Guild Wars 2

Tuluum.9638:

@Dynnen;

Your definitions of psychological warfare are a bit more limited than mine. I actually thought it was intentional and was applauding you on it. :\ So.. I guess I take it back?

And to clarify, I use 1v1 and 1:1 interchangeably. Ill be more specific in the future.

As for the strategies you use.. Utilizing positioning, etc. is all very important to PvP. I dont disagree that its effective. Other than that, I am not sure what your point is, would you mind clarifying?

See ya on the battlefield.

1) I was trying to say that we are not trying to get into your heads and what we do that might drift into the edges of what most people would call ‘psy-ops’ would be giving the enemy a false sense of security in our movements. If I was going to be doing psy-ops against your server I would get in your server’s VOIP and being a large HUMINT/SIGINT operation against your server. But thats a lot of work and its easier just to hit things.
2) I was trying to show that we do get beat and what usually leads to us getting beat. I was also trying to show how much work we put into getting the right positioning initiating combat.
3) I was making a passive aggressive comment about your passive aggressive comment, IE making statements that can be interpreted a certain way but also give you a way to fall back feigning innocence or ignorance.
4) The last statement was poorly worded, my son woke up from his nap and was distracted. The point I was trying to make is that I don’t know very many people that 1v1, and the smallest group of people that I’ve seen out there consistantly is OINK and they run 3-5 man. The comment you made later about 1v1 and 1:1 being interchangeable makes sense, but we don’t go looking for pitched battles. We exploit every piece of terrain/map knowledge that we can to get whatever advantages are available. Also saying that we like to go out and fight is kind of a moot point. Of course we like to go out and fight, its how our 10-15 people can contribute the best. Slowing down enemy resupply/reinforcement avenues, stopping enemy zergs that are attacking defense points, or flanking a DH zerg that just broke down an IoJ door then taking the defense point for ourselves. I wouldn’t say our priority is points, but we do try to contribute when we can.

Unfortunately I can’t TLDR this, since its kind of a TLDR for a previous post =(

Tuluum.9638:

Dynnen.6405:

If by ‘small scale’ you mean 10-15 of our guys versus 30+ of your guys then yea. Just ask the 30+ group of DH AND IoJ that got smashed at Wildcreek 12 hours ago.

Windmoor; This is exactly what I mean with the psychological warfare. You would get the impression that every loss is nothing more than being outnumbered, and every win is sheer skill. Its a very effective tool, though it has its drawbacks as well. I think that each of the servers in this tier represents a pretty different “culture,” and they all have their drawbacks/strengths, so I do think you will find what you are looking for!

@Dynnen:

Thats not what I meant, obviously. There are plenty of occasions where the situation is that way for each and every server, countless times through every single match. Like I said, apologies if you found offense in what I said. I was just calling it like I see it. We all have plenty of room to grow and improve. Its fine for you to disagree, and I certainly dont mean it in a demeaning or insulting manner.

This isn’t psychological warfare. That would be something like repeatedly knocking back a downed player further away from their lines. Or extending out enemy zergs making them think we are running. Things like that. Theres been a whole lot of passive aggressive kittengery coming from certain people, where as my kind of kittengery comes direct or at the end of my GS/Hammer. Posts on these forums are more about making comments for or against opinions. And have we lost to zergs? Absolutely. Was it to the numbers? Most of the time yes because we routinely pick the terrain to fight in. We have to do this so we can actually compete against these numbers, also from the unnecessary AOE cap. However there are times when we get beat because we are out of position. We pick the ground to fight on, or engage at the right time. Either we lost due to bad positioning or numbers. There are exceptions to this of course. The ECHO squad from E-bay has a lot of really good players in their groups and both them and us have lost to each other due to one or two people performing their roles better at that time. However they typically don’t run in excess of 15. Also during a hills keep fight we fought against IoJ and DH there was an engie that somehow managed to tool kit pull me through the entry doorway room. Was pretty impressed by that.
During our runs the driver (commanding office, guy in charge, all knowing merciless god, Tzar) is constantly moving the group into and out of various areas to maximize the terrains advantage. Moving into cover and repositioning, flanking, two-pronged attacks, making a cordon with reflect walls, strong initiates, and various other things are what the driver is primarily concerned about while everyone else’s job is to do perform their roles as best they can, provide information to the driver, and have fun.

Its also kinda funny that in the same post you would passive aggressively insult us, then apologize profusely. But, back to your 1v1 comment. The smallest groups that our server has to offer is OINK, 5 dudes fighting their kitten off. I can’t specifically think of anyone that roams around by themselves in any wvw maps constantly looking for 1v1 fights. So the comment was more geared towards that fact that there is hardly anyone that only looks for 1v1 fights out there.

Un-cap the AOE and you will see a significant drop in zergs…trust me.

Tuluum.9638:

Windmoor.9834:

Hello, DR and DH…IoJ as well, but this is directed more to DR & DH.

I’m so glad there is a fight night arranged on Thursdays. This is something I have enjoyed being a part of on CD, and will look forward to enjoying again soon with one of you. It is looking like by next reset…not tomorrow…I will be choosing between you two servers.

I have read through most of this thread to get to know the two of you….interesting read, all I got to say. Well I guess not ALL I got to say…You guys should start to respect your enemies a little more. On the same note I have seen a lot worse so there is effort here, which is a good sign. Just fight the good fight on the field, and pad your enemy when they deserve to be padded on the forums. Chewing the rag makes everyone resentful and bitter.

But the main reason for me posting here is; Are there community leaders for each of these servers that I could be put in touch with?

Ill just give a bit of a run down as I see it.

DH doesnt really have much of a structure, and definitely not a specific leader. We have several people that are great commanders, and some that are still learning. We lost most of our “vanity commanders” when we had a mass exodus to various different servers. We are actively working on becoming a better team though. While some of us do participate in things like fight night, I think most of us are more focused on WvW and the team at this point. My suspicions in this regard were only backed up by hearing how few DH showed up for fight night. To be clear, I dont participate in things like fight night either.

DR has more population than they let on. Regardless, you will constantly see the “outnumbered but not outgunned” theme from them. Its, imo, a great stance to take though, since the worst situations are those where you ARE very outnumbered. This stance allows the players to put the responsibility of a loss on things out of their control, and that can be a good motivational tool. They dont seem to give up even when they get wiped, and have some very skilled individual players, which pretty much directly correlates to some great 1v1 and fight nights. I have yet to see anything that particularly impressed me from a guild group.

IoJ is actually the server that has impressed me the most. They are definitely outnumbered, but have kept the score close to DR. Their downside is that it seems the really impressive guild groups are a bit inconsistent with their participation. Groups like UnS and… RISE (?) pulled off some stuff that I really, really enjoy going up against. The first time I saw UnS was yesterday, and I havent seen the other guild (still not sure on tag, apologies) since the first two days of this round. Certainly doesnt mean they arent there, its just my take on things like I said . I think if they participated in GvG style fights, they would really impress a lot of people.

TL;DR: DH is pretty focused on the team as a whole, and WvW. DR is more interested in 1v1, very small scale fights, and plenty of psychological warfare. IoJ has extremely impressive groups, as well as individual players, but their participation seems inconsistent.

Other servers will have to tell you more if they have a central leadership, etc. And to everyone, dont take offense or anything if you dont agree. Since it is my own view, you are likely to disagree on certain points anyway.

If by ‘small scale’ you mean 10-15 of our guys versus 30+ of your guys then yea. Just ask the 30+ group of DH AND IoJ that got smashed at Wildcreek 12 hours ago.

Holy late night coverage DH!

nyckolag.2394:

Congratulations! You’ve now come off as a fool, because whilst Starkk pointed out genuine flaws in your playstyle, you’re targeting a PvE orientated guild that has very little WvW presence; probably attempting to belittle them with a snide, mocking remark…

…All because one of their members told you to step up your game?

Way to ruin the WvW spirit, buddy!

Get over it.

Well since he is from a pve oriented guild why is he mentioning that other people should step up their game in wvw? Or maybe this is a sarcastic comment against kinkygiraffe?

Gab Superstar.4059:

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Oozo.7856:

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

I laugh at you ADNOQQBTSY guys, after we wiped your group at the ogrecamp, you decide to hit us as we’re wiping DH’s zerg and still didnt wipe us, you guys arent as scary as you were a month ago, pick up your game

Heh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAGe_2HDwc

How did we do? I guess it could have been better, someone got damaged I think.

Good on you, you can upload videos of you WINNING, how about the times you lose? Are you just not recording then? When we were wiping you, we had about 5 people in teamspeak, and the rest were pugs really… Sorry we didnt record our l33t skilz and show off only when we WIN

And its expected that you guys win, youre organised in teamspeak fighting against groups of pugs…pugs that may be new to WvW, new to PvP, lower levels, and people, like me, that are just not good at pvp going against you guys. You lot defeating twice your numbers is nothing special, it is expected, you SHOULD be defeating that many.

P.S In that video, you wiped a group of people distracted taking a camp…again, its expected that you win.

Great week nonetheless everyone!

There are a couple of things that are downright silly with your post.

1) In many of Oozo’s videos he shows us being stomped. Oozo (who records) was not there when you “wiped” us, as is evident by his previous posting.

2) It is expected, but for some reason you claim we don’t. We never brag about being awesomeleetsauce on the forums unless someone likes you has the urge to trakittenalk us. Oozo merely uploads videos because people enjoy watching them.

3) Do you think we are going to engage a group 2-3 times our size in the open field? Of course we are gonna wait until they are distracted at the camp. That zerg was scouted by our thieves a long time before the video started.

What does taking a camp have to do with anything? Are they so focused on their dps rotations that they aren’t panning their cameras the entire time?

Situational Awareness: Stay Alert! Stay Alive!

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

Oozo.7856:

KinkyGiraffe.4123:

I laugh at you ADNOQQBTSY guys, after we wiped your group at the ogrecamp, you decide to hit us as we’re wiping DH’s zerg and still didnt wipe us, you guys arent as scary as you were a month ago, pick up your game

Heh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAGe_2HDwc

How did we do? I guess it could have been better, someone got damaged I think.

Good on you, you can upload videos of you WINNING, how about the times you lose? Are you just not recording then? When we were wiping you, we had about 5 people in teamspeak, and the rest were pugs really… Sorry we didnt record our l33t skilz and show off only when we WIN

And its expected that you guys win, youre organised in teamspeak fighting against groups of pugs…pugs that may be new to WvW, new to PvP, lower levels, and people, like me, that are just not good at pvp going against you guys. You lot defeating twice your numbers is nothing special, it is expected, you SHOULD be defeating that many.

P.S In that video, you wiped a group of people distracted taking a camp…again, its expected that you win.

Great week nonetheless everyone!

That was the smallest group we smashed that night, and one of about 20 different groups. We actually had to leave that camp because both DH and IOJ stopped showing up, I guess that means we won Zombie Survival Mode! I made it to rank 4 and 1/2 with only taking a 2 supply camps and killing for the rest if that gives you an idea of just how many people we killed.
But, its too bad we spent most of the time when our main group was on curb stomping riot. But, congrats to you beat 8 people with a group of 15+. Theres times we are out there and don’t have our mains, or don’t have a good group composition…but we still go out there. If you wanna take one fight and try to blanket the entire week with it, go for it.

Jace.6973:

Who is Northern Shiverpeaks?

Northern Shiverpeaks is a server that has gone through its up’s, as well as gone through it’s downs. But the great thing about Northern Shiverpeaks is the community that is left on NSP. Alot of the population left for the server Kaineing over 4 months ago to join the alliance they were setting up. This left NSP with a bunch of loyal people on and off the battlefield.

What we can offer.
NSP offers a great variety in guilds, with some key guilds being MoB,Os,ZoS,ROFL, ect. Were all part of a community here working with eachother on and off of the battlefield.

If anyone has any questions about NSP feel free to send me a mail ingame (I’m leaving for a hockey game right as I’m typing this but I will be back later tonight).

Here is my guild on reset nice to give you a small idea of what NSP has to offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1-nWj_qA7c

You could use a few Deep Strike Guards to help with those pushes

danbuter.2314:

Compared to other classes, Guardians are doing fantastic. If you think we have it bad, try playing an Engineer, Necro, or Ranger.

Watch any of his power necro fights and then tell me how it sucks to play Necro:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RaggokOozo

Watch any of his ranger/engie fights and tell me how it sucks to play Ranger/engie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcZeKgtU_w0

Engie is a REALLY strong class, its unfortunate that 90% of them out there aren’t playing it that well. The tool kit is really strong for power or confusion builds, the juggernaut flamethrower spec has become really strong as well. There are a few rifle builds out there that are really strong as well that have a 8 or 10 second CD 2 second root. And don’t forget about support engie, especially now that its been buffed all to hell.

Jax.5261:

I honestly have no problems with the Guardian in tPvP, aside from a few bugs of course. I can also give a standpoint of the scepter from a purely spvp perspective:

• Scepter 3 is one of the best skills a Guardian has, the ability to root an enemy for one of your allies to burst down is so incredibly strong. Hundred Blades with the enemy snared (at the same time), mesmer shatter with the enemy unable to dodge. It is so amazingly strong, although a buff to this skill will promote a lot more teamwork play, unfortunately people would just spam it too much and it would encourage bad players to use it even worse.
• Scepter 2 is a very decent skill does put that extra bit of damage on and it’s the nutorious aegis remover! Nothing removes more aegis than smite! Making it a symbol would make symbol builds viable on a bunker/support build, which would be insanely OP unfortunately! Although if these builds were toned down slightly (in the amount healed) then it would be a very fun build to play.
• Scepter 1, so hated by the community, due to being able to dodge by vibrating on the spot. The shortbow on ranger is also vulnerable to this type of dodging (don’t tell anybody it’s a seekrit!). It’s currently way too powerful to make all the projectiles hit and I like it the way it is, in PvE it doesn’t matter the enemies stand still. I don’t want the scepter to be a DPS weapon because it’s going to make support Bunkers overpowered and they’re going to take away defensive skills instead (which will make Guards UP).

So to sum up; if you really want the scepter buffed it will have to only be a PvE change because it’s already extremely strong in PvP and if they do chose to buff it in both we’re going to get nerfs to both PvP and PvE in other defensive areas.

SB on ranger has a much higher chance to hit due to its rate of fire and travel speed. If scepter 1 was like that I’d be fine with it (lets not forget 20% projectile finisher). However SB 1 on ranger’s effective range is about 900 instead of 1200 if the target is moving, which is kinda dumb imo.

This is how I felt as we were wiping that massive DH zerg outside DR BL Hills keep.

Thrumdi.9216:

Dynnen.6405:

Thrumdi.9216:

The problem isn’t WXP. The problem is the underlying mechanics of the game. (No healers, no trinity, downed state, 5-man limit to AoE etc.).

That is what creates the zerg. The rewards (like WXP) just amplify the underlying problem.

Solution? ESO.

I think its called ‘TESO’ and ‘wow classic’ not ‘ESO’ and ‘Vanilla wow’ Silly post-expansion players

jk jk

Anywho, about the only thing that is contributing to more zergs that you mentioned is the 5-man aoe limit. The trinity/healer would only prolong fights (trust me, just watch ADQQSTY videos) and downed state only supports zergs if the other players dont capitalize on it. Downed players make an impromptu killzone, downed enemies are great!
However, I knew this WXP was going to cause a kittenload of karma training off the start, but eventually people will realize that killing is a good way to get WXP too. If they really wanted to make people defend they would have made some sort of small missions in each defense point that gave you WXP the longer you held it. Like ‘feed the guards out front of hills keep’ that way you couldn’t afk and get the WXP. Then they could also give more WXP for taking a keep that was more heavily fortified and next to none that wasn’t upgraded at all.

Man, I’m a kitten genius.

Actually, internally at ZOS they call it ESO.

Link.

Elder Scrolls Online
@TESOnline

also go ahead and google TESO

Seems like they can’t really agree, however the devs I’ve watched in interviews have said TESO…well most of them.

Thrumdi.9216:

The problem isn’t WXP. The problem is the underlying mechanics of the game. (No healers, no trinity, downed state, 5-man limit to AoE etc.).

That is what creates the zerg. The rewards (like WXP) just amplify the underlying problem.

Solution? ESO.

I think its called ‘TESO’ and ‘wow classic’ not ‘ESO’ and ‘Vanilla wow’ Silly post-expansion players

jk jk

Anywho, about the only thing that is contributing to more zergs that you mentioned is the 5-man aoe limit. The trinity/healer would only prolong fights (trust me, just watch ADQQSTY videos) and downed state only supports zergs if the other players dont capitalize on it. Downed players make an impromptu killzone, downed enemies are great!
However, I knew this WXP was going to cause a kittenload of karma training off the start, but eventually people will realize that killing is a good way to get WXP too. If they really wanted to make people defend they would have made some sort of small missions in each defense point that gave you WXP the longer you held it. Like ‘feed the guards out front of hills keep’ that way you couldn’t afk and get the WXP. Then they could also give more WXP for taking a keep that was more heavily fortified and next to none that wasn’t upgraded at all.

Man, I’m a kitten genius.

Tuluum.9638:

just out of curiosity Gab, what guild/tag are you running?

Since you were wondering he is part of Anonymous Defender [AD] which is part of the illustrious alliance ADQQSTY (AD/NoQQ/BSty). You’ll find us running around between objective points hunting zergs or defending them in ‘Zombie Survival Mode’ with the door and most of the walls down massacring people as they come in.

Also since you have said we have a lack of focus on points for the week I’d disagree. Does murdering enemy players by the hundreds as they are trying to reinforce one of their defense points while someone from our server takes it not PTFO? Is sneaking into a bay keep while the other two servers fight over it, then killing everyone inside not PTFO? If you think those aren’t PTFO then maybe you should research some strategic strategies; and avoid using strategies like ‘Xerxes at Thermopylae’

“I want to kitten kill those mother kitten kittens!”

- Gab Superstar

We gotta theory craft sometime Amins!

Ill stalk ya on your TS soon

echo.2053:

CrazyCanuck.4265:

Where are these players? Or did you mean to say amazing zergs. Quite frankly I have yet to see a group smaller than 15 do anything more than cap sentries and get wiped by 5 people. I have literally had better fights from ioj up level roamers then anything I’ve seen from dark haven.. Your weekday force must really suck cause you guys are very reminiscent of the mass zerging/pvdooring that SBI did, yet you are in T6.

Also the hacking that happened at NW tower in drbl tonight by 3-4 DH was pretty sad.. As if pvdooring wasn’t boring enough.

Oh DR, How I love thy.

Hmm well this awkward in the very short amount of free time that I am able to play was mostly chasing the DR zergs back to some fort where they would look down at us. Even more time was spent with bottles on my fingers, clinking them together waiting for them to come down…..meh any who I am enjoying this week keep on keeping on with the unmerciful smiles of war

Must be talking about the PUG zergs. Although we think our 15-20 ADQQSTY is a zerg, to most of the server populations that number isn’t. Sometimes I get confused =P

thesocialshift.2406:

Dynnen.6405:

Soraskellington.7281:

I made a nice little video of a moment last night that was pretty awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arMPniJjtBo

ROFL, 40? You’ve obviously never seen 40+ tbh. With 40+ you get waves of players (5 at a time) culling in and out of your vision while they are moving around. I didn’t see any of that here. Looks like 20-25.

Pretty awesome video imo, do you really need to nitpick exact numbers? sigh There were less DH than mentioned too if you count. Videos are fun and you can learn from them, I wish I could see a video of our DH people getting eaten by sharks, that would have been a fun one xD.

irishhaf.1692:

So honest question Darkhaven… with the numbers you guys put in the field all day long… why are you in this tier?

We were in tier 7 a few weeks back so we’re making progress and working hard to improve even more. However, AR and BP can both outnumber us pretty much all day still; we were lucky to hold our borderland keeps for a day with either of them. You must admit there have been some really good fights so far this week.

Well, yea you gotta nit pick the numbers. Saying the enemy numbered twice what was there is wrong in a few ways. Once you actually start fighting 40 players you will be able to tell based on the culling mid fight. Downed players vanishing for no reason is one of the primary ones. Reset night we 15 held the Southwest camp in IOJ BL from 40+. The archway into it as well as the hill from the southeast part of it were two really amazing choke points like that. Besides isn’t the point of videos to nitpick what you did wrong or right?

Soraskellington.7281:

I made a nice little video of a moment last night that was pretty awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arMPniJjtBo

ROFL, 40? You’ve obviously never seen 40+ tbh. With 40+ you get waves of players (5 at a time) culling in and out of your vision while they are moving around. I didn’t see any of that here. Looks like 20-25.

I don’t play much SPvP, however I know what would force each player to change their specs and that would be different game types. Something akin to Enemy Territory RTCW maps. 4 stage assault maps with an attacker and defender, good terrain with multiple ways into each objective forcing good communication as well as different specs.

Are Guards this kittening threatening in SPvP? So if they do this, then we can look forward to some more kitten streaming down the glorious SPvP mountain down with us lowly WvWers.

Danicco.3568:

It’s unfortunate though, this means Zeal/Radiance/Virtue is limited to PvE, and we’re required to go Valor/Honor for PvP/WvW to reach the developer’s “good spot” vision of Guardians.

So I’m not crazy…thank you Danicco! Although I can’t run a build very well in wvw without 20 into Virtues for Absolute Resolution. I catch a whooooooooooole lot of conditions.

Aberrant.6749:

Scepter 1 needs a faster moving projectile

Sword 3 needs to be able to actually hit a moving target

Nod Nod Agreed.

Also… Ring of Warding still needs a fix. No dodges through this, no falling out of the circle when knocked down. Teleports/stability to get out are fine.

Guard needs a viable condition build.

Thats not a bad idea for Scepter 1, although I was thinking something more like Book of Wrath 1. You target someone and auto cast a small aoe explosion on them. Scepter 2 being a symbol would actually make it really nice instead of mediocre. And I believe the main problem with Sword 3 is that it moves too slow as well as locks onto the place where the target was and fires there. I also agree with condition build. I’m just not sure what exactly they would be able to give us. Maybe confusion would work with the lore, but I’m not seeing bleeding or poison.

I’m not saying Guards are terrible, because there are not. Its just there are some key, glaringly brutal, issues with small parts of the class. A lot of these issues extend from the original post as well as Zeal/Radiance needing some love.

Then again, I am looking at these problems from a strictly wvw point of view. =P

Faux Sheaux.6179:

Dynnen.6405:

Kitten kitten is it kitten zergy tonight!

Choo choo goes the karma train!

All over my poor poor ranger =*(

Kitten kitten is it kitten zergy tonight!

Sanguina.2675:

I love ADQQSTY too! I follow them no matter where they go! : P

Yes…yes you do, lol

I would like sPvP more if there was some sort of objective based map similar to any of the Enemy Territory games (attackers much breach the beach wall, assault the radio station, capture the command post, move documents back to base. Defenders must stop them)

[quote=1667848;Viralseed.9362:]

Viralseed.9362:

Adjusted? You mean the range of Leap of Faith? If so, it doesn’t. Mighty Blow is a blast finisher. It doesn’t need range. It already applies some of the most powerful effects to you and your allies with the right combo fields, and it does it every 5 seconds (4 seconds with traits). It also causes significantly more damage than Leap of Faith. It doesn’t need a change. Hell, I will go as far as to say that the three two-handed weapons the Guardian has are balanced. I find myself using each on different occasions by tweaking my major traits slightly.[/quote]

Two or three patches ago they improved the leap on GS 3. In the last portion of the leap they made it lock onto the target better and nearly completely fixed it. It still misses on occasion, but it hits about 90% of the time. They need to do the same thing to Hammer 2. Making it lock onto the target better in the last portion to improve the chance to hit. With haste its a small problem, trying to Mighty Blow down an incline will get you no damage at all.

Kryptonite.7580:

Dynnen.6405:

I was quite disappointed to see that Guards weren’t getting any love this patch or even mentioned as needed fixing. I love the class, but there are some things that need to be addressed.

1) Scepter 1
2) Sword 3
3) Shield CD compared to other shield classes.
4) Zeal/Radiance tree traits/stat allocations (especially the GM traits)
5) 4 second daze that thieves can steal from us
6) Hammer 2 needs to be adjusted just like Greatsword 3.

(EDIT: Removed the GS5 bug, added #6)

wow all of these abilities have amazing uses and by far hammer 2 is amazing and iif u are complaining about it u are obviously doing something wrong or move to another class becasue guard is not for u

Scepter 1: You can avoid it by strafeing from 300-400 range very easily.
Sword 3: 600 range attack that has the same issue as Scepter 1. Its only really effective if you are in someones face.
Shield CDs: Look at everyone elses shield CD and how effective they are.
Zeal/Radiance trees: definitely need some work, I don’t think I’m alone on this one.
4 second daze: A joke, but would like a 4 second daze
Hammer 2: If I have quickness from Mesmer the damage will actually hit in the air above the target, missing asura and some humans/sylvari. Then if you are on an incline it will miss all but Norns. Not talking about the damage, just talking about the leap needs the same adjustment they gave to Greatsword 3.

Teamkiller.4315:

Dynnen.6405:

Teamkiller.4315:

At their peak, I have enjoyed Shadowbane, DaoC, and Warhammer more than GW2 but given the curent populations, those aren’t really options.

I’d like to point out that because of WuvWuv’s substantially higher population, they are most likely satisfying the majority of those who want open world pvp and those who hate zerging are an outspoken minority.

I want tweaks to wvw too, but don’t make it so that elite 5 mans can just farm zergs.

Removing AOE caps would further unbalance classes. That ele spamming meteor shower? Yeah way more effective than that poor shortbow ranger.

First off, you can’t spam meteor shower, secondly the shortbow ranger isn’t meant to be an aoe weapon, and third you can dodge out of damage which balances out a lot of issues with damage. Un-capping the AOE would do a lot to balance the game. Look at it like this. 5 players flank 20 players attacking a tower. The five players hit them hard and knock a few down. The twenty players turn and hit them and the 5 players drop quickly.

Why would something like this happen? This is the reason. A 20 player team can put their damage into 100% of the 5 player team. However the 5 player team can put their damage into 25% of the 20 man team. Not only does this not make sense at all, its a drastic imbalance and punishes the players using good tactics while rewarding those making mistakes.

no, no it wouldn’t. Stop arguing semantics. What I meant by “spamming” meteor shower is using it every time it’s off cooldown.

The ele’s going to get substantially higher kills. Why? Cause vastly more powerful AOE that’s why. What about say, a rifle warrior? Or actually, any warrior that is not using hammer?

You don’t see how this would imbalance the classes? Without a massive massive nerf to AOE there’s no way all classes would have their own niche in WvW. Some people are going to rack in 30 kills per fight while others rack in…like 2.

I’ll also mention that plenty of people on youtube have won 5v20’s…yes against bad players but do you really expect to wikittenv20 vs good players? Anyhow, Flanking 20 with 5 guys isn’t exactly “Fantastic tactics” that let’s you deserve to kill all of them. It’s one of the most basic military maneuvers there is.

Alrighty there arm chair commander, I’m guessing you’ve never payed attention to DAoC (which is where this whole system of PVP came from). Anyway, lets look at some of your points. A sniper warrior, if speced right, can do some serious aoe with Crack Shot trait and all of his skills. Does he have a ground target aoe? Not at all, but lining up a kill shot to hit 3+ players and possibly downing all of them is > meteor shower, especially if those players were trying to revive someone. Also have you seen what happens to most staff eles when someone starts to put damage into them? It nearly shuts them down or forces them to burn utilities/attunements to stay alive.

Next up I said ‘good’ tactics not fantasic tactics. But lets look at the little scenario I set up. People standing on a door waiting for it to fall are not using good tactics. In a siege I’d say using ‘good’ tactics would be setting up a small defense point with an AC or ballista to cover it while knocking down the wall or door. There are many ways to set this up, however what usually happens is people take the path of least resistance. Thats the ‘bad’ tactic.

Before I describe the merits of a flanking maneuver and its effectiveness I’ll just ask you to glance over this link and maybe you’ll see that theres a little more that goes into maneuvers and planning for them…especially a flanking maneuver.

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm34-130.pdf

Lastly the question about how 5,000 men could take out 200,000. I’d say most of it would depend on the terrain they were fighting in and how long the 5,000 had time to prepare it. Now if you’re talking about 5,000 dudes standing with their assault rifles aimed at 200,000 dudes, then thats another story. But I guarantee you they’d do a whole lot more damage if the 200,000 dudes had their backs to the 5,000 and didn’t know they were there. But since there hasn’t been a real open field battle like that since WWII its a moot point (I don’t count Desert Storm since our tanks could accurately target theirs from 5-6 times their effective range as well as our Abrams/A-10s having depleted Uranium weaponry. )

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Pulling stealthed players still works just fine.

If you’re separated more than 600 meters before you make the pull, it will fall off. That’s the leashing distance for the DoT.

Yea, it worked fine for me after another test. The thief that I tested it with probably backed away too far or something. And people are dodging a lot more as well =P

Forgot one thing, Hammer 2. If I have quickness (from Mesmer or from sigil of rage proc) and I try to hit anything other than a char or norn, the explosion happens over their head. Also if I am on a small incline they have to be a tall norn for it to land. Needs the same love they gave Greatsword 3.

Obtena.7952:

Dynnen.6405:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Dynnen.6405:

3) GS 5 not affecting players in stealth anymore

What?

It will do damage to the target, but not apply the dot that does damage and allows you to pull them back to you.

In some cases, couldn’t they still be in stealth if you did pull them? If so, how could you see if the pull worked or not?

Overall, I think the state of Guardians is quite good. We have various good builds for any content and there is a consistent desirability for one or more Guardians in a team. Picking particular issues with weapon skills is a narrow assessment for the overall state. I would think that’s probably why we aren’t the focus of many changes for each patch. .

Partied with a thief from another server. Ill try it again with another thief and a mesmer if I can find one.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Dynnen.6405:

3) GS 5 not affecting players in stealth anymore

What?

It will do damage to the target, but not apply the dot that does damage and allows you to pull them back to you.

Celly.5912:

I agree with all except the AoE cap partially; I think it also promotes interesting play and tactics (as siege weapons don’t adhere to this cap), while I agree it does indeed not reward smaller groups.

What I find frustrating as well is that, if you spend an hour trebbing a keep, you don’t get any rewards while someone walking up to the lordroom and standing in the circle for 1 second gets gold reward.

In short: individual players don’t get rewarded enough based on actual contribution to the fight. This also goes in sPvP where you can hold off 2v1 for 5 minutes and not get any rank points.

Doesn’t siege cap at 10 players?

Teamkiller.4315:

At their peak, I have enjoyed Shadowbane, DaoC, and Warhammer more than GW2 but given the curent populations, those aren’t really options.

I’d like to point out that because of WuvWuv’s substantially higher population, they are most likely satisfying the majority of those who want open world pvp and those who hate zerging are an outspoken minority.

I want tweaks to wvw too, but don’t make it so that elite 5 mans can just farm zergs.

Removing AOE caps would further unbalance classes. That ele spamming meteor shower? Yeah way more effective than that poor shortbow ranger.

First off, you can’t spam meteor shower, secondly the shortbow ranger isn’t meant to be an aoe weapon, and third you can dodge out of damage which balances out a lot of issues with damage. Un-capping the AOE would do a lot to balance the game. Look at it like this. 5 players flank 20 players attacking a tower. The five players hit them hard and knock a few down. The twenty players turn and hit them and the 5 players drop quickly.

Why would something like this happen? This is the reason. A 20 player team can put their damage into 100% of the 5 player team. However the 5 player team can put their damage into 25% of the 20 man team. Not only does this not make sense at all, its a drastic imbalance and punishes the players using good tactics while rewarding those making mistakes.

I was quite disappointed to see that Guards weren’t getting any love this patch or even mentioned as needed fixing. I love the class, but there are some things that need to be addressed.

1) Scepter 1
2) Sword 3
3) Shield CD compared to other shield classes.
4) Zeal/Radiance tree traits/stat allocations (especially the GM traits)
5) 4 second daze that thieves can steal from us
6) Hammer 2 needs to be adjusted just like Greatsword 3.

(EDIT: Removed the GS5 bug, added #6)

Merkenary.9860:

Dynnen.6405:

No one is going to mention the ADQQBsty ‘Zamboni of Death’ from last night?! ><

FINE! I hate you all =*(

Sorry man on BP the only AD I noticed were the ones we ran over while fighting Sekz and Pk. We would have braked for your Zamboni, but then we would have been hit by Sekz mac truck – plus the ice is further north not outside of hills.

Fun fights in BP bl with Ebay there’s a really impressive engineer in Pk – Human think he was wearing crafted gear used every ability at some point – and in CoT – Charr used flamethrower, and gear shield from what I saw.

Also think I ran into Archer if it was your mesmer darn you can spam confusion. Couldn’t figure out how to take you out without killing myself – well solo.

Just wondering, are you talking about the time when you killed us while we were fighting SEKS? Or the time prior to that where we killed 20+ as you were falling back from a SEKS group? Either time you are talking about was after 10 of our group logged for the night and there was 9 of us left.

Soul Evil.2734:

Dynnen.6405:

No one is going to mention the ADQQBsty ‘Zamboni of Death’ from last night?! ><

FINE! I hate you all =*(

Obviously non-factors….

Try harder.

You’re right, I think we should bring our 17-20 out again tonight…

No one is going to mention the ADQQBsty ‘Zamboni of Death’ from last night?! ><

FINE! I hate you all =*(

Know whats great about cybering 1v1 with ECHO Mesmers? It quickly turns into a 5some, just sayin.

Usually the BLs. More room to maneuver and flank.

Walabone.6713:

Ouch, everyone be hatin’ on my level of inebriation when I posted last night. Or jealous? Or mad? I wasn’t even on my main and we were still wrecking face all day in EBay’s BL. Only reason we ever died was because we were outnumbered 2-1 or Ebay decided to play Horde mode with us by respawning in wave after wave after wave and throwing themselves onto our swords.

Only guild on EBay I have any respect for is Sekz. I’d like to say pK too, but I’ve only fought them when they’ve had 3x our numbers so I can’t really say for sure how good they are, though they moved really well as a unit. ECHO has some good players, but they have no honor in battle, in my experience, so I don’t respect them.

Archer.1658:

Walabone.6713:

Thank you to everyone who came to our St. Patrick’s Day Crawl! And a special thanks to Ebay for all the badges! I think my K/D spread was like 150-5; I kinda felt a little embarrassed for dying that much to baddies. Hopefully my server won’t think less of me

You shouldn’t be speaking, just ask Snacks from your guild what happened after he challenged me, (all due to respect for actually accepting but meh). So let me know when you wanna fight

LAWL. I hear you’re a confusion Mesmer baddie. You play the most broken class setup in the game and you brag about how good you are? Ha! Don’t make me laugh! How much skill does it take to stack confusion? (About as much as it takes to spam Heartseeker or Cloak and Dagger on a thief: None!)

Meh. I’ll still beat you – I’m better than Snacks (no offense, bro! <3).

Only outnumbered 2-1 and only 150 kills? Get to the 3-1 level and 400+ kills and then you can start moving that scale away from the ‘think less of you’ side. But too be honest on a good initiate from ADQQBSty we knock down about 5-10 within a few seconds which evens the numbers out a bit.

Un-capping AOE would fix a lot of zerging.

Sword 3 does great damage if the target is right in front of you and not moving. The projectiles lock onto the targets current location and fires it only there. If the target is running sideways past 300 range it will miss 90% of the time. Its one of the problems with the sword that I was hoping was going to be mentioned in the state of the game video from a few days ago, but guards aren’t getting any love.

When Im running my burst/survival build with sword and torch my sword 3 can typically hit for 2.5-3.5k damage.

1) Un-cap aoe/boons
– Forces zergs to be aware of their surroundings
– Would balance the damage output of small man vs large man fights
* In a pitched battle between a five man and a 20 man, each player of the 20 man can produce damage against 100% of the 5 man. However the 5 man can only produce damage against 25% of the 20 man.
– With aoe from zergs being such a larger threat to enemy zergs fights would be more about maneuvering/tactics rather than sheer numbers.

2) Increase the size of the WvW maps.
– With more distance between defense points fights in open field between zergs would be more dynamic.
– Siege weapons placed in defense points (towers/keeps) should not be able to hit other defense points. This would make sieges more dynamic as well

3) Culling
– Work in progress.

For Faux Sake.8457:

Dynnen.6405:

For Faux Sake.8457:

Dynnen.6405:

Also ya know what Faux (yes I know how it is pronounced), your name looks like you’re trying to bypass the language filter…

….. MOAR BRAINZ….

Does my name offend you? Sorry for having offended your delicate feelings.

While you’re thumping your chest, keeping that testosterone pumping, we’ll still be defending what we have and taking what we can. We’ve lost a few times tonight as well as a group, but you won’t hear our excuses here. Here’s a shout-out for the [BURN] guild for especially intense fights.

Dynnen, if you want to QQ on the official forums for wiping a few times, then I look forward to a week more of your whiny posts because it happens to everyone regardless of which side they are on.

For faux sakes For Faux Sakes…I was pointing out the pun and taking a cheap shot since all puns are bad. You are right, I was whining. However you not knowing what I was whining about kinda depresses me. I was whining about the massive damage imbalance between large and small groups. But there I go assuming that a member from a zergy guild would really understand those kinda mechanics.

EDIT: Do you see how bad that pun is at the top of the comment? See how terrible it is? ><

That was pretty bad :P You haven’t seen zergy guilds though. Just wait until you guys get matched against an opponents like [KISS] and [KREW]. When you’ve killed 50 players with 20 people trying to reenact the Spartan’s famous last stand and are still being flooded by a sea of red that only has to worry about winning through attrition, then you’ve seen something that qualifies as a “zergy guild”. There’s a slight difference between being organized with larger numbers and just being zergy. If you beat a group with larger numbers all with different guild tags over their heads, you’d say that they sucked and had no skill. Since you lost to a group with larger numbers all with the same guild tag over their head, you’re saying that they suck and have no skill.

Are you starting to see the issue with this argument? No matter what happens, the other group has no skill, your group is awesome despite being outnumbered, and everyone with a red name is some idiot mashing buttons hoping something hits.

I understand fully what it’s like to lose to greater numbers. It’s not like we run in full force 24/7. A majority of the time, we are just small groups coming to each other’s aid when needed. We’ve all had more than our fair share of small group vs larger group battles. Assuming otherwise is unfair to anyone in a large guild.

True, good points (especially the one about more larger zergs being out there), and I’m glad that you do run around in small groups. While I agree with your points my original post was about the specific tactics used in those fights and the numbers we were having to deal with. Maybe its from how I consider a portal effective. The ones we saw at that camp was not effectively done, but in the end turned out just fine due to game mechanics. Dropping a portal right in front of 2 ballistas with 8 other people dropping AOE prior to players coming through should NEVER work. Players should evaporate when the pour in. In the other situation the portal opening was literally 1200 range away and we were starring right at it. We found the portal and started aoeing on top. Again it proved effective due to game mechanics.

Thats what I was saying was durpy, not you specifically (although it degraded into that). I have to take off my shoes to count the number of durpy mistakes I’ve made tonight, but I’ve made them. Like I said, I see your points, but do you see the ones I’m trying to make? “The damage balance between large and small groups” and “dropping portal openings in LOS of the bad guys, and portal exits in front of ready siege engines/aoe should be punished”. I’m curious to hear what you say about those two points.

For Faux Sake.8457:

Dynnen.6405:

Also ya know what Faux (yes I know how it is pronounced), your name looks like you’re trying to bypass the language filter…

….. MOAR BRAINZ….

Does my name offend you? Sorry for having offended your delicate feelings.

While you’re thumping your chest, keeping that testosterone pumping, we’ll still be defending what we have and taking what we can. We’ve lost a few times tonight as well as a group, but you won’t hear our excuses here. Here’s a shout-out for the [BURN] guild for especially intense fights.

Dynnen, if you want to QQ on the official forums for wiping a few times, then I look forward to a week more of your whiny posts because it happens to everyone regardless of which side they are on.

For faux sakes For Faux Sakes…I was pointing out the pun and taking a cheap shot since all puns are bad. You are right, I was whining. However you not knowing what I was whining about kinda depresses me. I was whining about the massive damage imbalance between large and small groups. But there I go assuming that a member from a zergy guild would really understand those kinda mechanics.

EDIT: Do you see how bad that pun is at the top of the comment? See how terrible it is? ><