Guild Wars 2

Good PvE forces players to do what their class does best to the point of extreme difficulty and what their class doesn’t do well to a level of moderate difficulty. To do this boss fights need to have multi-stage fights. Unfortunately for this game there is no clear class roles and boss fights are just ‘dodge this aoe’ in dungeons and in fractals its just ‘dodge this aoe that 1 shots you’.

Difficulty doesn’t come from unforgiving mechanics like getting one shot, it comes to responding to various stresses put on your class and your skills.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I whole-heartedly disagree. Difficulty does not equal fun or replay value.

First, lemme start off with this; right outta the gate…casuals are that catalyst that has lead to what is wrong with gaming today. The idea that gaming companies are actually putting tons of money into Triple A titles with the sole reason of ‘attracting casuals’ is disgusting. Other MMOs have done this and its ruined the game. For gaming to get back to where it needs corporations need to quit chasing the casuals.

Second there are plenty of other single player games that casuals can play casually that don’t bring down multiplayer games to what Guild Wars 2 has become. For us hardcore players that enjoy min-maxing and a challenge to the game they are playing, we are running out of options for MMOs, FPS, RTS…nearly every genre.

Btw when I refer to ‘casuals’ I mean someone who hops on and just lollygags around through the game looking at it like a theme park. Casual has nothing to do with how much time you spend in a game, just like hardcore has nothing to do with time. It has everything to do with playing as effectively as possible (min/maxing), and playing 110% each time you go into pve/pvp. However ‘hardcore’ has become polluted with ‘try-hards’ in the last few years. Try-hards are people who only play the strongest specs for the strongest classes and use that to carry themselves. Sometimes casuals can be try-hards.

Anyway enough with the terminology thesis…please watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

inb4 casuals have rights too!

Arken.3725:

Yamsandjams.3267:

I didn’t read all the above posts, but it’s worth noting that the healing provided is per target hit. As such, if you’re cleaving people with your attacks, the healing effect multiplies.

This can make certain CC abilities like bane signet, signet of wrath, zealot’s embrace, ring of warding, and binding blade to be very important when using that trait. For instance, if you trap a few people in ring of warding, you can use whirling wrath to gain a lot of healing.

I find it’s also sometimes useful just for being a bit more tanky while also dealing good damage with the greatsword, but I usually don’t go that deep into the zeal tree with the builds I like to use.

I understand it’s provided per hit, i’m suggesting that be changed so it doesn’t become too strong. The example I was using was if you hit two people with your Auto-attack, instead of getting healed twice, you get healed once.

Well we wouldn’t want Anet to ‘warrior’ the kitten out of our class do we?

styx.7294:

Oozo.7856:

foofad.5162:

Oozo.7856:

foofad.5162:

I don’t even know where to start. This kind of hypersensitive criticism is unnecessary and unwarranted. He misspoke. Get over it. This is not front page news. People misspeak all the time. All the time. If you can speak at all, you have misspoken before and will again. This doesn’t warrant a thread, much less discussion.

Did you even read the post above yours before you launched into your own hypersensitive criticism?

It was supposed to be a joke :[ I thought the italics nailed it.

The hypersensitive criticism in this thread is approaching dangerous levels.

Do what you always do, plague form and spam blinds until it passes.

^ hehehehe ^

Obtena.7952:

Beta is a testing phase … obviously you haven’t learned that the fact they changed it to lower HP after testing means that Guardians with high HP had an unintended impact to the game.

Theres a ton of problems with the Guardian, one of the lynch pin problems is the HP. In fact its that beta testing that you mention that crippled the Guardian along with stealth nerfs to our class (retal nerf, future vigor nerf).

This is the biggest Charlie Foxtrot I’ve seen in a long long time

I just wanna know how a spammable execute made it out of pre-production in this game. Some producer failed miserably weeding that out of the team working on weapons =/

Remember to have at least two of the holy trinity movement abilities for Guardians. GS 3, Sw 2, or Judge’s Intervention. If you’re rolling Hammer/GS a meditation survival build is usually pretty effective. I run 0/15/30/20/5 or 10/0/30/25/5, both work pretty well for me

Doesn’t matter if you boycott gem purchases. Money that is sent to Anet through the gem store is funneled to NCSoft, and they send it to where they want it to go.

The only good racial elite is snow leopard

We can argue the effectiveness of spamming two all we want, but I think we can all agree having a spammable execute ability is kittened.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I didn’t read all the above posts, but it’s worth noting that the healing provided is per target hit. As such, if you’re cleaving people with your attacks, the healing effect multiplies.

This can make certain CC abilities like bane signet, signet of wrath, zealot’s embrace, ring of warding, and binding blade to be very important when using that trait. For instance, if you trap a few people in ring of warding, you can use whirling wrath to gain a lot of healing.

I find it’s also sometimes useful just for being a bit more tanky while also dealing good damage with the greatsword, but I usually don’t go that deep into the zeal tree with the builds I like to use.

Thats the motto for this class: “This works great only when combined with other abilities.”

Wondrouswall.7169:

Don’t worry guys, I’m sure Anet is on it. Just look at their office space that is dedicated to the Engineer class!

Yea because engineers have been fine since around launch, lol

Meta means that you can’t balance kitten. I kittening hate that word with a passion. In DAoC you had balancing patches every 1-3 weeks. In this there has been stupid mechanics that have survived for nearly half a year…if not longer.

Another thing that I’ve always wondered…is it really night time in the instance? My eternity is Sunrise just as much as it is Twilight doing fractal 50s and the dungeons that I occasionally do.

If you watched that entire video that was posted you can see how little the class he understands outside of how it looks on paper. Having just one condi doesn’t work in any game mode so why is he even mentioning it…if you got off your horse once and awhile Mr White Knight you might eventually see how the flaws in the production of this game led to a poor foundation to build on. Also the patches to the game during the 3 open beta weekends were the worst thing got happen to this game…even worse than the 6.5 months of warrior buffs.

Also you signature…Aiming solely for the end game isn’t like renting a movie and skipping to the end. Its like going to a Mongolian BBQ joint and skipping all the useless crap you could fill your bowl with and sticking to the meat and veggies. The end game is where the game developers are supposed to show us an extremely challenging pve game, or a very dynamic pvp game. Currently we have wvw thats plagued by: aoe cap, small maps, condi spam, and a pretty big list of other problems. PvE that mainly focuses around moving through the dungeon as fast as possible, finding some trick to beating the boss, or getting 1 shot in lvl 50 fractals. And a completely broken PvP game. So when people like me play through an MMO and get the enjoyment out of it and expect to find something difficult and challenging at the end of the rabbit hole, you should understand that world exploration, item skin grinds, and massive zerg pve events was not what we were looking for.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Bash.7291:

“After it takes a few blocks, then it explodes” …no… no it doesn’t work like that. You would THINK that someone that works at Anet that posts a guide would actually KNOW WHAT THE CLASS SKILLS DO.

You forget that Anet doesn’t play Guardians.

Checkmate!

laharl.8435:

Dynnen.6405:

1) Burning DPS build is pretty straight forward…take all the burning traits
2) This video shows how little they know about how this game actually works.
3) Sigil of night is really powerful?……………………………………………………………………………wow

Hmm, this video made me think they’re actually starting to figure the game out. And 10% damage increase from a sigil? Yeah, that’s pretty kitten good.

So…you swap it out when night time comes everytime? I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or serious =P

Its called throwing you a bone, lol

Brando.1374:

Oozo.7856:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

correct, if we have 2+ then yes.
but even in a gvg setting, we needed 3 necro’s to be able to even dent the removal.

recently we tried some GvG’s with only 2 necro’s and we got smashed by EP and tied with Hope.

Have you guys tried to using venom sharing thief? It doesn’t matter if the venoms get applied from a power class or not since the dmg is based on the necro that spreads it and it gives a ton of condition coverage.

No we have not, most of out thieves are power.
it would be interesting to try though.

Look at any of Oozo’s vids when theres a venom share thief…its un-real

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

5k dps from conditions hmm. let me see how a necro will even be able to do this.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAroic0UebCB6BAAAgYkCAIYoUAApDA-z0BB4iBkkGk8AITtIas1gFRjVJjIqWpELAACwMLzAY8iX8iX8inZOzZOzZOzSBAx0I-w

1984 condi dmg =
142 bleed/tick
824 burning/tick
278 psn/tick
1238 terror/tick

even with 10 stacks of bleed thats only 3806 dps (this includes terror) without terror it is only 2568dps

you will need at least 18-20 of bleeds + burning/psn/terror (2840+824+278+1238= 5180)

I wish my necro can do 5k dps all the time but in reality, mine just gets over the 3k mark on a good rotation without the conditions being removed.

If one person does it, think what a group can do. It comes down to overwhelming the condi removal. Like Orion used to say “Bring 2 necros or none at all”

Tim.6450:

Dynnen, where do you get that 5k?? Because the maximum base pvp condition damage (without might stacks) value is 1737. To get 5k damage numbers you need like 25 bleeds+ perma burn + perma poison + perma terror, 25 stacks of torment while moving or 25 stacks of confusion while attacking. If you get such numbers (which is impossible to achieve solo due to low condition duration is in such cases) then you deserve to die.

No your math is more off than mine is so you can get something kitten near 5k, and reapply it very quickly. So yes it can kittening condi burst you clown, roaming groups do it a lot

I don’t wanna get into a condi vs power debate…but…the fact that they are doing stuff like this instead of fixing Guardian is a step in the WRONG direction ><

1) Burning DPS build is pretty straight forward…take all the burning traits
2) This video shows how little they know about how this game actually works.
3) Sigil of night is really powerful?……………………………………………………………………………wow

Brando.1374:

Dynnen.6405:

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

Burst?
7k backstab is burst.

it takes a bit of time to be able to stack enough conditions to compare. (also hope they dont get removed)

One grenade poison grenade with shrapnel grenade gives you around 5k damage a second. Thats not even including the rest of engie weapons/perplexity runes. Condi mesmers can do about the same. Condi warriors can keep 10+ bleed stacks, constant burning, constant torment, and any condis on weapon swap up constantly. And necros…well yea necros. When you can apply enough conditions where you get hit with 5k damage a second its burst, thats the ‘meta’. Theres no counter play to conditions in this GD game other than having more people that can clear that they have that can apply. Condition combat was not really considered for pvp, by that I mean actual mechanics of application and removal. Theres zero counter play to conditions because there are so little weapon abilities that remove conditions. Thus you get pigeon holed into specific specs to counter condition damage instead of being able to remove it when they apply it.

The counter play that NEEDS to be here would require a lot of rebuilding. There were key structural problems to this game that weren’t fixed in production, and now the house that is guild wars 2 is crumbling. I’m not talking about player base here, I’m talking about people realizing how broken this game is while the devs sit back and say “Well its the forums, people come here to kitten about the game, lololols”

What you think this is ESO?

Lol, the problem with condis is they don’t tickle, they burst…really hard

To me it seems that theres a soft cap on toughness for Guardian at 1850 toughness. Anymore than that and you don’t see too much benefit and anything less you evaporate pretty quickly.

1) Fix Weapons
2) Lower cooldowns on a lot of insane cooldown abilities
3) Fix trait lines

Nearly every part of this class needs to be re-worked. Unless you run shouts only and never swap out of staff while you are zerging around that is

Virtue of Resolve, Regen, Empower, Aegis heal on detonate, dodge roll heal…theres plenty of things that heal on a gaurdian =D

Oozo.7856:

Dalanor.5387:

killahmayne.9518:

I faced a necro that with one auto-attack of his scepter put weakness, 3 stacks of bleed, burning and torment.

So you didn’t even realized that the necro used Death shroud to put torment on you because you know … scepter don’t have that.

I’m seriously fed up with these misinformed non-skilled whiners on this forum about necromancers. Learn to play. Dude.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Torment

^ Lol ^

So…….ESO till CU?

style.6173:

@OP:

We are in a condi meta. Everyone knows this.

‘Meta’ [met-uh]: Latin

Meaning – We can’t balance kitten

1st, I’d actually like to see some damage data.
2nd, warrior weapons are largely fine. Now look at Guardian scepter 1/2, sword auto attack 3 along with sword 2 damage and sword 3, staff 2, hammer auto attack 3 taking two years to cast, hammer 2 not tracking on the X-Axis, hammer 5 requiring you to stop running, focus/shield 5 and the warding spells on staff/hammer having INSANE cooldown timers, shield 5 not actually blocking projectiles, torch 5 not clearing condis on the caster…I mean come on =P

Mightymealworm.8409:

Why are you all arguing about whining or not whining in a dead thread? This whole last page is so full of… Well, I’ll cut myself off there. Post all you want in this thread but just know that making a more current and constructive thread would be more in your self interests.

Or you could have read my “Real Talk: Weapons” threads, those were constructive and informative explaining what exactly was wrong with the weapons/symbols of the Guardian.

If you think the devs have listened to the community at all you’re playing a different game than I am

unleashed.8679:

Dynnen.6405:

Problem with Condi:

1) Stacking
2) “Condi Burst”, they are damage over time, not damage up front…except in this game
3) Not enough smaller condi clear abilities, specifically on weapons
4) 1 stat to increase the damage, the rest can go into defense traits
5) Some classes have an insane amount of it on weapons, while others dont

Its a completely broken system

1) yes stacking is a problem, especially the cap on every condition (but i doubt you are talking about that)
2) They do damage over time, they don’t deal 5k+ damage at once
3) How much cleans do you want? Nearly every class has ways to handle conditions, even more cleans will make condition duration even more useless, which leads to …
4) Conditions are effected by Condidamage, duration (which however is not an armor stat) and a bit by precision (apply on-crit effects). Because of the damage over time aspect you also need more defense then a direct damage class, because you have to survive longer, because the damage is building up. If there would be a zerker equivalent (condi damage, duration and precision) people would use it as well, but there isn’t such a stat combination available.
5) Every class has a condition build (except of guardians) there are weapons designed around conditions as well as some designed around direct damage.

And no it is not a broken system. The only thing that went wrong is the condition cap, that needs to go.

You should explain the condi cap since I’m not entirely sure what you are talking about.

What I’m talking about signet of spite, longbow 5 on warrior, staff/scepter on mesmer/necro. If weapons can apply conditions then they should have some form of removal.
1) Being able to apply a massive stack of any condition is a really bad way to balance damage over time abilities. It changes how the idea DOTs should work.
2) Wrong, grenade engie/condi necro/condi warrior can easily apply 3-5k worth of damage every second in a very short time. The problem with this is that the person receiving the conditions usually has to pigeon hole themselves into condi clear.
3) Like I said, theres too much “CURE ALL CONDIS” rather than a weapon that cures a condi on a moderately low cooldown.
4) Condi duration is a decent thing to have but if the condis are getting cleared and you are re-applying them quickly like you are supposed to you can quickly overwhelm someone. Like the old GvG leader of GF used to say “We bring two necros or none at all”. You burst overwhelm their condi clears and they are stuck getting their HP melted away while receiving extra damage on top of that.
5) Ok? =P

The idea with condis is that the damage over time is that you apply the condis, the victim of the condis cleans them as part of the counter play, then you work to re-apply them. However the counter play ends after the first clear due to how gw2’s condi clears work.

Look at what happens when a guy can’t clear his condis:

You can also look at any of these Necro condi vids on that channel and see some insane condi damage that is being overwhelmed by 1-2 people =P

Oozo.7856:

Dynnen.6405:

Problem with Condi:

1) Stacking
2) “Condi Burst”, they are damage over time, not damage up front…except in this game
3) Not enough smaller condi clear abilities, specifically on weapons
4) 1 stat to increase the damage, the rest can go into defense traits
5) Some classes have an insane amount of it on weapons, while others dont

Its a completely broken system

These cause problems in smaller scale fights (especially the ability to stat extremely defensively while retaining excellent DPS via conditions), but Anet thinks everything is fine because conditions are considered to be weak by large guild groups running a ton of group cleansing.

Dat large scale balancing hit Guards with a stealth nerf…kittening retal nerf =*(

Basically in spvp/wvw roaming you need at least two of the Holy Trinity of Movement for dps Guardians to function well. Greatsword 3, Sword 2, Judge’s Intervention with meditation cooldown. Pick two and your mobility is ok, pick three and its better but still far from other classes.

Guardian burst comes every 45 seconds and requires you to not be looking at us

Every other dps spec (including some condi specs) can burst every 15-20 seconds. So when you talk about Guard burst, the way to counter it is one dodge roll OR improved situational awareness then they are easily telegraphed for the next 45 seconds.

Harbinger and Zelcova are right. Soft CC is our biggest problem. Defender’s flame being changed is one of many good ideas ranging from lowering the cooldown of Glacial Hammer from 30 down 10-15 (thus making it viable) to combining our symbols traits and making a new one that adds 1 second of chill per symbol pulse that way it improves the zeal trait line (which is terrible right now) and adds some more dynamic play to the Guardian. The only soft CC we currently have is water combat downed state…that doesn’t make sense considering our only hard CCs are either: telegraphed, long cooldowns, on weapons that don’t work properly, requires the enemy target to run into the ward, or a combination of these.

The problem is we’ve been voicing these concerns for over a year now only getting small buffs to meditations and stealth nerfs. So I don’t know what we can do anymore to explain how pigeon holed/far behind Guardians currently are

Problem with Condi:

1) Stacking
2) “Condi Burst”, they are damage over time, not damage up front…except in this game
3) Not enough smaller condi clear abilities, specifically on weapons
4) 1 stat to increase the damage, the rest can go into defense traits
5) Some classes have an insane amount of it on weapons, while others dont

Its a completely broken system

You might be right, but personally if someone is saying something I am working on I show them that they are incorrect. However there hasn’t been any of that. I understand he can’t respond to every individual post, but when people are saying very general things like “Our weapons are kittened up!” or “Condi guardian needs help!” or “Our Zeal/Radiance trait lines need to be re-worked” or “Please combine symbol traits and clean up our traitlines!” or “Our 30 point pure of voice trait gets out done by 15 trait points and a war horn for warriors!” you have to respond either defending or attacking those points.

Why they haven’t? I don’t know, but I do know a little PR goes a long kittening way.

I have no idea why you are white knighting the kitten outta these people. Lol, Guard has had so many things wrong with it for a very long time and there has been nothing done to fix it even though we collectively have had many good suggestions. A few ridiculous ones, but a lot of good ones.

So I salute you white knights! Keep defending the lords that look down on you as peasants!

Obtena.7952:

Dynnen.6405:

So what incentive do I have to not call them out on mechanic mistakes and not fulfilling statements made like “I’ll come back and we’ll talk”? Its not an isolated incident, its a pattern.

The incentive to not appear like a child that doesn’t get it’s way? I don’t think anyone is pleased how this December dev interaction turned out, but if we are mature about it, future interactions can proceed in a positive manner, or at all.

Frankly, based on the PLAYER’S own feedback on what professions need help, the last thing we need is our own profession supporters creating an even more toxic communication to Anet devs by acting out. Time to grow up a bit.

They DON’T communicate is my point. I’m trying to be passive aggressive because specifically pointing out issues that the devs have had with interacting with the community as well as development/production with in their own game will get you suspended. Even if its legitimate and not trolly, just direct with suggestions on improvements gets suspension

But to the point that I’m a child acting like they didn’t get their way…I guess I can kinda see your point. However thinking back on my posts made months ago and not hearing anything or seeing anything from the devs for OTHER player’s posts I have kind of devolved.

So how about this:

I find it quite frustrating that a developer would suggest we could discuss something about how a change to our class would effect us, then not talk to us and make the change either way. Especially since that change is made it basically a single retaliation hit instead and was basically a stealth nerf to a trait that no one used anyway. Speaking of retaliation damage, why was it nerfed but our damage not increased to compensate for the damage loss since our class gains most from retaliation since its built into a lot of our fields/virtues.

Does that sound less kitteny? I hope so especially since I’ve voiced this months ago

foofad.5162:

Dynnen.6405:

You’re right. I shouldn’t hold anyone accountable to what they say they are going to do.

If you want to hold someone accountable, be my guest. Consolidate your opinions, voice them in a logical way that it backed up if possible with examples of wrongdoing and constructive ways of improving for the future.

Here’s what you’ve actually said.

Dynnen.6405:

Lonely…….soooo lonely…..

Dynnen.6405:

ROFL

Dynnen.6405:

I read this every once and and it still cracks me up XD

And hey, you may have actually done so at some point earlier in the thread. If you did, fantastic. That’s where it ends. At this point, almost no one – not a developer, whose time is valuable, nor a concerned player – is going to dig through twelve pages, most of which after page three or four is whining. Spamming an ancient thread which is clearly dead with one-line sarcastic bumps doesn’t do anyone any good, least of all the developers you are trying to influence.

Dynnen.6405:

I’ll tell you what. I will stop beating this ‘accountability’ dead horse if you stop beating the ‘condi guardian works’ horse.

I’m not bargaining. I’m telling you that you aren’t being helpful, even if you think you are somehow.

I was being helpful about…4 months ago doing exactly what you recommended. Discussing issues and improvements that could be made. But they are listening about as much as they did in gw1. And talking about strawman…you only bring up the things that I’ve been saying to poke fun and call out the devs, not my weapons suggestion/trait line suggestions/ability suggestions all with reasoning to them and balance in mind. To be honest most of those were outside of this forum post, so if you looked at this one specific situation without looking outside and using that to pass judgement..go ahead =P

Obtena.7952:

foofad.5162:

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

Bump … I’m not impressed by the behaviour exhibited in this thread by Anet or the players, but at least Anet knows enough to drop it and move on to the next thing.

Oh, BTW … notice that Guardians are next to last on the vote for what profs need help? Another reason for people to drop the childish behaviour and kitteny attitudes if we want devs to look into this profession with some input from the players.

Bottomline: we aren’t an approachable community with all the people acting out.

We were approachable for nearly a year, we made suggestions and they didn’t do any of them. They said they were going to talk about them with us, then made the changes anyway. You act like this ‘discussion’ is just now starting, but we’ve been pointing out significant problems with the class since beta.

So what incentive do I have to not call them out on mechanic mistakes and not fulfilling statements made like “I’ll come back and we’ll talk”? Its not an isolated incident, its a pattern.

How about this, 20 point trait in Survivalist tree that gives you a certain amount of damage increased if you are NOT running a pet? That way players can avoid being punished for having a pet when the situation makes pets useless

You’re right. I shouldn’t hold anyone accountable to what they say they are going to do. No I did read the thread you posted (about 6 months ago) and its a decent guide, theres one problem however. Its pretty easy to identify what increases burning on targets and put them all into a build and increasing proc rate with things like scepter/torch/symbols. But the problem isn’t with your build, its with the class. Condi guardian is useless in pvp/wvw and even more useless in pve. Not to mention there are plenty of other classes that do it better…way better.

Another problem is theres only been bones (Supreme Justice) thrown to Guardians along with stealth nerfs (retal nerf but no change to Guardian damage), its pretty kittened not only from a balance standpoint but from a development/production standpoint.

I mean we’ve been telling them that there needs to be other ways for us to apply DIFFERENT conditions for a long long time. Permeating Wrath needs to activate on the target not on us so things like staff and scepter can utilize it…although staff is only 600 range and scepter only lands on targets in 300 range so maybe that permeating wrath change isn’t needed (MUCH SARCASM). However there are so many other problems with the Guardian that this is a low priority imo.

I’ll tell you what. I will stop beating this ‘accountability’ dead horse if you stop beating the ‘condi guardian works’ horse. And I do apologize for the ‘straw manning’ there I had no idea we were in a debate when I was cracking a joke. But now I see the error of my ways that we are in fact in a debate =P

foofad.5162:

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

No, the devs kittenty choices are the reason devs don’t interact with us. I’d be embarrassed too.

Besides prior to this we were all cute/cuddly/nice. Now…not so much

Btw, u might wanna take that burn build thing outta the signature. Its hard to take you seriously with that there =(

JonPeters.5630:

Hello Guardians,

So I wanted to talk about the bigger discussion topics for the Dec changes for you as well.

Shattered Aegis
As soon as I get in on Monday, I’ll post the damage #s on this and the power scaling. I think a meaning ful discussion about this change is going to require that. One danger here is that big WvW zergs using this could be really powerful, but I will say that the numbers are decent.

Supreme Justice and Kindled Zeal
I feel like there is a build here, but TBH I haven’t gotten it to work in our internal testing yet. This is as good a place as any to talk about stat conversion traits.

Currently they do not convert 100% of a stat because certain stat bonuses such as those from signets do not get converted. For that reason we are being conservative but normalizing all of our conversions to the follow #s for now.
Minor: 5%,7%, and 10% respectively for adept, master and grandmaster.
Major: 7%,10%, and 13% respectively for adept, master, and grandmaster.

I’m not sure this will be enough, but I do not want these traits to be overpowered as I feel they are fairly passive. That being said, I think they are good simple traits and with 12 traits per line it is absolutely fine to have some passive simple to understand traits.

Another thing about this build is that you do not have all of the information you need about this power guardian right now, but I can’t reveal more without spoilers. /tease

Symbol of Swiftness
To clarify the new Symbol of Swiftness will give you 4 seconds of Swiftness every single pulse regardless of if you have swiftness or not. This is a improvement in many situations and a slight loss in the situation where you were using the Symbol as just a one time buff. I think this makes it feel more like a Symbol, which is good. We are still discussing the idea of it being 5 seconds, but there is some danger of that going pretty high with boon duration.

Power guardian vs Condition guardian
I think Dec 10th will see the emergence of the power guardian, but I think that the condition based guardian still has a ways to go. Ultimately this is because it is hard to cover the burning and frankly you need a good reliable second or even third condition that guardians simply do not have right now. I think for those professions lacking that 3rd damage condition we are looking at supplementing them via runes and sigils rather than skills/traits right now but that won’t be something we attempt until the build that follows the Dec 10th build.

I think that is everything for guardian and hopefully you enjoyed a few half spoiler/half teases.

Thanks,

Jon

Lonely…….soooo lonely…..

There should be zero reward for taking a defense point. The only thing a defense point should do is secure an area. And if you have a larger amount of defense points your faction should get control of a pvp dungeon where you can farm you’re heart out. But no, karma trains and zerging are sooo much better

Yea, people always kitten about Guardian’s invulns, and there are two classes that have way more block/invuln time per minute, lol