Guild Wars 2

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Dirame.8521:

I mean really, if you’re going to attack fear, all CC’s that can be chained (doesn’t matter how) should fall under the same bracket.

The difference being that you need to time other CC. Use it to soon and its wasted and to late you can be interrupted Chaining fear is as easy as mashing the buttons as fast as you can, nothing skill worthy of that.

Name another CC that stacks in duration when used?

So therefore, to solve the problem, you just make Fears the same as other CCs. Just make fear NOT stack in duration. No need for immunity.

Picking on fear because Necros are the FOTM is just silly. They could do this before, it’s just that now that more people are doing it, it’s become too much of a problem for you to handle.

Who wastes cooldowns on an NPC? Just spam auto on it and it dies. Or pay attention and assign someone to CC the Ranger when you get someone down.

Romek.4201:

you cant chain other CC´s like fear

……You’re kidding right?

You can’t chain it LIKE fear but you can still chain it. Why do you think they call Warrior Stunlock builds “stunlock”?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Dirame.8521:

If they do this Dzin, they’d have to do the same for every other CC in the game. It won’t be fair to just single out fear as the only CC to be affected.

As far as i am aware no other CC can be chained and have its duration increased like Fear can. The other ones you have to time well to get it right. With fear you can burst them all from the start and the duration is increased EVERY time.

You are also forgetting the fact that some/most/all Necro go with Terror as well which damages while they are feared and they can do damage while the player is feared.

I think this would be a great way to fix it. Make it so that the Player is immune for say 2seconds after being feared and make it so that fear can NOT be stacked this would stop people chaining fears into people.

Just make it not stack in duration. If the problem is that duration keeps increasing as you get feared then just make it so that the previous fear gets cancelled out by the new fear.

I mean really, if you’re going to attack fear, all CC’s that can be chained (doesn’t matter how) should fall under the same bracket.

If they do this Dzin, they’d have to do the same for every other CC in the game. It won’t be fair to just single out fear as the only CC to be affected.

Necros could fear chain before this and getting hit by that was still a death sentence so really this is just another knock on their condi build that probably shouldn’t occur since they’ve had (or will have) everything else nerfed on them.

Jomo kenyatta.7351:

your kidding!! what about engi?? perma swiftness and vigor, burning traite in adept immune to condis at 25% hp res yourself curing all conditions spirit rangers using res and ai to win games broken internal cd for spirits. its time to nerf everything thats over powered not just the classes the developers dont like

The internal CDs aren’t broken. Tested it.

Jumper.9482:

Dirame.8521:

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

This is the only example of Whack-a-mole they’ve done so I wouldn’t give them too much crap for it.

Giving Necro a 60% uptime on Burning in the first place as well as a new DS#5+Terror in the same patch.

50% Nerf on Dancing Dagger, 33% Nerf on CnD, and 15% nerf on Cluster Bomb all in one patch.

Shattered Strength 1->3xMight/Shatter (24Stack Mesmers dealing 18k burst). Hotfixed back to 1.

Frenzy Nerfed by 50% (GG Warriors)

Mug no longer crits and Trick Shot no longer hits moving targets.

Whack-a-mole suggests that they buffed something then went on to nerf it back down again.

Dancing Dagger, I don’t remember that ever being buffed. Same with CnD, same with Cluster Bomb.

Shattered strength from what I remember, was a bug(?) but I can’t be sure about that

Frenzy, was never buffed it was only nerfed

Mug, was never buffed it was only nerfed. Same with Trick shot.

This Dhuumfire buff to nerf is the only clear example of whack-a-mole that I know of.

Enmity.3428:

“Thieves are not effective in PvP.” © TheMightyAltroll

He’s probably talking about TPvP. This thief will probably be too effective holding back point though.

Necros have always been able to kill bunkers, the buff probably boosted the speed at which they could do it but they could always do it and they will still be able to do it even after the full nerf.

Xiao Haishou.3691:

Anyways… For the Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk changes, I feel like they were unnecessary as well.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

However, there is an inherent flaw in Death Shroud. By being a second life bar, it is either too little for multiple enemies, or it is too much for one. There simply cannot be a middle ground on this. (Thanks to BloodRedArachnid for pointing this out so succinctly recently). The end result is that we have a very heavy AoE class that is ironically far better suited to facing one opponent over many. This just doesn’t fit.

Now they have increased the amount of life force gain from Spectral skills, but they have implemented an inherent 1-sec cooldown. This makes us even more tankier for 1v1 situations and squishier for 1vX situations. However, the issue many people have with Death Shroud is that it provides too much HP for 1v1 and not enough survivabilty to compensate for no blocking/evades/stealth/teleport for 1vX.

If you want to escape, you can grab Spectral Wall and Spectral Walk. They both help you in legging it. I don’t believe DS is meant to be an escape tool of any sort.

EDIT: Scratch that, I read the whole thread and my comment sounded out of place. In any case, here’s a more appropriate comment;

I think what you’re saying can kittenoed by every class in the game, not just Necromancers. For instance; where are Engie turret fixes? Where are all the tool-tip fixes? Why are all my passives shutdown when I enter a new map? etc etc.

You’re not the only one waiting for fixes for his/her class.

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

This is the only example of Whack-a-mole they’ve done so I wouldn’t give them too much crap for it.

SlyFoxSays.5342:

Allowing the opposite team to steal a monster-kill based off some small amount of damage dealt near the point of death is crap. Its a cheap exploit and should be corrected.

Why do you want to play a boring game?

Those clutch Kill steals are so fun to watch as a spectator and so risky when you’re the player doing it that, it would be a disservice to the game if it were removed.

Allie Murdock.8152:

cymerdown.4103, Thank you so much for the kind words! I’ve been running around like a madwoman the past few days trying to make this happen. Really appreciate the encouragement.

I’d like to join the “Thank you Allie!!” crew. Danke Allie, E she Allie, Merci Allie, pakka per Allie, Gracias Allie. It is much appreciated even if we don’t mention it as much as we complain.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Dirame.8521:

2. Necro Damage is too much;
I can relate this to a time in GW1 when a Warrior with a Hammer could just activate Dwarven Battle Stance pre-nerf on someone and just walk away from the keyboard and he would interrupt every single skill the person tried to cast. And this is quite similar to what a Necro can do only with conditions replacing the interrupts.

They actually further buffed Dwarven Battle Stance* skill by lowering the cost, adding 40 armor for the duration of the stance, and not having it break on skill use.=p

*From GW Wiki:
Decreased Energy cost to 5; changed functionality to: “Elite Stance. For 5…10…11 seconds, if you are wielding a hammer, you attack 33% faster, you gain +40 armor, and your attack skills interrupt foes when they hit.”
(It’s actually good now, especially if you time it right, but yea.)

Yet you still don’t really see it in any kind of pvp, really. What does that tell you? (;

I don’t consider it warranted, however, to compare such a strong skill to auto condition spam though, unless the 2nd condition inflicted would be fear instead of poison (often I’d see my conditions removed while auto stacking bleeds, so by the time poison lands, bleeding is already gone).

I wasn’t comparing the power, more the skillessness that they both entail.

Dirame.8521:

Dirame.8521:

3. Necro Survivability is bad;
One final example before I go, I was in a match the other day and there was this particular Necro, who was probably specced as the FOTM condi build but he was incredibly hard to pin down, why? He kept moving and running around the map. He was also using Spectral Walk so he had the ability to make people go one direction whilst he went the other. He was incredibly hard to kill just based on the fact that he was quite mobile not even because of Deathshroud. So yea, these people who complain about survivability, I do not quite believe them.

Yea, I fought a similarly specced necro (swalk, sgrasp and signet of spite).
Needless to say, if I’d let them land their spectral grasp and successfully pull off the fear chains, I was pretty much done for (end result was roughly 50/50 with him having a few more wins in total).
But the other necro not only sacced their boon removal (thus being only half as effective against stability classes), they also had virtually no self cond removal outside CC, which left them extremely vulnerable to my own conditions, in the event their spike failed to finish off the target. I also found Signet of Spite to be really strong if timed properly (i.e. after a heal/staff condi transfer), so I suppose that dhuumfire isn’t the sole offender when it comes to condi overload.

Signet of Spite doesn’t stack that many damaging conditions to be honest (just 2 stacks of bleed which is not worth much if you take it one it’s own), it’s just a really good way to cover all your other conditions and a good skill for building DS when you combine it with Feast of Corruption.

But we just got an improved Deathshroud….. so…. what are you complaining about?

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

I’m going to take a shot at this list and try to describe why people say each one and if they are correct in saying these things based on my own experience.

1. Necro DS is too much;

Most of what I’ve been seeing and reading is that this complaint comes way more from people who have engaged Necros or have played as Necros in a 1v1 scenario. Fact is, if the fight went on long enough that the Necro built enough DS, then of course, his DS would be something you’d have to deal with. And that, I believe, is the problem; people haven’t learnt to deal with a Necro who has full Deathshroud.

2. Necro Damage is too much;

This one I agree with. The fact that a Necro can just spam auto-attack and beat you to death because he is stacking 3 conditions with just one button is absolutely hilarious. I can relate this to a time in GW1 when a Warrior with a Hammer could just activate Dwarven Battle Stance pre-nerf on someone and just walk away from the keyboard and he would interrupt every single skill the person tried to cast. And this is quite similar to what a Necro can do only with conditions replacing the interrupts.

3. Necro Survivability is bad;

Only certain speccs. And to be honest, that’s how it should be. If a 30/30/10 or 30/20/20 Necro believes that he should have some survivability outside of Deathshroud, then that person should probably change amulets.
I actually played a Deathshroud Necro spec with Rampager’s recently (and let’s remember that Rampager’s doesn’t provide any defence at all) and I was taking on two people and surviving for quite some time mostly due to my ability to regain DS really quickly. In fact, I was beating quite a few other Necros because I had more access to DS than they did.

So if they complain about surivability, it’s either the specc they play is squishy or they themselves do not know how to play a Necro.
One final example before I go, I was in a match the other day and there was this particular Necro, who was probably specced as the FOTM condi build but he was incredibly hard to pin down, why? He kept moving and running around the map. He was also using Spectral Walk so he had the ability to make people go one direction whilst he went the other. He was incredibly hard to kill just based on the fact that he was quite mobile not even because of Deathshroud. So yea, these people who complain about survivability, I do not quite believe them.

Defektive.7283:

Oblivion.8307:

Allie Murdock.8152:

We’re kind of on a time crunch, so yeah

If we’re going to do any hotfixes before the Qualifiers this weekend, they need to be asap.

Here’s a couple of clips from my warrior today a friend asked me to post.

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2634515

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2633818

Your running a berzerkers amulet with banners and hammer against blind spam and condi spam.

Also, all your utilities were on cooldown. Literally set yourself up for failure.

Good analysis.

With regards to the topic at hand;

I do believe that Necros are still forces to be reckoned with even without giving them burning. Like I’ve said in many other “Nerf Necro” related threads, give them more ways to stack torment, remove burning and you get relatively the same Necro only with more build up to his damage and with a lot less condis for everyone to cleanse.

With that said, I can guarantee that people are still going to complain because if the Necro doesn’t have burning, someone else in the team will give it to him (whether it be from the Guardian’s Virtue of Courage or the Ranger’s Sun Spirit), so therefore, the Necros will forever be considered OP.
I do think though, that when a nerf occurs, people tend to drift away from the nerfed speccs so we might get a lot less Necros if there was a change to Dhuumfire but that remains to be seen.
——————————————————————

Now I’m going to also suggest something I’ve been suggesting for quite sometime now and that’s the fact that if Anet gets to the point where they feel that Necros need to be taken down a peg, they do not need to attack them directly. They could just make Weakness affect condi damage and buff the Regen boon so that it improves in effectiveness depending on how many conditions are on a target.

Now the changes to Regen will probably cause a lot more controversy than some people might realize. The thing is, if Regen was to get boosted by every single condition on a target, people who love to stack crappy conditions (blind, weaknes, vuln etc) to hide their not-so-crappy conditions, will end up nerfing their damage more than helping it due to the fact that Regen is boosted by every single condition. And that’s a good thing because I believe people will then try to stack as few crappy conditions as possible when a target has Regen, only trying to keep the damaging conditions so that they don’t lose dps by stacking more inane conditions. This will then, I believe, have the side-effect of classes having less conditions to cleanse whilst Regen is up, thus indirectly boosting condition removal.

In that scenario, speccs that can apply infinite regen would probably be frowned upon (Rangers and Banner Warriors mostly but pretty much every class can do it) but with a few counterplay options like Poison, and Boon stripping/boon conversion, things should be stable in group-fight scenarios. If they aren’t then the nerfhammer could always be dropped.

I don’t care what people say, just because one person couldn’t burst another person out of deathshroud, that doesn’t make DS in any way OP.

If it was that people could burst you straight out of FULL DS, every necro would complain about it.

And please think about it for a sec, people were asking for Necro suriviability and now we got it, all of a sudden it’s OP? I call kitten litter.

Red Raven.7824:

I agree with this post.

If more players would stay away from the meta and more custom builds were used, pvp would be much more fun.

Teams want builds that will give them the most wins. It’s that simple. If some of these teams cared enough about playing the class they like more than they do winning, it would be a different story entirely.
I’m part of this group too so I’m not just throwing out judgements without looking inward.

I’m just going to say; I predicted this day.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Dirame.8521:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Sadly mesmer has no option to compete due to these “locked” utilities he has to bring. There is no space for him to take condition remove to actually sustain all this condition dmg. Also the meta shifted towards engi/ranger/necro, where mesmer is compared to them in a really bad spot 1v1 wise. This was the reason why mesmer stopped being the dedicated close-point defender.

However, many mesmer from “top-teams” rerolled to another class, which supports my arguments even more.

If the Mesmer is no longer the dedicated close point defender, then why don’t we just have them elsewhere and run different things like, I dunno, Null field and portal?

What you asked me was allrdy happening. Before necro-patch he was for quite a long time the dedicated teamfighter. With Moa, void-pull and AoE-shatters he was a big influence. However after the patch necro is just more effective. Why you need IoL, when you just can melt the other team in AoE-conditions before smn of your own team dies? Why you need portal, when you can win any teamfight due to heavy AoE and fear?

Everything the mesmer can do, the necro can do better now. And this without even be good skill-wise at the class itself.

I definitely think that a Mesmer and Necro compliment each other quite nicely. Shatters remove boons really helps those fears stick.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Sadly mesmer has no option to compete due to these “locked” utilities he has to bring. There is no space for him to take condition remove to actually sustain all this condition dmg. Also the meta shifted towards engi/ranger/necro, where mesmer is compared to them in a really bad spot 1v1 wise. This was the reason why mesmer stopped being the dedicated close-point defender.

However, many mesmer from “top-teams” rerolled to another class, which supports my arguments even more.

If the Mesmer is no longer the dedicated close point defender, then why don’t we just have them elsewhere and run different things like, I dunno, Null field and portal?

The way you phrase your post sounds a bit like the Necromancer is the kid in the room that has to have all the other kid’s toys. And to be honest, I don’t believe they do.

GW2 seems to have been built in such a way that if you have a hole in your build, there are several ways to fill it. Those ways being; runes, sigils, traits and most importantly (which I’m beginning to think most people are forgetting) your other teammates.

The very thing that made the Ele OP was that they could generate so many boons on their own without the need of their teammates and the very thing that makes the Necro condition build OP right now is the fact that they can generate all these conditions without the help of their teammates. In an ideal world, if the Necromancer couldn’t produce burning but could stack bleeds and torment, I would expect teams to run Sun Spirit Rangers in the team fight, enabling their Necromancer (as well as the rest of the team) to stack burning but lo and behold, that is not the world we live in.

What I’m getting at is, we should not expect any single class to be able to do everything perfectly. If the Necromancer isn’t good at Defensive mitigation, they don’t necessarily have to be. I do agree that Vampirism needs a buff though, because right now, you could try to make a build around it but it just doesn’t work out as well as the promise of Vampirism should. The Well/life steal bunker builds work but only when multiple people stand in them and apart from that situational scenario, Life steal builds just don’t work too well. I believe Vampirism should be an extra tick of damage at the end of every attack and I agree that it should scale a lot more with healing power.

About Dodge/Vigor; I don’t feel it should be changed at all. Dodge is the counter to all offensive counters. If I you were to put condis on me and I were to flip your condis back to you, you could just dodge and there’s nothing I can do about it (except maybe bait your dodge a lot earlier). If you remove Dodge, then you run the risk of making unblockable attacks run rampant.
I also noticed that when converting conditions to boons, bleeding becomes vigor. I can get a very long tick of vigor if I fight a condition class.

Self Ressurection; I call it skillful play and no, we don’t need to have it. It would be a nice addition but we don’t need it.

Strong Healing; The funny thing about this is we have something quite similar to Rangers. It’s called Well of Blood. 6k healing at the start and 5k healing over 10seconds. Throw in Wells life steal and near infinite regen and you could heal up to 10k health in just 10 seconds. Let’s also not forget that necros can stack over 22 seconds of Weakness, as well as over 15 seconds of protection (at 50% health and with wells) which helps with mitigation allowing those heals to stick.

So, yea, I don’t feel Necros need to be homogenized even more. We need less homogenization, more differentiation.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Dirame.8521:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

JonathanSharp.7094:

ensoriki.5789:

Take the medium of the two.
Necro’s are eating up quite a bit of damage, and putting out a significant amount that well still feels somewhat absurd for how long they’re maintaining themself with shroud.

Without that lifeshroud however it’s not really a biggie and they go down fairly quickly. So sure at the beginning of the fight they’ll go down easily after that it’s a pain.

Nods. I’m simply illustrating the fact that we often hear things from the players that are diametrically opposed. And thus, if it’s hard to do “what the players want”. This is a good example of that.

The problem with this thinking is that Deathshroud is a tool for damage, NOT A TOOL FOR MITIGATION

If you stand inside Deathshroud to eat a burst, you now have no class mechanic, no tools, and have to rebuild it all up again. No good player will ever stand inside Deathshroud for 15 seconds to eat damage unless they are built for it, because then they are wasting their best tool.

Very questionable thinking. Every good play SHOULD go into deathshroud to eat damage and stall. Whilst in Deathshroud, they should use their “best tool” till they feel the pressure is off and their heal is up.

If you’re stunlocked, or focused, that will do you no good whatsoever. Your best tool is Doom, that’s your strongest damage removal right there, a way to interrupt burst done to you, it’s also a tool for applying extra damage, interrupting heals, etc.

The best tool we have, is Deathshroud 3. It’s also very situational unfortunately, and a Scepter/Dagger Staff Necro has very little access to Life Force compared to other builds. Standing in Deathshroud to eat a burst when being focused, simply removed any of your effective tools/damage the next time you are fighting, smart players will simply get you to waste your Deathshroud, reset, then come back and kill you.

When using Deathshroud, you’re still stalling your death. The amount of times I’ve used DS to take a ton of damage just to stall till my heal was up is too many to count. Yes people will try to make you waste Deathshroud, but every second spent in DS is you staying alive longer.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

JonathanSharp.7094:

ensoriki.5789:

Take the medium of the two.
Necro’s are eating up quite a bit of damage, and putting out a significant amount that well still feels somewhat absurd for how long they’re maintaining themself with shroud.

Without that lifeshroud however it’s not really a biggie and they go down fairly quickly. So sure at the beginning of the fight they’ll go down easily after that it’s a pain.

Nods. I’m simply illustrating the fact that we often hear things from the players that are diametrically opposed. And thus, if it’s hard to do “what the players want”. This is a good example of that.

The problem with this thinking is that Deathshroud is a tool for damage, NOT A TOOL FOR MITIGATION

If you stand inside Deathshroud to eat a burst, you now have no class mechanic, no tools, and have to rebuild it all up again. No good player will ever stand inside Deathshroud for 15 seconds to eat damage unless they are built for it, because then they are wasting their best tool.

Very questionable thinking. Every good play SHOULD go into deathshroud to eat damage and stall. Whilst in Deathshroud, they should use their “best tool” till they feel the pressure is off and their heal is up.

Even.4687:

When I first read about Adrenal Implant I was really excited. 50% faster endurance regeneration! That, in combination with some endurance regen food and some vigor and you’re a dodging machine.

But there’s a 100% endurance regen cap that vigor takes you to right away. So for two adept traits (speedy kits and invigorating speed) you get perma vigor making this grandmaster trait useless.

Does anyone use it? Did Anet have a different vision for vigor for the endurance regen cap when they created this? It seems like a pretty pointless grandmaster trait to me.

This is how I see it. Adrenal Implant is the trait you take when you want to take protection Injection instead of invigorating speed. Combine Protection Injection with Stabilized Armor and you have good dodging, and mitigation when you get CC’ed.

Amaterasu.6280:

No one accumulates meter in the beginning of the game…that’s like saying a warrior should start with full 3 bars adrenaline…

Healing Surge….. Signet of Fury……

Stun-lock Warrior is OP. There, we have one.

Lukin.4061:

I have to admit I rarely create topics, but the patch notes made me say whats on my mind. To note, I have been playing necromancer as my main class since BW1 and it was always the only class I used in tournaments and my main spec was and still is a fear necro with stability (0/20/20/0/30).

So lets face it before the previous patch that added burning and torment necromancers were not the first pick in the comp pvp setup, used mostly as rez signet carriers with wells. Was the burning OP? Well adding burning to necromancer in my opinion was unnecessary, because they already gave us torment to cover our main dmg from condition bleed. Did it make the necromancer OP, I would still say no, necro stacking was what made it over the top imho.

Necromancer, as anet said, is an attrition class and it was made to outlast opponent. Yet the reality is different – necromancer lacks stability, regeneration and all the other boons that make a class truly an attrition one. Devs told us that DS is there to compensate these lacks, because it is like a third weapon set, since previous to the nerf you could swap weapons in it, and it has its own HP bar, so you can outlast someone a bit longer. So overall necromancers did not need a buff in damage it needed it in mobility, boon generating, etc.

After the mistake of adding unnecessary fire to necromancer devs instead of doing something with it started changing everything else, so now you would have to run this spec. For example:
- They added a CD to LF generation that was not that easy without the nerf especially at the beginning of the match
- Removed DS protecting our hp from big hits, so now class mechanic is just laughable since it no longer soaks up dmg and no longer allows for weapon swap which was its main purpose.
- Pushed the greater marks further into a tree, thus making builds even more generic.

It looks like devs are thinking that now everyone is running one spec so nerfing it would make necromancer more “balanced”. Well its not true, because not everyone likes to run a generic build that is fotm, but maybe its their idea to force players in pvp to use only 1 build per class, thus making it as easy to balance as possible…

P.S. I have to mention this: I feel sorry for a player named Nemesis, too bad your suggestions fell on deaf ears and blind eyes of anet devs.

TL; DR; IMO anet balancing team:

It just sounds like you’re angry. Nothing you’ve said has actually pointed out how to improve or change things.

Leithiani.7460:

Dirame.8521:

Why do people keep making posts about balance in Hot-join? It’s just meant for kitten -ing around, it’s not meant to be serious.

If you want to be serious then make a serious post please. Hot-Join is part of the game. The tournament systems works fine as is (even though they are working on it more). My auto-balance FIX and conditions FIX would help balance tournaments too however.

Please add constructive comments or add your own TOP 3 Ways to Balance sPvP please:

My apologies, I worded it wrong. I feel Hot-join does not need balancing since it is built to be a place to just have fun with little consequence.

google.3709:

sorrow.2364:

google.3709:

Perma evade steath spamming BM Rangers new meta!!! <3

I think you meant thief.

no lol rangers are getting 3s stealth on a 12s cd(9 if trained)

and yah lol people are gonna use LB for sure!!

• BM, stealth while evades on s/d recharge and pet attacks.
• Spirit Ranger, Stealth and good lucky targeting the ranger in the middle of ip to 4 spirits and a pet lmao

This is gonna be all troll <3

Rangers are meant to be backpoint holders in most team comps and Stealthing is pretty much giving the cap away for free. Therefore no one in their right mind would actually play LB as a Backpoint holder.

Call me when someone does something crazy with Stealth as a Longbow Ranger.

Why do people keep making posts about balance in Hot-join? It’s just meant for kitten -ing around, it’s not meant to be serious.

Rome.3192:

Doesn’t really address the necromancer OP issue. 17% terror nerf isn’t all that much and I suppose you now need to run 30/20/20 instead of 30/30/10 (a lot were already running 30/20/20).

They said they aren’t going to change the meta too drastically because of the upcoming tourney so, maybe after the tourney.

Where are these Notes?

BUG;
- All passives seize functioning upon entering a Custom Arena. (Passives I had on my bar include; All virtues, Signet of Resolve and Purity(trait))

The workaround for this is to either get killed or activate all the skills to kick-start their passives.

Exedore.6320:

saVdoom.2067:

Off the topic: Does no one find it funny that everyone has already settled that every single competitive team must have a guardian? …

It’s worth looking at why. Are guardians too good at bunker, or do other professions just need improved. What do guardians have, such as plentiful stability, that other bunkers don’t?

If it was about Stability people would just put Warriors in mid. The fact is the Guardian has quite a few supportive shouts and skills that affect the flow of a team fight. AoE protection, AoE Stability, Wards, burning every 30 seconds, Might and that tiny bit of healing.
In order to get the same effect that a Guardian would in a team fight, you’d probably need two classes.

Kawloon Fuathach.3807:

Not really speculation, but rather just an idea I had for a kit. Thoughts?

Saboteur’s Kit – Visual aspects of this kit would be a small, wrist mounted crossbow on the users arm, and a gas mask which would be similar in looks to the aquatic headpieces you wear underwater; in addition to some sort of belt/back item to help distinguish it as a kit.

Skill 1 : [Fire Wristbolt] : Fires out a volatile elixir bolt that deals minor damage on impact and marks the target with Explosive Charge. The charge detonates after 2 seconds, dealing damage to the target, and reduced damage to surrounding targets within a small radius. Explosive Charge can stack up to 3 times, but detonates separately. All Explosive Charge stacks are detonated if the target is effected by damage caused by Detonate Charge. [1/4s Cast] [20% Projectile Finisher]

Skill 2 : [Satchel Charge / Detonate Charge] : Place a satchel charge at target location that lingers for 3 minutes. After placing, the skill becomes Detonate Charge, allowing you to remotely explode the charge, dealing damage to enemies within the blast radius and crippling them for 2 seconds, in addition to detonating any Explosive Charge stacks on the target(s) instantly. Damage of the detonated charge is increased dependent on your distance away from the charge, catering heavily reduced damage if you’re within the blast radius. Damage values change at 200, 600, 900, and 1200+. Note : The satchel charge is not detonated by enemy contact. [3/4s Cast / 1/4s Cast] [15s Cooldown] [Blast Finisher]

Skill 3 : [Choking Gas] : Throw an explosive flask at target location, dealing a small amount of damage and creating a cloud of blinding noxious gas that lingers for 3 seconds. Targets in the effected area are blinded for 1 second and poisoned for 2 seconds per pulse. [20s Cooldown] [Combo Field : Smoke]

Skill 4 : [Evasive Maneuver] : Leap backwards, evading attacks for 3/4s and granting yourself 5 seconds of Vigor. [25s Cooldown]

Skill 5 : [S.H.R.O.U.D.] : Activate your S.H.R.O.U.D gadget, granting swiftness and stealth to you and surrounding allies for 3 seconds. [45s Cooldown] Note : S.H.R.O.U.D. stands for Shadow Harnessing Reconnaissance Operation User Device.

Toolbelt Skill : [Bolt Volley] : Rapidly fire a flurry of bolts from your wristbow, dealing damage and marking targets hit with Explosive Charge. [Number of Projectiles: 6] [1 1/2s Cast] [45s Cooldown]

I like this.

saVdoom.2067:

Dirame.8521:

I think you’re looking at if from the point that the Warrior is the only one going for the Necro. The Warrior definitely won’t be. The Thief will be on him, the ele would be on him our very own Necro/Engie would be on his tail as well. Even if the Warrior was focused, the Warrior spec I’ve been playing and the Warriors I’ve been playing with are quite beefy and bringing them down takes more than just focus fire. In fact, you could actually send one of these guys to hold a point for a while and they would survive against 3 for more than just a few seconds.

Toss in me and my Burst healing Engy and these guys could survive for quite some time in a team fight.

Yes ofcourse everybody would be on the necro but keep in mind the other team will be bursting someone down as well. And the funny part the best class to keep pressure is the second most OP right now, which is the S/D thief… The whole issue though, is that necros can do stuff from range while the warrior cannot. If the necro has a decent team peeling for him and all, its very safe to say that his team will have the upperhand easily, especially if he kites toward the stairs to his home point (talking about legacy here) and his team nukes whoever tries to go up while the guardian keeps the point contested.

Warrior animation are quite easy to telegraph and you can actually have your dodges set for that. Meanwhile when you look at a necro you don’t even see what he is trowing at you, but within 2 seconds you got all the conditions in the kittening game..

We could argue about this all day but it’s just a case of who is able to play better with their team.

Also Necro animations are actually quite easy to see. Every time they point a finger, they are either casting Enfeebling blood or, Grasping dead.

The point capture system is the great equalizer. If you want to beat a Warrior, get off the point and poke him till he pops berserker stance. After that wears of, you can rip into him.

Also Wurm and Spectral Walk.

saVdoom.2067:

Dirame.8521:

swinsk.6410:

Why don’t we all just quit our characters and start playing necros and engis?

Seems like what ANet wants us to do…

I think what Anet wants you to do is find a counter to the meta but apparently we are too busy whining to do that. You want someone in some high ranking team to do the same thing Super Squad did when they ran a Warrior with Battle Standard, or when Teldo went back to playing Flamethrower/Bomb kit. You’re not willing to counter the meta, only willing to complain about it.

Its not that simple Dirame. There is no counter to the amount of AoE condis being spread all over… by the time the warrior tries to get in range of the necro that can simple be nuking everything around him from range, he’ll be down focused by the rest of the team. There are not enough cleanses to sustain that fight till you can make a play and then pressure the necro. Just like Ultima explained there are no real counters to S/D thiefs because they can have a huge amount of survivability throughout evades, best mobility in the game, and on top of that high damage… If it is played properly he’ll pinpoint one important player in the team fight and there is nothing you can do because you if try to focus him he’ll just evade… if you try to CC him to right afterwards burst him you can’t either because he’ll teleport away.

On top of all that there is another thread which shows how kittened non active skills are completely kittening up the game, prime example is the spirit ranger just dancing around not needing to do anything since 70% of his play is passive.

Off the topic: Does no one find it funny that everyone has already settled that every single competitive team must have a guardian? …

I think you’re looking at if from the point that the Warrior is the only one going for the Necro. The Warrior definitely won’t be. The Thief will be on him, the ele would be on him our very own Necro/Engie would be on his tail as well. Even if the Warrior was focused, the Warrior spec I’ve been playing and the Warriors I’ve been playing with are quite beefy and bringing them down takes more than just focus fire. In fact, you could actually send one of these guys to hold a point for a while and they would survive against 3 for more than just a few seconds.

Toss in me and my Burst healing Engy and these guys could survive for quite some time in a team fight.

DJSkittles.7196:

Is the only counter to take out all the spirits first?

Im not here to cry, but this build does seem extremely unbalanced considering the last 4 tpvp teams ive faced have all been premades and they have all had a spirit ranger build, sometimes multiple.

Im just looking for a solution, because that builds just the most face roll ive ever faced, I have trouble with some builds, which I accept is generally because Im just not good enough, need to l2p, or am just countered well by it, but ive played a fair amount of tpvp and this just seems ridiculous.

Any input would be very helpful,

Thank You.

I don’t bother with the other Spirits apart from the Giant bluish Rez spirit. You must remember though, the spirit that gives them their damage is the orange one. Destroy that and you reduce their damage by a lot.

Apart from that, you could just focus the Ranger and time your damage for when he isn’t dodging and you’ll do better against them.

Daecollo.9578:

I think a lot of necromancers forget we have a focus that melts buffs off warriors.

Warriors I fight with usually have 0 boons. Lol.

The spec I use has 3 ways to gain stability and 1 immunity to condis. How do you fight that?

The best thing you can do is chill them when they pop stab and get as much distance as you can muster.

Nukk.3492:

Yes and No. You’re not wrong but its not right.

They did exactly the same in GW1, forcing the meta by overbuffing certain things (such as hexes) to move a stale meta into hex/condi etc. This seems fine in principal as a shifting meta makes competitive play more varied, however, what they always seemed to do and have done now is forget that some players don’t want to be carried by their comp or forced into playing a particular counter comp.

There are some players out there who don’t want to jump on the best chance of success bandwagon dictated by the meta and instead would prefer to beat such comps on their own merits by running a balanced comp and outplaying such teams. The problem is that they always forget to bolster the skills/traits etc. needed for balanced comps to be successful at doing this without relying on a massive skill gap. If you get a really good hard meta comp team vs an equally skilled balanced team when the game is in a forced meta change such as this then the balanced team can’t work hard enough to get the advantage back – and that’s always a problem.

I’m sure the OP knows that he could run a certain counter comp (2 stunlock warriors as per your suggestion) but where is the satisfaction in playing rock vs scissors? Some people want to win on their own merits and when they can’t then any incentive for playing just goes out of the window. That’s not right.

Well, then you’ll find my suggestion to buff things that will be mutually beneficial to all parties right up that alley.

I’m not the kind of person to say people shouldn’t play what they love or know how to play or enjoy playing. I just don’t feel it’s right for them to complain about the status quo if they are not willing to adapt.

Also, like I said earlier, the counter to the current meta is another hilariously bordering on OP extreme that needs a tad toning down as well.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Remove burning AND reduce fear damage? Wow that would bury necro. We would be worse than before by far.

You’ve got Torment. If they change the Dhuumfire trait to Torment on crit, we’d be toned down but Necros would still have good damage. Torment is a powerful condition. Add more ways to stack it and you have a very formidable attrition profession.

swinsk.6410:

Why don’t we all just quit our characters and start playing necros and engis?

Seems like what ANet wants us to do…

I think what Anet wants you to do is find a counter to the meta but apparently we are too busy whining to do that. You want someone in some high ranking team to do the same thing Super Squad did when they ran a Warrior with Battle Standard, or when Teldo went back to playing Flamethrower/Bomb kit. You’re not willing to counter the meta, only willing to complain about it.

The thing about your build Phaeton is, after those 10 seconds of Beserker stance, you’re a walking timebomb. The fear chain would eat you alive.

Unfortunately for Necros, they haven’t had much experience dealing with this build yet so it’s going to be very difficult for them at first but when they figure out you don’t have Stability (except from Lyssa), they’ll just rip you to shreds.

Authority.6145:

When did teams stop playing double elementalist again? And you did make a post on forum stating that an S/D thief needs a nerf because because YOU used to be an aggressive far-pointer. After the nerfs you are still here asking for more nerfs.

An elementalist asks for nerfs on a thief as if the thief can 100-0 that class or as if the thief is on the same “balance spread sheet” as an elementalist. Want to compare what an elementalist brings to the team with an S/D thief just to show you how ridiculous your justified complains are?

Lets look at this in another way,

What does S/D do better than other classes?*

Aoe damage? None.
Raw damage? Why would you play it if it didn’t have damage?
Burst damage? None.
Getting one-shotted? Absolutely not.
Condition damage? None.
Condition removal? Shadow Step
Returning conditions? None.
Might-stacking? When Stolen
Self-sustained boons? When Stolen
Self-rezing skill? None.
Rezing an ally while he is downed? Shadow Refuge
Fear, Knockback? When Stolen
Kicking off the point close holders? None.
Holding a point 1v2? Not even worth typing.
Close-point holder? Not even worth typing.
Mobility superiority? Shadow Trap, Infiltrator’s Arrow, Shadowstep, infiltrator’s signet
Stability? When Stolen or using Lyssa
Being the best far-point contester? Not even close.
Passing/sharing boons with the team? None.
Supporting the team with heals? None.

Corrected to be fair and less one-sided. Don’t get me wrong, I’m an advocate for keeping S/D thieves the way they are but you have to stick with the facts and not leave holes in your argument.

prozon.3561:

Agree….. worst meta ever true, but i cant understand why anet needs the kitten long timefor rreact and prepare their mistakes…. 1week after the patch has the nerfhammer showed up…. and still it need months for just reparing past mistakes.

If they listened to all those people who said Eles were weak early in the game and buffed them immediately, what would have happened? If they listened to all those people who said Rangers were weak and buffed them immediately, what would have happened?

In each of those cases, almost every person who said Eles were weak or Rangers were weak came back and said, “Eles are OP with their healing and dps and Rangers are OP with their evading and pets damage and condi spam”

The best thing they can do for the game is let the meta settle and find a counter to it. If people are smart, they’ll start running two stun Warriors against two Necros.