Guild Wars 2

Haha, then I won’t hold my breath when I check.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Still need people to leech off on na to get levels. Noone sells ac so that method is not an option. :<

Hi Spoj, I’ll put you on flist and if I happen to do some runs with my guild and we’re short a person, I’ll check for you first.

Alpha’s bugged state happened regardless of wall or not. I haven’t seen it happen in a while as well. Maybe a stealth fix a few months ago?

I am uncertain of what bugged state you’re talking about with Dwayna. Have a youtube vid or anything of this bug?

Leo.8792:

You don’t have to complain because you’re with the meta, the masses, the way it is currently. The people who want change are “complaining” because they want change. they want to play how they want to play i.e not stacking, skipping, zerking, and so on, but can’t because all people care about is the “meta” and will follow it without question. If things were the other way around I’m sure there would be plenty of complaining for the other end.

Everyone always thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

We do complain about people who don’t play the meta. Have you SEEN the funniest player fails thread? We just like to collect them in one spot for easy access instead of always making new threads.

Leo.8792:

The problem is when ever I do try to make a no stacking group, people join it and stack anyway because they don’t care how other people want to play the game they only want to stack and skip. When the group was intended to not do those things, it’s hard to get away from all stacking and skipping when I’m being forced to make new groups time after time because people are so enthralled by the easy methods of stacking they see no other way and will make make sure others do the same.

Kick them for not reading your lfg description?

And while I see you’ve got a guild you’re advertising for, again, find friends who share your common intent.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Players-Against-Stacking-Skipping-Stuff/first

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Remember, the devs designed all the dungeons to be played in disorganized groups of completely random builds with no coordination who run around like chickens with their heads cut off range-kiting bosses to death. that’s a direct quote from the manifesto, in case anyone asks.

I’ve been doing things wrong this whole time.

Brb, uninstalling TS and Mumble.

I feel like the problem with making a “PUG-proof” build is that the universe can always make a puggier PUG.

Leo.8792:

Go on and gang up and attack the person who dares to voice his own opinion that does not fit with the masses of people. Shoot down my distant ideals of a game where people actually play and not mindlessly walk through rolling their faces on the keyboard.

I find it interesting that you say that people are ganging up and attacking you. You are the one to start with the inflammatory accusations.
“Stacking is for players who can’t handle the game and think it’s too hard” I do believe you said.

Leo.8792:

How do you know how much content is in something if all you do is skim the top of what is actually there.

The people of this subforum have run these dungeons countless times and explored a myriad of tactics. They probably have more in-depth knowledge of the run than you do.

Leo.8792:

it is clearly an exploit when players outright make bosses unable to use abilities and attacks.

If stacking to prevent Spider Queen from AoEing you is an exploit, then using Ranged attacks to prevent monsters from meleeing you is an exploit.

Leo.8792:

This is an MMO and MMO’s take time to get through

Certainly. But does that mean that the longer you take to get through a dungeon, the better the experience? If you took 4 hours to do CoF P1 instead of 7 minutes, did you have a better experience? It doesn’t mean that your experience was better at all.

One thing that you CAN do with games is improve your ability to play it. And an easy metric to measure your increase in skill is to cut the time in which you complete a dungeon run.

But seriously, why make this thread? ANet has never addressed stacking as an exploit. It’s wiser to live and let live. Make parties that are no stack/no skip and enjoy your game your way. Let other people enjoy their game their way.

Thaddeus.4891:

Anicetus.1253:

An elementalist with purging flames (s/x) would increase the parties overall damage more than a warrior, even if doing nothing but stacking might

Purging Flames is a Guardian Utility skill. I suppose you mean that an Elementalist with scepter can give 2 blast, and a third with Arcane Waves. But that’s not something that only the elementalist can bring. You can have a Guardian, Elementalist, Ranger or Engineer to create a Fire Field (i don’t count the Longbow Warrior, because its a longbow lol). For the blast, most profession have access to it, but only Warrior, Elementalist and engineers have access to more than 1 blast finisher in their meta DPS build (i can be wrong on that one).

He probably meant Persisting Flames. (Blasted fire finishers grant fury.)

All I can think of is Brutalitops the Magician.

Edit: So having only read the first post before throwing this comment out, I just wanted to say, that I wasn’t posting this in reference to anyone’s picture or anything in particular.

The problem with PUG Guardians is that they usually have this notion that any build is good for dungeons (coughlookingatyoufulltimestaffguardianscough). The problem with PUG Groups is that they’re usually desperate to have guardians and they probably don’t know better.

Guardians can be a very valuable asset in a party. You just need to know what weapons to equip when, and what utilities to use when. You can’t just fulltime only 3 utilities and camp staff and keep your virtues on passive. You have to eke the most out of guardian because their potential utility is quite high.

What kind of LFG Message were you posting when you made your group?

If I may suggest a few messages:

“LFM P#. Casual Run”

or

“LFM P#. Just need a good attitude”

For people like the OP who are interested in learning, there are many helpful people in the dungeon forums. They’ve created mentor programs. If you come with an attitude of willingness to learn, then it doesn’t matter if you’re brand new to the dungeon.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Mentors/first

and

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/New-to-Dungeons-and-want-to-learn/page/2#post3105265

a t s e.9614:

I usually try dredge until my armor is fully broken + 1 naked try for lawls then alt+f4 . Protection is ridiculously overpowered on PvE mobs , u cant damage them and they almost one shot you.

Faith in hilarity of thread restored.

False advertising! I was promised something funny…

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If the mechanics existed, and was just altered, a better description would have been: 20% bonus chance at additional ore mined is replaced with a chance for sprockets.

Reminds me of a Monty Python sketch.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I applaud your efforts for creating this thread. This is actually much better than the threads we usually get with people demanding that ANet change the game to ‘fix’ skipping/stacking.

While I will also be _passs_ing on this as Lilith has, I am going to link this thread on any future ‘please fix stacking/skipping’ threads. Best of luck!

To be honest, I WOULD like to see Anet fix the design flaws that result in the ability to stack and the desire to skip… ALONG WITH corresponding rewards buffs to make those dungeons worthy of my time (and the time of others).

But the good thing about this thread is that instead of coming here bemoaning your fate, you decided to be proactive about your personal in-game experience. Instead of asking someone else to fix your game experience, you are improving it yourself. That should be commended.

Elrey.5472:

I’m glad that i’m not the only one that thinks this way. +1 to the OP

Aden Celeste.3650:

Add me to the “Against Stacking” group.

Bam. Look at that, 2 new people that you can already group with. o_o)-b

I applaud your efforts for creating this thread. This is actually much better than the threads we usually get with people demanding that ANet change the game to ‘fix’ skipping/stacking.

While I will also be _passs_ing on this as Lilith has, I am going to link this thread on any future ‘please fix stacking/skipping’ threads. Best of luck!

Statistically possible, I think you mean to say. Cliffside can’t be rolled twice in a row. Cliffside is a possibility in both the 2nd and 3rd scenario. If it appears in the 2nd scenario, it’s removed from the 3rd as a choice. So your chances of getting dredge increases.

1. You need to do a full 4 scenario run in one sitting. The fourth scenario is one of the boss levels.

2. Expect your times to vary depending on PUGs. Scaling of level affects how much time you spend a little bit too. But yeah. PUGs.

3. Yes.

4. Tips: Look at the dungeon mentor thread and hit up some of the people who might be teaching Fractals. Go with a spirit of listening.

What if you haven’t been kicked…?

They’re currently adding flames to the country armor set.

Darkobra.6439:

I’m really not seeing the scam here. What if he really did transfer over with that gold? What if he just kept doing the same crap without exploring to level? This may very well have been a completely honest transaction.

I’d sure as hell not fork out money to a stranger. Teach a man to fish. But to jump the gun and call this a scam? You may very well have just outed an honest man who you believe actually reads these forums.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I agree, I tend not to just hand out money to strangers as well. I also agree on teaching a man to fish.

However, you’ll notice that this is just an alert that it could have been a scam as it set off multiple red flags for me. Though I took screenshots of the conversation, I did not post this person’s name here. If they read this, then I hope that they avoid asking complete strangers for money in the future as well, as that is very suspicious activity and generally frowned upon socially.

Earlier today I received a whisper from someone who said they were interested in joining my guild and had found my advert posted in the Guild Recruitment section. He wanted to join and do wvw, however, he said, he was on Tc with 3 level 80s and didn’t want to delete them. Long story short, he asked if my guild would be willing to help him transfer from Tc to my server by donating 43 gold. I politely declined for obvious reasons, but still offered that he submit an application and save up to transfer over if he really disliked Tarnished Coast. Temporarily placing him on flist, I noticed his AP was just barely over 200.

This is just a friendly message to my fellow players and Guild Leaders/Officers to please watch yourselves.

Under your keybinds, look for “Target nearest enemy” or “Target next enemy”. Use either or both of these.

raiden.9024:

You can’t read or something?

Hmmm. That’s rather rude to someone who is trying to help you, especially considering what you typed could be quite difficult to read. If you want people to understand you, perhaps consider learning to communicate more effectively before using a knee-jerk reaction insult.

If you don’t have perma-swiftness, you will fall behind others who do have it.

Additionally, look at your leaps. If you’re having difficulty using them, turn off autotarget in your menu. This is how people run past mobs quickly using their charges and leaps. It takes a while to get used to not having autotarget on, but your performance actually goes up (imo) when you learn to not use it.

Guardians have utility teleports… I dunno if they’ll work the same way, but you’ve got merciful intervention and judge’s intervention.

Have you used Altruistic Healing…?

It heals the guardian (and only the guardian) when you give boons to your allies/yourself.

Edit: Wiki is nice, but actual real world use is better. I encourage you to go and test it in game for a bit.

My curiosity has been piqued! Someone PM meh

Creslin.1758:

So, it’s cool to disagree on a forum or whatever, that’s fine.

The only thing I don’t think is valid is when you say something like “you are wasting your time by discussing something.” Forums exist for discussion. And I would like to discuss whether players are happy with the norm for dungeons or not.

If you don’t want to discuss, or you see no point in discussing something, that’s cool. But don’t post on a forum telling other people that they shouldn’t have discussions.

it’s like going to painting workshop and telling everyone that they are wasting their time putting all these paints on canvases.

Depends. If you’re purpose is to just talk and gather opinions, that’s fine. But if your purpose is to ask ANet to change things, then your time could be better spent where they can see your message. That is all I’m saying.

Creslin.1758:

I actually do like the dungeons sometimes, so that’s basically why I do them. I just don’t like how dominated they are by exact routines and cheese tactics.

You’re absolutely free to dislike it. The reason they’re dominated by exact routines is because the scenarios themselves are the exact same each and every time with minimal variation. (Minimal as in, oh, the cave troll popped from the wall this time around.)

There’s 2 ways to change this.

1. ANet changes the way scenarios are done.

2. You create your own group that makes a variation on the routine. (By not stacking, or not skipping.)

Your current option: Go on the forum and hope that your words make a change to the Norm does neither. It’s probably the least effective way to spend your time in this regards.

Creslin.1758:

Okay so first, can we stop with these ridiculous attempts at psychoanalysis lol?
…
That’s really it. There is no deeper meaning here, sorry to say. Though if you would like to put me back on your virtual couch, feel free lol.

Tell me, is that how you really feel? Are they ridiculous to you because you dislike your true feelings about the issue?

Edit: all joking aside, If you could care less, then just do the dungeons and don’t sweat the stacking. Either do it and don’t care about it, or don’t do it and make sure you’ve got a group that agrees with not stacking.

Double Edit: Why are you doing dungeons for eymperials anyways? If you’re doing WvW, you get them there too.

Creslin.1758:

But you are denying the social aspect of the MMORPG. Every MMORPG (or even Multiplayer game) is a social experience that even has its own culture, to a large extent, that is why we play them. Yes, I could ignore every other player in GW2 but a pocket few that I find that share my views. But in doing this, I would essentially be shutting myself off from the game community because I dislike a certain aspect of the game.

At that point, why even play? Part of the fun of the game is playing with different people. So basically, unless you want to entirely shut yourself off to the game community, you are subject to the game’s cultural norms. One of which is stacking in dungeons and the speed-run/zerker meta.

I am not denying the social aspect. What you need to recognize is that there is a give and take to dealing with others.

What you’re saying, essentially is, “I want everyone to behave this way, and then I’ll be happy when I socialize with them.”

Creslin.1758:

To point A…the my previous response answers that. To the psycho-babble response…really?

I play RPGs for the experience/fun and the progression. I like to progress my character, I don’t like to spend 3 times as long as someone else. I don’t really think this means I have some crazy self-esteem problem lol…

All I want, is to progress my character at a good pace, and not be forced into doing droll activities to do that…why is this so difficult to understand???

It’s not difficult to understand. I just pity you because you base your self worth on others.

Consider this:
There are people out there who can solo lupi in about 5-6 minutes.
I cannot solo lupi.
After a month of practice, I can now solo lupi, but in 10 minutes.

If I base my progress on other people, I’m behind the curve… “falling behind.” If I base my progress on my own personal accomplishments, I am making progress and steadily improving.

Creslin.1758:

Nope, definitely meant stacking. I’m not a fan of the gameplay stacking entails. Standing in one spot, dealing with weird camera angles, not being able to see your character, not be able to use mobile attacks.

You’re off topic, then, and you should move your posts.

Creslin.1758:

Okay fine, let’s say “proponents of not wanting dungeons to be dominated by cheesy AI exploits.” Better?

Sure. That means this is an issue you should bring up with ANet. Sitting here in the dungeon forums probably isn’t going to help in that regards.

Creslin.1758:

So basically…we are not arguing whether or not it is “possible” to play the game however you want with like-minded people. We are arguing about what the NORM for the game should be.

So any argument of the form “well you can just make your own group” is not valid.

My problem is not that I personally have to skip through dungeons and stack nearly every fight. My problem is that, that is the NORM.

It is perfectly valid to make your own group. In fact, it is THE power you have as a player. It is given to you by ANet to deal with your issues such as this.

Ask yourself this, why does the norm have to be where you are? Why do you have to base your progress on what others’ accomplishments are?

Creslin.1758:

All I want, is for dungeons to be dynamic, fun and less predictable. The only people this will upset are those that don’t care about playing the game, and only want to get rewards as quickly as possible. And honestly, I don’t care if they are upset.

This may sound cold, but like you said, not everyone can get their way. And I will never prefer a status quo that I think is bad just because some people like it.

This is perfectly fine, I wouldn’t mind a dynamic and less predictable dungeon. (Dungeons are already fun for me, btw.)

However, I feel that this is part of the realm of the game design itself. That means that if you want change in this part, it does no good to post here where the game devs won’t see it.

Now, if you want to argue for some kind of social change in the playerbase, I think this is the place to do so.

Creslin.1758:

Ah but it makes complete sense. Here is how I see it…

The player community at large will always follow the path of least resistance to their desired reward. If you want proof of this, then just look at any MMORPG ever.

As such, the experience and gameplay of the game is defined by this path of least resistance.

I highly disagree. Your game experience is within your control. You have the power to choose whether or not you enjoy the game, and how you enjoy the game.

Creslin.1758:

If this path is boring as hell, then so is the gameplay. If this path is really fun, then so is the gameplay. And if you do not like the path of least resistance, you are kind of forced into because:

A. Other players will pressure you into it.

B. If you don’t do it, you will be behind other players in progression and feel cheated.

A. Gather like-minded individual around yourself. They become your support group and you each allow each other to enjoy the game as you all wish to.

B. This is really an argument coming out of fear. People who use this kind of argument are afraid of “falling behind”. Of being socially or economically unequal. They’re afraid they’re not “Keeping up with the Joneses.”

The problem with this is that you’re basing your self worth/self value (your progression, in this case) on someone else instead of basing it on yourself. That paranoid feeling of being cheated because you aren’t able to “keep up”? That is something within your control. Stop using others as a metric to define yourself, and instead use yourself as the metric.

Creslin.1758:

Which is why I don’t like that stacking is the path of least resistance. It’s just not fun and I don’t like the game to be defined by it.

I’m sure you meant skipping.

Creslin.1758:

Look, we proponents of fun and involving PvE want rewards too. We just to have fun getting them. We do not want to intentionally cripple ourselves.

“Proponents of fun” is a fanciful title with no weight. I have fun when I play the game. I have fun whether I’m skipping mobs or not. You’re the one not having fun when skipping mobs. I think a more accurate wording would be “Proponents of my own fun”.

Regarding crippling yourself, asking all other players to stop skipping is like saying, “Everyone go slower so it doesn’t look like I’m a cripple when I go slower.” Again, this falls back to the Keeping Up with the Joneses.

Creslin.1758:

It’s kind of like, if you are looking at your house right in front of you, 500 feet away…but instead of walking straight to it you decide to walk 2 miles around the neighborhood the long way instead.

This isn’t really something I want to do. I want the rewards in a reasonably timed manner and I also want to have fun doing it.

Telling people to form an “intentionally handicapped” group isn’t really viable. For one, it would take forever to find people to join it. And for two…we still want the rewards efficiently, we just want that process to be fun.

I’d say it’d be closer to this: You’re at the other end of the street from your house. A run where you skip is just going from one end of the street to your house. A full clear would be stopping at each of your neighbor’s houses to chat with them before finally making it home.

Some people might enjoy stopping and talking with their neighbors. Some people just want to head straight home.

Now, telling people to form their own group and put in “not skipping” is perfectly viable. You have many people who vociferously argue against skipping, so there shouldn’t be any shortage of party members. All you have to get over is your fear of “falling behind.”

runeblade.7514:

I want a optimal non-stacking run.

The best way to do that is to rid stacking as optimal.

The only way to be rid of stacking as optimal is for ANet to change the scenario. There are no player initiatives that can change stacking as optimal.

Post your suggestion where ANet will see it. If you want dungeon regulars responses, then you’ve found the right place to post.

runeblade.7514:

You say what dungeons should be about! But no matter the situation, It turns out that stacking will be optimal no matter what.

I don’t say what dungeons should be about.

I merely state that ANet has given us a scenario, and some tools. It’s up to us to choose to play out the scenario with or without the tools we’ve been given.

runeblade.7514:

Taking initiative doesn’t make make the run optimal and doesn’t make the average run a non-stacking run.

You’re absolutely right. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices. Do you want to be optimal, or do you want a non-stacking run? In the current system that has been set before us by ANet, having the tool of stacking brings you closer to optimal.

If you really wanted ANet to change this, you’d stop asking ANet for changes in the dungeon subforum. ANet won’t see it.

runeblade.7514:

You talk about challenges and fun. If you enjoy stacking, then YOU can make stacking the challenge.

I don’t think there’s a need to challenge someone because of some hypothetical change that you’ve suggested.

runeblade.7514:

I rather have the average and optimal run be about making use of the open space instead of stacking in a cramped corner. Unless there is change to stacking, the average and optiomal run is stacking.

If you want to be optimal, you must look at the scenario you’re given, and the tools you’re given, and use them pragmatically.

You are perfectly within your right to start a run and remove one of those tools because it will increase the amount of fun you have. However, you don’t have the right to tell others that they can’t use that tool in their runs.

runeblade.7514:

DigitalKirin.9714:

runeblade.7514:

DigitalKirin.9714:

runeblade.7514:

Player can then set new speedrun records under the new dungeon system then. Why don’t you consider that instead?

What new system?

It is the suggested new dungeon system which involves no stacking at all. Use your brains, use context clues or don’t discuss at all. You don’t need to choose to degrade your arguments by picking on semantics.

Interesting. Please remind me, then, why should we behave as if this suggested system was already in place?

Interesting, you don’t have anymore arguments to defend stacking.

You make it sound like you’ve really changed people’s minds and hearts with your posts.

runeblade.7514:

It is stale because it is the only optimal way. The choice to not stack means I have to give up the optimal way. I want more new optimal ways to clear dungeons rather than the same stale stacking. I want more dungeon tactics rather than stacking.

The problem is that discussing it here in the dungeon subforum isn’t going to illicit a reaction from ANet. You could come up with the best idea and the perfect system that would make 99% of all players happy… but if your target audience is ANet, you’re not in the right place.

runeblade.7514:

You don’t like it? Then consider the new suggested system as a challenge for you. A way for your speedclear group to be more coordinated while stacking. The new suggested system should be challenging enough for the average pug to wipe when stacking uncoordinately.

If you believe that your gameplay has grown stale, you should take the initiative and build your parties with comments like, “not stacking”.

runeblade.7514:

DigitalKirin.9714:

runeblade.7514:

Player can then set new speedrun records under the new dungeon system then. Why don’t you consider that instead?

What new system?

It is the suggested new dungeon system which involves no stacking at all. Use your brains, use context clues or don’t discuss at all. You don’t need to choose to degrade your arguments by picking on semantics.

Interesting. Please remind me, then, why should we behave as if this suggested system was already in place?

Creslin.1758:

My elitist drivel being that I think people should enjoy the game and not treat it like an accounting problem?

What if people have fun doing math and optimizing things “like an accounting problem”? They should be allowed to have their fun as much as you’re allowed to have yours.

I think what’s funny is that time and time again, people have offered solutions for this: “Make your own party with your own requirements.” It seems strange that this answer isn’t satisfactory to people. People aren’t willing to live and let live…

Iris Ng.9845:

I think those who teach irl understand each other

+1 Teachers unite.

Black Box.9312:

Raven.3248:

You missed our point

No I didn’t. Your point was that stacking is the most effective way to kill off a mob with melee, which is true. I’m just arguing that that makes for incredibly stale, boring gameplay and I’d rather see something that requires actual coordination and teamwork.

Regarding stale gameplay. I think there are two elements if you feel that gameplay has gotten stale.

One: New content needs to be introduced. Things need to change, whether it be new instances, or tweaks/revamps to old instances. This is on ANet’s end. Alas, it’s very unlikely that a single company could produce enough content to keep their users continually experiencing new things. (Though with crowdsourced content and some kind of effective way to vet that content, I think you could.)

This is something out of our immediate control. Therefore, wishing/talking about what ANet could or should do (ESPECIALLY in the dungeon subforum) is most likely pretty pointless. I personally don’t stress over what ANet could or should do.

Two: You find different ways to entertain yourself. Since the content doesn’t really change, you change things up yourself. Some people play PUG Roulette. Some people try to shave seconds off of their Arah Explorable runs.

These goals are each and of themselves worthy to the person that does it as long as they find that their time has been well spent. “Time wasted in enjoyment is not time wasted” as the saying would go.

If you feel that a particular method has become stale to you and is no longer enjoyable, then you need to do something about your own self. This is a personal problem, but thankfully it means that you can give yourself the answer without needed intervention from ANet.

To highlight: rT has been posting amazingly humorous videos. They’ve pushed the boundaries of what one can do in running Arah efficiently. But for our viewing pleasure, they bought cleric/pvt gear and did arah without dodging. This is how you entertain yourself. Take your fun into your own hands.

I think there’s a disconnect nowadays between personal entitlement and the social contract. Whenever a group comes together, to interact properly with minimal friction, it’s necessary to understand that you have to cooperate to a certain extent.

I feel that a person who posts a lfg seeking a speedrun, or full clear, or zerkers, or even a tank and healer has the right to do so, and the right to boot people who don’t fit the requirement, no matter how ridiculous they may seem. It is not anyone’s right to join a group like this and then say, “well, I don’t fit your needs, but you should keep me on anyways.”

Similarly, if I join a group, I wouldn’t dare to impose my will on the other party members unless we all agree. What I think is within my rights is to suggest a course of action, but if I get negative response, I’m certainly not gonna push the issue.

runeblade.7514:

Player can then set new speedrun records under the new dungeon system then. Why don’t you consider that instead?

What new system?

It doesn’t tell you what paths you are missing, only how many.

Best bet is to look at the wiki for each path and say to yourself, “Oh, I remember that fight!” or “I don’t remember fighting that boss at all!”

Problem is that GW2 isn’t multi-threaded. The Q6600 2.4ghz didn’t have turbo boost either.

Really not your fault, Lilith. The post I was quoting wasn’t from you, and her reaction is merely based on this fragile thing humans have called ego.

I don’t think you should be sorry. And I don’t say this to be mean to Sarahfull. In a sense, I pity her. I think that she is over-reacting and I think that feeling sorry is merely feeding into her over-reaction and teaches her that throwing a small fit will get her what she wants. This kind of behaviour should not be patronized.

They have optimized things here and there, but the one true answer remains: get yourself a better cpu.