Guild Wars 2

These two traits need to be combined. Its a huge trait sink to be able to apply small aoe burning in rapid succession. These two traits are focused on the same thing and need to be brought together. So far the traits are on the right track in beta, just needs a little more fine tuning =)

Amins.3710:

There are really 2 schools of thought

1) Sustain it up and either kill the 1v2’s / 1v3’s so long as you can handle a 4-5 min fight and so long as in the time it takes for that encounter, you don’t get adds….. The issue is, it’s too long and you’ll get adds… which leaves you with no escape.

2) Zerk it up – build for mobility and play an active style w/ blinds, dodges, blocks & great burst. This is a ~very~ unforgiving build as you won’t have mor than 13k hp (w/o stacks). In this build, the mobility is ABSOLUTELY there. Anyone who says different, really doesn’t play the build well. Sorry.

3 gap closers, +25% passive Speed. Yes, JI has longer cooldown, but Sword is on a pretty quick cooldown and when you learn the rotate, it’s basically a GG-escape.

The issue is, as a guardian, you need to keep your escape route in mind at all times. THAT is the single priority because it requires a target.

… if you missed the key point, here it is again: Your Escape is Reliant UPON a Target.

No Target – No Escape.

For the naysayers there – yes, if a theif or warrior is not on cooldowns, they will catch up. However, the Guardian can gain more distance in a shorter period of time over the warrior due to the “instant” nature of our escapes (minus GS Leap). From there, L2Kite / Obstruct Views.

Thief – well, burst them down

I dunno if I trust this guy’s information…

Arkinos.7245:

Getting a real ranged weapon would be nice. I personally dont like the scepter, mostly because 2 is not a reliable skill for dps.

A ranger weapon with reliable damage and some utility for kiting that doesnt have a 20s cooldown would be great

Lets fix the scepter before we start adding new crap =P

I’m hoping they decide to balance the classes based on this new spvp mode and decide to rework some of the more ‘stationary’ classes =P

Ahhh spvp, the one thing that has held the Guardian back because balance is based around point defense

I’ve started threads like this since beta version 2. There hasn’t been any response to the feedback other than forum moderators. The Guard class has received stealth nerfs (retal damage reduction, but no change in class damage), balance ‘fixes’ that made traits and skills terrible for what they are (Pure of Voice, Purging Flames) and next to no attention other than that

BUT! We’re in a good place….? I’m hoping the expac will bring changes to the guard and improve the class, otherwise you’re going to see a lot of Revnants running around and nearly zero Guards

Zoltreez.6435:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Zoltreez.6435:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Amins.3710:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Dynnen.6405:

How about we get fixes to our weapons before we go adding new kitten? After watching the utility/offense or utility/defense built into all the abilities on the new class…they better re-work some of our weapons if the ‘old-school’ classes are going to keep up

This ^.

Compared to other classes the guardian already falls behind when it comes to offensive utility & unless your using hammer or mace it can for defensive utility as well.

After looking at the rev all I can say is I hope they take a serious look at the guardian weapon skills, utilitys, elite skills & traits.

Psst – Anet says Guard in Gud Place…. since beta….

“good place” can be very vague.

Guard is good when teammates are around for you to buff or to CC/snare/chill enemies for you, however if your solo there are glaring holes in the toolkit.

They try to make up for that with making guardians extremely strong when allies are around but in the end it would be better if the guardian had tools like cripple/chill for it’s offensive spec.
Then they could adjust them without breaking them so easy.

100% this.

guardian is a 1 man killingmachine if there is at least 1 person with some worthwile roots and slows.

but alone ? we have like 5252626 bilion capclosers but they worth nothing when the enemy just runs away from us lol.

when im alone and fighting eles hunters or MESMERS !!!! the bennyhill music starts playing in a never ending loop………

This ^ is why I gave up playing the regular meditation spec & changed over to the medi burn spec.

The burst is much lower, survivability the same but it beats the ever loving $#!^ out of longbow rangers & most mesmers due to constant 800 per tick burns & poison
on weapon swap.

last time i tryed to play Condi ANYTHING in Spvp with any class conditions got removed left and right 24/7 feelt like everyone and their grand mother have infinite spammable condi removal on a 1 sec cd……and the dmg got healed back by all them regens ALSO everywhere….

that was the part when i decided i never gonna play condi builds with anything in this game…..

You had to have been activating VoJ…which you shouldn’t do in a guard burn build. One of the main problems with this game is the severe lack of counter play with condis.

funassistant.6589:

Anet will reduce WvW to pure ppt and/or roaming. Melee classes will be destroyed in large scale fights. So people wont run melee anymore! Ergo, no zergs or guilds.

Thanks Anet, like, really? This has made me so negative towards this game.

Anyone with me on the CU bandwagon?

CU bandwagon? Bro you’re about a year behind =P

Amins.3710:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Dynnen.6405:

How about we get fixes to our weapons before we go adding new kitten? After watching the utility/offense or utility/defense built into all the abilities on the new class…they better re-work some of our weapons if the ‘old-school’ classes are going to keep up

This ^.

Compared to other classes the guardian already falls behind when it comes to offensive utility & unless your using hammer or mace it can for defensive utility as well.

After looking at the rev all I can say is I hope they take a serious look at the guardian weapon skills, utilitys, elite skills & traits.

Psst – Anet says Guard in Gud Place…. since beta….

Yup, not only do they say that they believe that people posting on forums are basement dwelling nerd ragers and ‘never post any good suggestions’

How about we get fixes to our weapons before we go adding new kitten? After watching the utility/offense or utility/defense built into all the abilities on the new class…they better re-work some of our weapons if the ‘old-school’ classes are going to keep up

Ohh, that makes more sense then

Saiyan.1704:

Still funny seeing comments like, “all we have are medi and shout builds” or “We only zerg and point defense”
I know of 3 condi builds, 1 spirit burn build and 2 non spirits burn builds, all of which make great roamers and are down right op against ANY class with a 15k health pool and little to no condi removals, partly because they hope to run with a cleansing guard or mesmer/etc but those cleanse will be in zergs, not far or home.

I will say that there’s a big skill gap in medi builds..I see a lot of bad medi guards on the field. Then there’s that 10k in 5s guard that melts face. (Thief+Medi, best roam/zerg combo, imo)

Fun fact, guard can take out Lord 1v1 style. Gave my team a sweet victory, 505 to 460 a few games ago.

Are you trying to tell me that spirit weapons have a place in wvw roaming?

Based on the class mechanics Guards are only really good at two things: Zerging and Point defense so thats probably why they are ‘in a good place.’

Guards have been plagued with stealth nerfs and next to not fixes since beta where they got nerfed every patch. Are we under powered? Not really, but we’re also not that good. You get a little bit less out of the class from what you put into it which is the exact opposite of every other class except ranger, but they are getting buffed pretty hard

Guards have next to no soft CC, the best way for us to get soft CC is by putting sigils in weapons. A lack of soft CC is just one of the many problems with Guardian that have existed since beta…
Guard weapons:
Guardian scepter 1 hardly ever hitting a moving target, scepter 2 mechanics are beyond atrocious
sword auto attack chain 3rd strike misses a lot, sword 2 damage is garbage and sword 3…just needs a complete overhaul
Staff 2 going into the ground and bugging out never putting the ability on cooldown (THIS HAS BEEN THERE SINCE BETA FFS)
Hammer auto attack 3 taking two years to cast, hammer 2 not tracking on the X-Axis, Hammer 5 requiring you to stop running and cast (if you notice the Hammer 4 on warrior not only is castable on the move but since you don’t have to stop it unintentionally decreased the cast time by eliminating animation)
Focus/shield 5 and the warding spells on staff/hammer having INSANE cooldown timers
Shield 5 not actually blocking projectiles if the ability was cast before shield 5’s activation
Torch 5 not clearing condis on the caster =P
Utility skills: Consecrations are nearly useless in wvw, spirit weapons are a joke, anything that gives us mobility has insane cooldowns. Purging flames is absolutely USELESS now (person has to be humping your leg to get the condi clear instead of being able to run through it to purge them)
Traits: They need to be cleaned up…a lot Zeal is God awful and the GM traits don’t make sense. Amplified wrath completely destroys Kindred Zeal and lol @ wrathful spirits. Symbol/Spirit weapon traits need to be combined much like they did with specific warrior traits to make them more appealing. The Cooldown on shouts combined with the fix they did on pure of voice makes it a 4 point trait, not 6. Zealous blade/Glacial heart? rofl
Virtues: They are unimaginative and boring. They need more than just a faceplant on the keyboard to be effective, change the mechanics.

I would post more but I seem to have put my fist through my monitor, cheers

Zergs, they do serve a purpose. However I have a problem with them and that is inherent in the game design and mechanics.

Maps: Too small…they need to be larger so the zergs are forced to spread out
AOE Cap: Before the white knights and black knights square off…I know it wont change. However here is where the problems really start to emerge. AOE damage is typically close to single target damage, and nearly everything cleaves. Thus the AOE cap kinda makes sense…but it prevents small ‘bomber’ groups from being able to put a dent in zergs UNLESS that grp has a sizable number as well.
Swiftness: Too much access to it…massive armies shouldn’t move that fast

Guards have next to no soft CC, the best way for us to get soft CC is by putting sigils in weapons. A lack of soft CC is just one of the many problems with Guardian that have existed since beta…

Gaurd weapons: Guardian scepter 1 hardly ever hitting a moving target, scepter 2 mechanics are beyond atrocious, sword auto attack 3 missing a lot, sword 2 damage is garbage and sword 3…just needs a complete overhaul, staff 2 going into the ground and bugging out, hammer auto attack 3 taking two years to cast, hammer 2 not tracking on the X-Axis, hammer 5 requiring you to stop running, focus/shield 5 and the warding spells on staff/hammer having INSANE cooldown timers, shield 5 not actually blocking projectiles, torch 5 not clearing condis on the caster =P

Utility skills: Consecrations are nearly useless in wvw, spirit weapons are a joke, anything that gives us mobility has insane cooldowns. Purging flames is absolutely kittening kittened the person has to be humping your leg to get the condi clear instead of being able to run through it to purge them

Traits: Symbol/Spirit weapon traits need to be combined much like they did with specific warrior traits to make them more appealing. The Cooldown on shouts combined with the fix they did on pure of voice makes it a 4 point trait, not 6. Zealous blade/Glacial heart? rofl…Theres more but Imma move on to my main point

The Guardian class is crippled by their focus on spvp. The point defense system (which is quite un-imaginative I might add) makes guardian work well…which is why they will never fix the class or bugs wrong with it. Heres an example. Symbols are pretty weak…unless you’re defending a point. Consecrations are pointless…unless you’re defending a point.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Not to be rude or anything. But you’re on your soapbox preaching like you’re top guard world and honestly, I’ve never seen your name before now.

On to the matter at hand – SoR is situational. Simple as that. Remember around release when SoR was the meta heal? I sure do. Then the transition to shelter happened but a few still stuck with SoR for a bit longer. I mean, even now people run healing breeze recently so dont try to preach about shelter being the only viable choice.

k

While I agree that shelter is better than SoR keksmuffin, I must say I too have never heard of you =( I think its because like 30 people play spvp

Since I can’t nominate myself Imma go with Amins

I’m still waiting to see a 15-25 man group use 3-5 guardians with JI+hammer to assault enemy zergs. Haven’t seen that since ‘the good ole days’

#originalguildwars2hipster #wasrunninghammerbeforeitwascooltorunhammer #waterfieldwaterpark

This is all a moot point in 4 days…so…

Why are you sorry? Are you one of the b-teamers they have been assigning to development?

Read this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2339673

While listening to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY

Shut your mouths and enjoy the new buffs to Guardians. How dare you think otherwise!

Crapgame.6519:

Bah, quote failed. Anyway Dynnen I was trying to say that while I agree with your overall post above I am not really keen on the person you referenced. He is the primary reason why DaOC lost market share and then made it worse by Trials of Atlantis and Master Levels. In other words, he destroyed a PvP game by trying to add PvE to complete with WoW.

Sure, we already ran into some issues with population and even class balance between realms but overall it was a solid PvP game with risk vs. reward. There was a reason to PvP, take keeps, relics, et al.

Anyway – off subject and I’ll bow out Anyone try Wildstar this weekend?

I’d agree with you on the point that TOA caused DAoC to lose players, but it came out in 2003 while WoW came out in late 04 sometime. I think TOA had more to do with internal pressures wanting to expand a part of the game that wasn’t getting much attention, which he has finally alluded to. TOA kittened a lot of people off because they didn’t want an insane grind or new pve content (IMHO).

If you wanted to bow out of something you shoudn’t have mentioned wildstar I could write a thesis on that…game. I’ll give ya the run down. Everything cleaves (yes even out of stealth attacks) making it even more spammy than this game. The CC system is gimmicky as hell. There are things in the game that balance out the strong parts of the class, but you can trait out of them or have access to a low cooldown ability that negates that balance (IE: stealth breaks on damage and you move much slower while in stealth, both things can be traited out of). The only thing that doesn’t cleave are ranged executes that aren’t on the global cooldown.

Crapgame.6519:

They don’t know Dynnen. kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t. Has you said this is a problem with multiplayer games. Moreover, more so with MMO types in my opinion. I feel those who lose out in the end are the players that are at the top of the bell curve who consider themselves casual yet put in the extra time to at least try and learn the gear, class, and instances. They are perfectly find but do not fit the power gamer who min and max and know most if not all classes they will face in battle.

The bottom of the curve are the feeders who want the game changed to make it easier on them because they are not power players let alone want to spend the time like those on the top of the curve. It is sort of lame in my opinion but I factor it in to the gotta have it know smart phone crowd who want instant gratification with no elbow grease

Lastly – PvE and PvP games don’t math. Never have, never will. Look at DaOC for a prime example. It was perfectly fine until they did what? Added PvE via an expansion pack called Trials of Atlantis and Master Levels.

I think the biggest problem with TOA was that it added an insane grind. Also loot on pvp servers could be stolen off the ground by stealthers and it lead to a giant charlie foxtrot. It was fixed, but not quick enough; which is weird considering they were usually pretty quick to balance/fix things. Not patching things or even attempting to fix problems is one of the worst things you can do as a developer. However one has to know there are problems with the product to fix them, and if you don’t admit that there are any; then they don’t get fixed.

Obtena.7952:

Dynnen.6405:

Alas you are right. Anet is trying to get more casual players, why I don’t know.

I can only speculate that it’s because casuals are the market they want to appeal to because it’s a market that’s not well catered too with the current offerings from other MMO’s.

When companies appeal to an unserved market, it’s an easy win for them. That’s why I don’t see anything rude about people playing how they want in a game that is DESIGNED to allow people to succeed playing how they want.

If I played that way in WoW or SWTOR, I would be a pariah. Here, doing that means you can fit in and have fun and still succeed. No amount of preaching about casuals is going to change the fundamental design of the game.

WoW, SWTOR, and GW2 are in the exact same category. They are ‘theme park’ MMOs. If you want a theme park experience, I hear they have these…theme parks that you can go to. You should go to gamebreaker tv and look up the Mark Jacobs interviews where he describes the status of the market, specifically MMOs. They are really good interviews. MMOs since wow have been chasing the subscription golden rainbow and have failed miserably for a number of reasons, and gw2 keeps adding check marks to the list of ‘things we should do if we don’t want our game to succeed".

I’m going to link this video…I’m hoping its for the last time seeing as how another game that has risk vs reward built into each class is coming out soon. You remember risk vs reward right? That thing that the anet devs used to talk about prior to the beta weekends? Anyway, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

See thats the problem with multiplayer games. There are other people playing. Half assing your way through a dungeon or pvp with a bad spec, bad gear, or bad play is just rude.

Alas you are right. Anet is trying to get more casual players, why I don’t know. CU comes out next year and its sink or swim time for casuals and try-hards alike.

PS: My definition of casual and try-hard goes like this:
Casual: A player who doesn’t play their best when they are playing a game. They don’t devote the extra 15-30 minutes of the time to learning a damage rotation, spec, gear, etc.
Try-hard: A player who forces the game to do most of the heavy lifting for their class. They play the strongest/cheesiest/cookie-cutter spec and get the best gear so the game will carry them.
There isn’t too much difference between these two types of players to be honest.

little ceasar.9254:

Dynnen.6405:

Back in the golden days of this game me, Crank King, Gae Ko, Templanos (Oozo) would ‘deep strike’ into enemy lines. It was a kittening rush appearing in the middle of a group 2-3 times your size then having 2-3 more guardians appear near you dropping rings as well. We followed that up with others AOE and big water fields making a water park for the guardians to hammer around in.

This was about a year ago, lol. I still don’t see hammer trains do this, they just walk in with hammer warriors and guardians in tow. It would be twice as effective if they had deep strike guardians going in first with blinds on VoJ it would be crazy effective.

I’ve seen this done a lot. Problem is any good guild group will have coordinated stability making the technique irrelevant. It is hilarious on pug zergs though.

Yea like I said we were doing it before it was cool to do it. And you’d be really kittening surprised at how many ‘good guild groups’ will fall on their kitten before burning stability.

inb4 the white knights show up

I love how instead of anet weeding through the small amount of suggestions that the guardian forums have come up with they hide behind the stereotype ‘forums are just ragers and people looking for OP buffs to their class’ and write us off.

After this crap we’ve been spoon fed this is about the only thing I can say about the game anymore:

This has been the biggest charlie foxtrot train wreck I’ve ever seen. From the first beta weekend this game has been going down hill, and it really started going faster down hill at this patch: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first#post2339673
I really don’t see how they can honestly say with a straight face that Guardian is in a ‘good place’ right now. They only exist in zergs and nearly everywhere else they are sub-par to complete trash.

Anet needs to figure out what the kitten they want the guardian to be. Its completely unrealistic to have a competitive game and have this amount of cluster kittening going on.

Also, who in the actual kitten cares about non-competitive? Since when has gaming, specifically multiplayer games, become something you do to relax? Stick with single player games or books, something that doesn’t waste other people’s time.

Back in the golden days of this game me, Crank King, Gae Ko, Templanos (Oozo) would ‘deep strike’ into enemy lines. It was a kittening rush appearing in the middle of a group 2-3 times your size then having 2-3 more guardians appear near you dropping rings as well. We followed that up with others AOE and big water fields making a water park for the guardians to hammer around in.

This was about a year ago, lol. I still don’t see hammer trains do this, they just walk in with hammer warriors and guardians in tow. It would be twice as effective if they had deep strike guardians going in first with blinds on VoJ it would be crazy effective.

Diminishing returns haven’t been done right since DAoC, so maybe the devs were just like “Well we can’t do what they did so lets just leave out diminishing returns”

But it should be like this: You get stunned, you’re immune for 10 seconds after it wears off/breaks. You get mezzed, you get a long duration immunity. Roots break on most damage and you’ve got yourself a working system…but ya know, diminishing returns…

There are far better things the devs need to be focused on right now other than this…

Obal’s got some good builds. Hes my dawg ya know? I’d bury my bone in his backyard

Yea, then there is this, lol

Dante.8456:

Guardian’s low health pool is countered by high levels of damage mitigation. That is why I believe that Guardian’s are far more viable at surviving high end encounters than Warriors.

Hahahahahahahaha…hahahahahahaha… HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ohh man thats some funny kitten right there…Can’t tell if you’re trolling or serious.

So if you are trolling refer to my first laughing, if you are serious refer to healing signet/adrenal heal/invuln spam/mobility.

Shaogin.2679:

I didn’t really think that guardians had much problems with conditions. There seems to be plenty of condition removal skills for the guardian.

With our 30 point talent ‘nerf’ or ‘fix’ as they like to call it we have plenty of problems with condis. The problem is that there isn’t any condi clear on weapons except for a few classes and since its all built into utility spam to clear the condis we’re forced into specific roles, which brings us full circle back to a small health pool doesn’t help.

All DPS all the time, dodge and downed state are your heal. This game was great at the start but it hasn’t changed at all or balanced itself since then. So now we have this hardline meta in every aspect of the game that isn’t going to change because anet is afraid of changing it for some reason. Like the healing signet ‘nerf’ thats coming…lol

ReesesPBC.4603:

I thought WvW wasn’t meant to be balanced? The War was tanky, obviously or the thieves would have had an easy job, but you have to admit that with all the traits/mobility/consumables/ the war was easily able to outrun them or get to safety while dishing out decent damage. Plus that war didn’t exactly need to be mobile if the could just stun while marching slowly to the towers but he did have the sword offest to help if he did.

Tell me a game mode that is balanced and you MIGHT have an argument. Otherwise the devs should try to balance every aspect of the game

Diminishing returns/stealth counters are for housewives and little girls: #manmodeactivated

- Jonathan Sharp

End-game in GW2 is fashion

This is what happens when your game builds towards getting more casuals into it. Ahh well, ESO in less than a month and Camelot Unchained in about a year and a half.

#manmodeincoming

Underboob ftw

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/a/a7/Assassin%27s_armor_medium_human_female_front.jpg

I’m sorry but zerg encounters in living story are complete wastes of time. Heres what we have in this game.

WvW: Zergs with massive advantages making the game even more zergy
PvP: Condi meta and point defense
PvE: Fractals that nearly 1 shot you at FOTM 50 (which isn’t a lot of fun) PvE that you try to glitch or gimmick around most of the content
Living Story: Zerging with people who can’t read the abilities of the NPCs and fluff

This game was so much better at launch without all the ‘balance’ changes they made in pvp and wvw, and less zerging in all aspects of the game.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Duke Nukem.6783:

i dont want a legendary, they are all ugly silly weapons, i like more serious stuff

This right here.
If I was given one as a gift, the first thing I would have to do is reskin it.

Right…

I got sunrise October 13th after the release of the game =P

Immobilize a warrior? Thats cute, lemme know how long those last

I run a 10/0/30/25/5 (more damage) build or a 0/15/30/20/5 (more blind/vuln/burn spam) meditation builds myself.
The nice thing about those builds is they are ‘generic’ in terms of utility/weapon cooldown and you can use strong weapon combos.

Sw-F/H
GS/H
Sc-F/GS (less than 5)
Ham/Staff (when you have more than 5 it works, let other people be mobile)

This build is used for mainly JI/Hammer rings to section of parts of groups and focus fire and it works well for that.

So even though 100% up-time on dps with a tank/support guardian is also unrealistic you are still going to leave it up there for a numbers comparison? This build is a solid support build, but its best used in a pug where you can act as a crutch. Focused more on DPS and boon duration you will complete runs easier, but they will be less forgiving than if you ran this build.

This games pve is such trash =/