Guild Wars 2

Getting help when saying you don’t want any, or just when the helping is being forced on you, in a game setting anyway, is pretty rude to be honest. I find it annoying too.

Then again it’s just a trashmob. It’s not some fun spoiling thing.

Some maps/locations are better than others for fighting trashmobs. I can find many locations no one ever comes by. I even know locations where people don’t even know there is an event which I usually try to solo. (The game could use more of these in my opinion) It’s really about picking a right spot. It’s very likely it’s not as secluded as you think it is.

Plus ofcourse, the obvious other locations for testing things out that are actually made for it.

Vinceman.4572:

Roxanne.6140:

nope, and i’ve been playing MMOs probably even before you learnt to talk. yes i’m that old.

btw, what is the expansion about? age-gated? adults only? below 14 only? i need to prep.

Yeah, of course, the majority of all games, especially MMOs, has always players available for every content, only GW2 is a mess. Keep on dreaming. ^^

Regarding your attitude and broken language it’s more than obvious that you are 5-10 years younger than me.

I wouldn’t put a number on attitude and broken language. I seen people ranging from 12 till 80 to be completely childish and probably just as well as mature and well behaved.

I’ve seen people complain they are too old to play to to young to play and vice versa.

No amount of experience is better used than social experience. You can play 1000s of single player games or even Multiplayer ones and still be completely crap at the social interactions that a PuG needs to succeed. I must say, that a huge majority of PUGs I attended to, whether successful or not, were positive and accepting, if you’re honest, open, or silent and retracted at the right times.

Tournaments will fail because people will lose. And people hate losing! And the puppy prize isn’t worth near as much as when you win.

Okay then.

If you can’t stand losing, don’t play PvP. If you want to win, you need to get better, team with better people, find out what YOU did wrong, before you find out what went wrong on your team.

I mean, the PvP in this game is low population, you only will play with the people from your neighbourhood, some of those people are top tier, and some are just not so good.
No amount of tiering system is going to give you a better experience. Mostly because that would just mean you would maybe win one match every once in a while, and then still don’t get mroe reward because you’re so low on the tiering system that you barely qualify for reward.

All it does is reminding me of a child that wants to play football/soccer outside and all the kids in his neighbourhood are (way) better at it than him. To which he says, football will fail, because I can’t play it.

I can open one if you’re in EU
Might take a while to find one though. They have a fairly long cooldown these days

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

It’s a different genre of game, because it’s completely different. You can’t randomly run into strangers while playing in the “open world”.

Yes, it’s completely different in that one aspect of the game. :p
Not to argue that it’s not a CORPG. Nor that that aspect isn’t different enough for its own genre btw. But to say it’s completely different is obviously not true.

As to the previous request, it was regarding the reason of why they called it differently, not that they called it differently. I already knew that one. I just badly quoted it. I was wondering if they actually said it was to temper people expectations, or if it was to stand out or both. I never heard them say either, though, but to say it’s not to stand out is kind of silly as the whole game stood out anyway.

Oh and even ArenaNet acknowledges the many similarities with an MMO:

Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?

Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences.
Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, kill stealing, and lines to complete a quest.

Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. But Guild Wars eliminates much of the tedium of traveling through the world. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they’ve previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one’s guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-on-guild warfare or the international tournament. But engaging in combat is always the player’s choice; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.

Finally, unlike existing MMOs, all characters in Guild Wars inhabit the same virtual world -they are not divided onto different servers or shards- so players can always team up with or compete against any other player in the world.

I love how people take a single word and try to disprove a premise by taking the word literally. That’s not how arguments work. Dogs and cats are completely different animals, even though no one can deny they have similarties. MMOs and lobby games are completely different animals for any number of reasons even though they too have similarites.

(…)

They are completely different types of games, even though they have similarities.

I was just being technical. You can compare GW1 and GW2. As long as you don’t lose the picture that they are different games. They just aren’t completely different games.

hell, I even stated that I wasn’t trying to disprove anything other than that.

I would say that’s probably just because it’s a 3D designed image of a bandana. It’s not always easy to make it look realistic.

But I think a Bandana could be quite cool yeah.

Vayne.8563:

It’s a different genre of game, because it’s completely different. You can’t randomly run into strangers while playing in the “open world”.

Yes, it’s completely different in that one aspect of the game. :p
Not to argue that it’s not a CORPG. Nor that that aspect isn’t different enough for its own genre btw. But to say it’s completely different is obviously not true.

As to the previous request, it was regarding the reason of why they called it differently, not that they called it differently. I already knew that one. I just badly quoted it. I was wondering if they actually said it was to temper people expectations, or if it was to stand out or both. I never heard them say either, though, but to say it’s not to stand out is kind of silly as the whole game stood out anyway.

Oh and even ArenaNet acknowledges the many similarities with an MMO:

Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?

Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences.
Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, kill stealing, and lines to complete a quest.

Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. But Guild Wars eliminates much of the tedium of traveling through the world. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they’ve previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one’s guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-on-guild warfare or the international tournament. But engaging in combat is always the player’s choice; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.

Finally, unlike existing MMOs, all characters in Guild Wars inhabit the same virtual world -they are not divided onto different servers or shards- so players can always team up with or compete against any other player in the world.

Yeah, guaranteed success is not something that is part of raids, I think, plus it’s not really part of any game. If you don’t try to make it, you will never make it.

The biggest part of raids is falling down and getting up again, and doing it better. Ofcourse, even within raid groups that is a thing that many players are incapable of and/or simply don’t like.

Get a build that’s accepted in the meta including food and utility, and then join a group without a requirement or better a training run. Most of them are accepting. Ofcourse, finding out if you fit that group and then waiting too long is usually what makes you miss an opportunity. ( I often missed groups just because I was like, “but I dunno the mechanics that well, but I wanna learn, but I dunno if I fit or whether they aren’t trolls But…oh wait its already gone”)

If I find a group I usually keep quiet after the first hello and on the background until a direct question is asked, or some random conversation is going on. (Or if i know the encounter well enough really) If asked to ping some random stuff, ignore the first time they ask, and be honest when they are persistent. (Alot don’t ask twice) And if you know a role to do in the encounter, that’s even better. If asked to fill a role you can’t, just leave yourself.

Sometimes you will get kicked, fair enough people want some experience in the groups. To be fair, I never have been kicked, just by being communicative, and filling a role that was expected of me. Other times they don’t even ask a second time and you’re suddenly in a fairly experienced group. Though it does get noticed if you mess up really bad.

I usually just join groups without a requirement, it’s usually the same people even. I also try to have some sort of a meta build, and knowing the mechanics from the wiki, as well as joining training runs. I just kept joining those until I became alot more comfortable with the mechanics, and then tried to follow them to the best of my ability. Usually sticking to the commander works out.

Then again, I feel like I am generally fast with learning new things and being fairly observant, so that works in my advantage.

But yeah, it’s funny that raids are added for a “vocal minority” before HoT, and when people complain now it’s said Anet shouldn’t listen to another supposed “vocal minority”. In the end, Anet is free to decide if they can and are able to add an easier experience of raids that doesn’t interfere too hugely with the current setup. ( I doubt they want to do that themselves either)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet tried the whole “living world” thing to the best of their ability. That was Season 1. People hated it, so they went a different route, but they kept the name. Simple as that.

Don’t expect a true “living world” from a game ever, in all honesty, especially a MMO. It’s just too much work. From the actual content to ensuring bugs don’t mess everything up.

@FrizzFreston: The problem with trying to do that is that you’re either adding exponentially more work as you set up dialogues to be client based (and character based), so as to avoid spoiling new players, or you spoil new players to content they’ve not come close to.

Their choice was to do neither, so as to avoid spoiling new players and because they do not have the manpower to alter hundreds of thousands of dialogues on a bimonthly basis. And in the end, except for where Current Events come in and alter only part of a map (like Season 1 and some of Season 2 did), they treat each map as being “stuck in time”. So The Grove is set in 1325 AE, while the revelation of sylvari origins is in 1328 AE.

You know, I actually didn’t think of spoiling newer players. That’s actually a pretty good point. You’d always need to work around it, or splitting up maps. Or let everything work out in instances. (or completely ignore that you are spoiling players) Perhaps they could’ve done something in home instances, or in a story instance that was to that effect. In LW1 it did work because previous stuff was removed entirely, thus there was no spoiler, and with replayable content that can’t work out in a simple way.

The hundreds of thousands dialogues on a bimonthly basis is ofcourse not even a suggestion I was trying to make. You can also show change differently. Or to another type of effect. Though spoiling other players while the story is still there to be played, might make it hard to change some dialogue and then not spoil what is going on. it would be like watching a series while the latest episode is playing in the background.
But yeah, you can’t just discard the criticism because my suggestion is bad.

I don’t think I would ever really leave GW2. I would not play as much as I used to, also because real life really. It’s still easy to pick up to play casually, though it also depends what they are doing with the next expansion.

It really must say something that the revelation of Flashpoint has been received more negative than positive. It’s a big change, yet it fell flat on its behind in the reception. Which does say something about such a big impactful revelation. While with LW1 it was like, WTF is going on we need to know more, I almost feel like with LW3 it’s like, oh right, so that’s what’s probably going to happen. It doesn’t really affect like, the whole rest of the world.

- “A big bloodstone exploded? That stuff from legends?”
- “Eh, that’s over there in the jungle no one is losing his kitten over that.”
- “Oh Balthazar is walking amongst us?”
- “Yeah man, I dunno what’s that about, probably not true.”
It should rock the foundations of Divinity’s Reach or the whole Human Race. Even my made up little snippets is more of a reaction.

Just like the Sylvari barely got touched in HoT to be fair. It was a huge revelation that didn’t make an impact on the actual world. The Sylvari at the Pale tree just said what they usually said. It’s not like a big panic, no battles were fought, no strife no drama. well I suppose the Pale tree was belly up.
- “Hey did you know that Sylvari are dragon minions?”
- “K man, this city is still chill, man.”
It’s like lately, story has become somewhat of a defunct firecracker.

TL;DR: To some extend, by losing the ability to make an impact on the actual existing world, no matter how hard it is to pull off, they lost some of the ability to make an impact on the player.

Rauderi.8706:

K. Bye.

You’re expecting a lot more from an MMO than it can provide, especially in a story context. ANet tried an actual Living World, and it didn’t work out, because they discovered that beyond their limited means to produce content, they were throwing it away. It’s an MMO, of course choices don’t matter. If your choices mattered, then it would have to change the entire world around your choices, which just doesn’t work in an environment where everyone is the main hero. That’s just.. basic facts.

So, good luck finding the game you want, but it’s not going to be an MMO.

A true living world can work, as long as people don’t have the expectation that they can login and not miss out. It’s not that throwing away content is bad, it’s just that paying customers expect to get access to that content. This works in other games with phasing content in and out as you progress, but GW2 doesn’t have this technology.

Other than that, Living Season 1 was mostly ended because their 2 week schedule was hard on the developers themselves, and because they couldn’t do the content justice.
As far as changing the world, this still is going on with current events and in season 2 where they changed bits of the world regardless.

I think they can totally pull it off still, as long as they are careful with how they put it in. Rewards should be obtainable after an event has passed, don’t tie Achievement points or other permanent progression to it, or make them obtainable after an event has passed. (A huge thing is that people kept asking how long current event were or are going to be in the game, even a few months back. Mostly because of the achievement points.) Also don’t remove content until absolutely necessary. Like when it’s being replaced.

Ofcourse, solely temporary content doesn’t work either. Adding to the world as well as changing it would be necessary. Plus not a too short time for people to able to play and a indication when something important is going to end would be needed.

But yeah, it’s definitely not mainstream.

I would say Guardian, as a profession that can do everything well but is never top of the class so to speak. Plenty of condi removal, plenty of projectile reflect, Summons for pets, signets for pure passive.

I must say that condition damage it’s harder to pull off. And with raiding you’re the less popular choice, because of not being top of the class (druid heals better, ele daredevils and others do more damage, and condi is just not enough). It’s just the problem of being such a hybrid class.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Mavis.1463:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mavis.1463:

jheryn.8390:

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

The wiki also got recently changed on April 27th to show MMORPG where it has been shown as competitive/cooperative online rpg.

lol
Because there’s no such thing as a “CORPG”.
That’s a term coined by anet to make GW1 stand out.

By that definition, there’s no such thing as stainless steel (a termed coined by a company attempting to pass off “silverware” not made of silver). Every modern term, including MMO, started as someone’s idea of how to label something that they thought important.

MMO has become a catch all for any game that allows an arbitrary number of people to play at any given time. That’s the part that GW1 includes — there’s no limit for sign ups.

But in practice, people play MMOs to share maps with massive amounts of players. GW1 can’t do this. Most maps only allow 8 people (with exceptions of 4, 6, and two with 12).

That’s why ANet called it a Cooperative game rather than an MMO — not to “stand out,” but to temper people’s expectations of the gameplay.

Is that your deduction, or do you have a quote, because I never heard them say that.. Or I might’ve forgotten. If the gw1 wiki talk/discussion on the subject is any indication, it seems that it used to be competitive, before it was cooperative.

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You know, the information found in Wikis is only as good as the lay-person editing the page. Anyone can edit a page and place whatever information they choose.

There aren’t enough non-stardard MMO-type games, probably, to merit a CORPG separate entry.

Of course, that doesn’t make a game any less a CORPG, rather than a true persistent-world MMORPG.

Just need to point out that GW2 does not have a true persistant world either. It’s all instances. So I guess GW2 is a CORPG too

Well if you want to get technical, WvW maps are persistent if nothing else, even if they reset once a week. But the meaning is clear.

Guild Wars 2 has a world were MASSIVE amounts of players can PLAY together at the same time. Guild Wars 2 didn’t.

That’s the point of a massively multiplayer online game. In Guild Wars 1 you played with at most 11 other people. No one I know would consider that massively multiplayer.

Playing with 100 people at the same time in the same event? That’s more like what an MMO means.

If you really want to get technical, several of the seasonal events definitely let you play with a large amount of players at the same time.

Not to mention community events held just as massively.

It’s alot more sensible to put GW1 in a gray area between MMO and just MO, than to hold on to some ideal MMO standard that is most likely changing over time. I mean, really, the only thing that is being held onto is the amount of players you’re playing with, all the while the similarities between each of the games are extensive and very obvious.

Plus, even GW1 had grind. There were lots of even more grindy farming methods than gw2 has. Ranger trapping in UW, 55HP monk solo, 600hp monk solo, etc.

Wanted an Icy dragon sword? Get ready to farm. Wanted obsidian armor? Get ready to farm. Crystalline Blade, anyone? And all of it was RNG.

I might agree with you if Anet themselves have said that Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO, both directly and implied by the original Guild Wars 2 FAQ. I don’t think it’s going out too far on a limb to say that Anet knows what they’re making better than either you or I.

You hold way too much value in the terms itself. The "CORPG"term itself changed from Competitive ORPG to Cooperative ORPG as GW1s focus shifted from PvP to more PvE with Nightfall and EotN. So the whole term is slippery slope at best, and to be fair, it may as well have been a PR stunt, because that is actually a great idea, as long as you can live up to it.

Because it’s both instanced and has big populated towns where massive amounts of players can interact with eachother, it is very much in the gray area between an MMO and a normal MORPG. Whether you call that CORPG or just a different kind of MMO, I don’t really care.

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You know, the information found in Wikis is only as good as the lay-person editing the page. Anyone can edit a page and place whatever information they choose.

There aren’t enough non-stardard MMO-type games, probably, to merit a CORPG separate entry.

Of course, that doesn’t make a game any less a CORPG, rather than a true persistent-world MMORPG.

Just need to point out that GW2 does not have a true persistant world either. It’s all instances. So I guess GW2 is a CORPG too

Well if you want to get technical, WvW maps are persistent if nothing else, even if they reset once a week. But the meaning is clear.

Guild Wars 2 has a world were MASSIVE amounts of players can PLAY together at the same time. Guild Wars 2 didn’t.

That’s the point of a massively multiplayer online game. In Guild Wars 1 you played with at most 11 other people. No one I know would consider that massively multiplayer.

Playing with 100 people at the same time in the same event? That’s more like what an MMO means.

If you really want to get technical, several of the seasonal events definitely let you play with a large amount of players at the same time.

Not to mention community events held just as massively.

It’s alot more sensible to put GW1 in a gray area between MMO and just MO, than to hold on to some ideal MMO standard that is most likely changing over time. I mean, really, the only thing that is being held onto is the amount of players you’re playing with, all the while the similarities between each of the games are extensive and very obvious.

Plus, even GW1 had grind. There were lots of even more grindy farming methods than gw2 has. Ranger trapping in UW, 55HP monk solo, 600hp monk solo, etc.

Wanted an Icy dragon sword? Get ready to farm. Wanted obsidian armor? Get ready to farm. Crystalline Blade, anyone? And all of it was RNG.

And sometimes people use an invented word to ignore all similarities between GW1 and GW2 and take the stance that you cannot compare them regardless of the similarities, merely to prove people wrong.

I mean, you don’t go around saying that Raids, Dungeons, Personal Story and living world instances cannot be a part of an MMORPG because it’s technically “CORPG”-material.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Blanche Neige.7241:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

On the contrary, it succeeded wonderfully. The game is still going strong with most of the core components of the original game (no traditional trinity, no competition for nodes, shared loot, no gear treadmill, play as you like to earn rewards, etc)

“Play as you like to earn rewards” = false.

Many things force you to play raid, or fractals or wvw if you want to earn them. Even if you don’t want to.

A lot of the older players were drawn into the game by the so called “manifesto”. And they failed on a lot of points on it.

GW2 is not a bad game, but it’s far from what many of the first players expected it would be.

I play as I like and earn rewards. There are plenty of exceptions of rewards that are tied to specific content, but that was true when the game launched (e.g. dungeon skins). I don’t have to play HoT to build ascended gear, which are the type of rewards that ANet was talking about. They didn’t ever mean that you could run whatever you liked wherever you liked and get whatever you wanted; they meant that you could get top gear without having to repeat the same things over and over again, like people do in other games.

And sure, this game isn’t the way it used to be. But honestly, it was never the way that some people expected or wanted. Like any good gaming company, ANet keeps evolving the game into something that lots of people like. It might no longer appeal to everyone who preordered it in 2012, but it appeals to tons of people 5 years later. Since every game loses its early adopters, bringing in new people is the better benchmark for success.

Sadly success is so mainstream. Instead of creating the unique experience they set out to do and defying existing conventions they did “listen to the community”a tad too much to also keep those goals.

While aiming high is great, and getting that big audience and such might get the bigger bucks or whatever, it comes at the cost of uniqueness and taking less and less risks.

You could smoothtalk it like a businessperson, or you talk passionately about a game that could be more. In the end it really should be something in between. In fact I would wager that the more Guild Wars 2 tries to get more and more players by trying to appease to the biggest audience it would lose some of it more unique flavours and become a bit more bland.

In the end, you could say LW1 was a failure or did not work, or whatever opinion you hold, but if you were there, and you took part in it, that is something that has shaped Tyria forever. That’s an experience no one who will start playing this game will ever have, not even if they bring it back. Because if they bring it back, it will be different, and it will have a completely different experience as you can replay it. Same with other parts or other NPCs now gone.

In a way, I would almost suggest that they shouldn’t bring LW1 back ever, because it would taint that experience. Except that now the story is cut into pieces, which just reads/plays like a book with a few chapters missing.

PvP really needs a proper /gg command to kill yourself anyway. One that obviously doesnt count points, deaths, and maybe even asks teammates to confirm in case of trolling.

I dunno, There’s also chickens, sloth, plushy backitems and all other kind of stuff that could be considered laughable. Whole armors that are on fire that supposedly must be fine as a firehazard. Or glow-in-the-dark armor. Shoulders that make bats fly around you let it locally snow over your character. Not to mention invisible shoes, bees that follow you, pixels that appear around your character or some ghostly aura. And ofcourse the more generic hazardous spikes that should slice your characters face open if worn.

It was more to illustrate that it’s actually not that weird to have candles if you really like candles. In fact it’s more ritualistic than anything. Occult if you will.

Mavis.1463:

Arenanet tried to reinvent the wheel and failed catastrophically.

Obviously it’s all subjective. A game is not a wheel and it never will be.
If you read other people opinions, you notice they are mixed that it was both liked as well as disliked.

I personally wish ArenaNet took your stance, if you didn’t like it, just play another game.

Bearhugger.4326:

Linken.6345:

Bearhugger.4326:

No compromise, please! A replayable season 1 should be just like the replayable season 2, 3, etc. Take the important parts of season 1 (there aren’t that many) put them into instances and tell the story that way. If it’s too much work for them they’re more than justified to charge gems for the episodes, but I want a full-blown story chapter, not fractals.

You do know that most of season 1 was open world right?

Of course I know, but how do you want to relive world-changing events such as the destruction of old Lion’s Arch if it remains open world? You can’t.

What people want them to do is a remake of season 1 that plays in instances so that you can live the story and it’s major dungeons and battles solo. Yes, that means taking things like Tower of Nightmares and the battle of Lion’s Arch and making solo instanced versions of those where you play with your bros of Dragon’s Watch.

So basically, season 1 would be new content, simply because the actual content of season 1 is not reusable in the new format. New content, which would monopolize some development resources, but if they put a season 1 I want an actual story I can play through, not some half-done excuse like a fractal or a bunch of cutscenes. If they have to charge for it I will be happy to pay up, but I want a real season, in the current format. Nothing less.

To be fair. Both the fractal option as the normal story instance option need to greatly overhaul any content. Especially if there is stuff that is broken due to years of updates. I doubt there’s great benefit from doing fractals or normal story instances.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

FrizzFreston.5290:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Menadena.7482:

The problem with having it in fractals is not everyone plays them.

I wrote low level so about lvl 1-25 difficulty . this should be accessible, also the fractals portal would be very suited to this suggestion as fractals is a containment of (ancient) moments in history you can go to and try to correct.

Other level encounters could be added or just used from existing fractals as a collection of levels needed to be played in sequence with the movies reinstated.

Or just, you know. Not in fractals. I don’t think its a good idea to distort the fractal experience just to add the living story season 1.

Could just as well turn the rift manipulator into class V and open story instances with that. Because the Charr that fixesvit obviously imo has some reality jumping going on where he doesnt remember you.

Plus story works so much better when its not balanced to 5man instances.

The fractals exprience is just a collection of events from teh past you are thrusted into, IMHO it would make sense to have people find out things from the past in this environment, it seems sound in a lore perspective. I doubt we would need a whole new coencept f fractals, We just need 1 more Krewe member who can direct people to this content.

And story is 5 man anyways.

Story isn’t purely 5 man and never has been. Its always been about the commander never about his partymembers.

Plus putting living story Season 1 out of line with personal story and season 2 is just confusing. Personal story already makes perfect use of old Lions Arch for story without it needing fractals to return to. It really doesnt make a difference whether Rifts, historian NPCs fractals or just normal chronological order story instances with some subtle hints of it being in the past.

So in the end, its really a design choice. I think what they did with personal story and the sepia post processing and fixing the story into one chronological piece ( Pers. Story-LW1-LW2 etc.) in the open world is better than a magimetaphysical fractals book to read afterwards. Which you can already do with the story journal anyway.

Plus it leaves the fractals alone for more serious group content.

Not that I think your idea is terrible btw… i just very much prefer it in the story journal and open world.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Almost everything worth salvaging from season 1 has been salvaged. The story, such as it was, was embarassingly awful and should never see the light of day again.

Turn the marionette battle and the retaking of LA into fractals, and that’s everything worthwhile from it.

I tend to agree partially,

Making the present LS 1 fractals replayable in fractals in a low level special fractal sequence called “Return to Scarlet’s War”

I Rise of Scarlet

• Introduction to Ceara (could see Dry top holo projector in scarlet’s room LS S2 E1)
• Steam creatures in Lake of Lamentation
• Thaumanova Fractal

II Scarlet’s armies:
a) Molten Alliance

• Molten Furnace Fractal
• Molten Boss Fractal
  b) Aetherblades
• Not so Secret
• Aetherblade Fractal
• Mai Trin Fractal
  -Intermission-
• Treason; The Betrayal of the Watchwork Knights
  c)Toxic Alliance
• events are still active in Kessex Hills
• Nightmare (toxic alliance)
• the Watchwork Marionette (either cinematic or actual reinstation of the event. The marionette rebooted? )

III The Demise of Scarlet: Lion’s Arch under Siege!

• Assault on LA (instance, old LA)
• Breachmaker (instance)

And complement these with the story line (could be harvested from season 1)) with the cinematics detailing “The Rise and Fall of Scarlet Briar”
This would finish it, and this should include the fight in the Breachmaker as the destruction of old LA as well… and make Scarlet’s Legacy more understandable…

I would turn that into:
Meeting Rox and Braham ( Molten Alliance)

Meeting Canach and Kasmeer ( Trouble at Southsun)

Meeting Marjory (and Kasmeer) plus voting for Kiel ( Assasination on Theo and finding atherblades, visitting zephyrites)

Meeting Scarlet With Rox and Braham ( Watchwork knights and Queens jubilee)

Investigating toxic alliance with kasmeer and Marjory

Meeting Taimi (Watchwork marrionette and investigations into preparations for a big attack can hint at thaumanova and Aetherpath)

And then Escape/ Attack on Lions Arch.

I never thought the story was that bad at all to be honest. Just felt very directionless at the time because of all the loose parts. If not the longer times in between connected parts.

Looking back, its too much to keep track of over a longer period.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Menadena.7482:

The problem with having it in fractals is not everyone plays them.

I wrote low level so about lvl 1-25 difficulty . this should be accessible, also the fractals portal would be very suited to this suggestion as fractals is a containment of (ancient) moments in history you can go to and try to correct.

Other level encounters could be added or just used from existing fractals as a collection of levels needed to be played in sequence with the movies reinstated.

Or just, you know. Not in fractals. I don’t think its a good idea to distort the fractal experience just to add the living story season 1.

Could just as well turn the rift manipulator into class V and open story instances with that. Because the Charr that fixesvit obviously imo has some reality jumping going on where he doesnt remember you.

Plus story works so much better when its not balanced to 5man instances.

Djinn.9245:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Daddicus.6128:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mastery points are the same for HoT whether they come from the expansion maps or the LS3 maps. Considering that you have to max masteries from both to get XP, I don’t see why there needs to be a distinction.

Because the point I was making is that one needs to collect a bunch of adventure MPs to complete HoT.

I agree that they’ve done a good thing by having more MPs available on the LS S3 maps. But, it’s not enough (yet) to offset the mistake made in HoT. (“Mistake” is in my opinion.) Plus, it requires playing through LS S3 in order to complete HoT. That just feels wrong.

You will never completely complete HoT without doing adventures. Depending on what you consider being complete anyway. But since Adventures ARE a part of HoT, and you’re talking about “completing” HoT.

It will always be, “I completed HoT! …except Adventures.”

In your opinion. I could also say that you didn’t really complete HoT until your character has actually been in every little space on the map. Obviously neither is counted as completion in any “official” way so it doesn’t matter.

Well if we’re counting only official completions… adventures are a part of that. So im not sure why youre talking about made up completions.

But youre right, one could also say that you completed HoT by just doing mapcompletion and story and everything else is just extra. Thus you don’t need adventures to complete HoT.

But for me, as long as i still have achievements to do then I havent completed HoT in my opinion yeah.

Daddicus.6128:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mastery points are the same for HoT whether they come from the expansion maps or the LS3 maps. Considering that you have to max masteries from both to get XP, I don’t see why there needs to be a distinction.

Because the point I was making is that one needs to collect a bunch of adventure MPs to complete HoT.

I agree that they’ve done a good thing by having more MPs available on the LS S3 maps. But, it’s not enough (yet) to offset the mistake made in HoT. (“Mistake” is in my opinion.) Plus, it requires playing through LS S3 in order to complete HoT. That just feels wrong.

You will never completely complete HoT without doing adventures. Depending on what you consider being complete anyway. But since Adventures ARE a part of HoT, and you’re talking about “completing” HoT.

It will always be, “I completed HoT! …except Adventures.”

Djinn.9245:

FrizzFreston.5290:

But other than that, being part of some off mainroad reward collection, I really think it’s a matter of owning up to it or setting a different goal.

Or, we could express our dissatisfaction and Anet could change it like they did with Map Completion. Everyone saying “this is the way it is, deal with it” don’t seem to understand that developers change their games all the time.

I think it’s a common misconception that they change things merely because people complained about some issue. If you make enough of a compelling argument where it actually makes alot of sense to change it, a developer might say, yeah this is really an issue. And they need to make time to actually make the change, based upon how much effort they want to spend fixing it.

In some cases it really could be seen as an issue. With map completion it also disrupted WvW play with an incentive that doesn’t help WvW match itself. It would be like having map completion in PvP arenas, it just makes the gameplay messy.

With mastery points/collections with adventure objectives its “I like PvE but I don’t like this specific part of PvE.” It’s basically cherry picking. Combined with what you get from doing them it’s very much a handful of skins and a handful of mastery points that you don’t really need.

Faaris.8013:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Sorry, are Adventures really solo content, or are people just labeling that because it’s convenient and playing into their opinions?

I consider them solo content because you have to play them solo. Leaderboards exist since arcade games in the late 70’s. At Space Invaders, you could see the high scores of people who played it maybe months ago. I don’t think that comes close to a multi player feeling. When my brother and I played Tetris and competed in beating the other one’s highscore, it wasn’t multiplayer. If we connected our Game Boys with a cable and were able to impact the other one’s game by filling lines, that was multi player.

I must admit that was more of a philosophical stretch. I mean, by that definition I was going with, nothing really is a solo game. I mean, Djinn proposed you shouldn’t need to ask for help, because it’s solo. Which just reminds me of harder achievements in other games, where you often had to ask for help to find that one last secret or even to walkthrough through it, because of a hard puzzle or section.

Considering the collection is a side objective, albeit with a unique reward, asking for help with any of those tasks seems only natural to me. I personally wouldn’t need the help with adventures, but since it IS a multiplayer game the options are there. Hell you might not even like the content, I can understand that. But that is true for every reward ever imo. There might always be someone who doesn’t like to do part x in a game, it doesn’t warrant for removal of the challenge.

But to be honest, if I were to go by my personal opinion, I never really liked the idea of Adventures in their current shape AS part of the gameworld. Maybe one per map or maybe only in cities (why isn’t shooting gallery from Verdant brink in Divinity’s reach to begin with !)
But other than that, being part of some off mainroad reward collection, I really think it’s a matter of owning up to it or setting a different goal.

Faaris.8013:

FrizzFreston.5290:

There’s no solo-only content in an MMO. An MMO is about community as much as it is about playing the game.

But, but…adventures are solo-only content, and GW2 is an MMO game.

What I meant to say with that, is that they don’t exist in a vacuum. And saying that they should be able to completed completely alone is ridiculous. Especially with a leaderboard attached to the adventures, it clearly is not solo content. If you wanted to get gold there would be a list at of people at the ready which you could use for advice right there ingame. Even more so since it takes people from your friendslist.

Sorry, are Adventures really solo content, or are people just labeling that because it’s convenient and playing into their opinions?

Yaj.5973:

coro.3176:

Good.

People in this game are far too focused on getting rewards.

Back in the good ol’ days we pvp’d with no rewards except Glory!

I PvP’d for Balthazar points. (or whatever it was called)
And later. Kurz/Lux points

<3 Zkeys.

You mean, faction.

Though I do remember red resign days for Hero arenas.. jesus the flame when you didn’t. xD

Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946:

Did Anet say that they wanted each map to be a snapshot stuck in time? So, even though we killed Zhaitan, the Eye will still keep coming back and having to be killed since that map is a snapshot of that instant in time. Lake Doric will forever keep having White Mantle attack Saidra’s Haven and DR…long after we’ve killed Caudecus and gutted the ranks of the White Mantle. And the millions of Centaurs wiped out by the Engineers. So exactly why can’t we have the Cliffside map with the Zepharites and their airship again while it is simultaneously spread across Dry Top? DT is stuck in time…sometime after the Bazaar of the Four Winds in Cliffside.

Good point, really. If they want things stuck in time, as much as I hate that they said that, then they should follow through and reintroduce (parts of) older maps. Why can’t the watchknight encounter exist anymore? why can’t the legendary Karka return? because timelines? Nuh-uh time doesn’t exist in Tyria, maps are stuck in timeloops. (yup I still dislike that notion xD)

Plot-twist: What we think is The Mists is the real world and we are actually playing in The Mists!

Djinn.9245:

Since Adventures are a solo-only activity, and are not End Game content, there should be no need for help. You should be able to simply play them and complete them. I don’t need hints or outside information to do other events in the game. Why make Adventures so difficult that people need outside help?

Not that I want to do Adventures in the first place. I want to play an RPG, not mini-games. So I agree that no mini-games should be required for content that is not mini-game oriented.

There’s no solo-only content in an MMO. An MMO is about community as much as it is about playing the game. In fact, many people have resorted to help from third parties in single player games since the dawn of ages with walkthroughs and whatnots. Of course back then, gamers were actually serious about playing the game and not about arbitrary rewards just passing the obstacles and getting to the end was the reward in itself.

As for your RPG argument, it’s ridiculous. Most achievements in GW2 are minigames and have almost nothing to do with RPG elements. In fact, if you would actually take the whole RPG thing seriously, you’d understand that the collections are side objectives that merely try to make the game last longer by jumping through some arbitrary loops and give you an arbitrary reward at the end. Which in fact aren’t uncommon at all in any RPG to be fair. I remember playing many games of blackjack, shooting galleries and reflecting mini games in RPGs just to get some special reward in the end.

Mini Games are as much part of an RPG as their rewards.

The only problem with Adventures that I have is their name to be honest. They should be called Challenges. Like in GW1. If you overcome them, you have really proven yourself to earn the rewards that are tied to them. And the NPCs could be a bit more like : if you prove yourself here I give you this reward/honor or whatever. But that’s just fluff to most.

Daddicus.6128:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

So again, the OP misunderstood — ANet didn’t build in a reward designed for the 10-20% who raid; they tried to fix an issue perceived by everyone and tried to do without redesigning the system from the ground up. It’s an accident, not intentional design.

I think you are dead on with this. But, I also think they don’t realize what they really did.

IMO, it’s easier to understand phrased as “penalizing the most loyal players”. Phrased that way (which is identical, but focuses on the root problem) makes it a lot more clear.

Their attitude runs throughout the game; it’s not just Spirit Shards/XP. They have a cap on all repeatable achievements, for example. They should use diminishing returns, not caps.

I personally prefer capped off repeatable rewards, rather than rewards that run into eternity that gives you just a little bit less every time. It’s like an endless chase into nothingness and an act of futility. I suppose it may hold some entertainment value to some, but to me it’s fairly close to some form of addiction where you need to get useless rewards that scratch your reward itch whenever you do something super trivial.

In fact it’s probably healthier to not leave things run endlessly. When I capped out of masteries and didn’t get more experience I didn’t really care for gaining more XP. Spirit shards can be fairly nice though, but at this point I have so many that I don’t care about those either, to be fair.

Plus really, most loyal players would play the game regardless of gaining trivial rewards that amount to basically nothing. But then again I suppose when talking in generalizing terms you’re bound to leave alot of people out of “everyone” or “most loyal players”.

Ashantara.8731:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

The Asura weren’t around in Prophesies, Factions, Nightfall, but after being chased to the surface in EotN, and then influencing the above-ground population, the result, 250 years later, is what we see now.

Have you watched the original, pre-release trailers from 2009? Like this one, for instance? The original concept for GW2’s Rata Sum looked a lot more like GW1 (i.e., “classic” design) than the current, clean, high-tech look it has. Especially since Asura come from below the surface, their city designs do require a less modern, less clean design, which said original version had.

I don’t see the underground as something that needs to be something less clean or less modern just because it’s underground. That sounds like a very generic and limited view on it. Also that video shows all things that have been used as props for the asura.

If anything, I would expect it to be less clean because of the numerous experiments and accidents of said experiments would cause. But not because of them originally being an underground race.

Orpheal.8263:

sorudo.9054:

the problem is that in GW2 there is no real reason for it to be darker or better yet, if players need a light source to see it becomes really complicated.
if we take a game like skyrim you can have really dark nights, nights so dark that you need to have a torch just to see where you are.
however, in GW2 only a small handful professions can hold a torch and they are used as a weapon, this makes it really difficult for players of other professions to have a light source.

i am all for darker nights but they have to add some other things to balance this out, an auto skill that illuminates the surroundings or a spell that has it’s own skill slot so you don’t get punished just to get a light working.

Use your brain… there is a torch that can be used by everyone >.< Flames of Kryta if it really must be that kind of k.i.s.s. solution that has to be used.

Flames of Kryta isnt available anymore so its not everyone.

I always find that when people say that there’s no excuse they are also including the actual reasons.

Like when you say that ArenaNet was aware that if they made the farm people would farm it this way. Because very obviously they werent aware of it at all. You can argue they should have been more aware though.

Otherwise youre basically saying they were aware and put it in the game like this on purpose and decided to fix this on purpose. And that sounds just silly.

Jahroots.6791:

It’s laughable that they made a dedicated area for farming, yet some players got mad that people were farming it the wrong way so they nerfed a bunch of stuff.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

I wouldn’t ever define that farming method as nice lol.

I guess like this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6hktjf/seems_like_anet_is_doing_something_about_the_afk/

Because some love pitchblack night doesnt mean everyone does. But I must say that in more occassions than not it is really hard to tell the difference between night and day. And when its useful to know because of events being night and day (not verdant brink there it is obvious) i feel often compelled to just wiki it instead of letting the game tell it what time ingame nighttime is.

Also, you can make it alot darker if you turn your Gamma down. It could be a cool feature to automatically turn gamma down when its night ingame. It gets pretty dark if your gamma is low. But that is mostly a workaround.

The chests in watchtower cliffs already function as leather nodes. Randomized leather though.

So what you guys are discussing with the nodes already exists in a fairly hostile area.

Faaris.8013:

FrizzFreston.5290:

So we’re talking about profession discrimination, you provide examples of level requirements, build discrimination and WvW where everyone can walk around freely like I said, and get as much reward as anyone who is in a squad.

Okay.

But do you get full rewards when you just escort a squad? People here say you don’t get the same rewards as someone in the squad. I would agree that classes are discriminated against, I just don’t see it as a big deal because players can have multiple classes and pick from them when they play WvW.

Considering most rewards are from wvw reward tracks and pips. I dont think every person in a squad gets rewards from every single enemy they fight.

And even then its possible to make a party of 5 outcasts. Considering they are more suited to move around such a gank squad could be of some use even.

Faaris.8013:

Before you suggest ignoring what I wrote, maybe read both posts properly. Even OP doesn’t talk about player discrimination or exclusion, the topic is about class discrimination/exclusion. Players are always welcome, some classes aren’t. But that is like someone with a level 30 character who wants to participate in the Triple Trouble event. This player might say they don’t like high level characters and enjoy playing at around level 30 for some more time. Sorry, your level is excluded from this event. You can fix that by levelling up. Just like that players can create classes that fit the thing they want to do in the game.

You can try to join a raid with a Bearbow Ranger, but that is not a good fit for the thing you want to do. You can fix that by having another class that’s better suited for it. Starting your own LFG with that build is not a fix for the problem (especially since you will not get what you want with the group you will get). Hoping that ArenaNet makes your preferred build stronger is also not a viable siolution for you. The only thing I can think of that works definitely and in short order is building a character with a class that can be properly used for the thing you want to do.

Don’t look for external factors to solve your problems if you can fix them yourself. If you like to play Thief in WvW more than you like rewards, go for it. If you like rewards more, make your choice. If you choose to play thief, you exclude yourself from the bigger/faster rewards.

So we’re talking about profession discrimination, you provide examples of level requirements, build discrimination and WvW where everyone can walk around freely like I said, and get as much reward as anyone who is in a squad.

Okay.

Ignore what Faaris says, just play what you want to play and follow commanders with whatever profession you want. It’s not that hard.

It’s really only players that try to exclude players, but the game will always allow you to be there. Open world and WvW are free zones to play in, if anyone says you shouldn’t stand or do something in this public environment, ignore ( or block them) and continue as you are. I sure as hell wouldn’t let some WvWers tell me what to do.

You do not get less rewards for playing with a certain profession, it just maybe be harder or different to obtain them. Or be harder to be a part of an instanced group. But that’s about it, you can always make your own group if you really want to be in a squad.

In fact, if there’s any incentive in the game when players start saying “I don’t want Prof XYZ in my squad” is to make my own squad with only those allowed telling people to switch to those professions.

The majority of vocal players are overly sensitive about how the game should be played and forgot how to play the game for fun after years of mindless grinding and boredom of doing the same thing over and over.

Communication is key.

Some people are too clumsy using chat to communicate and instead just do what they usually do or simply kick the behavior they don’t understand rather than communicating about it.

Go full candle, with new legendary torch, wing 4 raid backitem and foefire wraps.

I love and hate these things.
On the one hand it’s looking amazing. On the other you’re just paying for it.

I guess for ArenaNet… creativity comes at a price.

I wouldn’t mind if the reward was upped now there is more risk involved going up the hill.

Moonyeti.3296:

I do get it, it is annoying to have afk-esque farmers around. But lay the blame where it belongs, not at the feet of players playing a way sanctioned by Anet in an area sanctioned for Anet for that purpose.

Just as it’s on Anet that they placed trebuchets to “fix” said behaviour. Not people who complained about it.

I just realised this is also a product of autoloot. Without autoloot you can’t AFk as efficiently because it doesnt go directly into your inventory.

Mavis.1463:

Anet should focus on creating content, fixing bugs, etc. They’ve no reason to directly intervene with the game’s economy.

Players who complain about the farm spots are clueless and almost never have an argument. The farm does not affect anyone and it does not affect the in-game economy in any way.
They’re a very vocal minority. Why Anet decided to listen to them is beyond me.

So… ArenaNet has no reason to directly intervene in the game’s economy, especially not in farmspots which don’t affect the ingame economy?

And the one’s who complain about something that does not affect anyone are a very vocal minority.

I am definitely clueless about this argument. xD