Guild Wars 2

Le Rooster.8715:

the system is only broken for ranks 1-5 think about that for a second.

It may be becoming broken for ranks 8-14 too because of the ratings gap developing.

Manual intervention is the only solution.

Muuuhhhhaaaaahhhaahhaah! The revenge of SBI

Well I’m getting very worried about this rating gap. SBI and BP are going to get screwed by it.

There is no way that SoS should be closer in rating to TC than SBI is to CD. There’s no way SoS should be closer to SoR than SBI and BP are to SoS. Etc… Etc… Etc…

There’s no way the chances of SBI playing servers above and below them should look like this (from Snowreap’s analysis):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/Who-would-you-like-to-face-next-week/2354130

Now I’m willing to give it a little more time but unless we or BP get matched up with servers higher than us, we will continue to lose rating. Anet needs to do some manual intervention. These ratings are not becoming more “accurate”.

Sabull.5670:

• Brace yourselves! The winter is coming! All borderland central lakes have frozen and a grab toss type open skirmish objective have been added to the middle of the frozen lake that triggers on a 3 hour timer. Team that holds the objective for longest during the event gains an orb that fills 500 supplies to chosen keep/tower. No siege can be used on the slippery ice. Holes have been drilled in the ice so heros can dive under to gain help of the Quaggan race or for stealthy movement.

Omgoodness. This would be so awesome!

As for mine:

- take away the ability of Mes portal to go through walls. No more “sweep for Mesmers”

- add two structures of some type to the BLs – one in the far NE and one in the far NW. There is a lot of wasted space up there where no one ever goes

ABBP – anybody but BP

I’ve had fun these past three weeks. You’ve gotten the best of us but we’ve had victories and defeats – and great fights and fun. But SBI needs a break from you.

This thread is full of gold if you can weed through the chest-thumping, so have our past threads with BP been like that. Every SBI should read it – but make sure you don’t get caught up in the drama. BP often is spot on. I may suggest that in our forums.

In fact just about everyone’s analysis has a piece of the puzzle.

BP has vastly superior organization and strategy.

SBI has better tactics and PvP fighting. I’m not saying there aren’t great tactics and fighters on BP but I think overall, SBI is better.

And organization and strategy beat tactics and fighting skills every time.

Fellow SBI, the BP posters are telling us how they are beating us. But we’re not listening. They are right – we need strategy. Right now we have none.

I’m not going to say anything about numbers or coverage because I honestly don’t know. And neither does anyone else.

What I will say is that to us SBIers, it seems like BP has more numbers than they actually do – because of the way they utilized the people they do have. They are the best map hoppers we have faced since TSYM – anyone remember them from back in the beginning? We would be amazed because it seemed like everywhere we went and tried to attack, 50 TSYM would show up – seemingly out of nowhere.

This has been a great matchup for the last few weeks. Don’t take any of this personally though – we can learn a great deal if we are just willing. And don’t give up SBI! Awesome fights, defenses, attacks, victories, defeats, cheering and gnashing of teeth. Congrats to all.

I just switched to this build and am loving it so far. Makes me useful in large group play in WvW. (Copy and paste link if it doesn’t work as I’ve noticed many of them to intothemists do not)

http://www.intothemists.com/calc/index.php?build=VH;4wEVx-v2cEF-0;9k1a;1TJJ;006917-59;54-V0;2ytbUytbUNpFz0-35;3ZVcWhXm2t3z_61V-70HV8aNX8a;9;9;9;9;9;4V9k3K

I haven’t gotten all my exotics yet and I’m not sure about the trinkets actually. I’m poor because I only play WvW so that’s why I am going with the Karma Lyssa Armor. Except I am going to switch out the pants for something else because I don’t think I need +Cond. Dmg.

I’m not an expert at combining stats so any suggestions would be welcome!

I’m was running something similar before switching to my trap build. I may go back to it using your setup – I think its better than the one I was using.

I love GS too. I may have to try the Energy sigils… I also love dodging.

Yeah, give my Ranger a blast finisher on my Greatsword!

I still think this system is better than the previous – but it is not good by any stretch. I have avocated for a manual matchmaking system since the beginning – and I stand by that. A manual matchmaking system is the way to go and Anet needs to do it now. Or at least have some human input so crazy things don’t happen.

Anet needs to hire someone from the Humanities or Social Sciences to determine the matchmaking system and stop letting the computer people decide something that computers simply cannot do well.

I’ll take the NA Servers because that’s where I play and what I’m familiar with. Any human can look at the situation and say the following. Now some humans may disagree with these specifics, but the generalities are obvious:

There are obviously 3 top servers – SoR, BG and JQ.
There is TC next. TC may be able to put up a good fight against the top 3.
Next there is DB. DB didn’t do well when paired up with 2 of the top 3 a couple of weeks ago. But they still may be able to have good fights when matched up with some combination of the top 4.
FA next. The combination of TC, DB and FA is what we had for a long time. But when paired up with TC and a weaker server, TC dominated.
Next there is a gap.
Then we have a grouping of servers: Mag, SOS, Yaks, EmBay, Kain and perhaps CD.
Big gap.
SBI and BP.
Another gap.
Darkhaven, IoJ, NSP, GoM, SF, Devonas, HoD, AR. Not necessarily in that order.
FC and ET. Who actually do better and have more fun when they are NOT paired with each other.

A human could look at the this information (and much more than I can just glancing at the past matchups) and come up with far better matchups week in and week out than any computer system ever could.

A human would not put SoS together with TC for weeks in a row (and with SoR once nonetheless). A computer would (and has).

A human would not interpret SoS’s matches with TC to mean that they should be rated CLOSER to them so that SoS and TC should play together more. A compter would (and has) – SOS is still gaining rating.

Before you think this is from a SoS player who (rightfully imho) is upset with the new system, I am from SBI. We’ve had some great matchups lately. But there is a big ratings gap above us. I’m worried about that – and especially worried about how a computer may interpret it. And match us together with BP and one of the lower servers more often that humans would want to be in that matchup. I don’t want to be stuck fighting BP and lower servers all the time. I want to be able to fight some servers above us.

I don’t care what the numbers say. Or what a servers “rating” is. A human being can do some things better than a computer – and matchmaking in GW2 is one of them.

So you’re going to run a GS/ (sometimes SB sometimes LB)? For general PvE? I going to run a LB/GS in WvW myself and I’ve been toying around with runes/sigils.

I think I’ve settled on sigil of accuracy for my bow. Not sure about the GS but probably accuracy or force.

6 and 7 against #2. May be an opportunity.

From SBI. As long as its not BP and AR I’ll be happy. Two weeks of the same is enough, even though it is a good close match.

Although I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of each other because of the way the ratings are settling. I’m getting worried about the ratings gap. I don’t want to be stuck playing only BP, AR and servers with lower rating. There is a serious 200 pt. gap above SBI and BP and almost that below.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

Just posting in the most epic thread ever that’s all continue on.

Looololll, me too.

Holy moly what is happening in game right now? BP is going on a rampage. Got all of EB. And AR, comeon, why you takin’ our BL like that?

Darn gw2tracker website makin’ me look at it.

Warkeil.8904:

Johje Holan.4607:

Good video and thanks for doing the WvW Highlights.

But that is some bullkitten! Two people being the reason for a keep (Hills nonetheless) flipping. Perma-Stealth blows. Portaling through unbroken walls and gates is bullkitten.

This right here explains 90% of the accusations of hacking when a place is taken with walls and gates intact.

Well, Thieves and Mesmers are not exclusive to one single server/guild so anyone can try doing this. Therefore… It’s a fair unfair thing in the game. :P I don’t know, just being impartial.

And you are welcome! I’ll be posting PvP and WvW videos every week!

Sure anyone can do it. I didn’t mean it was not fair. I just think its bullkitten and needs to be changed so no one can do it.

Zosk.5609:

Seriously, people don’t care about the scoreboard.

Even if the system was perfect, MOST people are going out to WvW to have fun and find interesting fights…. this vocal minority of people who live by the scoreboard and are willing to run siege for hours “For the realm” need to realize the hard fact…they are a minority.

That being said, it’s even worse because the current scoring system is total crap. The winner each week is chosen by who has the most people participating and the most off-hours coverage…that’s it! Why would anybody take it seriously enough to pass up potentially fun fights?

Well I don’t know who cares about the scoreboard and who doesn’t. Witness the “fair weather” phenomenon. And I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make – using strategy or not?

But I do agree with you that most people play for the fun and for interesting fights. And that is why using strategy is better – it will lead to more fun and more interesting fights.

Tulisin.6945:

zerospin.8604:

Do people really not understand the rule 1. of strategy? In order to win, you attack the strongest, as soon as possible, in order to become the strongest, or risk them swallow smaller competition and grow so much, you will never reach them. That is the no1. reason of the unbalanced match results.

Here’s the thing: WvW doesn’t really incentivize being in first place. The actual reward schema for WvW has very little to do with mastering your tier, and even less to do with moving up a tier. For most people, farming the weak server is more fun than banding together with it (thus reducing available targets), and perhaps more importantly in the context of GW2 it is more rewarding. First place doesn’t get anything but a few small server-wide benefits that end as soon as the match does. Most WvW rewards are at the personal level, and at the personal level you get more rank and more loot taking the easy path.

I do agree that Anet needs to incentivize attacking the stronger server. And I agree that there needs to be better rewards for defending and tasks other than zerg around and cap stuff.

But I find it hard to believe that people play WvW for the rewards, I mean PvE gives much more. I think people play for the fun and excitment of fighting other humans and not NPC’s. If it takes more rewards to get more people into WvW I’m all for it.

And I agreee 100% with the OP. I’ve been saying it for a long time. We can’t wait for Anet to do something. The power is in our hands, as players, to do something now.

If people would just use strategy against the stronger server they would have a lot more fun. You’d hear a lot less complaining about unbalanced matches. There’d be less stacking of servers because you’d be able to feel like you were able to have fun, good fights and successes even when you’re the smaller server.

Good video and thanks for doing the WvW Highlights.

But that is some bullkitten! Two people being the reason for a keep (Hills nonetheless) flipping. Perma-Stealth blows. Portaling through unbroken walls and gates is bullkitten.

This right here explains 90% of the accusations of hacking when a place is taken with walls and gates intact.

This is a great idea. I was just recently noticing how much wasted space there is in the BL.

Put something new there – call it an outpost – with like spiked wooden stakes around it. Something in between a tower and a camp.

I’ll sign. At this point I’m getting really worried about the ratings gap that is being created by the new system. I’m fearing that we (SBI) may be stuck with BP and AR a lot.

Thrumdi.9216:

morrolan.9608:

Pavel.8531:

Nope, these 100 power/cond dmg and 250 vit stay until death(not even downed, only death).

But thats absurd, obviously the WvW abilities shouldn’t give such an advantage.

Anet’s attitude towards WvW is bizarrely schizophrenic.

On the one hand it’s got to be accessible for casuals (can’t have WvW-only gear, because then the PvE’ers who come out once a week would cry).

Yet, on the other hand, you have advantages on the level of the Orbs of Power available to those who have the time to grind WXP.

Some consistency would be nice.

Yeah seriously. And can I have another one time re-trait? This puts the AC line to shame now.

Get your guard abilities then:

Step 1: Enter WvW and proceed to take a few camps.
Step 2: Pwn the enemy.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Nak.8315:

People, you gotta keep in mind anything they do with the rating system isn’t an overnight fix. Its going to take Several weeks if not months to make sure each servers strength is getting the right opponent.

What about those servers who haven’t won this year at all? How much more they should wait for a fair match up?

Just because you and many others love the current system, how many more months and years should our patience continue? We already lost 10 WvWvW guilds to other servers and didn’t get any guild transfers for months.

I seriously do not believe the glicko system will ever give accurate numbers. And here are my arguments:
- coverage issues need to be addressed 1st. Right now the one with the superior coverage wins
- imbalanced match ups, which have been occuring to some EU servers for entire year 2013, can cause boredom in both the winning and losing side, thus one of them doesn’t play at full strength
- server transfers happen all the time and change the strength of the server faster than the glicko can react. Thus the glicko score is gonna be inaccurate forever.

I have a theory: People who defend the current system and oppose WULD have been enjoying balanced match ups at least once this year!

This is only the 4th week of the new system. If you all haven’t won in 2013 it is because of the old system. You were stagnated in the wrong position. The new system will be better for you.

Hickeroar.9734:

salluks.6017:

SUPERIOR SIEGE bug already, its multiplying!!

Whoa wait what?

Is the bug that you can’t build it? That would be awesome.

What GS do you all use with your rangers?

I’m about to buy my Exotic GS but most of the cool ones seem to have + Cond. Dmg. That doesn’t seem too useful – is it?

Unlless it affects traps – does it? I guess it would since it changes your attributes. But does the +Cond Dmg count when you lay the trap or when the trap goes off?

(Sorry, didn’t mean to derail your thread but its quasi related).

Figulus.2709:

But it seems like only a minority of the playerbase is also interested, and it’s “legality” is questionable.

Yes only a minority of the playerbase is interested in it – but the interest is growing. I’ve been trying to get people to do it for a very long time. And I’ve heard more in support of a 2v1 against the strongest server since the matchmaking system changed than I have in all the previous months since launch.

That’s one thing I’m hoping the new matchmaking system does – encourage proper 2v1’s against the stronger server. It makes an unbalanced match so much more fun.

As to the “legality” – it is actually supported by Anet and they have said that this is one of the reasons for having 3 servers in a match. Its one reason it is WvWvW and not just WvW.

The hours leading up to reset are much more fun now though. Not knowing and the anticipation of who we will be facing is great.

Yeah, they just need to get rid of rally in WvW.

Entropy.4732:

The dynamic goes something like this: The 2nd server panics because the 3rd server is gaining ground, threatening to over take them. The 2nd server makes a deal with the devil (the 1st server) in order to team up against the weaker, upstart server (3rd) in order to wipe them from the map and preserve their second place slot.

Well yeah that is cowardly.

A proper double team is the most fair, honorable and fun thing that can happen in a match. This would be a double team by two weaker servers against the stronger one.

Any other kind is just lame and weak.

Yeah, rally is terrible for WvW. They should remove it.

Frenk.5917:

Instead of making the orbs granting buffs to the server which holds them, just use this method instead:

There are 3 orbs. The server which is leading in the matchup doesn’t gain ANY bonus for holding them. So why should YOU protect them? Simply: to not to let the other two servers get those buffs from them. Moreover add a mechanich which grants a bonus in points whenever a server take the orb from the winning server (like get +10’000 points in the wvwvw matchup in addition to the buffs the orb provides).

Ipothetic scenario: server A is leading wth 150k points, server B is at 130k, server C is at 120K.

Server A holds all 3 orbs so neither server A nor B nor C get buffs. But then server B gains one orb, having buffs AND a +10’000 points. Now server A has 150k points, server B has 140k points AND buffs and server C has 120k points. Server C has no point in trying to steal the orb from Server B, since B is not leading AND has the buffs AND C would not get those 10’000 points. So B and C still focus on A.

This is both balanced (because the winning server gets NO advantages neither from holding nor from stealing an orb – it only doesn’t let the other 2 servers have the buffs) and funny, since the winning server (which often has a +50k lead) can never be too sure of winning the matchup.

This is a great idea. Not necessarily the 10 K points but the idea of the leading server not getting any buffs but only the other servers. It encourages attacking the stronger server – exactly what should be happening.

Even if the orbs aren’t brought back WvW needs something like this to encourage the weaker servers to attack the stronger.

Darn, when I saw the little red bubble next to the thread I thought Devon had come in here and said the orbs were coming back.

I don’t understand why they’re easy to hack. But then I don’t understand how people hack anything in a game.

No way. The only reward there should be is for the weaker servers ganging up on the strong server and kicking their kitten.

ahn.9271:

- Siege is necessary, but there needs to be some way for the vastly outnumbered server to be able to get siege up in the first place. It’s nice to have an outmanned buff, but when you’ve got 10 people trying to take a tower and they’ve got 50+ defending, it’s tough to get even a small foothold. Maybe outmanned buff can carry with it a reduced supply-per-siege-item buff as well… how does 30%-50% less supply sound? Further, we are up against a server that has so many WvWers that they have up to a 3 hour wait to get into WvW. If they have that many people on the map and that many waiting to get in (and we have 0 wait), they should have an easier time refreshing siege. Conversely, when a disadvantaged server spends all their time and effort gaining a foothold and then moves on to a battle of attrition at another point on the map, it is difficult to have people break off to refresh siege – every able-bodied person counts… Perhaps the outmanned buff or the disparity between one server’s score and another server’s score or the number of people in queue should have an effect on siege refreshment?

Whole post was good but this one specifically. I don’t think I’ve seen this suggestion before and I believe its one of the best one’s ever.

I know its hard for the higher tier servers to understand but getting enough siege while undermanned is hard as is keeping it refreshed. This would make it immesurably easier and more enjoyable to play as undermanned.

I actually am open to anything tonight. I like being the underdog but after two tough but great (especially the current one) matches here on SBI, I’d even be happy with a relaxed match where I could level my alts.

Deso appears to be doing well, why all the negativity?

Just because of this thread, I’m going to play my Ranger tonight.

Oh, and my Engi. And she’s never dies to retaliation and she’s only level 35!

Jackie.1829:

Drakh.3128:

A number 3 server barely scratched out a win vs #9 and #10. Sure sounds to me like Jade was way over or Piken and Augury were under rated. Also realize that after months of stale match-ups, the top tier servers were absorbing all of the rating. It’s going to take some time to spread it back around. If a #3 server squares up against much lower servers, they should be crushing them, not just barely edging by. Seems to be working just find to me.

Yea we lost by like 30k points vs the r3 server on AR, and we are now paired with the r18 and r20 server, holding 3 keeps on home BL servers with both enemy servers going out manned in 10 minutes when they couldnt take anything of us.

Sure some match ups can have unexpected results but the ones that are silly like the current one AR is playing shouldnt even be possible.

Im already bored and its only been 1h.

At least you shouldn’t have to worry about the arrowcarts in this match

Kerithlan.1659:

Neuromancer.2148:

Here’s a crazy idea for blowout matches: focused 2v1.

Not always realistic.

50 players plus 70 players is still less than one third of 400 players. That’s the type of situation we’re seeing in some tiers this week.

I have to agree it is not always realistic at all times of the day. And I know it is frustrating. But it is absolutley realistic and it works at certain times and on certain maps.

In your example, the server with 400 people are not going to get them all on one map. Anet won’t say what the actual numbers are but it seems to be around 100 or less. So in your example, the server with 400 people can only get 100 (say even its 130) on a map. Whereas the other two servers combined population is 120. You’re not going to win, you’re not going to conquer the entire map. But that is plenty for you all to at least have fun and have good fights.

I don’t have a problem with thieves any more. But that doesn’t mean I like them.

I think the reason you see all these anti-thief posts is because theives are annoying. Kind of like gnats or mosquitoes. Its not hard to kill a gnat or mosquito but people hate them nonetheless.

Well I sure hope that gapping doesn’t happen because then you will see me in fact start to QQ

A server should be able to face sometimes servers above it and sometimes below it. Anet will have to make another adjustment if the gapping occurs.

I don’t give a rat’s pattoote about ratings. Any gap like that would bad, very bad.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Superior ACs were already a bit too good before the damage buff and the traits. Adding +80% damage together with the traits was just insanity. Together with the 2nd WXP trait the total damage increase is roughly +125% or about 2.25x bigger damage.
The 4th AC trait seems to increase the radius by 50%, thus giving 2.25 x larger area as well, which is way too big. Now imagine any weapon skill of the game buffed so much. Of course it would be broken.

This is the source of the problem and the reason there is disagreement about the power of AC’s and whether the buff was good or bad.

Superior AC’s are the problem. Remove all superior siege from the game and you will see the complaining go away on both sides.

Yeah all three servers and everyone coming out to play deserves a salute – so here’s to ya! This has been a great match and hard fighting everywhere.

My only complaint in this match is that I have to go to sleep too ealry so that I can wake up and go to work the next morning and I can’t play as much as I want.

I’m a proponent of a matchmaking system different from the original. I’ve also said that servers need to be put into matches within a range around their own level.

It does appear that the variance is too large right now. I’m also not sure what Anet means when they say the ratings need to fix themselves. The ratings are pretty much a good measure of a servers level. If we bring them closer together and then lower the variance won’t that just have the same effect the we have now – further apart ratings and higher variance?

In NA, I think without SoR and maybe BG at the top; an without FC and ET at the bottom the matchmaking would be a lot easier. These servers are just too big of outliers to make using the ratings a good matchmaking system.

What was my point? Oh yeah, new system is better than old but the variance needs to be tuned down sooner rather than later.

It really depends on what you want to do and how you like to play. I didn’t like War and Thief at all. Never tried Necro.

I play a Mes, Ranger, Ele, Guard and Engi.

My favories are Ranger, Engi and Guard. I know there’s a lot of Ranger hate out there but Ranger is so fun to play. I mean who doesn’t like shooting bows and arrows? Throw in at trap build and you are helpful in a larger group. Do BM and you can take on anyone.

No way, rangers are great. And fun too.

But if you’re getting slaughtered with a guardian I’m not sure what’s going to help, they’re one of the toughest. A ranged profession could help.

But here’s your problem, no profession is going to help with this :

“Usually I go Braveheart and start running at them and then I realize no one else was actually coming with me”

Check out the Tech Support forum too. There are tons of posts about computer specs. That’s what helped me build my new computer.

AC’s are worthless agains a golem rush now.

I agree about the range being too much but the damage is fine.

yanoch.7051:

After testing the range I decided I would keep AC mastery and get the last tier with the refund. The idea of that skill is great but 60 sec cooldown?!? Is it me or it is weak for something that cost 25 point?

There is very little info about it…

What has a 60 sec cooldown? That may make the difference in my choice. Heck in 60 sec the golems might be through the gate lol.