Guild Wars 2

Perhaps you should consider specifying a bit more what you find as fun. Is there something stylistic that you’ve liked in past games?

Was going through some of the threads where people were talking again about how trash mobs are just trash.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if each regular mob dropped 1 token of their respective dungeon? The bosses already drop 3 from the wonderous bags, maybe possibly have the mobs in between (silvers) drop 2?

At the end of the run, if you earned less than 35 tokens during the run, the chest awards you with an equal amount of tokens as you earned. If you earned 35 or more tokens during the run, it gives you tokens enough to cap you at 70 for a run.

To reduce the amount of solo farming that could possibly happen, place a challenge that requires two or three players to complete (2 control panels need to be activated at the same time, etc.) at the beginning of the dungeon.

Yes, it’s in the history.

Additionally, you can also set permissions on who is able to deposit and who is able to withdraw from the bank.

TwoBit.5903:

What’s more useful is defining the the processes that cause the experience, and the current definition of the process is too vague and inadequate.

I disagree, I think what’s more useful is realizing that the process generates a feeling(experience) for a person, and for that person to realize and understand inside of themselves how to properly react to said feeling(experience).

If we were to define the process of grinding in its most general term, I think my definition of “a repetitive action that causes a wearing away” is completely appropriate. It encompasses each action that people consider a grind and distills it down to one concept.

The problem with trying to do the opposite of repetition in a game (and not just MMOs, but just about every single game in existence) is that core elements rely on the ability to repeat and replay.

Let us instead take an example of a one time event that you will never ever be able to replay. The Introduction of the Lost Shores was a one time event. They’ll never replay/reintroduce the Lost Shores and Southsun Cove. Those that were able to attend got to see whatever cutscenes and play whatever missions. Those who couldn’t make it missed out and will never get to experience those. It is therefore impossible to “grind” any mission that might have been associated with this experience. Does that make one-time experiences the kind of things that should be implemented to avoid “grind”?

The Choice to do a repetitive action until you reach a state of mental fatigue is entirely yours. If the reward at the end of the adventure isn’t worth the effort, stop putting in the effort. Your time is valuable and better spent doing something that you will find fulfillment in.

Since the big 3 have become so popular due to the improved treasure chests, I figure I’d just lob out a suggestion to see if it’s possible to “ease” the strain on some servers.

You start with Pre-Events in the open world, however, at the conclusion of the Pre-Events, a Portal opens up. The portal remains active for 5 minutes. When people click on the portal, they get ported to an Instanced version of the zone (say Frostgorge).

This Instanced version could have a softcap of 20 people per shard, with people who grouped together getting the ability to “Join in” to exceed the softcap.

The Instanced version could also have the red crosshatching that indicates if you’re stepping outside of the mission area.

I dunno, it’s late. o_o)-b

TwoBit.5903:

So, why don’t we try to establish something of a consensus on the meaning here? What’s your personal definition of a grind?

Good questions. I think having a consensus on the definition of grind could possibly be very helpful, however, given the breadth of people that use it, that could be difficult – if not near impossible – to settle on one definition. And maybe we shouldn’t, who knows, time will surely tell.

I think 2 questions that could be added is:
Why do you think your definition has more weight, or encapsulates the consensual opinion?
Why should your definition be what more people should hold as the consensual opinion of the definition?

My personal definition of grind is “A repetitive motion or task that creates a wearing away.”

The act of grinding in and of itself has no negative connotation. I think a few posters have already mentioned that they happen to enjoy grinding.

The MEANING that we hold in our minds is what most people have problems with. Playing a game such as an MMO merely provides a tool with which we allow ourselves to express something already inherent in our mentality. (Now does this mean the tool is flawless? Of course not. This game can always be a work in progress.)

In the grand overarching scheme of things, one way or another, you can say that everything we do here in this game is meaningless… Except for the meaning you give to it. As soon as you find your personal meaning in this game, I think you will find your fulfillment and through that a lot more happiness with this game.

TwoBit.5903:

This is probably why I have such an easier time leveling an alt or doing mundange things with a friend, because it feels as though I’m helping someone as I level.

I think you’re hitting on something important and not realizing it. If you’re a Helpful soul, isn’t that really what’s important to you? Shouldn’t you just keep focusing on doing that? If you do, everything else becomes incidental.

How important is that amulet that you get from doing your dailies? If you have to be the Best of the Best but that means sacrificing time that you could be using to help other people, is it really that important?

Would you value your time more if you got good at running newbies through dungeons and having them realize that dungeons aren’t horrible and are actually fun and challenging?

Runes and Gemstones for most armor pieces.
Jewels and Gemstones for most accessories. (Jewels are crafted from Gemstones by giving them settings.)
Sigils for Weapons.

roachsrealm.9284:

A warrior from square one cannot use his highest damaging single attack without first making a bunch of other smaller ones first. He has the opportunity for the highest one-shot damage skill, but no ready access like other skills. It has to be charged first.

Much in the same way many other mechanics work, ie mesmer shatters.

3 shatters all at once would certainly be up there too, but it also required preparation. The damage potential is there, but its not on one button press out the door.

Warriors can use their Healing Surge. >.>

Adine.2184:

randomfightfan.4091:

Salt.4621:

I heard that Elvis is actually a Quaggan.

so dumb… elvis was an alien… geese, it’s like some people never even played perfect dark

No elvis was really a miniature giant space hamster named Boo

Boo is small and evasive, and there is ever so much of Minsc to search.

Lionguard Lyns is gone. She returned to regular Lionguard duties on Feb. 26th.

This was announced in the Jan. 28th patch notes.

I am sorry, but I don’t think you’ll be able to do anything with your commendations.

CHOAM.7852:

Not to propose a technically feasible solution, since I do not have one; but a hypothetical solution would be allowing players to complete 30 dailies in 30 days, but not necessarily requiring them to be done on 30 separate days.

This sounds suspiciously like our Monthlys.

They do not. They need to have their home server as EB if that is where the guild mission is started from.

I myself also don’t discriminate… mostly because I never form speedrun parties (but I’ll join one if the mood strikes me).

If I have a ranger in the party, I’d feel that the group support they Can provide should be provided. If the group members are hurting badly, a Healing Spring to leap through or blast is fantastic help.

Anyways, don’t let it get you down! Like people have said, make your own party, start the instance yourself to prevent people from being able to kick you. Contribute and be the best ranger you can. Make friends and take them in your groups to prevent people from kicking you as easily.

Best of luck!

Re: Guilds. Having your own guild is a good inexpensive way to have a lot of storage space. You can buy it with influence and stuff and it can be for just you and your boyfriend. However, having a guild of people that you are a part of means a community of people that you can do events with. If you don’t have any friends, seek some out.

Hello! There are a lot of issues and a lot of lingo that you’ll need to catch up, yes. I’ll do my best to help out.

PUG = Pick Up Group. This is when you join a group of strangers. If you don’t know that person, they are a PUG. Similarly, you are a PUG to them. You can go PUGging, which means to join a group of people you don’t know.

LFG = Looking for Group. You are looking to join a group of people.

LFM = Looking for Members. You are in a party that needs members. Often times, the number of members needed will pop up as well. LF1M. LF3M.

GLF = Group Looking For… Another way to say LFM.

SM = Story Mode.

Exp/EM = Explorable Mode.

AC = Ascalonian Catacombs.
CM = Cadecus’s Manor.
TA = Twilight Arbor.
SE = Sorrow’s Embrace.
CoF = Citadel of Flame.
HotW = Honor of the Waves.
CoE = Crucible of Eternity.
Arah = Ruins of Arah.

CC = Crowd Control. Things like Stuns, Daze, Chill, Cripple. They are meant to keep monsters under control.

DPS = Damage per second. Just means how much damage do you do. If someone says you need more DPS, they mean you need to do more damage.

DoT = Damage over Time. Things like Bleed, Fire, Poison.

HoT = Heal over Time. You won’t hear this too much in this game, but it means heals that you cast that spread their healing out over a period of time.

AoE = Area of Effect. Things that hit an area instead of a specific target.

I’m sure I’ll think of more. Even if you’re a night owl, there are always people playing around that time. Depending on the night, I only manage to log in around 11pm PST, so my playtime extends through midnight. If you guys need assistance, put me on your friend list – if you see me, I’ll try to help out.

Moa mounts… remind me of something else… something I’ve played before…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A29gDHgPJJw

JesseBensen.4817:

well can anyone tell me this, I have 4/5 of the completionist thing done, and its the 28th today, will I still be able to finish my last one after daily reset today at 6pm central? oris that when the monthly will reset as well?

That depends on what you need as your 5th completionist. Monthly flips over in… 3 hours and 30ish minutes.

This is a good question, and one that I think a lot of people should review in their own minds.

What motivates me to play is fulfillment. Not necessarily happiness, nor material rewards (gearing up). I like experiences. I like getting better (self improvement). I have certain goals that I accomplish that reflect this.

1. Experience the game world. For example, I want to view every vista fully. A lot of people hit up vistas and then hit escape because they just want to checkmark it. I want to appreciate the artwork of the world.

Additionally, I love to stop and listen to some NPC conversations. A lot of them really are hilarious if you stop and take some time.

2. I want to become proficient with all classes. I have 8 characters, one from each class. I’ll be really good (not an expert by far) at one or two classes, but I think it’s important to understand each class. That way if you group up with others, you’ll know what they’re doing. Additionally, if I’m PVPing against someone, I’ll have a general idea of what kind of strategies they’ll use.

3. I want to help others. I have a guild and people with their own goals. I want people to achieve those goals and find fulfillment as well.

Some of you may be wondering why I didn’t say I want happiness – after all, this is a game, isn’t it? Yes, I do want happiness, however, I take it as a byproduct of fulfillment. In other words, if I do something challenging that I failed at (let’s say I ran FotM 26 and I failed a run) I might be frustrated, but so long as I learned something valuable from it, I am achieving one of my goals, and thus working towards my fulfillment. That makes me happy despite a setback of failing a run.

Anyways. That’s what I think. Since you asked. ^_~

When this happens, what you should do is call out for a swap in roles. Have one of the people who hasn’t been pulling aggro swap to bucket duty.

As far as finding low level groups, when you go on gw2lfg.com, check a range of people between 1 and 9. Remember that so long as the level of the fractal is equal to or higher than your personal progress level, you will advance in rank.

Hello! In addition to some of the very helpful recommendations, may I add in that you should consider using food and potions. Peach pies are a very inexpensive form of low health regen. Or you could spring for Mixed Berry pies which are a cheaper Gain Heatlh on crit.
And of course get a few cheap potions of flame legion slaying.

Navarat.2649:

what do you mean “15 chars”

(People say this because the minimum amount of characters required to successfully post a message is 15. So you can’t just post “Yes” because that’s only 3 characters.)

Hi Anwar, I would like to encourage you to not give up. I think you can do it.

What class are you playing? Most classes have tools that can assist with jumping through either swiftness, a passive speed buff, or some kind of leap/jumping ability.

Also, they slower movement (and hence shorter jumps) is something that is in combat, and you do need to be aware of that. If your utility bar doesn’t give you the switch options, you are still in combat, so watch your jumps!

Lastly, If you do feel the frustration kicking in, I find that my quality of jumping goes down. Take a small breather! Do something that you know you can do and you have success doing, and when you feel like you’re on a mentally even keel again, take another crack at it.

Best of luck!

I’d take a Guild Airship and/or a Guild Submarine while we’re at it.

I think there’s a chest squirreled away in that crumbling fort. (If we’re talking about the same area. Was it a veteran boar guarding the rich platinum vein?)

Swagg.9236:

Are you Robert Hroda using an alt account?

Nope. If he has something to say, I’m sure he’d use his actual account.

Swagg.9236:

Also-“-just going to have to live with it?” Are you not a player (unless you really are an ANet developer in disguise)? As a player—the one who invests time and money into this game—are you not entitled to determining how this game develops?

They’ve made a change based on the request of the general player base. You can voice your opinion otherwise. I’m not saying you shouldn’t. In fact, you should because that’s how change gets made. But there’s a good way and a bad way of pushing an agenda.

As of right now, the current state of the game is that you can’t waypoint zerg. If you want some kind of change, you’re going to have to point out why three+ months of people asking for change to the current state of affairs is worse than the previous state of affairs. If you cannot do this, then you’re going to have to live with how the game currently is.

Swagg.9236:

I’m not flinging insults; I’m raising points.

Swagg.9236:

“Rez-rushing” only has a negative connotation because Robert Hroda decided to use the term in a negative post in which he wagged his finger angrily at players that played the game (GW2) correctly and optimally. “Rez-rushing” literally has no meaning. It’s a thin, paper-mache cover of negativity that an ANet developer slipped over the otherwise neutral definition of the word “Respawning” and then marketed to the GW2 player base in order to justify his implementation of a terrible game-play feature.

These accusations are libelous. You insult someone when you spread libel.

Swagg.9236:

Whether you want to try to skirt around those with ad hominem arguments is your choice, but it won’t prove me wrong.

Ad hominem attacks are where one person makes personal attacks to weaken another person’s credibility in an attempt to make a person’s argument invalid instead of pointing out the logical flaws in their arguments.

I have not questioned your character or moral being. I’ve pointed out that your argument fails to stand on its own value.

Swagg.9236:

Now who’s insulting whom?

u wot m8?

Swagg.9236:

Then I’ll go ahead and continue to make my point that, regardless of when the term “rez-rushing” was first coined, it remains this strawman term that has no purpose except to somehow stigmatize the idea of respawning in a game and continuing to contribute to that game as expected.

Anet is guilty of trying to use this worthless term to justify a bad dungeon mechanic.

Arena Net considered the cries of players saying how terrible it was that people Waypoint Zerged. You can see it in the post I linked in my previous post.

They made a decision as a Reaction to the player base.

The responsibility of these changes lies with us, the player base. That’s you. That’s me. I never personally asked for some of these changes, but then again I never stood against them either.

In the end, you’re going to have to live with it. Will it be modified? I think that there will be a few tweaks (possibly things like people who fall in lava during boss fights get teleported to a reachable platform so they could get ressed).

Should we stop posting suggestions? Certainly not, but I think flinging blame around because you’re angry about a change is irresponsible and immature. If you want change to happen, if you want to forward an agenda on these forums, you probably shouldn’t be flinging insults around.

Swagg.9236:

u wot m8?

y r not use yuor hed soemtimes?

Thank you Libertys Knight, I appreciate that.

I’d like to say this, given that the post Robert Hrouda made that Liberys linked is from Jan 28th, 2013. I don’t believe Robert Hrouda coined the term. In fact, I believe the player community coined the term, and choosing to say that Robert or Anet made the term so they could forward an agenda is Libelous.

I have 2 points.

1. Rez Rushing is synonymous with Waypoint Zerging.
There are many names that have been given to the act defined. Libertys’ post gives the definition, and I believe that “Res Zerging”, “Res Rushing”, “Waypoint Zerging”, “Corpse Running” etc. all mean the same thing.

2. People have been using this term since before Jan 28th.
Kuthos.9623 makes mention of both “Waypoint Zerging” and “Rez Zerging” in the same post mentioned here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Corpse-Running-Waypoints-and-Boss-Fights/first#post383027

As you can see, this post is 3 months old. I’m sure given a bit more digging, I could potentially find older posts relating to the same topic.

My point in making this post is that people are quick to judge and scapegoat. Before throwing accusations around, please consider carefully the veracity of your claims.

I personally think character-wise that Robert is a very communicative and helpful person who works for the good of the player base with the power he has been allotted by his position. Why crucify him for something he didn’t do?

I am curious, Swagg, if you could link the earliest post where Robert uses this term?

Thank you Dyroth, I appreciate it!

You’re a good person. o_o)-b

I myself also consider myself a fairly casual player. (Work 2 jobs, play for ~3ish hours five nights a week, give or take)

However, I feel that your requests are somewhat misguided.

CHIPS.6018:

I already finished Arah paths 1 to 3. I farmed enough in Arah for the Arah armor. But I refuse to touch path 4 because everyone in my guild said it was brutal time wise. I do not have 4+ hours to burn on this, with the risk of failing and not getting anything.

You have the word of your guild members as a gospel that you are adhering to and trying to push an agenda on these forums based off of that. It’s not even your own personal experience.

A casual player could very well complete path 4 in under 2 hours given some practice so they become familiar with the run. It’s somewhat unfortunate that you are denying yourself the opportunity to find out because of your refusal to try it out.

Perhaps you fail the first time. Maybe it takes more than your 2 hours. Is that time wasted? Only if you believe it so. But you could instead take the stance that you learned something from your experience, and the next time you could go in, armed with that knowledge, and get further, and further until you actually accomplish the path in under 2 hours.

Perhaps as an aside, how about some evidence from others that Have finished path 4?
How many people have finished Path 4 in over 4 hours?
Under 4 hours?
Under 2 hours?

Hmmm. Maybe whenever you have it drawn, you should hear a song…

“Rodgort! Rodgort! Burninating the countryside! Burninating the peasants!!”

Naqaj.6219:

knives.6345:

But they don’t want to work hard for it. It’s like telling ANet indirectly “hey, gimme stuff”.

Common misconception. It’s not about ‘gimme stuff’, it’s about ‘make me do something interesting instead of something repetitive and boring in order to earn my stuff’.

This is a game. We’re not supposed to work hard. Does not mean everything has to be instant, it just has to be interesting.

I feel like there are both types of people.

There are some people who are willing to work hard for something even though they hate the work, but have decided the reward is worth it.

And there are people who want the reward, hate the work, and have decided that the work isn’t worth doing, but they should have the reward anyways.

The first group of people are Grinders. The second group are people who feel Entitled.

The thing is that Grinders differ from nonGrinders only in that the nonGrinders enjoy doing the action that leads to the reward.

knives.6345:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I feel like people should reorganize their priorities to reduce their personal Grind. If they asked themselves questions like, “What do I really want to do in this game?” And “What am I willing to do to achieve my goals in this game?” And “What am I not willing to sacrifice for this game?” people might come away less dissatisfied.

Great point!

Personally, I think everyone wants:

-Legendary
-Ascended
-Do monthlies/dailies

But they don’t want to work hard for it. It’s like telling ANet indirectly “hey, gimme stuff”.

Why play an MMORPG? Why not play a solo game, enter a cheat to have 999999 gold, buy all items and hack/slash inside the game?

I see complaints: “Why include crafting to dailies?”, “Why do I need to resu people to get dailies? It’s soooooo boooooring”

Then another: “Legendary’s a grind. I did a math and it will take you 100 years for a casual to get one. It’s too hard….”

I mean, do players really don’t want to work hard anymore? Is this the society we are in? We feel that we should have things the easy way everytime?

I know what you mean! -_-;

I think of this as Entitlement – people feeling they deserve something, whether they actually deserve it or not.

To keep myself from feeling like I’m Grinding, I sample a little bit of Everything.

I do dungeons and FotM. I usually try to get some guildies to go because things are more fun when you play with people you know. It’s less stressful and you come to understand each other’s capabilities.

I work a bit on exploration. I like stopping and watching the whole cutscene in a vista. Sometimes you just need to stop an appreciate the art of the game, and vistas are a good way of doing so. I also like stopping to listen to NPC conversations! Some of them are Hilarious. o_o)-b

I work a bit on crafting. I’m 6/8 and almost done with #7. I am also doing the crafts spread across different characters so that I can boost each one 10 or so levels. I enjoy the discovery process and I accept the cost of mats as a price for this entertainment.

I work on different classes. If I feel like I’ve been on my warrior or elementalist too long, I’ll go level my thief or guardian. I do so because I want to see how each class behaves, what their strengths are, what their weaknesses are. I think this’ll help me play with them better when I’m doing events as a team. Then I’ll know to stand in the goopy green necro stuff because it’s actually healing me instead of thinking it’s poison. Or comboing Cleansing Wave through that elementalist’s water field. Etc.

The thing is that I’m working on one, then moving to another so that I’m always keeping a nice variety.

Personally, I hate to label a person lazy because they find something a Grind. I myself could do FotM and be entertained by it for a good long while. If I tried to do something like Fishing as WoW did it, I think I’d be bored to tears and I’d never want to Grind the levels. It’s not because I’m lazy (I run my own business in RL along with an evening job for fun). It’s just that some things just aren’t entertaining to some people. I think I can respect that.

Edit: Of course, I dislike when people feel Entitled to things. But that’s a whole ’nother issue. >_>

I completely agree that grind is a personal view. What one person finds fun, another person will find distasteful.

To me, Grind means to repetitively do a task that wears you down.

While one person does FotM and feels worn down after doing it, another person could do the exact same run and feel energized and rewarded by doing it.

I also agree that you don’t have to have a Legendary nor do you have to have Ascended gear to be able to enjoy playing the game.

I feel like people should reorganize their priorities to reduce their personal Grind. If they asked themselves questions like, “What do I really want to do in this game?” And “What am I willing to do to achieve my goals in this game?” And “What am I not willing to sacrifice for this game?” people might come away less dissatisfied.

I… I kind of feel like people have been blinded by the desire for rewards. I dunno. If rewards are the “destination” and quests and dungeons and DEs and such are the “journey” I kinda feel like people have ignored the journey aspect and now only focus on the destination part instead of trying to enjoy the experience of both.

You’re possibly thinking of the tooltip damage?

Direct damage is listed on skills’ tooltip, as marked by Damage. Level 80 tooltip damage is given by the following equation:

Tooltip damage = (average weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (level-based Armor value)

The level based armor value when you’re lvl 80 is 2600.

Your skill coefficient is probably too high. Try 1.0, 0.9, 1.1 as your coefficients?

Good on you for having a spirit to be better even before joining the dungeon, Darth Llama!

While I agree that no one wants to be that ‘one guy’, just remember that there are people out there willing to also step up and be a Teammate and help res you because they know you’d do the same for them.

If you do a gw2lfg post, maybe just ask for casuals so that people won’t freak out on you if you do make a few mistakes.

Both classes are really good to play in dungeons. If it were me trying to make that decision, I’d choose one, then listen carefully to myself to see if I wanna change my mind. Then choose the other, and see if I wanna change my mind comparatively more or less than the other. Hahaha, if you can sort of understand that thought process…

In the end, I think you should pick one, let’s say Guardian. But I think you should keep your elementalist upgraded as best you can so that you can use both.

Sometimes you’ll want to have your guardian because you’ll see a dungeon group you’re in needs a heavy to get in mobs’ faces and create a focal point for others to AoE things down.

Sometimes you’ll want to be Elementalist so you can provide AoEs or utility/support. Nice thing about dungeons is how you can choose to swap characters if you need to.

Actually, I think that overall, not much will change with most player’s attitudes towards others in PUGs.

Those who thoughtfully and kindly explain basic strats will continue to do so. People who go above and beyond and make helpful videos (thanks Wethospu o_o)-b) will most likely continue to do so because they enjoy doing that.

People who want experienced players only will probably continue to demand experienced players only on gw2lfg.

Personally, I for one am always down to help someone out so long as they’re willing to keep an open mind for learning. And I’m always willing to learn something new from those much more experienced than I, should that opportunity arise.

While I agree it should be something Anet should consider, I think we as players need to take responsibility for ourselves and work on building each other up instead of always tearing each other down. But that’s just my personal opinion.

To purchase Ascended rings, you will need to have Pristine Fractal Relics. You earn one per 10+ Daily.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pristine_Fractal_Relic

The Back pieces cost regular Fractal Relics.

I should have mentioned. I’m not pro-5Sig warrior. In the case for experimentation, I’m keeping a neutral stance. The thread isn’t a discussion about whether or not 5 sig warriors are better or worse for a dungeon run. It’s an opportunity for 5 sig warriors to defend their case by showing us what they can do in a party.

alcedonia, as far as variety of runs, I suppose I could do multiple runs – it’s just that I don’t want the video to run overly long. You do bring up really good points, and I suppose I shouldn’t discount AC right off the bat.

As far as judging effectiveness, I will mainly be bringing the video as a presentation so that others can judge the effectiveness of the two groups compared to each other.

I think that most people judge success of runs as Speed of the Run + Minimal amount of Deaths.

Thank you Kyma Grey for the suggested build!

There were two or three threads that discussed 5sig warriors in the general Discussion forums, so I apologize if I don’t recall which one, but I do recall someone saying that they got booted from FotM because they were a 5sig warrior.

I’d like something of medium difficulty, so I might skip AC.

TA might not be a bad choice. Why would it be for the masochistic?

Quaz.4931:

I am confused, are people arguing or agreeing?

It’s a bit of a splitting hairs kind of thing. I disagree with people using ratio as the only metric.

I think that understanding the worth of a weapon is an incredibly important factor that up until now people have been failing to comprehend.

People are saying that equality is the only factor that should go into determining the price of 1h and 2h weapons.

Hello!

There was some talk in General Discussion about 5 Signet Warriors and booting them from Dungeon/FotM runs.

I’d idly said, “Wouldn’t it be interesting to have five 5Sig Warriors run a dungeon and record it?”

I’d like to make this happen, and I was looking for volunteers. The people I’m looking for are proponents of 5Signet builds. (Someone who wants to prove the strengths of 5Signet.) The reason is because I’d want to see people honestly giving their all with said builds.

I’d also like to record 5 different warriors doing the same dungeon but using different builds suggested by the forum goers at large. So volunteers for this would be really cool too.

Lastly, what dungeon would be a good testbed? I’d like suggestions on a dungeon that has a wide variety of situations.

I’m thinking that a Sunday run (possibly something like 4pm PST/7pm EST). Do the 5sig one week, then the varied builds the next week.

If this doesn’t gain traction, no biggie, I just thought it might be a neat experiment.

Orion Magus.5348:

First off DigitalKirin.9714 in your above post you meant to quote Ahlen.7591 Not me.

Ah, my most sincere apologies.

Orion Magus.5348:

Secondly a lot of what you broke the conversation down to is very skewed and I would advise anyone newly coming into this thread to read the whole thing not just your cliff notes version.

Sounds good, I think it is a good read, but then again, I’m weird like that.

Orion Magus.5348:

Shenanigans (as far as denying equality). That’s really all there is to say since you have been disputing equality (going to assume you misspelled there) the entire thread.

I did agree that 300/600 would be fair, I also implied that 150/300 would be fair. The ratio is more important for this discussion than actual numbers.

I meant equity. I didn’t misspell the word.

The ratio is only part of the discussion. The root of contention lay when I asked why people preferred the lower number. The reason was because of the ratio, however, that fails to be an adequate reason. If ratio is the only concern, then 5,000/10,000 is just as good as 150/300.

By saying ratio is the only thing that is important when demanding a lower price, such as 200/390(this was mentioned early on) or 150/300, people are merely trying to obfuscate their true intentions.

Orion Magus.5348:

The stated comments that 1 handed weapon prices should be brought down is because that this would overall have a more positive reaction from the player base.

A completely valid reason to put forth, and – I might mention – the first one that actually talks about the value of the weapons as opposed to just saying that the ratio is the only reason as to why the price should be brought down.

(Funny enough, you’ll find that someone will always have a reason to complain about change. If 150/300 were to be implemented, you’d have people demanding a refund of tokens. People are funny like that sometimes.)

Orion Magus.5348:

This wasn’t a whine because I wanted an all out price cut because I am greedy and wanted a discount. Rather a suggested solution that would (imo) have a positive effect on the community.

I don’t believe you are the type of person to whine about something like this, however, I feel that the reason the first post happened here in the first place was because of someone’s desire to gripe.

Orion Magus.5348:

Your repeated use of high token values ex. 5,000/10,000 when talking about dungeon weapons was correct in the ratio but the inflated numbers themselves served no purpose to the discussion.

It does serve a purpose. You agree that the numbers are inflated. It shows that despite the ratio being “fair” by the definition given by others so far, the amount is something that actually Isn’t fair because the value of a dagger isn’t 5,000 tokens, nor is a staff worth 10,000 tokens.

The question I ask is: What is the most reasonable amount you should have to pay for a dagger, and why? 5,000 is “inflated” as you said. Which price is more valid, 150 or 300?

Just because people want to pay less, does that mean that it should sell for less?

Orion Magus.5348:

You’re kind of rambling here, but yes if 1h cost 5,000 and 2h cost 10,000 it would be fair.

This is essentially what all of the debate boils down to. If you only care about 2h weapons costing twice as much as 1h weapons without considering their intrinsic worth, then I don’t see how you can consider yourself logical.

I’d like to give a brief redux of the posts leading up to here as well as my final thoughts.

FLFW: Pricing on two 1h weapons is twice as expensive as buying one 2h weapon.
DigitalKirin: So you want to increase the price of 2h weapons to 600?
Mechanix: No, the price of 1h weapons should be dropped to half of the price of 2h weapons.
DigitalKirin: Why not 300/600?
TWMagimay: Fairness is determined when you compare your situation to everyone elses situation. If everything’s equal, everything’s fair.
DigitalKirin: If you base your decisions only on what someone else pays and don’t consider what that item is worth to you, I don’t think you’re being logical.
Orion Magus: People who choose to buy two 1h weapons are being penalized compared to people buying one 2h weapon.
DigitalKirin: Okay, but people are still buying two 1h weapons for their setups. Perhaps even with the increased cost over 1h weapons, buying the weapons is still worth it to them.
Orion Magus: The fact of the matter is that there is a price difference. Fairness dictates that 2h weapons cost double the price of 1h weapons.
DigitalKirin: But is 5000 tokens a fair price for a 1h weapon? You’d be okay with paying 5,000 tokens so long as anyone who buys a 2h weapon has to pay 10,000?
Orion Magus: Yes.

I find it interesting that people were so caught up in the issue of equity, they never noticed that I never denied equity. My first posts basically said, “Why not 300/600?” To this end, Orion Magus and I agree that 300/600 is a good price.

People initially wanted cheaper, but their only reason for cheaper was “because it’s fair.” But “fairness” in this case is merely an excuse to hide behind so that people could complain about 1h weapons being too expensive. “Fairness” as the definition others have given it so far means that 300/600 is fair, just as 5,000/10,000 is also fair.

What is strange to me is that people were so caught up with the issue of equity (everything has to be absolutely fair) that some people were willing to give up the value of intrinsic worth(how much time are you willing to spend to obtain this item?).

Final note:

I’ve seen a lot of things in mmo forums, but I think this is the first retelling of a Biblical parable. Kudos.

I’m so glad you enjoyed, Amos. I did have to stretch the intention of said Biblical parable a good bit, but I really enjoyed the overall results.

Overall, I hope people learned a good bit about themselves through this. What are you willing to give up so that things will be fair?

TWMagimay had mentioned briefly the Bolshevik Revolution, however, I figured talking about Communism would have been too easy of a target. >_> Plus, someone had already complained about RL topics being introduced into the debate.

Orion Magus.5348:

It would make more sense to look at it as I can pay 1,000 tokens for a sword and shield, OR I could pay 1,000 tokens for a Great sword. Every player has the same option… how is this vengeful?

What about 10,000 tokens for a sword+shield or Gswd? If you got 69 tokens per run of a dungeon, that’d be… 145 runs. Would you get dungeon weapons if they required you to do this?

Orion Magus.5348:

I didn’t misunderstand what opportunity cost means, it just makes no sense for you to bring it up here since it is never beneficial (from a cost perspective) to buy 2 one handed weapons over 1 two handed weapon. Thus to “maximize your spending power” a player should always buy a two handed weapon. If this was the case why even have one handed weapons in the game… are they a trap?

Taken one step further, should the thief class not be played since players won’t be able to maximize their spending power due to class weapon selection limitations? There is only 1 two handed weapon for the thief so either they buy 2 one handed weapons or don’t weapon swap.

End of the day 2 one handed weapons offer comparable power to 1 two handed weapon so why the pricing disparity?

When a person creates a character, how often is Cost of weapon the #1 priority behind choosing class, build, traits?

Often, a player starts with something like “I want to play a Thief!” or “I want to play some kind of Support build!” The Desire to play x class or y build then eventually translates into the Value a player places on the weapon that will support such builds. Why do some thieves play p/p builds instead of always using shortbow? The cost is obviously more expensive as you’ve pointed out. Because the value of playing the build they Want to play is worth it.

Value, an attribute a player gives to an object, may sometimes be even linked to a non-monetary function of the object, such as aesthetics or prestige. Have you ever bought a piece of armor just for sheer looks and immediately transmuted it onto an existing piece of armor?
What if someone wanted Pow/Tough/Vit armor from SE, but loved the looks of the Arah dungeon set? Getting the Arah skins will essentially double the token expense but increase their stat performance by 0%. That is “unfair” by your definition (twice the price for the same performance) – once they’ve gotten their first set, should they be allowed to get the Arah skins for free just to transmute?

Dead.7385:

Just make the 2hs cost 300 and the 1hs cost 150. They would essentially be the exact same and 2hs would receive a discount.

My first post question was: Why not 2h weapons as 600?

So again, I ask, what is the justification in taking the 300 token axe and making it 150? Why not take all 2h weapons and make then 600?

The best justification I received for reducing the cost of the 300 token weapon was “because I prefer it”.

Just because we want something to be cheaper doesn’t justify a price drop. A price is set because that’s the price the seller deems it is worth. If the buyer says “that’s not worth it” they are free to pick from any of the sellers competitors a comparable item, or find a substitute item that will satisfy them.

Dead.7385:

Please stop using comparison to real life or anything like it. It….just….doesn’t…work.

TWMagimay was the one who used RL comparisons. (French revolution, October revolution, slavery.)