Guild Wars 2

Azo.5860:

@dhamyr.. so would u take more than 2 mesmers in your group rather than guardians wars eles necros.. thats the point i would like see that change..

Nope, I wouldn’t take a bunch of mesmers. However, I would much rather BE a mesmer that single handedly makes a difference in a fight than one of the many warriors/guardians/whatever that have to run in the zergball. A warrior alone doesn’t make much of an impact (like a mesmer does), you need a group of them – a hammer train with one hammer isn’t all that scary. To me, that’s an important distinction.

Bern.9613:

I don’t know how TC is following and hitting cloaked thieves/mesmers but I’m calling you out on it.

Don’t be predictable and you won’t eat a faceful of ouch.

DirtyBird.6093:

This is pretty much the truth. To all those cool kids saying they’re the bomb by being the baddest mesmer out there, good for you. I command, and have all 8 characters at 80 and know how to play them well. Mesmers really are left as a commander’s batman utility belt at the moment. Granted, a skilled mesmer is invaluable, but in current meta of zerg fights, a skilled mesmer is one who knows when to veil properly, and knows where to be to place those crucial portals. Its not that mesmers are bad par say, its that guardians, necros, eles, warriors are much much better.

I agree with this statement… however, as a counterpoint IMHO, out of your list of guardians, necros, eles, warriors, etc, mesmers are really the main class who can single handedly turn the tide of a ZvZ encounter. A well placed portal, or veil juke, or null field to strip stability is priceless. We’re depended on for our utilities because our utilities bring that much to the fight.

To the folks who want/need to tag tons of ppl or see big damage numbers spamming your screen, roll a warrior/ele/necro/etc. For me, the thing is knowing that there’s a good chance that my guild group will win most if not all of our encounters in large part because I play well and give our entire group a huge advantage. Having a strategic contribution to a fight is (again IMHO) tons more important than some big AOE numbers.

selan.8354:

well yes if u like being support..but i dont like being support only! i find healer classes boring! i wanna be able to push with the zerg and do decent dmg, not standing in the backline and veil/tw/ nullfield the op kitten warriors/guardian trains!

seriously im tired of being a veilbot! i never played support classes or healers. and i never will. i refuse to! i dont mind supporting and getting decent dps or tagging with it, but simply being used for 3 utilities is not what i want. anet stated clearly that they dont want to have healers/dps/tank, but with the balance disaster called spvp, thats where we are heading.

i think the main problem is that a lot of our dps comes from ai! clones die too quick so our shatter aoe and all the good stuff that comes out of that(removing conditions, adding conditions and all that). also phantasms will maybe hit once if u are lucky, but are affected by cc and everything and retal will be a problem too. i went back to glam with perplexity. in still pretty weak with it, but at least i get a few lootbags for tagging.

when glamour was still strong, i had fun at least.now its a grind.
@ all commanders out there: u know what: walk your kitten golems yourself and no i wont bring veil or portal! im not your servant! (signed: veilbot on strike ;-) )

Hmmmmm… what I got out of that is that you don’t want to do any of the things a mesmer is good at. In a ZvZ scenario, I want my group to win, and the things I bring to the fight (boon ripping, AOE confusion, interrupts, veil, etc) all make a huge difference in whether we win or lose. If you count success by big numbers and loot bags, I can definitely see your point. For me, I see success as being waist deep in the dead bodies of my opponents on the WvW battlefield, with my guild group alive – and the tools I bring to that fight definitely help us do exactly that.

Bunda.2691:

Yeah, I find our zerg v zerg options to be particularly limited in the current meta, and our roles reduced to the following three options:

1. Rear-line dps w/ greatsword. Problem is that dps isn’t great, and we’re pretty much only good at picking off stragglers or those that stray from the hammer train.

2. Utility support. Constant supplier of veils, portals, null fields, chaos storms, feedback, reflects, etc.

3. Boon stripping, as discussed above, and vulnerability applying. Constant shattering with boon strip on shatter, combined with null field and glamours.

I think you’re pretty much spot on here, but most other classes have similar pigeon hole problems. Take an ele, for example – their roles tend to be reduced to two; staff ele for fields, and DD ele as tertiary DPS of stragglers/outliers (I don’t have an ele so I may be mistaken, but these are the roles I’ve seen eles mostly fill). I’d be willing to bet that other classes face similar dilemmas.

Bottom line, I don’t think we’re unique with this problem of role limitations in ZvZ scenarios.

Pretty sure Mind Stab is the GS3 ability, that’s where I got confused. I got Mind Spike (sword auto) and mind stab mixed up. Sorry, didn’t mean to derail your post with my bad info. You are indeed correct on sword autos being buffed.

Even people who play mesmer mains get confused by mesmers! LOL

Shtos Vant.4182:

When Zergs are 30+, it just starts to be a train of auto-attacking. (Skill Lag issues).
Also, you sometimes run into Zombie Trains where the larger zerg can self-rez enough to never really shrink.
I’ve been running a PVT build with Sword-Torch/Staff to chase and finish players that stray out of the group, with occasional dives through the zerg with chaos storm. (Thankfully the new Superior Rune of the Traveler came along).
My opinion is that staying alive to help in your group is equally important to killing opponents. But then, my little server of Kaineng is usually outnumbered 3-1.
I really like Dhampyr’s idea with GS/Staff, I’ll be giving it a go soon. Crippling people can create opportunities to finish players off as well.

First off, /cheer Kaineng! That’s where I started, back at the T8 dark days. LOL

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-WvW-Condition-Havoc/first#post2800642

If you’re interested in the build I mentioned, I did a more in-depth write up at the above post. Would love any feedback/criticism!

I think I’m confused. The way I understood it, GS#3 was what ANet buffed, not the 1H sword auto attack…?

This topic is a great one. From my standpoint, mesmers need to focus less on AOE big numbers and more on what we bring to the team. For me in my WvW guild group, I run staff/GS, 20/0/20/0/30. The main zerg busting traits that I take is the 20 point Dom trait that strips boons on shatter (forget the name of it atm), and Imbued Diversions (30 point Illusions trait).

Mesmers are great at AOE boon ripping, and the way I open on a group is this:

Start with GS, spawn iZerker and Mirror blade clone in the middle of the group, immediately shatter and toss down a null field. Between the null field and the boon ripping shatter, more often than not I’ll end up stripping their stability, and that really hurts any organized group.

Swap to staff, toss down chaos storm. With perplexity runes, the interrupts from that can be troublesome for opponents.

After that, I auto attack with staff for a bit until I feel that the GS CDs are up, swap back, and rip more boons, preferably using an F3 shatter for more AOE interrupts.

While mesmers aren’t incredibly strong directly in large groups, we do have the ability to make a large contribution to the fight.

If you read the OP, you’d see that he talks of hitting people – for me, that doesn’t imply PvE. The second post talks of PvP as well, and so does mine. From what I see, you’re the only one here talking about PvE…?

And I would agree with your assessment. This is like pulling teeth.

colesy.8490:

If you’d actually spend five seconds evaluating the weapon, or even reading my posts you’d see why it’s weak.

Responding to posts in this forum is like pulling teeth.

Not everyone in this game only fights computer algorithms, dude. I know you enjoy killing your PvE bosses, and more power to you if that’s what you like. For me, I like fighting things that think just like I do. And for that, the GS works great.

Quit being narrow minded and assuming that what you like to do in the game is the only thing that’s important.

IMHO, the GS definitely has its place. For ranged fights, you can’t beakitten and on top of thakittens phantasms and clones spawn on the target – great for ranged shatters. I’m a fan, and I run GS/staff when I’m running with my guild group in WvW.

I know there are folks that don’t like the GS, and that’s fine. The great thing about GW2 is that many different weapon sets and builds work well enough to be viable in the game, at least in my opinion.

/cheer GS!

The duration number I shoot for with the staff is 76% – that gives two ticks of the staff burns, instead of just the one tick you generally get. Also, since your staff clones also get the two ticks of burn as well, it generally means very close to continual re-application of burns. For me, this is important because the constant re-application of burns will overwhelm most sorts of condition clear, and then just re-apply more burns.

Edit – as for the question posed in the OP – afaik, there aren’t any weapons or armor with those stat combos.

WvW Havoc Squad Condition Build

Hey all! So, this is my first official build post, and although I’d like to claim it’s completely original and my idea, most of this build comes from a Frankenstein accumulation of everything I’ve ever read on these forums – so, up front, I’d like to thank you guys for this build that works great for me!

Before I post the build, I should emphasize that the build is designed for WvW Havoc roaming (5-10 folks) – it gives enough punch to work well 1v1, and it has some additional fun stuff built in for when your camp busting squad finds a zerg coming in fast.

The build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJAWRlwzipHWTqGb9IhJFEH5oeg9szdSKUNrB-j0BB4MQYNA00AkIQZSFRjtsuIasKZER1SBAz0I-w

20/0/20/0/30

Domination (III, VII) –

(III) Having illusions do more damage is always good, and even with 30 in the illusions line, this build isn’t really meant for continuous shatters. Plus, in WvW anyway, I find that my clones really don’t live long enough for reliable shatters anyway.

(VII) – Shatters remove boons on hit. Stability is always a pesky thing – it messes with my group’s DPS bombs, so having multiple ways to strip stability prior to the initial impact is a good thing. With the Greatsword, the phantasm and mirror blade clone spawn right in the middle of their group, so a quick mind wrack will strip some boons from the group.

Chaos (III, X) –

(III) For me, mobility is king – I rarely stay in the middle of my havoc group and tend to harass adversary outliers (such as staff eles, etc). However, with a lack of condi clears, I need to be able to bounce into the group pretty much on demand for AOE heals/condi clears. Shorter blinks are key for that.

(X) The staff is my main weapon – shorter CDs on all five skills is awesome for me.

Illusions (III, VII, XII) –

(III) Like I said above, I don’t shatter too much with this build – having lots of staff clones out works great for spreading the condi love around. Having extra damage because I tend to keep clones out is, IMO, the best choice of a bunch of not-so-good choices.

(VII) Between Mirror Blade on the GS and Winds of Chaos on the Staff, having extra bounces helps a lot.

(XII) – AOE diversion shatters has the potential to interrupt a bunch of folks in a group. Between Chaos Storm, iWave on the GS, and F3 shatters, you’re an AOE interrupting machine. With the Runes of Perplexity, that’s a bunch of swirly purple numbers that kill folks.

Gear

For my gear choices, I went with Dire stats, since precision is pretty much wasted with this build. Runes of Perplexity x 6.

A key component of the build is my staff – I have a Giver’s staff with a Sigil of Malice, giving the staff a 16% Condi duration boost. With food (+40% condi duration), the Dom line (20% condi duration), and the staff, I hit a magical total of 76% condi duration – which means my staff burns all get two ticks instead of one. It’s a huge uptick in damage, and condi clears really don’t help opponents out much since the burn is such a short duration and nearly constantly re-applied.

Utilities

Ether Feast – Biggest heal, ‘nuff said.

Blink – already explained above.

Veil – either helps my havoc group with strategic positioning, or helps us disengage from a bad situation.

Null Field – another initial use utility to attempt to get rid of that pesky stability in an opposing group.

Summary

Looking forward to comments/input – I’m sure I haven’t addressed everything in this build post, so feel free to ask questions!

Same stats as the Dire armor – if you search that, same answers/suggestions.

Interested in your testing! I frequently will see 11 stacks of confusion off one CI cast, it’s pretty nice.

I don’t think CI interrupts – what I’m betting you’re seeing is the 3-stack “on hit” confusion proc along with an iMage attack for another three stacks. Just guessing, but I see that combo proc fairly often.

The light version is “Jatoro’s” or something like that. Not sure about heavy.

Also, the CoE dungeon armor has all three sets with Dire stats.

In WvW, I find that my clones frequently get insta-gibbed, and they don’t end up stacking bleeds much at all. I’ve ended up sacrificing the dueling line for Dom, for Condi duration (looking for two second burns with the staff). For my build, the Dire set will be great – extra Vit is always welcome, and I’m only sacrificing the precision from rabid, something I don’t think I’ll miss much.

CptWheezy.6439:

I get it though – so I’m not mad at ya or anything. If I kept getting my hind quarters handed to me over and over, I’d probably run into the safety of spawn or a blob of friendly faces too. So I don’t blame you at all. I guess it just 50/50 on how you react after getting rolled, fight or flight, and man can you guys fly.

:-)

I get it too, I think. If I kept getting my hind quarters handed to me in game, I’d probably come on the forums and thump chest too.

Any chance you could make a link to ads to the video? Would love to check out your build, just can’t get to YouTube atm.

This is a fantastic idea! Would love to take part.

Name: Eve Morrow
Server: Tarnished Coast
Role: Scholar
Playstyle: Almost exclusively WvW – I do some guild missions and dailies, but that’s about the extent of my PvE forays.
Usually Play: NA Pacific time mostly, but I’m pretty flexible.

I currently run condition-shatter with the Perplexity runes – works pretty well. My build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8alwzipXUzmGb9IiJFEHyh6x1ldfXJF82FC-jkxA4MBZaBMJKQ5wioxWNLiGrSmIqGA-w

Personally, I like it – spread quite a bit of condition love to opponents in WvW, works great for me in groups (get a bunch of tags/kills), and has ok burst to put pressure on folks in a 1v1 scenario. Confusion is getting me kills again – love love love all the swirly pink numbers!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/List-Find-your-Mesmer-Build-Guides/first

Take your pick. Really depends on what you like to do and how you like to play.

JborgStryker.6527:

Yes so far here in EB the fights are awesome…. Yes… but I just dont understand why Anet does the matchups the way they do… It makes no sort of sense whatsoever…. Why would Anet switch the match-up back when it was Kain/CD/Yaks… and It litterally came down to the last day in PPT to determine the winner…. That is an exciting matchup. Yet Here I am in another week facing FA/TC with absolutely no chance to win overall. Yeah the fights here in EB have been awesome so far… and TC/FA have ran away from us half the time.

We’re definitely not running away from you. We’re running toward FA. You’re just behind us when we do.

Well, FA loves to fight TC and vice versa. Perhaps your backside will feel better this week? ;-)

/cheer FA, good to finally see you guys again!

CD, sorry that some of you aren’t happy with the matchup – I think having an outlook like Maguuma might help. Play for the fights, not the score. Maguuma was a ton of fun to fight against, especially their roamers. Probably some of the best in the game.

lujate.5432:

Helios,
I didn’t mean that in a bad way. Typical==Popular

Dhampyr,
OMG! I can’t believe I never saw that before. Stealth is probably why I’ve never done much with Torch.

I’ve been playing Mesmer since BWE1, most of it with GS & Sword. I’m looking to leave behind those familiar weapons and try something different. I came up with Staff, Scepter and Torch as my least used weapons.

Most shatter builds use Sword, so I thought condition. Looking at condition builds, most of them use stealth, which I’ve never really been found of. Guess I could try it yet again, or maybe something with Pistol…

You’re right, many condi builds use stealth, mainly because (for mesmers anyway), conditions kill slower. Therefore, you tend to need more focus on survival stuff, where stealth shines.

I mean, even on my non-stealth focused build, I still carry decoy and mass invis on my bar when I’m roaming in WvW.

Also, I should probably qualify all of my posts – pretty much all I do is WvW, so that tends to be my perspective.

Huh, blink breaks stealth? I didn’t think it did – matter of fact, I tend to blink in stealth for just that reason. Really helps juke folks in WvW.

lujate.5432:

Dhampyr,
Thanks, but I am also trying to get away from Sword (which is why I’m not looking at shatter builds). The 10 pts in Illusions looks interesting though.

Helios,
Unless i missed something, that looks like a typical PU stealth build.

Appreciate the feedback. If you don’t like sword, since the build I posted above is a condi build, scepter works with it just fine as well. Torment hits like a truck with this gear, and scepter #3 (when you can get the entire channel in) does pretty good dmg as well.

Still, if you don’t like a shatter build, the build I posted likely won’t work for you no matter what – with 30pts in illusions, it’s just a huge damage loss not to shatter.

Good luck!

Edit – also, I think it’d help if you specified what you’re looking for a bit better. For example, you say you don’t like stealth but would like to use torch. AFAIK, the only reason anyone uses torch is for the stealth.

Xirin.8593:

Science.6709:

Hey guys what’s the score?

PvF Score:

Maguuma: 210k
Dragonbrand: 175k
Tarnished Coast: 90k
Aggression: 13k

Well, up until the last few pages, I was going to dispute this score. Magswag has been decidedly absent in the thread, with all the other drama going on. However, with the jimmie rustling discussion, I can tell you guys definitely haven’t lost it and have taken the lead once again.

+1.

To get back to the OP’s question on different condi builds, I run condition-shatter:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8alwzipXUzmGb9IiJFEHyh6x1ldfXJF82FC-jkxA4MBZaBMJKQ5wioxWNLiGrSmIqGA-w

The build editor isn’t quite finished (didn’t bother putting food in or whatever), and I also run the Perplexity runes (vice Undead as shown in the editor). With the runes and confusion on all shatters, confusion stacks to where it’s a relevant source of damage again. Plus, I find that the burst that I can get, while not quite as intense as a glass cannon shatter build, is still quite high – and you tend to leave behind meaningful conditions after your burst to continue the damage. On top of that, you have much more toughness than a zerker shatter mesmer, meaning you can survive longer if caught in a bad spot.

All in all, it’s quite a bit of fun for me, and since you were asking about non-stealth based condi builds, thought I’d toss this one up there.

Ah, I missed that part – and I’m assuming you mean torment? All I can think is what you already mentioned – the condi clear in stealth got rid of it.

And agree completely, block should reveal the stealthed person.

AFAIK, it’s doing damage that causes revealed – so if you blocked the attacks, the thief wasn’t doing damage and wouldn’t get revealed. I think it’s the same when we summon phantasms from stealth – I’m not entirely sure (since I do it in WvW when everything is chaos anyway), but the phant summon (and its subsequent damage caused by its attack) doesn’t break my stealth either.

Evalana.5480:

Dragonbrand is so angry lately….. so if I pop into the DB TS and try to strike up a convo with people there that are my friends and that I used to fight alongside with, will I be labeled a spy too? (Like I was by the several members of the Blood Pact guild when I had returned to DB the 2nd time…?) And then get banned too?

Take off the tinfoil hats and try taking the game less srs… gawsh.

::edit::

I still hang out in the TC mumble with my DIS friends/guildies that I pve with… Ermagerd spai!

You should come hang out in the KH channel. We have fun with spies in the channel – matter of fact, we were awarded the 2013 “Most Fun Channel To Be A Spy In” award, given by the spy himself.

On a serious note, hanging out with friends is one thing, but talking over a commander who is commanding in WvW isn’t really good sportsmanship and lacks a bit of class, if it did indeed happen like that.

Halo.8976:

Dhampyr.2104:

Yawn.

Tier 9 post.

Tier 8, actually. That’s where my roots are.

Yawn again.

nytehex.3267:

What is really sad is TC and DB can’t hold a candle to maguuma guilds or pugs. I’ve seen this firsthand. Your roamers get their kitten kicked and call in the Zerg to kill them. If both servers didn’t have night coverage and the odds were even, TC and DB are worse than servers 3-4 tiers under them. I’ve had better fights against the old anvil rock. Sad really

Yawn.

Discounting Into The Void is a mistake as well, IMHO. Magic Bullet and ITV both have their uses, and both focus and pistol are great off hand weapons.

Having a potential AOE interrupt is a pretty powerful thing against groups, and the CD is similar to Magic Bullet as well.

Furiousbeard.7602:

I want to trade spots with Maguuma

Agreed. WTB FA.

Are the new runes great for mesmers? Yep, they sure are. Watching purple numbers melting folks in WvW is an awesome feeling again.

I swear, every single post against the runes ALWAYS points out that “they work better for this other class because…”

And, my friends, that’s whining. Focus on whether ANet did us a favor – which they did IMHO. Did they make condi mesmer more viable with these runes? Yes, they did.

If we’re going to complain about the runes, we should complain about how they’re bad and broken for mesmer (which I haven’t seen in a single post). This isn’t the warrior/ranger/thief/whatever forums.

selan.8354:

feedback glam has to be traited, ideally with bb aswell, but our interrupts arent as spamable as a warriors. a warrior is the king of interrupts with his stun spams if speced right. the problem is the 5 stacks of confusion on interrupts for 10-15 secs. its not 3 stacks its 9 per interrupt=easy 25 ….and mesmers do not really have stability, but yes with nullfield we can remove that.

Feedback doesn’t have to be traited for what he’s talking here – with a traited duelist shooting into the feedback, you get 8 x stacks.

Again, these runes are great for condi mesmers (they’ll be even better when they fix the duration bug lol). Personally, I don’t really care if someone else finds use in them too. xD

oZii.2864:

snip

+1. Great post. While classes can get a bunch of stacks through interrupts with this rune set, it’s extremely situational and depends on the opponent doing something (i.e. spamming abilities) in order for it to work. In group play in WvW, for example, stability will negate the interrupt damage – greatly reducing the viability of a warrior (for example) built around these runes.

While I think other classes may be using this for funzies right now, give it about a week or two – they’ll realize that their big damage from these runes doesn’t come as often or as predictably as they’d like.

Bottom line, I like the runes. Confusion is getting me kills again.

Naytron.7831:

Thank you Kwisatz Haderach [KH] for the GvG tonight. Your frontline is pretty solid, keep it up! You guys should set up more GvGs with other guilds. We’ll be looking forward to watching you guys or perhaps a rematch someday.

Fun fights. NS coordination was fantastic, very impressed – your backline gankers gave us fits!

Thanks, looking forward to catching you guys on the battlefield the rest of the week!

Stormbringer.5867:

Why does mesmer need retaliation?

IMO, free damage is good damage.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Yeah been testing out the shield one, its like 3 seconds.

@AndresR – how have you gotten 19.5seconds? 100% boon duration? I am getting 15seconds it isnt that bad actually, normally skip it with other traits being more important. Maybe it would be over powered but it would be good if it affected ALL shatters (with a cool down of course) I am guessing you are atleast 30 Into Chaos and 20 into Illusions to get 19seconds

Might have to give it a try and see what happens

15 sec base, 30 Chaos (30% boon duration increase) = 19.5 sec. No need for anything other than that for the retal.

Sword/focus – temporal curtain and sword 3 leap combo will give you ~15 secs of retal.

That’s one way anyway, between that and retal on the confusion shatter gives you permanent retal access (credit to Pyro for teaching me that).

Edit – you have to stand on the curtain. Also, warden won’t give retal, it’s a whirl combo finisher. It’ll cleanse conditions in a light field.

People are conditioned to ignore confusion now, due to the old damage nerf. Now that confusion is pretty viable again, I wonder how long it’ll be before we see the facerolling, button-spamming QQers start posting again. xD

Anyway, enough off-topic junk for me. Had a fun weekend of solo roaming when I could stay away from all three servers’ zerg groups (computer issues kept me from running with my guild’s normal raid times). Props to BG for tenacity, had a few of your groups chase me from one side of the map to the other. I distinctly recall saying “f&@k, they’re STILL coming!” on multiple occasions. LOL

Not sure about bleeds or other conditions, but for our 1 sec duration burns, the round up in duration seems to be at 75% increased duration (where 1.75 sec gets rounded up to 2 secs and you get an extra tick).

Edit – just repeated what Palu said in a previous post, but wanted to emphasize for a staff condition build, particularly for WvW. 75%+ condition duration seems to make a staff / x/torch build much more deadly imo.

Titan.3472:

Stop complaining and just play to win not to whine :p

But but but… WINning is in WhINing!

Bah dum dum.