot black.

In case you couldn’t tell, this was an intentional ironic example of actual ad hominem.

Thanks for ignoring the fact that I had to almost literally spell out how pyro’s opinion and mine are almost exactly the same.

Blink and MI have no weightage in comparing torch to staff for skipping, as they are utility skills. They are used regardless of what weapons you use. Add decoy to that list. The reason why I would choose staff over torch is because The Prestige has a 40 second cool down. Phase Retreat has a 10 second base cool down. A blink every 10 seconds is in my opinion more useful to skip mobs than a 3 second invisibility every 40 seconds.

That first example you posted was honestly not meant as any form of ad hominem. I even stated that it wasn’t intended as condescending. Apparently your fragile ego couldn’t handle that, and that’s not my problem.

Edit: where have I fought how Staff isn’t used in elitist dungeon groups? I’ve stated from post one that it isn’t optimal. As you’ve quoted I’ve stated that it will never out-dps sword set ups and will therefore never be used in elitist dungeon groups. Please stop spewing nonsense assumptions.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

You are hilarious. Boonshare =/= dps staff. They are different things altogether, and while boonshare is deadweight, the dps the staff brings is not.

DeathReign.7821:

Staff will never out-dps a dual sword or sword/pistol set up, and will therefore never be used in “good dungeon parties”

I’m going to assume that you are not actually reading what you are typing. Take that as you will. I’m also going to assume that you didn’t read what everyone else wrote where they agreed that iWarlock DPS is still relatively terrible compared to the rest of your skills. You should probably stop trying to make staff a DPS weapon. It is not a DPS weapon.

Fay’s opinion:

The primary downside to staff is that the autoattack does close to zero damage in a power build. While the phantasm hits very hard, it doesn’t hit hard enough to offset the total lack of damage from the autoattack. The staff has good utility purposes…. for yourself. It doesn’t really provide much of anything in the way of party utility.

How is this similar to your own? Where exactly are my assumptions? I guess we can both be cute together You’re absolutely welcome to keep raging about how I messed up on Chaos Armor while everyone else discusses things of actual relevance.

Thank you for quoting the relevant parts so I don’t have to on my phone. Pyro says that the iWarlock hits very hard, but does not hit hard enough to make up for the dps loss in the auto attack. I’ve stated that the iWarlocks hit like trucks, but staff will never out-dps a sword/sword or sword/pistol set up. He states that staff has a lot of utility for yourself. I’ve stated how you can use it to skip mobs (utility for yourself). Basically, he says toe-may-toe and I say toe-mah-toe.

I’m far from raging about how you messed up on chaos armor. It’s perfectly fine to not know something. Unless you act like a pompous booty cavity and resort to ad hominem to make yourself feel better.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

Not optimal, but far from useless.

DeathReign.7821:

If you’re talking about a boonshare build in PvE, then you truly are a deadweight since it’s completely redundant. The only important boons in dungeons are might and fury, both of which a might stacking ele provides.

If that isn’t contradictory, I don’t know what is lol. Try again.

DeathReign.7821:

Debaters like you are adorable. You can’t seem to read (I don’t know why I’m surprised since you clearly don’t read your own skills) and formulate your own self aggrandizing conclusions laced with mild ad hominem.

This is, by definition, bootyhurt lol. No contribution to the actual conversation but instead replaced by cute condescending insults? Check. Anger that someone disagrees with your opinion? Check. Bringing my ability to read to what was supposed to be a civil discussion? Check. Instead of adding absolutely nothing but a good laugh to my day, how about you let the actual Mesmers talk? At least Fay and Hamster bring respected dialodge to the discussion :P

You are hilarious. Boonshare =/= dps staff. They are different things altogether, and while boonshare is deadweight, the dps the staff brings is not.

More self aggrandizing assumptions, with more ad hominem. Typical. I find it hilarious how hypocritical you are. “Let the actual mesmers talk”? Coming from a “Mesmer” that doesn’t know how chaos armor works, or how to phase dash? Cute.

Anger that someone disagrees with my opinion? My opinion is just about exactly the same as pyro’s. You just don’t seem to be able to read. Feel free to disagree.

Bottom line is, your self aggrandizing assumptions are exactly that: assumptions. You know what people say about assuming, yes? It makes an kitten out of u and me. More you than me right now.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

If you’re talking about a boonshare build in PvE, then you truly are a “deadweight” since it’s completely redundant. The only important boons in dungeons are might and fury, both of which a might stacking ele provides.

Then you’ve answered my question: staff is a useless weapon in hier tier dungeons. Not sure why you had to get so bootyhurt just to prove yourself wrong :P

Excuse me? Bootyhurt? That’s a rather baseless assumption you have going on there.

Debaters like you are adorable. You can’t seem to read (I don’t know why I’m surprised since you clearly don’t read your own skills) and formulate your own self aggrandizing conclusions laced with mild ad hominem.

Where exactly have I proven myself wrong? I’ve stated from the start that Staff was never optimal, but it is far from useless, as my last statement still states. How is that self contradictory?

If you want to truly have a beneficial discussion, hop off your high horse and actually read what people write, not what you want to read.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

“Arguing” is used very loosely here.

Well that’s a tough pickle to swallow, as “good dungeon parties” basically means “highest DPS parties” in this game. Most of the dungeons are easy and require little to no team co-ordination. If you want to be top DPS, you are limited to the 2-3 weapons or cookie cutter builds that provide that top DPS.

I thought you were looking for ways to utilize staff in dungeon, because, you know, fun, without being a dead-weight. There is a difference between being able to carry your own weight and being optimized into dps.

Staff will never out-dps a dual sword or sword/pistol set up, and will therefore never be used in “good dungeon parties” (read: high dps parties). You can’t make a pig fly no matter how high the window you throw it out of is. That is why no one uses Torch in dungeons either – but at least iWarlock has the potential to hit like a truck unlike the iMage.

If you’re really level 78 in PvP, Mesmer must not be your main class, as I find it hard to believe that a Mesmer main with that much experience in PvP doesn’t even know how Chaos Armor works.

Mesmer is my only class XD I’m guessing you either don’t PvP much or didn’t understand what I was asking. I was asking that in situations where you are stacked tightly, and thus the mob is/should be hitting you as frequent as the rest of the party, if the boons you get from being hit while in chaos armor would proc every time said mob hits the stack. How often are you stacked in PvP? The answer is never XD

While DPS is important in higher tier dungeon parties, that isn’t the only option. There is the support Ele’s give with their might stacking, Guardians and Aegis, etc. That is what I wanted to explore with the staff. If that just isn’t possible, then at least I will have tried.

I’m very curious to what stretch of the imagination that the assumption of it passing on to your stacked allies is considered logical. I’m also amused that a rank 78 Mesmer main doesn’t know how to read his skills, or know how to phase dash. It does make sense that Mesmer is your only class though, since you do have auto targeting on. But I guess that’s why they say high rank =/= skill.

Might stacking eles are still zerk, and deal significant amounts of damage. That isn’t truly considered a “support role”, and if it is, it’s support dps, which is still dps. Aegis can be granted on zerk guardians, which doesn’t affect their dps output.

If you’re talking about a boonshare build in PvE, then you truly are a “deadweight” since it’s completely redundant. The only important boons in dungeons are might and fury, both of which a might stacking ele provides.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

Noah.9654:

I run with my guildies, but I don’t want to be carried. The main reason staff is kinda bad IMO is that condis aren’t as powerful in PvE as they are in PvP. In a phantasm build, how are you going to rack up enough condis quickly enough for iWarlock to deal significant damage? And why use that over iSwordsmen or iWarden? That’s the mindset I have while I try to find other ways to make staff useful.

Skipping mobs with Phase Retreat seems like an excellent idea though! Would there be a way to do this without putting yourself in combat? You have to leave a clone if you wanna retreat forward unless you do that retreat turn maneuver and the clone will attack/aggro the mobs.

Side note: Does anyone know if Chaos Armor surrounds everyone in your party if you are stacked close enough? If the entire party is in your armor, will enemies have to hit the chaos armor to hit them? That would be useful if true.

Vulnerability, bleeding, weakness and burning are common conditions that are applied regardless of build. Chaos storm does significant direct damage, and applies many unique conditions (chill, poison, etc) that add damage to your iWarlocks. In specific situations, you can position your iWarlocks, while you can’t your iSwordsmen. iWarlocks will without a doubt deal more damage than iWarden, so if you know that there will be nothing to reflect, it’ll be less of a crutch than the iWarden. Like I said, it’s not optimal, but it is definitely not useless.

You don’t go into combat when using phase retreat to skip mobs at all. (This isn’t meant as condescending, but I can tell that you probably don’t do much PvP or WvW as this is a pretty well known tactic in both). Switch off auto-targetting, and assign about-face a hotkey. About face, phase retreat, and about face again. It will take a bit of practice, but once you’re able to make this a smooth motion, you’ll be, as some people call it, phase dashing through dungeons like a pro.

If by Chaos Armor you mean Staff #4, no, it’s a single target ability (meaning only applied to yourself). I don’t quite understand what you mean in the last part of your sentence.

If you were to put a Chaos Field on the ground and someone blasted it, your entire party (limit of 5 of course) will get Chaos Armor. But this isn’t exactly very useful in dungeons – groups would rather blast fire fields for might stacks.

I think we’re arguing about different things here. I’m not saying that staff is a useless weapon (I’m rank 78 in PvP btw), I’m saying that I want to find a way to use staff that is both viable in good dungeon parties and isn’t outclassed by other weapon choices or professions.

In terms of damage, iSwordsmen does more immediate damage than iWarlock as you don’t have to rack up different conditions first. Even iDuelist does more immediate DPS and, as you said, bleed is a condition that can easily be applied anyway. iDuelist can also be positioned and you have a better AA with sword. With all this, its safe to say that staff, and iWarlock with it, isn’t the best DPS weapon for dungeons.

This means we need to for other ways that it can be useful. Thank you for clearing up the chaos armor question. I didn’t know how to properly word the question but you figured it out.

“Arguing” is used very loosely here.

Well that’s a tough pickle to swallow, as “good dungeon parties” basically means “highest DPS parties” in this game. Most of the dungeons are easy and require little to no team co-ordination. If you want to be top DPS, you are limited to the 2-3 weapons or cookie cutter builds that provide that top DPS.

I thought you were looking for ways to utilize staff in dungeon, because, you know, fun, without being a dead-weight. There is a difference between being able to carry your own weight and being optimized into dps.

Staff will never out-dps a dual sword or sword/pistol set up, and will therefore never be used in “good dungeon parties” (read: high dps parties). You can’t make a pig fly no matter how high the window you throw it out of is. That is why no one uses Torch in dungeons either – but at least iWarlock has the potential to hit like a truck unlike the iMage.

If you’re really level 78 in PvP, Mesmer must not be your main class, as I find it hard to believe that a Mesmer main with that much experience in PvP doesn’t even know how Chaos Armor works.

Noah.9654:

DeathReign.7821:

I find it hilarious when people say staff is useless for dungeons. If you’re running with an elitist group anyway, go roll a warrior or ele instead.

In a phantasm build, iWarlocks hit like single target trucks (averaging 8k crits in CoF).

Skipping mobs in Arah? Phase Retreat your way through. You suddenly don’t feel like the slowest class in the game with no speed signet and no constant access to swiftness outside of your focus.

Not optimal, but far from useless.

I run with my guildies, but I don’t want to be carried. The main reason staff is kinda bad IMO is that condis aren’t as powerful in PvE as they are in PvP. In a phantasm build, how are you going to rack up enough condis quickly enough for iWarlock to deal significant damage? And why use that over iSwordsmen or iWarden? That’s the mindset I have while I try to find other ways to make staff useful.

Skipping mobs with Phase Retreat seems like an excellent idea though! Would there be a way to do this without putting yourself in combat? You have to leave a clone if you wanna retreat forward unless you do that retreat turn maneuver and the clone will attack/aggro the mobs.

Side note: Does anyone know if Chaos Armor surrounds everyone in your party if you are stacked close enough? If the entire party is in your armor, will enemies have to hit the chaos armor to hit them? That would be useful if true.

Vulnerability, bleeding, weakness and burning are common conditions that are applied regardless of build. Chaos storm does significant direct damage, and applies many unique conditions (chill, poison, etc) that add damage to your iWarlocks. In specific situations, you can position your iWarlocks, while you can’t your iSwordsmen. iWarlocks will without a doubt deal more damage than iWarden, so if you know that there will be nothing to reflect, it’ll be less of a crutch than the iWarden. Like I said, it’s not optimal, but it is definitely not useless.

You don’t go into combat when using phase retreat to skip mobs at all. (This isn’t meant as condescending, but I can tell that you probably don’t do much PvP or WvW as this is a pretty well known tactic in both). Switch off auto-targetting, and assign about-face a hotkey. About face, phase retreat, and about face again. It will take a bit of practice, but once you’re able to make this a smooth motion, you’ll be, as some people call it, phase dashing through dungeons like a pro.

If by Chaos Armor you mean Staff #4, no, it’s a single target ability (meaning only applied to yourself). I don’t quite understand what you mean in the last part of your sentence.

If you were to put a Chaos Field on the ground and someone blasted it, your entire party (limit of 5 of course) will get Chaos Armor. But this isn’t exactly very useful in dungeons – groups would rather blast fire fields for might stacks.

I find it hilarious when people say staff is useless for dungeons. If you’re running with an elitist group anyway, go roll a warrior or ele instead.

In a phantasm build, iWarlocks hit like single target trucks (averaging 8k crits in CoF).

Skipping mobs in Arah? Phase Retreat your way through. You suddenly don’t feel like the slowest class in the game with no speed signet and no constant access to swiftness outside of your focus.

Not optimal, but far from useless.

Ramp Up
30s CD

Your next shatter within 20 seconds deals 1.5/2/3 times the normal effect (based on how many clones shattered).

Mind Wrack deals more damage.
Confusing Cry deals more damage and stacks more confusion stacks.
Diversion has increased daze duration.
Distortion has increased distortion duration.

Well, a start would be to link exactly what build you are running on a build editor like this one. Currently, the popular condition builds are condition shatter, interrupt, and PU (Prismatic Understanding). PU is great for WvW, especially if you’re roaming solo, as it gives you the ability to fight outnumbered fights. Though, the main gear type that condition Mesmers use is Rabid gear, and not Dire, due to the trait “Sharper Illusions”, so you might want to start working towards obtaining a set. You can get a full set of Rabid armor from dungeons such as Twilight Arbor.

I take it that you are still doing open world PvE content and leveling up with heart quests?

My advice would be to just play the game however you want – explore the mechanics of the Mesmer class. Once you’ve got more experience, you can decide what you like and how you like to play and then build from there. Optimizing a build is the same as fine-tuning a car. You need a car before you can fine-tune it.

There is a list of builds and guides here that you can browse at your leisure to increase your knowledge of the class. Once you have knowledge of the class, you can decide on what you like/don’t like and formulate a build from there.

As far as I can recall, after calculations, a full assassin’s set will slightly out-damage a full zerker set. It’s something minuscule like 1-2% but it’s still there.

At least, that’s the last I’ve heard of it, but this was before they changed crit damage to ferocity, so I’m not sure if that has changed that statistic at all. Either way, zerker and assassins are relatively on par in terms of damage.

If you’re playing open world, it really doesn’t matter what gear you have. I would suggest getting a full zerk or full assassin’s set, however, as since it doesn’t matter what you use in open world anyway, if for some reason you decide to do a speed run dungeon, you will still be able to. This way, you won’t be burning that bridge for yourself.

Courtyard trick won’t work, and here’s why: you get “nudged” (an actual condition is placed on you for a few seconds) out of the base after a few seconds (I’m assuming 20-30 seconds).

I am unsure, however, of what happens when you place a portal in base right before being nudged out and try to re-enter the base with the “nudge” buff on you.

messiah.1908:

DeathReign.7821:

Shadelang.3012:

When you see someone else is fighting someone and you just want to kitten that 1v1 over as hard as you can this is a good way to do it. Atleast that is how it feels on the receiving. As I said. Im not a mesmer. But atleast I know what its like to get wacked by it at the worst possible moment.

Problem with that though is that the traditional power shatter Mesmer will out-perform MTD easily. If a power shatter Mesmer manages to sneak up and burst someone already engaged in a fight, 80% of the time it’ll result in a kill.

Sneaking up on someone with MTD may stack a lot of conditions on them, but the way conditions work, they have a chance to cleanse it, and negate all of your damage.

TL; DR: Sneaking up on someone engaged in a fight goes hand in hand with burst. Conditions, by nature are not as effective as power spikes as a form of burst. “Omgwtfbbq I’m dead” is what you’re looking for.

why ppl still playing the mtd shatter like power shatter. if so play power shatter which is by far more appropriate.
condi shatter as i see it should hold point far or home as he can handle 1v1 nicely better than power shatter without having to run away from the cap.
also in 1v2 he can handle few seconds until thief or power shatter mesmer come to help him
also he is better in group situation while bursting on the cap point with boon stripping and condi aoe bursting which end in 2 ways:
1. the enemy group used all its condi cleanse and boons too early giving your team the upper hand
2. if the enemy group wouldn’t have died they moved away from the cap point as they cant handle the condi aoe pressure

while power shatter will just burst from range and target periphery enemy to burst as he cant handle the cap middle aoe pressure

so 2 different play style and role

mtd shatter build should be compare to other condi spec like ranger, necro and engi
necro is not so much preform in the high pvp arena while engi bit more and some ranger condi build lately have been seen in the high pvp arena

now which is better ?
engi with his kd mostly and hp regen is better point holder but his condi pressure is bit less the the mtd in group fight
ranger – good in 1v1 but cant perform like the mtd in 1v2 or point holder or group fight
necro – great cc with fear so 1v1 might be better but in group support the mtd perform better (or should at least)
mtd is good counter to guardian and ele with his boon stripping and harassing

I’m inclined to agree with you – my point was referring to the whole “if you catch me in a pinch” point that was brought up.

StickerHappy.8052:

DeathReign.7821:

Hey StickerHappy,

I’ve been away from the game for a while, but recently came back to try an old build that I posted months and months ago (with some tweaks).

Here it is.

It’s a Phantasm/Mantra build, with a focus on sustained fights, rather than burst which you are used to as a shatter Mesmer, I’m sure.

It’s done the trick for me, but I was wondering what others would think about it.

Let me know what you think!

I’ll try this one too, out of curiosity, why cele amy? if your thinking about the Healing Power for Restorative Mantras, Even with 0 healing power it will still heal for about approximately 2.6k.

Aye, it’s a minuscule increase in terms of healing.

I’ve got a thread of justifications here.

And how I justified Celestial Amulet is:

DeathReign.7821:

• Celestial Amulet: I’ve recently started running the Celestial Amulet with this build. Now I know that there have been countless debates on how Celestial Amulets don’t work on Mesmers due to the fact that unlike Elementalists, Mesmers don’t have constant access to high stacks of might. After a fair amount of tests (still on-going), I’ve decided that with this build, you don’t need high stacks of might to still be able to dish out tons of damage. This is due to the fact that your damage output comes from your phantasms instead of your actual Mesmer. While Might does affect your phantasms somewhat, the effect if severely diminished, especially when compared to how any other class benefits from it.
  Furthermore, neither phantasm builds nor mantra builds are played as burst builds. Combining the two creates a more sustained dps output build. The Celestial Stat spread therefore benefits this build in all aspects; the defensive stats are pretty self explanatory – for more survivability and sustain. While the power is reduced, your phantasms will still hit like trucks due to all the phantasm boosting traits we’ve selected. Condition damage comes into play due to the fact that we’re using the iDuelist and iZerker; both of which are multi-hit phantasms. With permanent fury and Lyssa runes, they will be critting quite a bit, applying high stacks of bleed due to Sharper Images. Try it out, you’ll be surprised.

Hey StickerHappy,

I’ve been away from the game for a while, but recently came back to try an old build that I posted months and months ago (with some tweaks).

Here it is.

It’s a Phantasm/Mantra build, with a focus on sustained fights, rather than burst which you are used to as a shatter Mesmer, I’m sure.

It’s done the trick for me, but I was wondering what others would think about it.

Let me know what you think!

Shadelang.3012:

When you see someone else is fighting someone and you just want to kitten that 1v1 over as hard as you can this is a good way to do it. Atleast that is how it feels on the receiving. As I said. Im not a mesmer. But atleast I know what its like to get wacked by it at the worst possible moment.

Problem with that though is that the traditional power shatter Mesmer will out-perform MTD easily. If a power shatter Mesmer manages to sneak up and burst someone already engaged in a fight, 80% of the time it’ll result in a kill.

Sneaking up on someone with MTD may stack a lot of conditions on them, but the way conditions work, they have a chance to cleanse it, and negate all of your damage.

TL; DR: Sneaking up on someone engaged in a fight goes hand in hand with burst. Conditions, by nature are not as effective as power spikes as a form of burst. “Omgwtfbbq I’m dead” is what you’re looking for.

Moa is so overestimated it’s actually hilarious.

I’m guessing this is a secret undercover rage thread because someone used Moa on you and you panicked and died.

Literally everytime I get moa’ed (not that many) I manage to get away. Or kill the Mesmer while in Moa form. Seriously. It actually gives you a gap opener to get away.

If you took the time to actually read the skills and figure out how to use them, you will come to find that Moa has far too long a cool down for what it actually does. And not to mention the cast time on that thing. You can dodge it, so if it gimps you so much, do so.

Moa form is only good when you can sync cc and burst with your teammates.

Confusing players into thinking that you’re a clone only works against people who are new to PvP and have never played a Mesmer themselves.

There are SO many ways to tell the real Mesmer from the illusions, and most of them don’t even involve looking at what the Mesmer is actually doing. (Although if you see it dodge or cast anything other than an auto attack you know it’s the real one).

Chances are, if your opponent is having a hard time finding the real Mesmer, what you actually do doesn’t really matter that much.

Having said that though, if you DO want to act like a clone, take two steps towards your enemy and autoattack. Don’t strafe, don’t keep moving. Literally stop and auto attack. That’s what a clone does. Don’t walk while attacking either, for clones simply don’t do that.