Guild Wars 2

rotten.9753:

Drayos.8759:

Obviously the WH will be a Offensive weapon, prolly holding Massive damaging Nukes from range allowing us to have Long and Short ranged capability in one set up giving u exactly what u have asked for now 2 years.

Since we have a ranged hammer, a melee staff, etc, our warhorn will be definitely close range. It’s only logical that if tempest mechanic (singularity) has 180 range then warhorn needs to supplement that. There’s literally no reason to have a ranged capability if your mechanics don’t support it.

its a fair point, to say singularity Does in a way show melee capabilities wanted here, which i found weird seeing as it was a Warhorn with smaller range then the dagger itself.

Which either makes me think Although weapon wise its a Warhorn it will not look like one in customization, Maybe afterall we are looking at a Melee Weapon, and the Warhorn on the Elementalist brings out some form of Windblade or something conjured From the weapon itself, which is very far feitched, but with the indication of something not only Indicating Ranged but also Showing alot of Melee Support fori t.

my question is,

Warhorn would prolly come under a main hand u’d expect range capability from.

Singularity, Currently goes very against what any of our mainhands are used for which is quick attunment swapping to gain survivability / damage / mobility etc etc from constantly and Singularity promotes staying in attunements for longer durations.. which goes against quite abit that we are currently very used to managing.

What is the warhorn ment to be? I mean theres a ton of things that it could be, For example exactly what i said before.

A Instrument such as the Warhorn Used to Collect air and build a Windblade, giving us a Melee Offhand which then u’d have to ask is 1) why would they decide on the warhorn to give us such a thing, it must of been way more work then just giving us a Sword so part of me things Nah it cant be them designing a More magical Melee Weapon.

The Warhorn directly affects main hand, Our main hand weapons act differently with the Warhorn in our offhand, but that’d result in a full 5 ability per attunement working, which would be ALOT of skills to give us, which would bring the question to why not just give us Greatsword for alot less work.

Or we’re being built to very closely represent the Nightblade, a Magical Assassin which holds abilities that scale from Pure melee to Mid Range and have More of a Mobility and Instant Nuking Capabilities, which is possible given its offhand allowing us to use the Damaging attacks such as Lightning Whip from the main hand Dagger but this would almost define us to Permanantly using Main hand dagger and nothing else, if this off hands is a Pure Damage source, It wouldnt support sceptar in the slightest

Or maybe Dagger will go out the window, and the warhorn will be a condi weapon, Dealing Air and Lightning Conditional Damage, as if a Tornado was Slowly ripping a body apart, holding Bleeds (broken Trees houses etc etc that would be thrown around into people causing severe damage) Heavy Winds on the human body Causing pain and Pulling you around throwing u distances etc etc and CC (Electricuting u causing Paralyzation or Immobility) With Fire maniuplating the tornado to consume fire to burn Opponants alive in its flows.

that would possibly bring Sceptar INTO the meta to go with it over the dagger which would Leave Dagger out of our Elite specc set up which would really shift meta, but given that ALOT would demand reworking the Sceptar to be less clunky.

Or maybe we’re all wrong and the WH will be a Mainhand weapon afterall, Maybe being a Windblade or having some Effect which brings out a completely Melee Aspect of play, Maybe they wanted a More Magical Feeling Way to introduce what people want the sword for and thats why they stopped with the sword and felt to go with something more unusual With a unique feel and then everybody here QQing on this and threatening to quit and refusing the expansion will feel like utter morons and they watch Elementalists Actually get a More Suited Swordsman Style come to them.

Grimreaper.5370:

gs would have been cool, axe would have been cool, I REALLY wanted a sword… Warhorn makes me think support… ugh…

yeeeeh, it isnt going to be support in the slightest, we all know that lets face it NOTHING in this expansion has been keeping with the flow of what base game had.

Necromancer – Greatsword Slower Swings, Heavy Damage Lots of Finishers 0 Leaps, irregular to what the Greatsword commonly does.

Guardian – Longbow Support features and Not full Power, Very different to general use of the bow, If ur looking at Ranger LB which is Pure Damage.

Chronomancer – Shield some how connected with time and a fifth Shatter.

Revenant – Melee Staff and Ranged Hammer, Hammer being a Slow throwing weapon uncommon for ranged Damage and Melee Support hasnt been seen before tbh, so very different.

Rumoured thief Staff – Not only is it a DPS Staff which is un-normal it too is Melee…. so again irregular.

Obviously the WH will be a Offensive weapon, prolly holding Massive damaging Nukes from range allowing us to have Long and Short ranged capability in one set up giving u exactly what u have asked for now 2 years.

Dont forget Ele Dagger – since when was Dagger a Ranged Weapon :P.

Revenant Staff. Rumoured thief Staff Reaper Greatsword

there isnt realistically much keeping to the baselines of what each weapon set people seem to beleive they do, theres no simularity between Dragonhunters LB and Rangers LB theres no simularity between how a Mesmer and Rangers use Torch.

its Just basically a group of people who think swords look cooler therefore WH couldnt be good.

tbh im hyped, i was dissapointed at the sword rumours, at the end of the day, i rolled a mage, not a thief not a warrior i dont expect to be stuck with a hack and slash playstyle thats heavily reliant on rolling around evading peoples attacks through various abilities, its just makes 0 sense for a Wizard to ever consider doing that, it was a Illogical idea and tbh just not needed in the slightest. Mages have throughout MMO history been full Casters and Never seen a Disadvantage.

I am hoping the warhorn brings some Long ranged Powerful nuking capability, to add that variation of ranged capability when ur normal Dagger capabilities such as Lightning whip is just out of reach

Either way i cant wait to see it.

Junkpile.7439:

Offhand dagger have all ele skills that actually make ele worth playing so this warhorn will be useless.

Really?… lol cause no actually that isnt true at all..

Lightning whips great… and is on mainhand Dagger.

burning speeds great and is on mainhand Dagger And Warhorn could be better anyway tbh, u have no idea.

Plot twist

Tempest Summons Wind blade from the Warhorn

Laraley.7695:

Eleazyair.5716:

This actually makes me excited about making an ele. Sword would have been boring, warhorn is much cooler!

I really don’t get people like you. What’s so cool about warhorn? The same animations for most of the skills? The very similar skills warhorn has across the classes? The fact it’s usually some kind of buff/support weapon? Or the idea ele could summon storms, which is already does with 7 skills btw?

Ele has no true melee, dagger is short range PBAoE, scepter is midrange and trash. There’s seriously so little option in the mainhands and we got enough offhands that are great already. What sense does it make to give eles offhand?

we see past Cosmetics, also just find Swords overrated, Im sorry but u rolled a Mage, Expect to be Ranged, its been this way for YEARS in MMOS and has never been a Disadvantage to the classes throughout games, how u can suddenly expect proffessions to be ripped away from their orgins is just ridiculous u Signed up to be a Mage.. and Expected it to be a thief.

Hack and Slash and Running around Spamming Evades like a Ranger is boring theres nothing cool or magical about a guy rolling around u repeatively stabbing u in the sides, I dont get why u want that, realistically that is all swords ever have done. its a boring concept, and i’ve never enjoyed any of the sword designs.

However Necro – Loved the Dagger/Warhorn, it was a fun playstyle for sure, so i cannot put the Warhorn down due to actually enjoying some of the styles of it, specially as this will Most likely be a very offensive version of the Warhorn bringing New Mechanics and Possibly a new F5 as its known they give Off hand weapons ALOT of new mechanics to make up for the Less skills in comparison to the main hand.

its a DIfferent Expansion a Different Meta a Different Era and No proffession will play the same as they do now or have done before, to say What would and would not be the best for a proffession is just untrue, not aimed at u but alot of warhorn hate is aimed at “OMG WE NEED CLEAVE ITS A MUST” and its untrue, No one knows WHat elementalist will need in HoT, nobody has played it or could possibly know what is coming so how they can know so much about the Proffession which isnt even here amazes me, wait to see what it brings and What its capabilities are in the new expansion before Claiming it isnt good for the elementalist to have.

I made a Elementalist to nuke things, Not Slash things down like a Warrior, i want to see the Warhorn i want big Animations i Want Massive Storms and Huge Damage… I wanna Unload Fiery Icy and Tornados Of Pure Doom and Power!

rotten.9753:

Leo G.4501:

And just because a focus could do what a warhorn can regarding skill use doesn’t mean it will do what the other does and vise versa. Actually, I would go so far as to say they most definitely will not do the same thing if we do happen to get a warhorn.

Obviously, you are right. Focus doesn’t give swiftness.

umm apart from the Mined Martial Arts DPS Staff for the Thief which was mined from the same load as the warhorn.

Also greatsword doesnt mechanically work as a greatsword, the swing rate and Finisher capability is more Hammers, also no leap etc etc which GS Generally carry sooo no it doesnt fit what GS would normally do for any standard proffessions currently.

LB Being a half SUpportive weapon for Guardian, where normally its a Power Long ranged Weapon, the Dragonhunter jumps to allys and things while having damaging capabilities too.

Offhands have proven to rework mechanics, Chronomancer got fifth shatters and a Whole new emchanic, Likelyhood Elementalist will be given a New F5 and some new mechanics to bring interesting plays forward.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Sword was the only chance I was going to get the expo as a PvP ele player. Sorry to those of you who did, I’ll see you guys around as that classic d/d cele arc/water/X ele were all still going to be.

Lol makes 0 sense, U have no idea what the weapon set will do, you have no idea what the traitlines will do, so how can u say “Oh it’ll be useless” cause u cant, it could be ridiculously strong…. making assumptions just cause it wasnt what u think it needs, News flash, Ur a Mage wanna be Melee? go roll a Warrior.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Honestly the ONLY way they can bring this back is to either say
A. “Just kidding”
B. “LOOK A SWORD BEHIND THE BACK”
C. Just be honest and admit to not understanding the ele class in the slightest and apologize to the community. Start communicating and posting on the forms asking for our opinion. Work with the top members of the ele community and work to fix our class with people who understand it.

“u dont understand the proffession cause u dont think the proffession needs what i think it does”. yeah, cause this expansion Weapon sets really have been used in their generic use, with melee Staff, DPS Staff for Thief, Throwing Hammers, and More Hammerish Damaging GS for Necro, stop trying to put everyone elses ideas down.

you have no idea how the warhorn will work or any new mechanics they’ll introduce to the proffession, so how can u know its capabilities so well before u even have seen what it is. its pretty obvious its going to be a Offensive weapon with alot of Damage tbh.

i legit want those animations XDDDDD

its nothing like a “punch in the face”

how can people get this hurt over something they never had or had any information over, u have no idea what sword could have been therefore u cant place judgment over it tbh

Lol we dont get what some players wanted so we’re compared to necros…

we’re still one of the top pvp proffessions in the game, that hasnt changed so stop doomsaying this entire thing.

Grimreaper.5370:

trino.4832:

IMO this idea has a few flawes. It would make weaken the arcane trait line or down right obsolete the attunement reduction benefit of it. It would also make the grand master fresh air trait completely pointless

Instead of having it “weaken” the arcana traitline or destroy freshair you could have the tempest recieve this option via a gm trait.

It would be a trade off. More diversity in combo potential in compensation for higher icd for attunement procs. Sword can then truely be all about a skillful assassin type playstyle which really depends on the player to properly execute abilities successfully with tactical play in mind. Much more interesting than relying on a build to carry the player.

I realize there are other factors that need to be considered too… But the class could potentially become soo much more interesting if more complex combos were allowed.

i feel complexity doesnt create enjoyment or interest, if a proffession gets too complex it’ll just go into a deadzone, nobody wants to have to give themselves headaches smashing buttons with Korean Keybashing capabilities, games are to have fun not overall frustrate and kitten u off, so no, the idea of the complexity of combos increasing i dont think would make the proffession more fun just way more elitist.

Grimreaper.5370:

Wolfric.9380:

But its better for the mass when a build carries the player. A game that relies on hard training, fast internet lines, strong computers and good reflexes is doomed to shrink and end als small elite Game. If you want fun for the mass of players, its all about build diversity and strenght of counterbuilds. (If you focus on PvP/WvW, for PvE you need content). If you have only a few viable builds for PvP and rely on the above mentioned factors, the game will move into a dead end for power players.

I agree there should still be builds for casual players. Thats why this could be an option for players up for the challenge. It wouldnt be a trait you had to take.

until one balancing patch where its stronge rthen the other options and ur forced to either handicap urself or Play it :P.. meta changes and everything see’s sunlight, its a bad idea to force complexity into a trait system where it’ll eventually force everyone into its grip from time time.

this sort of New mechanics idea should be kept for a seperate class and built into it from the start, not introduced 3 years after the proffessions release in a New trait line, i dont feel like increasing the complexity by those sorts of levels is a good idea.

Everybody knows, a Warhorns a real mans toy Kappa.

On a real note, i feel Singularity although will involve less juggling of the Elements is a good thing, fast forwarding through elements constantly is fun but at the end of the day being a Jack of all trades only excells so far and this might finally bring Water out of Mandatory given the fact u wont be needing it as much due to less use of the element as a whole.

Some hate D/X some will hate the new Elite others will hate Swords.. Some hate melee, the fact is no matter what they do someone will be dissapointed, thats just factual nobody can change that happening.

Some like focus. others Hate focus, Most Eles i see are staff or D/D I see very few D/Fs running around specially with D/D and Staff listed as eles strongest builds.

well we all hope it isnt a support weapon that really would suck.

well thats true :P but focus isnt used in many meta/high tier builds anyway.

skullfaerie.7203:

Drayos.8759:

you are just taking a current concept of the sword and Putting it on Ele and thinking AWESOME.

No idea what you’re on about. Find just one instance of me mentioning swords at all in this conversation. Just one. Even just the word sword.
Hint: I’ve not mentioned it a single time, nor have I expressed a preference for it.

it isnt Aimed at Just specifically you, u were just the last person i responded to via the quotes Before i mentioned it, but 99% of the rage against warhorn is that it isnt a Sword and Isnt a mainhand im just pointing out that Having a sword doesnt mean it’ll be what playuers think the sword will give them.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Sekai.2987:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Sekai.2987:

well , gj at kittening it up anet , cant belive we get such a useless piece of kitten , majority of ppl i talked to wanted the sword so bad and new we get that junk

and not to mention that fantasy wise it would make more sense that an ele can create a sword from fire or lighting to fight and a kittening warhorn belongs to the warriors , who the kitten thinks of a warhorn when you talk about elementalists

i was looking so much forward to the new weapon and new we get that junk , im incredible dissapointed and i think you have made a huge mistake anet

i simply lost any to motivation to play ele at all, guess i will spend my time on thief/mes from now on

Oh, you already know what weapon skills and utility skills the Tempest Specialisation will get? Please share us your inside knowledge!

its a kittening warhorn , useless piece of kitten , no matter the skills the sowrd would always be better

You dont know if you are not going to get an utility that conjures a sword for you to use with your warhorn…and i very much doubt you are going to abandon your overpowered facemelting elementalist to play anything else….. Specially mesmers who get a whooping…. Shield

hmm lets stack this up

Mesmer v Elementalist… this mans saying Ele is the OP one?.. sorry incorrect, Mesmer is, point proven by 99% of players and even mesmers admitting to it… PU is Ridiculous the power creeps ridiculous and possibly one of the best ways of keeping 25 stacks of might on urself and 25 stacks of vun on ur enemy almost instantly..

Not to mention the abilities with that shield could destroy a enemy team in seconds providing u learn to use it, dont act as if eles the one whos OP When ur talking mesmer buddy, we all know who needs nerfing.

Kalendraf.9521:

I think warhorn for ele could be fantastic, and it may open up some AoE options that a traditional weapon wouldn’t really fit. I’m expecting that the warhorn may give eles access to some new AoE attacks with effect areas that completely change-up what players have been used to. Instead of simple line and circle AoEs, the warhorn might give them access to cone/pie-shaped AoEs possibly able to hit vastly larger areas at longer ranges. The skills could also have strengths of damage or effect at different ranges.

It brings back fond memories of some first edition D&D campaigns with the Horn of Blasting. It could blast through castle gates (using structural damage rules), or it could demolish a large group of foes. If they used something like that for inspiration, the ele spec’s warhorn skills could be really potent, and the class could be lots of fun to play.

im looking at it more as in

We FINALLY have the option to have both Short and Long Ranged! people are acting as if they have been demanding swords for years, which is untrue, Elementalists have Raged at the fact their the only class with 0 capability to be both Long and SHort ranged in combat.

Guess what? if they make the warhorns capabilities be 1200 Ranged BOOM u have ur Short range (Dagger) and Long ranged (Warhorn) so no actually they have done EXACTLY as u’ve asked potientally,

and given with hte last offhand they got some MAJOR new mechanics and Set ups, i’d say the Elementalist prolly has additional features coming too, im sorry but i dont really see any bad side in wha tthey’re doing

Necromancers been a Dagger/Warhorn proffession for a LONG time, and it works well for them, it could also work well for us!. u could trick them into reacting to u as if ur a Necro and then blow them up!

Sekai.2987:

well , gj at kittening it up anet , cant belive we get such a useless piece of kitten , majority of ppl i talked to wanted the sword so bad and new we get that junk

and not to mention that fantasy wise it would make more sense that an ele can create a sword from fire or lighting to fight and a kittening warhorn belongs to the warriors , who the kitten thinks of a warhorn when you talk about elementalists

i was looking so much forward to the new weapon and new we get that junk , im incredible dissapointed and i think you have made a huge mistake anet

i simply lost any to motivation to play ele at all, guess i will spend my time on thief/mes from now on

hmmm…

Lets just think about ur first statement.

“A Sword Wielding MAGE makes more sense then a Mage Shouting out to the Skys to call Down thunder”… alright, wrong… I’d say Sword is the Warriors Weapon, Considering their a master of Weaponary so i guess u just contradicted urself once.

“Creating Lightening/Fiery swords” you have that conjures, if u wield a actual sword u arnt creating Weapons to fight the opponants out of Elements are you, so again thats wrong (im fully aware our conjures suck and need buffing)

Quitting a class down to cosmetic and not sticking around to atleast see whats going on is just outright lame it could be completely different to what ur assuming it’ll be, its ridiculous to quit a class ur apprantly “love” over a Weapon u’ve never had.

skullfaerie.7203:

RoseofGilead.8907:

I said that the knee-jerk reaction of “They gave ele a warhorn, so I’m not playing ele anymore” is childish. You know nothing about how the elite spec is going to work, and instead of waiting to find out how it’s going to work (and whether or not you’d have to deign to touch a filthy warhorn), you’re just tossing the out the baby with the bathwater.

That still amounts to you trying to tell me how I am to react, which is not your place. If people don’t want to wait for the full reveal to start being annoyed, this is their prerogative.
I dislike this. I have disliked this since the first time it was hinted at. It remains to be seen if the full reveal can change that. Simple as that. Get over it and let people react however they please.

he isnt telling u how u should react, hes pointing out how a Mature Rational Adult would react, that is completely different, the fact is you have never had the sword, or any knowledge to what abilities the sword would be given, you have no idea if Sword would be better then Staff or Dagger and u have no concept of what they would and would not design for the weapon, for all you know Sword could have been a 1200 Ranged Healing Support weapon Via Channeling Electric into his allys to gain fury and Quickness.

you are just taking a current concept of the sword and Putting it on Ele and thinking AWESOME.

the warhorns happening and it could be in multiple aspects awesome but due to how it consmetically looks people put it down.

Linfang.1087:

Are you guys all artists? Because you are all very good at drawing conclusions.

You have no clue what abilities it can create. What skills you can use and what it summons.

they arnt drawing conclusions, they’re building a opinon ofwhat it could be using what the Warhorn is generically for, it was obvious it being a warhorn would give quite a few a distaste to it, 90% of the community wanted a sword.

I expected the reactions to be worse people were threatening to quit over this matter.

however aslong as it turns out to be REALLY exceptional i doubt people will mind too much, Replacing the fact our mainhands are pretty weak will prove challanging though unless they are fixing issues with the mainhand weapon sets for us aswell.

Kolisch.4691:

It just looks ugly. If it’s a sword off hand even with the same skills, the complaints will drop by half. I mean, who wants to be seen running around blowing a snail shell.

well Anet love all their weapon ideas, so therefore warhorn isnt at a lesser hand in their eyes, Also no people want sword cause they hate mainahnds and this means they’ll still be made to use those to see these new abilities coming with the warhorn.

Sure it isnt the coolest weapon but its fine…. it isnt a Snail shell, its a Horn and Lets face it something u’d obviously use when shouting into the sky for thunder.

MrSilver.5269:

Question: do we know whether we will be required to use warhorn in the specialization, or if our other weapon sets are available?

If we do know what’s the answer?

THANKS!

No you do not have to use the warhorn to be a tempest, however if warhorn becomes better then any other offhands or something it brings is more required then the staff you maybe putting urself at a handicap not using it.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

We already have an awesome offensive/uility offhand and an awesome defensive/utility offhand… what is this supposed to be replacing exactly?

Why weren’t our terrible mainhands replaced?

Dagger is not terribad, its just not great for Zerging, other then that its good in both SPVP and Roaming in the current builds, Sceptars is the bad mainhand, so just go Dagger or go staff if ur zerging its simple.

rotten.9753:

Judging by the datamined singularity concept, this spec might bring a playstyle of staying in one attunement rather than swapping them constantly.

well staying in longer… as far as i could see… we got pulse damage and things if we delayed how quickly we run through each specc, im assuming this is to try push this whole Jack of trades Hit everything playstyle we currently have and to be more capable of excelling in one area… i mean afterall i’d like to see more Damaging builds go up, D/D is great for sustain and things but we have nothing inthe Meta for just Pure explosive damage, so hopefully this will draw away from Support and bring more Power/AoE and Powerhouse Nuking.

nearlight.3064:

1. Elementalists are like the best class in the game, so stop complaining. It’s so so horrible that you can’t do anything in pvp without water and arcane, all that sustain must get so boring compared to playing necromancer and being hammer trained time and time again.

2. We don’t know what the warhorn or elite spec will do at all, so complaining about a weapon is foolish when you have little more than a speculative guess about what it will do.

3. You can spec into tempest without using the warhorn, after all it could offer great things for D/D ele in terms of new utilities. Honestly most mesmers that spec into chronomancer will take torch over shield, and I can guarantee that. Meanwhile the necro GS is so slow that it won’t be a given take on many pvp builds with all t he blind spam right now.

4. There are tons of great warhorn skins available if you’re able to drop the coin on black lion skin. I have howler so it’s not my concern, but there are plenty of other warhorn skins that would go awesome with my Ele like the tempest warhorn or the ley line warhorn (I have all the leyline Ele weapons).

1) I doubt u can say that, currently the burst is just simply ruling everything, Yeah elementalist can survive.. but only through so much eventually they will just be out bursted and die like the rest and due to ur tankyness u’ll just get focus’d harder

Rampage is OP as hell so warriors currently can carry themselves through fights wiuth that, and Disrupt Mantra Mesmers currently do also cause alot of problems.. thats without the mindless thief stacking that will trainwreck u with HS Spams, so no i dont think any proffessions “clearly the best proffession”

but no they’re in a strong place right now and i feel WH should be given atleast a chance.

P.S no all warhorns look crap, Warhorn as a weapon is cosmetically crap…. its a Horn…. Horns dont look good in a Weapon slot… true story, but either way looking past that im sure there will be positives in this.

cobalt.1846:

Drayos, all toons in GW2 are right handed and the support goes in the left, which the art depicts. I wouldn’t mind duel wielding or main hand warhorn but at the moment the wardrobe has warhorns as off hand only.

I’ll probably be a tempest with a staff… Staff is like an STD to me… keep trying to use the other weapons but keep going back to Staff.

Staffs are generically Ranged.

Thief and Rev broke that..

hammers melee? Rev broke that.

Its obvious this expansion they’re not using anything for their generic Use.

For example the Reaper, it wields a GS Sword SLOWER and more pactful then regular GS, the damage and Speed scaling fits to a Hammer not a greatsword, breaking the actual use for Greatswords there.

Ranged Hammers for the rev, this has never happened, they have a Slow bulky ranged weapon while Wielding their staffs in melee combat, Not only does support generically come from ranged weapon sets but the Weapon it self is used COMPLETELY differently by 2 classes currently.

So yes right now thats true… its completely untrue in Expansion though, everythings changing.

Ashamir.9574:

I still don’t understand why they couldn’t just have given us a main hand. We have two good off hands already, there’s a lot more need for a melee main hand. Also if the warhorn doesn’t have a fire field it will be worth crap.

At the moment I don’t see how they want to sell that weapon to ele players.

prolly cause we raged at the idea so much Anet felt they needed to prove something and took it on :P, we did go mental over the idea, well i didnt im not entirely against it tbh, i mean the Sword would be cooler looks / Apperance wise specially when customing its looks and things where the warhorns animations arnt really there.

Why will it need to be better then staff?…. in SPVP and Roaming currently most wield the Dagger/Dagger combination, so in alot of the circumstances u wouldnt even use the staff for anything past bunkering points in SPVP if u are becoming a bunker..

So it only actually needs to be better then the second dagger in those aspects of pvp atleast.

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/623161106425606144/photo/1

as u can see by the art, its a human calling down a storm via a warhorn, and it clearly dipicts the Elementalist, its also posted by ANet confirming the suspicion that the elementalist will defintly get the Warhorn.

Now we read for weeks now, people threatening to quit the game, delete their characters or just overall look for another proffession to main due to this, so really what are peoples reactions now its true?..

By the art it doesnt look like a support weapon at all, and the arts amazing on the side note though.

oZii.2864:

Stepping into the OP’s hyperbolic vacuum of class comparisons.

If they give Ele’s weapon swap then should we also have a energy cost tied to all off our weapon skills, utilities, and elite’s?

You know because they slapped us in the face, because they simply gave Revenant’s weapon swaps without consideration of it’s other defining mechanics.

So if you RTL, Updraft, drakes breath, then fire grab someone you might not be able to activate Armor of Earth because you used all your energy. Balance Achieved!

/sarcasm

tbh arguments you could put towards that, is the actual state of each proffession

The Revenant was so underpowered that it wouldnt even make a difference, it was just fodder and nobody managed to kill a soul with the kitten thing, therefore it didnt require such looking into as the other parts are in the middle of creation so they can just alter it while creation.

Elementalist is pretty balanced even if it does lack variety, so would require changes.

i understand the point though.

NGL, but warhorn does seem alot more likely then the swords tbh, i feel like people saying this warhorn could be a placeholder or be there for a multitude of reasons which means it isnt 100% for the Tempest, but tbh, its only a argument cause some want to somehow reassure themselves the warhorn isnt happening.

I wouldnt be arguing against it, dont get your hopes up for it as it’ll only dissapoint you further due to it not being a sword, im not sure they’d give us a Melee Assassin styled playstyle to begin with and the datamined Sword Skills are apprantly just placeholders for Daggers.

its obvious what jitters argument truly is

Hes stating that the thief proffession has too many complexitys in its Mechanics for a Second player to understand and although he himself can kill thiefs continously and find them to be balanced, his team mates are continously dying to them

He wants the proffession Nerfed so a Player of a Lesser IQ than himself is capable of killing the proffession so he can no longer suffe rthe inconvinence. Apprantly ur Education DOES matter in the MMO World too! lmfao.

you cant NERF a class cause u play with a bunch of Morons, thats just ridiculous, if ur team mates are that bad they cant figure basic counters out then that aint no thiefs fault thats YOUR fault for solo queuing pvp, everybody knows PvP is FULL of idiots

not to mention half the community permanantly run VERY bad unviable builds for the Fun aspect or Roleplaying so they are handicapping themselves MAKING it easier for the thief to fecking kill em!

Lemme guess jitters u think PU Mesmers and Rampage warriors are perfectly viable as morons can play it Well as it takes Nothing but faceroll and Elite Spam to progress with it, they both do MORE damage then thief and have WAY More utility CC and Interupts then the thief.

welcome to the reason ANET ignore thief SUb forums, cause its 50% Raging morons who Hate a Rogue styled proffession ever sinc ethe big bad rogue touched u back in WoW

lets run through the classes Odds

thief has NO Capability to build itself to counter proffessions instantly, they do not hold that capability we just run the highest damaging build and rely on our own knowledge to get passed that barrier.

Thief has no Access to any bunker or point holding set ups, so they already suffer with being useless in one aspect of the pvp requirements.

Thief has no Access to any CC Styled builds, thiefs CC is Pretty low outself the fact we have some blinds and stuns.

Our Elite options are considerably weaker then other proffessions when compared to one another.

we Have No support or Healing variation. we have 0 Invunerabilitys to deflect damage either.

All our proffession has is Mobility and Damage and ur wanting to directly nerf both of them, its Just Ridiculously Moronic to ever suggest it….. Leave thief alone for god sake go pester some other proffessions about having things they can abuse in their skillsets.. PU Mesmers Rampaging Warriors Burn Guardians and Sustain Necros are 100x Worse then what we’re currently doing!

Jitters.9401:

You need to remove stealth gained via blackpowder and heartseeker.

1) Basilisk Venom Steal/cloak and dagger for stealth = dmge up to 7k
2) Backstab = damage up to 9k
3) Dodge/evade till reveal is over.
4) Attempt to Stealth with either cloak and dagger or
5) blackpowder/heartseeker for stealth/healing/condi clear.

I don’t mind the steps 1,2,3,4. I do not do much damage per hit, but I can still win even if I get hit for that initial 16k damage. Other classes can win even after the insane burst.

It is the blackpowder/heartseeker that is an issue. We see it all the time. Problem is, in the forums, no-one has specifically pointed out where the issue of thief stealth lies.

Fact
All the thieves who use this are running remove conditions on stealth and regen in stealth.
Fact
They use this skill to remove all condition damage and heal up to 100% while their opponent is sitting visible the entire time with no ability to heal more then a modest amount.
Fact
The balance is way off. I refuse to play this way just to win a fight.

It makes sense to not allow people the ability to nearly God Mode an aspect of the game.
1) I can’t kill diamond skin ele’s. I’m ok with that.
2) Some of the mesmers stealth so much I can’t kill them either. I’m ok with that.
3) A thief with good morals hits me for 16k (steps 1-3) total and I’m ok with that too.

I’m not ok with a god mode thief build. It ruins the game play and enjoyment of far more people then the number of idiots who use it.

If you remove the blackpowder/heartseeker stealth you will see far far less people complaining about thief stealth in the forums. The only people who will complain will be those who abuse the god mode just because they are bottom dwellers who feed off of ruining other people’s game play.

They will never kill me, but I am writing this post for those who can never escape a fight with a build that should never exist. As it stands, with issues like this, I have no inclination to buy your expansion.

LOL WUT?!.

Thief is perfectly fine as it is, any further Nerfing and thief will just become Ridiculously Underpowered, to take that from us with 0 compensation is just stupid, why dont we just go to ur main class and remove its MAIN MECHANICS from it so ur also a sitting duck.

this is Utterly Moronic and COMPLETELY selfish to wish a Proffession to become Unviable just because u have a Distaste for the kitten proffession! thiefs can stand up and Win if they’re good DEAL WITH IT every proffession should have that and they do on so many different Levels!

Mesmers currently HAVE stronger stealth within PU and other traits which they dont have to blow their Utility CDs to activate! if people are Struggling to get past thief is Because they are mindlessly running around by themselves which is STUPID because in SPVP it is MADE for teamplay, the game is NOT balanced for 1v1 situations so we shouldnt be nerfed cause Someone saw a easy Kill on some noob running naround like a headless chicken!

if you got a problem with People healing/Regening/building Resources such as Initative from Stealth thats a DIFFERENT conversationu ask for Shadow Arts and PU to be Nerfed u dont just Nerf their utility Constantly to try sap it out of them that way, thief can be viable WIthout Shadow Arts it CANNOT be viable without stealth we’re too squishy to live that sort of nerf and anyone with anything close to a Brain would know that we’re Designed AS the stealthers of the game! why ruin the ENTIRE purpose of our proffession.

U look for Nerfs which WONT ruin a class WHich is to change Shadow Arts to STOP players Just repeatively regening via Stealth builds as a thief can easily swap it into Critical Strikes and Still work perfectly fine.

before u claim im just another player who runs the build i do not

I run Critical strikes / trickery / Deadly Arts

And no i replaced blinding powder with Assassins Signet.

Marthkus.4615:

Einlanzer.1627:

Thieves are not in a good place right now. Asking for nerfs is insane. They have middle of the road burst with worse condi removal than most classes and basically die in one hit from anything.

Mesmers are for more OP than Thieves right now.

Actually nerfing the burst would allow for greater buffs to all other aspects of the thief. Like a better acrobatics line or the ability not to have to build crit or suck.

Sooo by this Forums Complaints.

1) we want Thiefs to have 0 Utility.

2) we dont want thiefs to have their Main Mechanics.

3) we dont want thiefs to burst.

4) We want to buff Survivability to make them bunkers.

very thief fitting.

Right, so we saw the shiro, yes its a Assassin style of play, Yes it does mean thiefs no longer are the only proffession to have that gameplay available to them, is thief going to die? No.

Shiro is but ONE weapon set of Many for the Revenant, It’ll NEVER stay viable 100% of the time not even 50% of the time, Arena net like to ensure every Set up gets its moment in the light to keep the meta changing so nobody gets bored of playing the exact same thing.

If Shiro recieves Nerfs making it Underpowered or Just cannot do what the meta at the time requires them to be capable of they’ll have no chjoice but to no longer equipt it, u can argue “thiefs have ALWAYS done this and ALWAYS been in meta” thats because thats ALL a thief has, they only have that ONE type of play, they have to make Meta WITH THat gameplay, Revenant is Different, its Condi build has 0 Assassin playstyle neither does its Staff or Hammer, As soon as COndi Meta arrives or Sustain where Staff will be becoming required shiro will go out the window Thiefs never going to, they’ll just find a build whi8ch fits that current position.

At the end of the day, if ur going to roll shiro, go for it, but dont QQ when its made Useles or retired due to the Meta changes which will happen, if ur rolling a Proffession for ONE weapon set ur asking to get Annoyed at some point.

Dex.6139:

lighter.2708:

Watch your shiro get reckt by thieves and rage quit and back to your thief.

That’s really up to the skill of the player. You win some you lose some. You learn, adapt, try new builds and move on.

My main in GW1 was an Assassin/x. When GW2 came out, I was hoping to play my sin again but the closest thing at the time was Thief, so that became my main.

So now we have Shiro, the Assassin character I was looking for. Ty, Anet.

I know I’m going to miss out on stealth, blinds, bv , steal and the holy bp – hs combo. I’m ok with trying something else for now.

not always down to skill tbh, proffession can turn the tides there, natural counters are on all proffessions it just depends on which one will counter the other to who has the advantage if u ever got stuck 1v1ing one another,

Looking at shiro itself it looks very strong, but unless ur going to either run half healing with the staff which will lower ur damage output and depend how good the healing really is while traited into damage or go hammer which is pretty slow and didnt prove to be worth alot of damage for a ranged option which by speculation the shortbow on the thief wil be stronger then naturally.

your realistically going to only have 1 weapon which will directly fight against a thief, rev has proven to be very squishy as a proffession so u wont even have the heavy armour to rely on when it comes to fighting either so u’ll be even squisher now ur delving into Zerker builds to maximise the damage in the new Assassins Set up.

Not to mention, u really want to puit urself 100% behind only ONE specific aspect which gives u assassin feeling play? it isnt a elite specialization Where the obvious meta will be on its launch, this Shiro specc could be permanantly at the bottom of the tier list for all u know, Anet have never been great at making EVERY Set up work for the proffessions what makes u suddenly have THIS much faith this Legend will be that viable in the Final results?

Shiro looks amazing, but no matter What set up im using thief Feels like a Assassin… i play proffessions to enjoy EVERY set up it has, Relying on 1 is just going to force u to either reroll or Constantly Put ur teams and urself at a handicap from the start off

lighter.2708:

Dex.6139:

lighter.2708:

Watch your shiro get reckt by thieves and rage quit and back to your thief.

That’s really up to the skill of the player. You win some you lose some. You learn, adapt, try new builds and move on.

My main in GW1 was an Assassin/x. When GW2 came out, I was hoping to play my sin again but the closest thing at the time was Thief, so that became my main.

So now we have Shiro, the Assassin character I was looking for. Ty, Anet.

I know I’m going to miss out on stealth, blinds, bv , steal and the holy bp – hs combo. I’m ok with trying something else for now.

im just responding to people who say revenant is so much better and kill thief for breakfast, thief dead, rev strong, nerv please.

dont worry, when the first 6 months are up and these new things are no longer new the meta will get changed, if it goes Condi sided Shiro will become useless where thief has D/D then we’ll just read them QQing over the fact this “amazing” new thing is no longer usuable.

Centring urself around 1 Specific thing in a proffession is never a wise thing, Metas change Nerfs happens things get broken, U need to love EVERYTHING in ur main proffession to really have a chance at sticking

If u love their Condi bunker Power Celestial and Hybrid Set ups then yes role one its clearly for u, but if ur just running into the class for 1 specific weapon set? Prepare to be rerolling shortly after… it just wont add up for them.

tbh its ridiculous

Majority of classes use 1 attack for the majority of their damage, your limited to 5 offensive abilities as the majority of classes so its ridiculous that players point these things out.

they’re purely just kitten that they died and blame the first thing they come up with tbh.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

And still no dev response. Meanwhile, on the Guardian forum on patch day a dev responded to QQ about lack of a SHIELD buff. Message is clear Anet, all thieves should reroll or quit I guess

thats cause guardian forum had constructive posts explaining the problem and they’re feelings, here we only see a bunch complaining on Richochet and just QQ Posts with 0 ideas of Constructive critism… what do u expect.

Half the damage of other classes?… do u even Use a build?!

I can 2-3 hit squishys instantly… and even can outdamage guardians.. sure Rampagin Warriors currently are annoying, but i never had a problem killing mesmers… im sorry but Thiefs are good.

Right so lets look at this from a Competitive point of view.

What did all top Thief players use Before patch? D/P.

What do all top thief players use now? D/P

I fail to see the Reduction in Diversity, If anything More and more players are not Using the D/P builds for S/D or D/D builds now then ever was before the patch, Just because People bring Low tier builds into pvp for Enjoyment doesnt mean they were valuable to the game.

PvP is Competitive, therefore on the majority hit a competitive scene or just would not handicap themselves or their teams to take Weak builds into pvp knowing that any knowledgable or skilled player will kill them on sight.

Builds are Diverse and nothing has changed, sure something in P/P got changed and i find it unlikely the only reason they did it was cause they didnt feel like balancing it into the new system it prolly wasnt in the direction they’re wanting to the class to result in, New Elites are coming out currently you have no idea what could and could not be done as this pre-patch is AIMED for the expansion.

Every MMO removes abilities and there are fanbases behind all the mechanics that u come by in them, its about adapting, if we all played the exact same thing all day everyday the MMO Would die out so quickly.

“cant trust you” there was no unreasonable play… there was no “ruining” of classes…

If this is soo Big in ur eyes u should prolly be retiring from MMOs itself not just GW2 every game see’s these changes… every MMO classes / Proffessions are pushed in a direction the company wants them at.

to say exactly how squishy i have built myself.

Dagger+Pistol / Shortbow.

Berserker Amulet

Runes of the Ogre.

Critical Strikes 1 1 1/ Deadly Arts 1 2 2 / Trickery 2 2 2

11.6k hp.

Shadow Step / Infiltrators Signet / Shadow Refugee

I feel i kill anything before it has a chance at killing me unless im jumping into team fights stupidly or trying to take on a direct counter to myself which has the survivability to get through my burst I.E however by Evades Mobility Invis and Teleport with careful targetting im not getting absolutely destroyed at all.

Thief is still strong even in the squishiest state.

the DPS is a obvious problem as its missing its Zerker Weapon Sets (Swords) and missing its Damage Trait lines currently so do not worry about its damage capabilities they will be added later on.

however i will agree, not a single wepaon currently there is worth the ONLY Weapon for the class.

Imho they can fix this class in 2 ways.

1) Give the class Weapon swap, this is the easiest way to add variation into the class allowing it to wield more then 1 weapon into to combat opens up brilliant combinations of weapons which may lead to more strength as a whole.

2) Legendaries change the weapon sets, this would be more unique to the class but ALOT more effort to make it work, i feel like this is the better solution if you can afford the time to create it.

For Example

Hammer

Dwarf = Melee CC/Damage Hammer.

Centaur = Ranged Condi/Utility Hammer.

Staff

Dwarf = Support Melee Staff with CC and Healing.

Centaur = Ranged Magical Staff for DPS.

this would give the rev something to swap between to add different things at different times, i feel that’d give the proffession the versitility it needs.

Tristan.5280:

So i recently start playng with my mesmer in pvp, and in one of my first match one of my teammates told me that i am using an OP class and started telling baad things of me. And this happened to others matches and other players too.

Why all this hate? I though that the most hated class was thief, not mesmer

btw, i was using a burst shatter build that a friend of mine suggested me. Is that build so OP?

Actually it was Rangers that carried ALOT of hate for a long time, Thief doesnt get that much hate really.

Mesmers currently are very strong Might stacking builds holding 10k dmg a swing ALOT and PU is quite abusable currently, its Overpowered slightly but i wouldnt say ridiculously OP or unmanagable at all, Ramapage Warrior is Defintly more OP.

All proffessions have ups and downs and get shares of hate on their ups just block players being idiots about the situation there mindless idiots who just blame proffessions for their Lacking.

I’ve fought many mesmers and managed to win plenty of times so i dont see the problem with them really tbh.. Just PU and power creep issues currently.. alot of classes have broken mechanics currently they’re being sorted out but i dont think mesmers really need any Nerfs other then PU.

kop.8724:

I was using to buy bank slots, character slots, money and others.
Anyway I will not buy anything more and I will not buy the extention.
The Thief is right now a coward in front of burning gardians, condi necros, mezmers with awsome burst skills, high capacity of hiding in order to chose the right moment to spike you or leave the fight and his multiples armors.

Well, Anet before I enjoyed thief now I change of game.

Bye

Right so lets start at the top.

Burn Guardians, Guardians have ALWAYS countered you, why is that suddenly a problem now? just like u’ve kicked the absolute crap out of Mesmers for a very long time, its only their imbalancements that are causing slight issues but still if ur good u’ll always win. so not really true.

Condition Necromancers, Yes you totally struggle against something with no mobility lol, Condi Necros cant even apply conditions without being able to transfer them off himself so i dont really understand why u cant find a counter to this, Condi necro isnt really that good v anything but another condi class.

Mesmers can do amazing burst? so can thief, u both can hit just as hard Mesmers will be nerfed and its a known fact mesmers arnt only a problem for the thief, Thief actually wins over mesmer if ur any good at the proffession..

So nope, none of these arguments are realistically… that valid.

people seem to forget.

If ur playing a OP Class fighting a OP Class then the results are balanced as u are Both just as OP As the others,

some what the Poster is Saying

if we all reroll Mesmer the game shall be balanced, but dare step out of that thin line and Suffer OP to the face.

yup same problem here :/.

The Unranked and Ranked queues are bugged, nobody can enter them.

SInce the patch as far as i can tell this bug as hit everyone and nobody can get pasted the message of “Game has updated Restart your game” constantly reguardless of how many times we relaunch GW2.

if we could get any info or anything saying this is being fixed please?

The Unranked and Ranked queues are bugged, nobody can enter them.

SInce the patch as far as i can tell this bug as hit everyone and nobody can get pasted the message of “Game has updated Restart your game” constantly reguardless of how many times we relaunch GW2.

if we could get any info or anything saying this is being fixed please?

The Unranked and Ranked queues are bugged, nobody can enter them.

SInce the patch as far as i can tell this bug as hit everyone and nobody can get pasted the message of “Game has updated Restart your game” constantly reguardless of how many times we relaunch GW2.

if we could get any info or anything saying this is being fixed please?

Umm… PU/Condi mesmers need to talk to u xD,

There are SOME op things in this game, but yeh the damage people are QQIng on is power creep due to the new expansion coming, People just havnt caught onto that.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Seriously, really, really easy. I mean it’s super easy for me to distinguish between a good, and an new/bad/average/poor Mesmer which 99% of the latter Mesmers I’ve seen post patch are. I know what you’re thinking though: “Of course fighting bad mesmers is easy when you’re using the Mesmer class to counter with, duh!” Seriously though, I can use a killshot war which is a mechanical nightmare in a vs mesmer matchup and still outplay these guys.

So if I can do it, why can’t you?

Lo

as someone who mains mes u know what to do, others dont.

Either way once to class is brought to balance everything will be restored, just enjoy your OP stage

yup, “Game is updated Restart” Constantly even after restarting it

Azure.8670:

Quaman.9167:

Pure condimancer doesn’t seem that great, but hybrid transfermancer is pretty legit.

I’m confident reaper with sinister/rampager transfer mancer is going to be pvp meta, or atleast top tier

Im pretty confident reaper will be nerfed so hard we wont use it :P

Frost.1503:

Guys the necro now can be delete.
1)We have only transfer condition so if they don’t put condition on us we are died.
2) You are speaking of guardian and Mesmer. Guardian have a lot of remove condition so they put on use fire we send it back and they remove it (their damage isn’t only for burning). Mesmer put on use a lot of condition and become invisible or every dodge reflect projectle (number 4 of dagger), I forgot now they remove condition.
3) We Befoure can win a battle versus a ranger. Try now!!! If the enemy player have a bit of experience (3 days) you can be a Veteran but with the necro you can’T even touch him.
4) Always the people speak of 1vs1 the problem we don’T play 1vs1 but 5vs5 so we are destinate to die. We don’t have any way to escape.
Take the Elementalist he hasn’T a lot of condition to put on his enemy,but just with that 2 or 3 condition he can easily kill a necro.

1) Yes that is true, but how many times over can they condi clear, ur still forcing their use of these abilities which is weakening them specially when everyones a condi, so look at it from more then Just ur own damage.

2) burn Guard does not carry that many condi clears, the proffession may contain alot of them but not a awful lots used, they mostly run glass so currently that isnt even a problem, Mesmers are Overpowered and tbh why compare urself against imbalancement itself.

3) Im playing Signet power necromancer, with 0 Condi clear or transfer yet im destroying players with it, my damage is very good and im easily capable of killing all other proffessions. Might not be Condi no, but learn that not everythings good everytime, the fact Reaper is 100% Damage based should have given you the hint necros are going down Zerker/Power lines and not a Condi line.

4) you only need to escape LOSING team fights, so actually no ur not destined to die and again with necromancers current sustain i can easily sustain the fights i find even with 3 on me the sustain given is kitten high and necromancers can now survive ALOT specially compared to many other power builds being run currently.

Elementalist? Wut? i’ve had no problem killing many elementalists?… and even if i lose i’ve put up a kitten good fight trying to win the brawl, I really dont understand your problem.

Necromancer have great Damage potiental in their Power/Celestrial builds, our Signets are amazing and so are our wells and both are used in multiple viable builds currently run.

Necros are far from dead and have tons of capability, they have great sustain and great damage output, no our condi is wrecking like PU/Condi Mesmers or Burn Guardians but we still have playstyles which are very viable, trying to make out the NEcromancer class is crap is just rubbish.

Saying condi is bad is fine, it is to a extent true, but saying Necromancer as a whole is bad is just not true.

nekretaal.6485:

When the reaper hits and we have no Death Shroud and no ranged power weapon better than scepter, the class is going to be a complete sitting duck to everybody with a ranged weapon and speed boost.

Maybe axe being awful isn’t so bad now, with life blast on every necromancer, but reapers are really going to miss not having a viable skirmishing weapon.

When Reaper comes out and is just nerfed as hard resulting in going back to standard Dagger/Warhorn + Staff you mean? XD

lets face it any specialization designed to do more Damage then any other class in the game is going to be Ruined i give Reaper one patch before we’ll say goodbye to it, great design i mean it looks like ALOT of fun but the QQ thats going to Outbreak across the Specialization will force Anet into a Swift nerf.

on the bright side, everyone will be trying the new Revenant so i guess not as many will see the effects of the nerfs that are income on us, people already QQ on our new sustain, let alone when we get 3 life bars and Even past that 8k Dmging auto attacks in Shroud when it comes (seen by dmg figures written on Wiki)

DeceiverX.8361:

Yes, but I feel like dealing 6.5-8k + 6.5-8k + 13-15k AOE damage every 1.3s is a little bit much, don’t you think? Do realize that this would put necromancers as an easy first or second place DPS in the game via a cleaving auto-attack alone. Putting it simply, the DPS is double that of Lich Form’s.

Just seems a wee bit high o.O

Well mesmers hit for 10k

Eles Burn Tick for utpoo 10k..

Reapers hitting for 8k Dmg isnt really anything to todays meta, so no i dont think it’ll be too strong ,

Can i see Reapers being Hard nerfed and Just becoming Useless, yes i can its pure balance will depend on doing more damage then anything else due to no mobility no fast paced Attacks and being locked behind only being able to pull to you.

Reaper nerfs are inevitable and the likelyhood is u wont find much use in GS after it happens lol… but u never know i guess.