Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

They are however responsible for the choice of options they offer to me. I don’t need to like what they offer, but they do need to offer what people like. Or they will go out of business.

People like fractals. People like vistas. People like gathering. People like not having to leave WvW in order to get 10 AP. Clearly, they are offering what people like.

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to the whole. They don’t need to offer what you like.

Ohoni.6057:

She changed the thread title so that people don’t have to feel like they’re only allowed to post here because they dislike it, and that the thread is for feedback in general, not just complaining about it.

If people want to start a positive (or neutral) thread on the topic then they can do that, but this thread was started as a negative one, and should remain as such so long as people continue to want to discuss the topic.

And the official authority on the matter decided that the thread should be “the” discussion thread, positive, neutral, or negative, so as to avoid repeat threads on the same subject. It’s not your forum to decide who should post in which threads.

Ashen.2907:

Ohoni.6057:

Hey all. I’ve put together one report on this subject for the devs, and I intend to write up another one after the holiday break.

I’ve changed the subject line to be a bit more neutral and hope that everyone will contribute thoughts on the subject of the new dailies!

Ok, but can we start another thread on the topic “I don’t like the new dailies,” because we are not neutral on the topic.

Yeah, as much as I do like the dailies it seems weird that its somehow disallowed to have an honestly critical (without being offensive) topic title. This really implies that Anet is no longer open to feedback other than positive or neutral.

Gaile didn’t say you can’t dislike the changes in the thread.

She changed the thread title so that people don’t have to feel like they’re only allowed to post here because they dislike it, and that the thread is for feedback in general, not just complaining about it.

Take off the tinfoil hat.

Tachyon.5897:

These new dailies, and the latest LS instalments for that matter, make a mockery of the much vaunted “Guild Wars 2: Play Your Way” mantra.

So did dungeons. I couldn’t get those dungeon armour skins by playing WvW.

And those fractals, having skins impossible to get while running a world boss train.

And those dang PvP rewards, that I can’t get by doing karma train in EOTM.

Get the point?

Serophous.9085:

Filaha.1678:

Karizee.8076:

Filaha.1678:

Dahkeus.8243:

Filaha.1678:

Who’s Ten Ton Hammer again? Literally never heard of them.

Umm, they’ve been around for a long time and do these Best Of MMO reviews every year.

That’s cool.

I still have never heard of them before. And considering the number of video game forums I frequent, that’s a significant achievement.

I used their leveling guides eons ago back in the early days of WoW when you needed to grind mobs in specific areas to level. This was also in the days of Thottbot, may be before your time

Don’t patronize me.

I’m clearly not the only person that’s never heard of them, especially so since I’ve not seen them mentioned on any of the forums I go to before.

Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been going there. Doesn’t make them important.

So if one person hasn’t heard of them, they must not be important?

Yes, that’s correct.

munkiman.3068:

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

The saddest thing is that the whole problem with the new Daily system is 100% self-inflicted by Anet and 100% unnecessarily so.

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

Three of the WvW achievements require either killing a single NPC no harder than a veteran or just standing in a single spot. I have never encountered another player while doing any of those three.

Whether or not someone vehemently refuses to spend a minute killing a single mob or standing in a single spot is not 100% Anet-inflicted.

You’re wrong, this is their game, they dictate how you get rewarded. This self-imposed limit, just because you do all modes doesn’t even apply to 10% of the players, i’d bet on that. Fine you do all modes, great.

This is a kitten game, you try and “force” players to play all modes of your game doesn’t magically make them want to play them. Doesn’t matter how “hard” it is, there is nothing else to say about it. World bosses are easy enough for me, if they hit my playtime. Hoorah, Still the same press 1 fest it’s always been, easy peasy.

For some, it’s the same lesser of 2 evils, that’s how Arena seems to work too. Have fun with that. But it’s not magically going to fix the same problems people have with those modes.

I don’t do all game modes.

But I also don’t blame Arenanet for it. It’s my choice not to do PvP, and I accept that I won’t get the rewards for doing PvP because I chose not to.

Locce.8405:

The saddest thing is that the whole problem with the new Daily system is 100% self-inflicted by Anet and 100% unnecessarily so.

Anet is not responsible for your choice of things you refuse to do.

Three of the WvW achievements require either killing a single NPC no harder than a veteran or just standing in a single spot. I have never encountered another player while doing any of those three.

Whether or not someone vehemently refuses to spend a minute killing a single mob or standing in a single spot is not 100% Anet-inflicted.

Guhracie.3419:

Could we try to get to the overall picture again? My premise is that we’re looking at a much more restrictive game system in GW2 than we were last year at this time,

Here’s the problem:

There’s only one thing that I can agree with, off the top of my head, that is objectively significantly restrictive, and that’s the traits, which I have complained about before.

The daily system is not objectively restrictive. If one does not care about APs or has already hit the cap, any restrictions are moot. If one only cared about laurels or the other rewards from dailies, those come from the login rewards, so any restrictions through dailies are moot. If one plays only PvP or WvW, they weren’t going to get 10 AP per day previously, whereas now they can, so there are less restrictions.

There’s only one type of person who is restricted by the new daily system, and that’s the stubborn person who thinks they should get rewards for not going out of their way at all just because that’s how it worked before . It’s hard for me to feel sorry for those people, though, when they act like the world is ending because they might have to dip into WvW for a few seconds. Pro-tip, people: Nobody guards sentries, and dolyaks are easy to kill without a group. Land Claimer, Master of Ruins, and Caravan Disruptor are incredibly easy and fast, even if you only PvE, as long as you can kill a single veteran (and dolyaks aren’t even that). You probably won’t even SEE an enemy player unless you’re up against a server who camps sentries for some reason. Master of Ruins doesn’t even involve a single kill, just going to a specific location on your map and standing there for a minute.

It’d be like a WvW player complaining that they can’t do their WvW dailies so they have to go check out a vista in the Shiverpeaks.

Knowing how easy the dailies in WvW frequently are, it’s really, REALLY hard for me to take the complaints seriously.

Karizee.8076:

Filaha.1678:

Dahkeus.8243:

Filaha.1678:

Who’s Ten Ton Hammer again? Literally never heard of them.

Umm, they’ve been around for a long time and do these Best Of MMO reviews every year.

That’s cool.

I still have never heard of them before. And considering the number of video game forums I frequent, that’s a significant achievement.

I used their leveling guides eons ago back in the early days of WoW when you needed to grind mobs in specific areas to level. This was also in the days of Thottbot, may be before your time

Don’t patronize me.

I’m clearly not the only person that’s never heard of them, especially so since I’ve not seen them mentioned on any of the forums I go to before.

Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been going there. Doesn’t make them important.

Dahkeus.8243:

Filaha.1678:

Who’s Ten Ton Hammer again? Literally never heard of them.

Umm, they’ve been around for a long time and do these Best Of MMO reviews every year.

That’s cool.

I still have never heard of them before. And considering the number of video game forums I frequent, that’s a significant achievement.

Ohoni.6057:

Too bad the point I was arguing was, specifically, about laurels, so what other choices were removed is irrelevant to my particular argument.

Then your particular argument isn’t a particularly relevant one.

Freedom in choosing how you want to play without worrying about whether or not it will get you laurels, to a person who specifically said:

With me only wanting the laurels

is somehow irrelevant to the discussion of freedom of choice in the game?

No, I would say that having more freedom of choice in one aspect of the game is entirely relevant to the implication that the whole philosophy of the game is shifting to less choice.

You can choose to disagree, but you’d be wrong.

Ohoni.6057:

The “choice” removed by the new system has nothing to do with laurels. If they want to include laurels with the login rewards then that ’s fine. The choice reduced by the new system is in what activities you do to earn your daily meta.

Too bad the point I was arguing was, specifically, about laurels, so what other choices were removed is irrelevant to my particular argument.

Zero Day.2594:

The “how do I want to spend my playtime not worrying about it at all?”… I guess that comes at a price of choice.

It doesn’t come at a price of choice, though. You can literally choose to spend your entire play time watching your character’s idle animations, which was an impossible choice if you wanted to get laurels before.

So in actual fact, it didn’t cost you choice at all. It gave you more choices. If you wanted your laurel before, you had to choose to do the dailies, which meant going out and doing stuff. Now you can choose not to do stuff, or to do stuff. If you don’t want the laurel to use, you can choose to destroy the bag or use it and just stockpile them until you have 8008135 laurels.

The other weird choice removed, is the choice of getting laurels at all. In the old system you can ignore the whole daily system and choose to not be a part of it at all. Here, you’re part of the daily system whether you want it or not. It’s weird, yeah, but another choice has been removed. True, you can choose to throw out the laurel bags or not.

Which I choose to file under “Reaching for things to argue about” and ignore it, as should anybody that wants to be taken seriously.

Olvendred.3027:

On the OP’s point: I agree, an ingame timer for World Bosses would be good. Doesn’t really have anything to do with the new daily system, though.

There is. You open the extra-special UI by typing /wiki World Boss

>.>

It only looks like an internet browser page.

Zero Day.2594:

yolo swaggins VS Filaha
A fight to the death!!!!

@Filaha
I think what yolo’s getting at is that the new system is more linear in the sense of choice you have for getting said laurels. Meaning you have to login (easier than before, true), if you don’t log in you just delay the laurels. Here, realistically the choice is “do i want to log in today?”
Before, the “choice” came from “do i want to do them?” (like does it fit in with my play style?) and “which do i want to do”. Those two questions aside from “do i want to log in today?”.

YES, it is much easier to get laurels via the new system than the old… since the old required you to do some work (adding in the choice of which “work” you want to do, if any at all), while the new system just needs you to login.

So, yeah, while the new system is technically better in terms of how “easy” and how many (at the end of month) laurels you get… It’s still less choice than the old.

Despite how little or funny you may view this point/reasoning, it’s still showing that there is now a little less choice than before.

I’m aware of that argument. It’s just a terrible argument because it limits its scope to a very specific choice.

Yes, there is no choice in how to get them. That is, however, entirely irrelevant.

Yes, there is only one method to get them, which is by logging in.

What matters is what this extends to, namely that once you have them, it doesn’t matter what you do with the rest of your playtime. Kill world bosses. Go to WvW. Go to PvP. Do fractals. Play the TP. Go caroling with your guild. Commit genocide on all the ambient bunnies. Throw a tea party with your minis. Run around Lion’s Arch naked and perform a mating dance towards all the Charr you see. Do all of the above. It doesn’t matter, because you already have your laurels.

It removes a choice that barely even counts as a choice (since, as people like to point out, you would have gotten your dailies and by extension your laurels by just running around doing events and killing things) in order to give you absolute freedom with your playtime and still get your laurels.

Yes, it removes the choice of “How do I want to get the laurel?”, but it replaces it with the far superior “Now that my laurels are guaranteed, how do I want to spend my playtime not worrying about it at all?”

Guhracie.3419:

One thing I will say about laurels is that it’s an issue of: “I used to be able to get a laurel every single day I could do my dailies, and now they’re time-gated.” It’s working out well enough for me, personally, but it still has the potential to negatively impact other players.

To be fair, I would consider it more of an issue in regards to laurels if it wasn’t for the fact that most things unique to laurel vendors require them in batches where one a day is not really a significantly frequent benefit. If you’re going to spend 30 laurels on an amulet, for example, why does it matter whether you got them one a day for 30 days or all in a bunch at the end of 21? If you’re going to spend them on crafting materials to sell, does it particularly make a difference if you get one bag a day versus 11 bags after a week?

I can’t honestly think of any situation in which one a day makes a real significant difference over bunches every X days.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Filaha.1678:

Previous: You could do WBT for 28 days to get 28 laurels from daily achievements + 10 if monthlies can be done through WBT too.
Current: You could do WBT for 28 days to get 55 laurels from daily log-ins.

You can choose to do the same thing, or anything else in the entire game, and get more laurels in the same amount of time.

How is choice removed?

Right, it isn’t.

Apparently you can’t help but argue wording and cherrypick at the details so I am just going to let you figure it out on your own.

I did figure it out on my own. I answered at the end. No choice is being removed from you. In fact, you are given even more choice, as you don’t need to do WBT on a day if you don’t want to, and still get your laurels. You could run naked through the streets of Lion’s Arch and still get your laurels.

It’s not their fault you don’t want to go into fractals or WvW or PvP to complete your daily set.

yolo swaggins.2570:

@ Filaha

And you try to put words in my mouth to invalidate my point, so we are even.

The topic this thread is about “less choice”. Regardless, how much better the rewards are, it doesn’t change the fact that there is less choice in getting them in this new system.

Nice try though.

Previous: You could do WBT for 28 days to get 28 laurels from daily achievements + 10 if monthlies can be done through WBT too.
Current: You could do WBT for 28 days to get 55 laurels from daily log-ins.

You can choose to do the same thing, or anything else in the entire game, and get more laurels in the same amount of time.

How is choice removed?

Right, it isn’t.

Lakanna.2073:

The fact that players are on th forums complaining instead of in the game playing should be a clue.

Players are also in the game playing instead of being on the forums complaining.

I wonder which has more.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Filaha.1678:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Wow. You guys are hardcore twisting my words.

laokoko.7403:

You just need to login an accumulate of 28 days to get the laurel.

So if you login 28 times in 3 month, you still can get the end rewards.

^ This is the exact reason I am trying to describe to you guys.

The reason you dislike it is because if you log in 28 times at your own pace, you can get 55 laurels? If that was split across two months and you did your dailies each day you logged in and your monthlies each month, you’d still only have 48 laurels compared to 55. The only way the old system would be more beneficial is if you split up your 28 logins over three months, leaving you with a grand total of 3 more laurels. And honestly, if you’re not even logging in 28 times in three months, it seems a bit strange to be concerned with how many laurels you’re getting.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Philosophy-Shift-to-Less-Choice/page/4#post4651384

So you dislike that even though you can get more in the same amount of time while not having to go do anything, whether you world boss train or not, you don’t get them each day, even though the prices of most items through laurels make it mostly irrelevant whether you get them daily or in a batch?

Pardon me if that seems like trying to grasp for a reason to dislike it.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Wow. You guys are hardcore twisting my words.

laokoko.7403:

You just need to login an accumulate of 28 days to get the laurel.

So if you login 28 times in 3 month, you still can get the end rewards.

^ This is the exact reason I am trying to describe to you guys.

The reason you dislike it is because if you log in 28 times at your own pace, you can get 55 laurels? If that was split across two months and you did your dailies each day you logged in and your monthlies each month, you’d still only have 48 laurels compared to 55. The only way the old system would be more beneficial is if you split up your 28 logins over three months, leaving you with a grand total of 3 more laurels. And honestly, if you’re not even logging in 28 times in three months, it seems a bit strange to be concerned with how many laurels you’re getting.

yolo swaggins.2570:

That is part of the problem. With the old system I log in when I want and do what I want and get a laurel.

Now I have to keep logging in or I don’t get laurels.

And you can still log in when you want and do what you want and get laurels. And you had to log in before to get laurels because dailies didn’t do themselves while you were offline.

Either you’re trolling or you really don’t understand the new system, because your complaint doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

I can’t play tall races because run animation speed is always slowed down in, like, every game for some stupid reason. I know they all run at the same actual speed, but it always makes me feel like they’re going so slow, and perception is important to fun. If I feel like I’m taking too long to get somewhere, I’ll have less fun than if I feel like I’m getting places quickly, even if I’m not actually taking any longer.

Who’s Ten Ton Hammer again? Literally never heard of them.

yolo swaggins.2570:

The new system requires me to log on consecutively

Oh, I see the problem.

You think you have to log on consecutively.

You don’t, as stated, in no uncertain terms, in the announcement blog post:

Missed a day because of work, vacation, or a work vacation? No worries, your progress is still there! The next time you log in, you’ll pick up where you left off. The system will only reset once you’ve claimed the 28th and final reward.

I’d love the ability to toggle off everything.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Way to twist my words.

No. The Laurel reward was always there in the old system instead of gated behind login counts. And the old system made it so easy to get what I wanted that I didn’t have to conform to any other playstyle other than my own to get what I wanted.

I’m not twisting anything. I’m using logic. If one cared about acquiring laurels through dailies, then one had to log in each day to do the dailies to get maximum laurels. Missing days would be objectively a decrease in the rate of laurels per day.

Rational armour?

Okay, well, rationally speaking, we’re fighting giants, dragons, monsters, magic-wielders, gunslingers, and other manners of beings. Rationally speaking, any suit of armour you could realistically wear would be entirely useless against a giant or a dragon that’s the size of a house. Medieval armour didn’t even entirely protect them from real weapons like a mace. A giant wielding a tree is not going to be concerned with whether you’re wearing a sheet of metal, a skinned cow, or a skinned sheep. A magic-caster dropping ice chunks the size of boulders will give no craps either.

Therefore, rationally, metal armour is pointless, as one’s best defense is a good offense and good mobility, which a big chunk of heavy metal hinders, rather than aids.

The obvious conclusion, rationally, is that the best armour would be that which gives you greatest mobility, is unlikely to get caught on things (or itself), cannot be tripped over, and won’t get in your way or block your vision. In other words, the rationally best armour would be… skimpy. You won’t trip over a pair of shorts or a bikini, like you would a robe. A pair of briefs won’t restrict your movement, like a suit of heavy metal would. A bikini top or tank top wouldn’t get caught on itself, like a trenchcoat heavy on buckles may.

Rationally speaking, Faren is more appropriately attired for active, evasive combat in his undies than your warrior running around in full plate.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

this system is superior for people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.

I am glad that this 1% will now be a lot happier than the other 90% of casual PvEers who were getting 5-8 AP daily in the old system just for playing the game and without wasting any time on pet tricks. That’s a great way to retain players, I agree.

/sarcasm

Proof of numbers, please.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Filaha.1678:

yolo swaggins.2570:

So now if I want my Laurel, I have to log on each day.

How were you getting your laurels from dailies before if you weren’t logging on each day?

By logging on when I wanted to and then doing boss farm to knock out dailies. Were you here before the dailies update? Because if you were, I don’t know why I would have to explain it to you.

But you had to log on each day to do the dailies for that day. Not logging on would still make you miss laurels and get less than if you had logged on.

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

That’s 21 days out of 30 that I could not get 10 AP without going out of WvW or going out of my way to hunt things in WvW. One day would even drop me to 7, if I completed all the others.

Nice. Guess what? For PvE players, getting 10 AP’s without going into WvW or sPvP was impossible for 30 days out of 30.
Try again.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Because now PVE players can get 10 AP without setting foot into WvW or PvP ever, now making it possible for them to get the maximum available AP rewards without having to set foot into the other two game modes.

I don’t need to try again, because you happily just aided me in proving that this system is superior for people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.

yolo swaggins.2570:

So now if I want my Laurel, I have to log on each day.

How were you getting your laurels from dailies before if you weren’t logging on each day?

I’ve never actually seen a good argument against mounts.

Generally it just seems to revolve around “I don’t want it, so it shouldn’t be in the game”.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Don’t be oblivious, please. You know how dailies were mixed and how limited in quantity PvE-only achievements were. Here’s a list of dailies we would’ve had with the old system today:

Great. That’s one day. Limited sample size to your argument, though. I’m going to go through that list now for 30 days and list the days where I could not get 10 AP without leaving WvW or going out of my way.

Dec 25: Personal Story
Dec 26: Activity
Dec 28: Puzzle Jumper
Dec 29: Kill Variety
Dec 30: Event Mentor
Jan 1: Activity, Shiverpeaks Event, Story Dungeon
Jan 2: Activity
Jan 3: Fractal
Jan 4: Maguuma Killer
Jan 5: Ambient Killer
Jan 6: Costume Brawl
Jan 8: Ambient, Krytan Killer
Jan 11: Kill Variety
Jan 13: Ascalonian Killer
Jan 14: Story Dungeon
Jan 15: Puzzle Jumper
Jan 16: Aquatic Killer
Jan 17: Dungeon
Jan 18: Shiverpeaks Killer
Jan 20: Event Mentor
Jan 22: Fractal

That’s 21 days out of 30 that I could not get 10 AP without going out of WvW or going out of my way to hunt things in WvW. One day would even drop me to 7, if I completed all the others.

I’ll also add that depending on the servers we’re fighting, Reviver and Invasion Defender were a toss-up too. Revives may not happen because either we’re getting steamrolled by zergs or we’re steamrolling others and nobody on my side needs revives (or I don’t get to them in time, or I’m the dead one). I missed several days of Invasion Defender too just because I couldn’t find 10 people to kill because the servers we were fighting were either small or ran away when we came to them.

I didn’t add those, though, because there’s another toss-up one now, too, and I’m being fair. Namely, Keep Capturer. Won’t always be a Keep to capture, and the servers we’re currently fighting both have populations that dwarf ours, so if they’re defending, it’s pretty hard to get in at times.

I also didn’t add in Karma Spender even though I can’t technically spend Karma in WvW, because it’s not significantly out of my way, and I have the karma spendy thing from collections.

You have to bear in mind that I’m not keeping in mind “Well, you’d still get at least some AP”, because right now, with three easy dailies, I get 10. If I can’t reliably get 10 without leaving WvW or going out of my way in WvW, then the previous system is inferior.

Edit: I also didn’t add in Daily Gatherer, which was every day, even though it could potentially require me to go out of my way in WvW. If I’m running with people that day, they’re not going to stop and wait for me to hit some rocks or chop down a tree. If I’m running with a zerg, I have to stay with the zerg.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Filaha.1678:

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was actually trying to point out the hypocrisy of some people who in one breath call it lazy that we could gain a handful of AP through normal play with the previous daily implementation but applaud the new log in rewards and point at those as the answer to all our woes.

That’s not hypocrisy, though. The point is that if you want to be lazy and just get rewards for doing what you were going to do regardless, you already are being rewarded for just doing what you were going to do regardless.

Yes, it is hypocrisy. And it’s not true. I’m not being rewarded for doing what I was going to do regardless. I’m being rewarded for logging in. I can log out, and not do what I was going to do, and I already have the reward. The actual play after the log in is more unrewarding than ever.

So you weren’t going to log in regardless? Kinda hard to get the dailies done without doing that.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I was actually trying to point out the hypocrisy of some people who in one breath call it lazy that we could gain a handful of AP through normal play with the previous daily implementation but applaud the new log in rewards and point at those as the answer to all our woes.

That’s not hypocrisy, though. The point is that if you want to be lazy and just get rewards for doing what you were going to do regardless, you already are being rewarded for just doing what you were going to do regardless.

X T D.6458:

Generally I like the new daily system, wouldnt mind a few tweaks here and there maybe a few extra choices but it hasnt been to bad so far. One thing I would definately change is the zone event daily, this one definately needs to be in line with the others and be a regional daily. Having everyone swarm a zone competing to do events can be very frustrating to people as it causes many to miss events. Simply making it regional would really help with that. And I dont mind the other regional stuff like view/mine stuff in ascalon etc, I used to just do dailies in the same spot, now I get to move around so its kinda nice.

Yeah, I do think that it’s a little bit odd to have a zone specific for events but region specific for something simpler like mining and vistas. If they had to have some zone and some region, I’d say it should be the other way around, as it doesn’t matter how many people are on a map to check out a vista or chop some trees.

pdavis.8031:

1. People already do that with JPs which when part of the old daily/monthly allowed them to complete them without having to do the puzzle. Thus getting the reward without doing anything.

I’m aware. And it’s a good thing to move away from it.

2. I agree, however (as far as the forum goers are concerned ) this interferes with their natural progression of getting the daily achievements just by simply playing the game. It feels like a chore to them.

I just dont think that giving the option to revert back would be a good idea. Perhaps there is another way these 2 things can be reconciled to come up with a viable solution. I just dont know at the moment.

I think it’s the easiest solution. Those that don’t want the superior rewards from the new system can do the old system and get some rewards. Those that don’t mind putting at least some effort in going “out of their comfort zone” can get their better rewards.

Reward effort, not “well, I’m doing it anyways.”

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Incorrect analogy. There were not an equal amount of choices before. You’re misrepresenting the previous system by suggesting that.

Here’s a better analogy.
The shop had 8 toy bears, 2 toy cats, and 2 toy dogs.

No, there were no 8 pve-specific dailies. Most of the dailies were generic, and could have been as easily done in any of the three game modes – which you already know. So, now it’s you that are knowingly misrepresenting your case.

Gathering could have been easily done in PVP? Daily Fractals? Daily Story Dungeon? Personal Story? (Region) Killer? Costume Brawl? Kill Variety? Puzzle Jumper? Aquatic Slayer? Event Mentor?

Heck, the only one of those that could have been done in WvW without going significantly out of your way was Gathering, and even then you had to stop what you were doing and hope you didn’t get jumped while picking flowers.

That’s why I lumped in 8 “PVE” achievements. Because there are many that are simply not achievable in WVW or PVP, making it frequently impossible to get 10 AP in PVP/WVW without leaving them.

pdavis.8031:

Well I think the format for the new dailies is good. Just do 3 and get 10AP. The problem, as discussed at length, is players feel like they have to go out of their way. So instead of making an option to revert back to the “old system” What about just changing the current one so it’s not specific. Instead of “View a vista in Ascalon” It’s just “View a Vista.”. Or maybe increase it so it’s “View 2 Vistas”. This way people don’t feel like they need to go to Ascalon and travel half the map just to get the daily. And also don’t feel like they need to jump into a game mode they are not comfortable with just to get their dailies.

1. Cities count as regions. Heck, even home instances count as regions. I get my mining dailies by going into the home instance in the relative region and mining the nodes. So honestly, I think that that was a bad example of which to make general because that’s the easiest daily that requires no real map running. Additionally, and further against “daily vista”, putting something in that’s that generic and easy would just mean one could leave a character logged out right next to a vista and just log in each day to click it.

2. The reason for not making them all general is that I think it’s a good step to give specific tasks for more rewards. People who are willing to go out of their “standard” play experience should be more rewarded than people who just want to do whatever and get rewarded for it.

So some people, like myself, love the changes because it’s less work for more rewards. Some people dislike the changes because while it may be less work or more rewards, it’s not the kind of work they want to do.

So in order to satisfy both, how about a choice on the log-in reward page when you log in?

The two choices are as follows:

Choice 1: New dailies
Gives you the list of the current daily system.

Choice 2: Generic dailies
Gives you a separate list of 6 or 8 of the previous, generic dailies. Kills, gathering, revives, recycles, etc. Remove things like the old daily fractals or story dungeons and possibly even WvW/PvP-specific dailies (assuming old generic dailies counted in PVP as well). So literally only the generic ones, so if you want specific game mode dailies, you use the new system.

Rewards are based on the choice you make. Choice 1 will give you the current rewards. Choice 2 will give you no reward chests per achievement, and will give you 1 AP per daily complete, no meta.

More rewards for doing specific tasks, minimal reward for doing something you’re doing anyways.

The choice would be made in the log-in reward interface, and you can only choose once per day, so you can’t double-dip rewards.

Would this satisfy the people who want just the generic tasks? Would you be all right with getting lesser rewards for not having to “go out of your way”?

Give feedback, make suggestions for bettering this suggestion.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I’m honestly getting tired of your intricate excuses and word-twisting, Filaha. You’re succeeding in it, I admit, as other posters have already noted it. For now, I’ll just stop at an analogy for this thingie:

Filaha.1678:

12 choices is 12 choices. Personally, I can finally get 10 AP per day without having to leave WvW, whereas before I couldn’t. I now have more choice of how to get 10 AP. You PVEers keep forgetting this.

Different choice =/= less choice.

Previously, the shop had 10 different toy bears, 10 different toy cats, 10 different toy dogs, and 10 different toy foxes.

Now, the shop has 1 toy bear, 1 toy panda, 1 toy cow, 1 toy horse, and even an extra animal type – 1 toy kangaroo! And you’re saying “hooray!” at “different” choices. GJ.

Incorrect analogy. There were not an equal amount of choices before. You’re misrepresenting the previous system by suggesting that.

Here’s a better analogy.
The shop had 8 toy bears, 2 toy cats, and 2 toy dogs.
Now there are 4 toy bears, 4 toy cats, and 4 toy dogs, so that dog lovers and cat lovers can have a bigger choice of toys while bear lovers still have a decent amount of bears to enjoy.

As a cat lover, this situation is clearly beneficial to me, no? As a cat and bear lover, this situation still allows me to get some bears and plenty of cats, too!

Also, to further the point, no matter whether you’re a bear, cat, or dog lover, you still have all your toys at home to play with and you get a toy for free each day, so you don’t necessarily have to buy more toys.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The actual results is that with same effort, you get zero APs.

Correction. The actual result is that if you put more or equal effort into the wrong portion, you get 0 AP. If you put minimal effort into the portions asked, you can get 10.

You don’t have to grind DT to T6 to start getting the rewards. You don’t have to do all dungeon paths to get a daily chest. But you have to do 3 dailies to start getting AP.

3 dailies isn’t all dailies, though. 3 dailies is a quarter of the dailies. So you don’t have to do all dailies to get daily rewards.

You don’t have to even do three dailies to start getting the rewards. You also don’t need to do any more than 1 daily to get the reward box for that daily. You can go view a vista or pick some flowers and get rewards!

So I’m not sure why you’re exaggerating how grievous doing three dailies is by comparing it to getting 100% completed for other aspects.

If. A small problem of a handful of AP hunters.

But all we’re talking about here is ifs, isn’kitten
If you don’t care about AP, you don’t have to do the dailies now, or before. If you don’t care about the reward boxes, you don’t have to do the dailies now.
You only are “forced” into these dailies if you want the rewards for them.

Nice play on words, omitting the “choice of ways to get the reward” part.

12 choices is 12 choices. Personally, I can finally get 10 AP per day without having to leave WvW, whereas before I couldn’t. I now have more choice of how to get 10 AP. You PVEers keep forgetting this.

Different choice =/= less choice.

KarlaGrey.5903:

You know very well that the statement of ‘can get the best gear by means other than crafting’ is disingenious at best, and intentionally misleading at worst.

Bear this in mind before I respond to the rest of the post: I’ve never argued that you’re likely to get useful gear. You have about the same odds of the drop being something useful to you as any random exotic (I assume, unless for some reason certain stat combinations drop more frequently). That being said, I have gotten some useful rings from WvW loot.

Only thing I’ve argued is that objectively, you can obtain ascended gear through means other than crafting, and ascended is the top tier. Period.

Also, bear in mind that ascended equipment includes rings, accessories, and necklaces, all of which can be obtained through laurels, which are obtained by doing whatever you want. People seem to try to focus on armour and weapons and ignore that you can get some of your top-tier gear pieces through a vendor.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

3 dailies gets you the AP of 10 dailies previous.
You also get the bonus box rewards.
On top of the daily log-in rewards.

How is that less?

It’s not, unless you ignore the fact that one has to do the dailies (for 10AP) instead of playing the game as they liked (for 5-8AP)… and – surprise! – you are conveniently ignoring that fact.

And something you “conveniently ignored” from the very post you quoted:

They’re only getting less if they choose to get less. If they put a fraction of the effort spent complaining into doing the dailies, they’d actually end up getting more.

The actual objective facts of the current system is that for some effort, you get more rewards. You only get less if you ignore a certain section of the game.

Except that’s been how it’s worked for how long, now? I mean, I didn’t get Dry Top rewards without going to Dry Top, I didn’t get dungeon rewards without going to a dungeon. Even the old dailies required me to go out of my way if I wanted 10 AP most days.

So let’s put out the real issue here, based on your post here.

The problem isn’t choice. You still can choose what content you want to do. The problem is that when you choose what content you want to do, you’re now getting less rewards (i.e. a handful of AP).

So the real problem here is the rewards, not choice. So why do people keep misrepresenting the problem as having choice removed?

Nothing is stopping you from playing how you want.

fireflyry.7023:

Log in rewards are really a different topic as thats something totally new. I don’t like them, the game should make me want to log in of it’s own accord not because I get a “shinie!!”.

Outside that you missed my point. Rewarding players who log in every day over the previous system of a monthly goal done at ones own pace will put a lot of players off, as this thread clearly shows.

Analogy:

Turn up here every day at a similar time, do the same things over and over, many of which you don’t actually want to do but we make you do in order to garner reward. See you again tomorrow to do it all over again.

What does this remind you of? A game?

I can log in any time I want. I can spend my time doing whatever I want. I don’t have anybody telling me what I must do.

If you’re going to complain about the new daily system making it so that you “have to do the same thing over and over to gather reward”, then you should have been complaining about dungeons, world bosses, Orr, Dry Top, and SW before this. All of those required you to do the same thing over and over to get rewards. IF you wanted the rewards. If you didn’t, you don’t have to. Crazy how you get that choice, but people seem to ignore that it’s a choice.

And why shouldn’t they reward people who want to play the game consistently over a month over people who only want to log in a couple days in a month to get monthlies done?

Personally, I thought the monthly system was stupid. They should have been capped at X amount of progress per day to actually make them last for more of a month. When monthlies can realistically be achieved with a day or two of grinding, that’s not a monthly achievement. That’s a daily that doesn’t cycle as fast. Could have been something like 1 JP a day up to 15. Or 400 salvages/masterwork crafts but only the first 25 per day count. Or 30 champions/group events, but only the first 2 count per day.

Also, PvEers need to get out of their heads that they’re the only ones in the game. I don’t go out of my way at all when I get my WvW achievements. Prior to this, I needed to if I wanted to get 10 AP. Now I don’t.

fireflyry.7023:

So if they treat it like a job they are all good.

k.

Your forgetting the loss of monthlies where people could do things at their own personal pace. This is just “clock in-clock out” work simulation, in a game that markets itself at a casual game-playing market.

It’s meant to be a game kitten .

And now they can get a bunch of rewards by simply logging in, which allows them to do whatever they want at their own personal pace without having to worry about if their personal pace is going to be enough to finish a certain monthly on time!

It is a game. If you’re viewing it as a job, you’re playing it wrong.

Roundabout.1752:

The Bell thing is color coded, so for me that’s out and I’ve tried and tried but I haven’t managed the JP yet and even if I did 15 times is a bit much.

The jumping puzzle is not required for the meta.

The bells are in order from left to right the same way as your skill bar. The skill on the far left is the line on the far left. Colour is irrelevant.

Code.8615:

The thing is, people aren’t complaining because they want more
They’re complaining because they’re suddenly getting less

They’re only getting less if they choose to get less. If they put a fraction of the effort spent complaining into doing the dailies, they’d actually end up getting more.

3 dailies gets you the AP of 10 dailies previous.
You also get the bonus box rewards.
On top of the daily log-in rewards.

How is that less?