You should join warsock in the Battle to Let-Go of your anger.
Sounds like something agg would do. Sorry, I prefer PvF roaming over organized zerballs.
Agg Let Go of their anger for Agg.. I think I’ve stepped into the twilight zone…
Everything aside, it’s close-minded people like this that create such hostile environments for games. If you want to roam, play for PPT or GvG, do it. I’m not going to tell you you are wrong for playing a game in a way you enjoy it and no one else should.
Just because you got owned a couple times by Agg in small man groups and had to run back under siege cover to win, just means you need to l2play, holding some grudge against a guild because you are a bad player is just silly. Open your eyes and see that in WvW everyone is family.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
So, in regards to GvG and openfield, I don’t see a lot of “rampant speculation” going on. If nothing else, you chose your words poorly. The complaints about this new system potentially killing the GvG scene is entirely grounded.
This forum and this topic in particular are about WvW. WvW is about sieging and controlling objectives and about open field combat. All our changes are with that totality in mind and will continue to be.
GvG isn’t open field? Never knew.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
In a Best of 7, the first to 4 wins. Agg won the 1st 4 rounds, therefore, the match is over. Everything after that was more or less “practice” rounds that don’t count toward the final score.
Salty tryhards.
You should join warsock in the Battle to Let-Go of your anger.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
only had 40 or so inside bluelake, was also fighting siege razer. Lets exaggerate like no one else was around. Thanks for the large amount of gold you have earned the pug zergs though. We have banned about 15 or so, AGG is larger than that. Justify more please, or better yet come talk on TS
Sounds like you need to let go or at least set up a GvG with Agg – you need to get some of your hate out.. It isn’t healthy. Not sure how you can fight Siegerazer from inside a tower while we are outside though.. that one is puzzling.
Sounds like excuses to me. It’s okay if you’re scared. Happens to the best. But you should not be jealous of ME.
But can we really blame them? They almost lost to RE (3-4), that’s just sad. It’s fine to have only one good trick, Agg are humans too.
In a Best of 7, the first to 4 wins. Agg won the 1st 4 rounds, therefore, the match is over. Everything after that was more or less “practice” rounds that don’t count toward the final score. Don’t knock on RE either, they are very good and pushed/fought hard.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Simulating open field fights include wiping over and over to a Dragonbrand pug zerg with people trolling TS and relaying messages about movement? Once rB can master shady play styles and jerk tendencies we will get into this so called “GvG” ZvZ is more like it though. We all know when GvG actually comes out it will be nothing like this.
How did the “Dragonbrand pug zerg” feel last night after they were wiped outside of Lake? 29v60 btw
Can’t have spies because you banned them all right?
GG
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Any rules on how interference is to be handled? Play-on? Draw?
Interference = losing that particular game. It’s then up to the guild leader to make sure his or her guild doesn’t do it again. We don’t have the ability to create judges, like some people already said in several posts, we have to rely on the honousty and honour of the guild(leader). I thought I read somewhere a post to give spectators a standard spot from where they really can’t interfere with the GvG. Maybe we should look into that. Any suggestions?
My post was more inline with other guilds interfering IE spectators… but yes, I agree that interference results in immediate forfeiture of that Round on 1st offense, match on 2nd. A little harsh but deliberate manipulation of Rounds should be punished harshly.
As for the spectator spot – I would need to hop in the BL and check the sighting because from the windmill you might be able to see all the action.
Guilds could also put their stream(s) in Map/Team chat before the fight so if people wanted to watch and not take up BL space they can.
To talk about Ogre’s Post:
Yes, laying out rules as this could be summed up in 3-4 lines for the “seasoned pros” of the GvG scene.. but we all aren’t. Everything I learned about GvG is purely from watching GvGs, I’ve never actually fought in one for specific reasons. Knowing that there is a solid foundation of rules that I can read over and review any time I want will help expand the number of people who had that desire to create a guild for GvGs but didn’t know where to start.
I think this is a great start and the expansion of the rules should be kept to a minimum to prevent “scope creep” of said rules. GvG should be something easy to get started in, not a huge wall of information you have to take in which might deter you.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
I get what you’re saying, but lets say MYA, sitting at #2 spot, just start declining GvG’s against any of the guilds in the top 10. No sanctions are needed, because the leaderboards mean absolutely nothing, but the community would regard them in a negative light (no disrespect to MYA, purely using you as an example <3)
The leaderboards are pointless anyway. When you can get to #6 by beating 4 guilds in 10v10 from REALLY low tier servers, the whole thing becomes a farce anyway.
I stress again, there is no need to “punish” guilds, as your spot on the leaderboard means nothing. The top 10 on gw2gvg, are NOT the top10 guilds right now in combat.
Why not have just an overall Win-Loss record then, or alphabetical or ordered by last GvG? Why create a pseudo-ranking system that people will drool over when it is pointless?
My whole issue is: since these rankings have been implemented, people who are just now getting into GvG will use them to judge, grief, troll etc other guilds because “you suck” etc.
This is more of a gw2gvg.com issue but it spills over to the forums rather quickly and could really hinder inner-guild relationships if people start getting griefed over some pointless ranking on a website. I’d hate to see people use those rankings to predetermine skill rather than stepping up and fighting them to see for yourself.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
d. Exception on rule 4c: Every player has to clear the stacks they have gathered on weapons/equipment using sigils (ex. Bloodlust) before entering a GvG. Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.
With regards to your 2nd post…
Nobody should be FORCED to GvG. Dodges will happen, but the community has to police itself here. If a guild is known to be dodging many GvG’s, then they look like pricks. No other punishment necessary.
Really, people should take a step away from the leaderboards, and quite frankly, stop giving so much of a kitten. That goes for both sides of the spectrum, people desperate to make it to the top, and those scared to lose rating.
I think I saw someone from VII post saying that they send out 3-4 GvG Requests a week and they ask what guild he is from and the instant he states his guild, he is met with “No” or “Can’t make it” etc. If that happens for a month or essentially there is a boycott against a guild, they’d be dropped or punished. That is completely unfair and I agree with you. You can’t force people to GvG but there does need to be a limit where, if you get the #1 spot, you can’t sit comfortably atop.
If you are “number 1” on whatever ranking system there is, I honestly don’t think you should be allowed to decline ANY request for a fight up to a certain limit per week (1 or 2). If you are Rank 1, you should welcome any chance to prove it and any guild should have the chance to show they can/could beat you.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
“Stacks gained during a previous game of the same GvG can be maintained.”
That’s new. Is this just something that rarely happens because I’ve never seen a fight with stacks. 250 power/prec/healing a big deal and almost creates a snowball effect like Orbs (stronger team becoming stronger etc etc)
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
This is totally our fault, we dropped the ball on this plain and simple. We planned to have this messaged ahead of time to be fair to everyone, communication broke down between those who knew it was supposed to be messaged, and those who were supposed to message it and it simply didn’t happen.
As game director this is ultimately my fault first and foremost, and I’m sorry for those who potentially lost some karma as a result. It is our policy to message these kind of changes ahead of time with lots of warning, I’ll do everything possible to make sure this doesn’t happen in the future.
I’d recommend not using your karma consumables yet, give us a day or two to try and see what options we have available to help mitigate the issue.
You.. I love you…
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
I’ve only ONCE got an event claim ticket for a skin, and it was compete accident when I didn’t even like them.
I think that is the problem, currently I have:
1 Jade ticket
1 Karka Ticket
1 Aether Hammer skin
400 Scraps
1 Golden Scrap
all for skins I don’t want or like. If you like them, you won’t get them. If you could careless, you have to worry about running out of bank space like me.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Multiple occasions last night random people were jumping in and out of the fight, hitting casters and then stealthing away, including people from 1 guild that were fighting.
If you’re referring to the EP vs Agg GvG, you’re incorrect.
Yes, there were thieves attacking casters then stealthing away. They were not spectators. They were part of the GvG team.
Watch the previously posted video from EP’s PoV or the Agg twitch.tv link to see for yourself.
I know there is video from a spectator POV showing someone doing the exact opposite, not apart of the GvG team, purely a spectator (even had stacks). Yet to see if myself but I was there when it occurred.
But yes, spectators need to be controlled.
If you get a link, go ahead and PM it over. I’d love to see it and pass it on.
Of course.
And I’ll be clear – I’m not saying EP cheated or this doesn’t count. EP played a kitten good GvG, I was shocked. I brought this up so that EVERYONE starts to watch spectators to prevent stuff like this from happening and Heaven Forbid, actually effecting the outcome of a match-up.
Your sentiment is right on track, for sure. EP has played a few GvGs that were affected by stands-interference, and I’m sure pretty much every GvG guild has. I’m fully in support of at least all of the members of the two guilds who are fighting moving over to the windmill ramp or something along those lines. That way everyone there can keep a solid eye on each other and no mistrust can take root. It’d be relatively easy to spot a different guild running into the fight.
Of course the proper solution is for ANet to just add in GvG support. :-P
Exactly! Could even put 1 person from each guild in a separate party – both record and discuss anyone who could be interfering, just to have 2 more videos in case something like this was to happen. Yes, it’s another step but having trolls effect the outcome of a good match would just be bad. I noticed EP moved to the windmill I think at Round 5? That was a good move.
As the updates roll to WvW, not to mention Devon’s comments, I don’t think GvG is coming anytime soon. And to be honest, player run game-modes are the best because they are fluid.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Multiple occasions last night random people were jumping in and out of the fight, hitting casters and then stealthing away, including people from 1 guild that were fighting.
If you’re referring to the EP vs Agg GvG, you’re incorrect.
Yes, there were thieves attacking casters then stealthing away. They were not spectators. They were part of the GvG team.
Watch the previously posted video from EP’s PoV or the Agg twitch.tv link to see for yourself.
I know there is video from a spectator POV showing someone doing the exact opposite, not apart of the GvG team, purely a spectator (even had stacks). Yet to see if myself but I was there when it occurred.
But yes, spectators need to be controlled.
If you get a link, go ahead and PM it over. I’d love to see it and pass it on.
Of course.
And I’ll be clear – I’m not saying EP cheated or this doesn’t count. EP played a kitten good GvG, I was shocked. I brought this up so that EVERYONE starts to watch spectators to prevent stuff like this from happening and Heaven Forbid, actually effecting the outcome of a match-up.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Multiple occasions last night random people were jumping in and out of the fight, hitting casters and then stealthing away, including people from 1 guild that were fighting.
If you’re referring to the EP vs Agg GvG, you’re incorrect.
Yes, there were thieves attacking casters then stealthing away. They were not spectators. They were part of the GvG team.
Watch the previously posted video from EP’s PoV or the Agg twitch.tv link to see for yourself.
I know there is video from a spectator POV showing someone doing the exact opposite, not apart of the GvG team, purely a spectator (even had stacks). Yet to see the video myself but I was there when it occurred and watched the thief go in and out.
But yes, spectators need to be controlled.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
If you are a spectator, in a guild that is having a GvG, or just roaming around and come across a fight… DO NOT INTERFERE. Multiple occasions last night random people were jumping in and out of the fight, hitting casters and then stealthing away, including people from 1 guild that were fighting. If you can not control the members of your Guild during a sanctioned, OFFICIAL GvG – you shouldn’t be fighting.
ANY interference makes anything Orge or ANY GM or Member of a GvG guild is trying to do, obsolete.
I’ve been against official rankings but I do see how striving to beat #1 evolves the meta and gives people something to strive for. Any time a “number 1” in any game/sport goes down, they come back stronger than ever. Maybe this will be the fight to become #1 that the NA side needs to put it on par with EU.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).
Just my 2 cents.
Prime Radese
This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.
It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)
Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?
LIGHTBULB!
Shouldnt be setting up fights…should just be having these fights in open field.
Groups/guilds are far more likely to run away in an instantaneous open field fight so they can get the upper-hand… which completely negates any level playing field which a structured GvG standard tries to implement.
Dude, when a fight is in open field, unless we were ever outnumbered 3-1….we didnt run.
Never once did I mentioned you, paxa or any small 5 man guilds.. I put a generalization out there because more times than not, people run.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
The issue with NA guilds moving to EU isn’t the latency or lag, it’s the time change. I wouldn’t wanna stay up to 2am on a weeknight to fight a guild (if I was EU) and I wouldn’t want to have to take off work to fight a guild at 3pm (since I’m NA). Simple as that.
The time differnce is what 5-7 hours, so for an arranged GvG wouldn’t be much of a problem(6pm for you would be 11pm for majority of EU guilds). EU guild members would be willing to stay up a little later for a good GvG. Plus theres always the weekends.
Well if you take Agg, they are a PST guild, that’s north of 7 hours no matter what. If they start at 6pm PST, that’s 1am for you guys (2am for London)
(I pick Agg because they #1 and EU wants them but also bc i know when they play)
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
The biggest thing that bothers me is guilds that are registered to gw2gvg.com, but only accept challenges from guilds they’re sure to beat. That’s just illogical, the challenge is the whole point of a GvG, I could not care less about the rating itself honestly. There is no fun in running over guilds that pose no resistance, I’d rather lose to a good guild.
Also, the rating system makes it so that if you lose to a guild with a much higher rating, you don’t lose that many points. This should be regulated by penalizing guilds that don’t accept challenges (for example, first challenge refused=nothing happens, starting from the next refusal to that same guild within a certain timeframe, the rating of the refusing guild starts to drop, and it does so exponentially for each refusal).
Just my 2 cents.
Prime Radese
This is a legitimate concern. Each Friday as the Match reset happens, we contact all guilds listed as available to organise the weeks GvG’s. The first response is generally “What guild are you from?”. Upon answering it’s a case of “No” for reasons such as “we don’t have enough players” or “key players are on holiday”.
It’s a kick in the teeth to see these guilds running with 30 odd in WvW and GvGing other guilds in the same week they’ve refused you. Starter guilds seem more eager to learn than mid/high table guys are willing to risk their precious points. (IMO these practice/non-official matches that go on are a joke)
Are we approaching a situation where the higher up you go on Gw2GvG the less likely you are to get matches?
LIGHTBULB!
Shouldnt be setting up fights…should just be having these fights in open field.
Groups/guilds are far more likely to run away in an instantaneous open field fight so they can get the upper-hand… which completely negates any level playing field which a structured GvG standard tries to implement.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
I thought being almost 1 year into this game people would just accept spies, supply dumpers and whatnot as apart of the game. Don’t want spies? Don’t have a public teamspeak.
It was pretty disappointing what the best guild NA is spying on pubbie zergs.
If they didn’t hide, they wouldn’t have to spy to find their location… amirite?
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
I don’t “play dress-up” by any means, I use simple WvW skins on my toons or karma stuff.
What I do:
Farm when I can to make a bit of cash.
WvW the rest of the time.
sPvP for daily/monthly for extra ach points
Work on random Ach in my down time (Weapon Master/Slayer currently) while leveling other toons (ranger, necro and guardian to go)
Push myself and test my gameplay by hammering out bad habits, working on boon/condition management or 1vX skills in sPvP. I’m not a keyboard-turner, clicker and I use fast-bast for my AoE. I play with keybindings/mouse-binds to enhance these skills.
I don’t worry about progressing my characters, I only work on progressing myself as a gamer.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Can we get back to Agg spying on DB’s teamspeak drama? That was pretty good one.
Spies?! OH NO!!
I thought being almost 1 year into this game people would just accept spies, supply dumpers and whatnot as apart of the game. Don’t want spies? Don’t have a public teamspeak.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
The issue with NA guilds moving to EU isn’t the latency or lag, it’s the time change. I wouldn’t wanna stay up to 2am on a weeknight to fight a guild (if I was EU) and I wouldn’t want to have to take off work to fight a guild at 3pm (since I’m NA). Simple as that.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
@ LilMcGinley: 371 and you still find this a perfect situation?
I’m sure the person you know who did it that many times wouldn’t think so.
It’s unfair to everyone and this post is my way of letting Anet know that their system stinks and not only for me. The thing is most people don’t even wanna hear about legendary because it’s too much everything and I used to feel the same way until I found one I can’t resist.
Sorry. I meant to say “as someone” as in, it took me 371 tries to do it. And yes, I stand by my belief.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Speaking of ethics or rules – anyone else think ghost tonics should be frowned upon?
Focusing specific players seems like a legitimate tactic to me and preventing it in that manner just seems a bit … underhanded (?)
It’s a counter to your “legitimate tactic”. Why would you give another guild the upper-hand when it’s something you can control? Also, the leader is typically the person jumping in first.
Ghost tonics are and should remain fully allowed.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
So I’ll give TSL view of the situation that happened. Exactly what Odinzu said with us switching with us back and forth fighting Agg. Then on EP last fight of the night people were saying in Mumble that random PYRO, Egg, and [DERP] jumped into the fight when it was in progress. TC audience finally had enough of the kitten and we pushed onto the audience and not on the fight itself.
The issue was that this wasn’t a official GvG and had tons of TC and Mag there not part of the fights and causing havoc. Let’s just set up the official GvGs and let the week go on.
Seems everyone had a part in it. We saw TC jumping and had enough of it, so did y’all.
We heard guilds on TC wanted to “just fight Agg” in open field, which they are more than happy with, turned the corner and there is a map zerg which kind of defeats the purpose of fighting open field.
Note: I’m not in Agg and none of my statements reflect them as a guild or any of their guild members/leaders. I simply run along with them b/c I want them to have my babies.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
So what happened on TC’s end, was there a lack of communication/miscommunication with EP and the other TC players? Just wondering if that situation could’ve been prevented.
-cheers-
No idea. They claimed “miscommunication” but there was very clearly other guilds than EP in the fight so we figured they were just trolling. The Agg & ZN fight preceded this fight, which was over quickly (2 pushes), I figure they just wanted some revenge.
Could have been prevented if TC entire Map wasn’t around the fight, people just love to troll.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
If I was to guess, I would guess the OP was blaming Agg for the meltdown at the windmill that resulted in a big bloody brawl. I do not think Agg started it, more looked like a guild from TC did, but they could have been responding to something that I didn’t see.
Was a lot of fun though, so who cares.
Basically…. what happened was [EP] and [Agg] set up unofficial GvG, 20v20. First round EP brought 30 so Agg pulled away. EP set up again with “20”, I was sitting in the stands while the 2nd fight was going on, random EP started to join in the middle of the fight as well as ZN, TSL/ other randoms… That’s when Agg + pugs decided enough is enough. Agg called in Egg and other pugs to stack up and wipe the TC map zerg and they did just that.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
If you don’t like GvG then you should run your zerg over to their GvGs and farm them. Then they will qq louder and Anet will give them their own arena and everyone will be happy.
Ya, you do that..please do that..last couple times I’ve seen any noobs try to zerg a GvG down, they ended up getting wiped by the 2 teams that combined would have less of half the zerglings numbers
coughJQcough
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
To be fair between both guilds we had about even numbers give or take a few pugs that wandered into the fight
Was fun either way, took us a a little to figure out what to do with that pain train of yours.
Were we even watching the same video?
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
Wait what, so new minor WvW content and changes takes 3-6 months to make and balance while there is PvE patch every 2 weeks with new maps, recepies, features, items, npcs and 100 other things. Im not really into dev hating but just how stupid do you think we are? Atleast be honest and say you dont create content for WvW because you dont get revenues from this.
Please stop with this “every 2 weeks” nonsense. ANet has already said.. they have FOUR TEAMS working on the LS updates, each team taking 1-2 months for all of their content. IE the team that just put out the last update has been working on it since early June. It does not take 2 weeks to develop, test and polish any of the PvE updates. It’s a 4 team, rotation based update schedule.
Yes, so they have like 30 ppl working on PvE content and maybe 2-3 parttime on WvW. This is pretty much the problem.
Because you work for ArenaNet and know the size of their teams… It’s all speculation.
WvW is a massive undertaking to keep balanced. EVERY proposed solution, that posters here just think “oh this is easy to put in”, aren’t very balanced and would screw up WvW worse than it is. Most people don’t think about the thousands of people that play WvW on a daily basis, they only think of how their problem can be fixed on a short-term basis.
WvW is by far the hardest thing to update. New map? Better be perfectly balanced for each server. New orb mechanic? Better be perfectly balanced for T8 and T1 alike, EU and NA.
If ANet just threw out WvW updates without properly balancing them.. No one would play anymore.
NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.
