Guild Wars 2

Radioactive.1248:

What does the title have to do with what you posted here.

I was replying to the op who apparently deleted his post but not the thread….

Skeletonwitch.3280:

The way characters used to level up was nice wasn’kitten

Edit: Umm, the filter…

wasn’t
it

There we go!

Yup, I didn’t realize just how stupid the new way was until I decided to reroll 1 of my characters. Apparently Anet thinks that WvW players are rich and will have no problem buying every trait as well as weapons and gear (if you ever want to be able to salvage your runes and sigils).

The constant gold sink of siege, food/utility buffs, and upgrading structures means we lose money playing WvW since the rewards are so terrible. What I do have is several million karma. Let me spend that for the new weapon/character traits.

Please please please for the love of all that’s holy introduce a way for WvW players to unlock the new profession skills and traits through the use of Karma and/or badges. I am really looking forward to the new profession and new weapons but I don’t want to have to grind countless hours of PvE to play the only part of the game I enjoy.

I just hope the whole “learn to be druids” thing isn’t limited to grinding crap out in PvE. I’m really hoping they give those of us that prefer to PvP/WvW our own path.

Chrispy.5641:

Gotejjeken.1267:

I like the Druid concept, but support has never been a huge focus of the game…so not sure how much I am hyped yet.

The one Attack we saw was a trail of vines. We know what Rangers do with Vines already in this game. I think its safe to say that while Druids will have a lot of support, there’s going to be a lot of cc as well.

Hopefully cc that ignores the 5 man aoe limit (the same way veil and line of warding does) so that we will find a place in GvG and zergs.

Can you provide a link to the announcement?

Dadnir.5038:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Dadnir.5038:

- Carion devourer : maybe the best suvivability in PvE (not for the retreat but because of it’s very high toughness). Very best pet to use with rampage as one because of it’s double hit attack pattern that stack 2 stack of might for each every second instead of one for other pets. And F2 is a medium lasting poison aoe with base damage tick every second, always nice.

That’s very misleading. Devourers will only stack the most might if the target doesn’t move for the entire duration of the skill and if there isn’t anything within 900 range that can be targeted.

If there is anything else that can be targeted (door, npc, supply, etc.) the marsh drake will stack more might.

If the target is moving devourers become the worst pet for might stacking. Even spiders will do a better job of stacking might as long as they land atleast 1 immobilize.

You get it wrong Jim. Even without it’s f2 ability, devourer would still be the best at might stacking because their auto attack hit twice in the time every other pet hit once. which simply mean 2x might.

No, sorry. Go test it out for yourself. What I wrote is completely accurate.

I don’t understand why you just sit somewhere. If you aren’t finding action go set up some siege and start knocking on a tower or keep. Either someone will show up to fight or you snag the objective. Either way = profit.

Plus if you do take a keep they are going to want it back. Build some ac’s to whittle down their numbers into a group you can fight and then jump out and let them have it.

That was bad kitten

Dadnir.5038:

- Carion devourer : maybe the best suvivability in PvE (not for the retreat but because of it’s very high toughness). Very best pet to use with rampage as one because of it’s double hit attack pattern that stack 2 stack of might for each every second instead of one for other pets. And F2 is a medium lasting poison aoe with base damage tick every second, always nice.

That’s very misleading. Devourers will only stack the most might if the target doesn’t move for the entire duration of the skill and if there isn’t anything within 900 range that can be targeted.

If there is anything else that can be targeted (door, npc, supply, etc.) the marsh drake will stack more might.

If the target is moving devourers become the worst pet for might stacking. Even spiders will do a better job of stacking might as long as they land atleast 1 immobilize.

Weez.6315:

By rebalancing lb dmg i mean lowering the damage from far and increasing it from close range.

That would ruin the weapon. It is ridiculously easy to break projectiles by running through the player, longbow is not a weapon for up close fighting. That’s what GS and S/x are for.

Your ideas sound like the logic anet used when they nerfed the kitten out of shortbow to encourage people to use longbow. I’m all for increasing variety by fixing some of the ranger issues (pet ai, pet pathing, rooting mechanics, dealing less damage because we have pets, etc.) but nerfing the things that work is not the answer.

Kreed.2768:

I’ve also noticed this can happen too if the target is on terrain that’s even only a little uneven.

Which is about 99% of the WvW maps….

Weez.6315:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.

So you’re saying they should shorten the rapid fire channel even more and make it a stronger burst skill? Um… Ok, I’d be willing to go along with that.

No i didnt say that in this post, if you would ask me i would change the whole Channeling skill mechanic, rebelance the dmg and improve the ranger as a member of a group.

My suggestion would be that channeling skills do not hit anymore after 1 dodge. The effect would be that rangers would have to set up their burst like other classes have to. (Using CCs,soft CCs to land their full burst)

Improving the ranger as member of a group means ( since we are talking about lb) the ranger should be effective in closer range next to his teammates with that weapon, sharing boons with each other etc.
To be most effective in 1500 range is the wrong approach since it does not have anything to do with teamplay.
Thats why rangers aren´t that viable in tpvp. It´s 1 player standing far away ready to get ganked.
On open field (wvw) it´s a different story. You see enemies from far away and can react to it.

Their range has nothing to do with it, this isn’t a dungeon where everyone is stacking in a corner. Rangers aren’t viable in tpvp because their mobility doesn’t compete with thieves and mesmers (who fill the same roll) on maps that allow vertical ports. On Legacy of the Foefire a ranger kicks kitten because he can easily cover 2 points but there aren’t enough maps like that in the rotation.

And when you say reballance the damage I’m betting you mean nerf the damage right? The reason rapid fire received a buff was to give the weapon some burst damage. Without it there are way too many builds that could simply out heal the sustained damage of the weapon.

Look at the post above yours. He is saying the same thing everyone else does when they die to rangers. “1 v 1 I can take on a ranger no problem, but when they are in a group all they have to do is stand behind their allies and auto attack to win.”

So what exactly is the problem here? Other burst builds being used by classes like mesmer or thief can pop in and out of the fight using stealth and teleports to do their damage and escape. Rangers have low access to stealth and no teleports so they rely on their range to keep them safe while they deliver their burst. Their are a butt load of counters to ranged damage and rangers are always targeted first. If you are having problems dealing with rapid fire that is simply an l2p issue.

What server are you on now and what are your normal hours of play? You might be fine where you are.

Weez.6315:

Ranger was in a bad spot before the patch so anet does the easiest thing to “balance” a class. They just increase the Dmg, instead of changing class mechanics, supportskills etc.
Increasing / lowering the dmg cant be always the solution.

1500 range burst is only avoidable with certain skills, that you may not have available with your class or with a change of your whole build or with luck cause you got the right skills out of cooldown. Otherwise you will get perforated.

You need 1 dodge to avoid a warrior´s evis. other classes are in close range to burst so you have many options to defend yourself. You can either dodge, CC, soft CC or use a block/invul skill etc
You would need 2 dodges for the Ranger`s rapidfire and you would still get hit.

So you’re saying they should shorten the rapid fire channel even more and make it a stronger burst skill? Um… Ok, I’d be willing to go along with that.

They could just steal the animation from thieves and warriors. I’ll take functionality over originality any day.

Bwahahaha I see myself in the giant spider tonic. I spent a good chunk of last night zerg bombing you guys as a giant spider shooting off the birthday blaster.

Maybe you guys should have tried… I don’t know… pushing out of your spawn. You had more people than us, half of us were running around in tonic form and your spawn was right there. What more do you need?

And don’t act like it was siege preventing you from coming out, we threw out a couple hundred siege sites as a joke. A couple pugs built 2 regular bali’s and half built a treb. What is that going to stop?

How many posts are you going to make complaining about thieves? Have you posted your build yet so people can help you? Have you made a thief yet to learn how to fight them? Try one of these things or stick to 1 thread, your complaining is getting old.

They did it for engi’s

I think the biggest change whirling defense needs is to allow you to move while using it.

Dayra.7405:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Dayra.7405:

Still the point is: This thread don’t look for fights on eotm-map.
It asked for a BL-map in Eotm-mode, to get more fights.

The point is it wouldn’t be any different. It’s just wasting more time on eotm that the devs should be spending on WvW.

24/7 matches with fixed capacity where a bad idea from the beginning, but as long as people could maintain the illusion of a competition it worked.

But WvW died in 2014, 24/7 competition is widely recognized as illusion that can never work, spending time on it is a waste.

It’s really not, they just need to adjust the scoring system and add a floating cap for the amount of players allowed in to WvW to keep the matches competitive…. of course that would mean they need to assign some people to work on WvW so it is unlikely we will see that happening anytime soon.

Very strong in WvW. They are great in PvP for dealing with the celestial boon stacking garbage meta, but necros have to fight an uphill battle in PvP since you are started off with 0 life force.

Dayra.7405:

Still the point is: This thread don’t look for fights on eotm-map.
It asked for a BL-map in Eotm-mode, to get more fights.

The point is it wouldn’t be any different. It’s just wasting more time on eotm that the devs should be spending on WvW.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jim Hunter.6821:

I’m confused about your sigil of frailty recommendation. Vulnerability upkeep is already so high for ranger and if you are running with other people it’s almost always maxed out. I mean for the weapons the op is asking about you can hit 25 stacks on your own. On what weapon and in what game mode do you recommend using it over something else?

You can reach 20 stack of vulnerability (10 from rapide fire, 5 from opening strike, 5 from maul) a bit more depending on your pet, but that’s only a burst, you can’t keep that up. In dungeon, Longbow shouldn’t be used except for the initial burst so he should put between 15-20 vulnerability during the first 15sec of the fight, then it will drop to a constant 9-10 Vulnerability. In most pugs, 25 stack of vulnerability is not that hard to reach, but really hard to keep.
- If he pugs dungeon and do open world with Ranger runes, frailty will be the best option.
- If he do dungeon on a regular basis and do speed run he should use damage modifier sigils like force/night/undead.
- In fractal, frailty is good for pugs because most ppl can’t melee and don’t bring Skale venom, leaving the group with a lower vulnerability than the same group usually does in dungeon. Again, if he run organized group, better option are there for him.

Valentin.2073:

A typical zerker ranger would use ranger runes, sigil of air and accuracy or force. Signets of stone, hunt, and wild. Elites can be swapped between rampage as one and entangle. Possible pets are stalker, jungle spider, wolf, bird, and drakehound.

Only signet of the wild should appear on that list. Signet of the hunt is nice to have in open world, but useless in dungeon. Stone is only needed when you learn the profession. In dungeon Frost Spirit and Wild should always be there, the third should be Zephir if possible, but you can change it if you need a bit of help. Again Entangle is nice in open world, useless in dungeon.

Fair enough, it’s probably been at least a year since I’ve run a dungeon. I stick to PvP/WvW where the burst is way more important than sustain. I almost forgot how the dungeons mobs are big bags of health that take way too long to kill for the lack of challenge they provide. I can definitely see how it would be the superior sigil for that game mode.

Thaddeus.4891:

You shouldn’t run the same thing in WvW and PvE. If you try, you gonna end up with a build that don’t do good dmg in PvE and that don’t offer you enough in WvW.

For PvE. Rune should either be Scholar or Ranger depending if you can keep high level of hp or not. Sigils depend on what you run the most.
Sigil of Force + Accuracy will work everywhere in PvE, but don’t use accuracy if you are using Rune of the Ranger. With rune of the ranger sigil of frailty would be better. Sigil of night would be even better for night dungeon (which are the dungeon that are the best to gain money) and Sigil of Undead slaying would be better if you like to run arah.

Sigil of Air and Fire are not that good in PvE. They mostly give a good burst which is perfect for pvp, but not overall good DPS, which is what you want in PvE.

I’m confused about your sigil of frailty recommendation. Vulnerability upkeep is already so high for ranger and if you are running with other people it’s almost always maxed out. I mean for the weapons the op is asking about you can hit 25 stacks on your own. On what weapon and in what game mode do you recommend using it over something else?

Dayra.7405:

If the BL map is unchanged it will have the same (low) rewards in EotM-mode as a BL map in WvW-mode. In any case BL isn’t usually considered a PvE map (even if it is a PvD map 80% of the time)

And already in T3 you do not have enough people in WvW for fights during the day or night. That’s better in EotM-mode (not map).

Glossary of terms:
EotM-mode: matches take 4 hours, teams are composed of all servers with the same color
WvW-mode: matches take 24/7, teams are single servers only
EotM-map: the currently only map available in EotM-mode,
BL-Map: one of the maps available in WvW-mode

WvW-player claim that it’s mostly karma-train on Eotm-map, in fact, in lower tiers it has during the day more fights as WvW, simply because: there are so few enemies in WvW you hardly find them to fight them.

I play in T7, I can find fights any time of the day. They might not be large fights like during prime time but they are still fights. Hop into eotm right now and see what you find. I guarantee it will be 90% uplevels karma training and actively avoiding fights. You might find a few crappy thieves to kill that think they are good because they farm uplevel PvE players all day, but I wouldn’t even call killing those thieves a fight.

EotM offers no incentive to fight or defend, giving them another map to karma train is pointless. If they want to promote fights they should do it in WvW.

Dayra.7405:

Jim Hunter.6821:

umm if you are looking for fights why are you playing on a PvE map?

You should try to read the text before giving your usual meaningless statement

Oh I read it, I don’t see what would make a new eotm map any different from the other garbage map. Unless you remove all rewards from capping, people will still use it for a karma train rather than fighting.

If you want more fights than you should ask anet to close down EotM and give way better loot for player kills. I bet if precursors dropped from player kills a little more often or they came up with some new skins that you could only get through WvW kills you would see a lot more people fighting.

Sagramor.7395:

I’m really not sure why people pigeonhole Axe into condition only builds when only one of the attacks applies a damaging condition. And besides having those bleed stacks to cover the Weakness is pretty nice.

Care to share with the group what you’ve come up with?

When I use A/A it’s with GS. Mostly for soloing camps and small group ops in WvW, not so much for dueling/PvP.

It’s because the auto attack is too slow and the might stacks are too short. It works with condi’s because you can apply the condi’s and push up the tick damage with auto attacks. With power you lose too much might before getting off any burst attacks.

Zoef.2761:

Is this true: u run runes of the ranger, your pet is dead and u still get bonus damage if u have a minipet equipped?

From the wiki:
The bonus is also applied if the player has a miniature out or has used a summoning skill from a gizmo, e.g. via Summon Familiar (bat).

They might decide to change that 1 day but since the runes are fairly cheap you aren’t losing out on anything by running them for now. I just personally prefer the stats and bonus that pack runes offer.

umm if you are looking for fights why are you playing on a PvE map?

Reverence.6915:

Loosmaster.8263:

Buy gems and transfer to T1. It’s the meta solution to all of WvW problems.

You’ll have less chance of getting map completion in T1 than in T8. It’s actually easiest to complete in T8 as you can get your PvE guild, if it’s large enough, get on the map you need completion on, and completely take it over if you have a decent amount of people. If that happens in T2 or T1, you’ll simply get farmed for loot bags while you try to run around taking points.

Yeah… no. Their PvE guild would need to be massive to do this even in the lower tiers. As it is right now SoR runs an event every night to bring in their PvE players and they will have us outnumbered for a couple hours until the event ends and we farm the hell out of them during the events. PvE players can’t even blob properly, we can easily spread them out by giving a couple roamers to chase and if we push them they scatter and run.

I’ve noticed my wolf no longer reliably opens with its knockdown, it seems to be rng now, and if I quickly swap to use the fear on people stomping an ally I better make sure to target one of the players or my wolf will run to narnia to use its fear on someone.

Pet responsiveness seems to have taken a hit as well. I’ll hit return to me about 50 times and my pet just gives me that, ”You’re not my supervisor!” look as he dives into all the aoe he can find.

Wow the censorship on this forum is kittening stupid. That is supposed to be
*a bit…. cheaper

I run air and force on my bow and bloodlust and battle on my GS, although I might end up swapping battle for fire or intelligence with the upcoming nerf to might. Fire is real handy on a melee weapon for tracking a thief in stealth.

I prefer runes of the pack but runes of the ranger work pretty well and I believe they are still a kitteneaper. If you decide to run runes of the ranger you should also equip a mini pet so that you still have the damage bonus if your pet dies.

SilverWF.4789:

“changes to Maul "

Excuse me, but what changes you are talking?

It’s been a couple months but they increased the cleave range and number of targets

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

2015 and people still on this matter?

Sword should be the default weapon for ranger. Best weapon, 2 evades on it, and the “freedom” of having an off-hand (which should be axe 90% of the time).

GS is by far inferior (17% dps difference), and should be used only in situations where you wanna max melee, which are rare encounters anyways.

Sword/axe may surpass GS for power builds once they allow you to use skills without rooting you in place, especially on whirling defense. Until they do that the better weapon comes down to user preference.

However I do need to argue that the dps difference doesn’t make GS inferior because GS has better burst damage which is way more important when fighting another player. There is a reason people started complaining about longbow after rapid fire received a buff. The overall damage the longbow did was pretty much the same but now the a ranger could burst down the professions with tanky builds.

While I was thinking PvE when I was commenting, even in PvP, I would chose S/A over GS.

GS may have a bigger burst on paper, but applying it is something else entirely… The whole weapon is so much dependent on 1 skill (maul), and once that misses, it becomes a useless stick untill you either swap, or get maul back again. Experienced players will not get damaged by maul 80% of the time.

It’s really easy to cancel the skill but still get the animation to make players waste their dodges. I almost never miss a maul. Path of scars however is much harder to land.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

2015 and people still on this matter?

Sword should be the default weapon for ranger. Best weapon, 2 evades on it, and the “freedom” of having an off-hand (which should be axe 90% of the time).

GS is by far inferior (17% dps difference), and should be used only in situations where you wanna max melee, which are rare encounters anyways.

Sword/axe may surpass GS for power builds once they allow you to use skills without rooting you in place, especially on whirling defense. Until they do that the better weapon comes down to user preference.

However I do need to argue that the dps difference doesn’t make GS inferior because GS has better burst damage which is way more important when fighting another player. There is a reason people started complaining about longbow after rapid fire received a buff. The overall damage the longbow did was pretty much the same but now the a ranger could burst down the professions with tanky builds.

coglin.1867:

DarkSyze.8627:

Bertrand; So you say tanky gear is answer for not instant kill? Do Super Class use tanky gear for not instant kill? No! So it is ok for them to not use tanky gear and wrong for other class to not use them? I find funny because like rich example; rich say to poor, “It is fault for not have more”? who control instant damage? Thief, Elementalist and Engineer.

There is no “super class”, there is only your personal inability to handle a glass cannon build. You should really learn to accept some responsibility here.

No, some do not use tanky gear, and they can die just as fast as you. Any profession can make a very quick killing glass cannon. It is about builds, not professions.

Your analogy is horrible in my opinion, this is nothing like comparing a wealthy person to a poor person.

You should either gear for more defense, or trait for more defense. Otherwise, you get a build with little defense, and hence, your problem.

Or build and trait for more offense and learn to outplay your opponent. Either way there is no instant win super profession, there are simply builds that counter yours and players with different levels of skill.

From a PvP/WvW perspective I prefer GS because burst damage>sustained damage.
I also wanted to add a couple positives you missed in the op.

Ranged cripple (that also does a nice bit of damage)
Stun/daze/interrupt
Double leap finisher
On demand evade with swoop

Main hand sword has it’s place, I’m sure it’s fantastic in PvE where the mobs have huge telegraphs and you can wait for the evade to activate, it’s also really good for a condi build where you can load them up with condi’s and spam evades, but for power I love my GS.

Castien.1872:

I’m returning to GW2 after being away from the game for a long time. I plan to run with my Ranger. Problem is, I hate longbow (feels too slow to me). I’d love to run a Shortbow + Axe/x build, but I’m unsure how to build it. It’s for open world PvE (map completion & living story mainly). I’ve heard numerous times that it doesn’t matter what I run, but that doesn’t mean I can’t optimize as much as possible. With that said, I’d love to get some help on a decent SB + Axe build and gear tips. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

For open world PvE? Equip 2 bears, stand behind them and pew pew to your hearts content. As far as gear goes, you can be completely naked and you’ll be fine.

xDudisx.5914:

Aggrostemma.1703:

I understand what xDudisx says and I accept that s/he likes it… I still say it is not really optimal. A healthy mix of soldiers/knights/berserker/celestial is the way to go…

(just my 2 cents…)

In a 1v1 perspective where the enemy stay and fight full celestial is the best by far. It is basicaly the op build from spvp adapted to wvw.

Yup, it’s pretty much the ele version of running condi thief or PU mes. Low risk/ high reward. The trade off is the higher the number of people in the fight the less effective the build becomes.

Dadnir.5038:

I do agree with how you see the bears but not the devourer.
Let me explain, the real strengh of the devourer is it’s synergy with “rampage as one” there ain’t better pet to grant you might stack than the devourer. In fact, each time they attack they hit twice (meaning 2 might stacks) while in the same time other pets will only hit once. Also, carrion devourer have a good F2.

I had to go and test this out on the PvP golems to see how true it is. What I found is on a perfectly still target that is completely alone the devourer will get you up to 12 stacks of might for a couple seconds before it starts dropping off again. This is the highest on a single target as long as it doesn’t move.

Now if the target is within 900 range of any other target such as a door, supply, ambient, npc, etc. the marshdrake will easily stack more might.

With the moving golem that goes in circles at normal speed the devourer missed almost every hit, and every other pet I tested ended up stacking more might, even the spider because it managed to land its immobilize.

So I guess in rare situations where you have a solo npc that doesn’t move, and you would rather have about 2 more stacks of might than a pet that could provide buffs to your entire party, the devourer might be worth bringing.

I’ve roamed with a pig, it was mediocre. If they changed it so that whatever is foraged went directly to your f2 slot I would start using them all the time.

ArchonWing.9480:

Oh, so you can actually get your pet to body block that too?

That’s gonna take some work for me.

Only use your pet for certain classes though. If it’s something like a ranger or mesmer you are much better off sending your pet after an ambient or another player and stealth stomping since they need a target to use their downed skill.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Let him use what he wants. If it works for him it works.

I never told tribio to stop using dual bow, I just warned the op that it is a bad build.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Dual bow is pretty silly

I absolutely agree

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

but I’m sure it has it’s advantages.

In what possible way? Remember the key word here is advantages, that means it needs to bring something to the table to make it a better choice than any other weapon.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

If OP wants tips on what weapon/build is best he will ask.

That’s exactly what the op was doing, and since the op is new to ranger I wanted to give him a warning, to keep him from running a bad build that might end up making him hate the class and switching to something else.

I’d say use whichever works best for you but try replacing shortbow with sword/torch. The burn uptime will last throughout an entire fight with offhand training and you will gain a lot of survivability through the evades, and the leaps through your water field.

SoulSin.5682:

Xillllix.3485:

I once took at 14k Killshot, and now they are making that skill 40% faster (thanks to some twisted game intentional unbalancing). If a warrior is stealthed there is no way to even see it coming. No skill should do more than 8k at full max berserker. In comparison it take 400% more time to cast a churning earth that does 50% less damage with a class that has 50% less hp.

You can reflect it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Might

Substance E.4852:

Klonko.8341:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Could add a short pulsing reveal to it so as long as a thief or mesmer is in entangle they have to break out of it the same way as everyone else.

No need to reveal, the vines already have an animation if they have someone caught in it.

I think the idea is to prevent a thief from simply CnD the vines and casually strolling out of it.

Umm yeah.. maybe I didn’t explain it well enough? I meant with each pulse of entangle the thief/mesmer/whatever receives the revealed debuff to prevent them from stealthing and walking out. If they destroy the vines, or use a skill like withdraw to escape, the revealed debuff should only last another second at most as long as they have moved away from the area.

Seems like this would keep entangle working the way it’s supposed to without hurting anything.

Could add a short pulsing reveal to it so as long as a thief or mesmer is in entangle they have to break out of it the same way as everyone else.

Send in the wolf to use fear and stealth stomp. If you can’t get close drop a barrage on their body and use pbs on anyone trying to rez. Using maul on a couple players trying to rez their buddy is always fun.