Mesmers, I would like to welcome you to the world of thieves.
Enjoy the perma-QQ’ing that comes with perma-stealth.
This hate for ya is still young, but don’t worry, the tears wont stop raining even after 3 years. So grab your buckets, glasses, straws, and enjoy the delicious tears.
Exactly this. Mesmer will soon be nerf’ed just like thieve because of all the QQ. Thief is only taken for mobility and mesmer is taken only for portal….
Also, how people value ESL and WTS tourny less indicative than their daily hotjoin. Bascially for them, my being killed in hotjoin is more important than how class perform in highest level of play.
As I see it, there is just very little reason for a player not to take Chronomancer. It essentially takes Mesmer and adds a very very useful extra mechanic. I thought this change would not just add to what Mesmers already have but change how they feel and how they play like the other elite specializations. Mesmer and Chronomancer could play like two separate classes rather than Chronomancer simply feeling like an upgraded Mesmer. As I’ve said earlier, this change could even warrant buffs to CS making it more reliable and useful for defensive play.
With the way they design CS, it is not gonna happen. It is fundamentally too different from distortion.
Also, to make things consistent as you suggest, there should be evolution of all F1-4, not just F4.
And the current F5 CS still makes sense. Eles got 4 new, completely optional extra skills on F1-4. It’s an absolute upgrade w/o sacrificing anything. But if you use them, it has a shared cooldown with the attunement. F5 for mesmer is the same, it’s one extra skill. But if you use it, you use all your clones that can be potentially used for other shatter skills.
P.S You’re right saying that risk/reward ratio should be balanced around the board..but that goes for all professions and not only ele, if we’re too good at holding points, you’re too good at burst..if not among those 20 professions at WTS we would have seen the likes of LB ranger and Med guardian, Thief and mesmer are the main reasons why those specs are not taken, why risk victory by taking inferior builds?….talking about meta shaping specs…yeah thieves and mesmers hold the crown since 2012
WTS boston, Orng won by medi guard, and the medi guard is making very strong impact in the game. Mesmer/thief is not shutting down all other compositions. Really, only TCG is playing that combo.
Also, don’t forget WTS boston was after the cele ele nerf and the spec was brought more in-line with others. Before the nerf, there was also a lot of cry about cele dd ele being too strong.
I guess it’s not coincidence that the Abjured, with two cele dd ele, won the two WTS when the meta showed the spec was too strong.
Do not compare DD ele to bunker guard. Any other meta spec(even mesmer and thief) can contest a point vs. bunker guard. But no spec(except for maybe cele signet necro) can contest a point vs. DD ele.
In reversion’s case, I would never press shatter skills just for a clone. I still play just like how I normally do. It adds something nice but hardly a GM worth.
Well then that’s your failing, not the trait’s.
In practice, builds that use IR can shatter a LOT more than their counterparts, because of the alacrity on shatters.
My pve condi dps increased dramatically with chrono, even giving up the condi damage from Chaos (next BWE I plan to try it out in a dungeon and see if I can keep up with the meta!).
I’ve seen many similar reports from power shatter mesmers: IR lets you shatter more to shatter more because of alacrity.
Then it is mainly alacrity that lets you shatter more, not iReversion. iReversion makes it easier to generate clones so your shatter can potentially do more damage. A good shatter requires setup, not just press F skills when you have enough clones.
And you use PvE as an example which is not indicative enough. Mobs do not know how to evade shatters!
I don’t see how iReversion is play-style defining. Come up with an example that you would not normally do but can do now with iReversion.
This weekend, I have been playing mostly a normal shatter build Dom/Duel/Chrono taking Time Catches Up, iReversion and Seize the Moment. If you swap iReversion and Seize the moment. I will simply take chronophantasm instead of iReversion in my build. The iReversion trait will be dead.
I would even be fine if iReversion is nerf’ed with an iCD or something. But putting it in GM would simply kill it by having it compete with chronophantasm.
Illusionary Reversion is no way as good as deceptive evasion.
It takes only 5 seconds to fill 50% of the dodge bar w/o any vigor. With vigor and energy sigil, it gets even better.
Illusionary Reversion does not have that power. Moving it to GM tier will kill this trait ultimately.
Seize the moment is definitely worth its GM tier slot.
Since the position as master or GM only really influences which trait it is competing with, I think having chronophantasm and iReversion competing is necessary. iReversion may not be as good as DE, but it allows builds which cannot afford dueling to still proc a lot of clones and provides insane clone generation for those who use both.
Then isn’kitten good thing that you can have build taking both reversion and chronophantasm w/o the need of dueling line? Build variety.
I myself have never been able to play a build w/o deceptive evasion. For DE, you use your dodge a lot of times just for the clones, instead of actually evading something. This indeed defines your playstyle as a GM trait. In reversion’s case, I would never press shatter skills just for a clone. I still play just like how I normally do. It adds something nice but hardly a GM worth.
Currently Mental Anguish is the most popular choice. It helps you dish out the best burst damage, which is very helpful in this sustain meta. Because mesmer’s role is usually trying to quickly 2v1 or focus fire in team fight to take out one foe by surprise.
Sadly, yes. Just memorize the combos and you are ok.
Ok until a mesmer comes around and 1-shot you from stealth… or a warrior rampage and beat you to a pulp, or a lich auto attack you 3 times, or a guardian burst you with quickness, or … List goes on and on of overpowered builds from other class, yet everyone complains about the only viable build for ele because they don’t know how to counter it.
If you died to stealth gank/rampage/lich, that only means you are a bad player. Nothing more.
First, they have to fix the individual matchup system to make league meaningful.
Currently, you get matched up with players of drastic skill difference. You get weird profession composition when queuing solo. It just won’t work out for anyone who is not playing with a premade team.
After watching WTS, do you guys srsly think mesmer stealth is OP anymore? Every meta class has find a way to get great sustainability. Stealth is just mesmer’s way of surviving now.
pvp and wvw is a whole different game. Stealth in wvw is way more valuable than in pvp.
I completely agree for wvw roaming. That’s why thief and mesmer have always been the best roaming class no question. But you can’t ask for serious balance for wvw roaming….
After watching WTS, do you guys srsly think mesmer stealth is OP anymore? Every meta class has find a way to get great sustainability. Stealth is just mesmer’s way of surviving now.
After the patch, we have heard so much cry about damage being too high, both direct damage and condie damage.
However, the WTS final shows that meta builds have been even harder to kill than ever. Not just cele ele or bunker guardian. Solider engi survives as well, if not better compared to the old cele engi. Mesmer and thief being protected by additional stealth.
The only possible kill you can get is on warrior, necro and medi guard. But even those three have pretty good tankiness as well. We saw it took ages for a mesmer/thief combo to finish a necro, warrior survives under heavy focus fire during entire game, burn guard has low mobility but still sustain pretty well in team fight. Even moas can’t kill people because of the additional help of vampirism runes.
So is it really damage that should be reduced across the board or is it actually sustain?
Will it be a more exciting game with a bit less regen, stealth and condie clear.
abjured hadnt really lost before right? isnt them losing kind of a neat thing for the community…i was thinking they were kinda like the Pats for a sec there. nice to see they are human…well Toker isnt…
No. They never lost within NA.
But against Orng, the game they just took was the only game they ever took off them, despite that almost every game they played against Orng was really close.
i already lost count of the number of times the necro got ganked and destroyed
I feel like I’m watching a different game than you. Nos rarely died outside of team wipes. He also consistently kept a node decapped or capped, and won his one-on-ones (as he should, because the celestial signet build can’t really lose to any viable builds.)
Yeah, he event beat denshee in a 1v1, yes that amazing 1v1 conquest king DD ele.
Alacrity is the counter part to chill this isn’t a false statement.
The tooltipps might be easy to missunderstand.
Chill makes 3s in real time cool down only 2 seconds of our cooldowns.
Alacrity makes 3s in real time coold down 4 seconds of out cooldowns.
Basically it additionally reduces .33s per second ending up with 1.33s per second while chill does the opposite (adding .33s per second)
I think chill makes 3s cooldown only 1 second, alacrity makes 3s cooldown 5 seconds.
The only thing up to now I found OP is F5 in combination with elite skill. It effectively makes every elite the same cooldown as your F5. Of course, alternatively you can use it twice in a row. Both are pretty strong.
I really don’t want to see F5 getting increased cool down. Maybe it has to be changed so that you can’t use elite after activating F5.
I don’t know. Can you explain how you test this out?
In theory, 1 second of alacrity should give 0.66s extra cdr. Did you accidentally get 2 second of alacrity w/o realizing it?
Played my medi guard tonight and easily butchered every rev I saw.
Then I went to test chronomancer, the condie is kinda strong against mesmer who lacks condie clear. But the pressure is still not as high as say a condie ranger or engi.
Probably need more testing, played for 3 hours…got wrecked so many times because not sure how to use F5 well…..
Regarding balance, the best standard to compare is to the meta build
dom/duel/chaos
So you give up one of confounding suggestion/mental anguish, blind dissipation/deceptive evasion, PU.
You gain F5, chronophantasm or quickness on shatter. How do you evaluate the tradeoff?
This well desperately needs a gravity feeling. It should at least make foes feel hard to escape. That’s what gravity means, dragging you in, preventing escape.
Now players can just walk out in 1 second and laugh. The circle is not even large to begin with. 240 unit. To put it in perspective, ranger and guardian LB5 skill have radius of 360. So this well has 2/3 of the radius which means 4/9 of the area. That’s less than half of the area of those LB 5 skills. And guess what guardian LB5 only has a cooldown of 60 seconds and at least apply some cripple.
It’s really counter-productive if you have to CC someone first to get another CC off as some of you suggested. You really want to CC someone to do damage. Gravity Well at its current form provides nothing useful other than a fancy not-so-big circle.
6 Games in 2 years do not give you good assessment of a class.
That’s basically most of the problem of class imbalance complaints. Most players just pick a certain meta build from some website and did okay after a few games and thought they knew everything inside out.
For example, for mesmer, can you at least try playing w/o PU and playing w/o torch first? You will get a much better idea how the class works.
DD ele is the only spec that is currently too strong because of burning.
Other burning spec usually suck against builds with plenty condie removal and is usually squishy as well. Burning for them is just a burst condie damage. Similar to zerker specs.
DD ele on the other hand, has good physical damage, good burn damage, reasonably tanky, next-level recovery and great mobility. I would say Burn is only a problem on DD ele.
I feel Alacrity might actually be very strong when boosting Phantasm attack CDs rather than the Mesmer’s own CDs. Swordsman for example has 3.5s CD when Hasted, add a bit of Alacrity and you could potentially have the Swordsman attack multiple times in a row.
Also I hope iCap’s damage isn’t low like iDisenchanter. It’s a weapon Phantasm, should deal decent damage. hides iMage
I think it already applies slow, a very strong condition. So it probably won’t have good damage, if any.
Today Dzago went from Medium to High so I guess it updates quite often.
That is interesting, but I wonder how long it took for it to update, maybe a new calculation was started last week and just updated now for example. But I can see at least it doesnt take like a month or w/e to update because of your example.
I think someone saw Fort aspenwood went very high for quite a while and back to full within a day’s time.
Gravity well is essentially trash now. Simply zoning out a small 240 radius area does not justify its 90sec cooldown and elite slot. Its pulsing effect is way too weak.
Do you seriously just place that well under allies’ feet for some stability? Or you place it under opponent’s feet for some minimum damage and they just walk out of it(it takes like 1 second to walk out of 240 circle, and the well takes 3 seconds to have its final effect).
It needs a cripple pulsing effect and a cd at 60sec to see any use.
I’d say… until we see all the elite specs there’s not much sense in speculation. Some of the wells are nice and interesting, but our utility slots are already in high demand…
Why do you have to see all the elite specs to have assessment? At the rate they are announcing the elite spec, it would probably take another 2-3 months and the last one could be announced a couple of weeks before release.
By that time, it is already too late to give them feedback. There won’t be enough time to change anything. And after release, most devs will have to move onto other things.
That’s why they give BWE now. It is for you to test and give feedback early. Let’s make our assessment now so that we can have a better chronomancer at release date.
well of calamity and action will see use easily. Just use them the same way as necro wells, under enemy hammertrain’s feet and laugh.
Much less so for precognition and recall. They have to be placed under allies’ feet to have them benefit. Recall at current state is pretty bad, your allies’ have to stand in there for 3 seconds for 3 seconds of alacrity and that is only 2 seconds skill cdr. Precognition can see some use because unblockable counters some guardian skills. However, it is not that good to justify its long cooldown.
And be ready that both Chronophantasm and Seize the Moment will likely cause a lot of complaints.
But continuum split may not be as easy to use as you think. The time in the shift can scale with the number of clones you have. You can do very limited things in a one second long split duration. Also opponents see you use split, they will get all their dodges/invul/block ready for any crazy offensive attempt you might do.
Just want to remind some of you theory crafting that signet of illusion will probably NOT reset continuum split.
The tool tip of signet of illusion says recharge Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration, Diversion, and Distortion. That means probably just original 4 shatter skills will be recharged. And it makes whole a lot of sense since this skill is only 60s cool down.
Hit me up if you want to do some duels against reaper or tempest, as I’ll be spending most of my time playing around with them, and chronomancer and rev on the side.
Plus its of critical importance to the necro community as to whether the GS will be too slow to hit mobile enemies (like mesmers) and its of criticial importance of the ele community to see how often in practice the overloads will get interrupted.
I feel Necro GS is currently lacking utility. It only has one CC skill. It needs another either CC or mobility skill to be good in PvP. But it should be pretty nice weapon in PvE.
Ele overloads skills is probably more useful in a bit larger scale teamfight scenario. Just like churning earth, you see it being used in GvG but rarely in sPvP, let alone dueling.
I really doubt the traits are still the same as what we were shown originally. It was the first specialization shown, they’ve had a very long time to refine/adjust/change things. So the only thing I’m looking forward to right now is seeing an iteration of traits that are closer to what we’ll actually be getting with HoT. I was most exited about the Chronophantasm trait, so that makes me very pessimistic that it still exists. I’ll bet they’ve done one of the following things to it by now-
Added an ICD to prevent 3 phantasm respawn
Combined it with illusionary reversion so now when you shatter a phantasm you get a clone
Went the confusing combatants route and removed it
As Robert Gee says “So Strong… So Strong…”
On gw2wiki, the current iteration seems to only add a 1sec daze duration on respawned phantasms.
Medi guard, bunker guard, any warrior build, DD ele are all good for starters.
DD ele requires some practise of basic rotation though. But it is by all means the best class in PvP right now.
Also, all the meta builds currently have great survivability. Bunker guard, dd ele, mesmers thieves engis with vampirism runes…Basically you shouldn’t die as long as you do correct play.
Just a note that many guilds are currently leaving SoS. Frankly, it’s a poor time to transfer there as that server is highly unstable, are getting stomped by an overstacked YB and you will pay 1800 gems to transfer as they are ranked very high.
There are some good medium/high server to transfer to if you want. Check out this thread :
The guilds that left are all gvg guilds. If the OP is not really into that type of thing, the nthere is really no problem at all. It also has nothing to do with server stability. Both YB and FA are losing the GvG guilds as well. Most of them are not really involved in the server community.
Sorrow’s Embrace dungeon armor price.
The shoulder price is currently at 300 while leg armor price is only 180.
This seems to be incorrect and needs to be changed to be in-line with all other dungeon armor price
How do you enjoy the large blob fights?
Each skill takes more than 2 seconds to go off. There is nothing you can do if outnumbered
I haven’t played reset for a while. Mostly just roaming in off-hour. Today was the first time in 2 weeks for me to join a zerg. The skill lag still as bad if not worse. Just see red names around w/o the ability to do anything.
Never understand the fact there are so many players willing to form a 50-60 man blob and play through such skill lags.
They already adjusted. The end-result is that a server as stacked as Yaks Bend is gets a full status. And from our understanding, it probably remains so for a long time. Constant checking won’t help at all. A waitlist is for most part unnecessary with current system.
1) Server stacking isn’t why there is no one to play with or against in non prime hours, it is there are too many servers and not enough players to fill all servers for non peak hours.
2) You can have ques on servers during Peak hours and still be able to solo keeps in non prime hours.
3)You can have players that only play during OCX matched up against servers who only play NA prime so both servers get face rolled during different times zones, not due to server stacking.
4) Closing of the full servers does not stop server stacking, they just invade a low server and stack it instead.
5) The people match fixing have multiple accounts on multiple full servers, closing servers does not effect them, it only prevents new players from changing that.
6) You assume you only have one person you wish to play with? I am a leader of multiple guilds, one of which is hundreds of players, I am to ask them all to move and move their family and friends so I can play with my sister? Who would we fight against since most of our players are not peak hour players? Our guild pins multiple maps at once multiple times day since we raid more than one timezone daily. There would not even be anyone to fight during our timezones, what would be the point in that? We would not even be playing as there would be nothing to actually fight on other tiers.
Basically what you are saying is that we already have a very large community that can’t be moved anywhere, but we still want to grow even larger.
But since your community already has that many people, I would call that a very healthy number and that is enough for you to enjoy playing with. Old players indeed slowly phase out and quit the game. But once the number of your community drops to the threshold, the new system will recognize it as very high instead of full. You can recruit back to be your original size again.
The system essentially puts a limit on how big the already large community can grow. IMHO, it is a very good thing. It’s unfortunately human nature in a competitve game mode like WvW to stack onto the already large side to get easy wins. This puts lesser community in a very difficult position. Such natural human behavior will simply make the WvW more and more imbalanced. History of WvW also says so. I am a NA tier 2 players. We always had a short period of balance and then quickly got broken due to bandwagoning. If a full status was put on those bandwagons in time, we would have much less of a problem.
Surely as you said they can stack low servers as well. But stacking on low-populated server is actually not as kittentacking on an already high-populated server. Because now you have an enforced full status that means all the high-populated server will converge towards that norm. Tier after tier will be slowly filled up and reach a balanced state.
We are also cursed by a great utility skill called portal. As long as we still have portal, people will still say mesmer has portal no matter how bad the class gets nerf’ed in its personal fight power.
