Guild Wars 2

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

I thought you could get masteries by doing anything that granted exp? If im wrong I apologise and please correct me.

Exp from anything in the expac jungle yes. So basically I’m stuck running around killing random mobs while running from event to event, and watching my exp bar move ever so slooowly.

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

Sure, many people (including me) were initially drawn to GW2 because it marketed itself as being “not another grindy” game. Yes there was some grind involved …notably legendaries… but that didn’t really affect the vast majority of the player base since such gear is merely optional. But now ?

LOL.

Its not exactly grind though as you only have to complete each hero point once. Grind is doing the same content over and over to progress. You just have to do the content on the new maps once time per character, which you would probably be doing anyway right? Otherwise why buy the exp.

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

Xytl.8659:

I’m not sure really why anyone expected to have all of this stuff done after playing for one day. Heart of Thorns is an expansion, it’s not supposed to be over with quickly. Consider that you may have gotten half of an elite specialization done yesterday. So now you need to work on some masteries, it might take you a week to get done with one class. That seems like a long time, but keep in mind that now since you’ve done masteries you can just fly to the hero points, channel them, and move on. .

Have you been following the expansion at all ???

I am specifically talking about the complaints of hero challenges being turned into Champion bosses where you need a party to beat.

ANET’s decision will be based purely on how much the fiasco affects their bank account. No doubt they won’t be rushing to a decision now but will give it a few days to see how it plays out. But say… if at the end of the week a much lower number of players than they anticipated will have fully unlocked at least one elite spec… changes will be made, and there isn’t a thing you’re going to be able to a do about it.

Oh and one other thing, if you think the casual players who may not be able to play the game more than a few hours a week are the “minority” of the player base, you’re out of your mind.

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

Sure, many people (including me) were initially drawn to GW2 because it marketed itself as being “not another grindy” game. Yes there was some grind involved …notably legendaries… but that didn’t really affect the vast majority of the player base since such gear is merely optional. But now ?

LOL.

Wing.5487:

We killed the Vampire Beast Broodmother from 4th try, required ACTUAL thinking and teamwork, thanks for making the game very much enjoyable and not a dps fest, its a simple boss but still, heres the screenshoot attached of people ENJOYING the small win..

You know that sounded like quite an enjoyable fight and I am happy you had fun. But then I can’t help thinking to myself… all that difficulty built into acquiring one single hero point ???

So what happens when the map eventually quiets down a few months from now and some newbie comes along and meets that particular hero challenge ?

Does he have to go to the LFG tool and ask for a party to acquire said hero point ?

Sad game design is sad.

MattyP.6954:

Divinity.3641:

My friend bought the HOT several days ago according to my recommendation and he decide to quit this game already. We tried to unlock the elite specialization by collecting hero points on new map and failed. The two hours we spent only gave us 3 hero points and 20+ times of death. The jumping puzzle like map is trash, so don’t force ppl to play it!

It should be difficult. They’re called “Elite” Specializations… they should take a certain level of skill. If you are not good enough to unlock the content, then you shouldn’t get to unlock the content.

Also, if he quit the game because he couldn’t unlock “Elite” content mere days after starting the game, then that is really, really sad. Sad as in “Pathetic”

You know you guys LOVE to mock the casuals, but the irony is that if enough of them start quitting over this hero point fiasco, ANET will bend over backwards to get them to stay, INCLUDING changing the HP requirements. And if the hardcores in turn complain ?

Well ANET will have no problems telling you to Kitten off…

binidj.5734:

To everyone defending ANets ridiculous decision and telling the rest of us that we want to have everything on a plate and if this were any other game we’d have to grind ten more levels:

We would be ECSTATIC if all we had to do was play for ten levels, or even twenty, in fact pretty much any amount of levels. If we needed to gain levels to unlock eSpecs that would be the best thing ever (even if tomes didn’t count) because we could just play the game as you so sanctimoniously keep telling us.

I defy you to find one person on this thread who wouldn’t be happy to exchange levels for hero points. Just one. Go ahead.

You are wasting your time. Some White Knight is gonna just jump in here and say… Me ! :-)

Loki.4139:

400 Hero Points to unlock Elite Spec? Why?
You already screwed me over having 4k+ Skill Points then you turn them into like 200 Hero Points and now i need 400 of them to play the game i bought for WvW purpose ONLY. Lower that kitten. I’m not here to grind , I’m here to play. If i wanted to play Archeage I would go play that crap.

What would be the fastest way to get hero Points?

Fastest way to get points ?

LOL… have no idea. The release notes state they nerfed the experience (by 25%) you gain from karma training in EotM so it will now take much longer going that route as well.

Oenanthe.6549:

Like many others one of the things I wanted in HoT is the extra weapon choices, particularly for me the staff Ranger and Longbow Guardian, however none of my level 80s really want to go for the change in weapons, they were made for a specific build and want to stay there. I was planning on making two new toons for the rolls but i’m not sure I want to play them all the way up in one build just to change it later.

By my calculations is should be possible to use all those scrolls and leveling tombs to get straight to 80 and that should get me enough Hero Points to unlock the elite trait, even though i will obviously be short on skills. I could then wander around with my weapon of choice and build from there.

According to the Wiki, leveling to 80 nets 398 Hero Points, each of the five normal trait lines cost 60 points and then to unlock (not master) the elite is another 60, totaling 360 points, giving me 38 left over for skills. I haven’t seen it mentioned that you have to have all skills maxed out to get the elite trait line.

Before I go and use all my leveling aids, can any one confirm this for me.

It has already been confirmed by ANet that you have to max out all your core traits and skills first before you can apply Hero Points to the Elite specs.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Pezz.4758:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Pezz.4758:

according to a bunch of people on this forum it is.

but eh, i went out and bought a ton of beef jerky, beers, redbulls snacks for prep.
worked out that i can use them to camp for BDO alpha keys instead of playing base engineer for another month.

As you’re off to play BDO can I have your stuff?

ok i made an agry post in the heat of the moment and ill apologize for that
i dont want to give up on the game but i assure you ushering people out who
“dont play within the vision of the game” is not a smooth road.
ive been on it once, it didnt work out well for anyone

I’m not ushering you out. I thought you were leaving. Glad you’re gonna stay. Can I offer a possible alternative to your quandry then? You also get hero points for levelling up in WvW. Why not do a few rounds of EotM with some WvW XP boosters? Dull as hell of course but will allow you play the new content as a Scrapper.

Per the 2015/10/23 release notes, experience from EotM has now been nerfed by 25%.

MangoCrush.7819:

so… I have a rather large excess of WvW ranks.. from reading this it sounds like I can cash those in plus badges for Hero Points… Where?

Nope. Only ranks gained post Expac will give you these new fangled Heroic proofs or whatever they are called. The badges you have stockpiled though can be cashed in as you said.

LOL… I haven’t played the expansion yet, but reading some of the reviews in the main HOT thread, it seems like a significant number of the hero challenges in the jungle are locked behind high level Masteries which you will need to level first (read: grind) just to get to them. EOTM is sounding better and better right now. Guess this means you can just about forget running around WvW with 3 or 4 Alts decked out in Elite specs any time soon.

Edit: just read in the release notes that they reduced Experience gained in Edge of the Mists by 25%. Bummer.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Coolster.2536:

So, a lot of people are QQing about needing 400 Hero Points to fully unlock the elite spec.

What I know:

• Each Espec gets 12 new traits (3 minors and 9 majors)
• Each Espec gets 6 new utilities ( 1 heal, 4 utilities, 1 elite)
• Each Espec gets 2 profession specific skins ( 1 armor, 1 weapon)
• Each Espec gets a new rune and sigil

Now I don’t know how many runes and sigils the lines will grant, so for simplicity’s sake, I’ll guess we will get 1 sigil and 1 stack of 6 runes (do you honestly want to unlock the same rune six times?).
So that’s a total of 22 things this elite spec will unlock. And we know it takes ~200 HP to unlock half the elite spec. So that’s 11/22 things. And we also know that the skins, runes, and sigils are last (Who needs those DH gloves). So that means, depending on the order of the Espec, we’ll either get 11/12 traits and no new skills or all 6 skills and half the traits. Neither of those seem bad to me. Take this with a grain of salt or a grain of sugar, I just wanted to put this in perspective for some people. But, then again, people will QQ over anything, so what do I know?

That’s because you’re not looking at the division. The devil is in the details and the details are what have people upset.

Here’s what we know regarding cost
60 hero points just to unlock the Elite Specialization panel (zero trait lines unlocked with those 60 hero points, unlike the core game specializations where 60 hero points will not only unlock but also max trait line). Then you’ll require another ~200 hero points to level the trait lines from 0-max and be able to create a viable Elite Spec build.

LOL… I didn’t read it that way at all. From Colin:

_"It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges."_

The way it read to me is that the first 60 HPs gives you the minor trait that allows you to equip the new weapon and access the class’s new mechanic. Notice Colin says additional points spent will “continue” to unlock more traits, skills, etc. So I certainly don’t see the first 60 pts being used just to “have access” to the new elite spec.

But hey who knows. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Sytherek.7689:

Hexalot.8194:

Dhampyr.2813:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Thought they said that doing world completion would go along way to unlocking all of your elite spec. When did it change to unlocks everything? Ether way I’m glade I get to play the game in a way that lets my character grow, In a way that lets me slowly become a Reaper. I honestly dont want “hay look a jungle” and then “think I’m just going to pick up this great sword now and swing it at things”

Well you’re out of luck. It will literally only take 60 HPs for any Necro to “pick up that Great Sword and start swinging”. Sure, you don’t get all the traits to really make the Great Sword shine right off the bat. But the Great Sword’s 5 skills will still be unlocked for you to have fun with.

I don’t care about shield on my mesmer as I do about new utilities. See, the spec is a package of traits/skills/weap9ns, not just a weapon.

Not denying it. I was just pointing out the myth about needing the entire elite line just to use the new weapons.

Fernling.1729:

I just wanted to experience the new content as the new elite specializations.
I’m already bored of grinding hero points on all my alts and I haven’t even started on the first one yet.
I really hope the first 200 points unlock all traits/skills and the last 200 unlock cosmetics. If they are interweaved together and it will take 400 points to unlock all traits and skills I will be very disappointed.

Then prepare to be disappointed. I’m pretty sure somebody on here already quoted Colin I think as saying 200 HPs will only get you about halfway through the elite trait line alone.

Dhampyr.2813:

Hexalot.8194:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Thought they said that doing world completion would go along way to unlocking all of your elite spec. When did it change to unlocks everything? Ether way I’m glade I get to play the game in a way that lets my character grow, In a way that lets me slowly become a Reaper. I honestly dont want “hay look a jungle” and then “think I’m just going to pick up this great sword now and swing it at things”

Well you’re out of luck. It will literally only take 60 HPs for any Necro to “pick up that Great Sword and start swinging”. Sure, you don’t get all the traits to really make the Great Sword shine right off the bat. But the Great Sword’s 5 skills will still be unlocked for you to have fun with.

Kharr.5746:

I feel like the action camera was a nod to controller support since it would work super well with such a control scheme. It’s one of those features that no one really asked for, but must have taken quite a bit of dev time. It’s not a good business move to simply add a feature no one has asked for without a way to make money off it.

Thus, I’m going to guess console port or controller support as one of the major unveils since playing with a controller will now be a real option when using the action camera.

Playing with controllers may be fun for PVE I guess. But if you bring your controller to PVE/WvW, you’ll get your kitten handed to you by anybody with a keyboard and mouse.

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

Menadena.7482:

Yargesh.4965:

Menadena.7482:

Morfedel.4165:

I am trying to recall a single MMORPG where an expansion handed out everything you expected to get with it up front, rather than making you earn it. I can’t think of a single one, and this sense of entitlement just truly baffles me.

Entitlement?

We were told what to expect. People planned for that and did the work asked of them. Whether you liked it or not we knew the upper boundary.

Then they changed it. Not us.

What? They did not change anything since they have not until now given a number.

They stated world completion was the max. Until the datamine of 170 most people were assuming 100 HPs would be a good number to guess at. When we saw the 170 (which again many did not believe) and the progression for a typical profession I realized I could not get everything right away but about 120 would give me a good starting build.

Can you source that? Because i don’t think they said that, I think assumptions were made. That being the case, if they DID change that, because I won’t swear they didn’t, I have the following thoughts on that:

1. It IS uncool to change the info this late in the game. So if they said different before now, then yeah, I agree it’s uncool.

2. However, sometimes changes have to be made, for whatever reason: health of the game, technical issues, other stuff. It’s highly unlikely they are changing things just to make things a pain in the rear for us.

Wanna know something? I kinda thought we would have our elites unlocked if we had done all the hps in the core world, and I would have preferred it that way, so I could use my elites fully at the very beginning of HoT. That being the case, though, I don’t consider this a bad thing.

My problem is the massive rage we are seeing here. The sheer levels of it is ridiculous. If someone said “I’m not happy with this,” I could understand, but people are just burn-the-building-down angry, and it’s flat out unreasonable.

I do not recall the URL offhand but anet specifically said we could run the new content with elites if we had world completion.

Yes that’s correct. But… that was also around the time they stated you needed an additional 65 HPs to unlock the new core spec system. So basically anybody with World Completion were home free when they eventually release the Elite specs. But when they changed it so that just leveling to 80 would give you enough Hero Points to unlock core traits & utilities with no need for the additional 65 points, the whole “World Completion will unlock everything including elite specs” statement went out the window.

Vayne.8563:

Swagger.1459:

Vayne.8563:

IchbinVol.5407:

We’re just tired of the goal post, constantly moving. “Oh hey, I saved up 100g for that shiny new precursor!” Economy Change! Precursors now 1000g!! “Oh wow, it took awhile, but I finally got that map completion, and all the hero pts!” Screw You, DO MOAR! :’(

Its just disheartening. We were under the impression that veteran players would already have enough pts, if they did map completion. Now, it just feels like a punishment, more than some excuse to play more. As if we wouldn’t play as much… We just want to play the content, in our elite spec.

The goal post NEVER moved. Someone datamined some stuff, and everyone took it as gospel. When did Anet ever change the goal post on this?

In fact, by giving us 10 points for every hero point in HoT, they’ve made it very easy to level up your elite specialization.

They didn’t plant the goal post until now so it comes off as being intentionally shady.

Well that’s great for people who like pve… Buy hey look, you can level up 400 times per character in wvw right?

Always remember vayne, you can always measure success by asking yourself “is it fun?”. For many players this will not be considered a success story filled with “fun”.

They also didn’t tell people until recently that you could get this playing WvW or that the hero points in HoT would give you 10 points each and there’s enough of them to give you your entire spec. That’s pretty generous. 40 hero point challenges in HoT is a lot less than 400 in the open world.

Well there aren’t 400 hero challenges in the open world so not sure what you’re saying here. ;-)

Anyway, we don’t know yet how many of the 40 hero challenges in the jungle are “locked” behind mastery completion (gliding or mushroom jumping to get to certain challenges, etc). So lets not all act like getting to those 40 challenges will be a mere stroll through the jungle, thank you.

Helly.2597:

I’d not so much disappointed at the number of hero points as disappointed in how I am required to unlock so much useless kitten with the normal specs first. Hell if I am never going to use shouts or traps with my druid then I shouldn’t have to waste those hero points.

You’re confused. The last June patch made it that once you hit lvl 80, all the normal core specs and skills were unlocked automatically… and you don’t have to do a single hero point challenge while leveling from 1 to 80 either.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Hexalot.8194:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Thuggernaut.1250:

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

Colin mentioned that it took 60 HPs just to unlock the first minor trait in the elite spec. If it’s spaced out that way, I highly doubt 140 points is going to be enough to unlock the rest of the trait plus utility skills.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be. It currently costs 145 points to unlock 1 spec and one trait line that contains an elite skill. If we apply that 145 points, plus Colin’s statement of 60 points to “start using” the spec, that puts us at 205 points. Which leaves 195 points in which to spread out the new armor piece, weapon skin, rune, etc. Which, if that’s the way it works out, I could live with it. Even if it will be tedious to do on multiple characters.

Still, unless Colin offers us more info (ha ha), all we can do is wait and see.

Oh I could live with that as well. But ANET seems to be making it quite clear that they don’t want anyone unlocking elite specs within the first minute of launch. With what you’re saying, people with World Completion (roughly 215 pts I believe) are going to be doing just that.

If you’re planning to get the majority of your hero points in the new map, it would likely be wise to level your gliding mastery first. That way when you come across that first “unreachable” hero challenge, you won’t be pulling your hair out onto the floor. :-)

Of course if the hero point challenge you come across requires jumping to it from a mushroom instead… well I’ll get the broom.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Thuggernaut.1250:

I thought the original story was that any character with map completion would have enough points to fully unlock the elite spec, no additional hero points required.

First Ascended armor necessary for raids, now this. And the grind for WvWers is even worse. Might as well just PvE. WvW will be dead for a few weeks if this is the case.

Grind Wars 2.

That was before the change that just getting to 80 was enough to unlock all the core skills and traits. The original statement was that characters with map completion would have enough for the core and the elite. The latter likely changed when they former was changed, and it’s probably still mostly true. They’ve said that skills and traits will be unlocked first (function over frill). So you’ll probably actually be able to get all of the skills and traits in the first 200-ish points. We shall see.

Colin mentioned that it took 60 HPs just to unlock the first minor trait in the elite spec. If it’s spaced out that way, I highly doubt 140 points is going to be enough to unlock the rest of the trait plus utility skills.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Vague Memory.2817:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

That’s barely a grind IMO. You will get all hero points in a couple of hours of NEW area exploration.

I highly doubt it. If you played any of the BWEs you will need gliding and mushroom jumping to get around the map properly, and these will take a lot more than a couple of hours to achieve.

New personal story gives you quite a bit of exp. Just do first mission on all your characters and you will already have gliding, shroom jumping and probably even updraft in a couple of minutes.

Still won’t be the “couple of hours” you predicted though.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

That’s barely a grind IMO. You will get all hero points in a couple of hours of NEW area exploration.

No you won’t… not if some of those hero challenges are gated behind mastery completion (for example, you may need gliding or mushroom jumping to reach some hero challenges in the HOT jungle).

Vavume.8065:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m sorry, I thought doing 100% map completion just to unlock the elite specialization counted as working for it.

As someone with 11 world completes I am totally fine with it only counting towards half an elite spec, so yeah if you thought it was going to give you the full thing you were indeed wrong, and now have to do some work for it, why should everything be added to the game retroactively? that’s basically what you wanted, new content should require new work to be done to obtain it, basic MMO 101.

11 world completes ???

Ah… so no wonder you are so acid towards those that are complaining about the required hero points. I’m sorry but I’m betting only a small minority has world completion on so many alts thus the rest of us reserve the right to complain about it, thank you.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Not really a big deal, you can do them ALL in HoT if you want to, never have to do any tyria map completion. At 10 each that is only 40 hero challenges. Once you have the WP’s that will take 2-3 hours tops.

Ah… but to get to those WPs you very well may need to lvl the requisite masteries first. Don’t forget that the Jungle is vertically layered. So no “2-3 hours tops”.

briggah.7910:

Hexalot.8194:

briggah.7910:

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

Hmmm… you do realize it’s 400 hero points per character, right ? ;-)

Yes, I just logged into the toon I had the most things completed on to actually see how many points I had left over. I have 7 unspent points on an alt that has everything unlocked and only 3% map complete.

I dunno. 400 seems big at first but I’m just saying it might not be as bad as it sounds.

As I was saying in another post, some of those 10 hero point challenges in the Jungle might very well be locked behind masteries (gliding, jumping, etc…) in that you may have to level those masteries before you can even reach some of them. Oh well… at least you can grind it in EOTMs if you are a WvWer.

The thing is, those people who are looking at the 10 hero points per hero challenge in the HOT jungle and figuring this should get you to 400 quickly are forgetting one thing… chances are a lot of the challenge locations are going to be unreachable unless you first unlock and level up the requisite masteries (gliding, mushroom jumping, etc…). So don’t be surprised if you first have to grind mastery levels before you can complete the jungle hero challenges.

briggah.7910:

400 to unlock everything so unless you start at level 1 its not as bad as it looks. I have 1 toon with 100% map and unlocked everything so far and I have 204 unspent HP..

Hmmm… you do realize it’s 400 hero points per character, right ? ;-)

… if you want to unlock your brand new shineys. :-)

ColinJohanson.2394:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Unless I am mistaken just to unlock half of the training line, we need 212 hero points?

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

vana.5467:

So from what I can tell, at 1 proof per rank and 5 proofs to a hero challenge (each worth 10 points), an elite specialization will require 200 WvW ranks and 6000 badges of honor.
Per character..?
kitten ..

It will make sense as a WvWer to get your butt over to the PVE maps right now and start grinding as many HPs as you can, since this will cut down on the ranks and badges you’ll need to hit the 400 mark when HOT launches.

Helly.2597:

Basically you need to have every current traitline unlocked (what a load of kitten), to unlock just half you need 200 points aka current full map completion, and then you need another 200. So for a new character you need to rank up 40 times (assuming that when they say maguuma challenges give 10 HPs that they are extending this to the wvw ones).

EoTM K train this weekend anyone?

All current trait lines and skills are automatically unlocked once you hit lvl 80… that was a core part of the changes made in the big June patch.

As for 400 pts needed overall… those PVEers bragging about “world completion” on half their alts are going to have to the shock of their lives… LOL.

OanSur.4590:

If they will not change the problem with damage scaling in shroud, depending on holding 1h or 2h weapon (even now shroud does more damage when you are holding staff instead of dagger/axe/scepter) the dagger will be effective only for dps out of shroud (no point in going reaper) or survivability with blood magic (more LF generated, more life siphoned).

You’re behind the times. Reaper Shroud has been coded to do the damage of 2-handed hammer. Thus it doesn’t matter if you’re wielding a one handed weapon at the time prior to entering R. shroud.

Helly.2597:

Hexalot.8194:

morrolan.9608:

Sorry but anybody who thinks that they should get retroactive scrolls from their prior rank ups is just fooling themselves. Its instant full elite specs which is clearly unreasonable.

But its not unreasonable for the average veteran PVE player to be able to do instant unlocks because chances are he already has tons of Hero Points stockpiled just from playing the way he wants ?

Now I’m just speculating, but based on how they emphasized there being a difference between HoT HPs and standard HPs, its entirely possible anet is planning on making the existing HPs not work for the elite specs (though I think it’d unnecessarily complicate the issue). This would create the sort of level ground anet wishes for it appears with their not (or at least not appearing to) applying the HPs (or rank up rewards) retroactively to wvw players.

Then again its equally possible anet just doesn’t want wvw players to have nice things.

If you read the blog again you’ll see that the new rank to HP conversion allows you to “buy” hero points from both the old maps (Tyria) and the new ones (Magumma). So stands to reason then that players pre-launch HPs will still count towards unlocking elite specs.

morrolan.9608:

Sorry but anybody who thinks that they should get retroactive scrolls from their prior rank ups is just fooling themselves. Its instant full elite specs which is clearly unreasonable.

But its not unreasonable for the average veteran PVE player to be able to do instant unlocks because chances are he already has tons of Hero Points stockpiled just from playing the way he wants ?

• shakes head *

Kaiser.9873:

Kaz.5430:

To those of you asking if it will be retrospective, the answer is clearly no.

In the interest of fairness to PvE players, we didn’t want to allow any WvW players who may have been stockpiling liquid world experience to instantly rank up a bunch of times and immediately begin unlocking the new expansion hero challenges the moment the expansion released. To that end, we’re making the following changes to liquid world experience.

Retrospective rewards would create the exact same instant hero challenge unlock scenario as stockpiled Liquid WxP. As they have specifically avoided that scenario by getting rid of liquid WxP, it seems highly unlikely (to the point of being pretty much guaranteed IMO) that they won’t award retrospective proofs for the same reason.

[edit]

IMO, the best chance of getting some quick proofs would be to use up any Liquid WxP the night before the xpac hits, leave the bouncy level-up chests unopened, log out and hope for the best when you log int post-release and open them.

Kinda wondering about those of us who are totally maxed on WvW skills with 400-500 rank points leftover. Doesn’t seem that it would be fair to allow PvE players to stockpile HP, and then take away the WvW equivalent.

Edit: went back a re-read the ANet announcement, and it could be taken two different ways.

Since there are already so many old world HPs unlocked it seems that they will be retroactive, and it also seems that perhaps the old WvW ranks will be retroactive.

Taken another way it could be that only new ranks earned after HoT launches would be used to unlock these hero scrolls.

I’m happy that WvW players will be able to unlock the elites without grinding HP in the world, but hoping that old ranks can be used.

It would be pointless to take away the ability to rank up via liquid world exp at launch if players can just use their current rank & badges to convert into hero points anyway. Just imagine how much rank and badges the average EOTM player must have stockpiled right now. It would mean instant elite unlocks on all their alts without needing to touch a drop of world exp liquid. I think it’s pretty clear they are targeting rank gained post launch.

Donari.5237:

Note that the article mentions hero points in Maguuma that WvWers can gain for a higher price than Pact Tyria ones.

Ergo HP will be in the jungle.

Ergo the high HP numbers datamined to be needed may be accurate.

But again… note the much higher price for the Magumma ones in WvW. Only makes sense if they are more valuable in some way than the regular Tyria HP challenges. Could possibly be that one Magumma Hero challenge gives more HPs than an equivalent Tyria one. Makes sense in a way since they do want to encourage exploration of the new map.

Turamarth.3248:

Nothing for current ranks I would say.
“In the interest of fairness to PvE players, we didn’t want to allow any WvW players who may have been stockpiling liquid world experience to instantly rank up a bunch of times and immediately begin unlocking the new expansion hero challenges the moment the expansion released. "

Ah… but surely you can also see how unfair that is as well. Because the same PVE players that have been stock piling Hero Points just by “playing the game”, will generally be able to use those on launch day to unlock everything. But the stock piles of ranks that WvW players have gained in the past… again just by playing the game" now become useless.

The question is… can we convert out current ranks gained from previous WvWing into the “proofs” needed to complete the PVE HP challenges ?

Because if so, the average Veteran who likely has over a thousand ranks and thousands of badges, will be able to unlock all elite traits & skills on launch day… which is something they seem to want to avoid in making those changes to Liquid world Experience.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/earning-hero-points-in-world-vs-world/

Menadena.7482:

Colin-

Thanks but can we get any info about elite unlocks? That has been a huge issue of debate here.

LOL, good luck but it’s patently clear now that ANet and the Devs are intentionally avoiding this topic like the plague until launch day or at least pretty close to it. For our sakes (and theirs !) I hope they don’t drop a bomb on us with regards to the number of hero points needed per elite spec.

Agemnon.4608:

Don’t you get it guy? The entire point of the PvE map is so you can obtain advantages when you WvW. Ascended gear = better WvW performance, need to craft or PvE for it.

We already know we need the pve map to grind Hero points. Just question is just how many do we need since many of us would like to prepare in advance of launch.

LetoII.3782:

RapidSausage.4620:

Agemnon.4608:

Don’t you get it guy? The entire point of the PvE map is so you can obtain advantages when you WvW. Ascended gear = better WvW performance, need to craft or PvE for it.

I’m talking about Hero points here not ascended gear….

Jski.6180:

They posted already and its a weekend you realy do not see them post during that time.

Posted what and where??

LetoII.3782:

If you’ve done enough WvW to warrant an insta-built character, you should have thousands of skill points.

You’re not up to date with the skill point system, read up on Hero Points.

I have hundreds of hero points.
If you’ve spent yours, or haven’t earned them.. It’s on you

As he said, you need to read up on what are Hero points.

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

What I’m wondering is why is ArenaNet not telling us anything more specific about this? They can’t still be deciding it, can they? And if they do know how many Hero Points is will take to get the Elite Specs, why not just tell everyone so we can prepare for it better?

The only reason I can think for them not telling us yet (and even then it doesn’t make much sense to me) is that they don’t want everyone with elites heading off to WvW, Fractals or whatever on launch day. They prefer instead to have veterans of the game mixing with new players as we all conquer Hero Point challenges together.

Just the way, the information was posted by the programmer guy was in itself disheartening.

Usually, the Anet Devs at least try to explain in some way the reasoning behind the changes they are making, i.e… “we are doing this because we think it will improve such and such, or have a greater impact with whatever…”. But in this case we the players are simply “informed” that these are the changes that are to come… full stop.

Really disheartening…

Wryscher.1432:

Hexalot.8194:

Maybe you don’t have to grind Hero Points after all. From their latest blog:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/its-the-final-countdown/

“Our journey is nearly over—very soon, you will be gliding through the jungle canopy, battling to level 100 in fractals, building a guild hall with your friends, overcoming challenges in the jungle to unlock your elite specialization, competing with your friends and guildmates to get to the top of our new minigame adventure leaderboards”

Granted… not an absolute confirmation maybe, but it does strongly indicate that Elite specs will be gotten via some kind of “challenges” in the new maps.

Note that per the datamined figure of 170 HPs, you wouldn’t have needed to go into the HOT jungles for extra HPs to unlock your elites.

What worries me is the phrasing. Unlock your elite spec. there is a world of difference between unlocked, and having the skills/traits to make it useable.

For example right now you unlock the ability to add trait lines at certain levels. But if you dont have the points to unlock the skills in those trait lines it doesnt matter at all that the line is unlocked.

Yes… someone else on another forum mentioned that the challenges may be just to unlock the Elite spec itself… and that you may still need the Hero Points to actually unlock the individual traits and skills.

But LOL… can you imagine if we had to grind through a whole bunch of PVE challenges in the new HOT jungle to unlock the new elite trait lines, and then when we’re done with that… go grind another 100-170 HPs just to slot the individual traits & skills ?

Good lord…

Healix.5819:

Hexalot.8194:

Well there you have it folks. Looks like the elite specs are going to be unlocked via “challenges” in the new map.

As in the elite specialization itself will be locked. It would be odd to just be given access to it, so I assumed it would be unlocked through the story. You will still need to spend hero points to unlock the actual skills and traits. That was the purpose of changing the system in the first place.

Perhaps. Or it could be that completion of the “challenges” involved will automatically grant Hero Points too. Nothing is off the table right now.

Maybe you don’t have to grind Hero Points after all. From their latest blog:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/its-the-final-countdown/

“Our journey is nearly over—very soon, you will be gliding through the jungle canopy, battling to level 100 in fractals, building a guild hall with your friends, overcoming challenges in the jungle to unlock your elite specialization, competing with your friends and guildmates to get to the top of our new minigame adventure leaderboards”

Granted… not an absolute confirmation maybe, but it does strongly indicate that Elite specs will be gotten via some kind of “challenges” in the new maps.

Note that per the datamined figure of 170 HPs, you wouldn’t have needed to go into the HOT jungles for extra HPs to unlock your elites.