Guild Wars 2

My thoughts…. Manifesto all over again…

Fiontar.4695:

It’s what the entire game was based on. Dynamic Events, level scaling and a game where “the entire game is end game”.

After two weeks playing the game most people don’t care much about the whole world. And the entire game never was end game. Your quote was just PR saying: “we don’t have end game”.

The zones have become stale and static due to lack of updates. Almost everything added since release has been designed to suck people out of free-from, world roaming game play and reward them for linear, finely managed, old school content.

The zones have become stale and static due to lack of people having reasons to play them (CoF never become abandoned because of the new content).

It started with Fractals of the Mist. It was furthered by Living Story content that rewarded players for jumping through hoops. It was compounded by Dailies and Monthlies. It was reinforced by nerfing of earning rates for open world roaming or farming.

FotM is just a dungeon. It has its own rewards. And I don’t mean AC rings because that become available to everyone through laurel merchant shortly after FotM was introduced.

The game was designed around the concept of a vast world brought alive via dynamic events, kept vibrant through evolution of that content and kept broadly relevant via level and reward scaling.

Problem is that through flat rewards whole world became irrelevant… Only the best way to earn gold matters. That’s the issue.

The original design of the game is not really in question. The success of that design was established. Diminishing open world game play participation is a logical outgrowth of the failure to advance the game world and keep Dynamic content fresh. Not to mention the fact that so much effort has been put into content and rewards that actively train players away from open world content with the promise of shinies you won’t earn via free roaming, open world game play.

Again… New content is not the reason why people stopped playing open world. It’s the lack of reasons to do so. Rewards are flat so the whole game gives the same rewards. So there is no reason to try variety of content. At launch there was progression and people had to travel through world to level up and gear up. Now… The only thing that counts is the fastest way to earn gold. And this is why people don’t roam in the world. Not the lack of content or the LW.

The game succeeded because it wasn’t another cynical carrot on a stick grind-fest and because it had a vast, dynamic and interesting game world.

It still has the same: “vast, dynamic and interesting game world”. Problem is… There is no carrot.

It’s a game, not a simulation, so the sense of a living, breathing game world will always rely on the successful illusion of an organic, living, evolving game world. By allowing the world to remain static and fallow, the illusion is destroyed, the manifesto rendered propaganda rather than principle and the game risks devolving into just another MMO genre clone.

Manifesto was something that everyone understood in their own way… Let’s not go back there anymore. And the game is a lot different then other MMO’s – you simply can’t deny that (and please don’t give me that over exaggerated BS talk about the AC gear).

By moving to appeal to the lowest common denominator, the game risks abandoning the core audience that embraced this game and made it a success. We have enough MMOs that follow the old MMO design formula. GW2 was an exceptional standout in the storied history of MMORPGs. They created a new Paradigm for MMO design, but the lack of follow through and the backsliding towards the old, stale paradigm greatly diminish it’s ongoing potential.

Hearing that I can’t imagine what could they do to make you happy… With such expectations they were doomed from the start.

And, yes, for long term vets of the genre that finally saw a game that started to live up to the true potential of the MMO genre, the efforts to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory are more than a little frustrating.

Agree.

Fiontar.4695:

Gizmo.8623:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative. Despite this, there are many events I would still like to add. Many zones and bosses I would love to revisit. As we get better at the living world, I strongly suspect we’ll have room to get around to them as well. Assuming that’s what our players really want. You are all the second half of the collaborative process, so thanks for helping!

From release notes of “Shadow of Mad King”:
“Tyria Evolving
The world continues to evolve with new events, jumping puzzkitten sses, mini-dungeons, and achievements appearing across a variety of maps.”

This could be the only sentence in the next few update notes.

I was so busy with Halloween content and I haven’t even paid any attention to these additions

I didn’t notice them either, but to be fair, in late October of last year I was hospitalized and nearly died in the grips of an unidentified virus, so I think I have a reasonable excuse.

It makes me sad to see that quote, actually, because if that had been repeated with every patch since, the game would have been much the better for it. An evolving world of Tyria, with new Dynamic Events, Mini-dungeons and, yes, even jumping puzzles, is pretty much what I’m talking about and what Arenanet was talking about before they got ensnared in the pipe dream that has been Living Story.

There are a lot of people claiming that they like roaming around in the world exploring and “having fun”. Problem is… I don’t see them so often. And that’s why I consider claims like yours as a utter BS. Some random events scattered all over the world would never put any interest in most of the players. New content always needs rewards and challenge mechanics.

Ok, so QJ might not be perfect but I still consider it the best content update next to Lost Shores. Even tho I couldn’t believe that there is another festival coming. So what do I like about it?

1. finally some challenge! I know that there are some people that say that it’s only about the damage or it’s to easy… I don’t! I think it’s a lot fun to run the gauntlet! I don’t use dulfy or anything else to make it easier. I just enjoy it as it was intended. And I have a lot of fun with it!
2. finally some meaningful reward! As I consider the new mini pet that is rewarded for completing the gauntlet. And I don’t mean that having it means that I have to much free time and like to spend it roaming around collecting kite baskets… It means that I could complete something difficult. And that is great!
3. great mechanic that ties dynamic events with the gauntlet challenge. I mean the fact that we need to participate in the events to get access into the gauntlet. I think that this mechanic should be used all over the game. Orr events could be tied like this with the temple assaults. Great design idea here. Just use it!
4. I also like the fact that QJ shows how the new champion rewards work. By showing that different champions from different parts of the world give different rewards. Also job well done.
5. Achievements that really feel like they should. Maybe not all of them… But still. It’s a step in a good direction.
6. finally some open world content! I love the fact that everything is happening in the persistent world. I know there are some issues with the frame rate in the gauntlet. But still… The fact that I can watch other people fighting… And my friends can watch me… Feels more like a online game! I really appreciate the effort! Thanks!
7. great introduction instance. I know what’s the festival is about and that’s all what I need. Some kudos for that to.
8. and last but not least… I’ve finally found a use for my character skills. I was so tired of the mini games and all the skills tied to them so that the true combat really feels great now.

So to sum it up: some great designs here and a step in the right direction. It really gave me some hope about the game. I know that there is a lot of things that aren’t so great. But still it’s the best update to date next to Lost Shores.

NO! It shouldn’t!

Axiom.6137:

Living Story is not only a diversion of resources best spent elsewhere, but it’s ruining the game by directing people away from the game’s strengths and cramming an unsustainable content path down their throats.

Enough already, enough.

LS by it’s definition suppose to be something that evolves the world. So it suppose to be exactly what you want it to be. Instead it’s a bunch of festivals.

BobbyStein.2315:

I mentioned this in another thread, but I’ll post it here for safety. We’re working on a system to direct people through the Living World (and other) content to address many of the issues people have in experiencing a linear narrative in a non-linear setting. This is something we’ve been aware of for a while but we’re now able to talk about since the system is being built. I can’t go into specifics just yet, but the long term plan is to provide players with a central mechanism for tracking content and having a better understanding of the stories in the game.

As always, thanks for the constructive feedback.

One question… When? Weeks? Months? This Year?

Chadramar.8156:

Yes, I can’t imagine it’s really possible to crank out deep quality content in two weeks’ time, at least not consistently.

There are four teams working on living world updates. Each team has about 3 months to prepare their festival… ups… Content That is released in two separate updates during single month.

Sigmatics.7056:

Elbegast.6970:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Before you assume that you won’t be fighting horses of monsters or face difficult challenges, I urge you to try the content when it releases. Just because its a festival doesn’t mean we’re telling the same story or using the same type of content.

You don’t tell stories. You mumble half sentences that lack context and punctuation.

Why would I want to give this festival a chance when I have been severely let down by every single content patch thus far?

Then don’t try it if they’re letting you down so much. There’s seriously something wrong with you if no patch so far was compelling to you, maybe this isn’t the game for you.

Dude… They tell their stories on a… WEB SITE! They expect us to spend time searching for kites and holograms! And reward us with cakes and fireworks… More then half of their content has NOTHING to do with the game mechanics. All of this must be considered a let down given the fact that the game suppose to be about fighting dragons!

Your blind…

Vahkris.6847:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Can’t really spoil anything but August has no jumping puzzle and we definitely wanted to steer away from instanced mini-games.

So…non-instanced minigame? :P

It turns out… Yes… lol

I hope a dragon comes and burns this whole celebration!

Lexy.3912:

I wouldn’t call this a festival, in the sense that we will see it return year on year. It’s not common to celebrate 11years of a monarch’s rule – perhaps Jennah might have a 15 or 20yr Jubilee celebration, if she is still in power? But I’m doubtful this will be a regular event on the Tyrian calendar.

I do realize that it’s not recurring festival. But still it’s another celebration, festival or whatever… It’s not an epic battle against hordes of centaurs attacking walls of Divinities Reach… It’s just another party. I know it’s going to probably go wrong. So we will get among few mini games (they are just going to be open world now) short instanced mission where someone dies. And after that… Back to searching for kite baskets, holograms and effigies… Again…

Another FESTIVAL!!!

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/news/read/28202/Guild-Wars-2-Queens-Jubilee-to-Commence-August-6th.html

Hrithmus.2583:

It’s called Guild Missions. Guild bounty Tier 1-3, Guild Rush, Guild Puzzles etc etc. Not sure why people forget about these. Maybe the guild your in has no clue how to do them? It’s all end game content. As for like Raids and stuff. Nothing.

Guild Missions aren’t an end-game. It’s just a another random event you do with other people. Another farming option. That’s it.

Dagok.3948:

I think hearts are >>>> quests, so yes if they add more maps they should include more hearts.

They aren’t quests… Objectives are similar to quests but there is no story there and they are not tied together in chains.

From best to worst:

> Lost Shores
> Secret of southsun/Last stand at
> Flame & Frost (Arc)
> Mad king
> Super Adventure Box (SAB)
> Dragon Bash/Aetherblade
> Botfw / Cuttrhoad politics
> Wintersday

knyy.6427:

Deified.7520:

You’re turning the achievement system into a quest giver system. Don’t do that, please. Achievements should be a nice reward for players on the side, they should NOT be the main focus of the endgame/living story.

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 and so on!

The living story is too achievement heavy. you need to tone it down. make new achievements in the world but NOT in the content updates (with time restrictions)!

They are using achievements because there is NOTHING else that they can use to tell people where they need to be.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

I find that add to the realism, though.

In real life, if I want to know what’s going on, I have to get informed, too.

At least in GW, there’s only a limited number of sources for info: website/blog announcements (which you get emailed, too…), wiki, forum (in that order) or if you want to save some time, dulfy.

It’s really not that hard.

Omg… How in the world a new player could know where to start looking?! There is no way you can excuse AN for not introducing everything you need to know about the in game story INSIDE THE GAME! It’s that simple.

The only reason why it’s not in the game is that they don’t have proper tools to do that (like quests).

You can change traits on the go… You just can’t re spend your trait points.

Ye thanks, now don’t have to ever play WvW.

Vayne.8563:

A friend of mine used to play Rift, but he had a job and all. Used to raid with his guild. Everything was cool. Then the new expansion came out but he was busy for a month with work. Couldn’t play much. So his entire guild is onto the new content, where he still had to grind the gear he needed to be able to play with them. It wasn’t much fun grinding alone, and by the time he got to where they were, they’d be working on the next tier of gear. He stopped playing Rift because of this.

So what? I know people who stopped playing because they already have their exotics.

Vayne.8563:

Right now, anyone in my guild can do any dungeon with anyone else in my guild (exception is high level fractals). But any other dungeon in the game is open season. Even people gone six months and come in and play with us no problem.

But why do want to even go to that dungeon again if you already have everything you can get there?

jfeez.8209:

i really hope this is implemented in a similar way to capturing elites, i.e going to hunt certain mobs or go to certain places to learn the skills

Blog post says that they will add new ways of acquiring skill points. Skills are going to be probably just added to your pool.

jfeez.8209:

Finally!! meaningful horizontal progression, i really hope this is implemented in a similar way to capturing elites, i.e going to hunt certain mobs or go to certain places to learn the skills. Either way the one thing that has always bugged me was how little choice we had on skills, while a lot for them wouldn’t have been used if there was more the illusion of choice is fantastic.

Sorry but… I use only one of my elites and only a fraction of utility skills. So really don’t care much about skills.

All gear found is going to be crap… So it’s still going to be about farming gold and some materials to get pair of shoes for every occasion. So I’m finally over with the game.

cesmode.4257:

This is the grindiest MMO I’ve ever played.

What MMO’s have you played? Which ones do you consider less grindy then gw2? And which one was the least grindy?

Edit: I don’t want to argue with you. I’m just curious.

AntiGw.9367:

You should think of them as a combined three paths. That’s only 7 full dungeon clears. That’s not a grind.

I don’t want to argue with you but personally I think that 7 dungeon runs is a lot. Also spending couple of dozens of hours repeating single instance is a grind… But that’s just me.

@Raine, @Vayne

This thread is not about what the game was promised to be. It’s about what the game WAS. There was a lot of issues at launch as there are now. But still – the game was a lot more fun back then! Why it’s not so fun anymore? Why it’s something completely different now?

I don’t know that making gw2 more like Rift or WoW is the solution. I really doubt it. But I know that when the game launched I was doing certain things and had a lot of fun with it. And the things I was doing had nothing to do with collecting kites and playing a game about drinking beer…

AntiGw.9367:

Now we have more fun options.

Like what?

Antitheist.5306:

tl;dr: Arenanet should stop working on things that the OP doesn’t like, and instead focus 24/7 on making him happy so he doesn’t get bored.

I don’t know what should they do… I’m just saying that the game used to be more fun for me. And the fact is that back then it was about something else then now. I had a dragon to kill and whole world to explore. Now I have kites to collect and a race to win.

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

…and it wasn’t because there was more mini-games.

At launch the game was about dynamic events, leveling, crafting and gear progression. I had more fun back then. I really miss that time. I loved the feeling that there is a reason to fight that monster and help those peasants. Now I feel that the game is about farming achievements and getting 8th back piece that I really don’t need and don’t care about… I never cared much about achievements. That didn’t change. But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

After launch I was playing a LOT. Now I rarely log in. Just to check out new area or dungeon. After an hour I’m done and bored. I spend more time on the forums now.

more mini-games… yay

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

I particularly like the current content. So do lots of people I’ve talked to.

We aren’t talking whether or not you or anyone else like the content… Bu is there anything good about removing this content?

So do like the fact that the content we get is temporary? Why?!

Yes, there’s something good about removing it. It keeps people playing together instead of separating out. I mean when the new content comes, people aren’t going to mostly stay here. They’re going to move on.

I don’t think that it has anything to do with the content being removed. It’s more about content being new.

Galen Grey.4709:

[spoil]One of the council members was killed, left vacant seat on the council which has two people fighting for the spot (you can talk to both in Labyrinthine Cliffs [/spoil]

Why are you using that [spoil] marker? The LS is already gone… So you can’t spoil it to anyone!

Galen Grey.4709:

HiddenNick.7206:

killcannon.2576:

It keeps people logging in so they don’t miss the content.

Then it sure isn’t working for me… I don’t have much time for playing lately so it’s pretty discouraging that I miss a lot of stuff.

Some of the content is temporary and you’ll miss it fine.

Not some! 90% of content is temporary!

But still when you come back/ have time to play you’ll still have new stuff to enjoy / the permanent stuff released previously!

why should it be such a big deal that you missed some of it?

This is your argument? That’s it’s my fault that it bothers me?! There are couple of reasons of that!
1. I’ll miss story and origins of new stories.
2. I’ll miss context of story (like who is Ellen Kiel for example)
3. I can’t choose from what I really like to do from all things that was available.
4. I’ll miss rewards I could care about.
5. I’ll miss out specific content that I like (like dungeons and play mario cart instead).
and so on…

Your argument is pretty bad… What do YOU get from the fact that the content is temporary?!

killcannon.2576:

It keeps people logging in so they don’t miss the content.

Then it sure isn’t working for me… I don’t have much time for playing lately so it’s pretty discouraging that I miss a lot of stuff.

Vayne.8563:

I particularly like the current content. So do lots of people I’ve talked to.

We aren’t talking whether or not you or anyone else like the content… But is there anything good about removing it?

So do like the fact that the content we get is temporary? Why?!

tigirius.9014:

Just look at Wildstar how many UI elements will be in that game at launch that we expected in GW2 but never saw even after a whole years worth of updates monthly?

Like what?

Astralporing.1957:

HiddenNick.7206:

Wolfield.9812:

Why are they not tradeable, would be a lovely place to farm decent skins that people would pay alot of gold for.

Because they suppose to show your achievement and I don’t mean achievement like: farmed cof for a month.

Like legendaries exist to show your achievement and are not tradable on TP…
oh wait.

There is nothing hard in getting legendary… It’s just about farming. So I don’t care whether or not legendaries are on TP.

Wolfield.9812:

Why are they not tradeable, would be a lovely place to farm decent skins that people would pay alot of gold for.

Because they suppose to show your achievement and I don’t mean achievement like: farmed cof for a month.

Erasculio.2914:

When you begin to worry more about rewards than about the experience, you are opening the door to what every other MMORPG does – mediocre content just to get a shiny reward in the end, aka grind.

I do have fun playing gw2! That’s not my problem. There is nothing to fix there – for me. I just don’t like those mini games. I think they are most certainly not the answer for the people that are bored with the game.

And if you read my other posts then you would know that the meaning of rewards suck.

Edit. One more thing. MMO’s are like community hubs. It’s not only about the gameplay but more about interactions with other people. Showing your achievements to other people is a part of that.

Vayne.8563:

Ah, lost touch with the community. How single-minded of you.

WHICH community. You mean the community of people who agree with you. They’ve lost touch with what YOU want in a game. Maybe what people who share your play style want in a game.

They didn’t lost touch with you because you would be glad with anything what they do…

Edit: I think what Insignya is trying to say is that AN is not doing what is the best for the game. They just react mindlessly to that what the current rant is about.

Morrigan.2809:

What do you mean that you want rewards to have meaning? What would be a meaningful reward to you?

It’s not about the kind of reward. But the way you acquire them.

And this sums it up pretty well (check BOLD and read with understanding):

Insignya.8625:

Reward is crucial
This is not equivalent to stat upgrades. Why do people seem to think so? Every successful title rewards players in some way – be it a meaningful story ending, a powerful item, a new armor set and so on. What’s Guild Wars 2’s alternative? One person slaves for weeks grinding gold for whatever goal he has in his mind. The other tosses 4 rares in a gambling pit and gets an item worth 500 gold. This is simply offensive. So I’m rewarded for not playing the game but playing with my luck? That’s absurd, it’s pointless! Who, other than the person who drew the winning number, enjoys it?
The best rewards should be the hardest to earn
Grinding for the most awesome looking skins is lazy development. Period. Something like the Scavenged Hunt may do little to increase player count, but it will do all the good in the world for veterans and that will pay off in the future. Raids might be met with the typical “oh WoW clone” statement but they will return players in the game. These mechanics already exist in other games, only they are associated with gear grinding. I applaud your effort to make an MMO without vertical progression. But you can’t make a lasting MMO without rewards, it simply doesn’t work and hasn’t worked for any developer.

Morrigan.2809:

My short term goal is to have fun while I play so I structure my other goals around that.

Sounds like PR BS…

My medium goal is to get all my alts geared in ways that I like and suit my playstyle and concept of my characters.

So you do like gear grinding… You just don’t like to gear up one character more then once. And rather gear more then one char… Pretty bad argument here.

Long Term?
I am sort of tentatively thinking of getting Kudzu for my Ranger.

Grind…

Other than that my long term goal is simply to have fun like I have from the start.

Meaning I log on, pick what character I’m in the mood for and head to a place I like and just run some DE’s hang out, talk to some folks etc.

Again PR BS…

Morrigan.2809:

“on rails endgame” means simply what you do in every other MMO-
let me give you an example:
do you have this piece of gear yet? no? ok lets do this dungeon/quest line so you can get it
Why? So you can do this next Dungeon/raid/quest.
Why? So you can get that other piece of gear.

Lol indeed if you think goals have to be pointed out to you by game design or they either don’t exist or are grind.

Falling behind as in needing to regear my characters so I can pick up where I left off.
iN other words “preparing to have fun”

The problem is that you see in my every post something that’s not there: that I want gear grind. I don’t want it!!! I just don’t care so much about it. It wouldn’t destroy or improve my experience whatsoever.

What I want is that rewards have meaning. And that’s only that.

And one question: when did you started having fun? At level 80 or before? And if you were having fun all the time then why do you care so much about not leveling?

Morrigan.2809:

I never said LS was great, I said I understand what they are trying to do with it and I am enjoying it
Goals: here you go with the grind, this grind that again- what is it with that?
I have never grinded- I don’t grind and I despise grinding since I am not a hamster.

So what do you do? What are YOUR goals in the game after months of playing?

Morrigan.2809:

HiddenNick.7206:

Morrigan.2809:

Open World, down leveling, the whole game is endgame
no on rails endgame where you have to do x so you can do y so you can do…
Skills tied to weapons, combat in general.
Cosmetic progression
no mandatory grind
Living Story
The ability to create your own goals
Pick up and play with out falling behind.

This is just off the top of my head and I could go on but I’m not going to reread the entire thread.

As I have thought… You just don’t get what Insignya is asking for.

oh I get what Insignya is asking for.
I also recall you making a thread “What is this game about?”

People have been telling you both the same thing but it is not what you want to hear.

So I’ll just try to explain how much your wrong:

“Open World” – I do want open world as Insignya or any of us.
“Down leveling” – I do like it.
“The whole game is endgame” – that’s just BS. In any other MMO you can explore as much as you like but it’s not an end game. And I also do like those hidden JP’s. I just really don’t know what for is that chest at the end. And events? I think they are great. So I don’t want any of that to vanish.
“No on rails endgame where you have to do x so you can do y so you can do…” – example. Because I don’t get what you mean. You seam to be describing something like personal story but that’s already in the game. But I may be wrong.
“Skills tied to weapons, combat in general.” – I do like it.
“Cosmetic progression.” – I just don’t care about what kind of progression is there. But I assure you that if the cosmetic progression is everything that’s there then I’ll be happy about it. But are you not forgetting about something… Like WvW ranks?
“No mandatory grind” – I don’t like grinding
“Living Story” – about that… I’m just not so certain that it’s just so kitten good as you pretend it is.
“The ability to create your own goals” – goals you mean are like: grind this or that. You can have that as much as you want. I don;t care. LOL.
“Pick up and play with out falling behind” – I assure you that we are agreeing with that also. (Or maybe your saying that being on lower level fractals is falling behind?)

So where do we disagree actually?

But if you think that adding an RNG box with a slight chance of getting new skin is perfectly fine then we have to disagree on that.

I would rather like to find locked in some deep and hard to get to dungeon or some epic and huge dynamic event that’s so hard to beat that doing so actually means something.

Morrigan.2809:

Open World, down leveling, the whole game is endgame
no on rails endgame where you have to do x so you can do y so you can do…
Skills tied to weapons, combat in general.
Cosmetic progression
no mandatory grind
Living Story
The ability to create your own goals
Pick up and play with out falling behind.

This is just off the top of my head and I could go on but I’m not going to reread the entire thread.

As I have thought… You just don’t get what Insignya is asking for.

Morrigan.2809:

Please understand that everyone does not play like you do and that what you see as flaws we see as strengths of the game.

Like what?

Vayne.8563:

I’m an old time RPGer and I love this game, because I can just wander around and find stuff. I’m not overly worried about going to where an arrow points me. I love the little hidden stuff, like the hidden event in AC for example. It’s not marked on any map, you just have to find it. Entrances to some of the mini dungeons are that way too.

Are you telling me that you play this game without any goal? Just mindlessly walking around? And you didn’t get bored with a game that’s nearly a year old?

I think… And I might be right… That your like a gem in the entire gw2 community! With people like you, developers doesn’t even have to spend their time on designing game play! Because you will be playing their game for eternity no matter what.
Unfortunately you are just one gem… For the rest of us this game doesn’t have anything that would keep us playing right now.

Some silly mini games? Or an instance once a week or even less frequently that we are done with after an hour or two? The other stuff is just boring grind without any challenge. Or did I forget about something?

And think about it… Does adding some more demanding stuff would disrupt your mindless tours? You don’t have any goal and you are going to have fun with anything. So why do you care so much?

Keep in mind that we don’t want any gear grinding or AN to forget about their manifesto. I would rather be glad to finally see them keep some of their promises (I have to remind that now at every post)

Insignya you need to calm down. There are hundreds of people that understand you and do agree with you. You shouldn’t care about the others so much…

But I do disagree about that the living story as a bad thing from top to bottom. Right now it really sucks (just as you describe). But from what I heard it appears that it’s also going to be a way to do just what you describe in more realistic and meaningful way. Like making World Boss battles more fun is going to be a part of some of the stories. It’s definitely a better way to incorporate this into the game then just writing somewhere in patch notes: “revamped shatterer encounter”.

Tried the new dungeon twice. Spend few hours there… And didn’t finished it. First tim ewe failed because of the bug near the end. Second time we(me and some random fellows) just couldn’t defeat the last boss. I don’t think it’s to hard! But I’ll probably never have time to try it again… And I’ll never see the ending. I feel sad right now. And it came to me… Why does this Living Story needs to disappear?! Arah is still there! And CoF! And other dungeons to!

It doesn’t make any sense!

CrossedHorse.4261:

What I object to is that the “challenging content” suggestions people seem to have all involve gear progression, which excludes ANet’s designated target demographic.

I never said I want gear progression. But I don’t care as much as you do.

Either way challenge does not mean gear progression. And if the only thing I get for playing are skins. Then I don’t want them to be just a time sink.