Guild Wars 2

I have almost the same build
Mug instead of venom strength (i like the healing)
Long reach instead of thrill of crime for chasing purpose
Quick venoms instead of improvisation (don’t like RNG)

I use S/P and D/D

But after reading your text, i might try out improvisation .. though don’t you only have 20% chance of it triggering venom recharge?

’Cause charr can be female and thief too ^^

They are stupid yeah, but i get them from random chests, and I don’t like “just” destroying them.. So yeah, I use them when someone annoys me.

Narcarsis.5739:

Use Ogre runes. Rock dog will keep the other player in combat. If you do it properly you can stealth out, reset, and reenter before they get ooc as well. Sneaky sneaky.

A summoned pet keeps you in combat.
At least Pirate runes parrot does. The parrot is overagressive and keeps fighting/keeps you in combat even when you can’t target the enemy anymore…

When I see that happen a few times in a row, I just wait for his next shadow refuge (which means he’ll stay stealthed for a while), put down a stealth trap and start dancing…

I run a 30/0/30/0/10 build with D/D and S/P. The stun is rather an interrupt skill since the stun fix now, using venoms to keep them in the damage of the sword swinging. Primarily use it for the other 3 skills rather than pistolwhip. Pre-fix I used it for “stunlocking” (though the last few swings were dodgeable) and it could work without venoms again post-10dec. Right now without immob venom it’s in a tough spot.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

It will still be possible to perma stealth with D/P post patch.

Another possibility is (just theory crafting) to team up a party of x thieves who alternate with bp and clusterbomb. Has to be more than 2 though cause spamming bp and clusterbomb takes a lot of initiative.

Definitely, the other thief in my guild and myself do this quite a lot, it’s very effective It actually only needs 2 if you’re just stacking the max amount of stealth to attack something, and that’s with no ini regen. Just have to get timings right.

Pretty sure that hiding in a tower with 2 required at least ini-regen. That’s why I thought it had to be more than 2 after patch, cause of the ini-regen shaving. Even if pre-patch you could do it without, nothing says that after you can’t..

But yeah, will still definitely be a tactic.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

It will still be possible to perma stealth with D/P post patch.

Another possibility is (just theory crafting) to team up a party of x thieves who alternate with bp and clusterbomb. Has to be more than 2 though cause spamming bp and clusterbomb takes a lot of initiative.

Dagraan.2854:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

^They are nerfing the stealth mechanic, infusion of shadows only triggers when ENTERING stealth. See the red-tag post on this forum from Jon. So argument invalid…

they’re not nerfing stealth they’re nerfing the perma stealth exploit, so 1 person can’t do it.
if you think by them nerfing the perma stealth and fixing the trait, is nerfing the stealth mechanic itself then you have got to the be worst thief here.
it just means you can’t chain stealth without using one of your precious utilities, and you’ll have to use some skill if you wanna hide from a zerg.

you still have the ability to chain CnD.
really this patch isn’t nerfing thieves its just making them less annoying to everybody.

Wow, I haven’t heard someone complain about chain stealthing for ages rly. If I hear someone complain about “stealth being broken” I assume they are talking about perma stealthing, to which my post earlier was meant for.

^They are nerfing the stealth mechanic, infusion of shadows only triggers when ENTERING stealth. See the red-tag post on this forum from Jon. So argument invalid…

Reduced availability window would be a “buff” rather than a nerf for me lol .. how often I wish I had the gap closer again to snare someone while it’s still on “return”

Google: GW2 ninja nurse
2nd hit
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/NEW-THIEF-BUILD-Time-to-adapt-once-again/first#post3032442

Peow peow.2189:

Bazooka- place both pistols together and shoot your target instantly killing it and blowing it to smithereens.
Initiative cost. : 10

^ still not as op as healing signet .

50% chance it’ll bounce to a next target…

Karolis.4261:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Karolis.4261:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Karolis.4261:

Let me explain you how it works. Shadow refuge+thief+angry zerg that has seen your refuge on top of it = dead thief. And if you are not aware yet, most if not all gw2 attacks dont require target.

He knew that part, read his last line first paragraph: But… I got stomped

Stop picking words. There is no way that he/she was killed by a zerg and then STOMPED. Zerg button mashing is faster then stomp animation.

It’s general that ppl look for the answers that solve the OP’s case.
While in general it’s easier to assume that she got zerg smashed rather than stomped, it doesn’t change the fact that we should find a reason how she got stomped.
Also, in her OP she already showed awareness of AoE being untargetted. She was asking if there were aoe that, after being cast, caused you to be targetted (which the answer to is “no” btw)

Its common sense that you cant be targeted by any means when you are in stealth. And only possible way to be unstealthed in that situation was to leave refuge area in first 4 seconds or someone droped a stealth trap on top of her.

Idd, I agree with you now

Karolis.4261:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Karolis.4261:

Let me explain you how it works. Shadow refuge+thief+angry zerg that has seen your refuge on top of it = dead thief. And if you are not aware yet, most if not all gw2 attacks dont require target.

He knew that part, read his last line first paragraph: But… I got stomped

Stop picking words. There is no way that he/she was killed by a zerg and then STOMPED. Zerg button mashing is faster then stomp animation.

It’s general that ppl look for the answers that solve the OP’s case.
While in general it’s easier to assume that she got zerg smashed rather than stomped, it doesn’t change the fact that we should find a reason how she got stomped.
Also, in her OP she already showed awareness of AoE being untargetted. She was asking if there were aoe that, after being cast, caused you to be targetted (which the answer to is “no” btw)

Karolis.4261:

Let me explain you how it works. Shadow refuge+thief+angry zerg that has seen your refuge on top of it = dead thief. And if you are not aware yet, most if not all gw2 attacks dont require target.

He knew that part, read his last line first paragraph: But… I got stomped

Pennry.9215:

So it’s more of a place where we get to pretend we’re in WvW but not really doing anything? I guess that’s fine if you just like the WvW activities without caring for how well your server does.

That poses another question: What will be the incentive to hold any objective? If it’s a “yes” to WXP and/or achievements (asked above), then this map is bound to end up nothing but a zerg train.

If they implemented the right to have your own guildhall with upgrades and all (in that objective), I’d defend my objective 24/7 and drop school .. O.o … Make it happen!

UrMom.4205:

Neeho.3859:

How will this help matches where there are overpopulated servers vs underpopulated servers? If the matchup is YB/BP/DR, will YB have 3 overflow maps and BP/DR still not able to fill the 4 main wvw maps, much less even ONE edge of the mists map? What good is overflow map #3 if there are no enemies?

How is this helping the #1 problem with wvw, population imbalance?

Why was so much effort put into this when commander tags are still broken, skill lag is a persistent problem, and the various other problems that have been around since game release that are killing the game and nothing is being done about?

^ +1, fix the current issues, don’t try to cover them up with new content.

It’s an overflow server, so every server (not only the tier you’re playing in) is pooled in it ‘till it’s full. I suppose ppl from 1 server are primarily placed on one side but the server can be divided over multiple overflows and teamed up with other servers. At least that’s what I understood about it. I read something about it being more intended for guilds to compete instead of servers.

Was just adding my two cents. It’d be essentially 4 stunbreakers more for thieves
Also you forgot shadowtrap: Shadowtrap (untripped version) also stunbreaks with a casting time. Not saying that it’s a great utility (was better without casting time) but it still does it and have some perks when you have no other options. The tripped version is still a good stunbreaker

Residual venoms stunbreaking should have an ICD. Otherwise you’d have 4 stunbreakers all on 36s cooldown when traited. It’d be too much.

Switch.4892:

Non-stealth builds can work really well most of the time except when up against a stealth thief. The best you can do is make them run away but you wont ever kill them. Most of them wont leave you alone till they kill you (I guess they’re trying to prove some kind of a point or something) and disappear as soon as you start damaging them.

And if you do for some freak reason do happen to kill them, they’ll party you and rage about how you cheated and want a rematch.

Use Devourer’s venom and basilisk with residual venoms: Make them waste their shadowstep with basilisk (which isn’t your real elite in this setup). Hit them a few times to drop their health a bit and have them use shadow return. Use devourer’s venom on them and enjoy a thief that’s stuck for 7seconds (even when stealthing, try to use cover up conditions with another venom or w/e in case they use shadow refuge with condi clear on stealth)

Burnfall.9573:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Burnfall.9573:

Galandil.9641:

Burnfall.9573:

It is allowed since Guild Wars 2 release and Arena.net honors it.

To answer your second question, yes, only thief class can cheat but don’t call them cheater though, cause they will deny it to the end; yes! even to the end to your sudden deaths.

You’re the guy who stated in another thread that thieves can backstab for 12-27k. Why should we ever, even for a tiny amount of time equal to the decaying time of a bottom quark, take you seriously?

“bottom quark” you say?

Do you read anything? because if you did, you also should’ve known that Name Callings and Insults are against The Rules

(I will not report you so next time, restrict yourself from doing so)

And I’m Serious!!

Are you a troll or something? Quark is a particle that contistutes matter (proton, neuron). Bottom quark is a form of it. And it’s decay (time ’till half of the particles are changed into another form) is very very very low (10^-12s according to wiki).

I admit; i missunderstood you.

Also, why use a scientific terminology word in the first place?

I wasn’t the person who said it though, so just mentioning

Burnfall.9573:

Galandil.9641:

Burnfall.9573:

It is allowed since Guild Wars 2 release and Arena.net honors it.

To answer your second question, yes, only thief class can cheat but don’t call them cheater though, cause they will deny it to the end; yes! even to the end to your sudden deaths.

You’re the guy who stated in another thread that thieves can backstab for 12-27k. Why should we ever, even for a tiny amount of time equal to the decaying time of a bottom quark, take you seriously?

“bottom quark” you say?

Do you read anything? because if you did, you also should’ve known that Name Callings and Insults are against The Rules

(I will not report you so next time, restrict yourself from doing so)

And I’m Serious!!

Are you a troll or something? Quark is a particle that contistutes matter (proton, neuron). Bottom quark is a form of it. And it’s decay (time ’till half of the particles are changed into another form) is very very very low (10^-12s according to wiki).

Since when is HS spam and auto spam a “competitive” build?

Eodwen.2613:

I would be happy if they made one of our venoms into burn of some sort with the limit on duration stacking its not that OP even with venomous aura imo. Maybe that would make venom s more viable in non venom sharing builds who knows i for one would try it.

Fire drake venom instead of ice drake venom. Ice drake right now isn’t worth being used compared to devourer’s (since the stacking patch). At least that’s what I’d suggest. Make the burning only last briefly (so stacking it won’t become op in venom sharing) and add extra damage to it or something (so it also works in solo venom).

Nothing scares me, but a lot of builds/classes are challenging for me (in good hands). I love a good fight and to learn to beat a class.
The only thing that scares me during a duel, is being interrupted by any side before a clear victorer was been set.

What walker said really.
1) play them and get to know the telegraph of their skills
2) duel and duel and duel, while learning the telegraphing is harder this way (it all happens so fast if it’s a serious duel and not training) you learn to recognize patterns. Even before a skill is being used you’ll pre-emptive dodge or disrupt it. It won’t always work (or even be wasted) but more than not it’ll save your life. Like disrupting a healing skill, if you were to wait before you see him using it, you’ll probably be too late with whatever interrupt you have. If you pre-emptive used it, you’ll probably just ruined his day.

VomitSpit.6843:

“Spam 22222222 some more”

I use S/D…

Maybe they mistyped 3

Zacchary.6183:

Post stupid stuff here pls

Aww, my topic gets love in this forum

Sry mate, but I have to agree with some of the posters here for serious tournaments.
P/P has potential in some builds (even though some ppl would deny this, it worked for me pre-stun patch cause it synergied well with my build)
So does venom share (heck i’m using it myself now but more for wvw than pvp).

But IMO P/P with venomshare is not going to work well after 1 initial fight. P/P lacks ability to kite, and using 2/3 venom further pushes you into a “sitting duck” position. The first fight you might surprise someone (which obviously is a good tactic, use methods unorthodox to take someone by surprise) but those tactics only work once per player (which would make this build better suited for wvw, where surprising ppl is a lot easier than in pvp).

Just my experience with these things at least. I played P/P before, I’m testing venom share right now with 30/0/30/0/10. I use the same utilities beside ice drake veno. Devourer’s venom when traited gives almost 7s immob per ally. Only 10s per victim (stack maximum)
I changed shadowstep to shadowrefuge in favour of protecting party members while buffing with venoms.

I switched out shadow trap too after using it a few days. It just doesn’t work with my playing style anymore… Might consider using it again in the future but for now I’ll be testing other unpopular traits

^Sry, I don’t read all posts before posting, it’ll take ages on topics with 5 pages. And yeah I noticed it didn’t stack a few hours ago. Venom share + residual venom however, when playing in team can make it lasts for ages.

Ye, but I just took /D off hand for the cloak and dagger, not for FS/LS combo. Although I’ve been thinking today at uni. LS unblockable part would work nice with the venoms since they are wasted on a blocked attack. Precast FS and attack with LS. You lack a gap closer with mug though (counts as attack and hits the enemy if you do a precast LS with steal)

crouze.3078:

I am testing the following at the moment: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlYmiO3aS0E/5EB3jiC1n6pgsjVTBNtJA-ToAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKYWC

It is not strong for 1v1 fights and needs to team with a good damage class like warrior.

Using s/p mainly for control: Infiltrators strike for gap closing and condition remove, headshot for interrupts and black powder for the blind.

Rarely using pistol whip for an increased damage spike because the damage is not that much higher then the auto attacks and the auto attacks cripple the enemy. The evasion is handy when you have to jump into a teamfight to burst a target down.

Using basilisk venom and devourer venom to prevent the enemy’s movement and the spider venom for some extra damage / life leech and heal reduction.

Using steal for some extra damage / heal when needed but mostly when the target has some buffs that rly should be removed / stolen.

No stealth, no extra health and only a few condition removals are tha bad things about the build.

So using shadow step correctly is very important to get out of danger and for removing conditions.

We seem to both had about the same idea. I theory crafted that a shared immob venom would compensate the loss of pistolwhip’s stun. However not long after I tried it out I changed my S/P back to a S/D. With 30 in shadow arts it seems silly running a non-stealth build…I also went for residual venoms so siphon venom would trigger more (and even exponentially with shared venom)

Residual venom makes it a 3s stun though and venom share makes it a lot longer though.

^

Destroy shadow trap: Just tested this thing out. You stunbreak on use. The enemy now actually has 1.5 seconds to stun you a second time. Not sure if I like it this way, but we’ll see.

And doggie/excalibur, I trained all the thieves in my guild and alliance guilds to use S/P and shadowtrap …

Thank you (123456789)

ensoriki.5789:

All good and well, but i’m just asking if PW got intrinsically nerfed or not, and if so, where are the patch notes?

No, it’s not.
Only one of the two builds dDuff posted was using SoP. And there are variants out there (not posted on forum afaik) that don’t use it either.

Ah, seriously? You guys were crying about sigil of paralyzation? It isn’t really needed so no, S/P thieves aren’t screwed.
(I’ve been playing S/P for a half year already without using that sigil, it rly isn’t that important.)

You scared me that the intrinsic stun got nerfed… Which idd would ruin my build.

ensoriki.5789:

Puru.4217:

Do not forget 1/4s daze fo heashot instead of 1s.

Im fine with it though because headshots role is as an interrupt. It’s a nerf but it’s acceptable given the purpose headshot is supposed to fulfill.
Nerfing the stun on pistol whip however reduces its ability to do actual damage.

Where is it stated that those two got nerfed btw? Can’t find any references to it besides you guys.

Basilisk venom: For those who think this is a nerf, it is not. Stunbreakers already broke the “stun part” of basilisk but it didn’t remove the petrified look. So the enemy continues fighting you, but for both sides his character is frozen in that particular stance (which is actually worse for you cause you don’t see the enemy’s skill movement)

Destroy shadow trap: Just tested this thing out. You stunbreak on use. The enemy now actually has 1.5 seconds to stun you a second time. Not sure if I like it this way, but we’ll see.

Svarty.8019:

How it should be: The more you have, the less extra you get.
e.g. The more you own, the shorter timer on your siege.

How it is: The more you have, the more you get.
e.g. Waypoints.

Which is how real life war works too though (except for supply). The way I see it there are 2 ways to disapprove zerging just like in real war
1) The more ppl, the more supply you’ll need to survive the war. Right now supply is only needed for building siege but in rl it’s needed to survive too (rations).
2) Bloody friendly fire kitten it. The bigger the army, the more friendly fire would happen

Since both aren’t achievable, i’ll just continue dreaming.

Sanduskel.1850:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Fast Asleep.8475:

i have yet to see a d/p thief that can keep anyone from capping an empty camp.

You’ll have to encounter the non to low-stealth D/P builds for that. They aren’t that popular but they exist. A big chance they’d run a second set though since D/P isn’t that well against a condi spec without using stealth.

Then again, low stealth takes some skill, unlike the noob permastealth training wheels.

And what does that has to do with my post?

What’s the point of pvp ranks if ppl just farm skyhammer all day long? Ranks mean nothing.

Fast Asleep.8475:

i have yet to see a d/p thief that can keep anyone from capping an empty camp.

You’ll have to encounter the non to low-stealth D/P builds for that. They aren’t that popular but they exist. A big chance they’d run a second set though since D/P isn’t that well against a condi spec without using stealth.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sanduskel.1850:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sanduskel.1850:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sanduskel.1850:

Niim.9260:

D/P thief is a crutch build, it is what you play when you like to PvP with training wheels. I typically just laugh at them and move on.

Yep, scrub build for scrubs relying on an exploit of stealth mechanics to perma stealth.

A player “exploiting” mechanics to gain advantage and achieve victory is the very opposite definition of the term scrub. A scrub is someone who makes up their own rules of game play and victory contrary to the actual in game rules/mechanics.

incorrect. a scrub is someone who plays cheesy builds that are easy mode training wheels. anet even admitted that they never intended perma stealth. they just don’t know how to fix it.

That’s not a scrub. What you’re refering to is a “foo strategy”, and they’re good, albiet important for games.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/GS-iBezerker-a-foo-strategy/first#post959455

The Scrub
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

you are welcome to your opinion. most of us disagree.

I suppose if you want to create your own definition of the term you’re welcome to it. But seeing as Sirlin coined the term, and introduced it to the gaming world, I think I’ll just stick with his definition within the larger discussion/thesis which is “Playing to win”..

Sanduskel, you’re in your right to have your own opinion on whether permastealth is low skill or not (though not everyone will agree, that’s what an opinion is after all). But ross bidle is right that you are misusing the term “scrub”. Just change the word to, I don’t know, noob/amateur/whatever and the problem is solved.

Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup
Cause I hate conditions

S/P and P/P thief here, with 10/0/0/30/30
Shadow trap between their starting location and me for their initial stealth
I stealth right behind them when they cross it while in stealth and daze them. After that most of my attacks rely on positioning pistol whip. When they use black powder I dodge it and immediately follow with pistol whip. The stun part interrupts heartseeker, which negates the stealthing effect. In case ini is up I’d use scorpion wire (yes, I use scorpion wire, shocking). SW also works when they try to flee.

Only problem is when they use shadow refuge which I can only interrupt with a necro-stolen fear or when I fought him before and know when he’s going to do that. If I know what is coming I’d switch to P/P and use unload. This mostly would be enough (on their low health) to get them down. I can confirm this if the bullets from unload keeps hitting one spot instead of moving around. Sword still on cooldown forms a problem to kill him in the stealthed SR spot, if there is a critter nearby i can use him to target unload in a straight line so I can still hit him.

If I didn’t time the unload right to hit him in shadow refuge there are two options. Either 1, he has pride and keeps fighting him (which is why i’d mostly use my own stealth (healing) and back off or 2 he runs … in which case I’d just continue with w/e I was doing.

PS: this build is primarily a team based build that relies on boon sharing. So while I have tactics in beating ppl 1v1, the build works better in small group fights.

Blur on dodge doesn’t work here on my charr (never did). I never realized it supposed to do something ’till I read on wiki that thieves had a special dodge animation. So I created a second thief (human) to check it out.
Blur on evade skills do work though.