Guild Wars 2

Trajan.4953:

With all the complaining about “Endgame”, what is it you actually want and/or consider Endgame?

I think that there is a lot of things in gw2 that you can call end-game. The problem is that most of it suck. And it wasn’t any better in gw1… I wonder why?

Irrodesia.3907:

HiddenNick.7206:

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

While I am sorry that you feel that way, I would appreciate you didn’t come on here to derail the thread. Thanks.

Let’s keep things civil here, please. Don’t instigate.

You’re trying to convince those already convinced… People on this forum wrote generally everything in of hundreds like this. Your opinion is dominating this forum.

Those are just from the first page of the forum:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Holy-Grind-Wars-2/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-Game-Has-Changed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/POLL-Feelings-on-Ascended-weapons/first#post2787636

And at the same time you’re saying that people that spend their lives on developing MMO’s and worked on this game for years that they don’t know what they are doing and why… Try to think first why some things are put in the game.

RyuDragnier.9476:

HiddenNick.7206:

RyuDragnier.9476:

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

This right here.

So the only issue is no karma for the failed event… Revert that and you will be all happy? This is what you mean?

No, I mean the fact that they drastically cut the achievement karma to this level AND removed the failed event karma.

Think about what you just wrote… lol

Because you just confirmed that reverting event rewords would solve the problem.

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

Yeah, the ‘AC gear is good’ thread you made didn’t work out so well for you did it? You see, the ‘AC gear is bad’ threads are ones made by people who think differently on the subject than you do. It would appear from both the ‘AC gear is good’ and the ‘AC gear is bad’ threads that a whole lot of people don’t like vertical progression. I imagine the conversation will continue unabated…just my guess.

Omg! I was discovered! Abort! Abort!

Ps. I was really hoping that everyone just changes their mind and agrees with me. Because that happens so often on the forums. lol

RyuDragnier.9476:

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

This right here.

So the only issue is no karma for the failed event… Revert that and you will be all happy? This is what you mean?

JDGumby.7685:

HiddenNick.7206:

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

Instead of balancing it properly (reducing Achievement Karma and raising Event Karma to compensate), however, they went the route of drastic cuts, both by cutting achievement karma and by giving no karma for failed events.

If getting people to do more events for their karma was the goal, removing karma from failed events was probably the worst thing they could have done as it will, once enough people start noticing it, drive people away from events that normally fail. Hard enough to get enough people to succeed at many bigger events as it is due to the transit and repair gold sinks. It might even have the effect of encouraging even more zerging, which is already a huge problem, because there are a crapton of events that regularly fail if only one or two people are there for them.

You’re talking about a different issue… Daily and monthly nerf has nothing to do with what you’re describing.

Banquetto.9521:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I had way too much Karma, that I was running out of things to use it on. Over 7 million from the start of the game until now. And that’s only a fraction of the Karma gains of some players.

I’m glad they reduced the output. With Karma being so easy to get, it made it less desirable to get. Plus, now that there’s no Karma gain from failed events, that gives more incentive to people to actually succeed for the awards.

I have millions of karma too. However, new players don’t.

It would have been smarter to deflate the value of karma by either increasing prices or introducing new, expensive things to spend it on.

That would have made karma more important both for old-timer millionaires like us, and for newer players.

The approach of drastically cutting karma earn rate, whilst leaving our stashes intact, introduces a real haves and have-nots division. It doesn’t hurt us at all. It hurts new players badly.

You’re approach is incorrect. They didn’t cut all karma income numbers. They just balanced it. Daily and monthly rewards was so ridiculously large that all other karma rewards stopped to be appealing (d+m = 5000*30 + 50000 = 250000 = 661 event rewards).

New ways of spending karma would only made daily and monthly rewards even more important. All other rewards (like the one for completing events) would be even less appealing.

Another ‘AC gear is bad’ thread… It’s getting old. It differs from ‘mounts’ threads only by that you get a lot of +1 for making one.

Asko.4120:

HiddenNick.7206:

Asko.4120:

Dear Anet,

I understand that the general consensus among players and developers was that Karma was too trivial, next-to-useless excluding Obsidian Shards and way too easy to get and turn into gold. This certainly warranted some changes, but why did you took away a lion’s share of the pot? There certainly was a middle ground between present and previous states:

- Daily now gives 600 karma instead of the 5 000 from a jug
- Monthly now gives 6 000 karma instead of 50 000 from the 10 jugs
- Dungeon and champion karma rewards gutted
- failed event karma gain removed.
The karma income numbers above from previous patch were the bare minimum: with karma modifiers that daily 5000 could almost double.

The increase in karma item’s content is highly insignificant as there are almost no sources left that even give karma consumables. The aspect of this whole matter that baffles me the most is that you combine this huge change with an increased need for karma in form of the obsidian shards being used for high level crafting. May I ask, what is your goal here?

Also another important point is that the legendary crafting is bottlenecked by karma income. One million karma is an enormous amount to spend and if a player earns 3k-5k karma per day without running braindead karma trains it will be a major point of frustration for all the active legendary crafters.

I beg you for a minute of your time to clarify the reasonings behind karma changes to the community.

Because Karma was absolutely worthless…

Did you even read what I typed? Nerfing something by 90+% is absolutely ridiculous, no matter what the subject is. I could argue that the nerf was over 95% because most people hoarded karma consumables and could get ~75% more karma from a consumable than the original value. This is arenanet killing a fly with an AA turret and Anet needs to address this.

- yes karma was pretty trivial, but you don’t solve the problem by just cutting the supply. Simply making consumables unaffected by modifiers would have affected the total karma income by lot. I’m also behind the failed event karma removal, as it incentivizes completing events. Daily reward changes were way over the top, same for dungeon reward cuts. People who only do party content are pretty screwed now.
- If karma-to-gold schenanigans with Orrian jewelry boxes was the problem then why not nerf the karma rewards within the boxes? though this problem could also have been remedied by simply making karma consumables unaffected by modifiers.
- legendaries take forever to farm now without mindless karma trains (which is glaringly against Anet’s design code). I can earn about 2000-4000 karma per day now including daily if I play for 6 hours. Gee that is enough for almost 2 obsidian shards, that a legendary requires ~500 of. I don’t think it is Anet’s intention to force legendary crafters to grind 250 hours for the shards only.
- while essentially cutting the supply of karma completely Anet even introduced a new karma sink in form of Obi shards being used for ascended crafting. This makes absolutely no sense to me.

Karma in its previous availability was a joke agreed, but Anet went to extreme measures. I’m waiting for a clarification on the changes and possible fixes.

Ok, you can argue whether or not it was an overkill… But it still was the reason behind the nerf.

Daily and monthly reward nerf was needed! You can’t deny that. With those ridiculous rewards all other karma sources was just worthless. Keep in mind that they use karma as a meaningful reward now and add some really exciting karma sources…

Shufflepants.9785:

He plays all the varied endgame content.

Like kill 1000000 raptors? Or you maybe mean things like check out 30 balloons all over the world? Or Kill a crowd of monsters in the crown pavilion?

Cassius.4831:

… I would like to know if all of these people can attach a screenshot like this.

This game doesn’t have a lack of content. This game has a lack of people who know how to enjoy it without grinding, ascended items or carrots in a stick. Because if you, people, are only able to get fun grinding, I suggest you to apply for a job in a cardboard box factory instead of wasting your time playing. It something like gathering materials and you earn some real money at the same time.

So thanks to every dev who has made possible all the fun content. Specially Josh Foreman and his team, who has been able to add new enojoyable content despite isn’t farmable and his “only” reward is the fun. You are a genius, tyvm.

So you farm AP… And in what way it’s not a grind?

Asko.4120:

Dear Anet,

I understand that the general consensus among players and developers was that Karma was too trivial, next-to-useless excluding Obsidian Shards and way too easy to get and turn into gold. This certainly warranted some changes, but why did you took away a lion’s share of the pot? There certainly was a middle ground between present and previous states:

- Daily now gives 600 karma instead of the 5 000 from a jug
- Monthly now gives 6 000 karma instead of 50 000 from the 10 jugs
- Dungeon and champion karma rewards gutted
- failed event karma gain removed.
The karma income numbers above from previous patch were the bare minimum: with karma modifiers that daily 5000 could almost double.

The increase in karma item’s content is highly insignificant as there are almost no sources left that even give karma consumables. The aspect of this whole matter that baffles me the most is that you combine this huge change with an increased need for karma in form of the obsidian shards being used for high level crafting. May I ask, what is your goal here?

Also another important point is that the legendary crafting is bottlenecked by karma income. One million karma is an enormous amount to spend and if a player earns 3k-5k karma per day without running braindead karma trains it will be a major point of frustration for all the active legendary crafters.

I beg you for a minute of your time to clarify the reasonings behind karma changes to the community.

Because Karma was absolutely worthless…

morrolan.9608:

HiddenNick.7206:

But you know what? Just put your tail between your legs and get us back on track! Make the game dead again!

So your contention is that there was no other way these things could have been achieved?

I’m just saying that AC was suppose to be this game end… When it turned out to be something opposite. And had positive impact on the overall experience.

I really shouldn’t add the last part of my post. As it clouded my intentions. I’m not even sure if I want more gear tiers. But AC gear was really well designed and I’m happy about it. So I don’t want AN to hesitate if they ever need to add more gear tiers to serve some other purpose (if someone didn’t realized yet AC gear solve a lot of problems with the game gear, crafting professions, economy and rewards).

…Is the AC gear!

I can’t believe that Orr is alive again! Can you believe that?! That dead island is blooming with life! People fighting avatars, champions, doing group events! And it gets worse… I’m meeting people all over the world! They are doing jumping puzzles mini dungeons and group events just everywhere! And the game feels alive… That must stop!

The worst thing is that they are using their crafting professions again! The same thing that they’ve used only to level up their characters! Horror!

And the WvW went from being absolutely and horribly imbalanced to absolutely and horribly imbalanced! That’s outrageous!

I hope that’s going to stop as soon as possible! And we finally get back to Mario Kart racing, crab tossing and collecting minipets!

Because playing the game as we should be is getting on my nerve again!

And you know what AN? Don’t worry that you lied and changed your mind again. From this:

How is introducing VP[Vertical Progression] respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.
We use purely cosmetic rewards for things that would be outside the reach of typical players. I have an oft-quoted line about that: “If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.”
Since you’re describing yourself as an average player and asking about average players, it shouldn’t be out-of-bounds for us to give you something new in the game that’s more meaningful to your character than a purely cosmetic change.

To never introducing new gear tier again!

But you know what? Just put your tail between your legs and get us back on track! Make the game dead again!

I’m starting to enjoy all those “AN are traitors” threads…

Snowshadow.3105:

- Introduction of the ascended gear

Dude… The AC was the best thing that happened to the game! Look at this forum activity! And it’s all thanks to the AC gear!

Edit: but I must say that you took the whine to the next level! You’re whining about everything now! That’s so cool!

cesmode.4257:

item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it

He can’t be possibly talking about ascended gear because I have 5 of them already…

Zplus.4217:

Here’s a TL;DR version of this and every other threads about gear progression:

Troll: Where was it ever said? Show me the quote!
Answer: here you go, for the 1000th time, here’s a direct quote with link.
Troll: no, seriously, where is the quote?

I’m not trolling… So you’re wrong.

Guys… I’m still pretty skeptical about AN supposedly claiming that they don’t want any progression in there game. All those quotes you gave me are saying more or less that better stats are not going to be locked behind grind or difficult content. And people who never wanted any progression understood that as they liked.

There is nothing about stopping progression shortly after launch.

There is nothing like the claims of EQ:Next developers who strictly said that there will be no vertical progression in their game. And they are trying to sell their game with that! It’s not inconvenient for marketing by any means! It’s used rather as a sell point. So that’s why I can’t understand the accusations about AN changing their mind to sell more copies of their game.

Villious.8530:

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Fungalfoot.7213:

They promised no gear treadmill and no grind and that the progression would be cosmetic.

Where?! When?! You seem to be pretty sure about that so just PLEASE give me a quote that says exactly that!

You’ve already got it in your OP:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

Everyone knows what he was referring to, it was the conventional WoW-gear grind (and clones and predecessors) that we all know and hate. You just need to accept the English and deal with it. Anet promised a new kind of MMO, got spooked, and reversed themselves. Don’t really know why, but it is as simple as that.

This……in a nutshell.

Everything that I read here was referring to a grind. He never says anything about progression. It only confirms that the progression will never be tied to a huge grind.

ps. Is AC or any other gear tier unrealistically to get for someone playing the game?

SonicTHI.3217:

The manifesto was just the tip of the iceberg. There were over 200 blog posts detailing almost every aspect of the games philosophy and design with just as many interviews given to various websites.

Unfortunately ANET took down their blog so i cant serve you the armor specific quotes but here s the one i did save:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Is_it_fun
It does far more than just address gear. Time gating, dailies, content… it is all in there and almost all wrong a year down the line.

Here s a quote specifically on items:

The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

And then there s this:
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/

Before even answering this question, I want to point out that in Guild Wars 2, being competitive isn’t all about having the best gear. It’s not like you’re going to go into world-versus-world and get smoked because someone else has a godly weapon that you can’t hope to acquire. We’ve always been against that kind of thing.

Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.

Going back to armor specific quotes. IIRC there was one that went something like this: max stat gear should be acquirable trough many different means in the game: karma, crafting, wvw and loot.

Ascended gear breaks all those design choices so the truth is:
ANET lied.

While we r discussing quotes:
A personal favourite rebuttal from fanboys is them quoting ANET: Ascended gear is meant to bridge the gap between exotic and legendary items.

Yet no such gap ever existed. Exotic gear cost anywhere from 1g to 500g and stat wise there were no differences.

This whole system was pulled out of nowhere to please a subset of hardcore progressionist players. Most of those players left the game already chasing their next carrot while the rest of us now have to suffer with bad game design and decisions.

Another quote that people keep misusing is:
There will not be another tier of gear… this year.
And as pointed out above they can always up the infusion tiers.

Added the first quote to the opening post. The other was already quoted.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Found another quote, but it’s probably something you don’t want to hear. It talks about not having another tier, but instead, have enhancements to make your gear slightly more powerful over time. A “shallow power curve” as they so put it. Which is basically a gear treadmill, but with enhancements instead.

So expect further vertical progression in the future folks.

http://gw2.junkiesnation.com/2012/11/27/chris-whiteside-talks-ascended-gear-on-reddit/

That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve.

And Mike O’Brien went on to say:

Some progression is OK, but pushing players onto a gear treadmill isn’t OK and isn’t what the game is about. I don’t think [ascended gear] invalidates the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.

Unless I’m mistaken, gradual stat progression is a gear treadmill. Thus why it is called a gear treadmill, cause you are constantly chasing the highest stats and it never ends.

EDIT: Forgot to add this as well for those who say Ascended gear was supposed to be in at launch, but never made it in time. This proves you wrong.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-27-arenanet-holds-frank-reddit-debate-on-guild-wars-2-loot-grind

The first revelation was that “in retrospect it would have been better to have included Ascended gear at launch”, wrote Whiteside. As we know, Ascended gear was designed to sit between Exotic and Legendary items. “It was not specifically designed before launch,” Whiteside added. “However, the concept of progression rewards with a shallow curve bridging other rewards was.” The whole debate about a new tier of armour being added post-launch to placate goalless hardcore players would have been avoided, too.

It’s all rather post release. So it’s not about the subject.

dalendria.3762:

Fernling.1729:

At 1:07:50 it is also talked about they don’t want any kind of grind for gear. you will obtain the best stats quickly after hitting 80 and you will only be different by looks alone.
Not exactly what you are looking for, but they specifically state(more than once) that they are bringing over the exact same gear philosophy as they had with GW1, which we now know isn’t true.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

Eric Flannum is in that video. Have not heard his name or anything from him since July 2012.

Clearly the direction was changed post-launch.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-flannum/12/194/663

He is still a Game Director in Arena Net.

MikaHR.1978:

HiddenNick.7206:

Added some quotes to my OP.

Add GDC one also where they specifically state they carry over their GW1 philosphy about that to GW2 and that anyone should have max stats basically when they reach 80 and grind is just for looks.

Sure. In a sec.

Added some quotes to my OP.

Fernling.1729:

They said they wouldn’t add any statistically better gear that takes a long time to acquire. Ascended is what they were saying wouldn’t be added.

What’s a “long time”?!

Fungalfoot.7213:

They promised no gear treadmill and no grind and that the progression would be cosmetic.

Where?! When?! You seem to be pretty sure about that so just PLEASE give me a quote that says exactly that!

I’m constantly seeing all those angry posts about how AN lied to it’s players. And I’m wondering how is that possible that I heard something totally opposite before release! I was absolutely sure that the game is going to have progression. And it’s going to be different in that regard from guild wars 1. And I was certain of that long before the release! I really was! I remember reading that they decided to strictly separate PvP from PvE so that they could do that. And that WvW was to be the place to use everything you have gained in PvE.

What is the truth?!

Edit: some quotes that people understood as claims of no gear progression.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Design_Manifesto

Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/#s:guildwars2-16

Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

And here he goes backwards on the previous quote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c77csxm

How is introducing VP[Vertical Progression] respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.
We use purely cosmetic rewards for things that would be outside the reach of typical players. I have an oft-quoted line about that: “If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.”
Since you’re describing yourself as an average player and asking about average players, it shouldn’t be out-of-bounds for us to give you something new in the game that’s more meaningful to your character than a purely cosmetic change.

Pre-release Q&A with AN. A lot about their design choices.

Fernling.1729:

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic

SonicTHI.3217:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Is_it_fun

The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

the concept of progression rewards with a shallow curve bridging other rewards was(designed before launch)

Gabby.3205:

HiddenNick.7206:

Gabby.3205:

I don’t mind upgrading my equipment only once.

Your forgetting about something… What if after balance changes your current gear stops to be optimal for your game style? You would need to replace(upgrade) that equipment… And whole your master plan falls apart.

Then I wouldn’t mind upgrading it again, if my game style demanded it.

And how is that any different then upgrading your gear to ascended gear?

Gabby.3205:

I don’t mind upgrading my equipment only once.

Your forgetting about something… What if after balance changes your current gear stops to be optimal for your game style? You would need to replace(upgrade) that equipment… And whole your master plan falls apart.

Xenn.3809:

As for your reasons for dying in WvW, of course numbers (amount of ppl) is a factor, but what about 1vs1 or equal number fights (they do happen you know) – is it gear the ultimate factor? How that’s good? On equal gear terms, skill wins, on equal skill (supposedly) gear wins then? – is that what we want? (yes, yes, is the already disparity of uplevel and exotic wearers, so lets make it worse – though I accept the uplevel disparity, its your learning the game, progressing to lvl80 – but needs to have a conclusion, not a endless vertical progression)

WvW was never intended to be about 1v1, skirmishes or even odds. You’ve got SPvP for that. I don’t know why you feel like small differences in stats are more relevant than the fact that your team can be outnumbered one to ten. This mode does nothing about balancing team sizes. So the bottom line is: if any kind of strength inequality is unacceptable for you then you shouldn’t play WvW.

Xenn.3809:

I do understand if you feel there is a lack of progression in PvE (there isn’t any in WvW and I’m enjoying the fight 1 year on) – but do you really think gear inflation is the ultimate answer? Wouldn’t you prefer hard modes for existing dungeons / zones, new challenging zones, new bosses with challenging mechanics, new dungeons, cool and unique skins to show off – there is other paths to follow without vertical gear progression – make it your personal skill progression.

If still the answer is yes, ascended all the way pls, and why not, ascended v2 next year (because once you got ascended progressions ends, right?) – then maybe we should start asking separating PvE content from any PvP form, as in WvW (note I’m not including sPvP). Beware of what you wish for, you’ll start a treadmill, make old lvl80 content even less appealing and ultimately become bored only briefly solved by a new injection of stats.

You seam that you still don’t understand why vp exists. More from the macro game mechanics side. Start with that maybe… Hint: it’s not only about that it makes people feel more rewarded.

Bunmaster.9734:

Look around you, LS is already a huge grindfest for AP and mindless zergfests. Whether you sit in LA grinding a craft or zerging events, it is a farcry from any challenge at all.

And what in the world that have anything to do with vertical progression? Every single reward from LS was purely aesthetic besides AC gear in fractals (or I’m forgetting about something). But all that grind has NOTHING to do with progression!

Astralporing.1957:

By the way, in that same AMA they specifically said that they intend to continue the item progression from now on. And nothing they said and did since suggested they changed their mind.

Great news! Thanks.

Xenn.3809:

Nowdays, I only WvW, and in a PvP game

So you are against it just because you only play WvW and PvP?! That makes no sense and it’s pretty selfish to! AC gear does not affect PvP in ANY way. And about WvW… Let me quote myself:

HiddenNick.7206:

And I don’t care about being slightly less powerful in WvW. Why? Because I’m dying not because that other guy have 5% higher stats (I’m killing 80’s all the time with my lvl 35 ranger). It’s because they have four times more people.

In WvW your just a tiny thing that alone does very little to succeed.

And I don’t play WvW or PvP. I only play PvE and it sucks because there is no clear path or progression. You can grind for a balloon or for a doll. But this is pretty unfortunate for people who does not care about balloons or dolls.

Xenn.3809:

HiddenNick.7206:

Bunmaster.9734:

The fact remains Anet made a bad choice by adding the Ascended Tier

And why it’s a fact? Because you think so?! lol

The most fun part of gw2 is progressing from lvl1 to lvl80. Why don’t you wan’t to extend that? Currently people are creating alts instead of playing their main… And that’s ok with you? Is it ok that the game is extended by adding huge grind quests? Instead of progression and challenge? That’s more fun for you?

Progression to you means vertical progression then? Gear inflation? the philosophy of no grind and diversity of play goes out of the window when you introduce a gear inflation policy – look at WoW, look at other mmos – GW stood in the idea that was different, that you change your appearance to show of your accomplishments, not by inflating numbers – I fully agree, ascended was a very bad decision from the start.

I was asking for an explanation why your point of view is so much better then mine. And instead you attacked me. I already told you why horizontal progression suck – and the bottom line was: there is no such thing as “horizontal progression”, all it translates to is a lack of progression. From your point of view WoW failed… When it didn’t! And the gw2 stopped to be really fun at level 80. That’s a failure.

Bunmaster.9734:

The fact remains Anet made a bad choice by adding the Ascended Tier

And why it’s a fact? Because you think so?! lol

The most fun part of gw2 is progressing from lvl1 to lvl80. Why don’t you wan’t to extend that? Currently people are creating alts instead of playing their main… And that’s ok with you? Is it ok that the game is extended by adding huge grind quests? Instead of progression and challenge? That’s more fun for you?

nehezbegar.1065:

Can someone tell me if that number is from the release of the game, where the players count was indeed pretty high, or it’s a number of players logged at the same time nowdays, after the playerbase stabilization?

That number is taken from the infographic here

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

I think it’s from one time peak. And when did that happen? Can’t say… But I’m sure it’s not on daily basis. Still it’s very impressive that their servers where powerful enough to support this.

urieldhynne.2743:

Because rise the stats of every player by force (because you must upgrade it for wvw, like it or not) and not by will for keep them playing this game is a terrible bad idea. Look at WoW. A non-stop rising levels and items tiers hitting and healing a CRAZY amount… You just upgrade numbers, and everyone upgrade it too, defense and offense, is all a lie. Just for keep players farming items (or crafting it)

Dude… It is just the way the game works. For example pretty standard FPS game works like this: you play the first level and then the next and the next… It’s the same game through the entire thing. But you keep playing because your progressing through the game.
When your playing WvW you are also in a loop. You win a castle and you loose a castle. It’s also a lie! Your not winning! It never ends.
Stop looking for a sense (or meaning of life – there is none and your going to die after a few more years and all that time spend in the game was pointless anyway) of all of this and just do things you have fun with and stop doing things you don’t!

Upgrading your stuff is a part of competition. Deal with it!

urieldhynne.2743:

They must use profession in a better way to keep players playing. You must can craft skins, to apply to weapons, or sell it. Same stats, keep in exotic, crafted skins (better than commons, but not better than legendary) you add visual variety to this game, players do it by will (because they want look better, not because they must be in the same level of other players).

Everyone are looking more like a light bulb now. So I don’t think that people would spend their money on more of that stuff. Mainly because there would be no challenge or work tied to it. Like a Olympic medal… It’s valued so high not because its made of gold but rather because its so hard to get one.

Grump.7069:

I refused to grind the ascended trinkets because i left WoW for exactly the same grind reason.

That’s curious… There are hundreds of quests in WoW, but for some reason the only thing worth doing for you was to grind. And still… You left because the ‘game’ forced you to. As in gw2… The only reasons to get AC gear right now is to grind fractals (that you refuse to), farm gold in dungeons (that you also refuse to) and some upper hand in WvW that is just ridiculous. But still, instead of having fun with the game, you have to grind?!

Why can’t you play the game the way you want?!

I don’t know what you all are whining about… Again… If this makes more people playing… Then it’s fine. Who cares… Currently I don’t have any way to father progress my character! I can only create new one… And that’s not what want.

And I don’t care about being slightly less powerful in WvW. Why? Because I’m dying not because that other guy have 5% higher stats (I’m killing 80’s all the time with my lvl 35 ranger). It’s because they have four times more people.

PS. AN knows what their doing. Don’t worry…

Deified.7520:

-PvE (endgame)- 8/10.
Reasons: If it wasn’t for the living story, the endgame PvE would be a 6. While fractals and dungeons are quite cool, some of the rewards for such are lackluster. The games current progression revolves heavily around gold. As a result, not all dungeons are done a lot. This has greatly improved in the recent patch and we’re heading in the right direction, but farming champions currently reigns supreme. Though most of the dungeons are beautifully designed and very fun. Fractals offer a unique look into dungeons and offer players a more challenging atmosphere. The living story really adds to the overall endgame for players in the PvE world too. This coupled with a amazing open world experience, the game earns a solid 8/10.

Your not even trying to be serious…

Gehenna.3625:

HiddenNick.7206:

Advent.6193:

No thank you. If I were a fan of subscription-based gaming, there are plenty of other options still out there.

Name 3 fantasy based MMO’s with subs.

WoW
LotRo
DDO
Aion
Rift
Tera

Most of them can be played f2p as well but still have sub options that give you more in game.

From whole that list only ONE game have subs. Others are micro transaction based.

Advent.6193:

No thank you. If I were a fan of subscription-based gaming, there are plenty of other options still out there.

Name 3 fantasy based MMO’s with subs.

zeromius.1604:

HiddenNick.7206:

zeromius.1604:

Are you looking for gear progression? Are you looking for something similar to Guild Wars 1 where you collect skills? The former isn’t really going to happen if you don’t count ascended gear.

And any other gear between level 1 whites and level 80 exotics…

I don;t know why people claim that this game wasn’t suppose to have gear progression when it did have it from the start!

You’re quoting me out of context. I was referring to gear progression beyond level 80 or max level.

If the progression before max level is fine for you… So you should be ok about max level cap increase? I doubt that.

zeromius.1604:

Are you looking for gear progression? Are you looking for something similar to Guild Wars 1 where you collect skills? The former isn’t really going to happen if you don’t count ascended gear.

And any other gear between level 1 whites and level 80 exotics…

I don;t know why people claim that this game wasn’t suppose to have gear progression when it did have it from the start!

kokiman.2364:

Gizmo.8623:

kokiman.2364:

Gizmo.8623:

I don’t want to create another character just for the sake of having something new to do. DRESSING characters is what I DON’T WANT to do – it’s not a kittening barbie game.

I guess you bought the wrong game.

I’m pretty sure I knew exactly what game I was buying. But that was one year ago.
Now it’s getting disturbing.

You bought the sequel to a game that was all about collecting skins.

I’m pretty sure that before release AN was saying that they want to change that in the sequel. That’s why they separated SPvP from PvE. But now, after so much whining, they decided to reconsider.

This thread title should be: "People aren’t playing the way I expect them to ".

zallis.2138:

“The cities will be more vibrant and bustling than ever”. too bad I won’t be able to witness that because the character models wont load before I leave lions arch

Culling and loading character models are two different things.

Culling removes things to speed up rendering. Character models does not appear instantly because of your hard drive latency. They just need time to load. The new culling algorithm also fixes that issue by showing fallback models instead of the model that’s still being loaded!

So you should be happy either way.

Deified.7520:

Looks interesting and fun. I personally can not wait!

A pretty lady is going to… Talk… What’s so special about that?

Yup… That’s about it… LW is mostly boring but sometimes it is good. The problem is that they never nailed it. I just hope they finally will…

Falcon.6521:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Actually it’s two minutes. And the map capacity of Crown Pavilion is limited to 75 before it starts to create overflows.

75 people, 6 people at a time, 2 minute matches = 75/6 *2 = 25 minutes

Obviously some people will finish their matches faster, but even if they finish in 1 minute that is still a 12 minute wait, and I doubt everyone will finish that fast.

some will finish it faster, and some will lose before those 2 minutes are up… and if they manage to hold out for two minutes, then they lose… which isn’t something they’re going to repeat often.
Also while you wait there is a bunch of content below you. Not everyone is going there for the 1v1 gauntlet.

Well – I am on an overflow and in the waiting queue for more than 30 minutes now. I also don’t know how many people are in front of me – which is annoying all by itself.

As I have to leave soon – will I loose my ticket (I did not pay attention whether I paid in advance)?

I call BS on this. Max waiting time is theoretically 25 minutes. But practically I never had to wait more then 1-2 minutes. Most people are fighting mobs below. So only a fracture is participating in the gauntlet.