Guild Wars 2

Steelxsoldier.6512:

Harnak Shadowclaw and Veln on top of the box. We believe that we are the first two to get the new title on our server: Ehmry Bay.

But who was first? I don’t care about the second…

Ooshi.8607:

Stop being so grumpy, it’s a bit of harmless fun!

If you really don’t enjoy it do not take part in it, avoid Rata Sum, do not open the mysterious boxes!

A BIT of harmless fun?!

Those events are HALF of what ANet released from launch!!!

@clay

Firts of all I’m talking about a reward systems. Not about a meaning of games and why do we play them!

All your points are valid only for a single player game. but for an MMO their unreasonable.

2. Players that play the game, regardless of why they play, should be bothered when the game changes negatively. Such as when power creep gates content for new players.

But they shouldn’t be bothered when content gates are not the case. Check 3.

3. You don’t need gear progression to make content more difficult or exciting.
4. You can’t please all the people all the time.

Domain of Anguish proves that making extremely difficult content isn’t the way to go.

5. You don’t need rewards to overcome a challenge. That just creates gating, not real challenges.

It doesn’t have to create gates (again: check 3). Getting Gear can be a part of challenge and nothing is wrong with that (check 12, 13).

7. Aesthetic rewards aren’t meaningless, ask GW1 players.

They don’t have a purpose. Their are just goals and that makes them meaningless (I am a Gw1 player).

8. Your points 7 & 8 contradict each other.

They don’t.
Something has a meaning – means that something have a greater purpose.
Something is exciting – means that something exists just for a pleasure (is a goal).

9. If you can do everything in GW2 in one day only to repeat it tomorrow, you need to take a break. Also, no one is making you do anything.

I’m not.

10. No one makes you do anything, but for the record a majority of FPS players play competitively online and enjoy the kitten out of it.
11. I play games to have fun, not to work. If you want to work for a goal, get a job. The rewards are a hell of a lot better IRL than in your digital life.

Your being rude now. I’m not some lifeless guy! I’m having fun playing games! And the most fun thing about games is to compete with other players. Wining is my goal! (like in FPS game)

13. Getting gear isn’t competition, it is kitten measuring. No one wins the “gear competition”. Go play PvP or WvW if you want competition. That’s why it is there.

Getting gear can be a part of competition. And it’s a apart of ALL RPG games!

14. Making activities fun should encourage people to participate in different activities. Just giving them better rewards is a lazy approach to making people want to play them. If the reward is taken away and no one plays it, it wasn’t good to begin with.

It’s not mine or this thread point.

If you like the WoW treadmill, I’m pretty sure that game is still available to play.

I don’t. But this game reward system NEEDS a lot discussion!

The gear treadmill isn’t evil, it just provides problems for games and isn’t necessary. Everything that you perceive to be good about a gear treadmill can be solved by making better content.

Give me REAL examples of that kind of content!

clay.7849:

Ok, for example, you say the following:

Lately I’ve done the new F&F Instances – just for the fun playing it… But what did I get at the end? Karma and Gold(extrinsic rewords). And it felt like a slap in my face. It wasn’t exciting in any regard. Just the same boring reward as for anything else. Why is it bad? Because it took the meaning of what I’ve just achieved.

I just don’t understand what you are trying to say. At first, I think you are saying that the F&F instances are boring and only good for the reward. But, then I think that you are saying that the reward is bad and the mission is bad. Finally, I’m left feeling that you think the only reason for doing anything is for the reward regardless of whether the actual content was satisfying. I am also led to believe that you think that rewards should be driven by better stats (vertical progression) from the tone of the thread.

What exactly are you trying to say?

F&F Instances – they were both very fun to play I do like a lot of things about them (characters, funny dialogues, cool looking bosses and enemies). So the Intrinsic value was very high for me.
But the rewords wasn’t nowhere near to what I expect – they were meaningless(without any value whatsoever). And whole other content in the game is just like that. Very fun to play but lacks exciting rewards.

I’ll try to explain my point of view with some facts:
1. There should be always something to do in the game.
2. Players that play the game for the Intrinsic value shouldn’t be bothered by the fact that some people play it for other reasons.
3. Content gates can be removed by adding less difficult versions of the content.
4. Everything that is considered fun by the majority of players should be added to the game.
5. Rewards should have a meaning (like enabling players to overcame a challenge).
6. Rewards should be exciting.
7. Aesthetic rewards are meaningless.
8. Single aesthetic reward is exciting only for a small percentage of players.
9. Making people do the same things each day isn’t ok.
10. Making people repeat same things over and over again isn’t ok.
11. Giving people a goal and making them work for it, only gives that goal a meaning.
12. Making people compete isn’t bad and should be a part of every MMO.
13. Getting gear can be perceived as a part of competition.
14. Rewards should encourage people to participate in different activities.

What’s bad about Guild Wars 2 reward system:
1. It encourages people to do the same things over and over again (rewards are insufficiently diverse).
2. Rewards are meaningless (aside from Agony resistance and the first Rare/Exotic set).
3. Rewards aren’t exciting (99% of the rewards are just parts of Legendary weapon).
4. Legendary weapon is the worst reward ever invented. Getting one makes you feel bad the next second you get it.
5. It makes players repeat specific content many times.

What’s good about World of Warcraft Gear Treadmill:
1. Rewards are meaningful and are part of Raid Guilds competition.
2. Rewards are exciting.
3. Creates an illusion of character power progression.

What’s bad about World of Warcraft Gear Treadmill:
1. It makes players repeat specific content many times.
2. It’s redundant.
That’s about it…

People perceive Gear Treadmill as pure evil without any thought about what’s good and what’s bad about that system.

clay.7849:

HiddenNick.7206:

Astralporing.1957:

HiddenNick.7206:

Lately I’ve done the new F&F Instances – just for the fun playing it… But what did I get at the end? Karma and Gold(extrinsic rewords). And it felt like a slap in my face. It wasn’t exciting in any regard. Just the same boring reward as for anything else. Why is it bad? Because it took the meaning of what I’ve just achieved.

There are two separate problems here – meaningful rewards and eq treadmill. Do you think that having meningful rewards requires introducing treadmill, or can you perhaps imagine other ways you could be rewarded without it necessarily be better stats?

Read my posts… I don’t like to repeat myself.

PS. And do you?!

HiddenNick, it is kind of difficult to read your posts. I don’t want to insult you if you are not a native English speaker, but they are difficult to interpret.

So maybe I could clarify myself? Could you quote me the parts that are difficult to interpret?

Astralporing.1957:

HiddenNick.7206:

Lately I’ve done the new F&F Instances – just for the fun playing it… But what did I get at the end? Karma and Gold(extrinsic rewords). And it felt like a slap in my face. It wasn’t exciting in any regard. Just the same boring reward as for anything else. Why is it bad? Because it took the meaning of what I’ve just achieved.

There are two separate problems here – meaningful rewards and eq treadmill. Do you think that having meningful rewards requires introducing treadmill, or can you perhaps imagine other ways you could be rewarded without it necessarily be better stats?

Read my posts… I don’t like to repeat myself.

PS. And do you?!

Asglarek.8976:

I’m trying really hard for differentiate between your meanings of treadmill and endless grind both are exactly the same because in the end you end up with nothing. Character progression does not… no can not involve nor include extrinsic value i,e personal processions hence the reasoning behind ANET’s intrinsic philosophy mostly associated with the pre-release manifesto of “we don’t make grindy games” .

Those other games you and others quoted required you to progress albeit temporarily with new gear GW2 does not well not so far anyway.

Omg… Your one of the people I really hate… Idealist.

You can play gw2 and consume whole “intrinsic” value and stop playing – but your just not satisfied by that! You feel the need to strip the game from anything that you don’t like people doing! That’s sick! Like you would like to cure everyone from thing YOU don’t like doing!

Personally I’m not farming CoF p1 or World Bosses or repeating ANYTHING for the illusion of gain. I’m like you in this regard. I did like just playing Story modes of dungeons for pure fun.

But if I would have to choose between the reword system from Rift/WoW/SWTOR and the one from Gw2 then my decision is simple.

Why?

Lately I’ve done the new F&F Instances – just for the fun playing it… But what did I get at the end? Karma and Gold(extrinsic rewords). And it felt like a slap in my face. It wasn’t exciting in any regard. Just the same boring reward as for anything else. Why is it bad? Because it took the meaning of what I’ve just achieved.

If doing things for extrinsic is bad purely because it makes you feel wrong. Then the Gw2 rewards are also bad.

clay.7849:

OP is asking for MORE vertical progression – not saying that what we have is good enough.

I’m asking for better rewards! Because current reward system is worse then Gear Treadmill.

BadHabitZz.1856:

Well ye i see everybody but with 15fps on i5-2500k, 8BG RAM,GTX 660Ti its still unplayable…
I wonder how much do i have to turn down graphics to get some playble framerate?

I’m playing on i5-2500 and radeon 6850 both culling options set to High and I’m almost always at 20-60 fps (20 is in really BIG battles with more then 200 people). I think it’s running much better now with all those people then before with culling.

WatchTheShow.7203:

…

Why do you consider some people lesser then yourself? Because they like something that you don’t? Because it sounds like it. People are the real problem? Why? Because they have different opinions or preferences?

I’m not saying that GT is the best thing ever invented! But they are far better then the Legendary Grind!
Wouldn’t you like it more if instead of gathering resources you had to defeat series of bosses? And to do that you would have to complete a series of difficult tasks all over the world to complete your ultimate weapon?

sinzer.4018:

At present i’m happy with GW2 and its limited form of vertical progression. If Anet take the easy way out and use it as a default mechanism then it’s another matter.

What’s wrong with Gw2 is not only the limited form of progression at level 80. What’s also wrong is the road from 1 to 80! It’s to fast and easy so it makes leveling really unsatisfying experience in compassion what it should be – it’s not fun when the equipment you crafted is worthless the next day.

clay.7849:

@HiddenNick

One instance of failed design does not an entire game make. Sorry, but just because ANet made some mistakes with GW1 doesn’t mean that those mistakes defined the game.

It defined the game. That’s way they’ve made a entirely new game.

The Gw1 problems I’m talking not only about Domain of Anguish difficulty. Every other elite content was so hard that most people didn’t consider it fun at all!

People think that Gear Treadmills are just bad and that’s it. But the truth is that their just a type of game backbone. The real problem is that MMO’s have to be a place where you always find something to do. And Gw2 is not doing a good job about it. This is the truth!
I don’t think that the Gear Treadmill is the only option. But it’s far better then that what Gw2 is doing right now.

PS. Just wanted to add. I do consider Gw2 a great game! It kept me hooked for 6 months! So I’m not just some WoW fun whining (but I do think that WoW is a fun to play game).

Emosewa.9731:

It’s true…the fractal ones add one avenue for a different skin. But that’s only one avenue…and they’re not particularly good looking (though that’s not really the point either).

When it is exactly what you asking for. They are elite in regard to how hard it is to get them.
It’s only one avenue as you said but it’s showing direction when this is going and should be the answer to your question.

The problem is the second part of the quote. You don’t like them and so is a huge part of community. So how can anyone expect that they can occupy their whole community just by adding new skins? When there is such a big chance that each time they iterate and add new ones, a huge part of their community won’t see the point of getting them.

PS. Personally I love Fractal Weapon skins

Shootsfoot.9276:

HiddenNick.7206:

Shootsfoot.9276:

But working towards new skills as opposed to new gear as that video states would resolve those issues if done correctly.

They’ve already done it in WvW. Do you like it?

Done what?

Are you serious?

Ok then(answer using your words): when you play WvW you are constantly “working towards new skills as opposed to new gear as that video states”

Does that “resolve those issues” ??!!

P.S. In my opinion the whole idea is not even half as appealing as climbing the gear ladder (ie. finding epic gear and fighting epic bosses).

Besetment.9187:

The reward for pve is different but an emotional connection to the game world is important. Since pve is telegraphed, scripted and preprepared, once you experience all of the content in the game, there is nothing left to do unless anet adds more content. However, creating content that is repeatable and enjoyable multiple times takes an enormous amount of development time and resources.

And there is no guarantee that people will enjoy it. Like there are 8 Dungeons in the game right now and each of them has 4 paths. But most of the players are doing only the first path of Citadel of Flame.

Shootsfoot.9276:

But working towards new skills as opposed to new gear as that video states would resolve those issues if done correctly.

They’ve already done it in WvW. Do you like it?

Vayne.8563:

I honestly think this is what the devs in Guild Wars 2 are trying to accomplish. Keep it ticking over gradually, with different ways to get stuff, so that no one is massively disadvantaged, but you can keep working on your character, statwise. Nice a slow, a trickle at a time.

And BORING!

With a typical GT you have an illusion of getting meaningful rewards and that makes you excited when looting a body of dead boss.

And the current system is about getting very unexciting rewards and waiting until you have enough to get something you care about.

The bottom line is that the time between getting useful things is WAY TO LONG!

clay.7849:

What many argue should happen (and what GW1 did quite well) is to make content more challenging without the need for gear to increase. This not only allows you to avoid the common problems with power creep, but also to create content that new players can access so they don’t get discouraged and quit.

What are talking about!

Let’s take Domain of Anguish – great example of “content more challenging without the need for gear to increase”.

It was so HARD that 90% of players DIDN’T EVER finished it! And the rest just used EXPLOITS! There was no fun gameplay there. And what’s even worse, most of the teams consisted of 2 monks 5 ele and 1 w (because that was the only combination that let you use the AI exploits). So that also didn’t help most of the people to enjoy it.

This is how good and rewarding the Gw1 content was.

marnick.4305:

Iruwen.3164:

I remember when the first WoW addon came out and all the endgame equipment we grinded for was more or less worthless…

Worthless?! It’s because you were grinding for items! Instead of playing for achievement or fun! Rewords doesn’t have anything to do with that!

That’s settled then. No further stat improvements. Welcome to the majority playing this game.

Lol this what you call discussion?

Iruwen.3164:

HiddenNick.7206:

clay.7849:

This is a great video someone showed me once about the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic rewards playing video games.

Author did a mistake there… In WoW your grinding not to just get the items but to get items powerful enough to overcome next challenge. What’s wrong with that?!

If you like what WoW does

Where did I wrote that?!

Iruwen.3164:

In GW2, you don’t have an advantage over anybody who’s not playing the game regularly.

So let’s suppose there is a guy level 75 with Blue Equipment.

And I’m level 80 with Exotic Equipment.

And I have a huge advantage over him.

Iruwen.3164:

I remember when the first WoW addon came out and all the endgame equipment we grinded for was more or less worthless…

Worthless?! It’s because you were grinding for items! Instead of playing for achievement or fun! Rewords doesn’t have anything to do with that!

clay.7849:

This is a great video someone showed me once about the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic rewards playing video games.

Author did a mistake there… In WoW your grinding not to just get the items but to get items powerful enough to overcome next challenge. What’s wrong with that?!

Ok, so after all that whining about ascended gear being gear treadmill we didn’t get that actually. What’s wrong with it?

When I’m playing other MMO’s I’m constantly getting new rewards. Like a more powerful sword each time I defeat a huge boss – and that makes me feel rewarded because with that sword I can defeat even more powerful enemy! In Gw2 I never get anything interesting. Almost everything I find is just a small part of the reword I really care about.
And if you think that the only rewords that should be ever introduced are aesthetics then I have a news for you! That’s not working either! When the new Guild Missions skins arrived few days ago almost no one I know got excited about them! Most of the reactions I’ve seen are more or less: “I don’t care because they are dull”. So as far as I know everyone will just buy their ascended accessory and then pile up their commendations. So it seems that new skins aren’t rewording for everyone but those who like the look of them!

What’s good about this system???!!!

PS just to show how I see reword systems in Gw2 and in other games:
Typical MMO: Gear Grind -> Raid 1(challenge) -> Gear Grind -> Raid 2(challenge) -> Gear Grind -> Raid 3(challenge)
Gw2 –
Fotm level 1-10 -> Gear Griiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnd -> Fotm level 10-20 -> Gear Griiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnd -> Fotm level 20-30 (half bad)
Or
Aesthetics Griiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnd -> NOTHING (B.A.D all the way)

EDIT NOTE:
Everyone here is trying to tell me how bad the Gear Treadmills are but no one is showing me any constructive example of a worthwhile reword system.
I’m not saying that GT are the tip of the mountain called fun!
I’m just saying that rewords of the Gw2 Grind system are disappointing and boring!

I’ve played 6 months this game and I NEVER felt rewarded for anything that I did!

Going for legendary is a VERY LONG trip without any fun stops! And I’m on it for 5 of 6 months playing. Is it fun for any of you?!

+1 from me.

But I can see two major flaws of the game with the new content:

1. Instances are just a Single-Player experience without any reword (they fail again and again about rewording players). As I said, they are solid and fun to play but it’s disappointing that they encourage playing them solo. It’s a multiplayer game after all.

2. There is no solid way to track your progress. They are trying to do that with their Achievement and Mail systems when it suppose to be some kind of RPG style Quest Log! I know that they are avoiding it to stay away from quests… But that’s unreasonable to me.

Solus Kane.8507:

+1 this is why most of my guild members went back to other games seeing as how youre limited to 5 .

Which of the MMO’s have content for 6, 7, 8 or 9 players?

And actually gw2 is probably most flexible game about size of groups:

Group Events – prepared for 3 to 50 players
Guild Missions – prepared for 5 to 50 players and more
World Bosses – prepared for 20 to 50 players and more

Instances introduced in last patch – prepared for 1 to 5 players.

The game also enables you to play with people above your level in a fun way. Which isn’t the case in any of the known to me MMO’s.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

See, HiddenNick? Doesn’t collide with other player’s interests, noone is losing nothing because sleeping etc.

Why are you addressing this to me? Do you know what I meant with my opening post?

I really didn’t want to argue whether the DE system is good or bad. But is it economical from a developer stand point to introduce a new content with it? Is it going to occupy a community for the amount of time that will let the developers prepare the next package?

We all know that doing instances is. Blizzard is introducing a Raid from time to time and it is more then enough to occupy their community and make them happy (so happy that they pay for the game each month). Can the DE system be something that will occupy the community for a long time as well?

Great example of what I mean are Fractals that occupy players for dozens of hours and the Karka event that came and go in a matter of hours. Even worse is that a lot of people didn’t like the event because of the technical issues and a lot of the others didn’t even experience it! But it required from ANet to create a whole island – that some people don’t appreciate either because is seams to them that there is nothing to do in there! So it seams that DE’s are a lot harder to prepare and less efficient and fun then instanced dungeons!

Instances that you are talking about aren’t any better then DE’s in regard of economics. It’s a one time thing as the DE’s but differently introduced – we can argue about whether it’s more fun or does it have less flaws, but I really didn’t meant to.

Sinifair.1026:

No, I don’t think so. There should be certainly be implemented more content than that to fill the void between them. More goals and such.

I hope so… Just a note: those goals need to be fun to do and engaging. Some trash covered with mud is not a thing anyone would want to do.

Sinifair.1026:

- But thinking about other MMO’s there would be dungeons to do and that would almost be the only thing other than PvP before the next patch or expansion.

They’ve already said that dungeons is not what they are doing now.

Sinifair.1026:

I think it could work, but I also think it will take some time for them to understand how to best design their content.

Let’s hope it’s sooner then later

Dunan Atreides.5436:

To the OP’s point, I’m vehemently opposed to putting any more rewards to events than it has. DEs will become very much like the Mega-Boss events we have currently, with timers everywhere , and people just grinding them out, without much care for the lore or story.

Ye. What I would like to see is a reword system with other concept then: “do this 100 times and then you will get this shiny thing or do it 200 times and you will get that other shiny thing”. That’s really bad… I rather see a reword system that requires from players to complete a 100 different events all over the world.

Dunan Atreides.5436:

I think the team’s conflicted – on the one hand, they want to cater to people like you, who would like to see permanence, and things that change frequently. On the other, they have to cater to people who work, have lives, kids and other responsibilities, who can’t login everyday and can only play for so long.

That’s a huge problem. Half of the people have a good chance to be sleeping when the event happens. And an end game that only half of the players can experience is a bad idea.

Dunan Atreides.5436:

The best compromise I can see, is just having more DE sets in each area, and have more than a “WIN” and a “FAIL” state. A seperate chain of events for daytime, and a seperate chain of events for night. Maybe a few one off events during sunset.

Good points there.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

…

I can’t disagree with more… So let assume they’re doing things your way. So players started playing Gw2 and won the battle with Centaurs, won with Zaithan and conquered every temple. And then what? After a month there would be no one to fight with. Do you expect that AN or anyone can remake their world (it was developed in 6 years) every week? That’s just ridiculous.

And from your description I really can’t recognize the game I’m playing.

What’s wrong with centaurs fighting back seraph? And why not to let seraph attack centaurs again if their defeated the first time? Seraph on their event can fail and centaurs on their event can also fail. What’s wrong with that? It’s logical. If you conquer any of the temples then you can defend it as long as you like. But why would you want to forbid the undead to try take it back? Also when the temple is conquered by alliance then surroundings change: sky is brighter and the penalty effects are removed.

The only problem with this system is that the event chains are a bit to short. And that’s it.

And again about Karka event. I know about the technical issues. But lets assume that there wasn’t any. No culling or connection issues. Would you like Karka event then?

JesseyFranz.8362:

I prefer new, more, bigger and epic dungeons with reasonable rewards instead of more DE’s. I’m a GW1 player who has played GW2 since release and DE’s haven’t kept me busy at all and I don’t see how this could be end game concept.

Exactly.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Gates of Ahn’Qiraj

But… I still don’t think that you would appreciate similar event any more. In that time it was something new and exciting. There is a reason why most MMO’s aren’t trying to do that kind of things. The battle at the gates waged for minutes and then what? It was over… For how much end-game is that good for?

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

DE’s

DE’s are equivalent of quests and daily quests in other MMO’s. You should compare them with that instead. And that compassion looks pretty good from Gw2 stand point.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Uhm. For example Gates of Ahn’Qiraj. I was there, i cannot forget it. Unique event.
Nor noone who was with me forgot it nor me being there and what i did.
What we saw after the event, was the outcome of that battle, a sign for the history.
Leaders (and who got his hammer) got an unique mount, just to mark forever a respect well earned.

I don’t know about you, but i still believe most wish to be part of something unique on their game’s life. Wishing their virtual life matters..

Where is the second outcome?! If you would fail everything starts over! How is that any different from Karka Event? Only difference is that players decide when to start… And that’s it! Your just denying your self.

And the mount?! That’s your so special outcome?!

And the epicness of the event in whole his glory: http://youtu.be/5fZBwwC-ZaA
And Karka event for compassion: http://youtu.be/Rd0341FOq70

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Uhm, no. Every time i walk near the boss i still remember very well that huge battle. Still, it was a memorable memory, i was there.
Problem is, it was just unplayable huge event, nothing more. Be there or not, having him killed or not, didn’t change a kitten

And your event would be remembered just in this way (removed some words intentionally). Different outcomes? For people doing it there is only one outcome and the other one does not matter because it wouldn’t be ever experienced.

What I’m trying to say is not that Karka event was great. But that your event would suck as much but it would require a lot more work from developers stand point.

What events do you remember from other games?

At the Lost Shores event there was a great battle and at the end the ancient Karka fell in its Hive. And it stayed in that “tomb” to be remembered permanently…

So your event is just a bit different then that what Karka event was. So why are you or majority of players not so thrilled about it? I’ll tell why(as I told you in my first post)! It wasn’t just about technical problems. People didn’t care about the tomb or big battle or the entire new island. After two days it was all over and everyone had go back to be bored. And that’s the big problem. People don’t appreciate that kind of events! And they wouldn’t appreciate your epic battle either (as would you).

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

Karka island :

• Yaaay, empty island … No Vistas, No Hearts, No Reward …
• OMG THANK YOU FOR ….. what exactly ?

And a mountain that disappeared… That’s exciting! Or… No it’s not!

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

New Hearts/Vistas and reset :
Hell YEAH …otherwise when you complete a MAP (which this game has only a handfull ) why would you EVER GO BACK ? New Vistas/Hearts and Map Completion rewards might make you want to go back ^^

Ok, so for example I have 4 chars and I really don’t want to complete map with any more chars then one… And after getting the reword for completing map they can’t just take it back. So I’m completing map only once(ie. one version of it). So what the other versions of hearts are good for?

People go back to places for rewords or other reasons! Not for some heart tasks.

The only mistake that ANet did was to make leveling so easy and fast. That’s why maps are underused.

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

2 Weeks :

• there are more removed things then any here to stay things
• here to stay things are completly useless

So I say that pleasing you is just impossible. Even if would get your disappearing mountain you would say afterwords: “Nah… useless”. What’s not? Give me a real example! Because your just keep saying something like: “make something that’s not useless”. Where is any constructive feedback in that?!

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

To me difference is when an old map completely (or at least few maps semi-completely) changes.
When I can say …

• Oh look, a Dragon came to this area and really made a mess here (all new Vistas/Hearts/PoI ) …That’s new

You really would want new Hearts? And… That would also mean all previous hearts disappear… That’s not fun at all – why would you destroy something to never come back? And what about my map completion achievement? Would it reset? That would be bad. Would it stayed as it was? Also bad… Why to bother with more hearts that does not count to map completion?

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

• Wasn’t there a lake here before
• Old man said go over the mountain …. WHERE’S THE MOUNTAIN ???

What… How would you destroy a mountain?? And what about it? Who would care?

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

• Was this fortress always here… o.O ?

Ok, so you wan’t permanent dungeons right? They’ve added fractals (was this portal always here?) and mazes for Guild Puzzle Missions and some mini dungeons (was it here before? Nope…).

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

Will this “Living World” be more like I want …or just :
Here’s new dungeon that disappears in 2 weeks, have fun!
Here’s a new jumping puzzle for 2 weeks

That’s just not fair! They’ve a bunch of stuff that have stayed in the game.

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

OMG We gave you a few new NPC’s in town!!!

They’ve already added whole island so that’s unfair either – that had it’s trees cut down and settlements build upon(and nobody cared about that).

Lillian Wandom Hale.7102:

Here’s a new dungeon here to stay ..that you really have no need of doing…
-.-" :/

This is major problem of the game right now… There is no sense of achievement in the game. The rest of your statement is just unfair or false.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

I still wonder how the section title “Living World” is related to a bunch of DE repetable billion times, not changing a kitten ingame PERMANENTLY. A living world is a world where let’s say “An NPC died, because the server’s playerbase didn’t do that content”. Died, forever. With a tomb. And people passing by will remember forever that NPC and the battle related, and their server losing the hope of a better world.
THIS is a living world. What we have is just a bunch of nice textures, some stupid DEs Anet is even proud to talk about, and nothing made the playerbase interested more than do them 1 time quickly just bored of the usual AC+COF eternal grind farming gold. Living world, rofl..

In this thread I wanted to look at the new content with a developer perspective. AN is doing something new with the game and no one can know where it will lead.

But your idea would end with total disaster from developer stand point. It sounds nice to be able to let some NPC’s die or save them but… If you would let the world branch for each server individually (on some servers the NPC would be dead and on others alive) then after a while you would get 20 different worlds to support! How many developers would you need to do that? 1000? More? Maybe like… Infinite!

DE’s makes an illusion of truly dynamic world and that’s a great achievement.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

…

Everything is dying! Whatever… Just focus on the subject.

Sinifair.1026:

The DE system is a way of focusing on the current ongoings in an area and the current fights being fought around the places.
- I agree that in order for this to work better we need to have the lore integrated more thoroughly, meaning that we’re not “just doing” them, because they are basically cut of the same cloth. It seems like doing the same task but in different areas.

The Quest-system would explain some lore, whereas the DE’s kinda presumes that you have some background knowledge.
- I think that with the Living World Events we get told a story and get to see these events actually happening.
Anet keeps saying that they are enthusiastic about this way of going about making “quests” or content, but that they will probably discover the flaws and merrits over time, so that future Living World Events will become better and tell the current story even better.

In other words, I think we should give them time to examine the feedback during these events so that they can improve on it, thus giving us better, more fun and integrating story and content later on.

But still there is no challenge or replayability. Even if the story will be amazing it’s going to end after 15-30 minutes like in all other events! Or maybe it will not…

Either way people need some goals and those goals needs to occupy them for weeks or months in between the updates! Is this achievable with one time events?

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

I have no doubt about the “come and go” Just.. here is just “go”.
If you truly believe PR announcements, well..
Really? You have a way to see the real exact number (real time) of players online on gw2?
Even the past one, at launch (the famous 2M players online of Johanson) with a graph? I’m amazed waiting your answer
Can you link me this website ( or show me how it works)?

PS during WoW glorious days, i wish my guildies was offline, at least one more seat for more raids was free for me, lol

Ok, so I will better listen to you then! And assume that your a super human and know everything by simply assuming your right! lol

I don’t know the numbers. But do you know the number of current WoW subs? No… Oh my… Then it’s probably diving hard! lol

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Ye, Anet is keeping well hide the real status of the actual playerbase, and how it was at launch.

No it’s not. You can see the population status for each server whenever you want. Also Colin Johanson said some time ago that the population was rising constantly for last few weeks and their very excited about it. Also they’ve told us that the game was pre-ordered by 2M people. So you can assume what was the player base at that time.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Not even updating the real status of servers ( we saw a tiny update wth a lot of middle/low populated serves one time, it creates enough reasons for most to quit).

At the same time when they’ve added Guesting they’ve also increased population limits for all the servers. So that was your spike. Real server population are updated daily and they are growing right now (was declining after launch).

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Ye, clearly is not even near to the launch’s playerbase. You notice it too.

Of course it’s not! What did you expect? As long as the game is healthy I don’t mind people leaving – their choice. There are a lot of MMO’s out there.

PS Keep in mind that the main reason to post on the forms is to complain about something (as I am in this thread but I’m not leaving). And that if you log into mighty all WoW after a while you will probably notice that half of your guild is missing. People come and go.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

…

So it’s your personal assumption… Ok, thanks.

PS I don’t think that the player base is as large as at launch.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

It’s not.

What is not? Player base is not rising? How do you know?

Advent Leader.1083:

Once a story arc ends and is wrapped up, will it -permanently- change the landscape? (i.e, loss of hearts and some DE’s, map changes and the likes?)

I think that the Living Story after completing will arc back right to the start and run again.

Kincaidia.3192:

The event is active, but 0 invaders are left.

When there are no invaders left you need to hit portal/vehicle for the event to continue and spawn more invaders.

DOW Mageski.2097:

DE’s need more story, which I guess is what the living story is all about. Assuming this patch has some real update to the F&F, the living story DE’s might be worth it: as I find the DE’s are the best way to learn about the game world.
I remember some events more then others, and the ones I do are the ones with dialog. Just enough to get me to understand what is going on, but then over a few events get a tiny feel for the character. That is what I hope these DE’s do with the new characters they keep talking about.

Oh and a reward for killing these new enemies. Halloween had it (the best one so far) and Xmass had them. They are what make me search for events in the first place which leads to the nice dialog.

Ye, you have some great points there… But what about challenge? If your able to complete the event the first time you run it then what you do next is just farming it for the rewords. But what if there is a simpler way to acquire those rewords? People will just abandon the event (that’s why all group events are deserted – no reason to run them) and complain about that they don’t have anything to do.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Agree lol. I swear, i was thinking it was a joke, this section. A bunch of stupid DEs are the Anet idea of keep players online and an alive world? Lol. More are leaving, daily, we others left yet.
At least, who stop thinking about it a second “What in the hell i’m doing, a 5 minute DE, again, the same stupid DE i did 2 hours ago?”

Just a note… I really don’t think that Gw2 is in any despair or that population is dropping considerably (as far as I know it’s rising ant that people are playing more).

But I question the way that ANet plans to keep their player base occupied and the kind of content that they plan to add.

Please prove me wrong!

http://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/92eabBraham-4.jpg

New weapon skins or maybe even ascended weapons?

So I was just wondering how efficient dynamic events are from the developers stand point? I mean how much gameplay do we get for the time developers spend on making those events?

In other games long lasting end game is build around extremely difficult raid dungeons for which you need to be equipped with the best gear that you acquire through massive grind (I don’t wan’t to argue about if this is actually the case in all games because that’s not my point of discussion).

So this takes a lot of time to complete (like weeks) and the amount of work seems reasonable in comparison.

And what I understand from this new update description is that the new content will be few dynamic events that I expect to be extremely easy to complete and will probably last for like 15-60 minutes. And even worse… The reword you will probably get is some Karma and 2 silver!

Is this the way to go?! What is the reason behind this?

Ok, I suppose that they may be preparing some smart reword system but still… It doesn’t seem to be reasonable to do such things when you must think about making people stay in the game for a long time.

Even worst is the mentality about the events. Most people doesn’t consider DE content on equal footing with the dungeons content. Dynamic events is not what people consider as end game content.

Honestly gw2 prove me that no subs can work for an MMO… So I don’t want to pay for accessing the game any more. I rather support the game willingly and get extra stuff for it

Goodbye monthly fees!

I’m visiting it every week to find Karka for the guild bounty.