Guild Wars 2

Moshari.8570:

Kal Spiro.9745:

ZilentNight.5089:

The patch notes actually came after the Dev post, it was not at the same time.
I will be holding my found belongings till I am told by a Dev otherwise.

Yes, you are correct. BUT, the dev post about not junking your blade shards came before both of those things. So… yeah, do what you want, it makes no difference to me.

I apologize in advance Kal, because I actually like you…you at least try to make sound arguments and have legitimate complaints about what could happen.

But if it really didn’t make any difference to you….why are you fighting against bringing the vendors back in every thread that mentions it?

I’m not, actually. I’m just pointing out what has been said, what I think about it, and what I expect to be the result of it. When the discussions started the insistence was that they should bring them back to make up for something they did wrong. I don’t think they did anything wrong, and so I see no reason for them to make amends for it. At this point my argument isn’t so much that they shouldn’t but that they won’t regardless of what anyone here thinks. Other than that I just point out statements and arguments that I think are wrong and why.

Effectively this is the one argument that interests me enough to stay active in

WhimsicalPacifist.2943:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Where is this large amount of players. I don’t see them. I just see a couple people who can’t let things go.

((Seriously, the Forums is only a small representation (highly opinionated/biased portion) of the general population. The largest debacle was Ascended Gear to which this current kitten-storm (yes, a storm of cute kittens) is as a shower to a hurricane. Neither should the user stories of customers be shrugged off; they have qualitative feedback that Anet should consider when designing the next LS portion.))

Welcome to the conversation. If you were following it, you’d already know how well aware everyone partaking of this debacle is of that very fact. But the portions divvy out. The point is, only a handful of the small population of those that come to the forums care enough to grumble about the situation. That small portion translates to an equally small portion of the total population. Still leaving us with an insignificant subset of the population, bellow notice.

Ponku.7925:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

why shouldn’t we ask for ANET to at least put these into that merchant that has not yet arrived….I have yet to see a valid reason other than “it sets a bad precedent” to what?

Because the people that found out they had inventory slots with items that are now worthless and deleted them. How is it fair to them all of a sudden? I get it, you are in the “It is all about me and what I want,” mindset. If they bring the vendors back I guarantee you there will be a thread similar to this but it will be, “I was told they were junk so I deleted them.”

Your going to stick with this argument until you die aren’t you.

Yes because it is a very valid argument. If they bring the vendors back people that deleted items based on the fact that the items are now junk would be unhappy. Think about it for a minute. I guarantee you many people have deleted those items once they learned they were worthless.

I don’t quote the rest of your stuff because it is all a bunch of numbers about thread read counts and speculation based on that. None of which negates the fact that people may have deleted these items based on learning they were useless. You have made it very clear that your point of view is what is most important and the impact it might have on others is not important to you.

You just proved his point that you are not reading his posts..
Your argument is not as valid as arguments about bringing vendors back. Very few ppl just deleted the items now, and also now we have large amunt of players angry at ANet for making a mistake by removing vendors so soon and another mistake for not communicating it good enough. Bringing vendors back would correct that mistake, while it would not create another one, It will create a few ppl that would be angry that they listened to ANet and deleted their belongings. So it’s either left their mistake and have a lot of players angry, or correct that mistake and have only a little bunch of players angry.

Where is this large amount of players. I don’t see them. I just see a couple people who can’t let things go.

Directly referencing Mordy aside, I think I would have enjoyed that one better. After all the crap Scarlet put us through I felt it very anti climactic for her to limp away and be in a downed state when I got to her. If that’s all it took I should have been able to defeat her back during the Jubilee. Getting the chance to actually get in a fight with her with Kasmeer and having a character die would have been better. All the dialogue made a lot more sense too.

Having Braham explain things to Taimi seemed a little backwards, though. I much preferred Rox’s attitude toward the legions, being a gladium and Rytlock in that one, though. This whole, Rytlock could kill me, blah blah blah, that we actually got was dumb and a very poor representation of the character.

They made a big fuss about being willing to kill a character if it would work, but then when they had the opportunity to do just that they waffled and didn’t do it. That’s not impressive.

DarcShriek.5829:

I think it’s good Scarlet didn’t get to explain. I think it’s good that there are so many unanswered questions. Life doesn’t answer all our questions. Also, all these questions give us something to talk about.

They also said, though, that they were going to sum the whole thing up, which means answering the big questions. They didn’t do that, which was uncool.

You do understand that not just people who actually read the post are aware of things that happen, right? One person reads the post, then they go ingame, then someone inevitably asks in Map chat about whatever random thing, and wouldn’t you know someone is available to answer. Now everyone in map chat is aware of this, and can spread it to the next map when the next person inevitably asks as well.

This is why they gave it a week to disseminate, and why the item about karma was redacted. This is also why the argument is completely valid, and why your math is way off.

Moshari.8570:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Which they don’t do lightly. I know you’ve pointed out a handful of times where reality and statement haven’t entirely meshed, but could you name one time in which they flipped on something they specifically stated would be a thing, within a single month of that statement being made?

Fine, there are a lot to choose from: off the top of my head: “Karma jugs can no longer be used with Karma Multipliers” was a post made in the forums right before a patch…it was also included in the patch notes (much better communication than this last time)….the very next patch (2 weeks later). “Karma jugs can once more be used with Karma multipliers for the next 2 weeks at which point this ability will be removed once more.” Or how about “PVP Levels are being removed in the upcoming patch” followed about 2 weeks later with “After recieving a huge response from our players, we have decided to leave PVP levels as they are.” or..lets see, something more recent….how about “Gift of Battle now requires level 14 in WvW” followed by after complaints by players we have decided to forgoe this change and have re-set it so that you do not need level 14 in WvW….followed by “Gift of Battle now requires level 14 in WvW” in the most recent patch.

I commend you for your diligence.

So, we have one instance in which their announcement was not given enough time to percolate. So they tacked on some time because, unlike this announcement a full week before the patch, they felt we didn’t have sufficient forewarning.

Then two instances of overwhelming response by the community, of which this cannot be compared in any way.

Again, not a thing they do lightly. This particular issue, though, would be considered pretty light.

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Again, we will call him Player Bob. Player Bob logs in Tuesday after a few days off and sees the vendors are gone. He looks into it and sees an official message stating that these items are now just taking up inventory space. Not happy because maybe he didn’t know in advance he goes ahead and deletes these items as per the message saying they are now worthless.

Now say Anet brings the vendors back. Player Bob was told those items were useless so he deleted them. How do you think he will feel now? He might be angry because he deleted items he was told were now junk and suddenly they are not junk anymore. So how do you please Player Bob and all the others like him that did the same based on information provided by Anet?

Arguing communication issues is one thing. However, this is a case that what is done is done. There really isn’t a way to fix it because doing something to appease the, “But I didn’t know,” crowd will in turn bring about anger from other players that followed the information provided from Anet saying the items are now junk. They logged in found out Anet said they are garbage items and deleted them.

This argument is old:

I’ve got another old argument for you, since you seem to like to cherry pick what you’re respond to. You never took the bait on this one, I wonder if you will now

Kal Spiro.9745:

Moshari.8570:

in case ANET changes their mind.

Which they don’t do lightly. I know you’ve pointed out a handful of times where reality and statement haven’t entirely meshed, but could you name one time in which they flipped on something they specifically stated would be a thing, within a single month of that statement being made?

Moshari.8570:

So as you say 5-6 people are keeping this thread alive…but even we do not represent even a tiny fraction of the player base

This is why statistics are hard. We do represent the population. Our representation is so low, though, as to not be worth noting. The resulting solution is, this isn’t a big enough problem to worry about.

mtpelion.4562:

Right. You, and I both know how to use the forum because we are part of the well-informed minority of players who use the forum regularly.

The problem is that there is nothing in game that would have triggered the majority of players to go onto the forums and then go onto the News section in order to find that information.

ArenaNet provided the information, but they did not do it in a way that:
A. Alerts any meaningful portion of the playerbase to the posting of the information and
B. Informs any meaningful portion of the playerbase to the location of that information.

ArenaNet has previously admitted that they are bad at communicating this kind of information. While I’m glad that they are making the effort to at least get it out there (whereas before they just didn’t say anything at all), I’m also pointing out that they still have a LOT of room to improve and I’m offering a helpful suggestion as to how.

This has been the extent of my “constructive criticism” on this topic.

Mostly I don’t like supporting the potential results of changing the situation.

-increased effort to inform the lazy. Making ANet put in effort and manpower to reproduce information because people can’t be bothered to put in a minimum effort.

-succumbing to the youthful need for instant gratification. Having to literally shove it in our faces because a subsection can’t step back and actually seek information on their own.

-add clutter. Filling up my mailbox with junk, cluttering the front page, blasting my phone with social media announcements, again because people can’t just look at the forums.

I’m a fan of very tough love, and strict teaching. I’m rigid and I don’t bend easily, but nor do I break. If it was good enough for me when I was a kid I see no reason it shouldn’t still be good enough now. Just go to the kitten ed forum, or lose out.

Mystic.5934:

I see they posted it in the same spot where they spam billing maintenance notices.
You would think “News and Announcements” would be a good thing to read when it’s not greyed out, and you’d be wrong. 90% of posts there are about not being able to buy gems for 2 hours on such-and-such day. I stopped read anything from there around october.

And that is why you have an inventory full of junk.

Atherakhia.4086:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chrispy.5641:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

No you’re right. Expectations for…anything related to the Ranger is lower than dinosaur bones right now, but, I would still say that the amount of complaining without even knowing how the skill will work yet is approaching critical mass, and its been barely a day.

While I do like to see the skills before I judge them, is there a reason we should expect the trait to not work exactly as worded? To simply increase the travel speed of longbow projectiles and nothing more?

A 30pt trait that not only works on a single weapon, but really only will have any noticeable impact on a single skill of said weapon?

It will work on 4 skills. AA, obviously. Rapid fire will get to the target faster, which is probably good. Hunter’s Shot should stealth us faster, which is meh. Point Blank Shot might actually knock the target back faster, potentially cutting half a second off their down time, so that’s actually detrimental to us. So that +1 +1 +0 -1 leaving us with only a +1, so I guess evens out to one skill.

Now I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and I’m not trying to troll you or anything. But lets look at these skills honestly for a moment.

I will start off by saying that you’re right. The trait will obviously affect all of the skills. I’m questioning if it’s useful for any of them.

Rapid Fire: At max range, this skill isn’t worth using because it’s not a real damage increase. At anything but max range, is sidestepping an issue for this skill? I’d argue it’s not. It’s not much of an issue for auto attack either.

Hunter’s Shot: This is another skill that isn’t really used at max range. It’s a defensive skill used to escape a melee already on you 9 times out of 10.

Point Blank Shot: Again, more of a defensive skill that you should be using to knock people back who are close.

Barrage: This one is likely not going to have any real impact from the trait at all.

Like I said, you’re absolutely right… each skill will benefit from it. But do you really need the trait for any of these? I’d argue no.

I was actually making a joke more than an argument. It really serves very little purpose nor use as you were saying. That’s why I rated the changes at the end. I still think it should be at least somewhat more useful than not for rapid fire, but that’s really it.

ZilentNight.5089:

No one is asking you to change nor any care is given on my end regarding heedless opinions. Anet is always listening and reading forums – That is the idea behind forums.
It is a channel for players to communicate to the devs and vice versa, it should only contain discussions and concerns about various topics. Which is the whole point of this thread.
Announcements that affect time sensitive in-game content should be relayed in-game via the login page or through mass-mail system present once again “in-game.”

And again you misunderstand. The way it is, is what isn’t going to change. The way it is being that if you want to learn about relevant information about the game you’re playing you have to go to the forums. It actually works just fine, regardless of the handful of people who fall prey to ignorance.

As for ANet, you’re right, they do read posts and threads. This one, though, is dead. There are only about five people keeping this thread alive. ANet has already gotten all the information they’re ever going to get out of this. The information they got was: a handful of people didn’t read the announcement and are upset, but it’s a tiny populations and not worth the effort to appease. They can be ignored, easily, without hurting the game in any way. This is what will happen, and why ANet is NOT listening.

The only thing that is left for this thread, only 6 pages in, is for name calling and mud slinging to commence and for it to be closed by a mod, who is not a dev, but is a red name.

Mystic.5934:

I do read the forums, read the news, etc.
I never saw any notice about the heirloom vendors going away.
you should put notices of this nature in the game where more than 100 people will actually see them.
I’m going to go actively look for this notice. I’m curious how long it will take me – and I’ll be looking for it, not just happen to stumble upon it. If I don’t come back, send out a search party!

Well, I just found it, took literally three seconds, because it was one second per click. I clicked on forum. I clicked on News and Announcements. I clicked on the very first post after the stickied posts, without even reading it. And wouldn’t you know, that was the one. Really hard to find. That’s rough.

Atherakhia.4086:

Chrispy.5641:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

No you’re right. Expectations for…anything related to the Ranger is lower than dinosaur bones right now, but, I would still say that the amount of complaining without even knowing how the skill will work yet is approaching critical mass, and its been barely a day.

While I do like to see the skills before I judge them, is there a reason we should expect the trait to not work exactly as worded? To simply increase the travel speed of longbow projectiles and nothing more?

A 30pt trait that not only works on a single weapon, but really only will have any noticeable impact on a single skill of said weapon?

It will work on 4 skills. AA, obviously. Rapid fire will get to the target faster, which is probably good. Hunter’s Shot should stealth us faster, which is meh. Point Blank Shot might actually knock the target back faster, potentially cutting half a second off their down time, so that’s actually detrimental to us. So that +1 +1 +0 -1 leaving us with only a +1, so I guess evens out to one skill.

ZilentNight.5089:

Kal Spiro.9745:

ZilentNight.5089:

Forums are not mandatory, most players don’t have the time to go outside the game and read various threads and hunt for relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.

All communication should be done in game specially information that is so time sensitive. I am sure it has been mentioned a ton of times even by Devs that an extremely small minority checks these forums.
Disregarding the above fact or disagreeing with the it, doesn’t make it untrue.

How is taking five seconds to click on the News and Announcement forum on the Monday before a patch to see if there is a new post “Hunting Down” information?

Using the forums is mandatory IF you want to be informed. If you are unwilling to go to the forums you obviously do not want to be informed. If you do not want to be informed then you have no one to blame but yourself for being uninformed.

ANet has done their due diligence. Your entire argument is invalid, and that is what makes it untrue, not my disagreement, nor my disregarding it.

Did you bother reading my statement?
The announcement about trading Belongings was made more than a week into the patch, I clearly mention that when i stated, “relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.”

If information was posted in the patch notes itself then yes I would agree that its posted consistently at the same time and no surprises come along the way that can lead to a major loss for many players.

So its not the question about whether players want to be informed or not, the method of communication is being questions here. There is no point arguing something you are not comprehending.

Yes, and it is STILL THERE. Therefore, anyone who bothered to take five whole seconds to poke their nose into the News and Announcements forum (the forum where you should go FIRST when looking for important information pertaining to the game) on the Monday before the patch would have found it immediately and known what was there.

That is not hunting down random bits of information. That is spending the minimum amount of time going to the most obvious place on the forums to find information about anything that might be important to know just before a game changing patch. This is not an unreasonable effort to expend, and all that was necessary for anyone who actually cared.

Anyone who did not do this did not care, and too bad for them. Now, before you ask again, yes, I read that entire post. This one I ignored completely because I’m done with this. You don’t get it, and I don’t care. This is the way it is, and it’s not going to change. Nor is there any reason for it to change. ANet is not listening.

Yeah, I don’t care about April Fools jokes, I want SAB World 3. Give me SAB twice a year, I’ll be happy.

ZilentNight.5089:

Forums are not mandatory, most players don’t have the time to go outside the game and read various threads and hunt for relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.

All communication should be done in game specially information that is so time sensitive. I am sure it has been mentioned a ton of times even by Devs that an extremely small minority checks these forums.
Disregarding the above fact or disagreeing with the it, doesn’t make it untrue.

How is taking five seconds to click on the News and Announcement forum on the Monday before a patch to see if there is a new post “Hunting Down” information?

Using the forums is mandatory IF you want to be informed. If you are unwilling to go to the forums you obviously do not want to be informed. If you do not want to be informed then you have no one to blame but yourself for being uninformed.

ANet has done their due diligence. Your entire argument is invalid, and that is what makes it untrue, not my disagreement, nor my disregarding it.

ZilentNight.5089:

The patch notes actually came after the Dev post, it was not at the same time.
I will be holding my found belongings till I am told by a Dev otherwise.

Yes, you are correct. BUT, the dev post about not junking your blade shards came before both of those things. So… yeah, do what you want, it makes no difference to me.

Moshari.8570:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Antaris.5281:

Kumu Honua.2751:

But it’s NOT buried.

It’s the very first post in the News and Announcements section. Under the stickies of course.

You people keep saying that. What IS buried is the post about keeping your blade shards as there will be a future use for them. That is an example of actual terrible communication by Anet.

You like GW2 forum, congratulation. Yet you keep ignoring the fact that forum activities are NOT mandatory for GW2 players.

Forums are indeed helpful, offer strategies, discussions, and player interactions, all sorts of good things. But here is the thing: THAT particular post, is NOT linked from anywhere, despite the importance of it.

Not launcher (personally I read it), not front page where it always have links to release notes, not facebook, not twitter, not YouTube, not google+ (heck, it even has a PvP glory phasing-out reminder posted on March 17), not LS Atlas. Only a post that forum frequent visitor will notice.

You’re wrong. Forum use IS mandatory if you want to be informed. This is the case with every MMO that has ever existed and probably will ever exist. If you want to know what is going on you HAVE to go to the forums. If you are unwilling to go to the forums then you are choosing to be uninformed and your choice is not a shield for your ignorance. Therefore if you lose anything for that choice it is your fault and no one else’s.

No. Forum use is not mandatory, or you would have 3 million page views on the forum…there are more than 20,000 players on all the servers combined world-wide. Forum use is not mandatory…

If they are trying to make it mandatory…that is a different story…and then maybe they should put an in-game message explaining where the forums are (I have friends who after a year of playing didn’t even know there WERE official forums)…as well as how to use them. They have in-game links to the support page. Put an in-game link to the forum announcements…and then when they post a forum announcement put an exclamation mark on that…which then tells people to click the link….which then gives them the announcement…. At that point…the forums become mandatory.

No, it just means that the majority of players are willfully ignorant. I’ll assume you’re not a long term MMO player, and that many of them also are not. If you were you would already know this. Disregarding it, or disagreeing with it, doesn’t make it untrue.

I have no Vitality and lots of Healing Power and am very hard to kill, so I say HP. Of course if I could give up some of my toughness for Vitality I would definitely do that.

Chrispy.5641:

This is one of those wait and see things for me. If you are really going to complain about the fact that we have to choose which longbow traits to take, you should consider that Engineers are forced to do that with their Rifles already.

You have to also consider that there might be other changes coming to the Ranger as well. Signet changes, changes to the longbow’s skills, etc.

I’m not defending Anet’s design decisions or anything, because I freaking hate them sometimes too. But I am saying that the reaction to this may be a little over the top.

It may be over the top, but after a year and a half of being handed a pile of dog doo and being told it’s a shiny new car, AND that I should be happy about it, I think it’s somewhat reasonable to have low expectations of their treatment of our chosen class.

Antaris.5281:

Kumu Honua.2751:

But it’s NOT buried.

It’s the very first post in the News and Announcements section. Under the stickies of course.

You people keep saying that. What IS buried is the post about keeping your blade shards as there will be a future use for them. That is an example of actual terrible communication by Anet.

You like GW2 forum, congratulation. Yet you keep ignoring the fact that forum activities are NOT mandatory for GW2 players.

Forums are indeed helpful, offer strategies, discussions, and player interactions, all sorts of good things. But here is the thing: THAT particular post, is NOT linked from anywhere, despite the importance of it.

Not launcher (personally I read it), not front page where it always have links to release notes, not facebook, not twitter, not YouTube, not google+ (heck, it even has a PvP glory phasing-out reminder posted on March 17), not LS Atlas. Only a post that forum frequent visitor will notice.

You’re wrong. Forum use IS mandatory if you want to be informed. This is the case with every MMO that has ever existed and probably will ever exist. If you want to know what is going on you HAVE to go to the forums. If you are unwilling to go to the forums then you are choosing to be uninformed and your choice is not a shield for your ignorance. Therefore if you lose anything for that choice it is your fault and no one else’s.

There is no comprehensive list. Also there is a clump of dead, but also missing, with even less information. So who knows. There are definitely more than just the lighthouse keeper, though.

Moshari.8570:

in case ANET changes their mind.

Which they don’t do lightly. I know you’ve pointed out a handful of times where reality and statement haven’t entirely meshed, but could you name one time in which they flipped on something they specifically stated would be a thing, within a single month of that statement being made?

Moshari.8570:

If you read the official forums, why would you have deleted your items? Wouldn’t you have USED your items….that’s a silly argument…I mean seriously…the people complaining are because they didn’t read it and didn’t get a chance to use them…and you are arguing that someone who read it wouldn’t have used them either…and would have deleted them instead?

While I do like the concept behind the argument I really haven’t been able to get behind it because this is true. I have four belongings still in my inventory because that’s all that was left after I spent the rest and there is nothing I could do with 4 anyway. Anyone who actually got the message shouldn’t have anything that would make a difference.

Moshari.8570:

They love to point out this post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Alliance-Supplies-Found-Items/first#post3750166

it is from a week prior, and is the only announcement that ANET made saying the vendors are leaving…

It does indeed exist…but our argument is that almost no one saw it….particularly those that do not come to the forums.

This however I’m totally behind. A thread in the News forum. It is not ANet’s fault if people don’t care to actually go to the one place where anyone should expect to find News. They gave fair warning. Anyone who missed it only has themselves to blame. This has been a thing for as long as there have been MMOs. If you want to know what’s going on in your MMO, you go to the News forum.

I honestly feel the cutscene was a major waste of effort. They should have just said the breachmaker blew up after you got off it and that’s why it looks like that now. This served no purpose.

I was really happy about this. Laranthir’s entire existence and dialogue was ANet’s answer to all the people asking, “Why isn’t the Pact here defending LA.”

I rather hope so.

ZilentNight.5089:

Do not delete yet, regardless of what was posted prior.

Please read the following from the patch notes:

“Rumors tell of a merchant interested in items from major events in Tyria’s recent history, including Blade Shards. Players are encouraged to hold on to these items if they are interested in trading with her when she appears.”

Okay to re-emphasize, focus on the part where it reads “including Blade Shards” which clearly means this npc will accept other items you may have acquired or accumulated so hang on tight.
However, if this NPC fails to provide a trade for the found belongings then yes you and I will truly be out of luck.

Which was announced at the same time as the above. They said junk your found belongings but don’t junk your blade shards. So, take that as you will, but don’t read into it what isn’t there.

Where they put it, when they put it there.

If they wanted us to just know they would have told us, or made it obvious.

They do, but they also do what they say they will do. They specifically said that the vendor was going and to use them before the patch or they’re junk. I would follow their instructions, but whatever.

paynesgrey.8932:

Kal Spiro.9745:

paynesgrey.8932:

What would it cost you, or any other player, for them to correct this?

Irrelevant. Policy is policy.

I’m not even getting into the rest of this. That is their policy, that is what they’re working with. It is their chosen direction. It doesn’t matter how easy or hard it would be. It doesn’t matter if it hurts or helps anyone. They made the decision and you don’t like it, but you don’t make their policy, so that really doesn’t matter.

So your saying that folks should meekly swallow any policy that comes along, rather than point out that the policy is flawed.

The Policy is Eternal! The Policy must never be questioned!

Corpse runs and huge time travel times were Sony Policy, and Policy is not to be addressed or corrected.

That worked out pretty well… until WoW came along and said “Hey, our Policy isn’t to make you waste all that time.” How’d that work out for EQ?

Companies that don’t adapt their policy when they see that it is needlessly aggravating customers end up on the Darwin Express sooner or later.

I notice you still haven’t explained how amending this policy would impact your… or anyone else’s game experience, save perhaps for those who feel some sort of distress at seeing Policy amended to suit the needs of as many players as possible.

No, I’m saying what you want doesn’t matter because it’s not your decision to make, and that whether you think ANet should listen to you or not also doesn’t matter for the same reason.

That’s all. Fume and complain. Go for it. It won’t change anything because the ones whose decision it is to make are not impressed by this kind of outcry. This has been proven time and again. I’m tired of trying to debate the worth of the choice, because it really doesn’t effect me. I spent all my stuff on Sunday in anticipation of Tuesday. I’m just telling you how it actually is, just like I told the Fractal complainers before you.

In a month no one will even remember this was a thing, and so ANet really doesn’t care.

paynesgrey.8932:

What would it cost you, or any other player, for them to correct this?

Irrelevant. Policy is policy.

I’m not even getting into the rest of this. That is their policy, that is what they’re working with. It is their chosen direction. It doesn’t matter how easy or hard it would be. It doesn’t matter if it hurts or helps anyone. They made the decision and you don’t like it, but you don’t make their policy, so that really doesn’t matter.

paynesgrey.8932:

Your analogy doesn’t quite fly. This isn’t “missing out a sale” so much as it is something like discontinuing a popular exchange or warranty policy, with the only notice being a single obscure blurb in a corner of the store’s webpage.

As for “It’s not good policy” to satisfy customers, I call bunk. They have an opportunity to recognize and fix a mistake in a way which takes absolutely nothing from the other customers who happened to check that obscure post on an obscure page to find out the was going to be suddenly and unexpectedly ended for no good reason.

Honestly, your argument reminds me of those Sony fans back in the old EQ days who got upset whenever people complained on the forums. “Don’t give in to the complainers! People like corpse runs and level-losses!”

Kal Spiro.9745:

paynesgrey.8932:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Ponku.7925:

CrossedHorse.4261:

OK, so some people missed the announcement, even though there WAS an announcement giving at least 6 days’ notice. That’s fine – we can’t catch everything that goes up on the forums, and we don’t always read the launcher text screen stuff.

BUT, that doesn’t take away from the fact that ANet did give us fair warning.

Now, as to the matter of whether it would harm anyone to bring the merchants back for a couple of days. Of course it wouldn’t. Makes no difference to the people who did turn in their stuff on time, and does make a difference to those who didn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. How many people will miss the extra two days of these merchants, for instance? Quite a few? And then how many of them will complain “but you brought it back for some, but I missed the announcement, bring them back again!” It will get ridiculous. And while they’re at it, we may as well ask them to bring back every limited time item ever and just make them all permanent because that way nobody ever has to miss out on anything ever again.

Yes, I’m exaggerating the end point, but it’s a slippery slope in that direction. And if it’s unfair that people missed out once, then it’s unfair people missed out twice etc. I missed Kasmeer’s staff skin in the gem store and waited and WAITED for it to come back. It did, one sale day in the gem store this month. Guess what? I didn’t play for two days that week and totally missed it. There wasn’t an official announcement, etc. So, I missed it again. Was I annoyed? For sure. But do I blame ANet? Of course not.

ANet shouldn’t bring back vendors because ppl are complaining, but because removing them as soon as event ended was a mistake on their side. And by that i dont think it qualifies for slippery slope you described.

No, it wouldn’t, if they left them there a few days after the event ended. But that isn’t actually what this thread is about. This is about bringing them back once they’ve gone because people missed the announcement. If they did this, yes, it would be the beginning of a slippery slope.

A slippery slope to correcting mistakes and providing good customer service? Might as well never patch or re-balance anything in response to players pointing out that it was screwed up.

It is neither a mistake, nor bad customer service to do what they did. It is their design policy. Nothing more. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Whether anyone lost anything as a result is irrelevant.

If a store is having a sale for a week and only announced it in one flier, which incidentally is readily available at the stores website which can also be accessed at a kiosk in the store itself, but you didn’t see it and missed it, so you couldn’t get the thing you wanted, would you demand they give you the sale price after the end of the sale? Would you continue to demand it after the cashier explained that it was over? Would you only be satisfied when you’ve bullied a manager into giving you the sale price even though you really don’t deserve it because it’s no longer running?

Do you know why he gives in? It’s not good customer service. It’s store policy to acquiesce to belligerent customers.

Good customer service is to be nice courteous and helpful. It is to try to get customers what they want within policy. It is not to just give customers whatever they want whenever they want. If something is discontinued it is discontinued. It is not bad customer service to not announce it, which this was anyway, nor to not make it available anyway after the fact. It would be bad customer service to not let anyone know if they happened to ask, but since they did that’s covered.

It may be a nuisance, but it is not a mistake, nor bad customer service.

There is no difference. You knew the patch was coming. You knew there was a chance that you could lose out on your stuff. You should have known that zoning after the announcement causes you to go patch.

As such you should have already spent what you could beforehand and been prepared to lose out on whatever you picked up afterward. Still not ANet’s problem.

I watched it on YouTube, it’s actually more disappointing than not seeing it at all.

As has been stated in other threads, you missed it. They server no purpose and never will again. You should have spent them at any time before yesterday. You didn’t so junk them.

paynesgrey.8932:

CrossedHorse.4261:

Ponku.7925:

CrossedHorse.4261:

OK, so some people missed the announcement, even though there WAS an announcement giving at least 6 days’ notice. That’s fine – we can’t catch everything that goes up on the forums, and we don’t always read the launcher text screen stuff.

BUT, that doesn’t take away from the fact that ANet did give us fair warning.

Now, as to the matter of whether it would harm anyone to bring the merchants back for a couple of days. Of course it wouldn’t. Makes no difference to the people who did turn in their stuff on time, and does make a difference to those who didn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. How many people will miss the extra two days of these merchants, for instance? Quite a few? And then how many of them will complain “but you brought it back for some, but I missed the announcement, bring them back again!” It will get ridiculous. And while they’re at it, we may as well ask them to bring back every limited time item ever and just make them all permanent because that way nobody ever has to miss out on anything ever again.

Yes, I’m exaggerating the end point, but it’s a slippery slope in that direction. And if it’s unfair that people missed out once, then it’s unfair people missed out twice etc. I missed Kasmeer’s staff skin in the gem store and waited and WAITED for it to come back. It did, one sale day in the gem store this month. Guess what? I didn’t play for two days that week and totally missed it. There wasn’t an official announcement, etc. So, I missed it again. Was I annoyed? For sure. But do I blame ANet? Of course not.

ANet shouldn’t bring back vendors because ppl are complaining, but because removing them as soon as event ended was a mistake on their side. And by that i dont think it qualifies for slippery slope you described.

No, it wouldn’t, if they left them there a few days after the event ended. But that isn’t actually what this thread is about. This is about bringing them back once they’ve gone because people missed the announcement. If they did this, yes, it would be the beginning of a slippery slope.

A slippery slope to correcting mistakes and providing good customer service? Might as well never patch or re-balance anything in response to players pointing out that it was screwed up.

It is neither a mistake, nor bad customer service to do what they did. It is their design policy. Nothing more. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Whether anyone lost anything as a result is irrelevant.

If a store is having a sale for a week and only announced it in one flier, which incidentally is readily available at the stores website which can also be accessed at a kiosk in the store itself, but you didn’t see it and missed it, so you couldn’t get the thing you wanted, would you demand they give you the sale price after the end of the sale? Would you continue to demand it after the cashier explained that it was over? Would you only be satisfied when you’ve bullied a manager into giving you the sale price even though you really don’t deserve it because it’s no longer running?

Do you know why he gives in? It’s not good customer service. It’s store policy to acquiesce to belligerent customers.

Ponku.7925:

CrossedHorse.4261:

OK, so some people missed the announcement, even though there WAS an announcement giving at least 6 days’ notice. That’s fine – we can’t catch everything that goes up on the forums, and we don’t always read the launcher text screen stuff.

BUT, that doesn’t take away from the fact that ANet did give us fair warning.

Now, as to the matter of whether it would harm anyone to bring the merchants back for a couple of days. Of course it wouldn’t. Makes no difference to the people who did turn in their stuff on time, and does make a difference to those who didn’t. But it’s a slippery slope. How many people will miss the extra two days of these merchants, for instance? Quite a few? And then how many of them will complain “but you brought it back for some, but I missed the announcement, bring them back again!” It will get ridiculous. And while they’re at it, we may as well ask them to bring back every limited time item ever and just make them all permanent because that way nobody ever has to miss out on anything ever again.

Yes, I’m exaggerating the end point, but it’s a slippery slope in that direction. And if it’s unfair that people missed out once, then it’s unfair people missed out twice etc. I missed Kasmeer’s staff skin in the gem store and waited and WAITED for it to come back. It did, one sale day in the gem store this month. Guess what? I didn’t play for two days that week and totally missed it. There wasn’t an official announcement, etc. So, I missed it again. Was I annoyed? For sure. But do I blame ANet? Of course not.

ANet shouldn’t bring back vendors because ppl are complaining, but because removing them as soon as event ended was a mistake on their side. And by that i dont think it qualifies for slippery slope you described.

It does. They’re not doing it the way you think they should be doing it. They’re doing it the way they think they should be doing it. You want them to acquiesce to your way of thinking. They haven’t done it in the past, but if they do then why not all those other times? Why not bring those others backs. It’s exactly the same thing.

Just a point of advice, never play Neverwinter. It’s an alright game, but they will introduce a random new currency for a weekend, and then immediately remove the vendor for it at the end without question.

This is nothing.

Out of curiosity, if you have a value in excess of the most expensive item available, what is the point of holding onto it. You’re going to spend it on something, so why are you not doing so?

I was pretty annoyed at Belinda’s random intrusion into the story. She didn’t fit the setting and just felt out of place, until she said where she was going. Then she became a ham fisted introduction to Season 2. Obviously something will happen to her and be our launching point into why we’re going into Maguuma.

Antaris.5281:

Let’s sum up the situation:

- ANet did inform the players that the merchants will be removed—on a single forum post. Not website front page announcement, not game loader announcement, not in-game letters, not Living-Story release page, not twitter, not facebook. One single forum post that only forum-goers may notice.

The website front page and the game loader are the same thing. And are never used for this purpose. Maybe they could be, but I personally would rather not have to wade through all the minor little updates in order to find that actual relevant news items, especially when that’s what the forums are for.

Twitter and Facebook should never be used for this kind of information, but then I don’t think they should be used for any kind of anything. So maybe I’m biased.

I don’t know what the Living-Story release page is supposed to indicate.

That leaves one single forum post in the news and announcements section of the forums, which if no other is used by average people this one should, especially coming on the end of an event, and a mail. Mail doesn’t make sense either, because the mail is used for things that have happened and are happening right then, not for things that will happen some time in the future. That’s why there are the forums. So, that leaves one post in the most obvious place, and is therefore the best choice.

- The Found belongings and heirlooms have already stopped dropping, and the exchanged items are mostly account-bound, therefore not lower the value of said items.

Other than a small handful they’re also basically junk items and not worth the effort to worry about.

- There are no major consequences for ANet to re-implement the merchants, other than a group of players feel that it is unfair to ignore their enthusiasm and constant attention on every single ANet communication.

Other than a small handful of people who failed to acquire some insignificant items of little actual worth. The value of restoring it doesn’t match the actual need for the restoration. I don’t understand your “consequence.” Should I say a small number of players feel that it is unfair that they should put in the smallest amount of effort to keep themselves informed because ANet does actually communicate these things?

- There are already at least 4 threads about this subject matter, signifying that quite a number of players suffer from this communication problem.

Am I missing anything?

And there are at least 5 threads, current and killed about AFK, and as many threads about “loss of equity” on Fractals. ANet handily ignored all of those too, for the same reason. An insignificant population of the game, complaining about an insignificant injury to their play, that no one will even care about, if they remember at all, in a month.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That would make sense, if there was a mistake to begin with.

There was.

It just wasn’t ANet’s mistake, and should not be their responsibility to fix.

Calys Teneb.7015:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Cool! I just got this in-game mail saying that my points in WvW had been refunded! I didn’t have to check the forum or anything! I just got informed in a helpful way that something had happened that affects my character. Wasn’t that nice? Whodathunk?

To be fair, this kind of outrage would have been magnified on a scale of thousands because the WvW points affects a larger player base and has more of an investment.

Just saying.

In the interest of “fairness” there was no reason to send a mail about WvW points, because it actually doesn’t effect your character in a meaningful way.

Yes you could go out and not have your point set and be at some disadvantage at whatever the thing is your points were set on, but you didn’t lose your points. If you didn’t know about it, because for some reason you don’t bother to read patch notes, you would realize that your seem to be doing less well than expected. You would check to see what bonuses you should be getting from your points and then also notice that your points are unspent. The alternative is that you wouldn’t even notice that there was a difference, then you would earn a point, go to spend it and realize you have all these other points to spend as well. In none of these scenarios did the refund really make a difference short of being something that happened.

The only true statement is that people would have complained about it, and probably ARE complaining about it anyway. They’re not complaining about the note, they’re complaining about the fact that now they have to figure out how their points were spent and respend them, or some other such nonsense.

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

I visit the forum almost every other day, and I also missed this announcement. I still don’t know where it was??? It definitely wasn’t obvious. So I am sitting on 8 stacks of found belongings with nothing to do with them.

Right here ‘News and Announcements’:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Alliance-Supplies-Found-Items/

yup, that would explain it, rarely if ever read that part unless something is “down”..

That’s your problem and mistake.

Moshari.8570:

Maybe they need to standardize on their communication?

Yeah, like maybe putting things in the forum called, ‘News and Announcements’. Wait they did that.

Find me where they told people to keep their blade shards in “news and announcements” oh wait, they didn’t….which was my point. Maybe you need to read my post before getting snarky.

Nope, your right, they didn’t tell people to keep their blade shards in News and Announcements, that one was a response to a thread on this forum called What to do with Blade Shards. In the same thread they linked the announcement about Heirlooms and Belongings, so both of them did exist on this forum.

On top of that, they’re REALLY easy to find, all you have to do it check the handful of threads with red markings, then scroll down real fast until you find the posts with red markings. It would take maybe five minutes.

mtpelion.4562:

Kal Spiro.9745:

mtpelion.4562:

I would just like to state that the removal of things from the game should always be announced at least a week in advance on the GW2 launcher.

Personally, I check the forums all the time because I know how bad ArenaNet is with announcements, but you can’t fault new players for not knowing that yet.

I don’t fault new players for not knowing that. I just don’t think ANet should have to fix it for them just because they don’t.

My point is that in the same amount of time it took them to post it on the forums, they could have posted it on the news feed in the GW2 launcher and would have ensured that every one of their players had the news delivered to them (even if the players chose to ignore it, they couldn’t argue that they weren’t told).

The news feed on the launcher is the same as the news feed on the main site, which is the same as the news that is RSSed. This is not the sort of information they should be putting there. Sorry that it’s so important to a handful of people, but it’s not actually news.

Perhaps they will be slipped in later. ANet likes to do that.

mtpelion.4562:

I would just like to state that the removal of things from the game should always be announced at least a week in advance on the GW2 launcher.

Personally, I check the forums all the time because I know how bad ArenaNet is with announcements, but you can’t fault new players for not knowing that yet.

I don’t fault new players for not knowing that. I just don’t think ANet should have to fix it for them just because they don’t.

Tseikk.9032:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Tseikk.9032:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Tseikk.9032:

@justTrogdor I was waiting to buy leveling tomes with them. I did not buy them yet, because i wasn’t sure if i will spend real money to buy a character slot or not.

So what were you going to do with them if you decided not to spend them on tomes?

naturally buy some of the other stuff available, such as obsidian shards

None of those things were available with Heirlooms.

You could buy alliance supply bags with heirlooms, those award belongings which you could have used to get for example obsidian shards.

True, but this thread is about Heirlooms, and if everything you wanted was from belongings you would have already spent your Heirlooms on bags. Just like I did.

Lindbur.2537:

Kal Spiro.9745:

So they should send out an obtrusive out of character mail ingame, or worse come up with some lore designed mail, each time they want to convey information, or else patch the game, when they can just announce it here. It’s not like Dev messages are obscure. It’s REAL easy to figure out which ones they are, cause it’s all splattered with red.

No, if someone won’t learn a certain way, then they don’t need to learn and they DO need to miss out. Too bad for them.

Good thing you’re not a teacher, you’d get fired in a second.

Good thing ANet isn’t a school so they don’t have to worry about nonsense like that.