Guild Wars 2

Alekt.5803:

Mesmers are so lucky every clone shatters for 8,3k dmg and can’t be dodged.

PS: Serious question: did any ele use icebow in pvp?

I did, and I am super annoyed. It was to deal with Mercy guardians.

^
It’s so lame when I’m playing as a full glass staff ele spamming lava font and Meteor Shower on some revival build and they can still revive their target without a sweat. Ice Storm was the only thing that stopped that from happening for me.

I used it in PvP for Ice Storm (and Deep Freeze to a much lesser extent). Not touching it now. It can go in the trash with the horde of other useless utility skills in this game.

People who are happy about it being nerfed so hard are part of the reason why there are so many useless utilities. All of you should reconsider your ridiculous view point. “Balance” doesn’t mean Smiter’s booning a skill, it means making it gasp balanced.

It should at least only be nerfed in PvE.

I’d rather Wave of Farming get changed to something actually supportive and/or decent, although this change would be nice too.

Black Box.9312:

Our class has too many skills and traits that were nerfed for fear of power creep long ago that haven’t been adjusted to match a changing meta. Given the number of skills we have that are dedicated to healing allies, it just doesn’t make sense for Anet to be introducing other classes and specs that can be really good at healing allies while still leaving us with so many skills that will continue to be unused because of how completely obsolete they are.

This. People should stop pretending that having the option to be decent at healing wasn’t intended for guardians.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t understand why a well rounded, versatile class is all the sudden less useful because the game has a healbot option … if anything, the healbot is the least useful. If I was looking forward to Druid, I would have been very disappointed … it’s a class you play if you team with scrubs. Why that excites anyone, I have no idea.

Healing isn’t there to make bad people decent.

Raven.9603:

Mostly a Ranger here. If I could give you Celestial Avatar (its yours thematically) I would in a heart beat.

Guardians signed up to be guardians. Rangers signed up to be rangers. Now look at us

Exactly what I thought, because obviously guardians would like playing ranger-wannabes while rangers love playing guardian-wannabes. ANet’s typical inscrutable logic.

Entrea Sumatae.7830:

I’m with you here. As a Monk main in GW1, I chose to main a Guardian as the spiritual successor to the class, as well as the one who inherited most of the magical abilities lore-wise. The Druid specialization is… well, pretty much everything I wanted Guardian to be when the game launched. And now it goes to Rangers? I wasn’t really enthused by Dragonhunter, but I was okay with it being a different direction to take Guardians, because I didn’t have to (nor did I plan to) take that option. Or at least I thought I was okay with it, because after the Druid reveal, I honestly feel a little betrayed.

This, exactly this. I was really excited for the guardian’s elite spec before it got revealed because I was hoping for something like monks or the druid. Then DH got revealed, and I was pretty unhappy but I was like “Hey, at least I still have tomes. At least I can kind of be a monk for 20-30 seconds every 3 minutes”. Then those got removed too (followed by half virtue range). At that point I went from “extreme excitement” to “seething rage”, I probably would’ve quit the game for good if it wasn’t for my friends. Now 80% of Tome of Courage is basically being given to rangers followed by a nice healing staff and a full set of healing utilities? “Betrayed” is a perfect way to describe my feelings on this.

It’s more like a somewhat nature-flavoured monk than what a druid typically is, in my opinion.

lordkrall.7241:

Or maybe, just maybe, it wasn’t included because it was directly tied to the Human Gods and thus wouldn’t make all that much sense for any other race?

Yes, this is obviously why there were dwarf and char monks. Last time I checked, all magic came from the bloodstones, not the human gods. Monk “prayers” are no exception.

Kronos.2560:

Surprise!! =P…..

Not a very pleasant surprise. :p

lordkrall.7241:

Healing have existed in the game since release. Why do people keep talking like healing is something that was just revealed with Druid?

True, but the premier support class from GW1 was never included in GW2 because ANet were years too slow to realize their folly, and that really bothers me.

1. Chronomancer
2. Druid
3. Reaper
4. Herald
5. Scrapper
6. Berserker
7. Tempest
8. Daredevil
9. Dragonhunter

because ANet only realized their ridiculous views against healing were stupid a few years later?

Oh, “Live Vicariously”. More monk references, because obviously monks and rangers had so much in common.

Well, maybe we can get it back in a year or two. Thanks for nothing ANet. :>

On one hand, it makes me happy that there’s (what appears to be) a really nice healer. On the other hand, I’m kind of fuming mad that rangers are the class that got this instead of guardians. On top of that, they basically ripped the first two skills on celestial avatar form from Tome of Courage (which I dearly loved). So I really have to give a big “**** you” to ANet. I’m tired of their bullkitten to be honest. :>

They even referenced a monk skill with Seed of Life. I might legit move over to a druid for good.

I like human guardians the most, but I think sylvari and norn seem pretty nice as guardians too.

Sigfodr.9576:

PvE: If you dont get hit by the boss, then you dont need a heal, and if you do get hit, you are dead and cant use a heal, so no reason for full heal or for huge heal every 10 sec. Better with a more often but smaller heal and aegis/something when pressing it.

I don’t remember the last time I got one-shotted by a boss in PvE.

I know a good way to buff it. It’s called deleting it and bringing back Tome of Courage.

I don’t think a warhorn tempest will offer that much healing outside of its water field, but a healing staff ele will bring a lot more than a couple 100 HPS. Think something more along the lines of 2500 HPS, in addition to their water fields.

Kodiak.3281:

But when there’s 4 people damaging for each source of healing (and that’s a very generous 4:1 ratio) the 1 can’t possibly hope to keep up.

Why is this a fair comparison? You can’t seriously expect one healer to out-heal four people. It’s not their job to keep every person alive, it’s their job to keep some people alive. Do you think one glass cannon would be able to out-damage four healers?

Kodiak.3281:

The classic example is the D/D ele in GvG or Zerg groups. It’s fallen completely out of the meta at this point. Even then it’s vastly superior to D/W Tempest because it actually brought damage, blast finishers and and strong boon support.

The warhorn definitely offers far better boon support (is this even debatable?), and in this regard, an off-hand dagger only offers an extra blast finisher on a 45 second cooldown. The warhorn also offers a water field, which is a pretty big plus in WvW.

Wash the Pain Away’s healing value is pretty impressive, and even comparable to the guardian’s Healing Breeze, however, its range kind of puts quite a damper on it. Sometimes even chasing allies around with Healing Breeze is difficult enough, let alone chasing allies around with a 180-360 range heal. I guess it could work decently with Lightning Flash. Really liking the look of the new Rebound though.

Kicast.1459:

put your mouse on you…problem solved
don’t remove the ground targeting please

^

I don’t understand why some people would want to nerf something they’re using just to make it slightly easier to use.

I try my best to pretend that DH is just a bad dream.

Kicast.1459:

Are we talking about change coming in more than one year ?

Possibly. If tomes don’t come back in the next elite spec, then I don’t think I’ll bother hanging on to GW2 for them anymore. :>

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Eh when it comes to what weapons we could possibly get for another spec I highly doubt they would make an off hand into a main hand no matter how much we want them to.

There also are not many other options for what weapons the guardian could get.

Personally if tomes (kits) were to come back I’d love to see the staff get an alternate set of skills that mix long range damage with some support. (ala battle mage meets monk)

An off-hand becoming a main-hand isn’t all that much more unlikely than a currently existing weapon set gaining new skills. Not that I would necessarily object to that either.

Azoqu.8917:

I would gladly give up weapon swap for tomes as kits. Hell, I would also wear light armor as a restriction (not because I want to have choice in wearing different armor skins…) to make it more monk like.

And for those saying Focus mainhand is over powered because it costs less to make, I laugh at that. My 10+ ascended weapon boxes from fractals and the trading post with cheap exotics by the handful beg to differ on it honestly mattering for an end game character advancement.

This. I’d give up weapon swapping and lose heavy armor for tomes without a thought.

I think an off-hand sword would befit a more offense-oriented martial specialization better. An off-hand/main-hand dagger would be nice if it was used as a magical focus like the Mesmer’s greatsword. I still think there are better options though, such as a shortbow, warhorn, or maybe even pistols.

Alternatively, you could just not equip that trait for dungeons.

Karl McLain.5604:

It currently has three pulses and heals for smaller amounts each pulse (skill facts will be visible next beta). Radius is 180, 240, 360. It’s a bit unique in that it heals all allies for the full amount, so long as they receive all three heals (the ele always receives all three).

Ooh, an answer straight from a dev. Time to update the wiki, thanks. :p

Nike.2631:

Rashagar.8349:

Fashion Mage.3712:

- Which new weapon should it allow access to?

Main hand focus, so you can dual-wield books! =D

As cute as that sounds it won’t happen. Main hand and off-hand-only weapons are priced differently at vendor so they’re not gonna let you use an off-hand-only in the main hand.

That reasoning is about as concrete as “The Necromancer elite specialization won’t be called ‘Reaper’ because there’s a title called that already”, and we can see how that turned out. I agree it is somewhat unlikely though, but just not for that reasoning.

Assuming the elite spec stays in line with what tomes are supposed to be, I would imagine it would focus on ranged support since the old tomes essentially let you become the ultimate ranged support. Again, like the old tomes, I think each tome should encompass a different kind of support (offensive support, protective support, healing support). Categorizing the tomes like this would probably let them fit in quite nicely as a replacement to virtues and -as Riot Inducer said- make them akin to an elementalist’s attunements, although how they would work with current virtue traits might not make much sense. Glyphs would be pretty cool as utilities as well, especially if they functioned differently with each tome active.

For it’s weapon, I think a shortbow or main-handed focus would fit in nicely with the theme of ranged/backline support. A warhorn would be okay too, although I think a main-handed or two-handed weapon would be more fitting considering that the class lacks a long-ranged support weapon at all.

As for it’s name, considering that many of the abilities offered by the old tomes were named after monk prayers from GW1, and the fact that the playstyle provided by tomes are similar to that of protection/healing/smiting monks, I think “Monk” would be a pretty fitting name.

Does anyone know the exact range on this? When I tried it, it felt like it was almost melee range despite the fact that all other shouts have 600 range. It made it feel rather clunky for me.

Rashagar.8349:

Fashion Mage.3712:

- Which new weapon should it allow access to?

Main hand focus, so you can dual-wield books! =D

My thoughts exactly. ;p

I don’t care much for most of the Revenant, but Ventari interests me enough that I’ll likely be playing both a guardian and a revenant.

Assuming it ever happens, I thought it’d be interesting to see people’s views on this:
- What do you want and/or expect it to be?
- Which new weapon should it allow access to?
- How should virtues be altered, or what new mechanic should be added on?
- How should tomes function (similar to conjures, kits, old tomes, etc)?
- What should become of Tome of Courage/Tome of Wrath? Should they become utilities, some sort of merged elite, etc?
- What should the elite specialization be called?

Really loving the changes to Ventari, you gave it exactly what was needed to make it decent and reduce all that clunkiness. Feel sorry for fans of Mallyx though; that legend got dumbed down (and possibly gutted) pretty hard. :>

A suggestion for what could’ve been done to prevent the allied cleansing issue. Perhaps each condition could apply a stack of a “ghost condition” for the same duration as the condition. The ghost condition stack wouldn’t do anything besides being there to be counted for the benefit of conditions on the user.

Those new attributes would be quite a good idea in my opinion, perhaps with some changes, but still. I’ve always thought there should be a stat which influences the power of effects like boons and non-damage conditions.

ITT: People only want damage-focused roles.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Azumi.9572:

Contrast that to GW2 and you quickly realize – GW2 doesn’t have a Trinity, no, it simply has the Damage Role.

it actually has one trinity but its not so called “holy trinity of mmo”:
damage, control and support

The only part of that “trinity” that’s upheld in GW2 is damage. The roles of control and support are merely added on as a bit of spice to the primary role of damage that everyone has in PvE.

Mightybird.6034:

gereden.6983:

haha that made me giggle yes its our support weapon but its also our hardest hitting weapon with massive aoe dmg, its as close as a ranged nuker your gunna get on ele without the numbers being insanee :P

Staff is only a nuker in PvE where mobs stay standing in the fields (laval font mostly.) In PvP players aren’t stupid and walk out. Staff is used for the healing and CC not damage.

The staff is used for both. In PvP, utilizing cc from yourself and team members (as well as proper placing of those AoE spells) will get people hit by them. It’s not as easy as in PvE obviously, but it’s certainly not impossible.

Silhouette.5631:

Fashion Mage. Vulnerability is support. CC from Dragons Maw is support. Aegis is support. Check those trap effects again.

Also just because of your name I think it would be good to mention that Im probably ALOT better dressed than you

Learn the differences between the roles of damage, support, and control. The only actually supportive thing there is the trap that provides aegis, and that trap’s functionality is somewhat contradictory because aegis is something that should be timed, not something just placed down and activated at random. CC (crowd control) is control, it isn’t support. Vulnerability is damage, you’re weakening your opponent, not enhancing your ally. They might have similar results, but the means to those results are different.

RebornbyFire.7913:

@Fashion Mage and others complaining about lack of support: Two things — first, half the point of DH is to make it so that “support” is not the only way to play Guardian. Second, and much more importantly, controlling areas and annihilating enemies is totally support. Preventing advance, slowing retreat, area denial, or even outright killing enemies all “support” your allies. If Dragonhunter and traps can reach a point where they do that job and do it well, they will be fantastic and fun for those who can enjoy that playstyle.

Again, control =/= support. I’m not complaining that it has a lack of support, a ranger wannabe is a ranger wannabe after all. I just don’t want people pretending that it offers any significant support.
Not that support is the only way to play guardian already, considering that meditation and burning builds are viable or more than viable.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

There’s definitely not going to be any energy involved in the runes. Runes have to be applicable to all classes. There isn’t a single rune that affects profession mechanics directly (and there shouldn’t be imo).
IE: thre’s no rune triggering “on death shroud” or “when you steal”. Closest one is rune of the warrior with 1 second reduced weapon swap, and everybody can weapon swap (except engies/eles)

Runes of Radiance affect eles almost exclusively.

It’s already a ranger-wannabe, I suppose they might as well go all the way.

Uh, no, traps are selfish because they’re essentially just there to discourage an advance on you. It does kitten all for your allies; it has nothing to do with a PvE mentality. Contrast them with consecrations.

Dragon’s Maw is okay if one’s opponent is out of stability, but I don’t believe it’s worth taking over any of the other elites (except perhaps Signet of Courage).
Most of the traps are persistent effects so dodging out of them won’t render them completely useless, but the traps themselves aren’t all that impressive, and they don’t offer any support or cleansing. Overall I think they’re about as impressive as the rest of the spec.

skarpak.8594:

Snip

…its not about the stats, its about the skills & traits. if skills & traits are enough and do not need to be powered up through stats, why run them?

Regardless of whether you are anti-healing or not, stats do influence your role.

maddoctor.2738:

Kordash.2197:

Silv.9207:

Actually the meta is berserker + might. I you’re not the best dps of the world or don’t give might you’re totally useless.
A good boring meta…

You don’t understand a kitten about the meta.

And this is the main problem with threads about the zerker meta or trinity, players who have no idea on how to play the game come and post their non-sense and things escalate from there.

Might and faceroll dpsing makes up a large part of PvE. I don’t view placing down a wall of reflection every now and then as focusing on the role of “support”. Someone who actually focuses entirely on the role of support would constantly protect, heal, and buff their allies, rather than dpsing 80% of the time and supporting 20% of the time.

It’d be hard to make a ranger wannabe unique without completely scrapping it.

I was wondering what that sounded like. It does sound kind of like Crystal Oasis, nice find.

Kicast.1459:

Leap Of Faith.8263:

I can’t be constructive about this because, I don’t see a way to make Dragon Hunter work without total rework, which is very hard and time consuming for ANet.

This.
I would recommend not to change anything on DH as I do not see how it could not be absolutely pointless. They should spend time more on stuff which need reasonable effort to become decent (in other words: other class)

I agree, no need to polish a broken glass.

Ventari/Glint revenants have some of the strongest support in the game, but I still think support guardians at least rival them and are still better than them in different regards. I’ll be playing both if I get the expansion.

Lyger.5429:

Fashion Mage.3712:

There are also already two weapon traits in Honor, so that logic doesn’t fly either.

I’ve already addressed this in the above post. Also hammer could potentially be support, protection & blast finishers say hello :p

and what if you decide to use consecrations instead of shouts? >v>
The hammer’s support capabilities even with the blast finisher aren’t very significant, at least not compared to the staff.

The trait should either remain active while VoR is on cooldown, have some sort of useful trait merged into it, or it should be scraped entirely for something else. I wouldn’t mind a trait which restores the extra 600 range that virtues used to have; it’d even have interesting synergy with DH virtues.

It not affecting allies while on cooldown makes 0 sense when you consider the philosophy behind guardian virtues, being that the passives are selfish and the actives are selfless.