Guild Wars 2

bloodymarx.9052:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Been using [Scorpion Wire] for a few weeks and I’m getting much better in making it work besides condi clearing. Just don’t expect it to pull him to you. Use it as a condi clear first, a low cooldown interrupt second, and if it pulls, lucky you.

That’s a good idea.

Let me put it another way though: a skill is useful for an effect that was originally not intended (the condi clearing), and useful for what was originally intended as a side effect (the interrupt), but not at all useful for its original purpose.

Yeah, I think that’s another tell-tale sign of the class needing some dev attention.

Or to be sarcastic: scorpion wire is too RNG, time to remove it!

I’m not saying it’s a good skill on it’s own, it’s terrible. But as a cheap condi clear when running withdraw/trickery, well it works for me during stronghold/conquest. It seems most people don’t know its telegraphed animation as well (obv because no one ever uses it) when using in cqb so they don’t even bother dodging it.

I think he means they are making different version of the thief on shiro instead of fixing the thief’s overnerfed utilities.

Valvador.4291:

What do you guys do for Condition clearing without SA?

I’m one of the few people running scorpion wire/trickery to clear condi’s as well. You don’t need scorpion wire to hit anything for it to cleanse a condi. As long as it fires away (so you have to face them for it to work).

Been using it for a few weeks and I’m getting much better in making it work besides condi clearing. Just don’t expect it to pull him to you. Use it as a condi clear first, a low cooldown interrupt second, and if it pulls, lucky you.

S/P pistolwhip whoever is trying to revive him. Get 2 for 1

Used it while playing competitively with my team prior to many of the nerfs. You could easily teleport from Close to Far if your ally targets an opponent on the point you aren’t. “Sword #2, shadowstep, infiltrator’s signet and steal”

Might seem a bit of waste to use so many skills just for movement. But remember that it was prior to nerfs so it was basically a teleport from close to far in less than 2 seconds and creates a 2v1 fight with a gank gc thief. With stability rip on steal and S/P you would be able to stun him before he even noticed a new player. This hopefully created a window for your ally and you to finish him before your shadow returns are gone so you can move back to the first point halfway with them.

Most of the time we would have Close and far while our double bunker team would sit on mid keeping it contested. But that’s a long time ago now when AoE spam wouldn’t instantly kill me.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You forgot the Choking Gas now causes Reveal on impact.

Just after that patch, the damage was a buff in my build since no one ever dodges choking gas. It was basically a free venom application (devourer’s on my build, so free immobilize). People might be a bit smarter now though, haven’t played in a while.

I’m not playing with any leap skills, but I did notice warrior last night who missed every single attack on me due to this .. I thought he was just playing without targetting me.

Esplen.3940:

Dang, I just tested Shadow Protector. Yeah it doesn’t work with that. It’s the only stealth trait I have. I’m not sure what you mean by your statement, Justine? Are you asking to see if dropping Snow Leopard will maintain Prowl (it only lasts ~5 seconds, anyways)?

EDIT: If you meant to ask:
Does Prowl persist after leaving Snow Leopard form?
The answer is yes.
You can stealth ontop of it, but it doesn’t stack duration and leaves you with the Decoy/multiple stealth visual bug where you look normal even though you are still stealthed.

Note that this visual bug is only going to be on your client, so in WvW or PvE, you will still be stealthed.

I did not test to see if Prowl gives Revealed.

He was asking if you can use your stealth attack (backstab, tactical strike, …) after leaving the form.

He probably only read the OP’s question (title) and then proceed to read the reactions. Only way I can figure out why he’d say: “last refuge =/= blinding powder” and “last refuge uses blinding powder”

While running revealed training on a low-stealth build, sic’em and the goggle utility are just too great to be true. 6 seconds of +200 power, yay!

^Sundering strikes is actually an awesome trait. Even with low crit chance you can easily maintain 3-5 stacks, which means 3-5% extra damage for the whole team.

Cam Ron.4170:

Kolly.9872:

Renegade.6240:

I read the recent topics and I see that almost everyone thinks S/D and D/D is dead, P/P is already a joke, P/D is only useful against melees in 1v1 situations, that only leaves D/P which I don’t know much about, fail much, and think its not very reliable too
Woah forgot the S/P, may be good in PvE but don’t even worth trying in WvW and sPvP

I think I’m playing a different game then, since I can play S\P effectively in PvP and WvW
D\P and P\D are as strong as before
D\D only needs some little fix for being in par with the other 2 sets
P\P is still the same useless weapon set, definitely need some changes
The only part of this patch I realy don’t get is the change to FS\LS: people were crying on perma dodge and A-Net decided to buff it and to nerf the damage.
and P\P

S/P, while it can be effective in PvP, isn’t that good, or I just suck.

d/d is fine in WvW, but there is ZERO reason to EVER use it in PvP due to D/P.

agree about p/d in and d/p in WvW, both great. P/d aint good in pvp though.

for s/d- please do not try to twist this into some sort off half buff, half nerf thing. It is objectively a way weaker set.

tl;dr to answer OP: For WvW you got a lot of options. for PvP, learn D/P

I used S/P in PvP for months already (prior to any buffs it got). Is great when playing with a team and not just pugs. Because most of the thieves don’t like using it in PvP, it’s less known and less easy to be countered.

I used D/D a while as my second set to S/P with sigil of hydromancy and sigil of intelligence. Wear them down to 50% and switch weapons. The chill will cause them to stay in range, c&d-backstab. All 3 will be critted and even bunkers will be near death by this short combo. As a solo-set it’s not worth it though. Only reason I took D/D as second set above D/P is because BP-HS combo at the end of a fight requires too much initiative (which isn’t easy to maintain with a S/P build)

Bow of truth heals quite nicely on a bunker build.

Imagi.4561:

Phaeton.9582:

So you’ve no problem with a block not breaking stealth, but it should trigger an on hit effect now…? XD

Where did the OP even bring this up?

If you have an issue with block not causing Reveal, discuss it in a thread dedicated to that topic.

Those two are actually tied together. If touching a block counts as a hit, it means that a stealth attack on a block counts as a hit, and would give reveal… You can’t have one without the other.

CobOfCorn.6352:

What exactly is ‘The Ripper’?

Harpoon gun stealth attack

For those who don’t know where to find the previews, they are in your wardrobe.

holodoc.5748:

Imho Deep freeze isn’t that much of a problem, its similar to thief venom. What I am more concerned about is Ice storm which allows two players to literally obliterate a cap point in a matter of seconds (Ice storm covers the whole point and there are two Ice bows per ele).

Actually thief’s venom can be cleared with a stunbreaker. Deep freeze can’t be cleared. After the first few patches, basilisk venom was revamped as a “stun” instead of “petrify” because unbreakable stuns were deemed gamebreaking.
I think OP wants the same for Deep Freeze.

Narcarsis.5739:

The trait isn’t broken. “Bundles” refer to things such as Ice Bow, Fiery Greatsword, Lightning Hammer, etc. It works as intended.

Not really. In the beta, this trait did count stolen skills as bundles cause they actually functioned almost identically to bundles. (The stolen skill replaced your weapon skill bar). So this is just a remnant of the beta’s, and the only way to benefit from the damage bonus now, is by getting bundles from other professions.

So in other words: The trait works, but not as intended originally (and possibly intended now).

Panic Strike:
To me, this is a buff. Most people will clear the immobilize after about 2 seconds (except when they are all blown already, but you’re not going to keep a target from <50% health just to maximize this trait anyway). The shorter cooldown makes it a bit easier to know if your target is going to get immobilized or not.

Venomous Aura:
Definitely a buff for venom sharers. Concept is still the same though, which means venoms still can’t get real buffs, making them more viable as solo utilities.

Double Strike, Wild Strike, Lotus Strike:
Definitely a buff in theory, but not sure what it would give in practice. Would like to hear more about this from other people.

Black Powder:
No more guaranteed finishers on downed enemies. It’s easy enough to clear the blind now and use the anti-finish skill (fear, hammer, pull, whatever). If you have a smart opponent, stability (or sometimes portfinish) will be needed.

Choking Gas:
I liked to throw down this while being stealthed, and still have the ability to immobilize the opponent afterwards with AA(stealth). This patch did nerf this ability. Granted you can still shoot the field in front of the enemy (where he’s heading to) so he isn’t damaged, but it’s harder.

Needle Trap:
Ambush:
Honestly, these changes do not make traps more viable. They are still single target based (it’s hard to hit multiple targets as we all know unless you put it on a clogged up group). They can do better.

Thieves Guild:
Well … guess more devastating (for the target or for the npc himself if reflected)?

Hidden Thief:
Been about time this got fixed

Most things sounds good, even great. Except for last refuge. It won’t solve the problem. Most people tend to complain about how it triggers just when they try to use skills like c&d.

Corax.7381:

Given that it grants Swiftness, it should be called “Charge!”. The reason why I assume “retreat” was chosen was because of Aegis, but really, it makes the most sense to use a +speed and +1 free block skill when running TOWARDS the enemy.

Well if the game was real life, retreating would benefit from having swiftness too. The only reason you don’t feel like it’s useful, is because death in this game isn’t so scary since you just revive on a waypoint, so it makes more sense for us “players” to use it offensively. The story and all the skills however were meant that we’re in that world, without real reviving, otherwise no npc would die. And so escaping death with swiftness and aegis would make sense for the “characters” in the game.

I run thieves guild because I pack enough stuns with S/P anyway. When I engage someone who has to die quick before reinforcements arrive, I’d use shadow refuge a few meters from him (so he can’t fear me out or anything yet) and use thieves guild in it. Your small warband is stealthed and won’t attack unless you attack.

Even if the person is skilled enough to evade your stealth attack, the AI will use scorpionwire in the brief second between dodges, which makes it impossible to evade. The blackpowder they use, is useful if you have a dagger mainhand for a cheap stealth. After that I just make sure that I don’t stand near my own npcs, so any AoE aimed at me won’t kill them, and vice versa.

Rangerdeity.5847:

went back and tested it and it isnt working the way it did back when i ran venom support it used to only pick from skills currently on CD so i switched it out to the reduced RC on venoms which is more reliable even if i cant use them immediately after combat starts i only have about 12 seconds from after the last poison to when i can start the first poison again which is still pretty effective and this way i can keep them rotating more efficiently during long fights

^You just got lucky the first few times. It never guaranteed a recharge on the skills on your utility bar. Been like this since the release. I’ve used it several times cause now and then it’s a nice to fool around with.

MarkusParkus.8467:

Evilek.5690:

Charr

^

^

I still prefer this finisher.

It’s chain stealthing though, not perma-stealthing.

selan.8354:

what are u talking about moa has not been changed for over a year. they actually made moa skills decent.and yes u can run away.im glad if someone moas me when i try to run cause then i have finally some speed boost on my mesmer. and one more thing moa doent cripple chill u. u must have gotten hit by more than 1 players then seriously.

Moa #5 was nerfed somewhere between release and now because you could escape any fights with it. I remember being thankful for mesmers turning me into a moa when I was trying to flee. Now the #5 range is nerfed making it easier for people to kill you and not make the skill a waste.

Can someone tell me why he’s always using a template in every single post?

On topic: Agreed.

oZii.2864:

Cygnus.6903:

I feel they are over the top. It is not that everybody has access to them that makes them balanced, but rather not every class can utilize them well that makes it a bit unbalanced.

I for one expect the nerf before conditions are getting a real one.

Yet this thread claims EVERYONE is using them. You have a team you get might from your team and you may have blast finisher but no fire fields. It all works out.

You don’t need any help from a team. Get sigil of strength and 45%+ crit chance. There you go, perma might and rune-buff. I could maintain about 5 might of stacks easily. Having a skill/utility that grants you might briefly helps for the first attack since it’s 2-3 swings before you have a might stack.

(PS: I’m not against the rune but the nerf wouldn’t bother me either since I’m using different runes now.)

oZii.2864:

Cygnus.6903:

I feel they are over the top. It is not that everybody has access to them that makes them balanced, but rather not every class can utilize them well that makes it a bit unbalanced.

I for one expect the nerf before conditions are getting a real one.

Yet this thread claims EVERYONE is using them. You have a team you get might from your team and you may have blast finisher but no fire fields. It all works out.

You don’t need any help from a team. Get sigil of strength and 45%+ crit chance. There you go, perma might and rune-buff. I could maintain about 5 might of stacks easily. Having a skill/utility that grants you might briefly helps for the first attack since it’s 2-3 swings before you have a might stack.

(PS: I’m not against the rune but the nerf wouldn’t bother me either since I’m using different runes now.)

Idm the set, but I already started looking for other less known rune sets. Just in case that rune gets nerfed I have a back up plan

I don’t like it on S/P because quickened pistolwhip means shorter evade frame and netto more initiative use for the same defense. Of course you have a better offense but since it’s also rather random with the proc chance and ICD, it’s hard to really predict if it’s going to trigger when you’re going defensive or offensive.

Ryttlock invited Logan to his warband somewhere in one of the books. Just before the edge of destiny got broken due to certain issues (not spoiling the book or game story for those who haven’t done either yet). This is because in Rytlock’s eyes, Logan was a worthy opponent but more importantly, someone he trusted his life with and would feel safe with him as his rear-guard.

So yes it is done now and then but I think that the act will cause a lot of commotion. To invite someone to your warband, you have to be the legionnaire. Legionnaire’s position can be claimed by anyone lower ranked by just defeating him in a fight. So if anyone in the warband dislikes having non-charrs in the warband, it might cause a small rebellion.

Centurions and higher ranked often don’t care what happens in a warband, as long as capable Charr that are worth something don’t get killed or if they still have enough members in the warband to function well.

S/P primary set means less escaping abilities, final. Roaming in team is more preferred (especially since your stuns will make the enemy more susceptible to other people attacking, so in small skirmishes PW also helps a team in focusing targets). If you do want to roam alone, I’d suggest:

Infiltrator’s signet instead of blinding powder and you’ll have a better opening attack (PW combo) or escape tactic with all the critters in wvw. Just be aware of where you can use the signet to get out of combat. I don’t run shortbow on secondary but D/D. Heartseeker travel without SoS is slightly less than shortbow’s IA but you can stealth yourself (which compensates the loss of blinding powder in your case). I use it mostly for fighting though, it’s part of my burst so personal preferences.

I use withdraw as healing to remove criple/chilled/immob while also handy for gaining extra distance. When you’ve gained enough distance you can use shadow refuge.

What I’ve also tried a few times is using shadowtrap instead of shadowrefuge. Put it down somewhere before meeting danger (make sure it’s in a straight line of you, practice will teach you when it’ll be blocked or not) or use it after creating some distance. If they keep on chasing you, they’ll trigger it. Wait for another 4-5 seconds before using it and run the other way (and find some line of sight blocker to hide from them). With S/P you can put down a point-blank #2 for the shadow return, in case they find you to create more confusion.

A valid tactic could also be: Find a wall, turn your back to it and use black powder.
Either they’ll have to re-stealth or do a frontstab there. I wouldn’t recommend it over a well timed pw or dodge but sometimes you have to use your environment to your advantage.

Been like this pre-patch already. Might duration is the only buff this rune got. Bird didn’t get buffed (It could survive 4 ppl hitting him while I made my escape for about 10 seconds around february since I last used them). I suggest you stock up on them if you think they’ll get popular cause right now it’s just 1 silver per rune.

In that case I understand, how they said with power/condi it sounded more about stats than about weapon skill sets.

Edit: Misunderstood

We had 4 player d/c from a tournie once (3 from 1 team, 1 from my team). So this would be “their problem” and they aren’t able to play for a few days while it’s obviously a server problem?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Bombsaway.7198:

It isn’t unbalanced given it is a short stealth. Rangers (I main one with my engineer and the thief is my third toon) has any number of ways to counter a thief in general especially with such high evades.

In fact, as a thief I really hate playing against rangers and engineers.

I would more agree if you limited it TO pets and avoided things like walls or turrets.
That seems odd to say the least.

Unless you’re fighting a regen ranger, running full glass, or are just bad, you should NEVER have problems with a Ranger as a thief, EVER.

Not a PvP player then? Rangers can be quite annoying for thieves when trying to play competitively.

Blackpowder: Put a blinding field on your position and shoot a projectile finisher to the enemy.

Blinding field stays for 4 sec while the projectile finisher will hit 1 target at max 900 range who will be blinded. I don’t really get the question? The projectile finisher on it’s own won’t be blinding but since the skill is automatically combo’d with the blinding field it does blind. So you have a blind on your position for 4 sec and a blinding projectile that hits an opponent on distance + do damage.

It’s always been on sigil of air already… Same for the gunk bundle azure.

30% more stun is but .15s more. This is barely anything and not enough to get that final hit in.

Extra things you can do to ensure the full dmg are (more examples can be created, i’m just quickly saying what I can remember): Use chill before (sigil of hydromancy, stolen ele’s skill), have a long enough immob through devourer’s (own or shared use), having someone CC him during the whipping or double S/P him (with a pal).

Pushing the enemy to a corner and having their dodges been used up also works since they have to walk through you which usually ends with all the dmg hitting. Attacking ppl with endurance in general is able to get you a lot damage through. Cause ppl tend to back away from a pw when recovered from stun. If you place yourself close enough to them, all swings will connect before they are out of sword range. More experience people will know how to walk out of it but chaos of the battle works well in a thief’s advantage.

mango.9267:

apocom.3172:

mango.9267:

So it seems this would only really benefit s/d and p/d. But taking it means you can’t take 30 in Shadow Arts and Trickery in WvW, and you can’t take 30 in Critical Strikes and Trickery in PvP. I’d prefer 30 in any of those trait lines than 30 in Deadly Arts — the 200 power just isn’t worth it.

Why cant you take 6 SA and & Trickery in WvW? And why can’t you take 6CS and 6 Trickery in PvP?

6 Points DA with RT outdamage 6 Points CS with Executioner while the health of the enemy is over 50%.

There aren’t enough points to take 6 DA, 6 SA, and 6 Trickery. I’d prefer 6 SA and 6 Trickery in WvW if I were playing p/d or s/d. Similarly, I’d prefer 6 CS and 6 Trickery in PvP because Revealed Training relies on being revealed. It won’t affect most backstabs, it won’t affect pistol whips, and it doesn’t boon strip/daze/grant aoe fury/might/swiftness.

It affects pistolwhip if you use stealth with a different set or utilities though. I tried it a few times (don’t really like it, but used a few tactics to utilize it). D/D first set to get stealth or shadowrefuge for stealth.

Ps: Yes I ’m one of the few people how actually use SR offensively just for a stealth gain when out of initiatives and in need for a backstab or surprise attack.

Soldatoscelto.6753:

See the picture.. yes is like before the patch the dmg in pvp.. is not a problem uf runes.. 14k in one hit against deal to a berserker thief from an engi with 1 SKILL (rifle 5 skill) i never see it, max 6k if you are full berserker engi not 14k…… (and she as 17k of life so it is istantkill) they have put ferocity for have critical damage more weak and then they increase all the damage? for me is a bug..

This is a Hotm npc… We tried to copy their damage but it’s impossible. The engineer there did in a row: 5k, 9k and 11k dmg to our tester (which we kept on healing). We tried to make the most zergy engineer to push that damage to him, he only got 4k maximum.

So your comparison is wrong lad.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i heard that those items do not give additional armor for sPvP so it is purely for aesthetics purposes.

This is correct, somewhere in this forum, an arenanet member said that.

Or just buy them from trading post. Few coppers and you have it.

Steve Whitley.8359:

(unless you have some other finisher equipped) when you finish someone..

I’m using rabbit finisher again (while having tiger, almost bear) just to make people think they got killed by someone below r10

You have to use the 3 crits in the 9s, it’ll go away afterwards. I’ve been using the sigil the entire day already. It doesn’t feel clunky at all for me. I mostly use up the crits before the battle is over. Also, blinds/blocks/dodges uses up crit charges.

Traxal.2745:

…

Basically what I came up with for pvp as well (the sigils and runes). They work VERY well in combination. Got sigil of intelligence on my second setup (with sigil of hydromancy). The might stack will still be on it ’till I can re-swap to the first setup with might stacking. I got up to 15 might stack with sigil power buff.