Guild Wars 2

The key difference is that weakness was doubled in strength versus leaked and also weakness for sword AA was kept.

Those are 2 big changes that were indirectly caused by the feedback from this topic. So thanks for the all the support and I got the results I wanted.

it’s a lot better than leaked patch notes.

wow nice, they buffed weakness by quite a bit compared to leaked patch notes and kept in weakness for sword AA. lotus poison is pretty much useless now but with sword AA and shortbow #4 into #2 it’s still a reliable source of weakness. cluster bomb range reduction is still disappointing though..

Lokheit.7943:

Shortbow is a great utility weapon. It’s really useful thanks to the initiative system, cooldowns are shared between both weapon sets, so the thing a Thief should look for on his second set is utility and Shortbow is perfect to bring anything the primary set can’t.

It’s great for supporting a team with combo finishers and weakness, and tagging opponents in a event, but it should never be your primary set as it doesn’t cause enough damage for it.

So no, it doesn’t need any kind of nerf. It’s probably the most balanced weapon we got and it could even get a damage boost and still be fine.

And the example of “range reduction” you gave makes zero sense (it’s like you just wanted to start a discussion about something random for the sake of it and right now I feel like feeding the troll answering here). Why nerf the range (which is 900, with the Thief having zero access to 1200 range weapons) makes any sense? Even Rangers can throw axes with their arms at the same distance Thieves can shoot arrows with a bow!

there’s a possible nerf on range of #2 skill from 1200 to 900 tomorrow. gathering opinion to see whether the nerf would be justified or not.

I don’t want to give my opinion on the matter because I <3 shortbow. You know it.

Do you think it is OP for PvE, WvW, or sPvP/tPvP?

Do you think shortbow deserves any nerfs, for example a range reduction?

I think the general concensus is that S/D is not OP for PvE and WvW.

Why would you transfer to a server just for easy wins? You won’t get any good fights if you coast to a server that is dominating all the other servers. Your rationale for our bandwagoners makes no sense. I thought everyone wanted “good fights”

retal is obviously OP, guardians are just defending this mechanic because they can’t L2P without it.

Hurtappl.6405:

^^^ I thought they were DEF fake? lol
i love these forums
my gut hurts so bad everyday after reading them

Well it is kinda fake since not all the changes made it through. I’m not really wrong.

I’m sure if the real patch notes were leaked I would believe it. It’s just the fake patch notes has so many things that’s wrong with it thats why I thought those changes must be fake and we shall see tomorrow if they will be included or not.

So far none of the changes that made no sense made it through to the real patch notes.

There is a very big difference in “leaked” patch notes and a list of proposed changes (which is what that list really is, just a list of proposed changes).

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It won’t be tomorrow when they remove weakness and stun break from sword and increase initiative cost by 1 on boon removal. No one will ever use sword for any purpose ever.

Ya you’re right, if they nerf it by that much literally noone will use it ever.

However, do you think it is OP currently for WvW/PvE?

Well the key thing is that the leaked patch notes suggest what COULD possibly be in the final patch notes but it is not indicative of the final patch notes.

I think someone else commented that they are a list of possible changes and then the devs decide what to actually include in the final changes.

Right now, I think ANET has done an outstanding job on the trait changes and I really believe ANET will do the right thing for our skills as well.

S/D is widely known to be not OP for WvW/PvE (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Are-S-D-thieves-OP/first#post2273566) and if any nerfs were to happen to it, it should be for PvP only. (And I’m not saying that’s not how it was always gonna be, the leaked patch notes were obviously incomplete with no real separation of PvE and PvP)

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well this pretty much confims that the leaked notes are real

R.I.P. Sword users

Except that there is no need to nerf sword users at all.

Look here for more information: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Are-S-D-thieves-OP/first#post2273566

Honestly , there is no point to be happy for a sword nerf if you’re a real thief. EVEN if sword gets nerfed, you know that D/P is next to get the nerf hammer right?

those notes are too similar to be a coincidence,

I disagree. Like another topic said, a lot of these trait changes are just player suggestions, so obviously they would be similar.

Besides, doesn’t change the fact that no nerfs in the real patch notes (so far) and billions of nerfs in the fake one. ANET knows what they’re doing, unlike the faker who is all nerf happy.

Nah Lotus poison is a trait.

Deadly arts master tier trait.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

crouze.3078:

how about changing it to 20 sec cooldown but make it melee? xD

no that’s terrible

Daendur.2357:

Excalibur.9748:

WvW: not OP. D/P is the best thief set for WvW.

this is your opinion… i think S/D > D/P … 1v1 speaking
for roaming, zerg surfing or anything else, well you have 2 weapon sets….

What is 1v1? Does 1v1 dictate you can’t run off/stealth and heal ad infinitum? If so then S/D is superior…

Let’s come to a mutual understanding here.

WvW: not OP. D/P is the best thief set for WvW.
sPvP: ??
tPvP: ??
PvE: not OP. Warrior and guardian is OP.

Puru.4217:

sorrow.2364:

Excalibur.9748:

Well if ANET is smart they wouldn’t nerf a weapon to “oblivion”

For DanH an increased initiative cost of 1 point on LS is a “nerf to oblivion”.

Let’s not forget the flat removal of weakness and shadow return stun breaker please.

Those 2 nerfs would utterly break sword. Which isn’t a good idea, since it’s our only melee AoE weapon.

sorrow.2364:

Excalibur.9748:

Well if ANET is smart they wouldn’t nerf a weapon to “oblivion”

For DanH an increased initiative cost of 1 point on LS is a “nerf to oblivion”.

That nerf by itself is fine, I can almost agree with it. It’s the one taking out weakness from autoattack that I definately can’t agree with. It makes no sense at all.

Shadow return should remain a stun break imo as it is too critical to sword gameplay. It’s alreadyt been nerfed a couple of times indirectly anyways.

Well if ANET is smart they wouldn’t nerf a weapon to “oblivion”

Something happened to this topic, I can’t see the first page without this post.

Alright so these are the real preview of traits:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/sky-pirates-tyria-traits-preview-part-two

It suggests to me either these “leaked” patch notes are fake or ANET is redoing them pretty much all over again and these trait changes are EXCELLENT so far. Good job ANET keep it up.

The key nerf missing here is

Lotus Poison: Increased weakness duration to 4 seconds, but it can only apply once every 20 seconds per target.

This nerf didn’t make any sense , I’m glad it wasn’t real!

DanH.5879:

well, i am happy the sword isn’t nerfed into oblivion…
.
btw, the merciful ambush SHOULD have a CD, just to avoid perma invisible trolls

i am happy, it could have been much worse…
the trait 2 ini on stealth could go into 1, or remove 1 condition after 2 seconds of stealth (not proc-ing instantly), etc.

what do you mean? i didn’t see any skill changes in this preview? But yes, lotus poison was spared? ? !?! not sure since it’s just a preview

All buffs, no nerfs in this preview. Let’s hope it continues.

I have faith in you ANET!

Thief got pigeon holed into perma stealth.

no point since it’s fake

Einlanzer.1627:

Between the terminology, the robustness, the format, and the specific things they addressed, it’s very likely that they’re real in the sense that they came from Anet, but it’s also likely they’re an early draft not exactly what we’ll see on Tuesday.

I disagree. More likely they were prepared by a couple of tPvP guys.

Fuzzion.2504:

Excalibur.9748:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Tbh if this is fake, then it took the faker many long days to make this. Every single thing they promised in SoTg corresponds 100% correctly in this notes. Secondly why could the faker take the time to write down a whole long list of after cast reduces on ele skills? (with the risk of being exposed here, by making even the slightest typo, wich he didnt as far as i can see on the ele notes).

If you guys played gw1, then you know Anet is capable of doing quite big overhauls to professions. And they said this patch would be big… I’ve listened to a lot of ‘SoTG, and you hear interesting stuff there. Like ’while we understand your desire, fellow player, we just are to afraid of making it overpowered like in Beta’. All things i remember from them are again perfectly taken over in this note. I haven’t found a single ‘lie’ in them, that contradicts the developpers quotes.

I give the fake or not fake questions a fair 50/50.

A couple of errors were made in the thief section.

Maybe because the faker mains an ele?

Like we said, its too early to tell. Best thing we can do is discuss what and what you do not like about the incoming changes because let me tell you, Devon is reading our views.

It’s worth discussing if there is a chance these are real patch notes. There’s just too much terrible stuff there to discuss all of them…

They seem to be put together by some tPvP guys who thinks they have a good grasp of the current meta but really don’t understand how some of the other classes they haven’t played, really works. And it’s plainly obvious WvW and PvE wasn’t even in consideration for any of these changes.

If these are PvP only changes, then they make a lot more sense.

I like the ANET approach though, users don’t really know what they actually want most of the times.

SpreadCheeks.3801:

They gotta be real cuz a forum mod would have said something by now or taken them down.

A forum mod doesn’t have to confirm/deny whether the patch notes are true.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Tbh if this is fake, then it took the faker many long days to make this. Every single thing they promised in SoTg corresponds 100% correctly in this notes. Secondly why could the faker take the time to write down a whole long list of after cast reduces on ele skills? (with the risk of being exposed here, by making even the slightest typo, wich he didnt as far as i can see on the ele notes).

If you guys played gw1, then you know Anet is capable of doing quite big overhauls to professions. And they said this patch would be big… I’ve listened to a lot of ‘SoTG, and you hear interesting stuff there. Like ’while we understand your desire, fellow player, we just are to afraid of making it overpowered like in Beta’. All things i remember from them are again perfectly taken over in this note. I haven’t found a single ‘lie’ in them, that contradicts the developpers quotes.

I give the fake or not fake questions a fair 50/50.

A couple of errors were made in the thief section.

Maybe because the faker mains an ele?

Azure Prower.8701:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Meh, those notes are certainly fake. Dam, the person who made them must be laughing pretty hard.

Then that person deserves a medal for putting in so much effort.

A medal for trolling?

I don’t see how a S/P can eat D/P thief.

SharadSun.3089:

Oh man… so much QQ here.

Thieves are still the single most reliable appliers of Weakness, which is now extremely powerful (a flat 12.5% incoming damage decrease: 25% of their hits deal only 50% damage). Shortbow is a liiiittle bit overpowered now, and using an init-regen power/crit build will contribute infinitely more to teamfights now.

Pray tell. How is shortbow OP?

Ghost.2079:

Excalibur.9748:

Yea I mean I’ve seen every patch notes that has been released thus far by ANET.

Very professional. Minimal nerfs. Mostly buffs. And if there is a nerf, they offset it with a buff.

In this patch they obviously ruined S/D and crippled shortbow with basically NOTHING to offset it.

Let’s talk rangers….

I see, as maybe a lot of others see, your points. The ranger pets – yup, seems heavy handed. Hell, mesmers gain access to a new and yet again sneaky condition – a complete double-take moment. Thief S/D – right there with you. The wording, to me, is the catch – “largest balance patch”. They tend to want (success being a different topic) many many combinations to be viable. So often does that mean the strong stuff we use gets driven into the dirt. This hopefully will open up some previously wanted yet not-as-strong combinations in specs. Don’t take that as a defense of Anet on a development end, just an observation. I still question the lack of a denouncement and the leaked patch notes’ validity… wish we knew.

Excalibur.9748:

I’m gonna call it now. The person who made these patch notes mains a warrior, ele, and mesmer and got rolled by BM ranger and S/D thieves one too many times in tPvP (because noone uses S/D in WvW; it’s pretty obvious he plays sPvP/tPvP). That would explain EVERYTHING.

Myself and two of the six or so thieves I run with use S/D in WvW…

And no reason they’d get this Torment condition if that was the case.

That’s pretty interesting. I just haven’t seen any use it then….and I’ve seen a lot of thieves in WvW. Could be that they have it as their backup set that they only use it against bunkers.

Hickeroar.9734:

Excalibur.9748:

Hickeroar.9734:

Excalibur.9748:

Meglobob.8620:

Excalibur.9748:

Hickeroar.9734:

Excalibur.9748:

Meglobob.8620:

Entropy.4732:

Anyone know what “Aftercast” is?

Yes, its the delay before you can activate another skill…

Those, ‘leaked’ notes are internal notes, so are worded differently from the official notes which will appear on the forums soon, they use delay in official notes…

So aftercast = delay…

those patch notes are obviously fake
:facepalm:

If they are, and they very well may be, ANet are probably laughing their heads off at this thread right now.

Some of it I hope is true, some of it I hope is fake fake fake.

If it’s false, it definitely took a lot of effort to accomplish.

I won’t deny that it took a lot of effort, it doesn’t change that it’s fake…

It’s just not how ANET balances classes.

The notes are very similar to what they said in the last SOTG meeting…

That doesn’t make it real. The person who made these up obviously has a relatively good understanding of the current meta but it’s still obvious that it’s fake.

Not saying you’re wrong, but what specifically makes you think it’s fake?

I’ve seen leaked patch notes before since I play diablo 3.

Even for “informal” inhouse patch notes they’re TOOOOO informal. The writing style is basically like an average joe like one of us. Who the hell uses -> arrows even for a tentative patch note?

Multiple nerfs to the same weapon set. Pretty much unprecedented. Nerfs weapon sets that aren’t overpowered, yet buffs the overpowered ones.

Nerfed weakness way too much for PvE. Weakness actually got nerfed in its current state.

Torment is way too underwhelming for how much it was hyped up.

Can’t deny, that’s a pretty compelling set of arguments.

I’ve got a lot more of them in the thief section lol. ANET is a lot better than this. So far they have done everything almost perfectly imo. They wouldn’t screw up their largest balance update like this.

Also, like you said. Where are all the trait changes?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I think they they’re both real and not real. How? Well, let me explain: Through the process of testing and developing balance changes, ideas get thrown around a lot. What we’re seeing from those “leaked” patch notes is a shorthand of considered changes and ideas that were, at some point, up for consideration by the developers.

Although they are real in that regard, it doesn’t mean they are accurate. The only way to truly know the scale of changes is to see the final live version on the 25th.

Somewhat plausible.

B> Food to not see mesmer clones. I’ll pay 5s for each!

Yea I mean I’ve seen every patch notes that has been released thus far by ANET.

Very professional. Minimal nerfs. Mostly buffs. And if there is a nerf, they offset it with a buff.

In this patch they obviously ruined S/D and crippled shortbow with basically NOTHING to offset it.

Let’s talk rangers. Their shortbow got neutered since their range got nerfed from 1200 to 900, but they got a 14% damage buff for the utilities on the bar. That’s nothing, it will not make up for the range loss. Their pets got neutered hard. Even though I don’t know much about rangers but still think those nerfs are just way too severe. I’ve fought many rangers, and they are not OP at all.

Now I heard mesmers and ele got buffed. So ANET buffs mesmer, ele (already 2 of the best classes), and nerf ranger and thief? How does that make sense. We’re already lacking in PvE and WvW zerging and they basically destroyed our utility in both of those modes.

What about the fabled mobility boost we were promised in one of the SotG? From what I can see, our mobility got destroyed in this “largest balance patch ever” with the shadow return nerf. How does that align with what they promised?

I don’t think I need to mention about the whole weakness buff??

Weakness condition change

We have a very interesting change coming to Weakness condition. Currently, Weakness decreases endurance regeneration and causes non-critical hits to have a chance to become glancing blows. We wanted this condition to punish spike damage, but it was a bit underwhelming because critical hits, which are essential to spike damage, have previously bypassed Weakness’s effect. Weakness will now cause all hits, both critical and non-critical, to have a chance to become a glancing blow. We went through and rebalanced a lot of the weakness durations for this change. We think this change will make the condition more meaningful and give it much more play.

What buff? I only see a nerf.

I’m gonna call it now. The person who made these patch notes mains a warrior, ele, and mesmer and got rolled by BM ranger and S/D thieves one too many times in tPvP (because noone uses S/D in WvW; it’s pretty obvious he plays sPvP/tPvP). That would explain EVERYTHING.

Draygo.9473:

I wont believe it till anet posts it. But counterpoint to the unprecedented multiple nerfs to the same weapon set:

Anet has said that this is the first MAJOR balance patch so I would expect several nerfs/buffs to same weapons.

Skill and Trait Balance Update

“We’re introducing our largest balance patch ever in this build, which includes significant updates to traits and skills to introduce more viable build diversity. Every single profession trait line is seeing changes and we’ve also made updates to some less popular skills to improve their effectiveness.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/june-25-2013/

Even if it is a huge patch you can not nerf so many things at once and expect people will eat it up. They said they will try not to nerf wherever possible. And they obviously nerfed when it could be avoided…

Also consider things like changing the range from 1200 to 900? That’s a HUGE nerf. And they slap a 14% damage buff on the utility skills? That doesn’t make it up rofl.

Really, this isn’t how ANET does things, guys.

Ghost.2079:

Most any company would quickly denounce they’re validity if they are fake.

Not if they’re getting free feedback to some things they are possibly exploring.

Whoever made these patch notes obviously hates S/D thieves with a burning passion. Probably got rolled repeatedly by them. What a shame…

Dahkeus.8243:

I’ve been reading patch notes since beta and if these “leaked” notes are fake, then they’re really well done since everything is very much in the style of ANet. They would have also been put together rather quickly considering that the announcement on the June 25th changes was made less than a day before I saw the notes come out.

But in the end, it really doesn’t matter if they’re real or not. They make for interesting discussion in a time where there’s not much interesting going on with the game.

nah it goes into too much detail for ANET patch notes which are usually more vague. people are saying they’re “inhouse” patch notes. though i find it extremely unlikely due to how informal it is.

Hickeroar.9734:

Excalibur.9748:

Meglobob.8620:

Excalibur.9748:

Hickeroar.9734:

Excalibur.9748:

Meglobob.8620:

Entropy.4732:

Anyone know what “Aftercast” is?

Yes, its the delay before you can activate another skill…

Those, ‘leaked’ notes are internal notes, so are worded differently from the official notes which will appear on the forums soon, they use delay in official notes…

So aftercast = delay…

those patch notes are obviously fake
:facepalm:

If they are, and they very well may be, ANet are probably laughing their heads off at this thread right now.

Some of it I hope is true, some of it I hope is fake fake fake.

If it’s false, it definitely took a lot of effort to accomplish.

I won’t deny that it took a lot of effort, it doesn’t change that it’s fake…

It’s just not how ANET balances classes.

The notes are very similar to what they said in the last SOTG meeting…

That doesn’t make it real. The person who made these up obviously has a relatively good understanding of the current meta but it’s still obvious that it’s fake.

Not saying you’re wrong, but what specifically makes you think it’s fake?

I’ve seen leaked patch notes before since I play diablo 3.

Even for “informal” inhouse patch notes they’re TOOOOO informal. The writing style is basically like an average joe like one of us. Who the hell uses -> arrows even for a tentative patch note?

Multiple nerfs to the same weapon set. Pretty much unprecedented. Nerfs weapon sets that aren’t overpowered, yet buffs the overpowered ones.

Nerfed weakness way too much for PvE. Weakness actually got nerfed in its current state.

Torment is way too underwhelming for how much it was hyped up.

Meglobob.8620:

Excalibur.9748:

Hickeroar.9734:

Excalibur.9748:

Meglobob.8620:

Entropy.4732:

Anyone know what “Aftercast” is?

Yes, its the delay before you can activate another skill…

Those, ‘leaked’ notes are internal notes, so are worded differently from the official notes which will appear on the forums soon, they use delay in official notes…

So aftercast = delay…

those patch notes are obviously fake
:facepalm:

If they are, and they very well may be, ANet are probably laughing their heads off at this thread right now.

Some of it I hope is true, some of it I hope is fake fake fake.

If it’s false, it definitely took a lot of effort to accomplish.

I won’t deny that it took a lot of effort, it doesn’t change that it’s fake…

It’s just not how ANET balances classes.

The notes are very similar to what they said in the last SOTG meeting…

That doesn’t make it real. The person who made these up obviously has a relatively good understanding of the current meta but it’s still obvious that it’s fake.

I could bet any amount of money that they’re fake. There are so many reasons pointing to that it’s fake.

It’s not the same thing as datamined Diablo 3 patch notes.

Datamined diablo 3 patch notes are pretty much 100% accurate every time.

This is obviously not any sort of data mined patch notes, it’s 100% made up by someone with too much time.

Hickeroar.9734:

Excalibur.9748:

Meglobob.8620:

Entropy.4732:

Anyone know what “Aftercast” is?

Yes, its the delay before you can activate another skill…

Those, ‘leaked’ notes are internal notes, so are worded differently from the official notes which will appear on the forums soon, they use delay in official notes…

So aftercast = delay…

those patch notes are obviously fake
:facepalm:

If they are, and they very well may be, ANet are probably laughing their heads off at this thread right now.

Some of it I hope is true, some of it I hope is fake fake fake.

If it’s false, it definitely took a lot of effort to accomplish.

I won’t deny that it took a lot of effort, it doesn’t change that it’s fake…

It’s just not how ANET balances classes.

They are most definately fake.

Meglobob.8620:

Entropy.4732:

Anyone know what “Aftercast” is?

Yes, its the delay before you can activate another skill…

Those, ‘leaked’ notes are internal notes, so are worded differently from the official notes which will appear on the forums soon, they use delay in official notes…

So aftercast = delay…

those patch notes are obviously fake
:facepalm:

Exactly. You can’t make a 0 into 1 with any amount of buffs. Thief will forever be useless in PvE and WvW.