Guild Wars 2

S/D was not an effective WvW roamer to begin with. It was always a tPvP build.

It gets pwned by mesmer and other thieves in WvW 1on1.

Now it will be useless in tPvP as well.

Travlane.5948:

daendur doesnt play s/d obviously. its a ruined set if even 1 is nerfed like so.

yes i think if even 1 of those nerfs show up S/D is finished.

Travlane.5948:

good point excalibur…i was wondering why the major hate on both weaponsets. 3x each wow. thats alot. prolly alot is fake or anet put this out to see what gets what kind of reaction. then make their final decisions for the cut from those reactions.

3x on S/D and which other weapon set?

evilapprentice.6379:

Daendur.2357:

even if it’s true, sd will still be good.

Assuming patch notes are true, and from a PvP standpoint

In what way? Dropping stun break on SR basically destroys the dodgy thief playstyle. IS/SR is the only reason Sword mainhand works. If you can’t reliably engage and disengage at any time, you’re basically a sitting duck. The only reason an in your face/no stealth build works for a thief (no defensive boons, kittenty regen access, lowest base HP pool) is because SR lets you disengage at any time. Without it, you might as well be a warrior -8k health.

In addition, crippling strike losing weakness is just mind boggling. 1.5 seconds to get to the AA chain finisher and an obvious animation for 2s of weakness was too strong?

No comment on the LS change, tbh – I’m not sure if its undeserved or fair, but it doesn’t matter – the SR change would kill S/D entirely, and the CS change would just be kicking us while we’re down.

nevermind good, S/D won’t even be viable.

Travlane.5948:

@godhammel that build is nice when traited right/geared right but has VERY limited uses….forget about wvw with it as you will only be able to duel….3 people come and ur dead everytime. its only good for spvp. the changes for that build would be nice….but the would have to be 10x better to equal everything else we lost. s/d would be no longer playable…..d/d is no longer playable ….. sb is no longer playable….all we have is p/d bleed and d/p invis BS…… next patch they prolly do a BPS nerf and then all we have is p/d left after that ;/ hope this is far from real. anet is so dumb. they make skills worse rather than making other skills on other classes better. why make a game worse so their can be a level of equality? why not make other classes better and the game more interesting so they can keep up or w.e. you see it as. wouldnt that make morse sense? lets scale allt he dmg down so 100 dmg =1 and no crit attacks do like 500 max. no? well why not? oh yeah it doesnt seem like a big hit with a low number…. well its the same kitten concept with skills….STOP DUMBING THEM DOWN FOR DUMB PLAYERS! you guys at anet need better educations or more broad ones. this is horrible gaming decisions not just on thief but in general. u already dumbed the game down enough from gw1 by taking away build choices/combos so any age can play the game. cool fine i understand its simple marketing decision there when coming to target audience. then you dumb down the skills and the weapon skills every patch to try balance th igns which is what we all want. a general sense of balance or niches for each class at the very least. but nooooooooooo now we are just killing more skills and making the game boring. you know how fun thief used to be? thief was so fun 8 months ago….overpowered a lil yes but thats just a numbers issue not really skill/effect type of thing. so necros cant keep up in 1 v 1? ok so make their AOES +75 radius for a total diameter increase of 150…thats great for them and doesnt make the game worse in the “fun” sense as you didnt nerf bat anyone.

TLDR = buff the classes that need to be beefed up…dont nerf bat the classes that are ok to make the crappier ones seem stronger. this is what is happening since day one….. time to get the heads out ofthe rears and think before this game is dead. im ready to quit soon myself as i am more used to games improving….not downgrading everything everypatch. i do main a thief so maybe i see more nerfs than most but i know everyclass gets soem atleast. make the game better plz. make it stronger….make more combos for every class. lets make it interesting. right now its becomign too formulaic as when build 1 meets build 2 its almost pretty much a predetermined outcome.

ya but 95% these are fake patch notes. ANET doesn’t usually nerf the same weapon set 3 times in the same patch. usually it’s spread out if they do nerfs, like they nerf 1 thing at a time. that is if they nerf and there is usually a buff to go with it.

anyone get the feeling we’re being pigeonholed with every patch instead of expanding our build possibilities?

let’s pray these are not real patch notes.

it’s a fake patch notes…don’t pay any attention to it..

well the patch is fake for sure though so w/e

Daendur.2357:

why?

SD got infiltrator return nerf, auto attack no longer applies weakness, LS initiative cost increased

shortbow cluster bomb ranged decreased to 900 which makes it unable to destroy arrow carts etc on the walls. so useless for its purpose

really hope it’s fake

S/D got 3-4 critical nerfs it’s not useable anymore. shortbow is nerfed like crazy its useless now for WvW

yes i would use this food. 1 silver is nothing.

SharadSun.3089:

Arganthium.5638:

I should explain.

“Bad” is a relative term. He’s great compared to the majority of the community right now. He’s bad relative to what players can and should strive to be, and can achieve. I’m not a particularly good player, but I can theorycraft, and I can affirm that Jumper is making some fairly odd choices.

Relative to the meta, he’s great. Relative to what players will be like as he disappears from the scene and is replaced by more flexible players as the theory and competition within this game increases… If he wants to stick around, he’d better learn to adapt.

Doesn’t that hold true for everyone? =)

We learn and evolve with the meta. The D/D Burst Thief is totally obsolete right now. The S/P Hastewhip is ABYSMALLY obsolete. But months ago, they were meta.

Soon, S/D will join the ranks of D/P as viable-but-not-mandatory. And that’s a good trend to have.

Jumper hijacked the Unicorn build and made it dangerous, then jumped on D/P and made its relative brokenness public. Now he’s done the same with S/D.

I’m not singing his praises at all xD I know far better thieves. But you can’t say that he’s not using the build to its full potential, because that burst with the timing he’s introduced have won Team DM too many matches to ignore.

S/D has a burst?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Is it mobility? No.
Is it auto-attack fix? No.
Is it a weapon set improvement (P/P)? No.

So why do we even care?

Looking at Anet’s track record, this new condition will simply introduce new bugs that will never get fixed.

Let’s fix the current bugs first, neh?

1 more negative condition is always good to have!

Dancing Daggers will probably get it.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

I forsee this change making weakness a lot more useful now that it will make incoming critical hits into glancing blows.

As a thief we have many ways to maintain 100% weakness uptime, for example shortbow #4 – poison cloud combined with DA trait. Sword auto attack #3, etc. Shortbow #4 into #2, etc.

This is a serious L2P issue here. I never lose to thief on my warrior, without even breaking a sweat.

Ridiculous. S/D isn’t even overpowered. Buff our other weapons sets so thief isn’t so useless.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Excalibur.9748:

I think that has more to do like you were stun locked into place when you were using it and due to lag you couldn’t see it. That’s why you see the evade on the screen…

I’m not really sure it’s a bug though

The bug is that we can’t even jump back over a tiny pebble or a tiny bump on the ground. I can understand walls and slopes, but pebbles and bumps?

Why are we even colliding with those?

Is it? Well could be a combination of factors in play here.

Arale.4207:

Toxic.4320:

Venton, scroll up. It was openly admitted that TC was spawn camping because they were bored last night.

The three other exits argument is not valid. Why? Because TC got equally frustrated when SoR spawncamped. I was there.

This saddens me. I don’t know whats going on in WvW, as I’ve taken this week off, but if that’s true, shame on those people. Spawn camping is lame. When it happened to us, we hated it. I don’t see how anyone on TC, unless they’re new transfers or bads, would condone that kind of behavior even if they are that bored. :/

Truly sad.

Well, it’s not deliberate it’s just that we push them all the way back to the spawn. We move back a bit and then push again etc etc. There is nothing we can do if they don’t want to push.

cerberus.1937:

I will agree perma stealth is annoying but what are they actually doing ex running around using all their initiave for stealth?
1 if the break stealth to attack not only are they going to get reveal an do poor dmg due to running complete initiave stealth build, they also lose the ability to call them perma stealth because leaving stealth isn’t perma.
2 Easy fix and would probably make most happy don’t let stealth stop a cap in progress, problem solved.
3 also think making thief more useful in other areas of the game would limit thieves running this, but probably not entirely; trolls will be trolls, but it will help a lot.

1. damage isn’t really that poor. and it doesn’t matter if they break stealth since they can stealth on demand and regen HP whenever they want
2. they nerfed it cuz it was overpowered, really doubt they will revert
3. saying trolls will be trolls doesn’t really solve the problem. yes thieves should be annoying but i think perma stealth is too much considering you can’t stop them from using blinding powder. making thieves useful in other parts of the game may also end up making perma stealth trolls stronger as well which will lead to more QQ and thieves getting nerfed again.

and warrior rifle is longer range as well. it’s like 1500 range about double the range.

Generally more reliable to use it right after a bacwards roll. That just about guarantees it will actually work.

Yes mesmer is the most OP class atm

Mesmer does not need to be any faster, they’re already fast as hell.

I think not mesmer is strong enough

cerberus.1937:

@bhagwad.4281
Lol so if you read I got no problems dealing with thief or memser on ele.,ranger, guard, or even necro so save you l2p advise for yourself since you cant seem to deal with the “stealth” mechanic of thief; thus why you complain and troll so much. one of these days when you make a smart comment based on actually READING something I might listen , but till then have fun trolling; done wasting my time and energy trying to make someone who cant/wont even read understand.

there isn’t really any way to deal with perma stealth from D/P set. it’s cheesy as hell, and has very little counters. it’s probably gonna get nerfed.

I think that has more to do like you were stun locked into place when you were using it and due to lag you couldn’t see it. That’s why you see the evade on the screen…

I’m not really sure it’s a bug though

Is it true that CD doesn’t have enough numbers during NA to field a resistance in EBG?

Cuz every night when I get home I find myself spawn camping CD at their keep. It’s getting kind of old lol

we were supposed to get a huge mobility buff and we’ve only gotten mobility nerfs

Mogar.9216:

I play both mesmer and thief. The best thing you can do to beat a mesmer is CnD his clones. Out stealth him. The mesmer is the one that’s usually at the back, the one that dodges, moves. That being said there are so many viable mesmer builds you really have to adjust your tactics depends on the one your are fighting.

Have you lost to a thief on your mesmer though?

style.6173:

JakobGW.5730:

ykyk.2740:

Oh yes definitely, that’s a natural consequence of having more players (of which a large proportion are from PvE).

I’ve noticed that you guys say this a lot: that you have a large amount of PvE’ers. It certainly seems like you’re implying that this is the reason you have bad players. . . .

That’s all and well, but I can tell you that we don’t even consider guesting on TC anymore when we (God forbid!) have to PvE karma train in Orr. We never see anyone there. Hell, just yesterday we tried to guest on TC to run a few quick CoFs and, of course, the dungeon was contested and no one was anywhere on the map to un-contest it.

In my experience, you have no more PvE’ers than any other T4 server and above.

I don’t think many people run CoF by going to the map and then looking for a team. It is waaaaay faster to just use gw2lfg, form a team, and then the first person that has an uncontested WP starts the dungeon.

It’s immersion-breaking to use gw2lfg.com though. I find groups the old fashioned way still.

Would the match up be better if it was

BG/SoR/TC?

Is JQ stronger than TC?

zerging is cool though. maximum loot, WXP, and kills

eldain stenlund.4306:

I never had any survival problem in pve on wow. while i played my rogue.
not dps or survival. its pve…

Rogues in wow was more of a warrior in leather.
we were fighthing visible.. we opened in stealth to get abit head start.
But after that we had to go face to face and use our other tools.

We only had 1 stealth escape if things went realy bad. vanish.. on a long cooldown.
(1.5 – 2 min).
and still a bleeding or a dot or any kind of aoe, took us out of stealth also.

the question is: Why doesnt A-net learn from wow or other games.

the resilience was a realy big nerf for the rogue in wow. since they are the class that was made for critical burst dmg.
And still, rogues was fine.
we just had to learn how to play against these harder armors.

Vitality and thoughness doesnt work in GW2…
so what is needed then ??
(it might have slight effect if you sacrifice everything for vitality and thoughness)

I see 3 ways to get thieves in line with others.
*Either you put in a new stat to gears, similar to resilience. (good and bad).
*Give more armor to all classes. will help survive both pve and pvp…
*Nerf thief dmg as they have now… (will mostly result in a long bad consequense).

best of 3 bad things is the resilience.
something that takes away abit of the burst skill dmg… just make sure you classify the backstab and killshot or any super high crit dmg into “burst skill”. so it gets affected by the resiliense.

or you could, you know, L2P like the rest of us have.

because thieves are annoying as hell to fight against. they’re really fun to play though (superior mobility, disengage at any time).

only class that is more annoying to fight against might be mesmer, but then again you can actually run from mesmer. it’s harder to run from a thief. basically that makes thief the most annoying class to fight against.

yay another perma-stealth troll set, that’s even better than D/P since it’s also ranged with no way to avoid it!

stof.9341:

I’d like the orbs to come back with monetary, karma, points and maybe wxp bonuses, and giving the sides that do not control them combat bonuses to balance it :p

This is something I’d love to see in WvW more often : give bonuses to the losing teams! It gives the losing team some hope and if carefully tuned, nothing else. A really strong server currently can control the whole maps easily. With bonuses to the losers, they’d control 3/4 of the map? We can still associate that with a really strong server anyway so why note throw a bone to the loosing servers and give them some stuff to claim as their own?

then strongest team would just let the weaker teams take the orb for the stat bonuses and be even stronger.

Yea the thief needs to be balanced….so that it’s not dead last in the rankings for WvW.

Le Rooster.8715:

Excalibur.9748:

Kinda want SoR back now.

This week is pretty boring lol. I guess we finally understand how SoR feels now. Except even worse.

I could have swore last week TC was complaining about how OP SoR was.

I don’t know.

I had a lot of fun last week when up against SoR.

Kinda want SoR back now.

This week is pretty boring lol. I guess we finally understand how SoR feels now. Except even worse.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Most people are ignorant on these forums, and you cannot argue that. Anyone that places Engineer in a bottom tier in WvW knows not what they do. Honestly practically every class is on the same tier save Necro (which is low tier only in WvW), Mesmer (High tier), and Thief (High tier)

Based on their capabilities and problems. Thief is virtually invincible, and can provide alot more than most people think.

I think I agree with you. In terms of survivability, mobility, and damage I think the thief is quite good at all those. But for some reason on any ranking list we end up dead last. I think it’s because we don’t have useful combo fields so we’re always dead last in those rankings.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Thieves and Rangers are actually quite useful in dungeons/fractals if they’re good enough. I agree that Thieves are bad in PvP and could use a serious buff to their other weapon sets. Thieves are simply far too good in WvW. I’ve seen coordinated Thief teams actually melt a zerg.

Look at the class ranking for WvW again. Thief is dead last in most people’s lists.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Rate-classes-in-WvW/first

If stealth = shadow form then perma stealth = god mode.

I think the QQ would be even worse than now.

Honestly it’s very difficult. I think for this match up advantage goes to mesmer. Obviously if you are more skilled than the mesmer you can win but if equal skill levels the mesmer will win.

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly the numbers speak for themselves, and anyone who does a significant amount of WvW has seen it. Roaming is almost the “fight thieves” mode of the game at this point. Which exacerbates the problem even further.

Fighting a thief 1v1 isn’t that horrific if you know their mechanics (play one, if only to learn), yes they can reset but most give up if you brush them off 2/3 times and many will get greedy and die. But many players who could handle a 1v2 against other classes will get wrecked by a pair of even somewhat competent thieves.

If the cause were all other Thief builds sucking, their population wouldn’t have ballooned like this. Don’t get me wrong, they need more build diversity (like a lot of classes) but stealth is out of control at this point. Bring back 4s revealed at least, that should thin their numbers a bit.

Oh and make it so that if you hit someone with the Heartseeker through Black Powder the stealth fails with revealed.

Why do people feel they’re entitled to win 1v2s?

Honestly, if 2 thieves can’t kill 1 player they need to l2p. You should not be able to win against 2 assassin type characters.

Because stealth is UP.

bhagwad.4281:

cerberus.1937:

So you admit its just your own inability to deal with thieves why your asking for all the nerfs? this class annoys me and I don’t like them nerf it……seriously O_o. Also I said that’s the only VIABLE builds we got left you don’t like it but you asked for it by getting us nerfed into these last 2 options only got yourselves to blame. I don’t like saying it but learn to play stealth isn’t the eles invulnerability or the guards block.

Lol – your question is “why the thief hate”. And I told you. I can melt a thief’s face off with my phantasm mesmer. But that doesn’t mean I like thieves. The answer to “why the thief hate” is already in your question. They’re trolls and irritating.

Pot calling kettle black…

meh maybe if your a glass cannon. I dont get that hit that hard considering i evade most hits and has invisibility plus shadow returns.

anyways, the point is a warrior with those stats is a glass cannon and should not be roaming at all.

XII.9401:

Excalibur.9748:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Here is the gear iam using.. and the gear i have been 3 hitted in.
I whould think that 2.5 k armor + 20 k hp, whould be enough…
(edit: it only look like 18.9k on stats. but its actually 19.8 on life bottle/screen).

But it seems that Armor classes in this game are just cosmetics.
I have like 600 – 800 more armor than my elemental, wich is using light…
Now thats just plain weird.

Maybe i live in a different reality…
But i honestly think that heavy metal armors should protect a hell of a lot more than cloth.

in GW2:
my Heavy, metal armor.
is helping to protect me the same as if i whould use recycled toilettpaper…
it doesnt seem to help for schit…

Who does the whole tought processing at A-net ??
Who ever it is, he/she must live in a very very very strange reality.

Just on a side note:
My 1 hand weapons, do the same dmg as my BIG kitten sword and super sledge hammer…???
In my reality, people made BIG 2 handed weapons to inflict a TON more dmg per swing…
My test against lvl 80 wolves. found in wvw. iam traited for rifle. nothing else.
my 1 hand axe. auto crits = 1.800-2.400.
my 2 hand great sword. auto crits = 1.400 – 2.000 umm… wtf… its less… ?? !! ???
my 2 hand hammer. auto crits = 2.400 – 3.100. now we are atleast on the right way…

2.5k armor and 20k HP for a warrior is pretty much glass cannon status.

i have 2.5k armor and 17k HP for my thief and it’s medium armor with the lowest base HP….

You can go full knight and you will still drop. It just takes longer.

Why? Because thieves can reset the fight repeatedly and can get out of any cc/immobilize using spammable shadow steps.

Anyone knows that toughness/vit doesn’t help you against damage as much as protection does. Warriors have no access to it beyond some silly runes.

Sounds to me like warriors are sitting targets and those with tankier gear are ones that just take longer to die.

How about you play a warrior and frap to show us how well you do with tanky gear?

Why not leave roaming to thieves and do what warriors are good at, eg PvE and ZvZ?

eldain stenlund.4306:

Here is the gear iam using.. and the gear i have been 3 hitted in.
I whould think that 2.5 k armor + 20 k hp, whould be enough…
(edit: it only look like 18.9k on stats. but its actually 19.8 on life bottle/screen).

But it seems that Armor classes in this game are just cosmetics.
I have like 600 – 800 more armor than my elemental, wich is using light…
Now thats just plain weird.

Maybe i live in a different reality…
But i honestly think that heavy metal armors should protect a hell of a lot more than cloth.

in GW2:
my Heavy, metal armor.
is helping to protect me the same as if i whould use recycled toilettpaper…
it doesnt seem to help for schit…

Who does the whole tought processing at A-net ??
Who ever it is, he/she must live in a very very very strange reality.

Just on a side note:
My 1 hand weapons, do the same dmg as my BIG kitten sword and super sledge hammer…???
In my reality, people made BIG 2 handed weapons to inflict a TON more dmg per swing…
My test against lvl 80 wolves. found in wvw. iam traited for rifle. nothing else.
my 1 hand axe. auto crits = 1.800-2.400.
my 2 hand great sword. auto crits = 1.400 – 2.000 umm… wtf… its less… ?? !! ???
my 2 hand hammer. auto crits = 2.400 – 3.100. now we are atleast on the right way…

2.5k armor and 20k HP for a warrior is pretty much glass cannon status.

i have 2.5k armor and 17k HP for my thief and it’s medium armor with the lowest base HP….