Guild Wars 2

Anyandrell.6238:

Filaha.1678:

Anyandrell.6238:

And once again we get shoved in a lvl 1 area (!!!) to do events – Metrica province – and AGAIN fractals. So Anet can say goodbye to any new player who started today and made an Asura as first character.

You’re assuming a new player will be more concerned with getting events done than exploration, and hearts and vistas and such don’t count for the daily, so people aren’t farming those.

Additionally, you’re assuming that someone will be immediately turned off of the game because they see activity, when it could be more of a reason for them to stick around because they see the game is still active with lots of people running around.

You shouldn’t assume you know how every player will feel about anything.

You don’t read the forums much about this, do you? There have been numerous posts EXACTLY about what I said in my post.

I wasn’t aware that every new player has posted in these forums about this.

Oh right, they don’t.

I reiterate. You shouldn’t assume you know how every player will feel about anything.

Anyandrell.6238:

And once again we get shoved in a lvl 1 area (!!!) to do events – Metrica province – and AGAIN fractals. So Anet can say goodbye to any new player who started today and made an Asura as first character.

You’re assuming a new player will be more concerned with getting events done than exploration, and hearts and vistas and such don’t count for the daily, so people aren’t farming those.

Additionally, you’re assuming that someone will be immediately turned off of the game because they see activity, when it could be more of a reason for them to stick around because they see the game is still active with lots of people running around.

You shouldn’t assume you know how every player will feel about anything.

Judging from the chatter in some of Queensdale and in my home instance in DR, Lion’s Arch hasn’t even been destroyed yet, what with whining that the caravan is late and how they should go there instead of the relatives coming to Queensdale.

minbariguy.7504:

Filaha.1678:

The game is not a completely different thing than it started out as, like the club in your analogy.

I’m not saying that it is. However, how different a game is from it’s point of origin to it’s current state is a matter of opinion. And alas, you do not get to decide for someone else if it is different enough to warrant their state of unhappiness. Acting as though you have the right to make that determination on someone else’s behalf only weakens your argument.

I didn’t say anything about whether or not it’s different enough to be unhappy about.

I said it wasn’t completely different, like the club in the analogy.

Not reading what I said devastates your argument before you make it.

And no, how different a game is from its current incarnation is not at all a matter of opinion. It’s entirely objective, because it doesn’t matter how you view the game, the same changes have been made to everyone. Whether I like a change you dislike is irrelevant to the objective fact that it was changed.

minbariguy.7504:

Vayne.8563:

I wouldn’t join a golf club because I don’t like golf. And I wouldn’t play golf.

What if you enjoyed chess, and you paid $60 for a lifetime membership to a chess club… and then 4-5 months after you joined, they changed it to a golf club?

Would you still not mind the fact that you paid $60 for a lifetime membership simply because you got 4-5 month’s worth of chess-playing before they switched to something you don’t enjoy?

This analogy might be more relevant had they changed Guild Wars 2 into, say, a racing game or a football game.

As it is, using hyperbole to attempt to prove a point weakens it, not strengthens it. The game is not a completely different thing than it started out as, like the club in your analogy.

joshc.3129:

Same goes for enemy drops. If they don’t drop anything of value then don’t make them drop anything at all.

Every time an enemy drops something and all it is, is just a junk item I always wonder why Anet took the time to design junk items and program into the game when that time could have been spend on something else.

I can think of a few reasons. First and foremost is bag space and BL merchant items are on the BLTC for gems.

Additionally, junk items limit the viability of farming, especially in the case of botting, because instead of getting gold directly, you’re filling up a limited space with items which translate into gold but you have to go to another place to turn them in.

Lastly, it’s easier to create “tiers” of rewards for certain levels of monsters. Instead of having to give each monster a gold drop rate of X to Y based on their level, they just drop a junk item of X tier based on their level range.

It’s not like creating junk items requires a significant amount of work. You don’t need to make sure they do anything right except sell. All it takes is someone to come up with a name and draw a quick icon for it.

Loot being in bags and chests actually makes it easier for me to maintain my inventory space because I can choose when to open them. If I’m running in WvW taking stuff and end up the day with 100 champ bags, I can hold on to those until I’m done and open them near a vendor or whatever. If the loot didn’t come in bags, I’d have to continually salvage/sell my loot every half hour or so.

Given how many people go for zergfests, I’d think that a stack of bags rather than an entire inventory full of single pieces of gear actually helps limit space taken up, rather than take up more.

I’d be annoyed if every time I killed a champ, I unavoidably got some bloodstone dust, a piece of gear, AND some sort of crafting material dumped into my limited space.

Huck.1405:

Remove having to run fracuals and crafting from the list. Many of us don’t craft or like fracuals.

Just give us picks from the list of dailies prior to the last patch, those were just fine.

Remove crafting, one of the easiest of the dailies, because you don’t like it?

How about an “Extra Daily Slot” in the gem store, with a cap of maybe 4, which increases the number of dailies you can choose from by 1 each (still requires 3 to complete meta)?

Today I went to Claw of Jormag because I was looking at the dailies and figured I might as well give it a shot.

While there, I saw Tobias and Gaile.

10/10, would daily again.

(I’m the one that put out the banners and bonfire.)

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Filaha.1678:

ViralVarda.2739:

I agree, but a mod is gonna merge them. I just struggled with the Snowden Drifts one. A lot of people were complaining about not being to tag because the events ended so quickly. It’s a common complaint.

I camped the King Jalis’ Refuge jumping puzzle because a veteran spawns there every few minutes that you have to kill to get access to the chest, and it’s an event.

Which is great, but it kind of just proves the point. People should be encouraged to run around participating in events and helping out others, rather than forced to camp one event to avoid issues with tagging or zerg lag etc.

I wasn’t forced to. I chose to because the character I was on didn’t have map completion, only like two WPs. So it was easier for me to just sit there.

ViralVarda.2739:

I agree, but a mod is gonna merge them. I just struggled with the Snowden Drifts one. A lot of people were complaining about not being to tag because the events ended so quickly. It’s a common complaint.

I camped the King Jalis’ Refuge jumping puzzle because a veteran spawns there every few minutes that you have to kill to get access to the chest, and it’s an event.

If I’d change one thing about the PVE dailies, it’d be to remove fractal and make it dungeon instead.

I’ll read this post in a minute. First I have to take care of this amazing offer I just got in the mail of a full set of legendaries for the low, low price of 10 gold! What a bargain!

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Albadaran.1283:

Ok to summarize a lot of what’s been saying:
Dailies are done for the 10 achievement points. Not for fun. Even those who play the new dailies often admit that its not for the fun. Especially the PvE dailies are subject of criticisms. Mostly because of the lack of choice. Obvious solution:

Give us more choice!! Instead of 3 out of 4 make it 3 out of 10! Everyone happy!

I wouldn’t be happy with that. It’d mean I’d have to take more time out of my day to get the easy rewards.

Why is that a problem? After all, according to an argument you have used in this thread many times already, they would be purely optional, and nobody would force you to get them.

I didn’t say anybody would force me to do them. I choose to do what I can for extra rewards.

Then, again using your own argument, where the unhappiness would come from? You could always choose to not do them. They’d be optional, you wouldn’t need to do them at all.

I could choose to, but I wouldn’t wish to. But at least it’s my choice.

Djinn.9245:

Filaha.1678:

Djinn.9245:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Save up 20 fine essences of luck. Grab a character with Artificer at 0. Refine luck up to exotic. Receive 3 ectoplasm. Not hard, great pay-off.

The average player who either isn’t a crafter or who only crafts on one or two characters looks at “Exotic” as the level under “Ascended” and therefore a very high level of crafting. And if they aren’t a crafter or only craft on one character to make bags or whatever they aren’t likely to know that Artificers are the only profession that comes with Exotic crafting at level 0.

Well then, it’s a good thing for this new daily system, isn’kitten

Because now those people get to learn about crafting luck items through artificing into higher luck items to reduce numbers of clicks.

They now have to do less clicks in order to get through stacks of luck items!

I think it more likely that most of these same players will think that the “Craft an Exotic” daily is out of their reach and they won’t attempt it OR learn from it.

Then that’s all the more reason to have this. If people aren’t aware of luck compression, then they’re missing out on a huge click-saver. Clearly this new system is objectively useful as a method to spur people to learn how to enhance their play experience.

Djinn.9245:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ashen.2907:

Neural.1824:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I did the dailies. Because I felt like it. And hey, I survived too!

So toxic sarcasm is acceptable here, so long as your opinion supports current game mechanics. Good to know.

It kind of looks like she was just posting in the same lighthearted vein as the OP to me.

Yes, Ashen, you’re right. I view this thread as a lighthearted thread, not intended to “bash” anyone. Some do the new dailies. Some don’t. Some don’t like them. Some do. It’s all good. We have a thread for serious discussion of the topic, but this one is pretty darn funny. One of my faves so far: “I skipped breakfast.”

Neural — this really isn’t toxic. It’s sarcy and it’s saucy, but toxic it is not.

When an entire forum thread is aimed at making fun of a group of concerned players, I view that as toxic. When the forum manager supports making fun of that same group of concerned players, I find that deplorable.

I find voicing complaints endlessly on a forum to be toxic, and trying to draw negativity towards the game from people who may not care or are happy otherwise.

Should the forum manager start deleting the complaints too?

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Also, the link you posted is specifically for EU, not including NA. Do your numbers reflect both?

You could have easily checked yourself (leaderboards are a click away), but yes, while NA AP numbers are a bit lower than EU, both in average and on extremes, the situation there is mostly the same as far as percentages go.
Yes, some of that people are inactive – but (unless GW2 population suddenly bombed really bad) even after adjusting for that we’re still talking about 1-2% of the active population. At best, that is – it’s more likely the numbers of people that were constantly driven to do all possible APs from dailies day after day is only a fraction of single percent.

You’re right, I could have checked. But it’s not my job to do someone else’s footwork for their argument.

Still, I’d wager that that 50% who haven’t even gotten 850 points are new, inactive, multiple accounts possibly made for storage, or gold spammers. Using them as evidence of “the majority of players” is therefore misrepresenting the size.

I don’t think you understand. Even if ALL the people below 850 AP were inactive, we’re still talking about a tiny minority. We’re talking about people in 20k+ AP range. And not even all of them, there’s a number of PvE only players that reached that point as well (and a number of 20k+ players went inactive as well, by the way). You don’t seriously suggest that there are that many of those?

No, I don’t think you understand.

If 50% of the people on that leaderboard don’t really play the game, then that 50% are not “part of the population” of the game. They don’t count towards the population of the game, because they’re not players.

…you haven’t read what i have written at all. Either that, or you don’t understand how math works.

I will repeat it again: even if we get rid of 50% of the population (everyone below the 850 AP mark), the AP hunters will still be a tiny minority of what’s left. If you decrease population by half, the 1% of old population will become only 2% of the new, decreased one. And looking at the AP levels, the 1% of total players (active and inactive) is an overestimation, and by a big margin.
Kitten, even if we assume that the population of GW2 has dropped below 1 million already (to a 20% of the people shown on leaderboards), the people that hunted all possible AP’s from the previous daily system would still be less than 5% of the total, active and playing population.
Honestly, the majority of the (active and still playing) players likely doesn’t even log in every day.

Since you brought up the subject of “reading what one has written”, care to go on to this, then?

Additionally, none of those numbers state where the points came from. Someone may have sought APs outside of dailies and therefore has more APs from non-daily sources, while another may have foregone many non-daily sources and just focused on those. Looking only at those numbers, without making an assumption that “Having X points means you focused on dailies while having less than X points means you didn’t care about daily APs”, can you tell me who went daily-hunting?

Look at those numbers. Tell me how many of those were concerned with dailies and how many just let them slide. Factually. Not making an assumption due to number of AP.
Because I can tell you right now that I have less than 10k AP but still tried to get as many AP as possible through dailies, all because I didn’t go out of my way for dungeons or jumping puzzles or whatnot.

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Albadaran.1283:

Ok to summarize a lot of what’s been saying:
Dailies are done for the 10 achievement points. Not for fun. Even those who play the new dailies often admit that its not for the fun. Especially the PvE dailies are subject of criticisms. Mostly because of the lack of choice. Obvious solution:

Give us more choice!! Instead of 3 out of 4 make it 3 out of 10! Everyone happy!

I wouldn’t be happy with that. It’d mean I’d have to take more time out of my day to get the easy rewards.

Why is that a problem? After all, according to an argument you have used in this thread many times already, they would be purely optional, and nobody would force you to get them.

I didn’t say anybody would force me to do them. I choose to do what I can for extra rewards.

Albadaran.1283:

Ok to summarize a lot of what’s been saying:
Dailies are done for the 10 achievement points. Not for fun. Even those who play the new dailies often admit that its not for the fun. Especially the PvE dailies are subject of criticisms. Mostly because of the lack of choice. Obvious solution:

Give us more choice!! Instead of 3 out of 4 make it 3 out of 10! Everyone happy!

I wouldn’t be happy with that. It’d mean I’d have to take more time out of my day to get the easy rewards.

Torvic.8256:

What if Elsa wore that exact dress in the movie?

There would (hopefully) not have been as many little girls dressing up as her for halloween?

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Also, the link you posted is specifically for EU, not including NA. Do your numbers reflect both?

You could have easily checked yourself (leaderboards are a click away), but yes, while NA AP numbers are a bit lower than EU, both in average and on extremes, the situation there is mostly the same as far as percentages go.
Yes, some of that people are inactive – but (unless GW2 population suddenly bombed really bad) even after adjusting for that we’re still talking about 1-2% of the active population. At best, that is – it’s more likely the numbers of people that were constantly driven to do all possible APs from dailies day after day is only a fraction of single percent.

You’re right, I could have checked. But it’s not my job to do someone else’s footwork for their argument.

Still, I’d wager that that 50% who haven’t even gotten 850 points are new, inactive, multiple accounts possibly made for storage, or gold spammers. Using them as evidence of “the majority of players” is therefore misrepresenting the size.

I don’t think you understand. Even if ALL the people below 850 AP were inactive, we’re still talking about a tiny minority. We’re talking about people in 20k+ AP range. And not even all of them, there’s a number of PvE only players that reached that point as well (and a number of 20k+ players went inactive as well, by the way). You don’t seriously suggest that there are that many of those?

No, I don’t think you understand.

If 50% of the people on that leaderboard don’t really play the game, then that 50% are not “part of the population” of the game. They don’t count towards the population of the game, because they’re not players.

That’s why that number gets skewed. If 50% of a sample size don’t count towards the results of the sample size, then the actual percentage of any given portion of the sample size doubles.

Let’s put it this way.

Let’s say you polled 100 people about which they like more, beef or pork. 25 say beef, 25 say pork, and 50 are vegan and get mad at you for asking such a horrible, murderous question. Those 50 people who are vegan are obviously irrelevant to the question, because they won’t like either more. So while previously, 25% would have said beef and 25% would have said pork, your only valid votes cause that to become 50% beef and 50% pork.

Additionally, none of those numbers state where the points came from. Someone may have sought APs outside of dailies and therefore has more APs from non-daily sources, while another may have foregone many non-daily sources and just focused on those. Looking only at those numbers, without making an assumption that “Having X points means you focused on dailies while having less than X points means you didn’t care about daily APs”, can you tell me who went daily-hunting?

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Also, the link you posted is specifically for EU, not including NA. Do your numbers reflect both?

You could have easily checked yourself (leaderboards are a click away), but yes, while NA AP numbers are a bit lower than EU, both in average and on extremes, the situation there is mostly the same as far as percentages go.
Yes, some of that people are inactive – but (unless GW2 population suddenly bombed really bad) even after adjusting for that we’re still talking about 1-2% of the active population. At best, that is – it’s more likely the numbers of people that were constantly driven to do all possible APs from dailies day after day is only a fraction of single percent.

You’re right, I could have checked. But it’s not my job to do someone else’s footwork for their argument.

Still, I’d wager that that 50% who haven’t even gotten 850 points are new, inactive, multiple accounts possibly made for storage, or gold spammers. Using them as evidence of “the majority of players” is therefore misrepresenting the size.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Wait, wait, wait.

Some of those patches I listed are part of the ‘original’ FF 14 game? Not this Reborn version? So there are actually less patches of content in the Reborn version?

Aaaaand this is my cue to be done here.

I didn’t say that at all.

Facts speak for themselves.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Filaha.1678:

What does this have to do with the fact that they put out more content than GW2? Or anything, for that matter?

I mean, you haven’t played the game, you admitted yourself, so it’s not like you can give any actual opinions on it, so…

Well, that’s kind of the reason I asked you, isn’kitten And you answered. With FF 14. Don’t worry, I’m downloading it later to find out for myself.

So, like I can give actual opinions on it. Not trying to show bias, but saying something has 20 times the content in a patch seems a stretch.

I mean, if I said that to you, would you take it at face value?

As someone who’s been paying attention, you are the one who referred to A Realm Reborn as being part of the original FFXIV, saying it’s misleading to call it only a year old. The person you were responding to was only counting things post-2.0 because FFXIV, the original, is not a thing at all any more. It has nothing to do with ARR except laying the groundwork for the world and story.

So if you’re going to include FFXIV in the “age” of ARR, then yes, one would treat it as a “patch”. However, since that “patch” would therefore be the entirety of ARR, then logically yes, it would be an asston of content comparatively.

You are the one who chose to include the first iteration in the age of ARR, when it’s not really part of ARR.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Filaha.1678:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I get the feeling I’m reading hyperbole, but okay. Twenty times the content it is.

The 20x is referring to the fact that A Realm Reborn isn’t just FF14 remade.

The story of A Realm Reborn takes place after the events of original FF14. The opening cutscene of ARR, the Battle of Carteneau, was the last event to take place in FF14 as, essentially, Bahamut nuked the game.

Essentially, ARR is a sequel to FFXIV, which is why it’s not two years old.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

The first version crashed and burned, so they’re not calling it #15 because it’s a reboot or Reborn because some mob nuked that and said, “Oh hell no.”

Reboot! And they’re disguising that as . . . story?

What does this have to do with the fact that they put out more content than GW2? Or anything, for that matter?

I mean, you haven’t played the game, you admitted yourself, so it’s not like you can give any actual opinions on it, so…

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I get the feeling I’m reading hyperbole, but okay. Twenty times the content it is.

The 20x is referring to the fact that A Realm Reborn isn’t just FF14 remade.

The story of A Realm Reborn takes place after the events of original FF14. The opening cutscene of ARR, the Battle of Carteneau, was the last event to take place in FF14 as, essentially, Bahamut nuked the game.

Essentially, ARR is a sequel to FFXIV, which is why it’s not two years old.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

this system is superior for people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.

I am glad that this 1% will now be a lot happier than the other 90% of casual PvEers who were getting 5-8 AP daily in the old system just for playing the game and without wasting any time on pet tricks. That’s a great way to retain players, I agree.

/sarcasm

Proof of numbers, please.

• Rank 1-100: 26500AP – 25100AP
• Rank 100-1000: 25100AP – 21750AP
• Rank 90%: 21750AP – 4130AP
• Rank 50%: 850AP

https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/achievements/

Even if dead-set AP hunters are more than 1% of population, they’re a clear minority.

people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.

How do those numbers represent that? Those numbers don’t appear to include anything about where or how any given person plays, or what their desire is as far as daily APs.

What does, if not these numbers?

As of 2013, around 860,000 were active players. Top 1000 (1/9th of a percent) has AP from 25100AP to 21750AP – quite a gap. Only 10% of all registered players have more than 4100AP. 50% have less than 850AP. Let’s use common sense: how many dead-set AP hunters at all can there be? A handful, that’s it. Several percent. Now subtract the AP hunters who didn’t want to ever go to PvE – a subset within a subset. So why do global changes which affect all players should be focused on the comfort of a definite minority?

And how many of those are still active players? Or even were active players at the time? At 5 AP per day, you’d reach 900 AP in 180 days. And that’s if you only get AP from doing 5 dailies. However, that won’t happen, as there are achievements that will clearly be picked up along the way, like (enemy) slayers and weapon kills and whatnot.

That means that at least 50% of those numbers apparently were either not “active” or new at the time. Which means they skew numbers because you can’t claim which way they would have or might play eventually, or how many are alternate accounts of a same person, or possibly gold sellers.

Also, the link you posted is specifically for EU, not including NA. Do your numbers reflect both?

Coming from the other end of the spectrum, I completed all of my PvE and WvW dailies yesterday, and am reporting no ill side effects except a cramp for having to carry all this extra loot for having done all that.

Will report further if any more conditions arise.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Filaha.1678:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Please tell us what other MMO adds as much content within a year that doesn’t add it all after two years with a $40.00 or more in an expansion you must wait a year or more to see?

Final Fantasy 14.

I’ve researched what I can, but I’m grossly unfamiliar with this FF 14. May I ask if these are all the content patches?

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/patchnote_log/

I was going to ask more, especially since it a subscription game with a gem store, but I see others have asked my concerns. I’ll stick to point.

If that’s their list, then I’d say so.

nGumball.1283:

You do realize that FF14 is a newer game? You do realize that FF14 is a re-realease and the devs have had far longer time to develope? You do realize that GW2 actually had big content updates at the start?

You do realize that that’s all irrelevant to the question asked?

Also FF14 is a game that benifits from gear progression while GW2 doesn’t

Okay. And? That wasn’t part of the question. A question was asked. I answered it. Stipulations were not stated.

FF14 has added more content this year than GW2. That’s all there is to it.

And I don’t count GW2’s seasonal stuff because it’s a rehash of last year’s. That’s not new content. Nor do I count “special events” like the WvW tournament, because, again, not new. I’m counting things that are actually new, like the living story vs. FF14’s continuing main story and the side stories like Hildebrand.

Beldin.5498:

Filaha.1678:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Please tell us what other MMO adds as much content within a year that doesn’t add it all after two years with a $40.00 or more in an expansion you must wait a year or more to see?

Final Fantasy 14.

Now tell is also why you are here and not at FF14 ?

I can say that EQ2 for me was the game with the most content additions, however
i don’t play it anymore since i never liked raiding, and the difference between raiders
and non-raiders was getting bigger and bigger with the years, and it annoyed me
more and more over time.

I am on FF14.

I’m not sure why you think that being here and being on FF14 are two mutually exclusive activities.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Please tell us what other MMO adds as much content within a year that doesn’t add it all after two years with a $40.00 or more in an expansion you must wait a year or more to see?

Final Fantasy 14.

Djinn.9245:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Save up 20 fine essences of luck. Grab a character with Artificer at 0. Refine luck up to exotic. Receive 3 ectoplasm. Not hard, great pay-off.

The average player who either isn’t a crafter or who only crafts on one or two characters looks at “Exotic” as the level under “Ascended” and therefore a very high level of crafting. And if they aren’t a crafter or only craft on one character to make bags or whatever they aren’t likely to know that Artificers are the only profession that comes with Exotic crafting at level 0.

Well then, it’s a good thing for this new daily system, isn’kitten

Because now those people get to learn about crafting luck items through artificing into higher luck items to reduce numbers of clicks.

They now have to do less clicks in order to get through stacks of luck items!

Zero Day.2594:

Filaha.1678:

Zero Day.2594:

In the first sentence said people like fractals…? ALL the people?

I never said all the people. I said people. If one person likes fractals, and another person likes fractals, then two people like fractals, therefore people like fractals.

Considering I have seen more than one person running around wearing fractal skins, I think it would be safe to say that people like fractals.

It’s not my fault if someone chooses to extend “people” to mean “everybody”. I await your apology for asserting your misconception on my quite clear post.

Well yeah it’s not their fault that that their terminology doesnt align with yours. No need to be rude about it.

The fact that you clearly need to keep restating that your “people” refers to a subset of everyone/people(which btw I understood in my previous response that you choose to omit partially), means that this word can lead to different interpretations. No need to be rude to someone who may have a different interpretation of something than you.

I’m not the one being rude here. You’re not apologizing for arguing something I didn’t say and asserting that it’s my fault somehow.

And yes, it is entirely their fault if they think “people” is synonymous with “everybody”.

Zero Day.2594:

In the first sentence said people like fractals…? ALL the people?

I never said all the people. I said people. If one person likes fractals, and another person likes fractals, then two people like fractals, therefore people like fractals.

Considering I have seen more than one person running around wearing fractal skins, I think it would be safe to say that people like fractals.

It’s not my fault if someone chooses to extend “people” to mean “everybody”. I await your apology for asserting your misconception on my quite clear post.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Actually, I have a ton of respect for Wooden Potatoes given the information he gives to the community with his videos. So, if he in fact did give Guild Wars 2 Game of the Year, I’d give him more credibility.

Plus throwing him under the bus to make a point, and a poor one at that, wasn’t necessary.

But maybe that’s just me.

If someone is known for their contributions to a specific game, why would they be credible in deciding that game is best?

I’d sooner take the word over someone who’s known for having played all the games than providing a bunch of information about one.

Djinn.9245:

Serophous.9085:

Djinn.9245:

Serophous.9085:

Vayne.8563:

Far too many people play for the achievements specifically for them to be abolished. For people who do need direction, achievements are an important guide.

So….people want to play as they want….but be told what to do….?

I don’t know where Vayne gets this – people don’t “need” direction. Anet introduced a system (Dailies) that shows or reminds players of choices they might not normally make in their game play. People could choose to do those activities and get a small reward. Only recently has Anet started trying to force players to do certain activities by reducing rewards for straight PvE play (maps / hearts).

It they don’t need direction, then why care about dailies that (before and after update) that told you what to do?

Right: I don’t need direction so I don’t like dailies that have so few straight PvE choices that I am forced to do something I don’t want to do in order to get the same rewards I got before the changes.

When did you get 10 AP for dailies before this change without being told what to do?

Djinn.9245:

We previously had plenty of choices to complete “straight PvE” Achievements (i.e. maps / hearts not dungeons, fractals etc.) We currently don’t have a way to do that at all.

You had zero choices to complete straight PVE achievements for 10 AP, though. PvE also still has far more choices in how to gain AP through other methods, like jumping puzzles, dungeons, world bosses, etc.
WvW has… play lots of WvW. And I mean lots.

The game is still heavily biased towards giving PvE players the best rewards.

It doesn’t matter that you believe they are “super easy”, some people dislike the idea of there being a chance of going into an area only to be ganked by one or more other players. It is Anet trying to force us to do something we don’t want to do in order to get the same rewards we used to get that is the issue.

You’re right, it doesn’t matter that I believe they’re super easy, because they are, in fact, super easy. The Dolyak one bears practically a 0% chance of running into an opposing player because you can look at the camps where they spawn from spots where you’re invincible. See someone there? Wait until they’re gone.

And again, you’re not being forced to do anything. You have the choice. If you choose to ignore super easy dailies because it’s not something you want to do, that does not invalidate the fact that the choice is there.

Why weren’t you campaigning for choice when, under the previous system, PvE frequently was a must to get even 10 AP? WvW players and PvP players didn’t have a choice if they wanted 10 AP. Did you have a problem with that? Why aren’t you campaigning now for WvW and PvP to get even more achievements, on scale with PvE, so that they can choose their play style to get equal rewards?

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Filaha.1678:

this system is superior for people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.

I am glad that this 1% will now be a lot happier than the other 90% of casual PvEers who were getting 5-8 AP daily in the old system just for playing the game and without wasting any time on pet tricks. That’s a great way to retain players, I agree.

/sarcasm

Proof of numbers, please.

• Rank 1-100: 26500AP – 25100AP
• Rank 100-1000: 25100AP – 21750AP
• Rank 90%: 21750AP – 4130AP
• Rank 50%: 850AP

https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/achievements/

Even if dead-set AP hunters are more than 1% of population, they’re a clear minority.

people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.

How do those numbers represent that? Those numbers don’t appear to include anything about where or how any given person plays, or what their desire is as far as daily APs.

Lyssan.3768:

Filaha.1678:

Technically, before, you could only unlock your traits to use by paying gold to the trainer. Now, you can unlock them by either paying gold/SP or doing a task that costs you nothing but time.

So, technically, you have more choice now than before, as far as unlocking traits goes.

As well, there were 12 dailies to choose from before, and 12 dailies to choose from now. Same amount of choice on what dailies to do. As well, one can choose to get their 10 AP by never leaving PVP or WVW, while before they couldn’t always choose to do so.

There’s a difference between “less choice” and “making different choices”.

Unfortunately, this has been one of the typical, and incorrect, responses to everything about the dailies as well. I did the math before, from the actual options available and what you had to complete to get the chosen daily achievement, in regards to PvE which is what I play.

At the daily system before the one before this latest one, you had lets say 14 daily choice items to pick from 1 section, just PvE, just WvW, etc. , and had to do 5. I do not remember the exact total choices. But that ratio works out to approximately 35%. With the update before this one, you have the total choices available reduced to 10 within the chosen section, an increase in percentage of the total to 50%. With this last one, yes you only have to do 3, which most would say is less than 5. That is correct. But when you compare it to the available options of 4, some of which are not even reachable by some people on some of the days, the new percentage is 75%. So while it looks like you now have to do less, you have to actually complete a larger percentage of the available choices.

To those that are just saying, go to WvW or PvP, uhm, no. Just no. For whatever reason, that is not a choice to some of us. And many of you don’t even see that fighting for more choices applies to your part of the game as well, and would also benefit you, not hurt you. If the problem is limited choices in WvW and PvP, increase the available choices. Let the players decide what they want to do, and hold to the “play how you want to” idea.

Your math, or your memory, is off.

The system immediately previous did not have 10 dailies per section. PVE had 8 specifically to it, WvW had 2, and PvP had 2.

If you wanted to not leave PvE, you had to do 5/8 dailies to get daily completion, 5 AP. You had to do 8/8 dailies to get 8 AP. If you wanted 10 AP, you had to go into WvW or PvP.

So 8 AP, the max without leaving PvE, required 100% completion, some days requiring jumping puzzles, fractals, dungeons, personal story (sucks if you already completed it), or specific places, which meant you probably had to go out of your way unless your days included all those. It was impossible to get 10 AP in PvE. Daily completion, 5/8, would be 62.5% completion of the dailies.

Now, if you don’t want to leave PvE, you have 4 choices, but only 3 required. 75% completion needed for max rewards. That’s 10 AP. So to get max rewards, you need 25% less of the dailies completed to get the max possible AP rewards for PvE. It’s no possible to get 10 AP without going to WvW or PvP. The only place the requirement is “larger” is daily completion itself, but you get 2x the points for only 12.5% more “completion”.

However, speaking from the whole, you actually have 12 choices either way which you can use to get AP, and you only need 3 of them, as opposed to 10 for the same AP rewards. Whether or not one refuses to do WvW or PvP does not invalidate the fact that the choices are there. I cannot say that the only way I can get dungeon skins is to go into dungeons when I could also do PvP just because I don’t like PvP.

This is especially since at least three of the current rotation of WvW dailies are actually super easy for PvE players that probably won’t even result in them meeting other players. Master of Ruins requires no kills at all, just running to a spot on a map and sitting there for a minute. Land Claimer requires a kill of a single veteran and then standing there. Caravan Disruptor requires a kill of a single dolyak that isn’t even a veteran. In all cases, those are marked on your map so you know exactly where you can go, too.

Third Eye.6718:

Filaha.1678:

There’s only one type of person who is restricted by the new daily system, and that’s the stubborn person who thinks they should get rewards for not going out of their way at all just because that’s how it worked before . It’s hard for me to feel sorry for those people, though, when they act like the world is ending because they might have to dip into WvW for a few seconds.

Subdue.5479:

Then there are people who have no common sense at all and see loss of choice even when there is more choice, like with the case of laurels. Resting through that argument made my head hurt. Previously, you log in, do five dailies and get your laurel. Today, log in, get you laurel, and do whatever you went. How the heck do you see that as less choice. I have no idea.

Seriously, you guys need to be a little more mindful of what you put out there because at times it’s just plain rude, not to mention hypocritical and contradictory. You talk about others being stubborn and having no common sense and yet display the same qualities…

Maybe it’s time to take a chill pill and work out why it’s so important to try and prove others wrong? ; )

Please go back through the thread and warn everybody else who’s been rude to not be rude. Please do not be rude yourself by centering your attacks against people who are only on one side of the argument.

Thank you.

Also, it would be hypocritical if I had said being stubborn was inherently bad. I didn’t. I used it as an adjective, not an insult. Please don’t accuse me of things I haven’t done.

Thank you.

Locce.8405:

I do not think I have to re-read the whole thread to see the flaw in your argument. I have to look no further than to the example you gave: Vlad. He did not just ragequit and tell Anet off for not giving him everything he wanted.

I have to look no further than this sentence to see the flaw in your response to me. I didn’t say he did.

Please try to base your arguments on things I’ve said.

No, but saying you quit and trying to explain why can very well be, especially when the leaving customer is very likely not the only one with the same complaint.

It depends. Explaining that it’s because of a relatively minor segment of the game as a whole will not be very constructive, because that makes your reason for quitting look petty. I mean, you really should go back and read what Vlad said. He didn’t mention any other reasons for quitting except the daily changes. The only things he really says are “I don’t like the changes, I don’t have to play, I’m updating WoW, people are going to quit en masse”.

That is not constructive. Period.

If somebody is able to reasonably explain his grief and/or others can understand that grief without necessarily entering rage-mode themselves it can hardly be a non-issue. As a matter of fact, dismissing another’s cause of grief as a non-issue is one of the least constructive things you can do.

An example of that is someone who was raging that their “choices of how to gain a laurel were removed”. They chose to ignore the fact that since they gain the laurel regardless, that then gave them ultimate freedom in choosing how to spend their time, because it removed the one restriction earlier: that you had to actively play the game. That is what I mean by a non-issue.

It seems to me that you are defending people you have not seen anything from, and assuming that I am the problem without even knowing anything about the actual examples I am bringing up. That’s actually rather insulting.

If, for example, you ate in a restaurant and were served a dish that was mostly good but had something you did not like all that much, you can still give your feedback even if you do not know the first thing about cooking or spices. If you describe your problem well enough, maybe the cook can tell you that everything will be fine if you just order the same item, say, without cumin the next time.

And if you acted towards the chef the same way many people are acting towards Anet, all you’d get next time is spit in your food. Or worse.

Locce.8405:

You are straining the old straw man already – pardon the pun – by implying that people are already threatening to leave over this issue

Except some people are. The post I was replying to by Vlad in this very thread on this very day was filled with threats of leaving and people leaving.

You may want to re-evaluate what you think a strawman is, or, to be honest, you may want to read this entire thread. People are saying they’re going to quit or they’ll stop playing or they’ve lost any desire to play at all.

You say that you are not against people voicing their opinion, but on the other way you obviously are against people complaining about this issue. What makes the new Daily so valuable to you that you would rather have it stay this way than have a few more and/or more non-specific options?

I’m not against people complaining about this issue. I’m against the way people complain, and some specific things they complain about.

Threats to quit are not constructive. Raging about non-issues are not constructive. Simply getting mad at Arenanet and insulting them is not constructive. Throwing a tantrum is not constructive.

Coming up with solutions is constructive. Working with Arenanet, rather than demanding they immediately fix things, is constructive.

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

Locce.8405:

I guess I do not have to tell you that it is usually not just one thing that makes people leave a game. Far more often it is a collection of things reducing the enjoyment of the game bit by bit. What I apparently do have to tell you is that this is exactly what is happening for those complaining about the new Dailies and how they were implemented. Their enjoyment is reduced, and it does not matter if that change affects everybody or you specifically, and it does not matter if it’s already enough to make them leave or if a few more negative bits are needed to that effect.

If you feel you’ve just added the proverbial straw, then a better solution to just picking the straw back up would be to fix the camel and maybe remove some of the additional items he was carrying.

I am not exactly a member of the Anet development team, am I? So what am I supposed to do other than give feedback to those who have the power to take items of the camels back or to fix the camel altogether. It’s either that or leave the camel to die, and since GW2 used to be a lot of fun for me I would feel rather bad about that without even trying to do my part.

Didn’t say you couldn’t give feedback. Ever. That has never been a thing I’ve said.

What I have said is that with all these people making threats that they’re leaving for good because of dailies, then Anet should actually not worry too hard about the dailies themselves, because if “so many” people are just going to quit because dailies were the straw, they’ve been working that poor camel too hard already, and it’s time to lighten the camel’s load.

Locce.8405:

Filaha.1678:

If you ran a store and one person came in and complained about the merchandise and said they were never coming back again because the merchandise wasn’t what they wanted, would you try to make them happy so they come back by changing your merchandise, or would you look at the hundred regulars that are constantly coming into your store and buying your merchandise and instead try to keep them happy?

It’s only logic.

The next day another customer comes in with the same complaint. The day after that another two. Then another customer on day three… How many customers do you lose before you start to even consider if their complaint is valid? At which point do you even recognise that of the customers who have not yet complained about the new merchandise none have exactly complained about the old one either? If you ran a store and would really try to maximise your profits wouldn’t you at least check if keeping the complaining customer happy would actually cost you anything?

It’s only logic.

Well, as long as the customers that keep coming back considerably outnumber the minority complaining about the merchandise, I wouldn’t really care to look into changing my merchandise just in case the people who have proven themselves to keep coming back don’t like the new merchandise.

Mail carrier skins.

Hamfast.8719:

(I blame Scarlet for bringing that WvW tactic down upon PvE).

Had you never been to Queensdale pre-April feature pack?

People still ask where the zerg is as they come back for the first time since then.

Locce.8405:

I guess I do not have to tell you that it is usually not just one thing that makes people leave a game. Far more often it is a collection of things reducing the enjoyment of the game bit by bit. What I apparently do have to tell you is that this is exactly what is happening for those complaining about the new Dailies and how they were implemented. Their enjoyment is reduced, and it does not matter if that change affects everybody or you specifically, and it does not matter if it’s already enough to make them leave or if a few more negative bits are needed to that effect.

If you feel you’ve just added the proverbial straw, then a better solution to just picking the straw back up would be to fix the camel and maybe remove some of the additional items he was carrying.

Zero Day.2594:

Likewise, Filaha, you are a person, voicing their opinion just like Vlad… No need to be rude, or attempt to invalidate what he’s saying just because he doesn’t represent all the players – no one does, surely you don’t either.

Actually, if you go ahead and read what I said that he responded to, was me saying that people like fractals. I never said that everybody liked them, nor did I say that Vlad does or should like them. He responded, irrelevantly, with his statement that he doesn’t like them and I shouldn’t speak for him, but then, I never did speak for him, nor attempt to. I spoke for the people that do like fractals. He’s not one of them. He is irrelevant to the people that like fractals.

I’ll await your apology for telling the wrong person that they’re incorrectly trying to invalidate someone’s point based on their own personal opinion.

That’s interesting…
I’m no mathematician or a sales-person… but I think if they did do that, the number of players they retain will start to decrease slowly but steadily. With a decrease of players, there will be a decrease in gem sales.

If you ran a store and one person came in and complained about the merchandise and said they were never coming back again because the merchandise wasn’t what they wanted, would you try to make them happy so they come back by changing your merchandise, or would you look at the hundred regulars that are constantly coming into your store and buying your merchandise and instead try to keep them happy?

It’s only logic.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

I don’t like fractals and you certainly don’t speak for me.

You aren’t people. You are a person. You are irrelevant to what “people” like.

Like I’ve said if they don’t want me to play the game the way i want to no problem i can just stop playing,

That’s cool. There’s actually nothing stopping you from playing the way you want, but if you want to claim that there is…

actually I’m in the process of downloading DAI and upgrading WoW, so I’ll have plenty of options while they pull their heads out of the sand. When it hits the fan and the players start dropping off I just hope the right people take the hit for these poor decisions.

If players start dropping off all because they have to go a little bit out of their way to get AP (which, if you didn’t notice, you will have to do, period, if you want the major AP rewards) then the game has more problems than dailies. Clearly, they should completely ignore “fixing” dailies and work on other portions of the game.

And if you’re already planning to leave… well, then they don’t really need to please you, do they? Clearly you’ll be difficult to actually please if the only thing keeping you here is the dailies. They should focus on the people who either are happy with the changes or don’t mind the changes, as they’ll clearly be easier to please and retain.