Guild Wars 2

Please.

Lock.

Honestly, with the current state of confusion, if it’s the confusion that’s killing you, you’re better off playing something else anyway. Nothing we say here is going to help you get good enough to do anything in PvP/WvW anyway.

MikaHR.1978:

Distaste.4801:

MikaHR.1978:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Eliandal.8735:

……All this is doing (at least in our bracket) is breeding fair weather WvW. If it’s the first matchup – people just don’t show (queues on all maps are gone within 2 hours on Friday night) whereas for the second – well we’ve had off and on queues for different maps all weekend

And therein lies the main problem with WvWvW. Anet has no way to know the percentage of fair-weather players. Servers which actually could compete with each-other simply give up due to morale issues, internal politics, or lack of desire/ability to change tactics for different opponents.

Add to that the insistence on using ranking systems designed for professional sports (or chess) where the team sizes are static and the rosters are known to all sides for a 24/7 game-mode without set teams. Expecting consistent performance from thousands of random people who basically amount to hobbyists (even the most hardcore) is ridiculous.

Swiss is actually great, but with current setup it should be 3 weeks, absolute maximum of 4. Anything over that doenst make much sense (as now experienced)

I could see this working for 4 weeks and 2 leagues, but need to add/remove servers for that so i guess it wont happen.

Swiss is good when all competitors have a decent chance of winning. However that is not the case here since T2 has no chance at beating T1. In chess the favorite player can still be beaten by the player ranked last if he screws up or lets his guard down. In GW2 T1 players could play half as much with their attention on TV and still trounce lower tiers.

Um, no.

Not entirely sure what this adds to the discussion. Care to elaborate?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Why do we even need to speculate? Why was this information not clearly broadcast to us in the first place?

+1.

To answer your edit -

“As” and “shatter” together makes the kitty filter think you’re trying to say a word that refers to someone’s backside with a hat on it.

The lengths the filter goes to is pretty funny sometimes.

Having fought JQ off and on for awhile now, I would definitely say never count them out. Definitely a fun server to face imo, and they always fight hard.

Or it could just be a tie and both get the same tournament reward.

Jeknar.6184:

Yeah… I made the math, and if Gold was actually running by the regular standarts, SoS would finish 2nd (lol wut?).

I guess JQ/TC doing 2v1 on BG have another excuse to continue, more than sheer hatred…

Well, from my standpoint, there isn’t any BG hated at all – both JQ and BG are tons of fun to fight.

NA Gold, with the political intrigue going on, is pretty interesting to follow and be a part of (for me anyway). Who knows how it will all play out.

DeWolfe.2174:

Shonie.5297:

It’s amazing to me that someone would go into EOTM and expect to face no opposition.

I’m just going to pull this quote and shove it right up every guild group that goes into EotM. I mean seriously, you’re tossing around a double standard here. Uplevels are a close equivalent to having no opposition. That’s why guild groups running in EotM have become the laughing stock and veritable comedic punching bag of any match they enter. Doesn’t even matter which side their on either, you’re getting laughed at and don’t even know it.

By “running around in there” it’s loosely defined as actually defending structures and hunting for the karma train. If you are a guild group and part of the karma train, then it’s ok.

btw.. if you are in EotM hunting bags as a form of gaining wealth, you are gaining wealth in one of the least efficient manners possible in game.

The point you fail to mention is that it’s really fun to do. Hitting a huge blob of PvEers thinking their dungeon zerk stats are good and downing dozens on one pass is a BLAST.

Jeknar.6184:

But the server that will get 2nd for “all weeks” on the top match of the league, got 5 pts on the second week. So, it’s actualy 3 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 29 (same as the 3rd server), oposed to 3 × 9 = 27 which would result in being ranked lower than the server swaping in the 3rd place. The server that will actually get 3 on all matchups is the server that get second on the middle match of the league.

No, not in NA Gold. This format does not work for a six-server league. The server that got second week 1 took second week 2 as well.

Ozzrel.9825:

Ah, well, NA gold league has 6 server, so that might be a problem, since you had 2 servers with 3 points, but they had to be put in different tiers.

Yanno, let me apologize for the snarky comments. This whole tournament has been frustrating for NA Gold, and that’s ANet’s poor choice, not yours.

Sorry for pointing my frustration your way.

Ozzrel.9825:

In the 2nd match-up, T1 had servers with 5 points and T2 had server with 3 points. From 3rd match-up on, the 2nd server in T1 stays in T1.

Please quit pretending this is some hypothetical math problem, dude. It’s not. I’m ON the server this happened to.

Let me break down how it happened…

Week 1 – (Week 13 in MOS if you want to check it) BG/JQ/TC, JQ takes third, moves down to T2. SoS (first in T2) moved up. So week 2 was BG/TC/SoS (Week 14 in MOS if you want to check it). Notice that the server that took second STAYED in T1, and if it played out, would likely stay in T1 (in second place) the whole tournament.

Either I’m confusing what you’re saying, or you’re wrong. Not sure which really, but I’m betting on the “you’re wrong” part.

Looks like the OP deleted his/her post. These are all replies.

Ozzrel.9825:

Spiky.8403:

@Dhampyr: another proof Anet has no idea what is good for WvW tournament and even dare to call it improvement.

You mean, another proof that people have no clue about what they are talking.
If a server was 2nd in its 1st match-up, it has to either win the next one (in T2) or it doesn’t deserve the 2nd place.

Umwhut? If the server was second in it’s first matchup, it doesn’t GO to T2. It stays in T1, and the server that took 3rd moves down to T2.

Do you even play this game?

Andrew Clear.1750:

Well, coming in 2nd in 2 matches is worth 6 points. Coming in 1st and 3rd is worth 6 points. Now, the server coming in 2nd each time, should be able to have the higher world rating, and that is the tie breaker. FA will finish 2nd everytime, and YB should have the same number of points as FA when the season ends. But, FA will still be ranked higher in the Glicko rankings, and will get 2nd.

This only holds true for a season with an even number of weeks. In the case of this nine-week season, the server with all the 2nd place finishes ends up lower.

For all second places, it’s 3 pts X 9 weeks = 27 points

For the server that swaps -

5 +1+5+1+5+1+5+1+5 = 29 points, placing higher in this style tournament than the server placing second the entire time (and beating this server every time they match up).

Bottom line, this type of tournament is broken for this amount of participants.

I like this build. My only recommendation is to swap mirror for a traited mantra heal. The multiple condi-cleanse would be nice, especially while disengaging with immob, chill, or cripple on you.

BAITness.1083:

You know BG was not always a t1 server right?

And you realize that the complaining isn’t just about TC and JQ focusing on BG, but about their not agreeing to not jockey for position so they can trade wins and guarantee they take the top two spots in the tournament? If this was just about JQ and TC focusing on BG we would have been complaining for the months that they stomped us.

The “BG is such an underdog!” thing was already played out last season. You need new material.

Ansau.7326:

And that’s why I play a boon-ripping shatter build. Quite useful, ok DPS (seeing 3k with MW and 4k with BF), lots of mobility and really skillful.

Exactly. And that’s why I play torment/confusion condi shatter with GS/Staff. I get plenty of bags myself, and the survivability is better (in my opinion). To each their own, imo.

Reikou.7068:

IF: 2v1 is not considered “match manipulation” because it is not "PvP,
THEN: Spies, sabotage, etc, are also not be breach of EULA because WvW is not “PvP.”

just something to note.

Trying… so… hard… to remember when ANet did anything at all about spies and saboteurs.

theblankcalendar.1792:

I totally didn’t just link a thread that I was already in. Quickly deletes the post See? That never happened. Idk what you’re talking about.

LOL +1.

Ansau.7326:

Dhampyr.2104:

While I wouldn’t argue with the above posts, for ZvZ, the torment/confusion shatter build is probably one of our better options now. I’m definitely tagging more now, that’s for sure.

Just to be clear, I’m definitely not saying mesmer is on par with GWEN for ZvZ, but we’re better than we were.

Tagging more doesn’t mean you’re being more useful. I could drop Shattered Concentrations for Confusing Enchantments and I would tag much more, but the boon ripping is way more useful than a bunch of 200ish.

I don’t see condi cleansing the truly problem. What I think is more important is that we apply very low stacks of conditions (confusion, torment and bleeding). Damage will be a lot spread, but you won’t be pushing enemies hard.
And the real key in zergs is not CC, but spike damage…

A mesmer’s usefulness isn’t rooted in DPS at all. We bring things to the group that nobody else can, and a skillful mesmer can turn the tide of a battle. We’ll likely never compete with guards, warr, ele, or necro for ZvZ DPS. Thing is, none of them bring what I bring, and that’s why I still play mesmer in groups.

Folks say we’re weak in groups. While that’s true from a purely numbers standpoint, I’ve lost count of how many times my well-placed veil or portal has grabbed a win from defeat. If people want numbers, roll a different profession. If people want to make a difference, well, playing mesmer is still a fun thing to do.

Can’t believe this thread is still alive.

ANet has already stated that 2v1 in WvW is expected.

On top of that, do you notice what is the virtually only matchup that is being discussed this season, even to the point where folks are ignoring forum rules to post about it?

Bottom line, the conduct you’re looking down on is the one thing that has made this tournament interesting at all.

Jappy.6907:

I cant wait til season 2 ends. I’m excited to see HoD going tier 1. I think they got potential

This will be interesting to see. I predict an implosion when the DB/Mag/SoS wall is hit (there’s a reason why FA is in Silver League).

While I wouldn’t argue with the above posts, for ZvZ, the torment/confusion shatter build is probably one of our better options now. I’m definitely tagging more now, that’s for sure.

Just to be clear, I’m definitely not saying mesmer is on par with GWEN for ZvZ, but we’re better than we were.

Sube Dai.8496:

My power ranger

LOL all I can do is picture your toon wearing colorful spandex and talking by wiggling its head…

Walorx.5129:

This is unfair. Organized guilds going into edge of the mists to farm people trying to level and get thier achievements. Anet needs to cap the amount of people from the same guild per overflow. We already can’t get these stupid achievements in regular wvw because of queue, now we are getting farmed by these organized groups. Not going to say who, but the dinosaurs are jerks.

Those bad, bad jerky dinosaurs.

(Wish I knew who those cats were so I could send ’em some siege in tribute)

WEXXES.2378:

I need to know how to fight this mesmer that:

1) Has High burst damage
2) Has High condi spam, mainly confusion, bleed, burn
3) Has protection/aegis on and generally reduces any non-condi damage by half
4) Constant Stealth
5) Constant Healing (while in stealth)
6) Million of clones no matter how many AoE spam there is
7) Uses GS
8) Constant Condi Removal

I’m guessing its a PU or w/e that thing is.

Just to explain Pyro’s sarcasm – the mesmer you describe in your original post doesn’t exist. If the build has high burst damage, the conditions don’t hit for much. If it has high condi ticks, the power stinks and there isn’t much burst. Condi removal tends to be problematic for most builds, there isn’t any build with constant condi removal (the build that I run is probably close to the best condi removal available for mesmers, gets rid of 12 condis over about 15 secs).

Bottom line, while mesmers can have some of what you describe in your OP, no single build has all of it.

Edit – the best advice I can give you is roll a mesmer and learn it. With no sarcasm intended, you really don’t know what you’re talking about – playing a mesmer will change that.

mango.9267:

Damage looks nice, but I have trouble seeing why an enemy couldn’t ignore you and survive. Seems pretty easy for your opponents to just run away, and you really don’t have any more chasing potential than other PU builds do.

With condi-PU, it’s pretty much required for the opponent to kill clones in order for the damage to stack high enough to matter – and when they’re running away, they’re not attacking clones (therefore, it’s an easy escape for just about everyone). With this build, the long, high damage burns will continue to tick regardless of whether they’re fighting back or not – so, you have a better chance of downing them when they run (less damage tied to clone death).

That’s my theory anyway – you’re right in that chasing isn’t any better. Killing the cowardly will be better though. :-)

NonToxic.9185:

snip

This makes me sad, but if I was a gambling guy, I’d bet you’re right.

Alex.9268:

The thing I am most negative about it IE not getting fixed like they said it would. It wouldn’t change much in terms of staff viability but it was a fun change I was really looking forward to.

This. I mean, we have Dev posts saying it’d be fixed in the feature patch (as everyone knows), and as far as I know, I haven’t seen any official ANet posts saying that they’re still working on it (someone mentioned “knowing a dev who plays mesmer”, but somehow that’s just not the same).

The biggest problem I have with ANet isn’t their failures in balance or even the bugs (although both are annoying). The game is crazy complex, and I understand that – bugs and balance problems will likely always be there. Their lack of communication is appalling, though. I guess it’s a good thing that I like GW2 more than anything else out right now – I’m still spending some cash in the gem store, but when something as fun as GW2 comes out from a developer who actually appears to care about their customer base………………….

With the vigor nerf, sigil of energy is always a good thing, especially with a shatter build. I’m liking the torment sigil as well, particularly in ZvZ where adversaries tend to bunch up alot.

lordkrall.7241:

You mean giving us an update so that people can whine every single week about it not being released yet?
Or giving us an update that might change, and thus people will whine about being lied to and so on?

Why do you think they don’t tell us things anymore?

Tell us things anymore? That would imply that they shared things with us in the first place. ANet Devs are really bad about communication – things like profession traits changing without documentation in patch notes, updates that are started three minutes after notification (c’mon, can’t believe folks can’t plan these things out and let us KNOW), etc.

Osi has the long and short of it – nobody really builds condi specs for PVE. They’re really inefficient. If you’re dead set on running with one, tho, you might try out some of the WvW condi builds.

And Pyro, you must be having a bad day or something. That was a pretty hostile response, dude, and not really warranted.

If you want to send me a bunch of gold, I’ll look into that for you.

PS. I’m being sarcastic, but if you want to send me the gold anyway, feel free.

Also, the traits haven’t changed too much really, other than new GM traits. They just count by 5’s now.

So, if you had a build you liked before while running GS, it’ll most likely still work fine.

Nausicca.6038:

I tried a 0/6/0/2/6 build with rabbid and staff/sc-torch or sw/focus – sce/torch last evening and it was ok in 1v1. Agains’t any decent group, it becomes totaly useless. I couldn’t really stack torment or whatever. Power shatter is still better, by far imo.

For groups, I’ve found it better running GS over sc-t or sw-focus imo – you have more AOE, and the clones/phants are summoned in the enemy group and don’t have far to run for your shatter.

0/6/0/2/6 for WvW, seems to work pretty well with dire gear (especially in a ZvZ environment) – survival is really nice, and the condi damage is pretty good too. Double sigil of torment, staff with bursting as 2nd, GS with strength as 2nd (too cheap to buy another bursting lol, already had it in the GS for some reason).

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAW7al0npRtlpxINcrNicqA0h6x1BeAQpH42FCAA-z0BBYhCyk3wUHBKFtIas11FRjVJjIqWpEjUALKNC-w

The GM traits are the Harmonious Mantras and the Torment GM trait in Illusions.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Perplexity runes don’t work. You have 33, 20, and 40 for a total of 93% duration giving you about 6 seconds of confusion. Unfortunately, once you burst that confusion, you’ve now destroyed 100% of your other condition potential. You have no clones left. You’ve burnt mirror images.

Again, this works against bad players. By definition, only a bad player will kill themselves on confusion. You keep saying ‘people don’t expect the burst and so they kill themselves’. You are describing really bad players. If they don’t notice a Mesmer bursting confusion, if they don’t dodge easily dodgeable shatters then they are a really bad player.

My reaction to seeing 12 stacks of confusion would be to pop a condition removal immediately. Since my condition removals are on 20ish second cooldowns and your shatter burst is on a 36 second cooldown, you lose.

Again, I agree with you and I’m not arguing. The only flaw in your statement is that you seem to be considering yourself the “average” player in WvW. Of course this wouldn’t work on you – but for the general populace that frequents WvW, it works great, especially when they’re figuring me, a staff mesmer, to be running PU and clone death. In a true 1v1 dueling situation, I don’t think this build would fare very well – but against the average players in WvW, it works fine in my experience.

Also, after the burst, I’m not without clones either – I’ve only burnt one dodge, I have vigor (most likely), and my Staff #2 is off CD for a total of three clones (or two clones and one iWarlock if I want to save a dodge) up very quickly AFTER the burst, hitting with burns, bleeds, and vuln. It’ll only get better after the fix to IE which will (hopefully) hit today.

I’m not saying this is the best build out there by any means – however, it has a ton of survivability, decent mobility for a mesmer, does decent damage, and the stacks of confusion in the burst can be very relevant, especially since they’re AOE (for a large group encounter). The OP was asking about confusion stacking, and this build does it about as well as any imo, while not relying on confusion as its sole source of damage.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Dhampyr.2104:

Pyroathiest.4168:

In order to truly stack confusion to levels that matter, you must sacrifice all other aspects of the build, instantly making your stacked confusion completely vulnerable to the /dance defense.

Hmmmmmm… IP Condi-shatter can pretty much instantly get 12+ stacks of confusion (3-clone mindwrack, followed by mirror images and a dodge, then Cry of Frustration), while still putting decent general condi pressure with burns/bleeds.

In anticipation of the feature patch, I played the build (20/20/0/0/30) last night to pretty good effect. Folks are so conditioned for the war of attrition style condi mesmer (think Blackwater) that they aren’t really expecting the condi burst from a staff mesmer. Had a great time. :-)

Yes, the build works against bad players. The confusion lasts 4 seconds. All it takes is for them to pause momentarily and your burst is completely wasted. Anyone with even passable skill will never die to confusion burst shatter.

While I agree with you in theory, in practice, it hasn’t been working that way. Folks in WvW are so conditioned to seeing PU condi mesmers whose only strat is to outlast their opponent that they don’t expect to see 12+ stacks of confusion, on top of other conditions (soon to be torment and extra bounces from staff clones as well), and by the time they realize it, they’re on the defensive pretty hard. Also, with perplexity runes, the 33% trait, 20 in dom, and the 40% food, the duration is doubled (along with 60% duration increase to all your other condis).

I guess it pays off to not run the PU condi meta (at least, it has been that way for me). Mesmer mind games ftw.

Wraith.4103:

Sorry Im not familiar with forum abreviations, whats a DE? Deceptive evasion?

Yep, good call. :-)

Pyroathiest.4168:

In order to truly stack confusion to levels that matter, you must sacrifice all other aspects of the build, instantly making your stacked confusion completely vulnerable to the /dance defense.

Hmmmmmm… IP Condi-shatter can pretty much instantly get 12+ stacks of confusion (3-clone mindwrack, followed by mirror images and a dodge, then Cry of Frustration), while still putting decent general condi pressure with burns/bleeds.

In anticipation of the feature patch, I played the build (20/20/0/0/30) last night to pretty good effect. Folks are so conditioned for the war of attrition style condi mesmer (think Blackwater) that they aren’t really expecting the condi burst from a staff mesmer. Had a great time. :-)

trooper.2650:

Seeing how mandatory DE is in almost any builds (actually I’d argue which build DE wouldn’t do some good in way or another), wouldn’t it be a good idea to drop it to adept tier? I am sure it would open up so many 30/10/30 be it power, condi, hybrid, shatter or phantasm builds.

Of course you can always play without DE but I have yet to see someone doing it with a great deal of success. And yet, it would be a specific build, a niche build, which doesn’t really help with diversity and the Anet concept of it.

Thoughts?

While this would indeed open up more options for us, I can already hear the forum whining about being OP…

Swish.2463:

IP seems a more valuable trait than torment on shattering to me and the final trait in Chaos seems fairly useless as most shatter builds dont use this line.

While IP is definitely a strong trait, I’m looking forward to re-doing my old condi-shatter build. The torment and confusion both on each shatter, along with a sigil of doom maybe. I think it’s going to be a fun WvW build. :-)

LOL love it!

Now, you just need to take SMC as the zombie horde…!

For the love of God, shut down this thread.

(Although, I will admit, it’s fun to read)

DivineBeing.2086:

It really is destroying the thrill of the tournament.

Thrill of the tournament for BG players, maybe. I guess winning every week in S1 wasn’t good enough. Now that there’s actually a chance that someone, anyone, other than BG may win… #BGTears

Translation – “I’m a PVE’er who needs this for an achievement or something.”

Fighting in the JPs is FUN – if you don’t like jumping and fighting, go do a PVE JP. No need to change anything imo.

Carpboy.7145:

Any crit procs an on crit effect

Phantasm/clone attack crits do not proc on-crit sigils. The only on-crit effect you can get from their attacks is the sharper images bleed.

Everyone who plays WvW needs to quit sleeping, eating, and working. With everyone playing 24/7, this isn’t an issue.

Slackers.

Just to help out the community – I rolled a warrior yesterday. Now, just because I have one, ANet is guaranteed to nerf it into the ground.

You’re welcome. xD

Dusty Moon.4382:

Dhampyr.2104:

Dusty Moon.4382:

I was using a build such as this but the damage was not as good and conditions not lasting as long. Hence I am using this now – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgEQRAra7dlknpTtlqxYNcrNScSB0lOpHmu0nukCcnbA-zEDBYfRGbZIjk3BiIIzECJM5pIastBFRjVVLpqFYqSRW5CwbQamUARMGA-w

Are you considering your build a condi build? I think you may have picked the wrong gear in the builder – with 276 condi dmg, none of your condis are going to be worth much, scepter won’t be doing much dmg, etc.

I am using daze and confusion along with Torment – that is all the conditions – it does a lot more damage than you think. When on Lyssa,, easily doing 3-5K a pop on her.

When using the other build, which was mostly illusion, The damage is not as much although there is more conditions (and takes longer to kill mobs) I also used different armor etc. for that build also.

Thanks for the reply. That’s pretty interesting, I may have to look into it; it was definitely hard for me to believe scepter is any good in a power build. (Not being confrontational, just noting that most of the “heavy” hitting dmg from scepter is directly related to your condi dmg)

Cheers!