Guild Wars 2

Talonblaze.3175:

Evilek.5690:

“easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative”

This is really funny passage.

Back Stab “cost” 6 initiative when you use CaD = 6 sec CD, or 9 initiative ( Black powder + HS) With trait 7 initiative = 9/7sec CD. Or must waste utility slot spell (Blinding powder, Shadow refuge or Hide in Shadow)

Tell me what is easier ? Click F1 every 6 sec on long range hight DMG spell or go on close range use abilitiest that make stealth an hit enemy behind on full DMG potencial ?

BTW i hit 95% Kill Shot(15-22kDMG vs low armor class Thief and Ele) with me Warrior because i use frenzy,bolaso.

You make it sound like Thieves aren’t regenerating Initiative whilst they stealth or move. Please.

Plus, you can easily sit and wait the full duration of your Stealth to regain any Initiative until landing the blow without much worry.
Same as Warrior retreat w8 on CD and go back, i missing point on this post

Also again, 6 seconds only if TRAITED for it, as in, going all the way to Grandmaster for a 6 second CD on KS.
Ofcorse Thief dont need TRAITS on HIGHT DMG AND INITIATIVE REGEN LoL

You are also completely ignoring all the other shortcomings the Rifle has compared to your cheesy Backstab.
Shortcomings ? Swap weapons fix it

I’m still saying landing the BS is easier. Otherwise we’d see alot more Rifle warriors dominating, wouldn’t we?
Because Hammer train with AOE CC every 6 sec is better ?

Also, hitting glass uplevels in WvW must make ya feel special with those numbers indeed.
Dont worry 13.5k+ DMG vs 80 LvL Berserker Thief Ele without might stack and 10k+ Volley

Talonblaze.3175:

Evilek.5690:

Kill Shot long range attack every 6 sec,Warrior dont need 5x signet on masive DMG, Warrior has 18.5k HP and heavy armor + surv. abilities like a endurance pain.

Backstab melle range, THief must use all signet on might stack on same DMG like Kill Shot, Thief has 10.5k HP and zero survival abilities with 5x signet.

Kill shot
Damage Level 1 damage: 869 (2.25)?
Damage Level 2 damage: 1,063 (2.75)?
Damage Level 3 damage: 1,256 (3.25)?

Backstab
Damage Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Damage Back damage: 806 (2.4)?

Your logic is really wrong

So is yours apparently. You might get 6 seconds off Killshot’s CD if you trait fully into Discipline. It’s 9 without.

All the other things you mentioned are utilities that can be used by any build. Very few run Rifle to begin with (I’m likely one of the few). You need to build for KS to be even half effective.

Also it roots you for almost 2 seconds. Completely exposed and vulnerable. Doing any other action breaks it. Which, also puts it on cooldown.
Also you making it seem like Warriors spam Killshot every time its off cooldown is only if they have the adrenaline for it too.

It’s MUCH easier to land a Backstab than a Killshot ever will be and its much easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative. Also KS is much easier to dodge too. I’m not even counting you being able to stealth for Backstab either.

“easier to spam it due to only worrying about Initiative”

This is really funny passage.

Back Stab “cost” 6 initiative when you use CaD = 6 sec CD, or 9 initiative ( Black powder + HS) With trait 7 initiative = 9/7sec CD. Or must waste utility slot spell (Blinding powder, Shadow refuge or Hide in Shadow)

Tell me what is easier ? Click F1 every 6 sec on long range hight DMG spell or go on close range use abilitiest that make stealth an hit enemy behind on full DMG potencial ?

BTW i hit 95% Kill Shot(15-22kDMG vs low armor class Thief and Ele) with me Warrior because i use frenzy,bolaso.

Kyon.9735:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Burnfall.9573:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Burnfall.9573:

Try 24k-30k backstab, 18k-23k heartseeker, Perma-Stealth-Nothing New ?)

Guys guys I finally figured it out!!!

He’s lvl 1 and wears no armor in WvW!

All thief players in the thief guild hits for those damages; that’s what i was referring to.

Not I

Like they said, “it only take 2 buttons to play thief class; 1 for stealth, the other for spam”

’That’s it in a nutshell’

I have never been hit by ANYTHING for that much, nor have I hit anything that high, not even an up-leveled light armor character. I have however been hit by a 15k churning earth before and a 15k killshot. Never a backstab.

As an almost full glass build, with 25 Bloodlust stacks, 5 Applied Strength stacks, and 25 might from guardians empowering (which probably brings me to around 4,000 total Attack rating), I can hit about 12k-15k on a tower claimer NPC in WvW depending on how much vulnerability my guild’s necro puts on him. Take away the 25 stacks of might and I hit about 9k backstab on the claimer.

Those numbers you are supplying are simply absurd ESPECIALLY if you’re referring to solo roaming. There is absolutely no way they get those kind of hits, and not even close without support from empower/vulnerability from teammates.

You’re either making it up, or the people you talk to in your guild are making it up to upset you.

Might stacking Signet thieves easily hit 10k~12k Backstabs against glassy elementalists in PvP. It should be more broken in WvW.

Churning Earth has 3.25s casting time. Kill Shot has 1.75s casting time. Backstab has .25s casting time. All skills deal massive damage but only backstab can be used repeatedly and accurately in a short span of time.

Kill Shot long range attack every 6 sec,Warrior dont need 5x signet on masive DMG, Warrior has 18.5k HP and heavy armor + surv. abilities like a endurance pain.

Backstab melle range, THief must use all signet on might stack on same DMG like Kill Shot, Thief has 10.5k HP and zero survival abilities with 5x signet.

Kill shot
Damage Level 1 damage: 869 (2.25)?
Damage Level 2 damage: 1,063 (2.75)?
Damage Level 3 damage: 1,256 (3.25)?

Backstab
Damage Front damage: 403 (1.2)?
Damage Back damage: 806 (2.4)?

Your logic is really wrong

MithranArkanere.8957:

Bad.

Individual applications of Immobilize and Fear should “overlap” instead “stack”.

Remember how each separate instance of bleed or vulnerability has their own duration in a stack?

Because vulnerability and bleed is on 5-15+sec and stack effect and Immobilized is only on 1-3 sec and not stack effect ? Immobilization has only 3x stack, vulnerability and bleed 25x stack

They should work like that, but without getting increased intensity and the number that comes with it.

• Each would last for their full individual duration.
• They all would be removed together.
• But there would be no benefit from applying them all at the same time. Teams, parties and squads would have to time themselves to avoid wasting them by applying them at the same time, and instead do it consecutively.

---

Something similar should happen with dazes and stuns. Remember how sometimes dazes will replace stuns? Instead, they should overlap too, giving priority to stuns, so when a stun ends and there was a daze “under” it, the daze does its thing fir the remainder of its duration.

---

Oh, and NPCs can turn around while immobilized. That should not happen, PvP or not. NPCs should follow the same basic mechanics as players. That’s also why unshakable should be replaced with an universal anti-spam autobalance mechanic that scales with creature rank and also works on players.

Narcarsis.5739:

Black Teagan.9215:

1 vs 1

Whirling Axe -> Dodge

Healing Spring -> Decoy them out, or use your bow and blow them away, if they dont wont to go out.

Ectoplasma -> Who cares, 5 secs are nothing and Mesmer have so many skills against boons.

Throw Gunk-> Good dmg/effect, in a very small area, but only if the thief can hold you in, on the other hand a very good way to break their stealth.

Mace Head Crack-> A very dangerous skill, but guardians have enough skills to dodge, block or break this.

Ice Shard Stab-> For me, the only good items beside WA, which thieves have and very dangerous, if you have nothing that remove conditions.
But with your 20 weapon- + utilityskills, it shouldn’t have big influence.

Skull Fear-> Strong, but only against near enemy. That mean, the long execution time, give you enough time, for a CC and make them very invulnerable for directdmg.

Blinding Tuft-> Helpful for stealthbuilds, lesser for Non-stealth builds.

Whirling Axe – Lasts longer than one dodge, which you should have already forced before using. You also have teleports if necessary to prevent kiting. – Learn to use CC(Old Whirling Axe block all melee attack and 90% CC ablities exept ranged CC – Head Shot etc, new Whirling Axe block only ranged attack and CC

Healing Spring – Please speak English.

Ectoplasm – I won’t say who cares, but I feel this one is fine.

Throw Gunk – You can, and should, hold them in Throw Gunk. But this is another that I feel is fine due to the small area. —- useless in PvP(small aoe)

Mace Crack – Good players will count dodges, force stab, and count cooldowns. If you land both successively you land an 8+ second daze. If you miss you messed up, not so much the Guardian. Good Guardians will capitalize on your mistakes and stay alive forever – the only Guardian I’ve seen do that is Tage. Everyone else is rather easy (or moderately easy) to kill quickly. —-Long cast time,Head shot or PW is better

Ice Shard – Lasts far too long. Again it’s very easy to force and count dodges. You use this after they leave Water Attunement and cover it with poison. If you do it correctly you will ensure that they can’t clear it by saving another Steal to interrupt their Ether Renewal if they have it.

Skull Fear – This one is okay. Very long cast time, easy to see. It has counter play regardless of if the Thief can teleport to you due to the visible animation. However it can be used in stealth very effectively. I still don’t see an issue with this ability.

Blinding Tuft – Helpful always. However this is also fine.

stack immobilization is best change in the last year

Axelwarrior.9084:

Evilek.5690:

Steal without trait is useless class skill as hell

A free gap-closer that gives you an additional skill?

I would be laughing if I wasn’t confused

Sorry but you’re ridiculous.

Mesmer F1 F F3 make burst,invurnerability and daze

Necromancer F1 18k+ HP with 5 skills

Warrior F1 ? No comment 8k Eviscerate in sPvP with axe, Massive aoe with bow, Big stun with mace and all this with 6 sec CD !

Engineer with powerfull kits

vs

Thief steal stolen horrible skills with 35 sec CD ? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

Gj you waste 50 Trait point on boost one spell

Steal without trait is useless class skill as hell

Fractal is joke. Horrible item/gold drop. Normal dungeon has 10x better drop and is 10x faster I have no idea why someone should go Fractal.

“without sacrificing any damage”

:D Condition DMG Thief has 50% DPS as Power Thief.

Knight or Soldier , berserker is bad way. But new celestial is not bad

Realist.5812:

Meteor Shower still lacks an aoe circle, bug still needs to be fixed.

Same engineer caltrops.

kitsumen.7390:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvX-Thief-Black-Powder-rework/first#post3764623

same topic over on profesion balance. i’m kinda glad thievs STILL get so much hate. it means we still matter ( to some degree)

What ? Me main is Thief and yes d/p restealth over and over in 95% of cases is realy broken. Me change make Thief visible on 1+sec but no fix this issue

To:
Black Powder make “Revealed debuf” when he is used in stealth => no more perma stealth with d/p weapon set. This change make Thief wisible on 1+sec.

In this time Thief use BP+HS→BP+HS etc.

After change Thief use BP+HS now he must wait before it expires stealth duration → now Thief is visible 1sec+ → BP+HS.

Solori.6025:

Falassion.8031:

Start by saying that I dont like to complain just because I cannot do something. For example, I hate the mesmer and their clones but I never “asked” a nerf because the clones make me mad and sometimes I can not even do nothing that are already dead.

This past weekend I met a DD ele and we started to move in two for the map. Yesterday there were three : I ( DD thief ) , DD ele and another friend with a thief who has to learn to play.

Meet a Warrior near anza with hammer and sword.

In three we failed to kill him. An incredible CC and he could do a combo of stun + multiple hits with the sword that he removed the 80/90 % of my life. I quickly changed tactics trying to inflict blindness and dodge the attacks to avoid the stun . As soon as his life came to 20 % he used the skill of invulnerability and entered the tower.

We decided, after a couple of attempts to attack the camp, to forcing him to leave the tower. Reaches us , he engaged us when and when he reached 20% of live again invulnerability skills and runned in the middle of the camp preventing us from fact to kill him and take over the camp.

We fought a bit and then we moved towards Mendon to kill the dolyak and to force him to come out. Same story . I changed tactics, from the blind to the elite skill to stun but nothing.

I do not consider myself a PRO player but I believe that in nine months of play as a thief i learned something. The other DD ele seems like a good player, my other friend had to learn the thief mechanics.

I found the same warrior when he was fighting another couple of players and seemed to suffer the necromancer. Ok maybe he is weak against condiction but it seems a bit OP to keep up three players and not only not getting killed, but having high probability of killing all three.

Not to mention the incredible speed that the warrior has. I do not think it is correct that there is a class with high damage, high armor and good evasion.

Surely it was a much better player than me and I enjoyed to fight him and try to improve my dodge but I think warrior hammer need a review …

Sorry for my bad english :P

So let me get this straight..

Out of two DD ele’s
and a thief..

Neither of you three had CC’s
Immobilizes
or the DPS to take out a single warrior..

Just so I am sure of what I am reading..

Out of the three of you..

All three of you with some way to keep the warrior in your group and three of you with a way to chase…

ALL three of you…couldnt slow down this warrior…

All three of you couldnt DPS him down..

Something is either wrong with your build.
Or all three of you just started playing in pvp and you haven’t learned how to fight players yet..

Ha ha ha and ha
Tell me why 45-50% player play Warrior in WvWvW ? Because Warrior is so weak ?

http://www.twitch.tv/shinryuku_ku/c/3813213

Problem on Warrior is hight base hp/hp regen + Longest CC in game with hight DMG

BTW: next patch Warrior comming with Sigil of Paralyzation + Sigil of Impact in Hammer

Absinth.6917:

Welcome to the fold

Thieves kill you quite easily

Kill everyone else.

Really ? 20k+HP 4050-3900 Armor,biggest HP regen in game and 1k condition dmg ?

Kindread.9481:

So this question often pops up, and after doing some research I was Shocked at the amount of self heals a Thief was capable of!

So lets get right into it: (All data assumed to be @ lvl 80)

Signet of Malice:
Healing: 100/hit
Healing Coefficient: 5%
EXAMPLE: with 1000 +Healing SoM would heal for 150/Hit

Assassin’s Reward:
Healing: 69/initiative spent
Healing Coefficient: 3.5%
EXAMPLE: with 1000 +Healing AR would heal you for 104 per initiative spent

Leeching Venoms
Healing: 325/hit while any venom was active
Healing Coefficient: 20%
EXAMPLE: with 1000+Healing LV would heal you for 525 per hit

Superior Sigil of Blood
Healing: 453/critical hit (30% chance)
Healing Coefficient: 10%
EXAMPLE: with 1000+Healing SoB would heal you for 553 per critical hit (30% chance)

Omnomberry Pie
Healing: 325/critical hit (66% chance)
Healing Coefficient: 10%
EXAMPLE: with 1000+Healing OP would heal you for 425 per critical hit (66% chance)

Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Healing: 293/sec while in stealth
Healing Coefficient: 10%
EXAMPLE: with 1000+Healing SR would heal you for 393 per second while in stealth

Shadow Refuge
Healing: 355/sec for 4 seconds+1 on initial cast
Healing Coefficient: 18%
EXAMPLE: with 1000+Healing SR would heal you for 535 on initial cast + 535/sec for 4 seconds

Shadow Refuge Combo Finisher (Dark Field w/Projectile)
Healing: 202/hit
Healing Coefficient: 10%
EXAMPLE: with 1000+healing the finisher would heal you for 302 per hit
note: Projectile finishers that hit multiple targets such as Dancing Dagger will trigger the Finisher heal for each enemy it hits. The Dark combo field will refresh each second you stand within it. So if you had 4 targets, you could use Dancing Dagger 4 times before the combo field ended for a maximum healing of 3232 (202*4=808*4=3232, or 4832 w/1000+Healing)

Shadow Protector
Healing: 130/sec (grats you and others that you stealth the Regeneration boon)
Healing Coefficient: 12.5%
EXAMPLE: with 1000+Healing SP would heal you for 255/sec

So lets talk for a moment about strategy…

Skill: Pistol Whip
Hits your target 9 times
Healing From:
*Signet of Malice: 900 w/no+Healing, 1350 w/1000+Healing

*Assassin’s Reward: 621 w/no+Healing, 936 w/1000+Healing

*Superior Sigil of Blood: 453/crit w/no+Healing, 553/crit w/1000+Healing
~~~Assuming a 50% crit chance, at 9 attacks you would heal 4.5 times which would = 2038/Pistol Whip w/no+Healing, 2488/Pistol Whip w/1000+Healing (30% Chance)

*Omnomberry Pie: 325/crit w/no+Healing, 425/crit w/1000+Healing
~~~Assuming a 50% crit chance, at 9 attacks you would heal 4.5 times which would = 1462/Pistol Whip w/no+Healing, 1912/Pistol Whip w/1000+Healing (66% Chance)

*Leeching Venom: 325/hit with no+Healing, 525/hit w/1000+Healing for 5 attacks which would = 1625 w/no+Healing, 2625 w/1000+Healing

TOTAL: 6646 w/no +Healing, 9311 w/1000 +Healing per use of the Pistol Whip skill (this of course varies based on your likelyhood of critical chance and the availiabilty of Venom skills).

Skill: Shadow Refuge
Cloak yourself and your allies and heal them over time
Healing From:
*Shadow Refuge: 355/sec for 5 ticks = 1775 w/no +Healing, 2675 w/1000 +Healing

*Shadow’s Rejuvenation: 293/sec for 5 ticks = 1465 w/no +Healing, 1965 w/1000 +Healing

*Shadow Protector: 130/sec for 5 ticks = 650 w/no +Healing, 1275 w/1000 +Healing

TOTAL: 3890 w/no +Healing, 5915 w/1000 +Healing

A Special Thanks to PopeUrban for the following information:
Shadow Refuge Combo Finisher (Dark Field w/Projectile)
Utilizing the skill Dancing Dagger from a Dark Combo Field

*Healing from: Combo Finisher = 202+10% of Healing Power

*Healing from: Signet of Malice = 100/hit+10% of Healing Power

*Healing from: Assassin’s Reward = 69/initiative spent+3.5% of Healing Power

TOTAL: per cast of Dancing Dagger hitting 2 targets: 1484 w/no+Healing, 2224 w/1000+Healing
**Please note this does not include the chance to lifesteal on crit, or all the passive healing you get from standing within the Shadow Refuge.

It would not be optiomal to take all of these forms of healing, as it would severly kitten your damage, also depending on the circumstances you may not get the full healing effect (i.e. the mob moves out of range of your Pistol Whip, or a mob plants an AoE on top of your Shadow Refuge forcing you to move.

If anyone can think of any other ways to heal I would like to add them to this list. Equally if you find any errors in my math, or something just does not make sence please let me know.

Thanks!

Superior Sigil of Blood 2sec CD max 1 one proc per one PW
Omnomberry 1sec CD max 1 proc per one PW

PW Heals you for 3303 in the case=>Use venom with Leeching Venoms(45sec CD) +you must land all PW hits —> All food and Sigil must proc

Your calculations are really bad

Zenith.7301:

What I find more broken in that video is that said thief interrupting you can do so 3-4 times in a row.

Most classes at best get 2 interrupts on 30+ sec cd’s.

Stun=Daze=knockdown=Launch all this effect make interupt

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knock_down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

Warrior,Mesmer,Thief,Elementalist,Engineer etc can you interupted 4+ in a row no only Thief.

1) Learn the mechanics of this game
2)Now you are qualified to write on the forum

nyqwist.2360:

Here a idea;

When a weapon-skill gets interrupted the thief looses;

X * 4 = [Intiative Lost]

X = [10s of Initative Regeneration] / 10 * 4

I’m not sure if this is the correct way to show it so to say, but this basicly means that when you have a cast time interrupted, you loose the corresponding initative that you would gain during the 4 seconds of cooldown you have on a skill when interrupted.

You do not understand the initiative mechanics.Thief use initiative on “ALL” weapon set skills no on only “ONE”. When you intertupt cast on all other skills = “ONLY” interuptetd skills has 4 sec CD no “ALL” other skills.

Your suggestion
When we interupted cast on Thief weapon skills,Thief lose skill cost initiative ===> We apply initiative cost CD on ALL OTHER THIEF WEAPON SET SKILLS no on ONLY ONE because “ALL” Thief weapons skills “COST INITIATIVE”

Sorry but this is really dumb suggestion

ens.9854:

This is working as intended. Skills only go on full cooldown if they are interrupted after an effect takes place. This is why most heals only go on a short cooldown while shelter/ether renewal etc go on full cooldown if interrupted. The same applies to churning earth—although the blast is delayed, it immediately applies a cripple field and thus gets a full cd if interrupted. The dragon tooth thing is a bug* (it only has a 6s cd anyway though)

Part of the effect of heartseeker is the movement ability. This is why initiative is subtracted immediately upon activation and not upon completion

Yep

Interupt work only vs spell with CD and channel cast, no vs isnta cast spells. When you interupt channel Thief spell Thief lose initiative. Thief has two chanell spells who cost innitiative (Unload and Pisolwhip) interupt works only vs Unload because PistolWhip has evade effect.

Thats all and no this is not bug.

Yep we need cast bar over heads

Shockwave.1230:

I did the numbers on this and the conclusion is that Pistol Whip’s DPS is about 28% more than the Sword Autoattack chain for thief.

I spammed the sword auto attack chain 20 times non-stop and found that I was able to land those in almost exactly 49 seconds.

I spammed Pistol Whip 7 times in a row (because that was the most I could build for) and found I could do this in about 15.8 seconds.

Cast Time of an entire cycle
Time to complete an entire sword auto attack chain is about 2.45 seconds.
The time to complete a pistol whip is about 2.25 seconds.

Damage Coefficients
The total damage coefficient of the auto attack chain is 2.9
Pistol Whip’s damage coefficient = 3.14

Coefficient Per Cycle
Definition: The average damage coefficient throughout an entire skill cycle
Auto attack chain = 1.183673469
Pistol whip = 1.395555556

Coefficient Per Cycle Per Second
Definition: The average damage coefficient inflicted from a skill cycle in 1 second
Auto attack chain = 0.483132028
Pistol whip = .620246914

Coefficient Per Cycle Per Second Percentage
Auto attack chain = 100%
Pistol whip = 128%

I have some margin for error given how I had to collect the data for the Cycle cast times, but it’s unlikely I was off so much that pistol whip would be calculated to be less than 20% more dps than the sword auto attack chain. I hope people find this information helpful.

What ?? AA chain has 2.02 and PW has 2.1 i test this 20x = AA has same attack speed as PW
I have no idea where you took 2.25 and 2.45 lol

PW base DMG 1062 + 3.14*AP = 8861 DMG vs 0 armor
AA base DMG 269+269+437=975 + 2,9*AP 8178 DMG vs o armor

PW make 8,5% more DMG, with Trait 12,5% more DMG. If not count base DMG, PW make 0.82% more DMG, and 5.82% more DMG with trait.

Glass cannon Thief in sPvP 2484 a_power

Marlafox.8715:

Dear Arena Net,

This community hates thieves. So in order to fix all problems with the thief class you need to remove off hand weapons. Reduce auto attack damage, reduce total initiative to four, make sure thieves have chill and weakness constantly applied to them, Give the thief only five trait points, remove all teleports from the class, Make sure the only utilities the class has access to are traps, remove all forms of healing, make sure thieves have a constant target over their head, and remove the short bow from the list of thief weapons. If you do all of this then the community might not hate thieves as much.

Pistol Whip has a wind up. The wind up is hard to see at a distance or if the thief is an asura (this is a whole different can of wurms). This why most thieves use teleport skills to land a pistol whip. The stun portion of this skill is block able so you can just walk away from the thief. The thief is not evading when casting the stun or in the last few swings of the “whip” portion of the skill. Clone death + necromancer pet death still goes through the evade frames. The damage pistol whip does is hardly greater than one auto attack chain. Hundred Blades does more damage and can be used more often per minute then pistol whip.

People say its cheesy and skill less. These people are probably playing PU phantasm mesmers, MM necros, Sprit rangers, Hambow warriors, or any other type of passive play style. They have forgotten how to react to active play. People also seem to forget that all thief weapons share the same resource pool. A thief with no initiative swapping from S/P to D/D will not be able to perform cloak and dagger right away unlike a warrior going from spamming his hammer skills to then spamming his longbow skills then five seconds later switching back to his hammer.

They want the evade frames gone; the stun gone, Initiative increased, and the damage reduce even further. Without the evade frames the thief will die if they use this skill. The community basically wants free kills. The stun makes sure half the damage from pistol whip lands unless in a few cases you get lucky with RNG quickness or pop haste. Some guy wanted the initiative increased to eight, as a thief you only get twelve or fifteen initiative. So in order to use pistol whip you lose out on first strikes and a large part of lead attacks traits. It also leaves the thief with only four or seven initiative. PvE wise the weapon set is now garbage if that were to happen. The stun can only hit one person. If that person isn’t you take a step back. If that person is you, you will actually have to use a survival utility to live! Group retaliation or just retaliation will still wreck a pistol whip thief.

Arena net I beg you lock this forum. Do not change anything with pistol whip YET. Release the March 18th patch. See if the community can actually learn to counter pistol whip before you decide to gut this weapon set. Go after passive play first. Your game has a fun active combat system. Don’t wreck it because people refuse how to learn to play.

+9000

Mrbig.8019:

Evilek.5690:

Sinister.5792:

Do you main Thief?
Yes, I am one of the baddest thief you will ever find in EU.
I’ve been playing with my thief since launch(aka. Evisceratrix [permabanned])
I have mastered all weapon sets, and played a wide range of builds and variations.

When do you feel that Pistol Whip is unbalanced? (scenarios would be great)
To me, personally I think Pistolwhip is unbalanced, due to the Dodge capability, the animation is sometime glitched(like standing on place but actually casting the skill)
There are hidden secrets about Pistolwhip, and how to totally dominate in PvP with it.

-When you cast pistolwhip you are dodging all the attacks until the animation ends.
-While doing the animation, you gain initiative from trait, and from seconds, so the ini regeneration is quite you know
-Pistolwhip damage is way too high for the cost of 5 initiative, I’ve tested builds, and I still hit 5k – 7k with only 20% crit dmg
-the stuns on pistolwhip is horrible and just plain horrible and should be removed even if its 0.5ms, for some reason its like 1s or (gives big disadvantage on other classes)
-even my little sister could kill an elementalist as long as I tell her to press button 3 all the time

to sum it all up why its unbalance due to
-stun
-dodge
-huge damage
-gives big disadvantage to players (skilled or un-skilled)

How does it feel unbalanced compared to other class mechanics?
Pistolwhip destroys the fun… its like back in the spam 2 heartseeker era.
one skill, 10 dead bodies

What would you do to change Pistol Whip to better fit the class/game?
-To keep pistolwhip balance either you could do these

V1
-Remove Stun
-keep the damage
-Increase initiaive cost to 7
-remove the dodge

V2
-Keep stun
-increase initiative cost to 7
-remove the dodge
-minimise the damage 20%

V3
-Increase initiaive cost to 7
-keep dodge
-remove stun
-minimise the dmg 20%

V4
-Increase initiative cost to 7
-remove dodge
-remove stun
-keep the damage

V5
-increase initiative cost to 8
-increase damage 20%
-remove dodge
-remove stun

V6 (HARD MODE)
-increase initiative cost to 8
-no changes

I like how liewec said about the vulnerability, but confusion? nope..

its a good idea to give pistolwhip a condition effect like vulnerability, imagine, you’re being slashed, lets be realistic, if you get slashed, do your armor remain intact? nope.. you
become vulnerable.. lol

anyways, I can’t be bothered writing things down in formal way.

First time PW has same DPS as AA chain(AA chain make cripple and weknes and ofc cost ZERO initiative)

Secondly increase initiative cost on 7 or 8 ? This is best joke in this topic Looks like you have not played the thief in life

Are you serioulsy telling this to SINISTER ?

This is the reason why threads like this have absolutely no sense, because any random can feel entitled to know stuff.

Personally i agree with Sinister and if anything, the issue right now is ini regenerating too fast with PW animation being very long ( aka regening craptons of ini while doing so, spamming even more PW).

But tbh the real problem with thieves is the whole ini system, paired with a boring and idiotic profession mechanic with absolutely no flexibility ( Steal) being overbuffed due to the reasons stated above.

Something that lead to the idiotic achievement of doing so much with a single button.

Instantly.

Thief needs a redesign, not a simple “shave”

WoW you use 40 trait point on boost one spell, where is point ?

stof.9341:

Lordrosicky.5813:

And if people QQ about PW and auto attack chain not having much DPS difference then the auto attack should be nerfed because that is also too strong. Auto attacks shouldn’t do massive damage

Yeah, thieves shouldn’t do damage at all in fact.

Yes you’re right !!! Thief is TANk/HEALER/SUPPORT class no Assassin class

Sinister.5792:

Do you main Thief?
Yes, I am one of the baddest thief you will ever find in EU.
I’ve been playing with my thief since launch(aka. Evisceratrix [permabanned])
I have mastered all weapon sets, and played a wide range of builds and variations.

When do you feel that Pistol Whip is unbalanced? (scenarios would be great)
To me, personally I think Pistolwhip is unbalanced, due to the Dodge capability, the animation is sometime glitched(like standing on place but actually casting the skill)
There are hidden secrets about Pistolwhip, and how to totally dominate in PvP with it.

-When you cast pistolwhip you are dodging all the attacks until the animation ends.
-While doing the animation, you gain initiative from trait, and from seconds, so the ini regeneration is quite you know
-Pistolwhip damage is way too high for the cost of 5 initiative, I’ve tested builds, and I still hit 5k – 7k with only 20% crit dmg
-the stuns on pistolwhip is horrible and just plain horrible and should be removed even if its 0.5ms, for some reason its like 1s or (gives big disadvantage on other classes)
-even my little sister could kill an elementalist as long as I tell her to press button 3 all the time

to sum it all up why its unbalance due to
-stun
-dodge
-huge damage
-gives big disadvantage to players (skilled or un-skilled)

How does it feel unbalanced compared to other class mechanics?
Pistolwhip destroys the fun… its like back in the spam 2 heartseeker era.
one skill, 10 dead bodies

What would you do to change Pistol Whip to better fit the class/game?
-To keep pistolwhip balance either you could do these

V1
-Remove Stun
-keep the damage
-Increase initiaive cost to 7
-remove the dodge

V2
-Keep stun
-increase initiative cost to 7
-remove the dodge
-minimise the damage 20%

V3
-Increase initiaive cost to 7
-keep dodge
-remove stun
-minimise the dmg 20%

V4
-Increase initiative cost to 7
-remove dodge
-remove stun
-keep the damage

V5
-increase initiative cost to 8
-increase damage 20%
-remove dodge
-remove stun

V6 (HARD MODE)
-increase initiative cost to 8
-no changes

I like how liewec said about the vulnerability, but confusion? nope..

its a good idea to give pistolwhip a condition effect like vulnerability, imagine, you’re being slashed, lets be realistic, if you get slashed, do your armor remain intact? nope.. you
become vulnerable.. lol

anyways, I can’t be bothered writing things down in formal way.

First time PW has same DPS as AA chain(AA chain make cripple and weknes and ofc cost ZERO initiative)

Secondly increase initiative cost on 7 or 8 ? This is best joke in this topic Looks like you have not played the thief in life

laquito.5269:

I guess thats what you call “balancing” for thieves. People just whine on the forum about thief meta specs until they get nerfed into the ground. Same was true for S/D, so say goodbye to S/P for the upcoming patch.

I wish the same was true for any other class…

Because 85% of the people who writes on the forum have no idea about how the game mechanism works.

Easy way
- Enemy player kill me !! —-> Hmm enemy must play OP class because i am pro !!! —-> Click on GW2 forum and make topic " Warrior is OP please nerf!!! Thief is OP please nerf !! "

Hard way for 85% players.
- Enemy player kill me !! —-> Hmm he is so good and absolutely outplay me.I’m so bad.. —-> I have to go practice more and improve my game skill !!

Lordrosicky.5813:

Arkantos.7460:

I main thief, playing a s/p , sh build without stealth

PW is imbalanced because the evade on flurry is bugged, it Need to be blurr to get worked right.
The damage is ok after all theese sword nerfs.

split the skill into 2 skills
1 Close-range stun and 1 flurry attack
separating means give more Option to ingame combat for thief with only 12 initiative …. and build viability

by the way , why are we talking about PW again? John Peter already promised us the separating idea of this skill

Pistol whip is just the tip of the iceberg. The problem is the fact they reduced all thief cool downs by 33% last patch. When thief was already single handedly responsible for knocking any other berserker roamer class out of the meta due to the s/d thief build which was hardly nerfed at all. It was utter madness. The work of mad people who really really must have no idea.

This game have ZERO skill because of power creep. It is all just SPAM SPAM SPAM. Spam attacks, spam evades, spam invulnerabilities. Everything is such a joke and all they do is continue the power creep. Literally that is all they have done since dhuumfire – power creep. Result = a dead pvp game.

• Base Regen —-———————————- .750 => 1.00 (+33%)
• Opportunity —-———————————1.00 => 0.25 (-85%)
• CS VIII (Untraited, Traited)
  Signet of Malice (1)
  17 —-———————————- .118 => .059 (-50%)
  14 —-———————————- .143 => .071 (-50%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet,
  Signets of Agility
  and Shadows (3)
  30 —-———————————- .067 => .033 (-50%)
  24 —-———————————- .083 => .042 (-50%)
  Assassin’s Signet
  45 —-———————————- .044 => .022 (-50%)
  36 —-———————————- .056 => .028 (-50%)
• Acro IX
  2 every 10 sec —-——————- .200 => .100 (-50%)
  Acro XII
  3 every 9 seconds —-————— .333 —-—- .333 (NC0%)
• Trick V
  3 every (?) seconds
  0 35 —-—————————- .086 => .057 (-33%)
  5 33.25 —-———————— .090 => .060 (-33%)
  10 31.75 —-———————— .094 => .063 (-33%)
  15 30.5 —-————————- .098 => .066 (-33%)
  20 29.25 —-———————— .103 => .068 (-33%)
  25 28 —-—————————- .107 => .071 (-33%)
  30 27 —-—————————- .111 => .074 (-33%)
  w/XII 21.5 —-————————- .140 => .093 (-33%)
  Trickery XI
  4 on heal
  Signet of Malice (traited) — .286 --—— .286 (NC0%)
  Signet of Malice —-————- .235 —-—- .235 (NC0%)
  Withdraw —-————————- .250 —-—- .250 (NC0%)
  Hide in Shadows —-————— .133 —-—- .133 (NC0%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet (Passive)
  1 every 10 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative
  6 every 60 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative (Traited)
  6 every 48 seconds —-————- .125 —-—- .125 (NC0%)

Where is your Initiative regen boost ?

Eiland.1405:

Evilek.5690:

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

With biased timeline illogical is easily achieved.

You only “forgot” about:
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip does less damge then aout attack – attack bump
People cry S/P not viable – initiative cost reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip too hard to connect – skill time reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip still does less dmg then auto attack – dmg bump
People cry w/o endless stun break on sword #2 thief is dead class – ini +33% bump

Your logic may rest now

Less iniciative cost ?

All PW change

-15% DMG
smaller gaps pistol->sword attack
Reduced the aftercast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds
Nerf stun duration (paralyse sigil)

Where is your reduce Initiative cost ?

And ofc here is your Initiative regen boost lol

Base Regen —-———————————- .750 => 1.00 (+33%)
*Opportunity —-——————————— 1.0 ==> 0.20 (- 85%)
CS VIII (Untraited, Traited)
Signet of Malice (1)
17 —-———————————- .118 => .059 (-50%)
14 —-———————————- .143 => .071 (-50%)
Infiltrator’s Signet,
Signets of Agility
and Shadows (3)
30 —-———————————- .067 => .033 (-50%)
24 —-———————————- .083 => .042 (-50%)
Assassin’s Signet
45 —-———————————- .044 => .022 (-50%)
36 —-———————————- .056 => .028 (-50%)
Acro IX
2 every 10 sec —-——————- .200 => .100 (-50%)
Acro XII
3 every 9 seconds —-————— .333 —-—- .333 (NC0%)
Trick V
3 every (?) seconds
0 35 —-—————————- .086 => .057 (-33%)
5 33.25 —-———————— .090 => .060 (-33%)
10 31.75 —-———————— .094 => .063 (-33%)
15 30.5 —-————————- .098 => .066 (-33%)
20 29.25 —-———————— .103 => .068 (-33%)
25 28 —-—————————- .107 => .071 (-33%)
30 27 —-—————————- .111 => .074 (-33%)
w/XII 21.5 —-————————- .140 => .093 (-33%)
Trickery XI
4 on heal
Signet of Malice (traited) — .286 ——— .286 (NC0%)
Signet of Malice —-————- .235 —-—- .235 (NC0%)
Withdraw —-————————- .250 —-—- .250 (NC0%)
Hide in Shadows —-————— .133 —-—- .133 (NC0%)
Infiltrator’s Signet (Passive)
1 every 10 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
Roll For Initiative
6 every 60 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
Roll For Initiative (Traited)
6 every 48 seconds —-————- .125 —-—- .125 (NC0%)

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

The thief is the same as a warrior.Warrior/Thief is anti noobs class and no H/B warrior is not OP only unskilled noobs say “OMG Warrior is so OP !!”

Burnfall.9573:

" So all in all thief is not OP they are glass cannons. we hit hard but die quick.."

Where is Death when you can not see it?

Where is Death when you can not find it?

Where is Death when it already Over Power you?

Where is Death when it always Over Power you?

Where is Death when you are already Dead?

Where is Death when you are always Dead?

Can someone explain this to me….

Can anyone explain this to me…..

why this class is not OP?

why isn’t this Over Powerfulness class not a concern?

Say Underpower Warrior ? Next joke comming ?

To bckerr.4798: TAB is your friend.

Azgarn.2145:

The thing that make thieves so powerful right now, is the fact that most have no issues ever with initiative thanks to the +33% boost last balance, most use d/p and blind spam like crazy, and disengaging combat is so easy you almost have to choose to actually die. Those are the 3 issues that need addressed. I will say that when those issues get dealt with, Anet needs to make survivability possible in other mechanics for thieves. As you’ve all stated, they are very vulnerable due to low HP pool and most condi cleanses are limited to 1.

Personally, I just don’t think the current mechanics for thieves contribute for good pvp. OP? Maybe not in the grand scheme of the game. In WvW, there is no doubt that a decent thief is a potent enemy in small to midsize fights. But I do know that thief population is rising quickly in wvw and d/p is the popular choice, due to easy of stealth and blind spam.

Initiative regen boost ??? You play Thief right ?

• Base Regen —-———————————- .750 => 1.00 (+33%)
  *Opportunity —-——————————— 1.0 ==> 0.20 (- 85%)
• CS VIII (Untraited, Traited)
  Signet of Malice (1)
  17 —-———————————- .118 => .059 (-50%)
  14 —-———————————- .143 => .071 (-50%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet,
  Signets of Agility
  and Shadows (3)
  30 —-———————————- .067 => .033 (-50%)
  24 —-———————————- .083 => .042 (-50%)
  Assassin’s Signet
  45 —-———————————- .044 => .022 (-50%)
  36 —-———————————- .056 => .028 (-50%)
• Acro IX
  2 every 10 sec —-——————- .200 => .100 (-50%)
  Acro XII
  3 every 9 seconds —-————— .333 —-—- .333 (NC0%)
• Trick V
  3 every (?) seconds
  0 35 —-—————————- .086 => .057 (-33%)
  5 33.25 —-———————— .090 => .060 (-33%)
  10 31.75 —-———————— .094 => .063 (-33%)
  15 30.5 —-————————- .098 => .066 (-33%)
  20 29.25 —-———————— .103 => .068 (-33%)
  25 28 —-—————————- .107 => .071 (-33%)
  30 27 —-—————————- .111 => .074 (-33%)
  w/XII 21.5 —-————————- .140 => .093 (-33%)
  Trickery XI
  4 on heal
  Signet of Malice (traited) — .286 --—— .286 (NC0%)
  Signet of Malice —-————- .235 —-—- .235 (NC0%)
  Withdraw —-————————- .250 —-—- .250 (NC0%)
  Hide in Shadows —-————— .133 —-—- .133 (NC0%)
  Infiltrator’s Signet (Passive)
  1 every 10 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative
  6 every 60 seconds —-————- .100 —-—- .100 (NC0%)
  Roll For Initiative (Traited)
  6 every 48 seconds —-————- .125 —-—- .125 (NC0%)

and Infusion of shadow nerf

Eiland.1405:

You remember the reason for nerfing the damage on warrior hammer?
“we want to separate damage from CC”
Yes PW is a single target mele stun, unlike the hammer. but with so many insta teleports landing it is so much easier then landing earthshaker (in 1v1).
So yeah, no reason for it to do as much damage as the auto attack because it already stun the opponents!
See how often you land a full or almost full PW against the times you land of full AA chain – much more. Who ever eats a whole auto attack chain of any weapon without being cc?

Oh and that evade – is a bug. Beside the fact that putting evade on this skill negates all elements of risk/reward from it, it also have no mention in skill description so it is a bug, and will surly get fix very fast (by 20126).

This is joke right ?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker 2s stun every 6 sec
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Staggering_Blow 1sec fly back
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backbreaker 2 sec knockdown

or

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Crack 3sec stun
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pommel_Bash 1sec daze
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tremor 2sec knockdown

And ofc +50% crit chance on stuned target

VS

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip 0.5 sec stun ?

Stand The Wall.6987:

1/2 sec daze and evade in the beginning.
Balanced?

What ? PW has two phase

1) Pistol attack with 3/4s cast time + little stun 1/2s and no evade
2)Sword attack with +- 1 sec evade

Engi is better but i don’t like engi play style. Look on this Power engi burst http://www.twitch.tv/doctorbeetus/c/3227745

Viking Jorun.5413:

Pixels.6532:

Evilek.5690:

1. Daze for 1/2 second when hit from the front
2. Stun for 1/2 second when hit from the side or behind

Why no but 6 initiative cost is so dumb, S/P thies has only one DMG spell (PW) with less DPS as AA other spec has CaD,Backstab,HS,SH etc

But this will not solve anything =) Many Thiefs start play P/P and you start see many crying topic like a " P/P THIEF IS SO OP NERF ARENANET"

Issue w/ PW isn’t the dmg, which is in a good spot, it’s how well it shuts down opponents while doing that dmg, by making it daze from the front, people can still immediately move out of it, so that you would need to be behind or on the side to reliable get the dmg off, this makes the spec less punishing and increasing the ini cost helps reduce it’s spammability while still keeping it viable, imo.

As for people complaining about P/P specs… i doubt it.

The stun is so short that, even with Sigil of Paralyzation, the thief is only guaranteed two hits. React faster if you’re dying to it because of the stun, or turn off melee assist, and just walk through the thief and avoid his entire next pistol whip as well as the rest of the hits from the last PW.

You do not write to me this fact. I know, right.

1. Daze for 1/2 second when hit from the front
2. Stun for 1/2 second when hit from the side or behind

Why no but 6 initiative cost is so dumb, S/P thies has only one DMG spell (PW) with less DPS as AA other spec has CaD,Backstab,HS,SH etc

But this will not solve anything =) Many Thiefs start play P/P and you start see many crying topic like a " P/P THIEF IS SO OP NERF ARENANET"

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

He’s playing engi. I am disappoint.

Because the engineers and warriors are the best wvwvw class?

Simon.3794:

Evilek.5690:

Simon.3794:

i play thief and ele
sp is one of the easiest build to use and the most frustating build to against, also dodge spamming

SP is easiest build ? I must play other class

i meant for thief, but yes, even in general, sp is still one of the easiest builds.

easy→hard to play

d/p→p/d→s/d→p/p→s/p=d/d

Simon.3794:

i play thief and ele
sp is one of the easiest build to use and the most frustating build to against, also dodge spamming

SP is easiest build ? I must play other class

BlackBeard.2873:

Evilek.5690:

Last Initiative change nerf PW so hard, because Opportunist has now 5 sec CD = lowest Initiative regen and of course nerf all initiative passive regen traits.

I guess you haven’t played the 10/30/0/0/30 PW build. The change to initiative regen made init regen traits and skills completely unnecessary. Also , changes to after-casts have buffed the skill.

Of course Arenanet changes PW after-casts beacose nerf paralyze sigil = nerf stun, boost cast speed. And Initiative regen nerf reduce the amount of PW in row

People start play S/P because Arenanet nerf S/D to hell thats all.

MatthiasL.5346:

Played S/P ever since release, so here is my opinion: Usually it is a great setup, because it works without stealth and all abilities are somehow useful.

After last patch this setup became so boring and the skill cap lowered much. Don´t know how to describe, it just feels wrong and bad to play at the moment. It was great pre -paralization- patch (the pistol whip-skill itself, without sigil, just want everyone to know which patch I mean):
1. The stun duration was longer, but it took also a while before the whirling started. So enemies had the chance to escape and dodge.
2. According to this, the thief had to position himself in the right spot to land every hit, which need a higher skill cap.
3. You couldn´t spam the skill that much, due to the initiative reg, which was ~-30%.
4. The animation was much slower, that’s why the thief took more damage before the evades started (risk-reward)
5. S/P had quite a higher skill cap, that’s why nobody (except a few people) played that setup.
6. It was a good feeling to play a setup, which was quite balanced compared to S/D and D/P.

Actually nearly everyone run this build because it´s just broken. Due to the ini reg you can spam this skill that much… Should have done a video:D Man I saw thieves just spamming #3 in the wall to evade! Think that fact explains everything about that skill.

So here are my solutions:
1. Turn it back to “pre-para-patch” or
2. Maybe separate the skill just like ls/fs with higher ini cost or undo the ini-reg-buff or
3. Maybe “only stuns the enemy if you hit him from behind” or
4. Delete “Stun” add “daze”
5….
? Increase the skill-cap, otherwise there will appear even more “spam#3likeabosswithoutriskthieves”
There are a lot of options… But please, just please make that skill non spam able anymore like this. There is such a low risk to a high reward like this. You can blame me for that, but it´s the truth. Man I just switched to S/D (that’s spamming like a boss too) but it feels much better than s/p, because there is no spam able stun, evade and aoe dmg at the same time.

Last Initiative change nerf PW so hard, because Opportunist has now 5 sec CD = lowest Initiative regen and of course nerf all initiative passive regen traits.

Who says that the thief got initiative regen boost is ignorant.

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Oh lol evilek guy is such waste of time. he didnt have slots for ele, so asked his buddy to duel instead. Got kitten wiped every time, refused to give 200g. epic waste of time

Man this is me character list. And yes your HS spam make 600 600 900 and big crit 3k DMG vs stationary Elementalist with 0 10 0 30 30 Traits. 2.5k Armor.

And yes a don’t pay you 200g because you don’t kill me with HS spam

i came in with working spvp build expecting your buddy will do the same.
I didnt duel with u, god knwos what it was.
You said you will upload it, im waiting for non edited version, actually seing your build and stats
If you wanted me to kill with random kitten max hs build i used on dummie ( you did different one, saw the damage in light armor. ) could have looked at my screen and just mailed gold
the moment you refused to play upfront i knew you will never pay. losing duels not even doing more thna 2k damage per 10s i could tell your build was kittened dmg mitigation as much as possible, yet you still ate 4 3-5k crit in first duel

Dont worry i record full fight with chat windows, upload soon on youtube.

be sure to not cut anything, and will it show your stats on build you claim u were using? im still waiting for that gold. the moment i offered to use kittene build i used on dummie u left. not using for fun in spvp, necro enjoyed nice 5 crit 4to 6k in a row

“I really do not need to prove anything: or w8, come on sPvP, if you can kill me with HS spam i pay you 200g”

You kill my friend “stationary” Ele with HS spam ? Hmm no. So why should I pay you ?

Introp.8465:

Oh lol evilek guy is such waste of time. he didnt have slots for ele, so asked his buddy to duel instead. Got kitten wiped every time, refused to give 200g. epic waste of time

Man this is me character list. And yes your HS spam make 600 600 900 and big crit 3k DMG vs stationary Elementalist with 0 10 0 30 30 Traits. 2.5k Armor.

And yes a don’t pay you 200g because you don’t kill me with HS spam

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Loco.4561:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

Spam 6k DMG Full glass cannon 30/30/0/0/10, 2x sigil of force=10% DMG,Assassin signet +15% DMG,Flaking strike +5% DMG,Improvisation +10% DMG, 20x MIGHT stack, etc. vs light golem 3x crit DMG.

Don’t use sPvP to counter argue damage done in WvW, they are different, scaling is completely different and you can’t achieved anywhere near the same stat combos, so it’s worthless.

As for your armor, for today’s meta I’d consider anything under2500 Armor as a glass build and I’m surprised you weren’t hit for me. Proper full glass thieves would down you in under 2 seconds with their normal steal>C&D>backstab chain with that low armor. On the flip side, you can (if you can catch them) sneeze on them and they would likely die :p

WoW i hit so hard with full ascendent + legendary in WvWvW, HS SPAM IS REALLY OP !!!

You like pictures? here, made some in spvp
http://i.imgur.com/k5nHwfl.jpg
on this one you can see 5 hs spam damage – 4 hits for 3k+ and anfter health threshold you start dishing out 6k+. Keep in mind this damage done in roughly 5s
after that follow real scenario – backstab into hs. 1 backstab and 2 hs target down, 2-3s.
(yes this build would not work in real life, but somehow without 20 might stacks and other stuff i managed to do bigger hits, means you tried to make the as low as possible trying to trick others)
After that follows example on medium ( my initial back stab somehow was lower than before, managed to 3 shot medium same as light but anyways, damage still there, down time – 3-4s.)

here is screenshot on indestructible golem
http://i.imgur.com/Di61tcQ.jpg ( damage done when he is lower than 50% ofc, to show potential of spam)

http://imgur.com/O1945EV
another one on moving heavy golem. ( starts with backstab).
all i did is land first back stab, folloing pressing 2 2 2 2 2 ( not moving abit, not even turning, he walked path around corners, i did follow him auto, just pressing 2 button on same interval

and unlike you, i didnt even use assassin signets active

I uploaded my 10 min test on youtube for you. Upload time 30 min +-

why do i need that? i just did it myself. and your full glass non viable build with 20 might stacks does 6k while i go over 7k without it, wonder why? nut even using assasins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUKrdwZxZKk

27x HS 3x 6k+ DMG. HS spam is really OP.

oh those kitten hits counts as 3k? ok. so you showed how you kill light amor target with hs spam in 3-4s in 3-4 hits. do you think this video helps you? lol.
and people will use backstab before hs, so you start dishing out those 6k crits asap, being above threshold.
Im srsly confused what you were trying to show in your vid, that hs is actually op? you did it fine

Do not be funny. This is full glass cannon with 20x might stack without defensive skills and hitting enemy in the back side with scholar runes vs low armor target.

One single dodge roll evade two HS, one single (daze,stun.imob etc) destroid this HS spam Thief.

And of course L2P

OH, failed on your video, now this? this is so pathetic. unintetionally you yourself proved about hs damage, now you will rely on evade argument? you cant evaded 5 times even after evade you can get hit.and 1 single stun? – pick one single stun braker lol. you build sucks kitten tbh, mine even worked in spvp to some degree, so yeah, and mine did more damage on crits low life less from 100 to 50%, but no one ever spams hs on full hp, you bring enemy to 50% and then spam away

I really do not need to prove anything: or w8, come on sPvP, if you can kill me with HS spam i pay you 200g

BTW waiting for you

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Loco.4561:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

Spam 6k DMG Full glass cannon 30/30/0/0/10, 2x sigil of force=10% DMG,Assassin signet +15% DMG,Flaking strike +5% DMG,Improvisation +10% DMG, 20x MIGHT stack, etc. vs light golem 3x crit DMG.

Don’t use sPvP to counter argue damage done in WvW, they are different, scaling is completely different and you can’t achieved anywhere near the same stat combos, so it’s worthless.

As for your armor, for today’s meta I’d consider anything under2500 Armor as a glass build and I’m surprised you weren’t hit for me. Proper full glass thieves would down you in under 2 seconds with their normal steal>C&D>backstab chain with that low armor. On the flip side, you can (if you can catch them) sneeze on them and they would likely die :p

WoW i hit so hard with full ascendent + legendary in WvWvW, HS SPAM IS REALLY OP !!!

You like pictures? here, made some in spvp
http://i.imgur.com/k5nHwfl.jpg
on this one you can see 5 hs spam damage – 4 hits for 3k+ and anfter health threshold you start dishing out 6k+. Keep in mind this damage done in roughly 5s
after that follow real scenario – backstab into hs. 1 backstab and 2 hs target down, 2-3s.
(yes this build would not work in real life, but somehow without 20 might stacks and other stuff i managed to do bigger hits, means you tried to make the as low as possible trying to trick others)
After that follows example on medium ( my initial back stab somehow was lower than before, managed to 3 shot medium same as light but anyways, damage still there, down time – 3-4s.)

here is screenshot on indestructible golem
http://i.imgur.com/Di61tcQ.jpg ( damage done when he is lower than 50% ofc, to show potential of spam)

http://imgur.com/O1945EV
another one on moving heavy golem. ( starts with backstab).
all i did is land first back stab, folloing pressing 2 2 2 2 2 ( not moving abit, not even turning, he walked path around corners, i did follow him auto, just pressing 2 button on same interval

and unlike you, i didnt even use assassin signets active

I uploaded my 10 min test on youtube for you. Upload time 30 min +-

why do i need that? i just did it myself. and your full glass non viable build with 20 might stacks does 6k while i go over 7k without it, wonder why? nut even using assasins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUKrdwZxZKk

27x HS 3x 6k+ DMG. HS spam is really OP.

oh those kitten hits counts as 3k? ok. so you showed how you kill light amor target with hs spam in 3-4s in 3-4 hits. do you think this video helps you? lol.
and people will use backstab before hs, so you start dishing out those 6k crits asap, being above threshold.
Im srsly confused what you were trying to show in your vid, that hs is actually op? you did it fine

Do not be funny. This is full glass cannon with 20x might stack without defensive skills and hitting enemy in the back side with scholar runes vs low armor target.

One single dodge roll evade two HS, one single (daze,stun.imob etc) destroid this HS spam Thief.

And of course L2P

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Loco.4561:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

Spam 6k DMG Full glass cannon 30/30/0/0/10, 2x sigil of force=10% DMG,Assassin signet +15% DMG,Flaking strike +5% DMG,Improvisation +10% DMG, 20x MIGHT stack, etc. vs light golem 3x crit DMG.

Don’t use sPvP to counter argue damage done in WvW, they are different, scaling is completely different and you can’t achieved anywhere near the same stat combos, so it’s worthless.

As for your armor, for today’s meta I’d consider anything under2500 Armor as a glass build and I’m surprised you weren’t hit for me. Proper full glass thieves would down you in under 2 seconds with their normal steal>C&D>backstab chain with that low armor. On the flip side, you can (if you can catch them) sneeze on them and they would likely die :p

WoW i hit so hard with full ascendent + legendary in WvWvW, HS SPAM IS REALLY OP !!!

You like pictures? here, made some in spvp
http://i.imgur.com/k5nHwfl.jpg
on this one you can see 5 hs spam damage – 4 hits for 3k+ and anfter health threshold you start dishing out 6k+. Keep in mind this damage done in roughly 5s
after that follow real scenario – backstab into hs. 1 backstab and 2 hs target down, 2-3s.
(yes this build would not work in real life, but somehow without 20 might stacks and other stuff i managed to do bigger hits, means you tried to make the as low as possible trying to trick others)
After that follows example on medium ( my initial back stab somehow was lower than before, managed to 3 shot medium same as light but anyways, damage still there, down time – 3-4s.)

here is screenshot on indestructible golem
http://i.imgur.com/Di61tcQ.jpg ( damage done when he is lower than 50% ofc, to show potential of spam)

http://imgur.com/O1945EV
another one on moving heavy golem. ( starts with backstab).
all i did is land first back stab, folloing pressing 2 2 2 2 2 ( not moving abit, not even turning, he walked path around corners, i did follow him auto, just pressing 2 button on same interval

and unlike you, i didnt even use assassin signets active

I uploaded my 10 min test on youtube for you. Upload time 30 min +-

why do i need that? i just did it myself. and your full glass non viable build with 20 might stacks does 6k while i go over 7k without it, wonder why? nut even using assasins.

27x HS 3x 6k+ DMG. HS spam is really OP.

Introp.8465:

Evilek.5690:

Loco.4561:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

Spam 6k DMG Full glass cannon 30/30/0/0/10, 2x sigil of force=10% DMG,Assassin signet +15% DMG,Flaking strike +5% DMG,Improvisation +10% DMG, 20x MIGHT stack, etc. vs light golem 3x crit DMG.

Don’t use sPvP to counter argue damage done in WvW, they are different, scaling is completely different and you can’t achieved anywhere near the same stat combos, so it’s worthless.

As for your armor, for today’s meta I’d consider anything under2500 Armor as a glass build and I’m surprised you weren’t hit for me. Proper full glass thieves would down you in under 2 seconds with their normal steal>C&D>backstab chain with that low armor. On the flip side, you can (if you can catch them) sneeze on them and they would likely die :p

WoW i hit so hard with full ascendent + legendary in WvWvW, HS SPAM IS REALLY OP !!!

You like pictures? here, made some in spvp
http://i.imgur.com/k5nHwfl.jpg
on this one you can see 5 hs spam damage – 4 hits for 3k+ and anfter health threshold you start dishing out 6k+. Keep in mind this damage done in roughly 5s
after that follow real scenario – backstab into hs. 1 backstab and 2 hs target down, 2-3s.
(yes this build would not work in real life, but somehow without 20 might stacks and other stuff i managed to do bigger hits, means you tried to make the as low as possible trying to trick others)
After that follows example on medium ( my initial back stab somehow was lower than before, managed to 3 shot medium same as light but anyways, damage still there, down time – 3-4s.)

here is screenshot on indestructible golem
http://i.imgur.com/Di61tcQ.jpg ( damage done when he is lower than 50% ofc, to show potential of spam)

http://imgur.com/O1945EV
another one on moving heavy golem. ( starts with backstab).
all i did is land first back stab, folloing pressing 2 2 2 2 2 ( not moving abit, not even turning, he walked path around corners, i did follow him auto, just pressing 2 button on same interval

and unlike you, i didnt even use assassin signets active

I uploaded my 10 min test on youtube for you. Upload time 30 min +-

Loco.4561:

Evilek.5690:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

Spam 6k DMG Full glass cannon 30/30/0/0/10, 2x sigil of force=10% DMG,Assassin signet +15% DMG,Flaking strike +5% DMG,Improvisation +10% DMG, 20x MIGHT stack, etc. vs light golem 3x crit DMG.

Don’t use sPvP to counter argue damage done in WvW, they are different, scaling is completely different and you can’t achieved anywhere near the same stat combos, so it’s worthless.

As for your armor, for today’s meta I’d consider anything under2500 Armor as a glass build and I’m surprised you weren’t hit for me. Proper full glass thieves would down you in under 2 seconds with their normal steal>C&D>backstab chain with that low armor. On the flip side, you can (if you can catch them) sneeze on them and they would likely die :p

WoW i hit so hard with full ascendent + legendary in WvWvW, HS SPAM IS REALLY OP !!!

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

Spam 6k DMG Full glass cannon 30/30/0/0/10, 2x sigil of force=10% DMG,Assassin signet +15% DMG,Flaking strike +5% DMG,Improvisation +10% DMG, 20x MIGHT stack, etc. vs light golem 3x crit DMG.

And your low DMG Warrior with 5x might stack.