Guild Wars 2

Apos

Nah, they just need to find a way to make the game reward changing areas.

I agree. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to have skipped over my suggestion because I’m a “white knight” who might have an idea that could do what all the doomsayers don’t want to happen: Make the game better.

Also, no transaction’s “micro” whenever NCSoft is involved. Sad but true.

I actually had a nifty idea for more WvW. Basically, complete the hexagon. Make three more maps, each between the Borderlands maps, and all of those maps would involve one server facing off against another server, depending on what position that map is between the Borderlands. So between Yak’s Bend Borderlands and Anvil Rock’s Borderlands, there would be an additional map for those two servers to duke it out, maybe for some bonus to their server in the rest of WvW. Three more maps get created, each only allowing participation from two of the three battling servers, so the WvW playerbase spreads enough to lower the queues, but not enough to make every map feel deserted.

I find it hilarious that this thread, which makes a case for high player populations, is directly above a post complaining about low player populations.

Have you tried other maps? Many people queue up for EB while seemingly forgetting that the Borderlands are there. I’ve never had a single queue wait for WvW thanks to the Borderlands, and can usually get into EB after a while of playing in a Borderlands map instead.

You don’t have to wish me luck, I’ve already had great success with it. But hey, thanks anyway!

Durzlla.6295:

There needs to be some kind of incintive and finacial reward to counter the costs.

It’s called sell the stuff you get because gear at your level drops with enough frequency to actually walk away with more money than when you started while helping lower-level players.

I help lower level guildies all the time. I love it. Out of a good session, the blues and greens I get overpay for my WP costs, and I make some fat bank off of the lower tier mats on the TP.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

Ever play GW1? Man the classes and builds put GW2 to shame. GW2 is more like mmo lite.

I played GW1 constantly from May 2005 onwards. I honestly like GW2’s professions better. GW1 consisted mainly of “If you’re not running Dragon Slash or Discordway, you lose.” That’s nowhere near “putting GW2 profs to shame”.

I fight underwater bosses.

Knuckledust.5621:

This has been said over and over and over and over again, I don’t know why you made this topic. There is no true tips on how to make money, you are just telling people to do the obvious.

It apparently isn’t obvious if they blame the game daily for their incapability to do pretty much everything on this list, instead going “Ah mai gawd, bad game design”.

Porky.5021:

You guys who like burgers keep coming to the chinese restaurant complaing you want burgers. Wong’s is right next to a Burger Barn for god’s sake. Go there. Quit telling Wong he needs to server burgers.

This.

I, for one, could never go back to tank/heal/dps gameplay. Watching paint dry seems more interesting than that after GW2’s combat.

Nobody’s pretending bots are a good thing.

But nobody in their right mind would call farming fun, or the opposition to it “bad game design.”

Maybe because people in your server don’t like playing dungeons? I know I’m staying away from ’em for now, what with the bugs the most recent update put in ’em and all.

Apos

The forum community is a sample of the overall community, within an error margin, but not much away from the real deal.

Saying that whoever doesn’t post on the forums is happy is equally biased and foolish.

Having one QQ thread per day means nothing. When your forums are flooded with those, then you do have some problems going on.

Stop being blind if you don’t mind. It’s easy to try to prove something wrong by devaluing it. Why don’t you try counter-arguing those “whiners” instead? Some of them have some solid arguments. Can you negate them without saying that “their opinion doesn’t matter”?

Wrong again. Most of a game’s community enjoying a game are doing just that; enjoying the game. The others will most likely be here insisting that, because the game doesn’t match up to what they consider fun (which, more often than not, is composed of ideas that are mutually exclusive to what most of the game’s community are having fun with in-game), that somehow the game’s broken or bad. Therefore, the whiner:praiser ratio is going to be significantly higher on the forum.

Don’t believe me? Go to any map in the game, even Orr, and ask everyone if they’re enjoying the game. The difference between their words and the general feel of the forums is night and day.

As for your last part, I agree with ArenaNet: farming is low-risk/low-effort, high reward. If you’re getting more from farming that players would get playing the game normally, something’s not right. I don’t agree with their methodology in some cases, but I do agree with the new dungeon system of 60 tokens per new chain clear/20 per repeated chain clear, because it eliminates players trying to loophole the system and get more rewards from the game than those of us who are just playing the game.

These farmers are asking for a handout. Kudos to ANet for going the other way with it.

Apos.5184:

The amount of threads of people disatisfied with the DR system and the supportive replies are enough a proof.

A forum community is not representative of the game’s community as a whole. Therefore, the whining threads are proof of nothing other than a select few’s insistence on complaining rampantly.

It felt more populated in BWE’s for the same reason it felt more populated on release than it does now; everyone was in the starting zones.

We’re a month in. The players are spread out. It doesn’t change the fact that your server still has a high population.

Gandara’s still high population.

I’ve heard a lot of complaining about how farming has been nerfed. Personally, I could care less, as I don’t farm. I find it boring (and, as an aside, I find it hilarious that people who actually think something as boring as farming would actually be fun seem to have the most complaints about GW2 in general), so I don’t do it, and therefore, I don’t get punished by the anti-farm code. I would have never even known it was there if I didn’t read the forum.

But I thought that what would be a great step forward is, especially considering the high karma costs of many things in the game, a system to reward players for doing different DE’s instead of sticking to one or two (lookin’ at you, Pentinent zergers).

How it would work:

Basically, the system I’m suggesting would cause karma rewards to increase for doing a different dynamic event than, let’s say, the previous five they’ve participated in, while decreasing that karma reward increase whenever they repeat one of those dynamic events. It would work as a multiplier, like this.

1. Complete a dynamic event: You get your full experience, karma, and coin. You’re also rewarded with a DE reward multiplier buff of 1.1×.
2. Complete a different dynamic event. You get 1.1x times as much experience, karma, and coin as you normally would for that dynamic event. The DE reward multiplier buff goes up to 1.2×.
3. This repeats until it reaches a cap, maybe 1.5×. At this point, doing two different DE’s would yield as much experience, karma, and coin as doing three does now.
4. A player does one of their previous five DE’s over. They get as much exp, karma, and coin as their buff would allow them to yield, but afterward, it drops by 0.2×. So if a player’s at 1.5x and repeats one of their previous 5 DE’s, it drops to 1.3x after they are rewarded.

With this system, players who explore and do different content are rewarded for doing so, more than what a farming player would be able to get.

Derpinator

I bought it based on the “Manifesto” and what was delivered was nothing like what was contained therein. Ok it was “like” the Manifesto. Just like phlegm is “like” oysters. Same basic consistency, but not the same thing at all.

I strongly disagree, and could type up a long post about how the Manifesto was realized in full with this game, but you strike me as one of those “anti-fanboys”. You know the guys; the ones who have literally nothing better to do with their time than write pages of posts about how much they hate a game on its own forum, and will believe, despite any evidence to the contrary being presented, literally anything that shines the game in a bad light. So why waste my time?

But that’s not the point of this thread. This thread is about gameplay aspects that punish players to such extremes that, while don’t appeal to a vast majority of players, do appeal to “zomg im so uber hardcore xxx” players. This thread is about things we knew wouldn’t be in this game for three years. So this thread isn’t about Guild Wars 2, and therefore, doesn’t belong in a general discussion forum about the game.

/thread

I have a hard time sympathizing with people that play a game solely to overcompensate for some other shortcoming in their life instead of, ya know, fun.

Bai!

Strifer.3507:

Like what symke said, why can’t we have both FUN and GEAR, instead of being forced to choose one or the other like what everyone here seems to think?

Because:

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Simply put you have your FUN, and you have your GEAR. The fact that it doesn’t give you more superpowers doesn’t mean it’s not there.

The real question is: Why do people insist on asking questions that have been answered over and over again?

Regretting my forgetfulness. I left my laptop cable at home, so I’m stuck at my in-laws’ house without GW2.

I don’t miss them either. Good for you if you like that stuff, but we all knew it wasn’t gonna be in this game. At least those of us who opted to, you know, learn about the game we were buying, anyway.

Best: Hard choice (there is so much good in this game it’s ridiculous), but if I gotta choose, I’d say the combat. I loooove GW2’s combat. A nice split between action combat and traditional MMO combat, minus the stupid tank/heal/DPS stuff.

Worst: Dungeon rewards feel pretty grindy and require what is (imo) an unnecessary amount of clears to achieve, even with the new 60 token per first chain clear per day system.

Rizzy.8293:

If you’ve designed a product without the consumer in mind then you’re a bad designer.

And I guess you’re going to insist they did exactly that because the game doesn’t appeal solely to people like you, right?

Screw what the rest of us who actually knew what we were buying think. If it don’t please the Rizzmaster, it don’t please nobody.

bwillb.2165:

That’s great and all, but innovation is not what wins GOTY usually. What usually wins is either a quality product or a popular product, depending on who is rating it.

GW2 is a quality product and a popular product. High reviews around the board, both professional and otherwise, and 2 million copies sold within the first couple of weeks. To say that GW2 isn’t “a quality product or a popular product” would be arguing against verifiable fact at this point. So it’s a good thing you haven’t done that.

Greyfeld.7104:

Story*, achievements, skins, pets, minis, collectables, rare crafting materials, etc etc.

There are literally dozens of ways you can reward players for their effort, without implementing a gear treadmill. Many of them require the developers to create diversions that don’t involve killing stuff and looting the corpse, so it’s hard to be more specific until Anet actually moves beyond fixing bugs and making sure combat works properly.

*I believe story to be the ultimate form of progression in any game, where your actions influence the world around you. Unfortunately, story in MMOs is finite and slow in development. Most companies seem content with pumping out new story at a maximum of 1-2 times per year.

Now all that stuff is definitely something I could get behind.

Though I also think this is stuff that’s on ANet’s plate anyway.

nerva

progression was never fun to me. it was always a chore so i could get to the “real” thing. i enjoy looking forward to aesthetic upgrades. becoming more powerful through gearing stinks. this is probably just me….

It’s not. The whole “you can’t do this dungeon/raid/whatever unless your armor gives you x amount of superpowers” crap is pretty stupid. I honestly don’t see why anyone would like it.

Greyfeld.7104:

But here’s the problem: You read “progression” and in your mind, you substitute it with “gear treadmill from hell,” without stopping to consider that I may not be specifically about gear grinding.

Well then by all means, make a suggestion.

Cromx.3941:

this is about the lousiest game I have played. Anet itself is a soulless company.

He says as he goes back to games made by developers that charge him $15 a month while lying to him about how that money pays for the development of new content and the upkeep of servers.

You know, you’ve posted a good three pages worth about this “soulless company.” In largely mangled grammar, I might add. You ever think that might have been time better spent?

But you’re not insisting that RPGs have progression, because you’re right; they do.

No, what you’re trying to claim is that every RPG has limitless progression and an endgame, and both are, in cases beyond counting, false.

The progression aspect is there between 1-80. Then it caps off. Many RPGs do this. There doesn’t need to be some gear treadmill or other such crap to qualify it as an RPG.

Mounts in WoW made exploration boring. Flying mounts even more so. I’m glad this game does away with ’em.

Funny thing about WoW players; the user score for their oh-so-great game on the same website is a good 3+ points below GW2’s. Ditto for the expansions, but man, dat Cata score sure makes me giggle.

Rosexephon.9321:

No way to inspect other players

Likely intentional, as it would create arbitrary barriers between players, as well as between players and content. Remember Gearscore? That’s the kind of crap inspecting would bring to the table, it would lead to some stupid standard like “LF2M Arah Exp, must be wearing full exotics”.

Rosexephon.9321:

no armory

I wasn’t aware WoW had this on release. Oh wait, it didn’t. Clearly that game wasn’t ready to be released.

Rosexephon.9321:

no dungeon finder

Not only is this another funny thing you’re bringing up forgetting that WoW also didn’t have this until, what was it, WotLK, but is also intended. Dungeons in this game are hard. Using a dungeon finder in this game would put good players in bad groups and just lessen the overall experience. Not to mention how many bads would come in these forums after getting steamrolled in a dungeon they couldn’t do to blame the game for their shortcomings. We get enough of that already, let’s not create something that will cause that to happen even more.

Rosexephon.9321:

not enough guild control

Elaborate, because right now, there is a very robust guild system in the game.

Rosexephon.9321:

I’m just bored and feels like I’m playing not a 100% finished game. Not saying gw2 is swtor but it’s been a month, and I’m bored! I’ve done WvW,Dungeons, hit 400 crafting, hit 80, made 4 alts. And maybe i just went too it too fast but Arenanet had to know that people would do this.

They did. And you got your money’s worth for now if you did all that. Take a break maybe?

Rosexephon.9321:

Are they ignoring the hardcore players?

Not all of them, just the ones that think a game should revolve around “I need higher numbers forever”. And rightfully so, because implementation of such gear treadmills would be a massive 180 for ArenaNet’s game design philosophy and a massive slap in the face to those of us who, unlike most WoW players, actually knew what kind of game we were buying.

Rosexephon.9321:

Should we just go back to WoW?

Nothing’s stopping you. Seriously, there is literally no reason for you not to do exactly that if you’d rather play that game.

Rosexephon.9321:

Will there be patches/content updates.

More than what you’d get in a sub-fee MMORPG, according to Colin.

Rosexephon.9321:

Will a hardcore pve system be implicated?

There already is one. The fact that it’s not a gear treadmill a la WoW doesn’t make it any less hardcore.

ounkeo.9138:

You just need to ask yourself

1. what is an RPG.
2. what is an MMO*RPG*

If you can answer that, you will see why “progression” is intrinsic to the RPG genre. It’s not wrong to expect progression and customisation and personalisation and a storied world in which to play in.

There are already genre that cater to people who want to play with other people who don’t care about a perpetual world and your relation to it; games where players don’t care about stats and weapons and armor and looks – it’s called FPS (Modern Warfare etc…)

progression (and its linked attributes) is a major part of this genre. You wouldn’t label a biography of Bill Clinton as Sci-Fi would you? Likewise, if you take out the RPG elements of an MMORPG, it’s not an MMORPG is it?

An RPG can have a power cap. You’re making it sound like every single person starts out at level 80 touting exotics straight out of character creation.

Gryz.8376:

DusK.3849:

So a game company that developed and sold over 4 million copies of a well-received game “doesn’t know their stuff”?

I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of those extra customers (e.g. not the old GW1-players) came to the game because of the screenshots of the world, the stories about the exploration and the jump puzzles, etc. I know I did. After 4 weeks, only 30% of players has queued up for PvP. They must be here for PvE first.

You do realize I was talking about GW1 when I said that, right? Oh, of course you don’t.

Gryz.8376:

Gameplay at level-80 I just don’t understand. I don’t see how it can retain the majority of those 4 million players, and make sure they buy stuff in the cash-shop, or buy future expansions.

It’s called basing your gameplay on fun instead of boring gear treadmills which -and you might not believe this, but it’s true- can ward off customers like myself. I stopped playing WoW before Cata because I realized that the “endgame” consists solely of grinding for extra stats waiting for Blizzard to unlock the next part of the most recent expansion. That’s it. GW2 offers so much more than that it’s ridiculous.

Gryz.8376:

I was talking about MMOs in general. Seen Tera ? Beautiful world. The leveling was good, although a bit repetitive. Great dungeons too. But endgame was completely messed up. Not fun. More a lottery than a game (esp enchanting). Droves of players left. How is that possible ? Were the people in charge at Enmasse so blind ? So stupid ? You could see it coming from afar. I know for sure I would have come up with a better system for endgame than they did, make more customers happy, and get more subscription-money. But they couldn’t. I was flabbergasted.

Next you’re gonna tell me how great Diablo 3 is ? That game sold lots of copies. Maybe ArenaNet should hire Jay Wilson ? Jay is a veteran. And a huge name in the industry. GW2 customers will be ecstatic for sure ! “Kitten that kitten” !

Or they could, ya know, consist of a team that made a game where a lot of its player base stuck around for over half a decade. You know, that game I was talking about in my previous post.

The bottom line is that ArenaNet makes good games. They’re proved it with GW1. Calling them “inexperienced” after the success of that game is probably one of the most ridiculous things a person could say on this forum.

Tradewind.6913:

Why can’t “fun” be a goal?

“A reward other than higher numbers? Preposterous!” said no self-respecting gamer ever.

And then, a Mike Lewis out of nowhere…

Seriously, these criticisms are valid, but before you go “Henny Penny, the sky is falling”, might I suggest you take a deep breath, relax, and then proceed to hold ANet to their word.

So a game company that developed and sold over 4 million copies of a well-received game “doesn’t know their stuff”?

Here’s hoping they fix this soon. I’m dodging dungeons for now until they do.

Yeah, I’ve been running into a low of people I recognize from before as well.

I think one of the things about WoW is that the game itself tended to herd everyone into one section of the game. When BC released, everything before it was a ghost town. When WotLK released, everything in vanilla and BC was a ghost town. When Cata released, well, you get the idea.

GW2 doesn’t do this, and as much as people try to cling to their former “endgame” mentalities and stick to one area (Orr), you’ll find that the rest of us that actually know how this game works spread out and doing content all over the game world.

If you ever want that “community” feel, I’d suggest Lion’s Arch, though in many servers, you’re likely to get stuck in an Overflow for a bit before you can end up on your server.

MystiQ.9648:

Lutinz.6915:

Its worth pointing out there are probably 6 dragons in total.

And how is this likely?

Zhaitan, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, Primordus, Bubbles… I don’t think a 6th is entirely out of the question.

No self-respecting gamer cares about getting higher numbers more than he/she cares about gameplay. Not a single one. Bring this “crazy” concept of numbers taking a backseat to fun gameplay to the MMORPG genre and, well, you get the GW2 forums.

No, MMORPGs can stand on their own with gameplay. It’s just that no other major MMORPG has tried to go that route until now, not a single one, so it’s kind of a culture shock for all the people who go into a game looking for an infinite number increase.

While they’re chasing carrots, we’re eating ’em. I like that.

So lemme get this straight: You’d rather see the price of gems shoot through the roof, to the point where the gem store is completely inaccessible to all but the most time-rich non-MT players?

Sorry, but the rest of us who don’t have deep pockets nor all the time in the world to devote to farming would rather not see that.

Why are so many people still using this stupid “endgame” phrase? Traditional endgame is terrible, and I’m glad GW2 does away with it. This idea that the only fun stuff is at the end and everything else is filler until you’re max level is one of the most absurd ideas to ever rear it’s ugly head in gaming.

“But this game would be so good if it had a way to constantly increase your stats post-max level like in WoW…”

That crap sucked. That’s why this game is different.

“…or if there was some way to get better gear than other players in sPvP by playing longer…”

No, that crap also sucks. That’s another reason this game is different.

“…and in other games I can farm…”

Farming sucks, and it draws players away from content. It funnels players to specific content instead of spreading them out across the game. You wanna see how well funneling players to specific content works? Take a look at pretty much any area in WoW that’s not the main quest hub for the most recent expansion. Dead as dead gets.

Everything you people keep asking for sucks. That’s why Guild Wars 2 was created; so the rest of us who care about gameplay and don’t need some infinite climb in numbers “endgame” to satiate a short-man complex can finally have an MMORPG that’s actually worth playing.

Sialor.7396:

Void.4205:

I am wondering something very simple. What is the thinking behind the anti-farm code in GW2? I would expect the bugs to be a bigger issue now.

The people fixing the bugs and the people developing the anti-farm code are not necessarily the same group

This. Game development doesn’t involve every single software engineer and designer working solely on one aspect of the game. It’s extremely inefficient.

ounkeo.9138:

meanignless negativity? Perhaps you haven’t been on other game forums but a lot of the “negativity” you read here are very valid.

A lot of it boils down to complaining that this game isn’t enough like x game, or how some people don’t like the otherwise largely-enjoyable features that make this game different from other MMORPG’s, or the absence of certain things that (also imo, but likewise also in the opinion of most who bought this game) make other MMORPGs suck. A lot of people in here are basically spewing stuff that’s equally as ignorant as saying that Street Fighter IV will never be good as long as it’s not a 3D fighter like Tekken. Those complaints are, therefore, far from valid.

ounkeo.9138:

You basically just told Anet to not fix bugs, broken events, badly tuned encounters, characters losing gold and items etc.

No, he told ArenaNet to not change GW2 into something that’s not GW2. People who knew what they were buying don’t want a traditional (and extremely stupid, imo) cookie-cutter MMORPG gear treadmill endgame, they don’t want the time-rich to have some statistical advantage over the time-poor that would allow them to beat players better than themselves simply because they played the game longer. And they definitely don’t want that God-awful tank/heal/dps combat.

ounkeo.9138:

GG, just because you like something doesn’t mean you should will yourself to be so blatantly blind.

And just because you don’t like key features that make a game what it is doesn’t mean you should change what the rest of us bought said game for. And yes, I read through your post history, and you had the audacity to do exactly that. It’s rather selfish. There are enough games for you to play to get your carrot-chasing rocks off. Leave ours alone.

Since the update, any time I join a party, all of the party members:

1. Don’t show up on the map unless I’m within range of when they actually render on my screen
2. Don’t have a portrait unless I’m within range of when they actually render on my screen
3. Display as a “Level 0 None” unless I’m within range of when they actually render on my screen

When they finally do render on my screen, everything’s normal until they leave rendering distance, at which point their blue dot disappears from my map, and their portrait, level, and profession all reset to a black silhouette and “Level 0 None”.

Oh God, this is the best thread. XD

I saw someone in chat named Treesus Christ one time. Turned out to be an Asura. Missed golden opportunity right there.

Well then sorry, but if you’re using them and still dying, while plenty of other people are having no issues whatsoever, I think the problem’s between the keyboard and the chair.

RebelYell.7132:

I know dodge gives invulnerability and that many professions have an ability (always on a non-trivial cooldown) that reflects or nullifies projectiles. That doesn’t mean I find them to be interesting or challenging from a tactical standpoint.

So wait wait wait. You refuse to use them because they’re not “interesting or challenging from a tactical standpoint”, and then complain about dying?

Seriously, this can’t be real. You gotta be trolling.

So, ArenaNet removed your method of grinding for a certain mat, and as a result, the game now has more grind?