Guild Wars 2

First thing I thought of reading the thread title:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2vAd4GZl7g

Demented Sheep.1642:

Argh, I hope not. That’s actually one of things I hate in stories. It makes a character seem like someone’s “I’m just naturally special and better than everyone” sue and if its a games makes it seem like the writers are more interested in stroking the players ego than actually telling a good story.

Except our characters ARE just naturally better than everyone. It’s shown repeatedly throughout your personal story and in gameplay by making NPCs incredibly weak compared to you. It’s the reason why we’re the heroes and not the rank and file soldiers.

Heck, the Street Rat Human PS choice alone makes the entirety of the Seraphs look incompetent if you choose to help Quinn.

I kind of got the feeling it was one of two things before. Either:

1. It was an error, since there are other items in the game which don’t exist for players yet exist for NPCs – Anise’s outfit is a linkable, human-only outfit which confusingly is heavy armour, IIRC, and is one item for her whole outfit. It kind of gives me the feeling that the NPCs are not modeled with the clothes on, but are considered as having their outfits “equipped”.

2. If it does become a player skin, it will likely have some spoilery name and that’s why it was only labelled “Iron Greatsword”, so as to avoid spoilers while still suggesting that we’d get it. If we do get it as a skin, I would more expect it to be no sooner than the next chapter, when they can spoilery-name it without much worry.

I haven’t gotten that far in the story. Is it voiced? Because I notice Rox says “her”. Does it change to “him” for male characters?

It’s another example of not thinking things out first.

Not only are they now forced to stand right next to deadly vines as if they’re scared to move or they’ll wet themselves, but the story itself will now have to take place during the vines, when chronologically it should be happening before.

Not that it couldn’t be seen coming, because the personal story, which chronologically takes place before the living story, still has you running around in post-Scarlet Lion’s Arch, going on about how you’re going to defend it and it’s never fallen and everyone needs to be protected and/or evacuated despite clearly being smashed up and everyone’s already dead or moved out.

When the Dust Mite Twister champion spawns, it also spawns a Chicken-Ado in the new part of the zone. It’s an achievement to catch a chicken that pops out of it, and the event revolves around rescuing chickens from it.

Mitch.4781:

Filaha.1678:

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

So you complain about the writing but clearly haven’t been paying attention.

Braham is the one insisting he’s fine and wanting to go in and fight and not sit back and let other people do it for him. Rox is the one complaining.

So, I mean, unless you think it’s wimpy to go into combat on an (potentially) injured leg, then he’s not acting like a wimp at all.

Kind of hard to take any of your other complaints seriously after that.

Hilarious how people try and point what I haven’t been paying attention to while clearing ignoring what I wrote. I NEVER talked about Braham directly complaining about is leg…I said then there is Braham with his leg…Did you see that?? It’s right up there in the quote you posted! I was talking in general terms. His OVERALL persona is that of a brow beaten emasculated male….which is ironic considering the Norn are supposed to be noble and strong warriors. Either way your point is friggin irrelevant.

And by the way …of course, cos he says he is fine, he must be…. Sweet Jesus..

In general, he’s acting like a wimp by…
Rushing headfirst into combat on a potentially injured leg?

Clearly wimpy. He should grow a pair like the real men who sit on forums complaining about fictional characters.

Also, nobody’s ignoring what you wrote. But what you think you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. If you weren’t meaning to suggest that he was acting like a wimp because of his leg, then you certainly got it across poorly by putting your wimp comment immediately after complaining about his leg.

Again, hard to take your criticisms seriously when you can’t even get across your own complaints.

You also got a whole bunch of rewards along the way.

Your reward for completing the story is really the whole pile of things you picked up from each separate instance.

Mitch.4781:

Then there is Braham with his kitten leg. He’s a GUARDIAN for God’s sake…He can’t heal himself?? Either way, I am sick of hearing about it…Never seen a Norn act like such a wimp.

So you complain about the writing but clearly haven’t been paying attention.

Braham is the one insisting he’s fine and wanting to go in and fight and not sit back and let other people do it for him. Rox is the one complaining.

So, I mean, unless you think it’s wimpy to go into combat on an (potentially) injured leg, then he’s not acting like a wimp at all.

Kind of hard to take any of your other complaints seriously after that.

Edit: Also, going by your logic of “game mechanics say they can do this, so they should do it”, Belinda shouldn’t be dead because revives and waypoints, and Taimi shouldn’t be crippled because condition removal.

You also had to pay for both of those full-fledged expansions.

Also, by the time the first of those expansions came out, I had already quit GW1 because nothing was happening and I already completed the story and had elite armour on each of my characters.

The gauntlet tickets were a bonus item in addition to any other practical rewards you got (unless you traded in tokens for them, in which case, why?).

It’s a lot like the sand in this LS chapter.

If you just trash the tickets, you don’t really lose anything, because you probably weren’t farming for them in the first place if you weren’t going to use them. Just like with the sand, if you don’t get anything in them, you don’t really lose anything because you probably didn’t farm specifically for them (and if you did, why?).

Besides, you can’t really expect any even half-decent rewards for just trading them in, because that’d be like spitting in the face of anyone who used them and just got a smallish pile of tokens to show for it.

tekfan.3179:

Filaha.1678:

tekfan.3179:

I would have liked that too.
In a way I’m beginning to hate these Living World episodes.
Everything is just about killing the bad guys and stopping things getting worse.
No way of actually helping things to get better.

Festival of the Four Winds was based around raising funds for Lion’s Arch.

Honestly, it’d be ridiculous if the “heroes” of the game were running around picking up garbage in Lion’s Arch when there’s (potentially) a dragon about to make things worse.

So, “heroes” participating on a festival and playing games is the more logic decision to do while there’s (potentially) a dragon about to make things worse?
Furthermore a festival to raise a mysterious amount of money?
Did the festival bring enough money to repair the damage to the city, or is it just enough for a hot soup for every NPC?

Filaha.1678:

If they were going to do it, though, it should have been done during Festival, not now. Right now, focus is supposed to be on the living world story. Story-wise, we don’t have time to come help LA because we’re too busy on the other side of the world.

Only time it could have logically happened is during down-time.

Also, one half of the festival attraction was the Gauntlet/Boss Blitz. That not only offered funds raised for LA, but training and practice for things to come. That actually IS a better way to spend one’s time than picking up garbage in the streets.

How are the monocle, adventurer’s headpieces, gas mask, and rucksack steampunk?

Monocles are historically associated with the “upper crust” or wealthy folks. When I think of monocles, I think of Count Von Count and Oswald Cobblepot, actually.

The Adventurer’s headpieces are just plain goggles and a bandana.

The gas mask looks far more sci-fi than steampunk.

And the rucksack is… well, a rucksack. A bunch of bags, a bowl of crystals, and an inexplicable toucan. TBH, it makes me think more of the junk lady in The Labyrinth.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

there’s a bit too many revealing outfits, and not enough practical armors.

Sorry, but I find it entirely ridiculous every time someone uses the word “practical” in this context.

Need I remind you of what we tend to be fighting? People with guns, swords, explosives, and magic, giants, monsters, even dragons.

What kind of armour do you really think is going to be practical?

If the Shadow Behemoth slams his claw down on you, it doesn’t matter whether you’re wearing full plate mail or a bikini. You are going to be a pancake.

In fact, the bikini would be the far more practical outfit in that situation, because realistically, the full plate mail would make it a lot harder to dodge, while the bikini would offer nothing in the way of weight or resistance. A robe would be the least practical of all, because it doesn’t even offer the minor protection full plate mail would offer, and would practically make you trip over your own clothing, putting evasion out of the question as well.

Realistically, if your character is wearing light armour (being cloth) against things with swords, guns, explosives, magic, giant claws, and nasty, big, pointy teeth, the most practical armour would be that which won’t get in the way of your movement, because your best defense would be not getting hit at all (barring an exceptional offense). Tripping over an ankle-lenth robe isn’t conducive to swift, agile movements.

If you’re wearing cloth, the only thing putting on more cloth is practically going to help you defend against is a chill.

If they were going to do it, though, it should have been done during Festival, not now. Right now, focus is supposed to be on the living world story. Story-wise, we don’t have time to come help LA because we’re too busy on the other side of the world.

Only time it could have logically happened is during down-time.

Sorann Peace.9056:

I don’t even remember who said it exactly, but i’m pretty sure it was the OP of the thread that I was disagreeing with since he was the one assuming it was two weeks from what I remember. Your comment was something I just used rhetorically.

Fair enough. Your use of the wording of my comment while arguing the other person’s thinking just made it seem like you were attributing the argument of it being quick development to me.

Also, if they made Marjory actually be dead, then it’d change the impact to the characters when they kill Belinda.

They couldn’t have gone too far with it.

Because everyone would have been questioning why everyone’s allowing Kasmeer to continue adventuring when she’s clearly gone insane after having created a clone of her dead girlfriend just to continue functioning.

That story, by all rights, would end after a couple sentences with “And then we had her committed to the nearest asylum.”

If you had a problem with that, why didn’t you also bring up the context in which the comment was made, which was to a person claiming that they should make the living story content malleable based on what the players do with each two week release?

You didn’t have a problem with that?

Also, if you cringed when there was no follow-up post correcting that, why didn’t you post that there instead of trying to mock it more publicly with a new thread?

Also also, I (since I assume you’re referring to the comment I made) was not saying that it took them just a super short time to make the first chapter and all the other chapters will also be a super short time. Again, in context, it was referring to the person suggesting they make content malleable based on what happens from players during the chapter. If you paid attention to the rest of the post instead of taking that out of context, the entire time I held the stance that they couldn’t do that because it would take too long between releases. The comment about the three months was more regarding the story, rather than the development of the maps and such, and the fact that that time would also have been spent planning the direction of the story.

If you were going to try to shame someone’s comments regarding a misunderstanding of time taken, maybe you should have done it to the person suggesting mutable content based on actions taken every two weeks, hm?

Tumult.2578:

Sure, I’ll respond to that totally off topic response intended only as an insult.
I try the content and almost always succeed. If I don’t succeed or make any progress at all, after repeated good effort attempts then I question the game. Clearly lots of others are questioning this also.
You seem to think that this jumping challenge is no different that any vista in the game. You are entitled to your opinion but that’s all it is. NOT FACT.
This is harder than any vista in the game OBVIOUSLY because it also incorporates the aspects into the jumps. Arenanet has been adding and combining skills for bosses to make them harder and that fine. It doesn’t block anyone’s progression.
If this does, that’s wrong.
I don’t expect you to understand this. I don’t understand why you even commented.

Filaha.1678:

You know this isn’t about the jumping puzzle or optional achievements, right?

I’m guessing that’s a really long way to say “No”?

For all we know, maybe the jumping will be dialed back in the next chapter and they just feel they don’t need to comment because there’s no need to come Tuesday.

Edit: Or, since this forum seems more to be based around the story itself, rather than the gameplay mechanics behind it, the people who it would be relevant to don’t come here. Or they’re too busy making the game not have holes in the map.

ErazorZ.5209:

different servers have different bosses and the ‘episodes’ are supposed to be more inline with the number of various different commanders. say about 14 commanders a week seems like a good number? 2 every day. with a bunch of side events to lure out said commanders if you wanna go in full depth.

Okay, so where’s the story?

This is living story. Where’s the story happening?

And if something dies it dies. it doesnt just respawn thats NOT immersive and thats NOT persistant its a stupid respawn model MMOs use simply to let the masses flock to an area to grind.

When you die in the game, do you delete your character?

Respawn mechanics in MMOs are designed to allow people who aren’t there first to be able to do content. If they didn’t make bosses respawn, only one set of people could have seen the end of last season’s LS.

Im giving them food for thoughts what they COULD be doing. Not the generic kitten they are release every biweekly update.

They COULD do it, or they could not waste everything they’ve done up until now for this season to attempt to put in what sounds like an utter mess and a complete horror to properly integrate into the game and story.

Its an idea from me to make a better LS,

Nothing of what you said sounds like it’d make it better, since you seem to be trying to remove the “Story” from “Living Story”.

You just refuse to understand what im typing.

You just refuse to consider that your idea is inherently flawed.

Constantly questionmarking everything asif you cant think for yourself.

It’s not my idea for the game. It’s yours. I shouldn’t be thinking for myself on it, because you’re the one trying to present an idea. That’s how the world works. Start getting used to it.

Worst of why your doing this is to prove to me that my idea is definitly wrong. And that guildwars is doing is a spectaculair job by giving more generic questing systems.

Just because I think your idea sounds like a terror for any game to attempt to integrate – especially after they’ve already begun and planned out what you want to radically change to something completely different – doesn’t mean that I think they’re doing a spectacular job.

I come up with ideas that seem fun to me.

Which is fine. But that doesn’t mean you can toss it out as a suggestion without considering how much of the game they’d need to radically change just to suit that idea.

instead of to create the actuall content they are promoting is definatly not fun for me. To be disapointed every 2 weeks.

Where’s your proof they’re not creating it? Do you work for them? Are you spying on their office?

Also, we’re still only 1.5 weeks into the first chapter. How are you getting disappointed every 2 weeks?

Do you read the first 10 pages of a book, then decide it’s terrible and the rest will disappoint you?

tekfan.3179:

I would have liked that too.
In a way I’m beginning to hate these Living World episodes.
Everything is just about killing the bad guys and stopping things getting worse.
No way of actually helping things to get better.

Festival of the Four Winds was based around raising funds for Lion’s Arch.

Honestly, it’d be ridiculous if the “heroes” of the game were running around picking up garbage in Lion’s Arch when there’s (potentially) a dragon about to make things worse.

ErazorZ.5209:

Stop trying to put words in my mouth,

I’m not. I’m extrapolating your meaning based on your wording.

Here’s what you said:

Okay im sorry but i waited 3 months to see the new season drop and i played it out within hours.

What part of that implies that you’re not claiming that it took three months to give you something you played out within hours?

What my suggestion was was this;
Make them make 2 possible outcomes in this season, 1 is that we all kill the dragon the other is that we dont, but PLAYER driven. Make both of those outcomes, but in the end use them both aswell.

I want to see clear signs of devastation wich we can prevent in the living story but if we dont make it in like 2 weeks (or whatever timeframe) the dragons destroy everything in that area.

Looks to me that your suggestion is that we have a chance to protect various areas, and if we fail, then they’re destroyed.

If you make a dragon super hard to kill (wich its supposed to be) it could take longer then a month(if you use the entire map with events to eventually get towards the great dragon by killing certain generals wich dont respawn at all but are equally hard as a tequatl/worm fight) when S3 shouldve started to finally bring the beast down.

How is this supposed to work with megaservers? Or, for that matter, different servers entirely? If someone on another map version kills a general, does nobody else get a chance to do it? For that matter, would that mean that only the first wave gets to do the fights and everyone else doesn’t count?

That’s a step backwards from making the content accessible at all times.

And above all this, you’re suggesting that they just delete everything they wrote so far to refit the entire story just to make you happy.

Voice your complaints to fans of the Star Wars EU.

Just adding a sense of scale.

ErazorZ.5209:

I obviously meant the new chapter of the new season with that didnt i?

So basically you’re suggesting here that you think that the first chapter took three months, because you seem to not recognize that the three months wasn’t spent on the first chapter, but planning out the whole thing.

You didn’t wait three months to complete the content in a couple hours. You waited three months so that they could be prepared in advance to give you content every other week.

Dont be childish im trying to have a decent discussion here.

or are you one of those no brain farmers who enjoys killing random mobs for 2 weeks straight to get some of the new X item?

They could even make it so cassuals like you can avoid it but not have any value on the story whatsoever.

Since what point?

Well actually the way your stating how they cant make content ahead of time kind of gets nullified if you say they cant do that with my initial idea.

No it doesn’t. You either want them to plan out and prepare every single map, event, dialogue, and scene that could possibly happen so that they can keep their “chapter every fortnight” schedule, or you want them to wait until each chapter is ended to decide what to do next, which means making things with no planning and preparation and just making it up on the fly, which definitely rules out the “chapter every fortnight” schedule, because they’d have to just sit there and wait until each chapter is over.

They can keep their schedule NOW because they have it all planned out in advance because it’s not going to change.

its true we havnt seen the grand finale of S2

You’re misrepresenting how far we actually are. We’re in the first chapter. It’s like judging the entire personal story as soon as you get out of the tutorial zone.

ErazorZ.5209:

Okay im sorry but i waited 3 months to see the new season drop and i played it out within hours. How does that scale?

Wow, really?!?!?

Because the rest of the game is still stuck on chapter 1 since that’s all they’ve released so far. But here’s you, saying you’ve played out the entire season!

Are you from the future? Can you tell me what the winning lottery numbers are for next week?

You don’t honestly think they spent three months working on the first chapter, do you?

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Filaha.1678:

Also, if they integrated PvP into the living story so that I couldn’t avoid it if I wanted to do the PvE content, I’d quit straight up. It’s bad enough I have to suffer through inactivity and PvP in WvW to get map completion.

May I post this to the Jumping Feedback thread? Compared to your attitude vs people who dislike jumping there it is quite amusing and enlightening.

Go ahead. Would you like me to refute your using that as an argument against me here, before you post it there, or would you rather I do it there after you post it in the thread where I took more time to help the argument against jumping than most people who dislike the jumping, especially you?

Yes, three times the work. In fact, that’s a LOW amount.

Like I already said, you either expect them to write, map, and fully develop, including events, every possible branch in advance based on every possible outcome of every chapter, or you expect them to wait until each chapter is over to quickly rush out new maps/story/events/content/dialogue based on what happened in the previous chapter. Which is it?

If you think all of that can be done properly without making each chapter last a total of at least a month, most likely more, you clearly are confused as to what needs to be done when making a game.

And even if they did, people would STILL complain, so what do they get out of it? More work, tighter deadlines, same complaints.

So you’re expecting them to do three times the work, which people will still complain about, for no added benefit to themselves, and under a stricter deadline.

I’m sure you’ll convince them to do that when you can’t even keep from attacking anyone who disagrees with you. They’ll get riiiiight on that.

Edit: And yes, it is a big deal. Living story is PvE content. If you want PvP, there are two places you can go in-game to get it. If I don’t want to PvP, I shouldn’t need to. There are plenty of games that I can go to where they don’t enforce it.

It’s hard enough for them to take their time and sit down and write their own story that people don’t complain about, and you expect them to write the entire story based on two weeks of content and how it’s played by players?

Either you’re expecting them to write the story of every outcome possible well beforehand so that it’s ready in time, or you expect them to write it AS it is being done, including making all maps and included content.

Not to mention voice work.

So what you want is a new living story episode every… what, 3 months?

Also, if they integrated PvP into the living story so that I couldn’t avoid it if I wanted to do the PvE content, I’d quit straight up. It’s bad enough I have to suffer through inactivity and PvP in WvW to get map completion.

You’re not supposed to get extra powder, and the powder didn’t give you the menu. When you use the powder, it turns one of your single boosters into a special booster that gives you the menu that lets you pick which boost you want.

KarateKid.5648:

Scott McGough.6897:

The effect Taimi’s degenerative condition has on her varies. Like a lot of people with chronic pain, she has good days (when she can get around relatively easily) and bad days (where she can’t). The worse her pain is on a given day/time, the worse her limp. As she stated in the Festival of the Four Winds:

PC: How are you feeling?
Taimi: Thank you for asking. My legs are good today discomfortwise, but I can’t get complacent: my mobility is capricious, changing from one hour to the next. Luckily, Scruffy is always standing by.

Hope this helps,

If you kill her, I’m coming after your goldfish (assuming you have goldfish). So unless you want them to sleep with the, ermmm, mammals; she better stay safe.

I, however, would be most pleased if you were to allow my engineer to blow up the rest of the group, then conquer the world alongside Taimi.

Tumult.2578:

What do you need screen shots and videos for? When you get near the top and try the first difficult jump over a long fall is the problem. You fall, and die, and there’s nobody there to rez you so it’s back to the start. 15 times of this (someone actually said 30 seconds) and I hate the story, the jumping and the whole game.

Near the top of what?

You know this isn’t about the jumping puzzle or optional achievements, right?

Let me try and put this in perspective for you. The next segment of the LS2 requires a new combination of jumping backwards while shooting targets at only maximum range, with a ranged weapon, and YOU CANT DO IT no matter how hard you try, and you consider using a Mesmer to get there to be like cheating.

Could you come up with a realistic comparison, please? Try to avoid using fallacies to make your point.

IIRC, it isn’t supposed to start at the docks in LA. When you activate the living story episode in the journal, it’s supposed to send you mail.

Dondarrion.2748:

Filaha, the drop isn’t immediately in front, your lightning pull puts you on that peak and you have to make a slight turn and then drop down on the ledge. Not nitpicking, and apparently those I’m now advocating this case for have left the discussion, so I guess we can conclude here.

I refer you to my original directions again.
“… drop off the ledge immediately in front of you towards the big ledge”. As in, if you’re facing the big ledge, it’s immediately in front of you.

Dondarrion.2748:

You “drop off the ledge immediately” and “do a quick hop” and this is where we take things for granted that others in this thread are concerned because they cannot do this quickly enough. I see to a degree you can line up and face the right direction on that peak where the 1st wind aspect spawns, then once you are in position, renew it and drop down and try the jump to the ledge.

You cut out the important context for the first one though. I said you “drop off the ledge immediately in front of you”, not just " immediately". As in, you just have to fall down to the ledge right in front of you.

And by quick hop, I was referring to the size of the jump, not that you have to do it fast. All the lining up and aiming can be done before picking up the wind crystal, then it just takes running forward and hitting the jump button once to get to the big ledge with the zephyrite.

darkace.8925:

Don’t worry, she’s wearing Plot Armor. She’ll be just fine.

Everyone wears plot armour until it’s time for it to break.

tekfan.3179:

Actually I’d doubt that anyone with remote intelligence goes near a small scarlet-fanatic asura-girl with a huge Golem at her disposal.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Prosperity will be destroyed by the vine-hybrids Taimi wanted to create all along.

Sure… if they’re sane.

The Inquest attacked her first instance, and Aerin fought her (even with help on her side).

Aedelric.1287:

If she is not smart enough to avoid a trap Scarlet sets then she is not worthy of being called an Asura let alone a genius.

Well, Braham DID need to tell her to stand back from the door.

We must have played different living story episodes.

Because in mine, I’m the one that sun dashed, lightning leapt, and wind jumped to the Inquest dampening devices to make it so that the lazy ladies could just portal across.

Pretty sure it wasn’t super-powered NPCs that saved the day there!

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: #9 – I swear this one looks like “I jump on the head of my giant lizard, then up on the rock shelf.”

Haha, you found out my secret to jumping up. My super helpful lizard pet.

Seriously, though, they need to make a better “Stow Pet” mechanic that doesn’t make it pop immediately back out because you take like 10 fall damage and the game thinks you’re being viciously assaulted.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Imho this happens a lot in this game already:

• Legendaries can be bought instead of having everyone to finish map completion / battle tokens and dungeon gifts.
• Traits can be bought instead of taking on the challenge
  etc.

Actually, a fair bit after the traits system came out, I was doing map completion on one of my characters, and went into Orr. I started doing a defend event and had an entire tub of toxic venom poured onto my head by all the people who wanted it to fail so they could do the attack event for their trait. It ended up with them going out of their way to come over and scale it up just so it’d fail. One of the various reasons why I laugh when people say this community is so much better than certain other games.

yksdoris.2194:

Filaha, as an answer to you post about jumps I personally found challenging: those are screenshots 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 and 15. Not impossible, mind. But I do get vertigo when doing the jumps, and I don’t have the best hand-eye coordination to begin with.

On a different note, I find it puzzling how people don’t understand that some things are simply difficult, sometimes plain impossible to other people.

It’s difficult for people to understand because we don’t have the problems. For example, you cite picture 3 as being challenging, when factually-speaking, the jumps are small, don’t require the crystals, and are onto large platforms which it is impossible to fall off of, unless you’re holding the forward button for a very long time after you land. That’s why people who don’t have problems can’t understand why. To us, it just looks like “Okay, there are three platforms big enough to fit about 20 of yourself. Why can’t these be landed on?”

Dondarrion.2748:

So, you post a lot of screenshots but the zone is closed off already at step 2. I’ve tried it. I cannot begin to fathom how the physical limitations works for someone suffering from them, but I spent 30 secs to 1 minute at each crystal spot to “simulate” taking time to turn around, etc.

Me to the rescue again! Please find attached one (1) screenshot detailing an alternate route that negates the need for quickly spinning around with lightning leap still active.

Basically, you pick up the wind aspect and drop off the ledge immediately in front of you towards the big ledge (which, IIRC, the story, if you’re following it, puts a marker over the head of the Zephyrite there anyways) and do a quick hop up to the ledge. You can line yourself up in advance, then pick up the wind crystal and go for it. Once on the ledge, you can run along it and make two hops up to the next wind crystal, neither of which require the wind aspect, so it doesn’t matter how long you take. From then on, you can continue to the rest of the steps.

dkspins.4670:

Filaha.1678:

dkspins.4670:

Actually, I did the Marionette quite often without dying, the Hologram not as well, but doable depending on the group. The Aerin fight was horrible, but was completed. And, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds where the aspects were based on # of charges and not timed. I’m still in my 60’s, but learning new things is important, at least to me. When I stop learning new things they can put me in the ground. <smile>

Okay, so this might sound rude, and I apologize if you take it that way, but it’s sincerely an honest question.

How?

What was it about Marionette that allowed you to stay alive, if not easily, moderately well, yet the jumps (which, again, most of the jumps start from right on top of a crystal which gives you more than enough time to even miss a few jumps) cause a big issue?

Because from my experience with Marionette, most of the fights required you to position yourself constantly and be ready to evade attacks at a moment’s notice. How were you able to do that, but not these jumps?

Also, I take it from your mention of the Bazaar that you would be more acceptable of this content if the crystals only had the limitation of charges, rather than have a timer?

Marionette was a fight, and I am capable of dodging, moving correctly, and fighting. The jumps in the new LS 2 are much harder for me, partially because of not knowing exactly where to go being a new area and yes, the timed aspects added to the difficulty.

So for argument’s sake, let’s say they removed the timer and made it so that you had as much time as you wanted to make the jumps. Would that make it easy, then? Then you wouldn’t have to be concerned about not knowing where to go, as you could take the time to plan out your course.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Semantics/ I don’t even say that the aspects I don’t like should be entirely removed. – The paragraph I quoted was stronger than the paragraph you were paraphrasing.(or whatever) So you were saying to spikyblackhair, “You can believe that if you want to, but I don’t.”?

I’m not sure if you were referring to me with that comment then, since what I said to spikyblackhair included the following:

Dungeons are unrelated to me dressing up pretty. So dungeons should not be a necessity for me filling up my wardrobe, right? I want to explore the map, but I don’t want to PVP. PVP is unrelated to my completion of the map, so it should be removed as a necessity, right?

In the same paragraph where I use the word “remove”, I further clarify “removed as a necessity”.

Well, someone found something from Anet that does seem to tie reflex type stuff into the core game mechanics. Why isn’t more stuff like that in the press releases and promos? Reflex stuff is under-represented in their promo material. And jumping definitely is. And the ZA stuff was certainly never represented as something that would be crucial. And we want to address the gating of mainstream content with jumping and ZA moves. Why can’t this stuff be optional?

Which promo material? I mean, it’s right on their website under the initial information that one could reasonably expect any new potential player to check out. If you wanted to know what the game is like, why would you not check the first-party website and the information about the game contained therein?

And of course the ZA stuff wasn’t represented as something important. It probably didn’t exist at the time it was written, and certainly wasn’t even near to permanent when it was. However, all MMOs need to evolve. Expecting core mechanics now to be the same as core mechanics in two years is expecting stagnation.

This has been explained. How is it you can’t believe that everyone is different, with different skills sets and aptitudes. With different advantages and disadvantages.

You’re still misrepresenting what I’m saying. I can believe that everyone is different. I had to do the jumping puzzle for my significant other because she was having difficulty with it. I know firsthand that not everyone can do the jumping. However, and you’re using the circular assertions yourself here, “being different” doesn’t inherently mean “these jumps are difficult”. That was the purpose of my posting the pictures. I want to know which of those jumps are difficult, and what makes them difficult. So, I would imagine, would Anet need to know. They can’t just refit their game based on vague complaints of difficulty. A specific “Jump A is hard because X” gives them a solid thing to look at and go, “Hm, maybe we could do Y so that Jump A doesn’t have X limiting it any more” without just slapping bridges everywhere to make their new content essentially irrelevant.

Also, people are uncomfortable discussing their shortcomings, especially on an internet forum full of strangers. So no, there aren’t lots of people flocking to take you up on your screen shot offer. Which is actually pretty recent, maybe some people will take your offer

Which, unfortunately for those people, hurts their own request rather than helping. You especially, as well as others, continue to point out that “Just because you can’t do A doesn’t mean you can’t do B”. Which is correct. But did you stop to question why you keep reiterating that? It’s because people who don’t have the difficulties are not going to be able to understand why you can’t if all you offer is vague complaints. dkspins very kindly took the time to list some specific issues which cause difficulty with the jumping. But looking at those issues, it leads to the follow-up question that you like to confront: If you can’t do this jumping due to poor reflexes or hand pain, how were you able to do the previous content which required good reflexes and quick hands in order to not get exploded, stomped, stabbed, or zapped?

And you know what? Anet is going to ask that same question. Probably not in this thread because so far, the majority of responses to that question are “Just because you can’t do A doesn’t mean you can’t do B” without reasons why. So they’re going to ask themselves that question. They’re going to go look at their jumps, and they’re going to see what we “easy jumpers” see. Short jumps with a realistic amount of space to land on requiring little precision or reflexive movement. That’s going to lead them to ask themselves, “Well, if our players need a bridge to get across this short jump because they can’t make it by jumping, will they be able to fight this boss that requires twice the reflexive movement?”

dkspins.4670:

Actually, I did the Marionette quite often without dying, the Hologram not as well, but doable depending on the group. The Aerin fight was horrible, but was completed. And, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds where the aspects were based on # of charges and not timed. I’m still in my 60’s, but learning new things is important, at least to me. When I stop learning new things they can put me in the ground. <smile>

Okay, so this might sound rude, and I apologize if you take it that way, but it’s sincerely an honest question.

How?

What was it about Marionette that allowed you to stay alive, if not easily, moderately well, yet the jumps (which, again, most of the jumps start from right on top of a crystal which gives you more than enough time to even miss a few jumps) cause a big issue?

Because from my experience with Marionette, most of the fights required you to position yourself constantly and be ready to evade attacks at a moment’s notice. How were you able to do that, but not these jumps?

Also, I take it from your mention of the Bazaar that you would be more acceptable of this content if the crystals only had the limitation of charges, rather than have a timer?

dkspins.4670:

I cannot prove to you which jumps are difficult, because they all are for myself personally. Unless you want photos of dead players <g>. If you want to challenge yourself, I suggest you cover one eye with a patch and the screen with vellum, add to that 40 years (along with the lack of sharp reflexes), pain using your hands and the anxiety of not knowing where to go. Not sure what you meant by circular assertions. BTW, PVP has nothing to do with map completion, it is WvW.

If you’re playing with the equivalent of one eye, vellum over the screen, being 70 years old, pain in your hands, bad reflexes, and “anxiety of not knowing where to go” (not quite sure what you mean by that), then is it really jumping that’s the issue?

Wouldn’t the issue really be any content that requires you to… I don’t know, be active and quick? Shouldn’t Marionette and Assault Knights/Prime Hologram/Scarlet herself also have been problems since, according to your list of problems, it seems that avoiding their various insta-down attacks should have been very painful for you, if not impossible?

In fact, shouldn’t the combat content in this itself cause you problems? Especially the Aerin fight, since you need to be on your toes and mobile to not get blown off the side.

Also, none of those jumps I posted pictures of really require any real speed or quick movement. You don’t need to rapidly whip around and line things up in a second. A majority of them, you would do the jump from right on top of the crystal, allowing you all the time you need to prepare. The ones that require multiple jumps, you are granted plenty of time to get up to the top, and most can be done by pushing against the wall and just hitting the 1 button, when you’ll land on the next platform easily.

Circular assertions are when the anti-jumpers say “The jumps are hard because they’re hard.” There’s no reason given why they’re hard. There’s no mention of which are hard.

And WVW is PVP. PVP is, by definition, player versus player. Just because they have a different portion of the game called PVP instead doesn’t mean WVW is not PVP.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Misrepresenting a product as something different than it is would be misrepresentation or false advertising.

Okay.

Experience a new kind of high-impact, fast-paced combat. Attack on the move, dodge and roll away from enemy blows, team up with other players, and take advantage of environmental weapons to dominate the battlefield!

Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast-paced, and dynamic. You’ll achieve victory through timing, dodging, and quick thinking, not immobile number-crunching.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/

They’re clearly representing it as fast-paced and reflex-based.

re: " I have difficulty jumping" = “I want to stand in one place and hit one button over and over” – This is obviously wrong.

That’s not what I was referring to. I was referring to you saying it wasn’t a reflex-based, actiony game.

re: dodging and jumping are the same thing, if you can dodge, you can jump. – Once again this is obviously wrong.

I didn’t say that, though. That, again, was in response to it being reflex-based. The jumps, as shown by my screenshots, are clearly not reflex-based or precise in any way, as a majority of the platforms are actually quite large and you have a huge margin of error.

Thanks again for putting in the time and effort to make the nice screen shots with helpful arrows. Maybe they’ll help some of us.

If it helps somebody out, great. If it helps someone prove the point of why the jumps are particularly difficult, even better.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: If they aren’t willing to champion removing every aspect that people don’t want to do that is unrelated to what they do want to do, then they shouldn’t expect special treatment. – But this thread is only about jumping(and the “jump-like” Zephyrite Aspects). I agree with what you said about dungeons and PvP. But this thread isn’t for that topic. Post on those subjects would be off topic.

Which would be why I didn’t go any further into that than was brought up.

re: <on topic> removing every aspect that people don’t want to do – Once again(for what seems like the billionth time) We don’t want all jumping and/or ZA removed. We just want them to be optional.

Semantics. If you look at the entire paragraph instead of condensing it to the one line, you’ll see that I don’t even say that the aspects I don’t like should be entirely removed. Just optional. I’d be super happy if they made dungeon gear optionally available with karma or gold, and WvW be optional and separate from PVE exploration. When I say “removed”, I am referring more to the “mandatory” portion of them being removed, not the entirety.

They leave her (entirely alone) in Scarlet’s room, which already has displayed being trapped (exploding door!) without checking it thoroughly for any OTHER traps first.

Marjory comments that she’ll be okay because she’s in a village, but this is a village where just a couple story steps previous, a merchant was murdered and everyone just left the body out in the sun. It’s a village pretty much under the thumb of bandits, where people want the outsider Zephyrites gone ASAP to avoid being scrutinized, and they think that someone there is going to raise a hand to stop some random outsider kid from being kidnapped and/or murdered? Probably kidnapped.

Even worse, if someone disables or destroys Scruffy, she’s the one person in the group completely incapable of running away. I might be off, but doesn’t she comment something about Scruffy interfering with the crystals or something like that when on Labyrinthine Cliffs, which is why she’s not allowed on the ship? Could the crystals be used to disable Scruffy?

Also, Braham suggests for her to find a Zephyrite if she thinks she’s in trouble, because “they can be trusted”, but of the three Zephyrites we’ve seen in the story instances, i.e. Morning, Master of Peace, and loosely Aerin, one lies to our face (Kasmeer knows), one was very vague and intentionally keeps secrets from you, and the third tries to kill you all. Can they be trusted?

What’s going to happen to poor, little, defenseless Taimi?

spikyblackhair.4951:

Filaha.1678:

People who just don’t like jumping: Also don’t respond. I don’t like PVP, but was forced to WvW to get my map completion. I don’t like dungeons, but am forced to to get dungeon skins. I don’t like farming, but need to if I want to make Ascended gear. Before you try to get sympathy because you don’t want to jump, you should go fight for WvW to be removed from map completion, which should be an entirely PVE aspect of the game.

In essence, you’re implying here that people who don’t like a specific aspect of the game have no right to speak up about it unless they champion every single other person’s cause as well. Either that, or you believe that because the devs didn’t listen to people’s complaints about WvW, we should not voice any other complaints about the game… either way, I hope this helps you see that it is not the best line of reasoning. And if it doesn’t, then we just have to agree to disagree, because I believe that everybody should have the right to voice their opinions as long as it’s done in a civil manner.

I didn’t say that.

If you read all of what I post and don’t try to misrepresent my statement by taking it out of context, I said to not respond to what I posted, i.e. the pictures.

The point of posting the pictures is to find out which of those jumps are, as people have said, “precision jumps”, and “very hard, if not impossible”. It is not to find out who “just doesn’t want to jump”.

However, if you want to take it that way, yes. If they aren’t willing to champion removing every aspect that people don’t want to do that is unrelated to what they do want to do, then they shouldn’t expect special treatment. I want to be tres fashionaaaabluh, but don’t like dungeons. Dungeons are unrelated to me dressing up pretty. So dungeons should not be a necessity for me filling up my wardrobe, right? I want to explore the map, but I don’t want to PVP. PVP is unrelated to my completion of the map, so it should be removed as a necessity, right? And I expect them all to head over to the thread where people want to get rid of “tiered” content that relies on a bunch of anonymous, random people to work together in order for them to get rewards, because their personal rewards shouldn’t rely on a bunch of unrelated people getting organized.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: But GW2 is an action based reflex MMO – Where have you seen it advertized or represented that way?

It doesn’t need to be advertised as an action-based, reflex MMO. It just is one. Traditional MMOs, which seem to be what you want it to be, generally have you just standing around in combat hitting your attack keys. This one promotes and, in many cases requires, movement and the ability to dodge. If you didn’t have the reflexes, you couldn’t have taken any useful part in the previous living world content. Try to do Marionette fights without the reflexes to dodge and stay mobile. Tell me how long until you’re on the ground. As soon as they put a dodge button in, and made it so that many fights require you to stay mobile in order to not get murdered by a big orange circle, it became a reflex-based game.

But okay, I’m going to be more than fair to all the anti-jumpers who are claiming that there’s a huge amount of precise, very hard, or impossible jumps that you have to do for the story content. I’ve already asked for proof of these jumps and where they are, but got none. So I’ve done the work.

I’ve taken screenshots of every mandatory jump required to get through the story. It is now in the court of the anti-jumpers to show where all these precise, super hard jumps are. Ignore that the character changes for some. The female hasn’t done the story yet.

1. Lightning Aspect to the platform. If you land on any of the ledges below where the Wind Aspect is, you can do a couple small hops up.
2. Lightning Aspect to the wall, then Wind Aspect up to the very big platform above you. Impossible to overshoot. Just target the wall itself and you’ll hit it and fall down.
3. No more than three easy jumps to fairly large platforms (the last being a very big platform). Realistically, you can make it in TWO easy jumps, because you have the wind aspect from beneath.
4. You could either use the Wind Aspect you have to jump straight up to the next huge platform, or hop to the crate and up one more. Again, easy jumps.
5. One Wind Aspect jump to the top of another huge platform. From here you can run to the Story Instance #2.
6. In Story Instance #2, one Lightning Aspect over a short gap to a huge platform. You could only miss the platform if you tried.
7. Two short Wind Aspect hops to fairly large rocks. If you need extra time for these for some reason, you can pick up the Wind Aspect crystal repeatedly to get up to 1:30 in aspect time.
8. Two more Wind Aspect hops to large platforms.
9. Post-Story Instance #2, on the way to Story Instance #3. A few short hops up an incline where you can really just hold forward and jump.
10. Wind Aspect hop to a fairly large ledge.
11. Route #1: Wind Aspect to a large platform, then over a small gap to another fairly large platform.
12. Route #1: Wind Aspect from previous fairly large platform to massive plateau.
13. Route #2: Short Wind Aspect hop from the first large platform in #11 to a ledge on the wall (small ledge, but if you hold forward against the wall and hit your Wind Aspect, you’ll automatically land right on it), then from there to the massive plateau.
14. Route #3: From the first large platform in #11, you can run along the wall to your right and jump to that first large platform just above the fire lizard and then to the massive plateau.
15. Last jump, from the massive plateau to a large ledge. The Wind Aspect gives you more than enough height to easily clear it, with plenty of distance to spare.

So where are the precise, nigh-impossible jumps? Those all seem to be to rather large platforms which require about as much precision as throwing a ball at your wall.

People with lag due to bad computers/internet connections: Don’t respond. The topic here is people being denied main story content due to jumping. If you have a bad computer/internet connection that messes up THESE jumps, I’d be very interested to know how you managed to take part in Marionette and Assault Knight/Holograms last season.

People who just don’t like jumping: Also don’t respond. I don’t like PVP, but was forced to WvW to get my map completion. I don’t like dungeons, but am forced to to get dungeon skins. I don’t like farming, but need to if I want to make Ascended gear. Before you try to get sympathy because you don’t want to jump, you should go fight for WvW to be removed from map completion, which should be an entirely PVE aspect of the game.

I want responses from people who have physical limitations that entirely prevent them from making these jumps. Which of these jumps is hard to do? This is your chance. Prove your point, rather than making circular assertions.

Criminal.5627:

Filaha.1678:

Wait, wait, wait. Hang on.

Let me set something straight. My ranger is perfectly capable of soloing frogface. In fact, it’s easiest on my ranger.

Why?

No dropped combat. If you stand in the right place, even if she knocks you off the platform, you’ll just land on the platform below and can jump up. But your pet stays up there, fighting her, even doing 0 damage. This means that frog NEVER leaves combat, which means she won’t start healing up if you slip up and fall off. Any other class? Nope. She’ll drop from combat and start healing up.

Ranger might not be the fastest class, but it’s the safest.

If you get knocked off the platform, even if the pet is still fighting, you already lost the achievement. So no it is not easier. This is not a question of being able to kill her, this is getting the achievement done without taking the longest amount of time to do it solo, having to avoid being knocked off the top compared to classes that don’t have their damage output affected. Those clases have a much smaller window of error making it easier to do the achievement legetimently because they have much better damage to burn her health down. Who cares about keeping her in combat if it is much harder for your class to compete with other classes for a reward.

I’ve beaten her easily and quickly on my ranger without getting knocked off too. She has a set pattern that rangers can easily avoid by paying attention.

If it’s taking you so long, maybe you should double-check your build and gear.

I was on a T4 map last night that had a group of maybe around 15 to 20-ish people circuiting the crystal shard event (making sure to get the bonus favour for not letting them score) to Tootsie to Nochtli to Prosperity Mine (again making sure to get the bonus favour for not letting one die), and possibly another couple people picking up the root event (which is super easy to even get the bonus favour if you solo it) and the Plume (I think that’s her name) event. I don’t think anyone did the Abandoned Mine events as the door was always closed when I went by.

You definitely don’t need as many people as you did to even have a hope at breaking a SINGLE chain at Marionette, and definitely less than it took to get to see the story after the Prime Hologram.

Crossplay.2067:

Kalavier.1097:

Game mechanics and balance answer much of the “Why can’t my mesmer do that!?!?!” complaints.

Proper game design would limit NPCs to the same mechanics as players and then build storylines, quests, dungeons and other confrontations around those limitations.

So in your opinion, proper game design would homogenize all entities, player or non-player, remotely linked to each other through schools of magic or skill regardless of what the story would have to say about how powerful that person is?

So in your opinion, proper game design would mean there should be no “enemy-only” skills, as they should all only be able to have learned what your character can? No bosses should have special attacks any different from what your player character has, because they couldn’t have possibly learned anything on their own?

So in your opinion, every game might as well just be PVP?

It doesn’t matter that the 1,000-year-old guy has been studying magic for 975 of those years. He still shouldn’t have learned any spells that my 20-something character hasn’t!

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: Clearly the living story content is not mandatory to enjoy the game. – Neither is jumping mandatory to enjoy the game. But do you want jumping? – Yes. And do I want Living Story? – Yes.

Not really.

I honestly don’t care whether there’s jumping in it or not. In fact, I’ve not even done a majority of the jumping puzzles as I could take or leave the jumping.

If you check my initial post in here, my position is made quite clearly. I don’t think jumping should be removed for people who just don’t want to. I don’t want to run dungeons, but if I want to get the skins (I do), I need to. So I’ll suck it up and do it, not petition Anet to make them available through karma or gold.

For the people who can not do the jumping, because of physical limitations, for example, then it’s rough, and it sucks to have to rely on other people (although you had to for previous living world content as well), but there are ways around it.

Would I care if Anet listened to the people here and removed the jumping from the story content? No. I’ve never represented that they should not remove the jumping, just that if they do, it should be a fair reason, not people who “just don’t care for it”.

Ashandar.2570:

Porting – well, it helps with the first bit and gives access to the second waypoint, but you still have to use aspects to get to the story instances, and you have to use aspects in the story instances as well.. If someone asks in map chat I will help with a port and guide them to the second waypoint, I am however unsure how much good it will do.

You do have to use aspects, right. But they’re not hard jumps. They require no precision or fast timing. If someone is completely incapable of making those jumps, then I don’t see why they’re complaining about jumping, since I don’t see how they could have contributed to the world events like Marionette or the assault knights/holograms, which required a better PC and better reflexes to not spend the fight laying on the ground.