Guild Wars 2

Like I said in the other thread I created, my idea for addressing this issue is to have the damage for AoEs ramp up so players are rewarded for keeping people within the AoE range.

And my idea for AoE condis, is to split the stacks between players but double the duration for stack based conditions and split the duration for duration based skills.

lol put this in the wrong forum. Could a mod help me out with moving it to the SPvP forum.

EDIT:
Thanks Modgods!

In GW1, Weakness affected the effectiveness of normal attacks by reducing damage dealt by 66% and also reducing all stats by 1. Effectively, it affected both condition damage and direct damage. Also in GW1, regen skills affected condi damage significantly, slowing it but not removing it completely. These regen skills were enchantments and Necros and Mesmers of that era had to remove them in order to keep the condi damage rolling.

So here is my proposal, make Weakness reduce condi duration by 20% and make each unique condition on a target boost the effectiveness of the Regeneration by 20%.

The reason for this proposal is that I feel there should be a more pro-active way of dealing with conditions. Just like there are several pro-active ways of dealing with direct damage (Blind, Aegis, Protection). The proposed change would also give condi specced classes, something to look out for when in battle and non-condi specced classes a tool to say “yea, I’ve got weakness, I can totally take that guy”. This change would also be an indirect way of appealing to the complaints about condi spam in the game without directly nerfing the classes that provide such high condi damage.

I know that condi specs have to deal with condi removal as well but those are few and far between depending on what spec you’re looking at. Also if your target is cleansing then they are not gaining anything from the regen boost and if they are not cleansing, they are slowing dieing from conditions anyway.
I also know that there are many non-damaging conditions like Weakness, Blind, Vuln, chill, immob, cripple and (in some cases) fear. But even if those conditions would boost the effectiveness of regen on the target it is put on, it will not reduce the effectiveness of the conditions themselves meaning; Weakness will still reduce damage dealt, Blind will still make the next attack miss, Vuln will still boost direct damage, Chill will still slow their skill recharge, immob will still keep them in one place for more precise bursting and cripple will still slow them down so that you can catch up with them. And let’s not forget the fact that, you will rarely ever see all these conditions on one target at the same time.

This proposed change would definitely make bunkers (especially Ele) stronger but like I said earlier, if your target isn’t cleansing, he is still dying… albeit slower than normal.

So that is my suggestion. Please let me hear your thoughts on the subject.

Everyone plays the guardian with a bit of survivability. I on the other hand do not care for such weakling ways.

Check this build out;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAsf7dlYgCBHHyKEfIFRWBWapAgHs6B+2n8uK4QA

And it comes with a video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-yPlw3Ul6IU#t=379s

In the vid I use Sword of Justice in place of Judge’s but don’t worry, judge’s is better for the mobility.

Depending on the build, I always try to use combo fields. My Flamethrower/Elixir Gun build is all about stacking might with the fire field from the flamethrower and then keeping myself sustained with combo fields from the healing turret.

People who don’t use combo fields are definitely losing out, trust me.

The reason why the dark fields, light fields, and lightning fields don’t seem useful is because not many classes have them. And some of the classes that do have them don’t use them in any prominent builds. I once tried to use Greatsword to remove condis in whilst standing in a lightfield but noticed, I only removed 1 condition for a 3 seconds whirl…. I find that pathetic.

VitalSuit.1980:

Why cleansing formula 409? You’re not using any elixirs besides that minor trait so that’s pretty much a waste. You’re better off taking protection injection.

If you want to take protection injection, that’s totally up to you. I find I can deal with direct damage just fine with well timed dodges and CC. The thing I can’t deal with easily is condis and like Grackle said above me, Hidden Flask and SRD proc 409.

Conditions are slow, burst is one and done. The only time condis work is when they avoid your burst REPEATEDLY. When that happens, you’re screwed.

Thanks. Yea it definitely took some time to run this build at peak efficiency (even now I still flop) but it is a really fun build and the amount of CC it has + Rocket boots had me full of giggles the first few times I played it.

Swagg.9236:

Dirame.8521:

I have different take on the Bombgineer or the BoBomber (as I like to call it because my build was focused on using Big Ol Bomb to burst down a target). You can see it here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN8jc3xtHxU

That video portrayed perhaps the slickest combo I’ve seen in GW2. Now I’m wondering about how viable a [Rifle] – [Healing Turret] – [optional] – [Bomb Kit] – [Tool Kit] would maybe work with my current set-up. Lately, I’ve taken more to the 20-20-0-10-20 trait layout that ends up taking a lot away from [Elixir Gun]. As much as I love [Acid Bomb] and [Super Elixir], I wonder if [Tool Kit] wouldn’t simply be the better option at this point. Then again, I also lose out on a stun-breaker. Ehhh, it’s rough.

A funny thing happened whilst I was working on my latest build video. I was testing different configurations for breaking stun after Overcharged Shot and my skillbar ended up looking a bit similar to your build, only that I also had the thumper turret.

The combo worked like this, I’d hit Rumble and then Overcharged Shot whilst walking towards the target (remember rumble gives 1second of Stability so you are immune to your own CC), get close enough to plunk down big ol’ bomb whilst they are busy flying in the air and then immobilize the target (the bad thing about this is the target can activate evasive skills) and jump shot on top of them and by the time I land, BoB should be blowing up.

Or you could just O.Shot, Healing mist stun break immediately, Jump Shot, place BoB and then immob, leap out with acid and walk away from the explosion like a boss.

So yea, your set-up can still work. It’s all in how you combo it.

…of Gadgets.

Hey guys, it’s that time of the week again where I post a new build and you guys give me your opinions on how good or bad they are. This week I take on the all gadget build and make quite a few synergies that would work well in, not just this build, but in other non-gadget related builds. Take a look at the vid above, check out the build below, try out the build yourself and tell me your thoughts.

The Build;
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqKe38y3F1LJxIFkmzgUo3+KSRlp8nCsF-TkAg0CnI4SxljLDXSus1MsA

Elixir R has been nerfed several times. It’s healing when downed was nerfed a few months ago, it’s cooldown was nerfed then reduced again and now it’s lost it’s stun break ability.

Nerf it again and no one will use it.

Romek.4201:

dont work

a mesmer with illus, a ranger with pet and maby spirits or mm necro would make teamfights a hell

for this the dmg reduce on aoe should not be affected from ai mobs running around, only from players it hit, than maby it works

Anet might be able to remove those things from the equation but that remains to be seen. Also, right now, AoEs cap at 5 people anyway so people could bring minions and clones right now to negate the effect but they don’t because it doesn’t win you fights. On top of the fact that, the damage reduction maxes out at a certain point whilst also ramping up the more you’re standing in it (in effect, slowing removing the damage reduction) making it a bit ineffective to bring so many meat shields.

Med.6150:

There are many ways one could go about reducing AoE damage.

We simply can not forget that currently it’s not just the power based AoE damage that’s the problem but every single class having multiple AoE effects, be it debuffs, condis or damage that turn the battlefield into a visual and sensorial clusterkitten to be frank.

I guess for condis the effect would be quite similar. Depending on how many stacks are too be applied, how long the duration is and how many targets are within the effect range, the stacks would be equal for all parties but the duration would increase depending on how many people are within the AoE effect. Let’s say, 3 stacks of bleed that last for 5 seconds are to be applied and there are 3 people, the bleed stacks would be split into 1 stack for each of them but it now lasts for 15seconds instead of 5.

Or you could do the opposite of that, increase the stacks but reduce the duration.

Duration based condis wouldn’t have much of an effect because they do not stack so their damage doesn’t ramp up. And reducing or increasing their durations depending on how many people get hit by them may make them less effective or too effective.

With all this discussion about AoE damage and how crazy it is, I thought I’d just throw in an idea for how to improve the way AoEs work. Just in case it hasn’t been suggested before.

My idea is to reduce the amount of damage dealt by AoE by 0-7% depending on how many people stand in it. So if 1 person stands in the AoE there is no damage reduction but if 5 people stand in the AoE, the damage is reduce by 35%. This will probably promote stacking on an AoE BUT this can be remedied by having the damage done by AoEs ramp up depending on how long people stand in the fire. So reduce the starting damage of the AoE and have it blow up right at the end.

I think this change would still keep the single target nuking capabilities of classes but would also reduce the group nukage that comes with stacking wells on a point or stacking a bunch of Eles using burning speed. The change would also reward players for being able to keep their targets within the AoE circle for the full duration, to get that last tick of explosive damage.

So that’s my suggestion, tell me what you guys think and offer up your own ideas.

This is one of the only patches that has really made a certain class the new FoTM. The other FoTMs were created by people developing builds or finally figuring out a new effective way to play a class.

So really, I think you should cut them some slack.

On the whole Warrior thing. Warriors do have very effective Ranged Weapons, it’s just that people don’t seem to like those, sadly…

I have different take on the Bombgineer or the BoBomber (as I like to call it because my build was focused on using Big Ol Bomb to burst down a target). You can see it here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN8jc3xtHxU

I already spent 3 pages discussing my position on this trait and the changes I think would be good. I’m not going to do that again. All I’m going to say is, I don’t think the trait should be destroyed, just toned down.
If the condi reduction duration is nerfed, the health trigger should be increased. For instance; “Gain 60% condi reduction at 50% health.”

Apart from that, please anet, if you’re going to change this trait, PLEASE don’t make it useless.

RaynStargaze.6510:

Kravick.4906:

Dirame.8521:

I think Putrid Mark should be blockable but it not being blindable is fine in my opinion.

Putrid Mark is blockable. It requires a 10 point Death Magic (arguably, one of our worst trait lines) trait to make it unblockable.

The problem is, necro staff is so useless without the accompanying bigger mark size that no necromancer worth their salt will ever try to use staff without taking that trait, pigeonholing us into a trait line we don’t want. It has been one of the most requested changes since the game went live that ANet make the “Greater Marks” size the default size of marks to diversify builds, while merging the unblockable part with the 20% cool down trait available at 20 points in Death Magic. Most of us don’t care about the unblockable part. Its the bigger mark sizes that we need, because without it, staff is useless.

Furthermore, why are we complaining about this now? It wasn’t OP before. Literally nothing has changed about this skill until this patch, which actually nerfed it to a 3 condition transfer from a full condition transfer. Why is it that when necromancers suddenly get burning (which we never asked for, we wanted survivability, not extra damage), every other single aspect of that class is now OP as hell and needs to be nerfed? Why?

wow spending 10 trait points to make a weapon viable thats really an investment which is not worth the reward.. no other class has to do this…

it was OP before as well i just didnt care because no one played necro ever

It was OP before but it isn’t OP now. As people have said, it scales with how many people you catch standing in it so it’s pretty good if you ask me. It rewards skillful play.

Overcharged Shot, Elixir U to get back up fast and burst. I felt that’s what it was for.

I think Putrid Mark should be blockable but it not being blindable is fine in my opinion.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Yea I figure might as well seeing as at least it will be seen and possibly internally tested. Who knows, but if you don’t put yourself out there, no one will ever hear you.

Wish list:

Skills———
Shield block: changes either 1 or 2.
1) Change from block to evade or invulnerability. Currently you still can get controlled and take conditions while you are blocking.

This occurs with every class, not just Warriors. Sometimes when playing Engie and using Gear Shield, I get hit by burning ticks from an engineer tossing grenades.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

2) Make movement impairment skills duration -100% while using shield block. It is mainly used for disengagement and it would help get away.

How would this work? How do you impair people whilst blocking?

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Reduce cd of healing skills by 20-25%

This would be cool.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Remove rooting aftercast on staggering blow so hammer cc chain is cleaner. It is not the skill aftercast that is an issue, it is the rooting that comes after the skill is over.

Never noticed this one. Probably because I always follow SB with Earthshaker.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Signet of Rage- Add stability 20 sec. Elite needs to be a little more defining. Currently it is just a 10th skill and not a game changer. Most warriors almost always use it on cd unless running Lyssa runes.

hmm… I don’t know about this. I think having Stability on the signet would be nice but Necros would just instantly corrupt it along with my lovely 5 stacks of might but it would still be good when fighting none necros.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Grandmaster trait somewhere- gain evasion during movement skills duration. Or movement skills cannot be interrupted. Being interrupted mid bulls charge, eviscerate, rush, earthshaker, etc. is just so detrimental to the class. Something like channel ability can’t be rupted.

Sheesh, I’ve got to say this would be awesome BUT….. the OP potential is off the Richter scale. Maybe if the duration for the evade is about a quarter of a second or half a second it might work but if it’s the full duration of the movement skill….. I think Thieves would have to be sent home.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Grandmaster discipline- burst skills cannot be blocked or blinded. Still can be dodged, evaded, or invulnerable against.

Let’s call it, Blind Rage.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Cleansing ire- needs to remove conditions on burst use, not after burst is hit. But maybe this would cause issues of bursting mid air?
——-Edit: If this was an issue, thing about it like this: I would have to use a burst, weapon swap and use a burst again, just to remove a max of 6 conditions. Both bursts and weapon swap would be on cd now so it would balance out in that regard. It is not like you could just burst air repeatedly because it does go on cd miss or not.

Don’t you think this is a bit like rewarding you for failing?

Definitely some really good ideas here.

Zenith.7301:

Torment is pretty bad, why are you even asking for that? You should be asking for more accessible roots/stuns on your warrior and for the chill on hammer trait by guardian to be made not terrible.

Have you actually seen the damage on torment? They can’t sstack it beyond 3 mere stacks, on a 40 sec cd. Tainted Shackles is there just to cover for other conditions and for the root, not because torment does any threatening damage.

Lol, more accessible roots and stuns. Warrior has so many, giving them more would be like strapping a nuke with TNT. It makes no difference.

What Warriors need is a utility gap closer. Change Kick in utilities to Savage leap and all of a sudden all those Mace builds become more deadly.

Bsgapollo.5364:

- Still no source of condi removal. ( Removing condi’s through burst skills is not what I call a viable option. Especially if you have to spend 20 points into defense which is basicly the worst kittening tree ever for warrior. )
- No kind of sustain what so ever.
- Only a handfull of builds we can go since we are forced to use berseker amulet
- Barely any usefull utilities. Since we got stability/stunbreaker skills left and right on every class it’s nearly impossible to land a bulls charge now. Not to forget the frenzy nerf that happend in the past which is basicly just saying to your enemy, “I’m taking an extra 25% dmg for the next 6 seconds so all you have to do is kite me a bit and I’m a free kill !”
- We are a melee class yet we can’t even hold our ground for more then 5 seconds when we are in the middle of the battle cause we just melt instantly.

Why is it that a melee class that is forced to engage into combo to hit any of his skills has no source of condi removal or sustain ?

Either make the warrior his skills hit targets easier or do something els. As how things are right now the class is unplayable.

Warriors aren’t forced to use Berserker amulet. There are builds with perma fury that can use Soldiers or Valkyrie’s.

I think Warrior’s should start thinking of something other than 100 blades.

Kravick.4906:

Terror hasn’t changed. Its always done the same damage it has now since forever. Necros were considered weak and not viable before. Then ANet adds burning (nothing else changed, torment is frankly useless and has next to no up time to matter) and suddenly necromancers need to be nerfed, starting with terror? kitten? Doesn’t even make any sense.

What needs to be nerfed is the amount of damaging conditions they have right now. I think replacing Burning with Torment on Dhuumfire would tone them down but still leave them with the pressure they currently have.

Let’s not forget that this is the class that can drop 10stacks of bleed on you in the blink of an eye so adding burning to them would be crazy damage. Now replace that with 3 stacks of torment and you’ve got yourself less conditions to clear but relatively, the same amount of damage.

Apparently, this new meta of two necros is countered by two or three Eles. If your team can manage to get two or three eles then you’ll do great.

Manuhell.2759:

I used it even before, but aside that, it is indeed a build defining trait. Cause if you want to use it decently you must spec heavily into vitality and usually also toughness, else your 25% hp will be far too low and you won’t be able to resist being hit with those few hit points without having enough toughness.

Fair enough.

Manuhell.2759:

“Shrug it off” is a master trait.
And “Vigorous shouts” also affects other shouts beside this one, anyway.

Yea, Shrug it Off is a master trait and it only does 1 part of what the trait that I suggested does.

Manuhell.2759:

Magnetic shield also works as projectile reflect and AoE knockback.
Big Ol’ Bomb, AoE Launch & damage (and it would be difficult to time it with an effect you aren’t actually controlling).
Throw Mine knockbacks and removes a boon.
Rocket Boots is an escape mechanism.
The turrets, well, work as turrets.
And so on.
Being blast finishers isn’t their main use, it is an added bonus.
And since you don’t even control when you’ll have that water field, you would probably waste their other effects.

One thing the Engie is good at is multi-tasking. Whilst knocking people back, you could be stacking might or blasting into a water field. Yea, you can’t control activation of the trait but when it does show up, it would be smart to take advantage of it.

Manuhell.2759:

Except you have no control regarding its activation and the enemy can easily waste it at the beginning of the fight. And then burst you down.
Compare with Vigorous Shouts, that works per every shout casted, whenever the user decides to use a shout, without any cooldown with the trait itself. And thanks to some runes they can heal a condition as well.

[/quote]

But the proposed trait is doing what Vigourous Shouts + 1 shout with Soldier runes would do. On top of giving you the ability to keep healing by blasting into the water field. And let’s not forget that the Engi is not the only person with blast finishers.

Autodefence Bomb Dispenser. Doesn’t even do you the courtesy of breaking stun, just drops a smokebomb when you get CCed and yet it’s a GM trait and it’s not a very build defining trait either. Now compare that to the trait change I suggested, which does 3 things, AoE condi cleans, AoE heal and Water Field for more AoE heals.

Even if it were a Master trait, I think it would still be a better trait than what we have now.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

Well all the things you say are problems with my suggestion are also problems with the current trait. Also, the fact that the trait I suggested removes two conditions actually gives you more of a chance to survive. Just because it has a cooldown, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Survive? You would die five seconds later, if you aren’t already dead due to the previous condition burst. And that’s without considering that you’re still taking direct damage anyway, along with the remaining conditions. With the amount of conditions applied, one already has to use some kind of condition removal to try using the trait as it is now. Healing two conditions would help nothing.

I guess that’s where our opinions differ. I think cleansing two conditions would help a lot.

Manuhell.2759:

And how many of those are build-defining, grandmaster traits? You already have to build as a bunker to even try using it successfully. And as now, it gives a constant effect. The enemy may decide its activation, but not when it ends.

How is automated response a build defining trait? It’s a powerful supplement to a build but definitely not a build defining trait. A build defining trait is something like HGH or Elixir Infused Bombs or Static Discharge. People didn’t even touch Automated Response until recently.

Manuhell.2759:

Sure, for the enemy is good indeed.
For the user, it makes it near useless, especially when the effect is poor like the one you suggest. It would be activated at the start of the fight, when the healing part is useless, and then the enemy can just burst you down.

Well look at the Warrior “Shrug it off” trait. That trait isn’t useless because even if it activates when you get crappy condis, you still get a 2k heal from it if you spec towards shouts heal. Warriors still use the trait, and it definitely gives them a lot more survivability.

Manuhell.2759:

Because we have soooo many blast finishers to waste just for a bit of healing, right?
That field is usually used by exploding the turret itself because that turret would die in any case – and if you are using the turret is because you need that healing, not because an enemy activated that effect, anyway.

It would be fine as a master trait, maybe. But certainly not as a grandmaster one.

I think you’re so busy trying to prove me wrong, you’re beginning to under sell the power of this class. Of course we have enough blast finishers, what else would you use them for?

Even if the trait is not build defining, powerful traits are still put in the Grandmaster slot and a trait that does an AoE 2.5k heal (depending on your healing stat) whilst also doing AoE condi removal whilst also dropping a water field, is what I would rank as a powerful trait.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

How is it a terrible and weak trait?

Cause it has got both a strict activation requirement (25% hp), a long cooldown and a negligible effect. Being a class with medium hp, 25% is quite low. A bunker spec can have at most around 6600 hp at that threshold and to do that we’re sacrificing any damage capability.
So we would have 5 seconds where we are already taking damage from already applied conditions other than the two that have been cured, we are taking direct damage anyway and we can’t do some decent damage cause we lack the means.
It could be fine as a master trait, maybe. But as a grandmaster? Terrible choice.

Well all the things you say are problems with my suggestion are also problems with the current trait. Also, the fact that the trait I suggested removes two conditions actually gives you more of a chance to survive. Just because it has a cooldown, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

And why would you want Cleansing burst every 10 seconds when the original is on a 15s cd?

Evasive Arcana can trigger each spell once every 10 seconds, and it can do different effects (thus, it is more versatile). Also, it is directly activated by the player.
Your version for engineers would have just one of the effects, on triple the cooldown, and it would be activated by the enemies’ action. Basically, they would just have to put on some weak conditions and then burst all the others to make it useless. No one would use such a weak grandmaster trait.

Automated response is activated by enemy action, Hidden Flask is activated by enemy action, Self-Regulating Defenses is activated by enemy action, Final Shielding is activated by enemy action. The list could go on.

And yes, the trait can be tricked into activating (in other words the trait gives the enemy the chance to play smart, this is a good thing) but if you do that, you’re also giving the engineer the opportunity to heal through all your damage because he now has a free water field.

Manuhell.2759:

And as we already said, those suggestions are awful. The first hasn’t even got a clear activation – and if you mean it activates at 25% hp, then is simply a terrible and weak trait.
The second one is a reduced version of an elementalist grandmaster trait, on triple the cooldown. Meh.

How is it a terrible and weak trait?

And why would you want Cleansing burst every 10 seconds when the original is on a 15s cd?

Felxm.8063:

Again, let me state it once more for you, since it seems like you clearly do not understand what you are doing here. The title of this thread is “Automated Response is Overpowered”, it is about YOU whine and cry and here about engineers, not I here complain about necros. Again, you call this trait fotm, I mean… seriously… Do you even acknowledge that this trait has been NERFED after this patch? It was immune to conditions when you reach 1/4 your HP.

It is you who cannot read, you don’t even understand the issue here, you simply just come here to complain about one trait that may counter necromancers when they reach 25% of their HP bar. You don’t realize the whole situation about the two professions in this conversation. Despite necros being in very strong pvp position atm, you still come here to cry a river for nerf, and yes let me state it again, it was you who started to cry here, and the whole thread of this is about some silly necromancers who cannot play their class even after huge buff, but come to the forum and cry. Dude, stop crying, and l2p your class. For the whole time I am just trying to tell you that stop complaining and play, but yet you just won’t listen. If you think someone who doesn’t receive your opinion as his/her own perspective is because of they lack of language skill, perhaps you should go back to school and take some human behavior and communication skill courses?

Despite alot people are complaining about necromancers, I don’t yet feel they are OP. But based on your theory above, lets make a similar theory, shall we?

The main issue isn’t only that necromancers can be OP, but also that it is a terrible class design, because it’s a hard counter to almost all builds&classes atm. You should always promote versatility and soft counters that don’t make almost all classes completely useless in most situations.
Feel happy now? Got the theory? Or shall I translate it into your mother tongue?

I think you’re misunderstanding us. We don’t want the trait to be “nerfed” more just modified so that it functions way better than it used to. This is my first suggestion from the original post; “Cure two conditions and become immune to all conditions for 5 seconds (60s cooldown)”. The trait still remains a good counter against condi builds but it also allows the other player to say, “okay, I’ve got to put loads of cover condis before he gets to 25% health” or “I’ll just put some crappy condis on him to get him to 25% health and then wait him out” and you on the other hand can say, “25% health, cool. Time to turn this fight around” or “Time for me to escape since no one can immobilize me”. It becomes a window of opportunity rather than a seminar that sometimes doesn’t play out the way you want it to.

Let’s also take a look at the second suggestion; “Activate Cleansing Burst when you have more than 2 unique conditions on you. (Water field) (30s cooldown)”. This one would operate regardless of whether you are at 25% or not and is on a 30 second cooldown, and also produces a water field. As an engineer, water fields should be your bread and butter. With the amount of blast finishers we have, this would be an amazing trait. Let’s not forget that cleansing burst also has a 2.5k AoE heal and AoE cleanse (of course they could probably remove the heal just because it might be too OP but let’s assume Anet doesn’t) and this would probably make the Engie just as good a team fighter as the Ele is. And it would probably make the Engie even more of a counter to the current AoE condi/damage spam as well.

So yea, I feel you might have misunderstood me and my aim. I’m not here to nerf anything, I’m here to foster discussion for something better and more balanced.

This build has been updated;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ayy79UxoAPw#t=334s

Lopez.7369:

nakoda.4213:

if your condition duration is greater than 100%, your conditions will still hit the engi with the change to this trait.

I just tested it, and this is wrong. It just says “immune” to each condition I’m trying to apply.

I keep telling him but he doesn’t want to listen.

I don’t believe Necros were or are the instigators of the use of this trait. To honest the reason why I started using this trait is because I had an extra 10 trait points to spare after Juggernaut got swapped with Napalm Specialist and I thought… hey.. why not.

All of a sudden, I feel awesome and then I fight someone who was also using the trait and I notice how it probably wasn’t my amazingly awesome skill level that kept me alive.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

I have tested it, Condi duration does not matter at all if they are able to cleanse as soon as they get to 25% health. Nothing goes through even if you max out your duration.

The trait itself doesn’t cleanse anything. It works only on conditions applied after the engineer’s hp are below that treshhold. Albeit, there is another minor trait with an 8% chance to convert a condition to a boon. But usually he will need to use some condition removal utility.

I didn’t mean that the trait itself did the cleansing, I meant the Engineer would cleanse at 25% health and then laugh his way to the bank.

Manuhell.2759:

Dirame.8521:

And you’re right, I shouldn’t be balancing the game around a 1v1 scenario but this is a game where lots of 1v1 does occur and this trait is a big trump card in that scenario.

The trait is not a “this is my last chance to turn the fight around” type of trait it’s more of a “this is the point where I survive regardless of whether this guy is better than me” type of trait.

Also, “this is the point where if any build with some power comes around, i’m screwed”.

…..Maybe it’s just the way I play that makes it feel OP…

I have tested it, Condi duration does not matter at all if they are able to cleanse as soon as they get to 25% health. Nothing goes through even if you max out your duration.

And you’re right, I shouldn’t be balancing the game around a 1v1 scenario but this is a game where lots of 1v1 does occur and this trait is a big trump card in that scenario.

The trait is not a “this is my last chance to turn the fight around” type of trait it’s more of a “this is the point where I survive regardless of whether this guy is better than me” type of trait.

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh this trait is ridiculously bad design. Good design = fun for person to play with and against. Making somebody immune to certain builds is NOT fun at all. It is super lame. What next – a new 30 point trait which reads “Under 25% health you take no damage from mesmers”. lol. Ridiculous.

Unfun mechanics to protect players from other unfun mechanics.

^ It is not fun when you are feared over and over (necros can chain it pretty well) this is prolly one of the only builds that directly counters the way the new necro builds/FOTM players are operating there fore it is the last thing that needs nerfed

No one is asking for the trait to be removed. I personally am asking for it to be toned down. Trust me, 5 seconds is enough time for an engie to turn a fight around. We don’t need Automated Response to last forever.

Seriously though, if anyone can come up with a good reason why Automated Response should remain the way it is other than “Necros are OP”, I’ll be all ears.

Manuhell.2759:

Stability ruins control builds. Let’s remove it.

Stability only lasts for a few seconds, so a smart player will either wait it out or use other forms of CC like immob, cripple, chill, blind. Or some classes could even remove stability….

On the other hand, Automated Response LASTS FOREVER as long as you remain at 25% health. There’s no waiting it out, just hoping that you brought a backstab thief to help out.

If you think about it, many of the traits or skills that grant you immunity to one thing or the other only last for a few seconds. Endure pain at 25% health, Elixir S at 25% health, Stealth at 25% health, Arcane shield at 25% health, Armour of Earth at 50% health… It’s just weird that this one lasts for more than a few seconds.

I agree that there should be a counter to the current condition meta but to be perfectly honest, I don’t think this trait should be the end all be all answer for the Engi.

Felxm.8063:

KarlaGrey.5903:

I made the thread on this trait months ago in the necro forum sections.
My main issue isn’t the trait’s effect per say (although it is impossible to finish an engi with that trait when their opponent is roughly at the same amount of hp remaining and has negigable sources of raw damage), if they could bring , but the fact it has no ICD. There isn’t a single necro trait without an ICD, even when the skill description doesn’t state one, and I’m certain the same applies to most other classess’ traits, so why making an immunity trait be exception to this rule of thumb.

It also brings me back to the question posed in my own thread: Why is the raw damage of a condition-inflicting skill being ignored?

So again basically you play a necro and have been facerolling people after patch. But suddenly you find out that you can’t do that to all classes because theres one trait of one class that counters you when they go below 1/4 of their total HP. So in order to achieve your facerolling stomping fun this has to be nerfed, right?

I do play Necro. I also play Warrior and Guardian and Thief and Mesmer and Ranger and a bit of Ele but not too much…. Have you seen my youtube channel? Because I do have one; http://www.youtube.com/user/Ceimash

But yea, I made a Necro build and I definitely wasn’t facerolling people. At most I was giving people a good fight. And it’s actually a crit build as well so no major use of conditions other than to boost damage. So yea, the condi immunity wouldn’t affect me all that much in that build. Unless I was fighting a bunker Engie then in that case the condi immunity would be painful.

Actually the trait that gives engies protection and the other trait that makes them take 20% less damage when knocked down is actually what probably affects my Necro build more so than condi immunity anyway.

Felxm.8063:

Felxm.8063:

If you want a screenshot of my most played classes I can definitely provide it. In fact, you can find it attached if you’re so inclined to find out what I play the most.

The truth is I played it myself and I could feel the trait was definitely giving me a leg up I otherwise probably wouldn’t have if I didn’t have the trait.

My whole thing is, it shouldn’t last as long as it does. And that’s pretty much it.

Now I have just checked your posts. 19 hours ago from now you posted in another thread called “TEST-Concept-To-Kill-a-Necro” I will c/p your post so that everyone can see that I was talking the truth, so here it goes:

“Playing as a necro myself and not playing the current rave that is the Dhuumfire build, I am currently playing a Deathshroud build. And I found that, I usually win when I start my CC chain before they can put enough condi pressure on me.Even if they do get condis on me, I can just let it tick in DS allowing most of the damage to waste away.Also Engineers definitely need Automated Response in order to not get rolled completely. The simple fact that Necros can flip the condis you put on them, back to you is what makes it hard for engies. Also, no stability. "

Must I say more?

I’m not sure how that proves me wrong…. ?

Well, I have certain principle. If I’m going to complain about Dhuumfire, Phantasm Mesmers, unkillable Rangers, Blind spamming Thieves etc I should also be able to look at the class that I play or the specs that I play and discern what could possibly make them too good.

I don’t believe the trait was nerfed. It feels more like the text was just changed to reflect how much it affected condis. The old trait said “Become immune to condis at 25% health” now it says “Condition duration is reduced by 100%” but I’ve tested it and even if you do have more than 100% bleed duration Engies are still immune.

Felxm.8063:

Dirame.8521:

Automated Response is a really good trait. To be honest, it’s too good.

Automated Response grants the Engineer 100% duration reduction to all conditions as long as they remain at 25% health. For a player that is purely focused on applying conditions, this is like an I win button. I cannot tell you how many times I have survived the onslaught of a Necro just because this trait kicked in at 25% health. And I feel it gives the Engi an unfair advantage for it to not have a duration and cooldown.

So this is my suggestion, change Automated Response to “Cure 2 conditions and become Immune to all conditons for 5s” on a 60s cooldown or “Activate Cleansing Burst when you have more than 2 unique conditions on you. (with water field)” on a 30s cooldown. Because right now, good engies can outlast almost any condi spec just because of this trait.

Clearly you have never played engineer or hardly played it seriously before patch, since you don’t even know it’s been nerfed just now which means it has been better before the patch(immune to condition when at/below 25%).

For me its pretty obvious that you have been playing something else before patch. After patch you switched to necro since they got buffed alot. You were facerolling your keyboard when playing necro after patch until you encountered an engineer who ran this trait. Suddenly you found out that you couldn’t faceroll anymore against him/her and eventually got owned. Then you came to the forum and started to whine because you found out that there was a trait called “Automated Response”. Suddenly you decided that instead of improving your own skill in playing necromancer, this trait cannot exist or has to be changed.

Nice story making bro, but cool story won’t make you a better player, so I’d like to say “better luck next time” .

If you want a screenshot of my most played classes I can definitely provide it. In fact, you can find it attached if you’re so inclined to find out what I play the most.

The truth is I played it myself and I could feel the trait was definitely giving me a leg up I otherwise probably wouldn’t have if I didn’t have the trait.

My whole thing is, it shouldn’t last as long as it does. And that’s pretty much it.

Rozbuska.5263:

//Edit: your sugestion is totaly sux. Alongside Cleansing Formula 409 it will be laughable useless trait if it will be changed this way. Its GM so if you can change something it must be like 33% condi duration reduction all the time.

How would it be a laughably useless trait if it removed 2 condis and then made you immune to reapplication for 5 seconds? or if it activated Cleansing burst (cleansing burst removes 2 condis, just in case you forgot) whilst also creating the water field?

I guess we both have different takes on what would be “useless”.

Even if the current situation is the way it is, we can still out-sustain and out CC the Necros so in my opinion, this trait is just a super jump over the Necros and other Engies or condi specced classes.

Mesmers might be able to remove condis based on shatters but the trait hasn’t been proven to be stepping across the balance line yet. This Engie trait however just makes condis look like a joke right now. Yea lenghty condis can get through but from what I’ve experienced, it has to be a really well timed lenghty condition.

I think even if they took my suggestion from the original post, it would still be a great GM trait. Only that then the immunity wouldn’t last forever anymore.

I pwned with the trait myself and it took me ages to pwn someone with that trait.

I know it’s a GM trait but I feel it just feels like too much of a hard counter to condi builds.

Automated Response is a really good trait. To be honest, it’s too good.

Automated Response grants the Engineer 100% duration reduction to all conditions as long as they remain at 25% health. For a player that is purely focused on applying conditions, this is like an I win button. I cannot tell you how many times I have survived the onslaught of a Necro just because this trait kicked in at 25% health. And I feel it gives the Engi an unfair advantage for it to not have a duration and cooldown.

So this is my suggestion, change Automated Response to “Cure 2 conditions and become Immune to all conditons for 5s” on a 60s cooldown or “Activate Cleansing Burst when you have more than 2 unique conditions on you. (with water field)” on a 30s cooldown. Because right now, good engies can outlast almost any condi spec just because of this trait.

Playing as a necro myself and not playing the current rave that is the Dhuumfire build, I am currently playing a Deathshroud build. And I found that, I usually win when I start my CC chain before they can put enough condi pressure on me.

Even if they do get condis on me, I can just let it tick in DS allowing most of the damage to waste away.

Also Engineers definitely need Automated Response in order to not get rolled completely. The simple fact that Necros can flip the condis you put on them, back to you is what makes it hard for engies. Also, no stability.

Chaith.8256:

• #1 – Shield 5 – going from a 3s channelled ranged block, with a 2 second (one time) melee stun, to a 2s channelled full block, with a 1 second (unlimited) melee stun.

It was never a 3s channel.

So before the last patch, the Net turret would shoot about 4 electrified nets in the span of a few seconds but even before that, it always shot two. Now though, it only shoots one. The reason? The time between shots has been lengthened to about 13 seconds and this was not reflected in the tooltip.

The tooltip for the overcharged net turret says it shoots one net every 10 seconds so if you overcharge the turret immediately you drop it, it should theoretically shoot two over the course of those 10 seconds but nope, because it now shoots a net every 13 seconds (with an overcharge duration of 10 seconds), that won’t happen.

Same with the Rocket Turret, it says the overcharge duration is 7 seconds and it shoots a rocket every 3 seconds but that second kd rocket is no where to be found….. all you get after the one rocket is a bunch of normal rockets.

So what I’m getting at is, it’s either the tooltip needs changing or the turrets need to be fixed.