And I’m still waiting for your example how to implement stat progression without either:
a) gating
b) encapsulating it
c) removing the challenge for some players due to way too easy mobs
I did: difficulty scale. Just like in FotM. For me its fine solution. You can still whine about your Grawl Shaman. EOT
If you can´t play FotM with your friends/guildmates/most other players because they are lvl 20+ and want to progress while you have no ascended gear – what else is that than gated content?
This is really bad argument…
If it is in fact gated content so is: any content for levels 1-79, group events etc.
This is plain false: any content for levels 1-79, group events, . . . has no restrictions for a player on lvl 80 without ascended gear while FotM clearly has those when agony hits in.
Just THINK once more in the context I wrote it…
To help you with that i’ll write this to show how little sense is in your response:
“This is plain false: any content in FotM level 1-5. . . has no restrictions for a player on lvl 15 without ascended gear while events in areas level 25-80 clearly has those.”
My sentence has exactly the same amount of sense as yours!
This post has been edited to remove a violation of the CoC.
something absolutely incorrect about the FotM dungeon.
Where exactly I’m incorrect?
As I explained in my other posting: Agony is not the only content blocker in the game. Try to reach lvl 20 with a team that only wears greens and you will see that their are certain HP and DPS checks you can’t beat without exploiting them (e.g. Old Tom, the Grawl Shaman or the seals on the colossals hands). And before you say that lvl 20 is only optional content, it’s not, you need to reach it in order to get access to infused ascended rings.
And this is it?! Just think about it again! I think they did a really good job in not locking anything with ascended gear. But you instead give them credit for that, whine because of Grawl Shaman that no one cares about?! OMG! You can experience fractals in almost the same way as anyone on 20th level but still whine! If this the kind of issue you can’t bare then you will never be happy with the game!
This isn’t like WoW where they lock half of the dungeons with gear that you can only acquire by farming it for months.
Wait until the whole range of ascended gear is released, then we can talk again.
Exactly… Until then don’t just assume it’s going to be bad!
And once again you took a sentence out of its context to proof nothing. The part you didn’t quote was the important one: You will see that this gear either will create a gate, that content will be too easy for those that have it or that the progression will be removed due to the scaling system.
How is that more important then the fact that ascended gear is not there yet and you have no idea how it’s going to work?
If you have the two numbers 1 and 2 they will add up to 3, it doesn’t matter if you have done the “math” already or if you are just going to do it in the future, the outcome will not change.
With stat progression it’s exactly the same, there are not many different options how it can be implemented and I gave you all of them. And btw that’s why I asked you that question, which you still haven’t asnwered yet, in the first place. So that you see it for yourself.
Ok, once upon a time there was this problem in gw1: no one played missions any more that required 8 people to complete. And they’ve fixed it by adding heroes. No one could ever predict that.
Also I think that they did a great job with fractals to resolve the issue you describe.
If you can´t play FotM with your friends/guildmates/most other players because they are lvl 20+ and want to progress while you have no ascended gear – what else is that than gated content?
This is really bad argument…
If it is in fact gated content so is: any content for levels 1-79, group events etc.
Gating a level is not the same as gating content ! You can still play all of the fractal content all of it without any ascended gear! you’re just limited on how high of a difficulty you can get!
something absolutely incorrect about the FotM dungeon.
Where exactly I’m incorrect?
Wait until the whole range of ascended gear is released, then we can talk again.
Exactly… Until then don’t just assume it’s going to be bad!
And once again you took a sentence out of its context to proof nothing. The part you didn’t quote was the important one: You will see that this gear either will create a gate, that content will be too easy for those that have it or that the progression will be removed due to the scaling system.
How is that more important then the fact that ascended gear is not there yet and you have no idea how it’s going to work?
How do you think would vertical stag progression without gated content work?
Lol!!! Did you ever played fractals?! AC gear does not gate content there but difficulty level instead! And that is just a new challenge. Entirely optional. Like difficulty levels in any other game!
AC gear creates a gate, try to get to lvl 20 without using it. You won’t survive Jade Maws auto agony every time he switches phase or you re-enter combat. He won’t just send you into down state, he will outright kill you. And since you can’t pass this gate you will never have the chance to get infused ascended rings.
In addition mobs do scale there even without agony it would not be possible to run the higher the higher levels in greens. You need certain gear to beat the DPS and HP checks.
The difficulty levels are just there to justify the gear, without them agony resi would be pointless. And above a certain level it works as a second gate that doesn’t just check your agony resi but also the rest of your gear.
If player stats increase over time mob stats have to do so too to keep the content challenging and this automatically creates a gate. If mobs don’t scale the new content would be far too easy for those players that already have the latest gear and if they do scale it is too hard for those that don’t have it.
Did you ever played guild wars 2?! Didn’t you heard about character scaling? Right now I have level 80 fully exotic/asc geared character, and I can still play with my friend who has level 11 and enjoy the game!
Did you ever play GW2 or do I just not get your sarcasm? Even while downscaled a lvl 80 char in extoics is far more powerful then a char at the appropriate level range.
In addition you should read my full statement. If the scaling system would effectively remove the vertical progression from the game why should we have it in the first place?
Ok what exactly did you wrote that my previous post DIDN’T cover?! Because you just repeated everything what I wrote last time! And I can’t argue with that.
For you down scaling players is not enough to have fun playing with someone on lower level and I do! (but what it has to do with ac gear specifically I don’t know) You say that making additional difficulty levels for the same maps is locking content and I don’t! (as long as I have chance to fight Jade Maw and this is all I care about) So we will never agree! EOT
Edit: going father with your philosophy: any game that has character levels has content gates! So this gone out of hand for you!
How do you think would vertical stag progression without gated content work?
Lol!!! Did you ever played fractals?! AC gear does not gate content there but difficulty level instead! And that is just a new challenge. Entirely optional. Like difficulty levels in any other game!
If player stats increase over time mob stats have to do so too to keep the content challenging and this automatically creates a gate. If mobs don’t scale the new content would be far too easy for those players that already have the latest gear and if they do scale it is too hard for those that don’t have it.
Did you ever played guild wars 2?! Didn’t you heard about character scaling? Right now I have level 80 fully exotic/asc geared character, and I can still play with my friend who has level 11 and enjoy the game!
Vertical progression is only bad when also used with gated content, in my opinion.
Exactly mine point of view. I don’t like WoW(or many other MMOs) not because there is a vertical progression! It’s exactly the opposite! I do like to evolve my character very much. What I really don’t like is the fact that I couldn’t see the ending of WotLK without spending months just to get the right gear!
Group events wouldn’t be so bad if they were worth it. They’re not all broken, but many are far too difficult for the lack of award, the troll you are referring to is a good example. I don’t agree with their removal. Scaling and a reward tweak would be enough.
Exactly. I like the idea of epic events but there is simply no reason to do them!
Crowds of people are still participating in dragon events. Why? Because they know where they will happen and when they will happen and they know they will be reworded for completing it.
This game does not need more content. Because it would be enough to better use existing one.
What ANet should do is better directing people where and when to go and what to do.
This is the real and I think the most major issue with gw2 right now. And I think that they know about it.
I’m literally asking you just that one question. How do we know what the majority of people think about GW2, CoD, or any other game?
I didn’t said that I know what majority of people think about gw2. I just know that the forums are not the place to seek answer whether a game is good or not. Forum is a place where people don’t agree with each other and whine about things not the opposite.
And for some of you… Trying to discuss AC gear here is a short way to thread closed!
There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?
Why?
Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.
I really don’t care if it is a gear trademill or not. I just think that AC gear is just a great idea. I don’t want to argue who is right and who is wrong in regard of AC gear! So just stop asking about it.
But I just showed you that on forums everyone hates CoD and the majority of people buy it and enjoy it!
I’m not saying that people on forums are not saying what they really think! I’m just saying that they are not representative of what majority of people thinks.
HiddenNick, you don’t need to remain in the dark on this. Engage with issues, evaluate them, and employ critical thinking. All issues of personal preference ends when customers buy a product based on those preferences and find that the company has changed the product to meet the personal preferences of someone else. That’s the dynamic that is playing out here. We can know it and we can object to it.
I’m not saying you can’t! But I also pre-ordered gw2 and I also have my own opinions. I really like the idea after AC gear and I just don’t consider it to be a gear treadmill just like you do.
There are many things I don’t like about gw2. For example the hearts mechanic and their reword system. It’s just bad and unsatisfying. And many other things. But this thread is not about that!
this is one of the oldest excuses ever used….
It starts to become really old….
My signature explains all i’d say..
The real vocal minority are those saying “hey everything is okay!! i have not any single fact but my word to prove 10.000 people are wrong and i am right but hey i am cool they just are angry childs…..because i say so obviously u.u”
You are almost insulting the right of speech and intelligence of thousands players inthis way…..say their opinion isn t representative and they are angry for nothing….
So by simply listening to forums you might think that any Call of Duty games is just terrible and people will never buy it again. But CoD games sales are growing! So why should I listen to gamers from forums about what people really thinks?
Most people don’t bother talking about how much they like the game, but just enjoy it. Frustrated people are exactly the opposite. They will always seek ways to unload their frustrations. And the forums are just perfect place to do it. Just don’t bother looking for objective opinions on forums. This is the last place where you should look!
I can’t agree with any of that you wrote. There was a message on the screen through the entire event about where to go. There was always information about the correct map and the NPC! Most of the NPC’s was marked with a STAR. The final message pointed you specifically to “Southsun Cove” map. There you had events also marked on your map. Besides that, you were informed about all steps and events by mail.
Real conclusion suppose to be this: Every decision they’ve made, every change they did and every system they’ve designed is bad or broken. But in gw1 they did everything just perfect. Is that what you mean?
1) tried to do something epic
2) tried to test a huge event internally so that anyone can’t spoil anything for others
3) added huge chunk of content absolutely free
4) tried to make people feel as they have an impact on the world
5) tried to do something that no one ever did
And for some people it’s only an opportunity to complain about:
1) how it wasn’t what they expected
2) how it was not working at all
3) how it really isn’t free
4) how Arena NET lied to them because it didn’t meet their expectations
5) how it should be more like in other games
And I think they should rather say what I do:
1) It was really epic!
2) Some parts wasn’t working but thank you for not spoiling anything to me
3) It’s free because I don’t have to pay for anything (I just payed for what I get day one and it was worth it)
4) It was so cool to do something so unique
5) I don’t want to play another WoW clone or Call of Duty. I do expect something fresh and new!
What are you talking about free content?
Dont you know that ppl constantly throw money at ANets face though the gem store. They are making probably more money than they would with subscription model (thats why they introduced this model in the first place).
So no, this content is not free, its payed for by the players.
They pay for their minis not one time events… Get you facts straight. And a majority of people didn’t pay anything to Arena NET.
I for one understand how much work goes into something like this and enjoy the event with little problems other than the bugged hunt quests. Everything else has worked.
Ye… I love gw2 and will definitly stay with the game as long as it goes but… They should create PTR becouse “let’s do one time event without proper testing it and hope it’s going to work” is not a good idea afterall.
Yesterday I’ve Fractals with three other people(one of our party members left), where one of them was level 16 and the other PUG… And we did with minor problems and all had a lot of fun with it.
Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats
And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.
One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.
I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.
I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I play with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).
And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.
1% difference is still a difference. To serious pvpers/WVWers any advantage is mandatory. I primarily play GW2 for WVW, and I prefer small group/skirmish action in WVW where even small stat differences absolutely come into play.
lol…
WvW is just for fun… Becouse all those serious WvWers can be equipped fully exotic/ascended/whatever and have 200 sidekicked level ones as teammates… Your just being silly now.
No I’m being totally serious. This game was mentioned many times as the spiritual successor to daoc because of WVW being the new RVR.
It is the area of the game I am by far the most serious and competitive at. I don’t see why that is hard to believe.
I’m glad your having fun with it… But you will not get any adventage in WvW with equipment. I’ve already explained why.
Because you are under the delusion that increased stats are not an advantage?
Dude… If you think that any difference in equipment is giving someone advantage and that’s unacceptable for you then you shouldn’t be playing WvW!
Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats
And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.
One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.
I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.
I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I play with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).
And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.
1% difference is still a difference. To serious pvpers/WVWers any advantage is mandatory. I primarily play GW2 for WVW, and I prefer small group/skirmish action in WVW where even small stat differences absolutely come into play.
lol…
WvW is just for fun… Becouse all those serious WvWers can be equipped fully exotic/ascended/whatever and have 200 sidekicked level ones as teammates… Your just being silly now.
No I’m being totally serious. This game was mentioned many times as the spiritual successor to daoc because of WVW being the new RVR.
It is the area of the game I am by far the most serious and competitive at. I don’t see why that is hard to believe.
I’m glad your having fun with it… But you will not get any adventage in WvW with equipment. I’ve already explained why.
Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats
And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.
One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.
I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.
I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I play with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).
And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.
1% difference is still a difference. To serious pvpers/WVWers any advantage is mandatory. I primarily play GW2 for WVW, and I prefer small group/skirmish action in WVW where even small stat differences absolutely come into play.
lol…
WvW is just for fun… Becouse all those serious WvWers can be equipped fully exotic/ascended/whatever and have 200 sidekicked level ones as teammates… Your just being silly now.
Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats
And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.
One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.
I don’t think you would find nearly as much opposition to this idea if the impact of the gear is only felt in that dungeon. The problem is that as proposed, it would greatly impact every area of the game outside Spvp.
I don’t expect that the impact could be even perceptible… WvW is combined effort and so is PvE (I’m playing with blue equipment and I still have fun in spite of everything that you say).
And a question for you: can you actually say whose wearing what tier based only on their performance in PvE etc.? I can’t… So I don’t really care what they are wearing.
Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats
And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.
One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.
Legendaries were not meant to be the highest tier gear. They were meant to be the highest rarity, but it was always promised that they would not be statistically better than the top-tier gear. They ALWAYS said that legendaries were meant to be about the skins, not the stats
And that’s why they will never be more powerful then last tier before them.
One more thing. After reading post about new dungeon. It is still going to be available for players with even the most basic equipment. But the hardest difficulty level of the dungeon can be defeated only with ascended gear. I think that’s a win win for everyone. It’s like the game could scale up… For those who wants it.
One thing that a lot of people misunderstood – the highest gear tier is and its going to be legendary (not exotics as some of you states). Ascended gear will not change that… Or any other tier.
What does level scaling have to do with it? (girl btw)
What would make me happy is if they gave ascended armour the same stats as exotics and just added an infusion slot-ta da!
you can mitigate agony, don’t create power creep and introduce new mechanics via infusion slots without alienating your players.
Win win.
Nope… Your exotics without infusion slot are still (you know what).
Crude and childish analogies aside, the greatest feeling I ever had in this game was when I got my last exotic. Total freedom. There was nothing that I couldn’t theoretically do and at the same time, there was nothing that I could possibly have to do in order to do something else.
A have my blues and there is nothing that I can’t do… It’s your mind playing with you saying that you can’t start playing the game before working in the game.
Ascended are never the beginning of the gear treadmill.
They already clarify it in the previous topic.
It’s more of like a remedy to the current gear progression mechanic which makes so many players ended up with a wall and nothing else to do. Their goal and intention isn’t to make a gear treadmill where they release a stronger tier every update.
Don’t judge what staircase they’re going to make by just seeing the first plank. If not, you’re over-reacting. Most likely, there will be different kinds of progression every major updates. Example: Nov – Gear progression, Feb – Mount progression, May – Housing progression, Aug – xxxxxx progression. So no worries. GW2 staircase is going to be different from traditional mmo. A colourful one that other games have not made.
Progression is vital for every mmo.
It makes players feel like doing X/Y/Z each time they login.
Have faith in them and see.
It was why this game appealed to a lot of players with lives, knowing that if you can’t play for some time, your char will still be there, your gear will still be the best and you can just pick up where you left off.
Dude they invented level skaling! Just to make you happy… To make you happy again it will just take some more invention.
Sure, the ~600 hours dumped into getting several sets of gear so far have been / will be devalued to zero. Arenanet once promised to honor the players’ time. Well, they kitten don’t give a flying kitten about the time I already invested, blindly trusting the lies they spread in their “manifesto” and similar texts.
Overreacting?
Depends. I’m mad as hell if I think about the lost hours. I’ll not overreact, though. I’ll give them once last chance. If they break any more promises that are important to me, I’m simply gone. In the meantime, I’ll surely not re-enter my credit-card information.
So you those 600hours was work for you? Or fun? If it was fun then what’s the problem?
