Guild Wars 2

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Dustfinger.9510:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

-Centaurs are just outside Divinity’s Reach because zones don’t always change with the
time. If anet removed all the centaurs there then new players would have nothing to
do. Lets keep in mind there’s a certain gameplay-story segration here.

A-net did say in interview that the centaur are not defeated. The war continues to go back and forth. Still, all in all humans are a strong power in the world.

I never claimed they are defeated, I just believe that they shouldn’t be just outside the gates of Divinity’s Reach anymore (lorewise). But I understand they are there for gameplay’s sake.

When a-net said that the war goes back and forth it means that the centaur get driven back as we saw but they also still drive the humans back. it goes back and forth. So lorewise, we don’t know that they are on the way to losing. They simply lost a big battle. But they always come back. that’s why there is events like the seraph and the centaur continually taking and retaking key points like bridges. So the story plays out one point in time where they are driven back. the in game world shows them continually being driven back and them regrouping and coming back. A-net confirmed that the war goes back and forth.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

In case people have forgotten Scarlet Briar destroyed/level most of the infrastructure of Lion’s Arch. The Lionguard owe their allegiance not to Lion’s Arch from where it got its name from but to the Crown of Kryta. As in the Lionguard are the standard soldiers of the modern Krytan military – with the Seraph, The Shining Blade and the Ministry Guards on top.

And now since the Captain’s Council is now not able to finance their wages …. . Only the Crown has the monies to pay their wages and supply them – all thanks to Scarlet Briar.

As for the Asura Gates, while the Asura are due they fees etc. The nations of Tyria cannot allow free and unlimited use of them. Think about it – criminals/bandits could use the Asura Gates to escape the law.

And so claiming neutrality and allowing free and unlimited use just cannot happen and thus cannot be canon or remain as such. The Asuran would of course see the sense of this and agree that the use of their Gates be within the direct control of the Regional governments of the day, since all cherish their own sovereignty and security & safety of their respective citizens.

So we should expect a swift invasion by Kryta in the near future?

Except the other nations that do have a vested interest in LA would probab;ly have something to say about that.

Lionsgaurd are the protectors of LA and to a lesser extent Tyria. They have no current specific ties to Kryta. Any other nation with an interest in keeping LA free might also see the wisdom in helping to fund them.

“The Lionguard is a military group that once acted as the defenders of Kryta. Their power was usurped 250 years ago by the White Mantle. Since the end of the War in Kryta, they were then mostly replaced by the Seraph. Though their role is now less official, they still act as protectors to the people of Lion’s Arch, and to a lesser extent, Tyria. They can be seen as the defenders of the merchants of Lion’s Arch, and are a major authority in the pirate-riddled town. Magnus the Bloody Handed is head of the Lionguard and an enforcer of authority in the city of Lion’s Arch.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lionguard

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Zaxares.5419:

Lion’s Arch is not officially part of Kryta, however. It is an independent city state. Back during GW1, it was (and it was even the seat of Krytan royalty), but following Zhaitan’s rise and the destruction of the old Lion’s Arch, it was repopulated by people who held no loyalty to Kryta.

Nicholas is right about one thing though. Control of Lion’s Arch is important insofar as it is a central transit hub for trade and travellers. However, the move of the Asura gates to Vigil Keep proves that the Asura can quickly move this hub to a different location if needed. As such, Lion’s Arch itself is mostly irrelevant apart from its role as a port (which is admittedly not a minor thing). If Kryta were to take over Lion’s Arch, I suspect that traders would just move to a new central trading hub (if Krytan taxes on trade proved unfavorable), and that new location would end up being the new “melting pot” city. (I vote for the Labyrinthine Cliffs! )

Seriously? LA is NOT an independent state to the point that is a separate country in its own right. Read my recent posts and more importantly read the official wiki.

Also the operation and use of the Asura Gates is not governed by the Asurans. The use of the Gates for private and commercial use would depend on the rules and regulations of that country while being operationally governed by the city council on a local level. The Crown would not disrupt legal commercial activity unless it impedes the security of Kryta.

From the official wiki:

“Lion’s Arch owed no allegiance to any race or nation, but stood on its own – and did so by virtue of its active navy, its financial strength, and the intelligence and cunning of its leaders.”

“a settlement formed that owed no allegiance to Kryta.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lions_Arch

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Your opinion assumes that Lion’s Arch is international territory. It is not. It is a domestic situation and although foreign interests have current commercial interest within Lion’s Arch their governments do NOT have political jurisdiction.

My opinion does not assume that LA is international territory. it simply acknowleges the possibility that other nations have a vested interest in LA’s affairs. meaning that the affairs of LA may well be of international interest.

edit: I don’t see how kryta being strong armed into agreeing that LA is independent somehow invalidates LA’s independence. Otherwise, The USA is still British territory. Along with the Zulu nations and India.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Also how would Crown control of Lion’s Arch be of any international interest? The political status of Lion’s Arch is a Krytan domestic issue. And so long as the freedom and security of its citizens continue to be guaranteed and all the rights upheld – foreign powers can do nothing.

This is all dependant on how the politics of LA have intermingeled with other nations.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

-Centaurs are just outside Divinity’s Reach because zones don’t always change with the
time. If anet removed all the centaurs there then new players would have nothing to
do. Lets keep in mind there’s a certain gameplay-story segration here.

A-net did say in interview that the centaur are not defeated. The war continues to go back and forth. Still, all in all humans are a strong power in the world.

Humanity as a whole is “fighting for survival” compared to how much of the world they used to own. Kryta though, seems to be in pretty good shape. Their battle with the centaur goes back and forth which indicates a type of balance and we are seeing diplomats from the centaur which indicates that that kryta could be in an even better position than it has been.

I wouldn’t take the unknown amount of presence of poverty as a sign that the entire kingdom is in trouble. we’d have to see a high level of poverty compared to the level of middle class in order to make that determination.

Xomic.5792:

Does anyone have a link to where they say they’re adding new weapons?

“Now let’s talk about the specifics Colin and I chatted about during our call”.//// “What’s more is that the team is also working very kitten finding a way to make it so that every profession has access to every weapon”

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7597/Guild-Wars-2-ArenaNets-Master-Plan-for-2013.html

Or the Inuits. Norn should sound like the Inuits.

frans.8092:

All playable races have to be on an equal footing. Having multiple playable races, including the Charr, is the exact reason why they invented a Foefire.

They aren’t on equal footing. But they are on comparable footing. A-net confirmed that an entire legion of charr could beat the norn and no one but the asura controle the gates. All races aren’t equal. But they all also have something to offer.

bullyrook.2165:

Frans has a point. If the devs were not aiming for equal footing then they wouldn’t have made the Sylvari (a race only 25 years old) as powerful as the other four. However, I think they might have overdone it a bit with humans. In the course of 250 years, they lost nearly all their land and the proud and noble culture of Ascalon (you know, the nation all gw1 prophecy players start out in) is reduced to little more than a memory.

Basicly: everything your hero did in GW1 to save your homeland amounted to nothing. The Charr still won. Correction: the Flame Legion won and then the other Charr Legions claimed victory over them. Same difference, in my eyes though.

Rurik died for nothing.

They sylvari aren’t as powerful as every one else. but they are still comparable. In fact, a-net has said that they have the potential to be the most powerful some day. Confirming that total equality is not the goal.

Zaxares.5419:

Well, they kinda do. As a militaristic society, where the most respected and admired members of society are the military, they need an enemy to fight. Currently, these enemies are the Foefire ghosts, the Flame Legion, and the Elder Dragons and their minions.

If/when those enemies are defeated, the Legions will need a new foe to conquer. Of course, it’s also entirely possible that by the time that happens, the Charr as a society will have evolved so they are no longer a strictly militant society, channelling their innate bloodlust and violence into more socially acceptable means of competition such as sports and gladiatorial combat.

The Ecology describes a time like this when the charr simply turn to infighting and power mongering. And we know that any Khan-ur has to continue to prove by force that he is worthy to rule. So they can still maintain their aggressive nature without outward expansion or the need for a strong desperate defense. So competition seems absolutely possible. We see it happen naturally in Diessa Plateau over at Butchers yard.

Though PTSD is no doubt present in charr society it may not be as prevalent as we think. A big reason for PTSD is that the mentality of a battle hardened frontline soldier is incompatible with “normal” society. In charr society, those same qualities that encourage a warlike mentality are encouraged throughout charr society.

So a lot of the things that might cause PTSD in our present day human society would be counted as the norm. In ancient warrior cultures, PTSD is lessened by societies assurance to the warriors that whatever they did and saw is worthy of praise and that they deserve a heroes return.

Nice. your timing was great!

Prophet.6257:

Then Bruce Lee died…

Coincidence? I think not.

This is win.

Each High Legion is it’s own nation. So they would have no authority to call upon warbands of other HL’s. Unless of course, those warbands are tasked with helping out by their own Legion. As is the case for the charr PC’s .

Like the city-states in RL history they probably aren’t hard set until they border a friendly neighbor. e.g.: Kryta may set their borders but the centaur would probably disagree.

A little shiver in their voice might be a nice touch.

What does a northern sound sound like?

They are accepted unlike in other fantasy universes where necromancers signify evil powers at work. But even being accepted, being confronted with constant reminders of death and mortality are uncomfortable for most people. let alone when dead things are reanimated.

Wanderer.3248:

Hmmm, so those enemies in WvW are actual alternate versions of me?

Figures. Those guys are kittens.

You is one thing they are not: :P

•Player characters are unique to every world. There are no “alternate versions” of player characters that exist parallel in other worlds.

•Important NPC’s however, (Destiny’s Edge, Kiel, Magnus, Scarlet, etc.) are constants across all versions of Tyria for a reason not yet clear.

I’d personally categorize things like high rate of fire with flintlocks as game mechanics. The only thing that makes a flintlock a flintlock is the flintlock mechanism. so either they aren’t flintlocks or they are.

We also know that the different studies of magical knowledge are different very different areas of study. A-net likened them to forgetting everything you know after earning a degree and then going on to earn another. So it may be like learning rocket science and geology an psychology. They are RL areas of study subject to the same RL natural laws (as everything in RL is) but they focus on very different aspects of it.

it’s not just magic. It’s magi-tech. it’s technology that is based on solid and constant principles of magic. in GW lore, these magic principles are consistant enough to be quantifiable. we see the asura doing it. We also know that magic is naturally occuring. So we don’t need to call this naturally occuring force that is bound by laws a “natural law”, per se but we also can’t deny the lore qualities of it.

magic and technology are in no way polar opposites. The fact that asura technolgy is based on mogic principles is evidence of this. but there is a necessity to distinguish the idea of technology that is not based in magic from technology that is. What ever terms we choose to make that distinction isn’t important, so long as they convey the ideals that allow communication to compare and contrast the two very diffrent ideals.

Anet has simplified the process by just refering to charr tech as ‘technology". So this is what I tend to go with. But in no way does it preclude magitech from also being a form of technology. It just isn’t the same technology. As you’ve stated, it isn’t even in the same technological family.

There is priory event dialog that says magic is indeed a natural law. And that ritual is used becasue those laws aren’t fully understood. We know asura are as close to understanding and quantifying the magical laws as anybody is. Their (pseudo)scientific terms are applicable when quantifying mgical laws. Look at the term “aether”. it doesn’t signify electro magnetism. Aether is a terms that refers to a magical fifth element or spiritual substance through wich alchemical properties traveled. Magical and magitech lazers are really no diffrent than magical and magitech fireballs.

So i definitly agree with you photoloss that the two technolgies are just diffrent paths. But the magical laws that asura base their technolgy on is not something we have access to here in RL. This is why they study metamystics and advanced metamystics. meta means the “aboutness” of something. They study the underlying principles of mystics before they ever apply them to their technology in the Colleges.

From a race of inventors, we do know that many of Snaffs smaller inventions did focus on telepathic controle. So there may well be something to be said for that argument. At least when it comes to some individual asura mesmers.

“many of his smaller inventions focused on using telepathic control” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Snaff

edit: Though, on the elixir part, I don’t see why the charr couldn’t have had elixers that create mass change. We know the Ash Legion confirms that charr thieves use “thief magic”. And a-net confirmed that all individuals have some level of inherent magic ability. So the charr don’t completely shun any and all magic. Especially that which would be seen as natural and found in the natural world around them. e.g.: They have no problem using a type of iron alloy that has the alchemical properties that prevent ghosts from passing through it. they just seem adverse to the institutions of studied magic due to the Flame Legion. And even then, a-net has said that charr problems with the Flame Legion is more about the worship of gods and longtime oppression than their preference to shoot fireballs.

Rynn.1324:

Inquest experiments are just that. The golems seen throughout Rata Sum operate off of programmed AI decision trees, as can be seen through at least two different events that happen frequently in the city. Asura golem mind interface I was referring to was the one built by Snaff.

You’re specifically dismissing the golems that are infused with souls. To prove that golems differ from effigies because effigies are infused with spirits. That means that it isn’t actually a doffrence in that reguard. Experiment ot not since they are golems and the experiment was successful.

The AI is not magic. The Dynamics storyline specifically details your golem’s programming being tampered with.

The entire college of dynamics (as well as every other college)is based on principles of magic. being able to tamper with magic programming doesn’t negate it from being magic. The watchnights were also tampered with. where they also not magical?

Also, they fall apart because magic is indeed what holds the various pieces together.

proving that magic serves greater purpose than just a power supply.

That’s the problem. It isn’t where the lore is taking you – you’re retro-fitting the lore to meet your preconceived notions. The dev interview you keep mentioning is with two systems programmers. Not storyline editors, not lore or world leads, systems programmers. This is like basing canon Middle Earth facts on something said by Tolkien’s typesetter. If you’re looking for actual support for such things, in-game events and conversations are a much better source.

The diffrence here is that going by my interpretation, the in game sources and the interviews don’t disagree.

I’m not sure where the disagreement is for this portion is, really – magic does indeed permeate everything the Asura do. My assertion is that there is simply so much non-magical technology referenced by asura throughout the game it seems silly to assume that they’re incapable of building anything that doesn’t use it.

The fact that they can become engineers is proof that they are capable. but they simply don’t do it on any large scale as a society. please specify which of their tech has nothing to do with magic.

You mean the story where the winner of the Snaff prize looses his marbles and goes on to create a steam machine army? Yes, but that seems about as relevant as the fractal where the asura makes a protection platoon of kitty golems…

Yes, the story line where one asura combines charr and asura tech to become powerful enough to take over the world. I’d say the relevance here is that your asserions that steam tech is not used by asura due to it’s inferiority is contradicted by this very story line.

edit: I know which interface you were referencing. Snaff was that master Mesmer. He was the famed magical theorist that came up with the asura golem mind interface. The greatest mind wizard of a race that specializes in magitech invented the mind interface. You really don’t think it’s based on magic?

Rynn.1324:

Effigies are not golems. Effigies are structures imbued with either spirts or elementals that provide both the intelligence and power behind the creation. Golems specifically use AI and/or a golem/asura mindlink interface (first pioneered by Snaff) to provide their intelligence, while the structure is powered by either magick or a generator (often utilizing magical components at the very least) of some kind.

All you have to do is wonder around the asura areas to see this. There are countless conversation pieces about gyroscopes, servos, motors, circuits, generators, networks, AI, and more.

check the fun house. inquest are infusing their golems with souls. The physical aspects of a golem like servos and gyroscopes are simply more complicated versions of the sticks that effigies are made of. That AI… is magic. That asura golem interface was invented by a master Mesmer.becasue it is based on magic principles. Check out who snaff actually was. “Snaff was a highly regarded magical theorist” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Snaff Golems aren’t simply powered by magic, otherwise they wouldn’t fall apart when the magic departs upon defeating them. That means that their internal operations are intrinsically tied to magic beyond simple power supply.

And here is where the crux of the issue is. You seem to have this idea that magic is the standard fare “a wizard did it” plot glue that is used in other settings. In this setting magic IS a science. There are countless areas in the game where magic is shown augmenting traditional technology. Magic does indeed augment just about everything the asura do. But it doesn’t preclude their usage and research of technologies don’t utilize it.

The main difference that can be seen with asura technology is that they more or less skipped the iron/steam age of traditional technological development (which is basically where the Charr are currently). Or if they didn’t, it was so long ago no asura even really remembers it. After all, why power your golem with a bulky steam engine when a sufficiently charged power crystal will provide a more reliable source at 1/10th the mass and a fraction of the cost?

I’m not sure where you get that assumption of my motivation. I’m simply going where the lore takes me. I’ve already stated that asura take a scientific approach to magic. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t still magic. and in no way does that mean “a wizard did it”. In lore, the asura specialize in magi tech. Not future tech that has moved past charr tech. I’ve already posted where dev interview has specifixcally stated that charr tech is the best representation of technological advancement in tyria. Obviously they are separating magic based technology from non-magic technology. How would the charr be that representation if the asura have far surpassed them?

again, the asura in the black citadel can’t comprehend how charr tech works without incorporating magic. What specific technologies do the asura have that don’t use magic? because their entire society and all three colleges revolve around the idea that magic is infused with everything. You’re entire argument seems to consist of the idea that asura magitech doesn’t need to be the height of their advancement. While it doesn’t exactly need to be, it actually is. That’s the lore.

your view of the asura simply doesn’t line up with the stated lore.

edit:

Or if they didn’t, it was so long ago no asura even really remembers it. After all, why power your golem with a bulky steam engine when a sufficiently charged power crystal will provide a more reliable source at 1/10th the mass and a fraction of the cost?

have you played the infinity ball story line?

What Sartharina said. Every High Legion is it’s own self contained city-state. So every High Legion utilizes every class. But every HL will tend to use them differently.

tigirius.9014:

I prefer to think of Charr tech as post WWII technology which is actually quite modern comparitively to stone age tech. It included research like rockets, bombs, incendiary chemicals, chemical warfare.

Altho I do agree they limited the heck out of this class not with it’s early designs mind you but with their attempts at PVP balance they have broken many a useful thing in PVE.

I definitely agree that it is post WWII tech. When I said ‘new’ there referring to charr tech it was new for Tyria. As we have confirmation that charr tech is the height of technology in tyria that doesn’t utilize magic.

“We didn’t feel like we could ship the game without the engineer for so many reasons. His playstyle, his tie to the lore, guns, technology and charr and generally everything about the world advancing.While all the other professions are important, there were two professions we didn’t feel we could ship the game without: the guardian and engineer. The guardian is the tie back to where we were, and the engineer is forward-looking. The other professions are our ‘constant’. These two classes really tell the story of our 250 year transition.” http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/06/exclusive-interview-arenanets-jon-peters-and-jonathan-sharp/

“Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. //So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.”

“Guild Wars 2 will be taking place 250 years after Guild Wars 1. So a lot of the technology has advanced and the Engineer is the profession that embraces this the most.”
http://www.wartower.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=562

Advent.6193:

One advantage I can see, for Engineers in general, is that the Pact unites these differing
technologies for its purpose. As such, it’s not terribly impossible to predict that we’ll eventually start seeing both “sides” of the tech divide beginning to cross-pollinate ideas between one another.

This. And it is actually starting to with that newest engi heal.

Rynn.1324:

Dustfinger.9510:

A common mistake I see made is to assume that asura tech is “modern” tech. it isn’t. It is completely based in magic. It is magi-tech. Golems are closer to being charr effigies than they are to being robots.

Easily proven false. Asura do use magi-tech, and many of their designs utilize magick to high degree. However, saying that their inventions are just fancy use of magick is simply blindness trying to keep the charr on a level playing field with them.

Computer terminals with holographic displays litter every corner of Rata Sum. Golems have advanced AI routines and directives and their program logic is referenced constantly. These aren’t feats of magic beyond the power components. It’s computer and robotic technology on par and in many cases beyond what we have in the real world.

Charr technology’s main benefit is that it’s cheap and easy to mass produce to send to the battlefield. Asura technology in comparison is expensive and often impossible to produce on any kind of large scale, but it isn’t sent to the battlefield, it changes it completely.

Please explain the difference between a golem and an effigy. You’ll see that most of these pseudo scientific terms that require a golem to operate are also necessary for an effigy to function effectively. looking at the cubist golem in the beginning of the asura storyline, we see how much magic is really involved. Without the magic it is a giant pile of rubble. Magic runes are inscribed throughout asura architecture. What part of asura technology isn’t magitech? Those computers, AI routines and directives? magic based. The same as the effigies would require to function. How are they not magic based?

In fact, if you go to the black citadel around the tanks you see an asura asking how the charr technology can possibly work without the use of magic. Nothing in lore says the asura society uses any high level of technology that isn’t based in magic. asura simply take a scientific approach to magic. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t magic.

asura tech is often reproduced on a large scale. just not by the asura proper. because that level of organization isn’t their strong suit. it is reproduced by the Pact.

Just look around the world in game. Asura primary school is pre-metamystics and advanced metamystics. before they get to their colleges. Which each focus on a specific aspect of the Eternal Alchemy which deals with how magic in the world is part of a greater function.

Individual asura will dedicate an entire lifespan to building a portfolio of successful projects or becoming the foremost expert of some tiny aspect of the arcane.

Asura magical technology is second to none. Their experiments with magic are evident through the impressive floating structures found around and within their cities. Many asura study the difficult art of golemancy

Asura believe in the Eternal Alchemy – the idea that all beings and magic in the world are a part or function of a greater purpose or “machine”. Asuran life is built around the research of the Eternal Alchemy
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura

The containment units work because of alchemical properties of the iron that they are made of. We have no confirmation that I’m aware of of how the other devices work but we do know that natural objects do effect ghosts. Like being able to destroy their physical forms with normal weapons making them take time to reform.

lorewise, all engineers are specializing in charr technology. it isn’t stone age tech. Charr technology is a very new technology and it is a very effective technology. Though, they are just now starting to branch out. we see this with the racials and the newest engi heal.

A common mistake I see made is to assume that asura tech is “modern” tech. it isn’t. It is completely based in magic. It is magi-tech. Golems are closer to being charr effigies than they are to being robots.

Damash.1074:

Why should we chooce weapons over using magic?

As others have indicated, not everyone is going to be the Michael Jordan or Albert Einstein of their magical class. Most will just be ‘average’ spell casters.

In GW2 universe, using weapons seems to be on par with using magic. There will be the ‘great’ ones and there will be the average ones. Aside from that why would anyone choose to use a sword over a bow? They both offer different advantages over the other.

It makes a difference when which direction you are facing effects the damage you take. not that the current way is horrible, but the idea would provide a different play style than the current one. And that different play style would make a diifrence, even if some don’t prefer it. and best of all, you wouldn’t have to constantly hit press a button for a basic attack.

Both require the appropriate training and skill to use effectively. When asked about learning multiple types of magic, a-net likened it to getting one college degree then forgetting everything you learned and getting another. So even the different types of magic are very different from each other. It just comes down to individual preference, personality and opportunity to learn.

Everyone has some degree of magic potential. But how much they study and develop that is up to them. Guardian is a good example of this.
“I think the Guardian is much more of a pragmatic and tactical user of a magic as opposed to an Elementalist, who is a pure student of magic. The Elementalist casts discrete spells, and you have the feeling that there is a heritage and body of knowledge behind those spells.”
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/01/31/behind-the-scenes-with-the-guild-wars-2-guardian-massivelys-in/

Xyonon.3987:

Do you turn around and move sideways with arrow keys or what? o.O

You turn around and move the exact same way every one else does. Mouse and WASD. The only difference is that holding any mouse button that isn’t the right one would keep casting #1 attack while you use the mouse normally. So holding R mouse still turns you. What ever cast button is assigned doesn’t interfere with that.

Xyonon.3987:

Dustfinger.9510:

a good idea that I have read though is for the targeting reticle to follow the mouse and pressing the mouse button would launch the attack.

This is exactly how it works right now …

• put the cursor into the middle of the screen
• now a bit to the top
• press right click
• hold it
• turn around with the mouse
• press grenade 1-5 whatever you want
• throws grenades where the cursor is

• cursor won’t move now
• able to move and throw
• every decent engi does that
• everyone o.o’’

It’s not at all how it works right now. What you deascribed locks the cursor in one position. And still requires the same amount of effort to launch the basic attack as if it is a special attack.

What I described by holding the mouse button allows the cursor to move independent of your positioning and movement while still allowing you to anticipate an opponent with the basic #1 attack without having to continuously press ‘1111111’. Holding it is closer to auto attack than continually pressing the same button for a basic attack.

jweez gave an excellent answer.

The reason a lot of the class lore in GW2 seems like it’s missing is because there will be many different archtypes for each profession. depending on race, and individuality. e.g.: Ranger can be hunters, scouts, beast masters, biologists, etc. all depending on how the race treats a profession and how an individual uses the skills. they wouldn’t all have the same background or motivations like in other fanatasy universes where classes share those types of things.

No word since last year when they said they were working kitten making it happen.

Tarreth.8914:

What, if norn is to stand against a gun, that is able to simply burn him? Ghostfire shells, remember. As we know from late Orrian Assault, these babies are able to burn everything within it’s path.
And if a norn would charge a charr, armed with such a weapon, it would be his funeral.

And if the norn was armed with just his fists while the charr had a tank with it’s gun pointed directly at the norns head, the charr would probably win as well. ………. but why? :P

pdavis.8031:

So maybe the EDs DID come from the mists, they are on Tyria for a reason, a reason we don’t know, and may never learn. Although I like the idea that the EDs are angry at the Mists, or greater beings of the mists, and are exacting their revenge on Tyria, being banished there.

Unless the devs come out with a new piece of lore, or we learn something in game about them, I just like to play around with various ideas and stories as to their origins, and their ultimate intentions on Tyria.

Absolutely. I’m also a fan of speculation on lore

The only way we’d really be able to infer a ‘beyond the mists’ is if we ignore some of the information in favor of the rest. making some of that information false.

If we take all the information into account, though, then none of the information would be wrong. Take humans for instance. Their origins are unknown even though they arrived in Tyria through the Mists. And Since we have confirmation that all life owes it’s existence to the Mists, it demonstrates that there isn’t really a “beyond the Mists” so much as a “beyond Tyria”.

So while there may only be one ultimate origin of life (Mists), there may be many worlds from which the Mists sprung that life.

Sartharina.3542:

Simple definition of homeland – the land where someone (A person, family, clan, or even race) was born, raised, and prospered on.

The humans, Norn, and Asura are all extremely imperialist. The Humans are Imperialist with their God-given mandate to civilize and spread their version of order and governance to the land. The Charr are imperialist in their desire to conquer the land for the glory of the Legions (Now that they’ve developed their militant culture as a reaction to overcome human imperialism and later Flame Legion theocracy), and the Asura see themselves as the only ones with the brains to conquer and rule the above-ground world as they had the subterrain before.

Exactlly. Thank you for that. The definition of homeland applies across the board. it’s not some magical word that only applies when humanity invokes it.

Small note though: The charr actually developed their militant culture before they met humanity.

“The Charr were once a primitive people, filled with rage and a primal drive to dominate and control. They fought everything that threatened them – even one another – only surviving this brutal period by evolving into a strict hierarchical society. Disparate, fierce, and independent warbands unified under a single leader, the Khan-Ur, for the good of the race, and a golden age of Charr dominance began.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr

Kalavier.1097:

Yes, the author does wish for a more peaceful future, but being in the manuscripts/manual and being the history of Tyria, I doubt this is some “vague author living on the outskirts of society”.

Not only this but the idea that the author of the manuscripts that set the tone for the entire first game, would be a charr sympathizer has all kinds of implications in charr favor.

Tarreth.8914:

It’s no secret, that physical side of norns is simply outstanding. Their bodies may survive more, than bodies of any other living being of Tyria (except for dwarves), but Charr’s strength lies not in a single soldier. Charr’s strength, it’s fierce power and ferocity is heard in thundering guns and and war machines. The Marching Charr army is making the earth itself tremble.

Discipline, duty, loyality. Victory at all cost.

So much this.

Charr are amazing enough in their own right without turning them into furry norn.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Actual we know that they took the land from no prior race. Since before humanity no race has claimed the land as per my prescribed definition. All tests must be in evidenced.

A peoples that claim the land as their must show evidence that not only have they actively use the land they MUST pass the test of showing that they have “developed” the land. As well as all tests that form the definition!

The “development” test is proven by means of permanent structures consistent with on-going permanent settlement. There must also be signs of cultivation of the land for the production of food capable of feeding said settlement(s). Clearly there was no evidence of a peoples that pass this test to any reasonable level.

And as for being able to “willing and able to hold the land via force of arms”? There was no evidence that humanity face armed resistance when they claimed Ascalon. So this test was also not met.

Thus as already stated Humanity claim on Ascalon was legitimate and legal.

Ergo, in your opinion the vast majority of Native Americans have no actual ancestral homeland.

Clearly, you took a legal definition on a claim of land in todays society and are trying to shoehorn this into the definition of what a “Homeland” is. But it doesn’t actually give us a definition of homeland. The fact that no one is willing to provide this definition of homeland is very telling.

edit: as far as armed resistance:

“Driven back in the first war against the humans, the Charr were forced to surrender the lands that would become Ascalon.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ecology_of_the_Charr

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

So to exclusively claim that only Humanity can be legitimately be accused of being historical “Imperialist” is obviously a view that is biased in the extreme!

No one made this claim. In fact, the charr are great imperialists to the point of “subjugating or destroyed any and all who dared defy them”. They have both done it. Point being, the same standard applies to both charr and humanity. (which is a more balanced point and pretty unbias.)

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Dustfinger.9510:

It’s clear from this objection and many others before it that your views are very anti-humanity, and clearly bias in favour of their enemies – in this case the Charr. You see a “double standard” when there is no evidence of it.

The definition of the legitimate and thus legal claim of a piece of Land as one’s Homeland is: The race of peoples after witnessing no actual or reasonable evidence of prior claim to the land, claiming it for it self and from that day forth actively use and develop the land as its owner, whilst being willing and able to hold said land via force of arms.

This definition can be applied to any other piece of land in Tyria. In the case of Ascalon prior to the events of the first game it was clear that it was humanity that held Ascalon as their Homeland – as per the definition stated.

We know humanity took it from someone else. As per your definition, humanities claim is invalidated due to the fact that someone else being on the land is a reasonable evidence of prior claim. But if we can justify it being okay for humanity then that same justification can be applied elsewhere.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

It wasn’t a wrong assumption. If the Proph writers had meant for it to be some Charr homeland, they certainly would have mentioned it at least once in the whole campaign. There was never any indication, whether through the lore nor through direct quotes, of it having been some ancestral homeland of the Charr. You’d think, at any point in that long saga, you’d hear a Charr say something to the effect of “We’re taking our home back!” You don’t because they aren’t from there…well that and they couldn’t even speak the common tongue. It probably would have been a better story had the writer decided to do that, but they didn’t.

Definition of homeland? Just use my Rome example. Oh and Ascalon is Ascalons homeland, not humanities in general.

I’m asking for an actual definition. Any specific definition will equally support charr homeland if it can support human homeland.

So, how do we know it was nobodies homeland before humanity took it?

Based on available evidence its clear that it was Humanity that lay claim to Ascalon as a homeland first. And thus built many cities on said land. The claim is widely accept by every human. From the modest farm-hand right up to and including the reigning monarch of the day right up to King Adelbern. In fact “For Ascalon” is a common greeting used by all Ascalonian humans towards any other human or friend.

At no time did the pc see any evidence that any significant group of npc humans or any npc in fact claiming otherwise during the whole Prophecies campaign. It can be seen , taken together there is at least circumstantial evidence that it was Humans that formed the first legitimate claim to the land and held it up to and including the events of the “Eye of the North”.

Naturally, any human would. They had been their for 1000 years after all. But any actual definition that supports humanity will also support anyone else who was there before humanity. and we always knew that someone was. But based on the available evidence, it actually isn’t clear at all because we initially knew absolutely nothing of the land, pre-humanity.

let’s examine the evidence:

-humanity took that land from somebody

-They eventually started thinking of it as their homeland.

That’s it. That’s the evidence in it’s entirety. Where in there does it indicate that no one else could had it as their homeland before humanity took it?

terms like “legitimate claim” and “homeland” are good to create the appearance of validity. But without a definition, they mean very little. When those definitions are laid out, the double standard is readily apparent.

“Weak things come in small packages.” – Ploink

“This is in the game mechanics so I’m walking on thin ice at the moment.//You may have the ability to become the wolf or snow leopard as well. This is from the play standpoint as opposed to lore, we are still in discussions about this.” – Jeff Grubb
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/towertalk-norn-interview-jeff-grubb-transcription/

Obsidian.1328:

It wasn’t a wrong assumption. If the Proph writers had meant for it to be some Charr homeland, they certainly would have mentioned it at least once in the whole campaign. There was never any indication, whether through the lore nor through direct quotes, of it having been some ancestral homeland of the Charr. You’d think, at any point in that long saga, you’d hear a Charr say something to the effect of “We’re taking our home back!” You don’t because they aren’t from there…well that and they couldn’t even speak the common tongue. It probably would have been a better story had the writer decided to do that, but they didn’t.

Definition of homeland? Just use my Rome example. Oh and Ascalon is Ascalons homeland, not humanities in general.

I’m asking for an actual definition. Any specific definition will equally support charr homeland if it can support human homeland.

So, how do we know it was nobodies homeland before humanity took it?

Obsidian.1328:

It was nobody’s homeland before that…that’s the point. Unless you want to say Grawl or Gargoyle or something. You seem to have a different definition of homeland. Being inside someone’s territory doesn’t make you in their homeland. The Blazeridge Steppes were to the Charr what the Italian peninsula was to Rome. Stepping across Hadrian’s wall in England didn’t put you in Roman homeland, just their territory. Why are you arguing this, I thought this was a no-brainer?

How do we know that it was nobodies homeland? We always knew that humanity took it from somebody. This “no-brainer” is based on unsupported assumptions that turned out to be wrong. before a-net said it was charr land we knew nothing of the history of the people who humanity took it from. saying that it was nobodies implies that we knew anything about it pre-humanity.

edit: I’d ask what your definition of homeland is. because anything that could qualify Ascalon as humanities homeland will also support it being a possibility for charr ancestrial homeland before we ever knew that it actually was.

Frosch.7809:

What i see as a double standard is calling Ascalon the Charr’s ancestral homeland and accepting their actions such as genocide, destruction of the ecology and plenty of other things (i am not aiming at you specifically here, Dustfinger).

After a thousand years Ascalon was long human land. It’s Charr land again today. But it is so by military force, not because they had a moral claim to it. The Charr’s own actions (mostly the Searing) prevented them from having any rights to Ascalon imo.

Ingame in GW2 it is actually their own justification for their deeds to call it their ancestral homeland. It’s the Charr’s point of view, not a neutral one and one should not expect players to simply accept that as the (only) truth. Truth is a highly subjective thing in GW2 and can change on a whim.

but that’s not really a double standard. That’s saying any country loses all rights to it’s land when they act like pee holes. That may be an opinion of what they deserve but it has nothing to do with cold hard fact that they used to live there.

If the humans can have a moral claim on the land after they stole it, why wouldn’t the charr be able to redeem that same moral claim?