Guild Wars 2

Azzras.8041:

How was GW not an MMO?

Because the only “massively multiplayer” aspects of it were essentially player-lobbies, and in those instances very few, if any, RPG elements took place.

Come on, man, even ANet admits that GW1 wasn’t an MMO. It was a multiplayer RPG with graphical lobbies to gather parties for instances.

Not likin’ how this is great thread is getting pushed down by ignorance regarding this exact same subject. It seems that the complainers would rather stay locked in their own delusions instead of learn some cold hard truths.

Also consider that they “want to give us more content for free than what you’d get with a sub-fee MMO.”

Pretty much Colin’s exact words right there. Makes me pretty excitebike to see what else is coming.

When it’s finished™.

First question: Yes. You can also add them to your guild if you wish.

Second question: Either will work.

Nobody is saying they’re exactly the same. What many of us are saying, myself included, is that they’re no substitute for skill; that a good player in blues or even whites will be a much better person to bring into a dungeon run than some scrub in exotics who zergs, death-runs, and completely ignores support and control.

Tradewind.6913:

He’s a witch, burn him!

I lol’d.

Good post, Xericor. Thanks for running this little experiment. It won’t shut a lot of the complainers up, because most whiners don’t care about those silly things called “facts”, but maybe it’ll put some of the more reasonable minds at ease.

I’ll chime in a bit.

I can go back and do lower-level content, it’ll still be fun, and I’ll still be rewarded almost as well as if I were in a level 80 zone. This gives me a massive amount of content to play.

WvW is a freakin’ blast.

No holy trinity. And for that matter, more action-based combat in general.

The art. The music.

Underwater. A lot of people hate the underwater combat and such, but I freakin’ LOVE underwater environments and combat.

The dungeons are super-challenging. Great for if I really wanna push myself.

No gear treadmill. Gone are the days where I had to farm x dungeon y times before I could finally get to z dungeon. Once I’m max-level, the whole game is open to me.

All in all, there’s so much great about this game.

Debsylvania.7396:

I believe the code you’re referring to is the diminishing return/anti speed clear stuff added a couple of days ago? If so, these issues may turn out to be moot as they are now saying the changes are not working as intended.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Updates/page/16#post190414

This is an interesting bit of insight. I personally haven’t noticed a difference (seriously, if nobody had told me about the anti-farming stuff, I would have never known it was there), but I also wasn’t slaughtering mobs for crafting materials.

Here’s hoping they get this ironed out soon.

You do know that you can get exotics for very little, right? It doesn’t require a ridiculous amount of time like you imply it does. A full set of exotics can be crafted, bought off the TP… or you could buy a set off a vendor for 8g 88s.

nerva.7940:

maybe it’s just me?

This might be more accurate than you think. Really, the classes don’t define the difficulty of this game so much as the skill of the player.

Spawn.7014:

what do you think they will nerf next?
PVE in a nut shell has already been Nerfed.

Farming the same events over and over again and speed-running the first boss of a dungeon over and over isn’t PvE in a nutshell.

baldsh.3896:

Well guardian is the “meatiest” of all the classes

Not really. I’m pretty sure our health is around caster level. We make up for it with virtues, but without those, we’d be kinda dead a lot. Not so much “meaty” as “magically augmented.”

Also, didn’t notice the edit but this

Rizzy.8293:

Guildwars = MMORPG

is completely false. You clearly know nothing about the genre you’re talking about if you think GW1 was an MMO.

Rizzy.8293:

Im sorry but…
Gw2 = MMORPG

And see, therein lies your problem; you have this asinine preconception that all MMO’s have to be the same, and that the only thing that makes an MMO is some progression-based gear treadmill. And that’s like saying the only thing that makes a first-person shooter is prone and weapon customization, or the only thing that makes a fighting game is eight-way run and weapons.

No. The only things that make an MMO are in its name sake.

MMO: Massive Multiplayer Online
RPG: Role Playing Game

That’s all that’s required to make an MMORPG what it is. The genre’s not called an MMOGTLFRPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Gear Treadmill Loot Fest Role Playing Game).

Bruno Sardine.2907:

From 1-80, I’m trying to get as powerful as possible.

That’s you. Most of us bought the game for fun gameplay, not to be “as powerful as possible.” The game was made for fun gameplay instead of the tired out “be as powerful as possible so maybe someday you can be powerful-er” snoozfest.

If you enjoy that, there are games for you. Hell, most MMO’s out there do that, so you have plenty to choose from. Have at it. But asking for a gear treadmill to be instated in a game that was built from day one to not have that is like complaining on the Street Fighter forum about how terrible SFIV is because it doesn’t have weapons and eight-way run.

Lysidian.4653:

Not at all. I typically start with the escort to penetant, defend, move to the next outpost, defend, move to the next and defend, defend melandru, go do grenth or arah if they are active. By the time I am halfway through with the second defend, the loot has already dropped off. Only takes one more DE of anything after the second defend and the karma is dropping off. Bad design or combating bots. Take your pick. But thats just my experience.

That’s very odd, considering I do the same thing in several areas of the game and the karma gain stays the same the whole time.

Hyperbole.

/sigh

Rizzy.8293:

DusK.3849:

If your money is dropping that far from dungeons, stop sucking. If your money is dropping that fast from waypointing, stop doing it so much.

Stop blaming the game for your inability to play it effectively.

Right… so I dont play it effectively, how did I get full exotic gear?
If I don’t know how to play Oo?

And I’d still like to know what these games are that you played that don’t reward players with compensation or loot.

Fighting games don’t. Most first-person shooters don’t. Team Fortress 2, a game that was a clear inspiration for this game especially for PvP, drops loot but it’s not more powerful than the starter weapons. Many hack-and-slash games have a sort of power plateau similar to this one. Many RPGs have a max level cap and a power plateau, even if they’re single-player.

Seriously, how do you not understand how asinine the suggestion is that “zomg more pwerful l00tz” is the only thing that can make a video game?

If your money is dropping that far from dungeons, stop sucking. If your money is dropping that fast from waypointing, stop doing it so much.

Stop blaming the game for your inability to play it effectively.

Lysidian.4653:

DusK.3849:

The only reason people are complaining is because ANet basically turned off free karma fountains. That really is what it boiled down to.

Credible until this part, if you are not going to bother reading the thread, why post?

I did read it. I came up on this part:

Now throw in the diminishing returns

And knew you were talking about same-event farming, because that doesn’t happen to people that do different DE’s as they play the game. So yes, I’m correct; you’re complaining that ArenaNet turned off a low-risk/low-effort, high reward karma fountain. Spread out, do different events, find different things to do instead of sitting in one spot doing the same event over and over, and those diminishing returns will disappear.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Buff legendary items and dungeon gear. If you want us to go after it and make it take awhile to get it, don’t make it as good (or worse than) items we can get through crafting at a fraction of the cost/time it takes to acquire those materials.

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

That was posted months before the game released.

Pretty sure that’s a bug.

Lysidian.4653:

Just curious, not attacking you or anything, but why is your play time choices ok, and mine are not?

Because the kinds of farming that they nerfed were low-risk/low-effort and high reward until they did something about it.

The only reason people are complaining is because ANet basically turned off free karma fountains. That really is what it boiled down to.

Tradewind.6913:

I said it hasn’t affected me, that’s not the same as I have not encountered it. The difference is that I just don’t care all that much. I make my gold by other means and fill my time with activities that don’t involve farming for inordinate amounts of time. Leveling alts, hopping between dragon spawns, playing the trading post etc.

ZOMG U don’t farm?! But dat’s teh only way to play a MMO!!!!

I haven’t been touched by the anti-farm stuff either. I love how I can just go out on some longkitten romp from one side of a map to the other (adventuring? Like… an adventure game? What?!) doing DE’s as I go, and make more money and karma than the “hardcores” sitting at Pentinent for 10+ attack events in a row.

This game is freakin’ wonderful.

I noticed I didn’t see a difference in in-game attitude, though. How interesting.

“Because they’re all a bunch of casuals that don’t know that the only way to get teh uber leetz is to sit at Pentinent all day, hurr durr.”

And you’re in no position to criticize Tradewind, Khaldar. You’re on a forum of a game you clearly bought knowing nothing about and insisting that ArenaNet should change their philosophy on the drop of a hat because you WoWites can’t grasp a game without farming. A person who enjoys the game is definitely more in-place on said game’s forum than someone coming here to complain about wanting to change the very ideas that game was founded on.

RShara.3265:

Why does there need to be something that is done only after you hit max level?

Because all MMO’s are about loot and numbers going up and gear treadmills, just like all first-person shooters are about laying prone in the grass waiting for people to walk by, and all fighting games are about juggling opponents in a 3D space with the risk of ring-outs.

Rizzy.8293:

Oh you mean like farming for resources, killing mobs to get crafting mats to sell.

That boring grind?

Right

You go enjoy that boring monotonous thing then.

Ah, I love this. You complain about how ArenaNet nerfed grind and monotonous farming by putting in anti-farming features, then have the gall to claim that spreading out, exploring, and doing different DE’s and such is somehow “boring monotonous grind.”

You’ve truly jumped the shark.

I don’t think anything will be announced until next month to be honest.

Rizzy.8293:

Whatever anyone wants it to be.

You’re forgetting that your WoW ripoff “numbers going up is the only worthwhile reward” vision completely contradicts ANet’s vision and is the reason many of us don’t play those other MMO’s.

Or you do know, and want them to change anyway because you’re hoping that ANet will turn a 180 on everything they’ve said and listen to your self-entitled whining so you can have WoW without the sub fee.

Rizzy.8293:

Wrong?
In what aspect dusk?

That mere fact that you don’t know of any other type of reward than an increase in numbers proves that it’s a concept that completely goes over your head. Even more so, considering the countless times it’s been explained to you.

Rabbisaurus.1263:

according to what i’ve read on the net, they dont restore the lost gold.

You must have skipped my post then, because I know from experience that this is wrong.

Dgenerate.1948:

rewarding game.

The problem is, despite your belief otherwise, there’s more than one thing that makes a game rewarding. And because a lot of WoWites drilled it into their head that the only worthwhile reward that could ever exist in an MMO is “your numbers go up”, the boards are filled with people complaining about how Street Fighter IV doesn’t have eight way ru- I mean, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have gear treadmills or progression raiding post-80.

If this is what I think it is, you’ll see your gold come back eventually. ANet keeps a record of every TP transaction.

Blecks.8271:

I got the same problem atm. In cof runs i cant even afford the repair costs of the run anymore.

The problem is that you’re repairing a lot, which comes from a problem of dying, which comes from a problem of not being good at this game.

I’d suggest taking care of the problem at its source instead of moving up the ladder and claiming there’s a problem there.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2

Inb4 “Hurr durr, that’s only a random sample of > 500 players, there’s no way that could present an accurate projection of overall approval of this game”

Rizzy.8293:

DusK.3849:

So humor the complaints a little more. Five more days, most of them will be gone anyway.

Yup and then in 5 more days you’ll be sitting outside in a dungeon your Yaks Bend server going LFG for 2 hours with no replying to you.

If that’s not the case 5 days from now, please come back to these forums so you can read a post from me that basically boils down to “LOL you were so freakin’ wrong, and I knew you would be.”

Dgenerate.1948:

Five more days, most of them will be gone anyway.

And you will likely see a steady decline in numbers over the next couple of months if Anet doesn’t keep their playerbase happy.

What you fail to realize is that their playerbase is happy, because a vast majority of their playerbase consists of people that bought the game knowing what it was.

The whiners are a vocal minority who came to GW2 thinking it would be WoW without the sub fee, only to be shocked that an MMO can be different too.

Reihert.1509:

MMOs isnt about grind/gear/competition.

It is to some people. Fortunately, there are games for them. And it would be beneficial to everyone involved if they just go play those games instead of trying to turn this one into that stuff. Then they’d be getting their rocks off on their tank/heal-dps combat, gear treadmills, and carrot-chasing, and we’d be having fun playing a game that was developed from the ground up to not be that.

What most of the complainers are whining about are, of course, opinionated concerns. And they have a right to not like this game; it clearly doesn’t satisfy whatever they’re looking for in a game. But where they get it wrong is that somehow coming here and complaining that this game doesn’t rip x feature off of WoW or they don’t like y feature, things that were built into this game from day one, will somehow make a difference other than them looking like a bunch of self-entitled crybabies. The things they want, like a return to tank/heal/dps, easy dungeons, and gear treadmills and progression-based post-80 content, those were intended to be done away with from the start. And the things they dislike about the game, such as a more “actiony” feel to combat… these things were decided from day one to be cornerstones of the title.

What these people are asking for, what they’re whining about… it’s like coming to the Quake Live forums after playing nothing but CoD and whining that it doesn’t have slow gameplay, low kill times, prone, and weapon customization. It’s like playing nothing but SoulCalibur games, and then going onto Capcom Unity’s Street Fighter forums and whining about how terrible SFIV is because it doesn’t have weapons and eight-way run.

And really, it’s not going to matter. ArenaNet’s not going to look at these whiners, who really are a minority of GW2 players, and decide to change everything that this game was intended to be just to appease them, because that would completely screw everyone who bought the game for what it is. And ANet, well, they’re just not like that.

So humor the complaints a little more. Five more days, most of them will be gone anyway.

Our low health is our crutch. We usually make up for it with some good toughness and heavy armor, but what Ruggy said is admittedly a viable tactic against us Guardians; conditions dgaf about armor, so loading us up on them constantly, even if we have condition removal, will completely mess us up.

Rizzy.8293:

OOHH Okay, i get it.
If it’s fun for you, it has to be fun for other people too right?
Because lets face it because you’re the leading authority on the subject matter of fun.

The value of fun is determined by you.
Clearly theres something wrong with the people whose expectations of fun differs from yours, clearly.

Munchkin is more fun at the moment than PVE GW2

Oh, okay, I get it.
If you think ideas that the game were founded on are bad, even if most players don’t, then clearly they should be changed, right?
Because let’s face it, you’re the leading authority on what makes GW2 what it is.

What this game should be is determined by you.
Clearly there’s something wrong with the people who think that a game should stick to its design philosophies instead of turning a 180 and spitting in the face of the people that actually knew what kind of game they were buying.

Dgenerate.1948:

People play MMO’s for LOOT.

Just because you do doesn’t mean we all do.

Clem

Thanks, but I’m going to let logic prevail and not waste my time trying it.

That’s not letting logic prevail, that’s letting closed-minded preconceptions prevail.

When GW2 was selling significantly faster than ANet anticipated, they turned off first-party digital sales, the very sales that make them the most money, so that people who had already purchased the game wouldn’t have to deal with unbearable network lag and server instability and would be able to enjoy the game.

Think about that for a while.

metaverse.6821:

Mastermind.3169:

DusK.3849, everything you just said there would make SWTOR a success too.. It just isnt in reality. GW2 is like a carbon-copy of Rift, but with less choices and no endgame. The thing that makes GW2 special is its combatsystem, a direct copy of one of the later versions of Super Mario Bros, Lego Star Wars or Zelda. Which is cool, for a while..

Look at the user reviews of SWTOR vs the ones for GW2 and you’ll see the difference there.

Don’t do that. He wants to stay in this bizzaro fantasy-land where most GW2 players actually hate the game.

I also LOL’d quite a bit at the “Super Mario Bros, Lego Star Wars, or Zelda” bit.

Give us a rematch, we’ll see where it goes.

Oxe.6142:

What did this have to do with the Trading Post and real money?

From what I understand, it’s some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about how nerfing farming is supposed to lead to more cash being funneled into the gem store or something.

BobbyStein.2315:

Maximus Delion.8719:

Today’s patch notes say that missing female VO lines were restored. I’m assuming the males are still on the way.

Is anyone noticing a problem with missing male lines?

I did. That NPC that talks to you right after beating the giant ice wurm in the Norn storyline, can’t remember his name, but he was missing a couple lines.

EDIT: This was before the patch, though.

Death Aggro

B/c only a small fanboy base is calling this game a success.

And the 2 million copies sold. And nearly every reviewer, professional or not. But what do they know; anyone that doesn’t want this game to be a carbon-copy of that other game is clearly a fanboy and doesn’t understand that it’s carbon-copies of that other game, like SWTOR, that go on to be succe- oh wait.

I could see gamepad with this game being a viable option. Don’t knock it till you try it.