Guild Wars 2

Most likely this post:

Anierna.6918:

@ Sarah: The objective of PvE is to complete it as quickly as possible. Zerk/assassins is optimal for achieving that. It also forces a player to becomes better because it eliminates his margin for error. Anyone who does not accept this is delusional. I’m fine with you being delusional; that’s your choice. But the buck stops when you try passing your delusions onto others. Spreading misinformation to innocent little pugs is a travesty. You’d be a better help to the community by refraining from saying anything at all.

From what I can tell, most people usually take offense when being called delusional. They usually also take offense when being told they’re spreading misinformation. And in such a hurt state, people usually tend to lash out as well. She probably took down the post to say, “Well if you want me to refrain from saying anything at all, then fine. I’ll show you how my refraining from saying anything is actually a detriment to the community.”

Creslin.1758:

Hmm okay, I was also interested to see what the community felt about stacking. And at least from the responses here, it seems like everyone likes stacking lol.

It’s not an issue of like or not like. It’s like saying “Oh, I see you use a hammer to hit nails into the wall. You must like hammers.”

The tool is there. It makes the most sense to use it in certain situations.

Creslin.1758:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Nemesis.8593:

The reward is usually as meaningful as the struggle/journey to obtain that reward… Ever heard the saying “the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory” ?

If you put it like that… why would you even want to spend any time in a dungeon, just have a starting vendor with all best gear in the game…

But to swing to the other end of the spectrum as illogically as you’ve swung your way: why not do all dungeons in white gear with 0 traits spent and dodge unbound? Your struggle would be most epic thus, your “victory” would be most sweet.

Hehe funny, but I don’t think you got what we was saying.

The value of anything is partially defined by its cost…in essence, how difficult it is to obtain. For example, truffles are valuable, they are difficult to obtain…corn is not valuable and is easy to obtain.

The same principle applies to GW2. If a dungeon reward is easily obtainable, the value of it will go down. It doesn’t matter if you put yourself personally through hell to get the reward…if everyone else can get it easily, it will still be worth crap.

It’s kind of like, if you won first place in an Olympic event and your prize was a $20 Starbucks gift card. It doesn’t matter that you “won” the gift card by completing an incredibly difficult olympic event, it’s still only worth $20.

My point was that his example (an item dispenser in lieu of a dungeon run) is as illogical as making a task unreasonably difficult on yourself.
———————————
I do find it interesting that you’re a strong proponent of the experience of the dungeon and yet have come with this argument with a monetary/extrinsic basis. If anything, the saying Nemesis used, “the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory,” is entirely intrinsic. It means that I will gain that much more satisfaction even as more obstacles come my way because I will have overcome them.

If you were truly only concerned with the experience of doing a dungeon, the argument of monetary function shouldn’t come into it.

Creslin.1758:

Next, to everyone who keeps saying some variant of “if you don’t like it, don’t do it.” I don’t think you’re getting the problem…the problem isn’t that I don’t personally like stacking. The problem is that the combat design of the game makes it so an incredibly cheesy and boring tactic is by far the most effective way to play.

I see that as a game design flaw. It’s kind of like how in the original Mortal Kombat you have all these moves, yet sweep kicking someone in the corner seemed to by far me the most effective way to play. There’s all this cool stuff in the game…but you wind up only using one move because none of the other ones are as effective.

I think most people understand your argument. The thing is that we really don’t see developer response/interaction in this forum. If your audience was the developers, then this really isn’t the right place to address the issue.

Thus, it comes down to two options: Let someone else (Anet) do something about it. Do something about it yourself.

Since ANet probably won’t do anything about it (the core mechanics that enable stacking are very integral to the functioning of this game), your other option is to take the initiative and gather a group of like-minded individual who share your values and enjoy the game as you see fit.

All we’re saying is that doing something about it yourself is better because the results are immediate, and they aren’t sweeping changes that negatively affect other players.

Creslin.1758:

It’s really funny how many people simply don’t get that all their achievements in a video game are meaningless. Video games should be played for the experience of playing it.

Other people might value other things… who am I to tell them that what they value is meaningless? Value is something you personally attach to an object, person or idea. Hence the saying of “one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.”

Personally, for me, I also agree that video games are played for the experience of playing it. But that also means that when I experience something, I don’t just store that experience and do nothing with it. Experience should change you.

One way to demonstrate this is to do thing you weren’t capable of doing before. Being able to skip monsters is a form of demonstrating experience. You understand a monster’s attacks well enough to slip by them.

Nemesis.8593:

The reward is usually as meaningful as the struggle/journey to obtain that reward… Ever heard the saying “the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory” ?

If you put it like that… why would you even want to spend any time in a dungeon, just have a starting vendor with all best gear in the game…

But to swing to the other end of the spectrum as illogically as you’ve swung your way: why not do all dungeons in white gear with 0 traits spent and dodge unbound? Your struggle would be most epic thus, your “victory” would be most sweet.

Edit: Semi on the off-topic- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

Creslin.1758:

But why? Like I said in an earlier post, around release we didn’t do any of this stacking crap and we got through dungeons without a problem.

Why is it that now all of a sudden stacking is an intrinsic part of the combat system that cannot be removed?

The core mechanics that enable stacking (no collision, range dependant buffs/debuffs, having to be next to someone to be able to res them, Line of Sight/Monster AI, etc.) have been in the game since day 1.

Nobody thought to stack then, but then someone asked a question: “I wonder how we can do this better?”

Then they kept asking that question.

Creslin.1758:

I’m sure they would run lower fractals if I asked them, but honestly I’d rather not be the guy slowing everyone down lol.

A friend wouldn’t have a problem helping you to catch up. Ask them. If you were my friend, that’s what I’d do.

You could get a friend to post the lfg and collect the cash before telling the people to join your group.

Raven.3248:

AND FYI i do noob runs
so dont get on MY case

Doubly agreed. I also do PuG runs and I accept any experience level. However, one can only teach if the student is willing to learn.

warllockmaster.1379:

Yes those words are respect less-but are they wrong? To me they are not.
I could sugar-coat it, but that is not how I do things.

Interestingly enough, I think most of the regulars in the dungeon subforums make posts like this: to the point, no sugar-coating.

warllockmaster.1379:

Also I didn’t ask for constructive posts, I said if you want my respond you gotta be constructive, a huge difference my friend.

It’s very possible they weren’t looking for a response, just pointing out the contradictory nature in which you walk into the dungeon subforum as a relative unknown, tell everyone that we need a great community, then turn around and tell people that they’re selfish and mean, that they’re whiners who claim to be skilled but cheat, and dungeon sellers (of which many of the regulars here are) are just cheaters.

Piling generally negative comments in your posts does not produce a positive community. You’re generally shooting yourself in the foot.

If anything, I’d say sarahfull has her heart in the right place by volunteering her time to try to take new players through dungeons. If you want to promote positive change, it’s better to do it that way.

Lastly, while I don’t want to hijack your other thread, I would recommend videos of dungeon runs with running commentary if you have your heart set on making a dungeon guide. Wall of texts tend to be glazed over.

kyubi.3620:

going all or nothing mode on an anti melee boss is given praise.

Lupi is moreso anti-ranged than anti-melee.

In range, you don’t trigger his kick or his uppercut. However, in range, you have to deal with his teleport(Lupine Blast), single target projectile attack (Necrid Bolt), and his bubble (Necrid Trap).

I feel like it’s smarter for people with low experience to range phase 1 (so they don’t get kicked), then melee 2 and 3.

Did you fight King Adelbern at the end of your instance? If yes, then you probably did story mode. Story mode doesn’t reward Tears. Only the Explorable modes reward Ascalonian Tears.

Hello, if you’re interested in a guild on Stormbluff Isle that is casual yet does guild missions, PvE and WvW, I’d like to put forth my Guild for your consideration.

www.NoblePhantasm.com

We’re a friendly group of people interested in enjoying content to its fullest without having to sell our souls to achieve endgame. We seek a family friendly environment and believe strongly in hiring for attitude and training for skill. If you’re interested, please contact me here via PM or ingame under the name Genevieve Talbot. You may also contact our other officers: Nina Tarug or Ara.

Thanks for your time!

The goal of Noble Phantasm is to go as far as this game will allow without selling our souls to get there. Most of us come from an excellent gaming background and left it because of the negativity and competitive attitude attached to that style. Win, lose, or fail, we’re going to press forward and live or die, we do it together and we have fun. If your goal is enjoyment in a clean, work-safe, no-pressure environment, then you found home. Otherwise, this likely won’t be the guild for you.

Guild Leader: Genevieve Talbot
Guild Officers: Nina Tarug; Ara; Quickspire
Server: Stormbluff Isle
Website: http://www.noblephantasm.com
Status: Recruiting

A Bit About Ourselves
Noble Phantasm has been around for over 7 years and has experienced incredible success through games such as WoW, Aion, and SWTOR. At our core, we’re a group of people from different parts of the world with different background and different lifestyles who all decided at some point that we wanted a guild that aimed for the top and that shot to experience end-game content, but did not want to have to join a hardcore, crude, competitive guild where you’re always fighting to perform better than the guy next to you or risk removal.

We don’t think you should have to send your children away whenever you play because the language is too foul and the content is too M rated. For this reason, Noble Phantasm focuses first on a clean and friendly environment. We have a motto of hire for attitude and train for skill. We’re looking first and foremost for people who can add something to our community, get along with other people, and can handle keeping things PG13 for the people who have kids.

After that though, we do press for the big leagues and will be fighting to own keeps, taking out world bosses, and accomplishing everything end game has to offer. We’ve been highly successful with this in the past and plan to continue to do as we’ve always done.

What are we looking for?
What we’re looking for are people interested in our hardcore/casual balance. We’re looking for people who have a drive to push to the end but similarly don’t want to do it by sacrificing a part of your soul to deal with kids or adults who’ve never grown up and think it’s fun to continually talk about their non-existent made-up sex life or put others down because it’s the only way for them to feel good about themselves or cuss every couple words because the kids think it makes them sound like adults.

If you think you’re a decent player and can positively contribute to NP’s fun and kind of goofy environment, then please toss us an application and hop onto our website to introduce yourself or ask us any question you might have, either in-game or through forum PMs.

What can we offer you?
Although we spend most of our time playing PvE, we love all aspects of the game, from dungeons and fractals to WvW and PvP. We’re a diverse bunch, from experienced gamers to new players working on their first character, so you’ll always find someone with similar interests and goals, be it playing Arah explorable, defending SBI in Eternal Battlegrounds, running FotM or leveling your first char or an alt.

We currently have all Guild Missions unlocked and run guild events 3 times a week. We also have our own private PvP arena to play as a guild, practice or test new builds. Finally, we also have a Mumble server to organize guild runs or just to chat and have fun.

Here is a short video that show you a bit of who we are and a bit of how we roll: both in the serious and not so serious.
http://youtu.be/XcR4IfSmeYA

If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please feel free to whisper me in-game (Genevieve Talbot), mail me (DigitalKirin.9714), send me a PM or just respond to this thread here.

No word from ANet.

Plus, it’s better to sell them for 4.95 silver than to just throw them away. o_o)-b

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

Think of it like this… Thor from the Marvel comics. He is the Asgardian god of thunder and has a level of strength and power that humans could never hope to achieve.
Despite that, the Hulk (who I believe is considered very much mortal) can and has fought Thor numerous times in the past. And I believe that Thor has lost a few of those fights…

Point is, I think the Six Human Gods have more in common with Thor and the Asgardians, rather then being considered the all powerful creator of all things.

“There’s only one God, ma’am, and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t dress like that.”

What fractal will you research if we vote for you?

Chaotic Storm.2815:

I’m personal not a regular in alot of dungeons so it always kitten es me off when suddenly everyone makes a bolt for it without a word and then gets mad at me because I didn’t know and kicks me. I say make all mobs unpassible and if people have an issue with it all I got for you is "go join the champion trains if your only there for the money.

Hello! As a non regular, perhaps it would be a good idea to state that you don’t know exactly where the skips are before the run starts. So long as you didn’t join a run that specifically stated Speedrun, chances are good that you’ll have someone willing to let you know when/where the skips are.

Best of luck!

Zaxares.5419:

Maybe we should form a coalition of dungeon/Fractal players who prefer to kill rather than skip?

Funny enough, someone did try to make a guild that did that (I think they called it Kill All Things [KAT] or something), and invited all the people who wanted to run dungeons without skips. When last I heard, they said that it was a complete failure.

However, despite this, I would say that if you really want to do dungeons without skips, finding a guild/group of like minded individuals is probably the best way. The second best way is to make sure your lfg description states your intention to kill everything very specifically.

http://youtu.be/kEbEMjKitA4

The people who made the NPCs probably have more freedom in their dev kit to adjust their dimensions.

LordByron.8369:

Sirendor.1394:

Not sure if I’m supposed to laugh or cry now. You must be one of those 1% rich players.

totally not…you can see me frequently asking for TP flipping nerf ….the most broken aspect of the game….

And i know some players that profit it a lot with many legendaries, T3 and thousands golds having issues to complete cof1 <.<

Sirendor is most likely talking about the OP.

On another note, while I don’t TP flip, I appreciate the fact that there is a gold sink built into the TP. It’s good for the economy.

Burnfall.9573:

Simply as the title states, damages are out of control; 9k-35k are inexcusable and unjust.

So my encouragement to Arena.net, please cap Damage. You did extraordinarily well with conditions, so why not implement it across the board?

So here is my suggestion and solution ; all Aoe’s Damage; 3k cap, everything else-5k cap

And the positiveness of all of this, less nerfs and more freedom to balance the classes and the game.

So there, no more outrageous notorious game breaking damages.

No more Favoritism, and no more Elitist ism, Unfairness and definitely,no more Op classes.

Because at the end of the day, every class will be able to have equal access to the same pool of damages, like other classes.

Your thoughts, suggestions, oppinions?

Not a bad idea, but I think there’s only one logical conclusion to this thought process.

Cap all damage at 1.

Additionally, have all attacks take 1 second to complete so that every action you take is 1 DPS. We could do the same for NPCs as well. Then we could balance health a lot easier too. Every player would have 5 health. That would allow you to survive exactly 5 attacks. Conditions might be a challenge in this system, but they were process intensive anyways, so best to change all conditions to direct damage. After all, it doesn’t make sense that you could bleed a structure, right?

The fairness ramifications would be tremendous. No more worrying about gear checks. Ascended gear? Not necessary, instafixed the Nov2012 patch in one fell swoop. Worried about ANet nerfing your build in the next patch? Doesn’t matter anymore, since everyone does 1 DPS regardless of their build. Worried that thief will instagib you with a heartseeker? It’ll take him 5 over a period of 5 seconds to kill you now.

Heithinn.6508:

UGH, message too long with all the quotes, but anyway…

Yep – Damage is not my first priority. However you didn’t notice/mention I get a ~15% damage increase from traits. 10% For low Endurance – since I dodge to stay alive and Heal I am low 99% of the time. 1% for each boon I have – 95% of the time I have Aegis, Retallaition, Regeneration, Protection & Might, all of which stay on me longer due to Boon Duration. I’m glad you’re fine with a 7. I’m fine with my spec.

Being comfortable forever suits me just fine, why would I want to be uncomfortable with something I do to relax and have fun? If I didn’t have other toons I enjoy playing as well I’d mix it up a bit, but I built this toon to be Support, and that’s what she does.

Healing, Buffing, Reviving, providing combo fields.. I know, I may as well just go to a corner and /sit because I’m not pulling big numbers huh.

Yep, I use it here too.

Again, you’re assuming I’m useless because I don’t pull big numbers. And you’re right, I never will be in a perfect group, but it’s not because “I’m a support guardian” it’s because of the variety of people, some good, some bad. Me switching out my spec is not going to improve group quality. I do have great pug groups, because I try to prevent bad ones.
————————

I have shown a spec where a staff is a viable part of a play style.

One of those builds/flavors being Full on Support, just like your Full on Damage.

I’m pretty sure the intent shared by all is to make it through the dungeon. If they want speed runs, all zerkers, etc… they generally post it in the LFG advertisement.

Seriously? I could give 2 squats what someones spec is, and I am not so judgmental that I scope out everyone in my group to criticize their choice. The only time enjoyment is sacrificed is when some rude elitist ruins the fun vibe the rest of the group has.. and people like that are easily replaced.

You’re right, damage isn’t your first priority, it’s your last priority. As you said before, you don’t care about damage. The two traits you mentioned are minor traits that you pick up “along the way” to more defensive options. In terms of resource management, your use of your points into 30honor/30virtues instead of 10zeal/25radiance is a loss of DPS, not an improvement.

If you’re okay with being comfortable, then there isn’t much I can say to change your mind, and I’m cool with that. But facts remain, the utility you provide to a group will be lower because you’re neglecting 1/3 of your job duties in a group. So instead, I encourage you to make sure to play with only like minded people to minimize the amount of conflict you might come across if you happen to party up with someone who plays this game to have fun by challenging and improving themselves. You’ll be happy and having fun, and they’ll be happy and having fun. It would be a win-win for everyone.

As far as enjoyment being sacrificed, that happens when people knock heads due to conflicting methods of having fun. If you blame “elitists” don’t forget that “casuals” are just as equally to blame. The solution is to stop blaming each other and start being mindful of each other. Stop saying “I don’t care” and start saying “I care.” If you want to run a build of one type, make sure it’s okay with the rest of your group. If you’re the sole “zerker elitist” in a group of “bunker support casuals” just gracefully bow out. Same with the opposite. And if you’re in a group where someone bows out, don’t look down on them for leaving. They’re saving everyone lots of potential conflict and headache.

Nuklbone.1462:

Which is exacty what the Staff vid shows.. But just because it’s a staff that vid is some how irrelivent get over yourselves you have opinions like every one else the only difference is you guys are trying to force yours onto other players and make them do something for you… They’re not playing their toon for you.. They’re playing it for themselves..

The video isn’t irrelevant because of the staff. The video is irrelevant because we’re discussing a group setting and the video is a solo video. However, if you wanna discuss Obal’s solo videos of staff vs his DPS video, then I do entreat you to do so.

I would like to point out your last line. “They’re not playing their toon for you.. They’re playing it for themselves..” That’s just the problem. It seems strange to me to call things like zerker builds selfish when this is the attitude people carry in about their own build.

Nuklbone.1462:

I guess the difference is I play the game to have fun. I don’t care what build you run if you’re in a group with me I’m not enough of a Kitten hole to tell you to leave or kick you you’re on the game for the same reason as me to have fun some people just have that mindset of an kitten hat..

The difference isn’t actually that you play the game to have fun. We all play the game to have fun. The difference lies in how we accomplish this idea of fun. If you wanna kick back, relax and enjoy a 4 hr Arah P4, please by all means do, so long as the company you keep shares a like mind. And I would say to the people who want zerk only, please make sure you specify in your lfgs that you want zerk only. It’s when the two groups cross that everyone comes into conflict. Because the METHOD of how we have fun is at cross purposes.

If everyone grouped with people of the same mindset, I think we’d all be a lot happier and collectively all have more fun. We just have to CARE enough to take the extra step to seek out those of our like minds.

Nuklbone.1462:

The viability of either builds DPS or Staff is not what’s really being discussed here because not every group in the game wants to run by everything go right to the boss and clear

You’re absolutely right. The Viability isn’t being discussed here. The OP asked why people use staff instead of something like GS or Sword/focus. This discussion is about efficiency. The staff is not efficient as a main weapon during a boss fight.

Nuklbone.1462:

I know for sure if Luke had one of the good ones in his Solo Lup vid he would not have almost gotten 1 shotted at 2:21 of the vid..

The problem with using a solo dungeon boss example where the debate has been with group dungeon boss examples is that a solo run requires a different mindset. There’s nobody to rely on but yourself. You only have 3 utility slots to fiddle with. You make concessions in your build to optimize survivability juuuust enough to survive.

Maybe Luke almost got one shotted. But he specced smartly and didn’t. That’s why videos like this are impressive. Because it highlights a person who intelligently managed his resources to do something that 5 people often have difficulty doing.

Re: Putting people down. I am fine with him running a build that isn’t zerk. But you have to join a group that has to be absolutely okay with you running said build. The same goes for the opposite, if you dislike people who run zerkers because they go down too much, make sure you specify in your lfg that you don’t want zerkers.

My arguments to the pros and cons of the build aren’t a personal insult to him. I’m sure he’s a very nice person. If you are talking about which is better and which isn’t, I will debate the validity of tactics in as professional manner as I can.

Nuklbone.1462:

exactly.. And who’s say these people aren’t? Just because they don’t follow suit and make themselves dps machines. Run with one of these people who really know how to play the build correctly..Im sure you will be surprized..

I am always surprised… that it takes 3 passes to kill evolved destroyer instead of 1. Then I find out that only myself and the engi is zerker.

spoj.9672:

Id prefer to do a 5min cof p1 with no deaths. Or no cof p1 at all.

Baby steps, spoj, that’s all I’m doing.

Heithinn.6508:

No, I completely understand what you’re saying. It’s not as if I have 0 attack, I still have 2.4k attack, it’s not as if I set out to NOT to damage.

The reason I built this toon like this is because 1) When I first started out on GW2 I wanted something I was comfortable with. 2) I don’t want all my toons for full on damage, I want each to have it’s place. 3) I pug out a lot in LFG and the general population of “pugs” don’t pay attention and don’t care about anyone else in the group OR they have never done the dungeon before and need the extra support.

And yes, I know full Zerkers CAN do all that stuff.. but the majority don’t. They only heal when they need healing, they only aegis when they need aegis. And when they are on CD they get hit like a truck because they have barely any mitigation stats – generally only from the 5-10 trait points they used outside of their main power traits.

SO, in a perfect group where everyone dodged and used their available damage reduction skills, and group buffs on their well rounded toons – I would have no desire to be a support guardian, because I wouldn’t be useful. I have had over a year to see how useful I am.

The original question of this thread was why a guardian would use a staff, not the merit or viability of anyone’s build or play style. And though I could go full out damage I choose not to on this toon. I choose to play a role Anet intended for my profession, even if it’s not the most popular. Everyone else can play however they want, just like me.

Just talking about your +attack is misleading. You have no crit, no crit dmg., the weapons you’re using are the worst weapons for straight up damage. The only damage points you traited are the 5 points you used outside of your defensive options. The only reason you happen to have power in your gear is because Cleric’s has power on it. You were right the first time. You don’t care about damage. For the amount of potential damage you could do, on a scale of 1-10, your build does a 1. Btw, I’m not asking you to do a 10. I’m fine with a 7.

1. Being comfortable with something is perfectly fine. However, being comfortable forever isn’t good. If you really are a person of competence that you say you are, why not start mixing in some DPS stats and seeing how it affects your support ability/survivability? Then, improve your gameplay through resource management and wash, rinse, repeat.

2. Each toon having its place is fine. But remember that dungeons are a team game. People rely on each other to handle all three aspects of DPS, Support, Healing. You never refuted the fact that each player is responsible for all three. If you’re not fulfilling the potential of all three aspects to the best of your ability, then you are bringing down your team.

I believe that a support/defense guardian is better focused into WvW. Zergs crashing into each other require proper coordination and buffing. The danger of fighting living breathing intelligent people is much higher than fighting AI. Defensive support is way more important here. It’s also why I (almost) never take a zerk build into WvW. (I only do on my thief so I can burst down squirrels.)

3. I Pug a lot as well. Pugs can be unpredictable. But what you’re doing is essentially forfeiting having Great PUG groups to try to prevent a bad Pug group from being bad. You say “In a perfect group … I would have no desire to be a support guardian”. The problem is you’ll never be in a perfect group… because you’ll be using a support guardian.
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The original question directly relates to build viability because the OP sees guards using staves during boss fights and wants to know the thought process behind someone choosing to use this weapon.

“a role Anet intended for my profession”: ANet’s intent is to provide tools to allow players to create many different builds – some offensive, some defensive, and some inbetween, all with different flavors.

The players that you play with have their own intent that you need to consider as well. Don’t ignore your fellow players’ intent by pointing to ANet when you’re running a dungeon.

You are absolutely free to play how you want, and if you choose to continue playing a clericy staff/mace guardian, it’s not like there’s anything I could Really do to stop you. However just know that you may be sacrificing some of your teammates’ enjoyment of this game by bringing down their gameplay experience if you choose to team up with people who Aren’t looking for a cleric guardian to run dungeons with.

Nuklbone.1462:

If your team isn’t made of cotton then it doesn’t matter when things die. I’d rather have a team that can survive as well as damage rather than a entire team thatcan be one shotted..

I do believe that surviving is a very important thing in a dungeon. Dying too much would be self-defeating in the goal of doing a dungeon, and it’s just not fun.

However, let’s say you do a no death CoF P1 run in 40 minutes. Would you be perfectly happy doing CoF P1 forever at 40 minutes, or would you care to see if you could do a CoF P1 run at 39 minutes? What if you do a CoF P1 run at 39 minutes with no death? Etc.

The point is to improve and push the boundary of your skill ceiling without self-nerfing yourself. Use everything you have intelligently and tactically.

Heithinn.6508:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Heithinn.6508:

I don’t care how much damage I do – that’s not my role.

Would you be okay partying with a thief who tells you, “I don’t care about using my heals to keep myself alive – that’s not my role.”?

Well.. this isn’t even a proper analogy.. I didn’t say “I only heal myself, screw damage and everyone else”.

I said I play support – my damage is not my first priority, Keeping everyone alive and buffed IS. And last time I checked more people alive with higher numbers getting hit by less damage is better for a group than one selfish zerker guardian swirling around with a greatsword.

This is a perfectly reasonable analogy. In this game, every character has responsibility over three roles: DPS, Support(boons/damagebuffs/survivabilitybuffs), and healing. You willfully choose to give up damage to produce as much +healing and +survivability, right? So why can’t a thf give up one of those roles (healing) to focus on one of the other roles? If your mindset works as intended, then his damage should make up for your lack, and your healing should make up for his lack.

The misconception you have is that doing damage is selfish. This is incorrect. If a monster dies faster, then it can deal less damage to the team. That actually means that increasing the speed of kills in a dungeon will help your teammates out.

Let me put an example before you:
Would you rather have a 15 second fight with 5 seconds of protection and 2 aegis, or would you rather have a 3 minute fight with permaprotect and 5 aegis uses? Which one do you think would actually lead to someone being more likely to die?

Edit: Regarding “Selfish zerker guardian” You do know that even a full zerk guardian can provide aegis, protection, reflects, heals, etc. too, right?

Double Edit: “I said I play support” You also said “I don’t care” which to me is an insult to anyone in your group. When you’re on a team, every action the team does matters, and to say that “you don’t care” about one aspect is really disrespecting your team. Keeping your team alive matters, absolutely. But so does making things dead before they can kill your team.

Heithinn.6508:

I don’t care how much damage I do – that’s not my role.

Would you be okay partying with a thief who tells you, “I don’t care about using my heals to keep myself alive – that’s not my role.”?

AntiGw.9367:

clint.5681:

Well you will have to get over your personal opinion over how you think dungeons should be run and get with the program buddy.

Except that the “program” is not standing in one spot spamming 1 skill.

He’s absolutely right. You just need to have auto attack on so you don’t have to hit 1 so much. Plus, dodge occasionally into the wall.

Hi all,

This thread’s more or less done, but I just wanted to add a post directed towards those of my own server, SBI. First, I’m very proud to be a member of SBI – I’ve been on here since BWE3. I’ve avoided the sheer caustic toxicity of this thread, but I decided to post because one of my guildies encouraged me, and I wanted to give this message.

This post is about respect in the long term. Some of you guys have been on here since we were T1 butting heads with JQ and BG and HoD. Back then, Stormbluff used to be called Steelbluff. We loved to scrap and we still do – being out there this week I saw a lot of people fight their hearts out. This fight we got a couple of good punches to the chin. It’s our job to grin at those punches and hit back just as hard. Because we’re Steelbluff.

You know what people called JQ back then? JQQ, because they were always the first to QQ about some perceived double teaming and such. Now, I’m not here say whether YB and EB was or wasn’t. (I was in the Lord’s room on Thanksgiving with Bannok when we held it for like 3 ticks with no doors – EBay on one side, YB on the other.) I’m just saying that back then, nobody respected JQQ.

Why is respect important? You know the kid who cries easily gets beat up the most on the schoolyard. In WvW, all 3 servers are bullies trying to bully each other. Show a little QQ and you get focused by the other 2. Similarly, show a little too much bluster and you also become a target. If you want to lessen the chance of future 2v1s, fight with honor. If someone from our server actually did go to another server as a saboteur and got caught doing so, it’s only natural the response we received.

I’m gonna go back to being quiet now. Because I believe that Stormbluff Isle has the ability to “Speak softly, but carry a big stick.” I’d rather that these words on the forums not define what SBI is, but our actions.

See you all on the battlefield.

Interesting! Well at least they didn’t reset everyone’s WvW level down to 30.

AKGeo.6048:

Some might say that you’re being selfish by demanding other players bring skills that benefit you.

All classes are stand-alone as long as they aren’t the only ones facing the mobs in dungeons. Each class has its own evasion, condi removal, CC and damage skills and traits. Sure, party synergy helps, but isn’t required.

The thing is, if each person bring a little extra support to the table, each person is receiving 4 people’s worth of support. And by support, I mean things like Wall of Reflect, Aegis, stability, banners, spotter, frost spirit, fire fields, water fields, regen, condition cleanse. You can literally give all of those without sacrificing any personal DPS. In return you get your Survivability and DPS increased by a lot.

So what makes more sense? 5 people who don’t share any buffs doing a dungeon as self contained individuals, or 5 teammates working together to kill things quickly and keep each other safe and alive?

In the end, just doing your own thing instead of build for a team setting makes you so much weaker.

Here’s some food for thought:
A group that reliably stacks 25 might through blasts gains 875 power and condition damage (at lvl80). A FULL set of exotic zerk or soldier armor+trinkets+ruby orbs would give about 833 power.

So srsly gaiz, give a little, get a lot. Be a team player.

Edit: I’m reminded of a Pentecostal preacher I once heard. He said, “y’know, if you’re saved, you’re saved and you’re going to heaven regardless. But when I go up there, I want my Father to say to me, ‘Well Done!’ I wouldn’t want to go up and hear him say, ‘Weeell… done.’”

In other words, both teams can finish the dungeon, but which one makes you feel like you really did well, and which one makes you feel like you had to slog through it?

justkoh.4073:

@DigitalKirin – thanks for your advice. As above, I may have mis-represented myself here. Currently, I’d just like to see new content having only done AC and CM casually. If I ever want to spend much more time in dungeons, I will do as you’ve suggested.

Ah, if you’re doing a casual run, make sure when you post a dungeon LFG that you specifically state that it’s a casual run, or if you join a party, make sure they say “casual” or “anyone welcome”. It will save you heartache in the future because other types of runs tend to want people using more of the mainstream builds.

SoliSnake.9457:

i dont say mesmer is bad only i pref other class for coe

Ah. I agree, I prefer bringing my warrior over my mesmer to CoE. See, I read “mesmer is a waste to me” as saying mesmer was bad – probably something lost in the translation. But your clarification helps.

Alissah.9281:

Haath.7391:

Yeah, this game has an extraordinary community
The only slightly irritating problem I’ve had, is that since I’m in the EU, a good 25% of people I get matched with seem to know no english

I have the same issue, except for me 33% dont type/talk at all :P.

I have the same issue, except 66% of them type/talk in internetese.

SoliSnake.9457:

COE hammer ele with fiery gs is awesome guard for cond remover and reflect with higt dps party mesmer is a waste for me
…
just tell if i have say something wrong

I think mesmer is perfectly fine for CoE. I like them because they can very reliably strip boons from Mark T. Bearce, which means people don’t have to bother losing DPS to the turrets.

To the OP. I highly recommend you look into zerker gear for one of your characters. Make that your designated Dungeon character. If you’re not comfortable with full zerker right off the bat, start with knights armor and then swap pieces out for zerker til you’re used to it. I highly recommend looking at the dungeon meta builds for whichever class you settle on.

If you end up getting bored with that class, start gearing up another class with zerker and read up on the meta build for that class too.

The meta builds have been very thoughtfully laid out to optimize damage and provide necessary support to maximize your teammates as well. Let us know on this thread if there’s one class you want to bring to dungeons and I’m sure people will be happy to provide you with solid dungeon-focused builds.

voidwater.2064:

jportell.2197:

any player that just refuses to do anything useful for the party which was the inspiration for this thread.

If they’re doing damage, they’re still doing something useful for the party, even if that’s all they do.

If you want to be more optimal than that, fine, but your builds are not optimal so your criticism seems somewhat hypocritical.

I dunno about the “even if that’s all they do.” I agree that beyond damage you should provide something extra to your party. A party of 5 individuals who don’t share buffs will be weaker than a party of 5 teammates who synergize, share buffs, lay down fields and blast them, etc.

If I had a player who was Only damage focused when they could easily provide more, I would say that they are in the same boat as the people who provide Only support and castrate their damage to do so.

A competent player can provide excellent DPS along with excellent support. (For me, I wrap things like blasting might stacks/putting fire/water fields down in support. I also throw str/disc banners, spotter, and frost spirit and such in support.)

jportell.2197:

Its not that zerk=selfish its that when people play this zerk builds they don’t think to bring utilities and traits that buff their party.

Which simply isn’t true. There are people who use cleric’s gear who use selfish utilities and traits and people who use cleric’s gear who use team oriented utilities and traits. There are people who use zerker gear who use selfish utilities and traits and people who use zerker gear who use team oriented utilities and traits.

Your correlation of zerker and selfish utilities/traits is completely inaccurate. If a person builds themselves selfish, it’s not the gear that makes them selfish.

Ah, Guardian Forum.

I am sure, then, that they have math to substantiate their claims.

DigitalKirin.9714:

I agree that you should review colesy’s post and respond to it in point-by-point style. He was very calm and thorough.

I can’t think of which golem fight in SE you’re talking about that you need scepter. Which path?

jportell.2197:

Sword focus guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in.

Hyperbole carries no weight. Use it less if you want a reasonable discussion. Besides, hammer guardians are always the first ones down in almost every group I am in.

jportell.2197:

Sword/focus also brings absolutely no CC as in no obstructions (grawl fractal) immobilize (scepter/focus+hammer can help immensely on the dredge boss fractal)

So carry a hammer, a gswd, a staff, a scepter, a shield, a focus and a sword. Use the right tool for each encounter that you come across. That is what intelligent people do. Heck some people even carry 2 of certain weapons (having a superior sigil of bloodlust on one version then swapping out when capping out stacks.)

jportell.2197:

I hate to say it actually no I don’ but people don’t bring guards to dungeon for their DPS.

Which is truly unfortunate. Because as you said:

guards DPS can be impressive

However,

if all you care about is maximizing your DPS then run nothing but 5 zerk warriors.

You can achieve more DPS using a slightly more varied group than 5 zerk warriors.

jportell.2197:

There is a reason most dungeon groups want at least one guardian and it’s not because of the guards DPS I promise you that.

You’re right. A good group will want a guardian who can DPS, provide boons, and reflects in an intelligent manner.

The problem with your argumentation is that you feel like people are being 2 dimensional. I said Sword/Focus is really great. You bring up examples where it isn’t. That’s fine. Use other tools in that situation. But the same is true in the opposite. When you run CM and you stack a bunch of riflemen around the corner, you just need reflect and the ability to kill the riflemen quickly. Sword deals more damage than hammer. Therefore sword is more ideal in this situation. There are a multitude of situations out there. Consider something like Lupi. Use the right tool for each situation. In this way, you’ll be a better guardian. You must meditate upon this.

jportell.2197:

And before you get all baddie is bad. I don’t use one handed weapons at all (aside from scepter in necessary fights like the golems in SE) so radiance doesn’t seem very necessary (powerful blades right handed strength etc.)

I agree that you should review colesy’s post and respond to it in point-by-point style. He was very calm and thorough.

I can’t think of which golem fight in SE you’re talking about that you need scepter. Which path?

jportell.2197:

So please tell me what should I run in dungeons give me your amazing build. I can however say that damage modifiers from zeal and radiance are really not all that great I noticed almost no difference in the numbers with and without them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Guardian-Builds
While it doesn’t have a direct link, this would be a good jumping point to explore the various dungeon builds that the dungeon subforum regulars have put together. Choose one and I’m sure someone could supply you a gw2skills.net link.

You should consider the sword/focus. It really is pretty fantastic. I used to use hammer, as I loved the protection it gave, but going to sword/focus really does help kill things faster. Best of luck!

In regards to iDisenchanter, I think that there are other options that are better before needing to equip it. The problem with it is that you’re cutting into your DPS with it. I usually default to Null Field for condition cleansing.

People that push mobs out of melee range. Big pet peeve of mine.

o_o)-b You were super helpful when I came here asking for help with a necro build. Also, I always remember to avoid that one hole on the colossus to avoid pulling a spoj.

Ropechef.6192:

Spoj, Haviz, Swifpaw, Obal, Cookie, Ethics, Bright, Sky Chef, Strife, Brazil, Dub, Wethospu, DnT, HC, SOLO, rT

Imma just add Zelyhn and colesy to that list. I am definitely sure there’s more too.

As a dungeon lurker myself, I echo the sentiments of the OP. You guys seriously have my thanks for the work and theorycrafting you guys do.