Guild Wars 2

Eluveitie.1290:

Chrispy.5641:

You mean the ship that Kiel stole from us players after we went through all that hard work fighting through the Aetherblade Retreat while she just watched us, doing nothing?

This logic is getting old and bothersome to read.

We’re not the protagonists in Tyria. We’ve certain degree of importance and recognition, but that’s about it.

I’m going to quote another game here, that pretty much sums up who we are in Tyria:

“A good roadie knows his whole job is to make someone else look good. Keep someone else safe. Help someone else do what they were put here to do.

A good roadie stays out of the spot light. If he’s doing his job right you don’t even know he’s there. Once in awhile he might step on stage just to fix a problem, to set something right. But then before you even realize he was there, or what he did, he’s gone."

Posting this because it’s fitting. My words, from another topic.

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship? How would he/she crew it, maintain it, fund it? What is your characters backstory that allows them to be able to operate an Airship fluidly without crashing into a hill?

Why should the Lionguard just let a random Adventurer (admittedly one who helped them, and might be part of the officer level of the Pact) waltz away with an airship? The Aetherblades attacked LA, it’s part of their attack. Lionguard taking it gives LA an airship as well as lets them scour it for any information or clues that might be onboard. All in all, the “SHE STOLE MY AIRSHIP. I FOUGHT THROUGH IT, SHOULD BE MINE!” comes across and childish whining and temper tantum.

Also, lets say your character would make an issue of it. Who would help him/her fly the airship out of LA against the Lionguard? They could dogpile your character and toss him in a cell. Or simply go “Hey, that guy waltzed off with an Airship, if he walks through the gate he is to be arrested on sight.”

Chrispy.5641:

If I were Evon, I would go hire as many mercenaries as my infinite pool of money can buy, and go crush the Lionguard, and anyone else who thinks they have the power to control me.
(and on that note, I’ll go kill Ellen Kiel for Free. All Evon has to do is ask! That Airship she ‘owns’ is supposed to be mine! I was the one who fought tooth and nail through the Aetherblade Retreat, while Anet’s darling Kiel stood there wide eyed and did nothing to help me and my comrades while we got cannonballs shot in our face!)

Yes, that’d just make everybody want to live in LA after it is retaken. “Hey guys, yeah I just slaughtered the Lionguard and their leadership, now I’m going back to Ascalon and building my own little town.” It’d make Evon possibly just as wanted as Scarlet, as it’d be mass murder by itself, and all the races respect the Lionguard. Not to mention all the former citizens of LA going “WTF” about it.

I never got to do the Aetherblade retreat mini-dungeon sadly, but tell me, WHAT would your character do with an airship? How would he/she crew it, maintain it, fund it? What is your characters backstory that allows them to be able to operate an Airship fluidly without crashing into a hill?

Why should the Lionguard just let a random Adventurer (admittedly one who helped them, and might be part of the officer level of the Pact) waltz away with an airship? The Aetherblades attacked LA, it’s part of their attack. Lionguard taking it gives LA an airship as well as lets them scour it for any information or clues that might be onboard. All in all, the “SHE STOLE MY AIRSHIP. I FOUGHT THROUGH IT, SHOULD BE MINE!” comes across and childish whining and temper tantum.

Also, lets say your character would make an issue of it. Who would help him/her fly the airship out of LA against the Lionguard? They could dogpile your character and toss him in a cell. Or simply go “Hey, that guy waltzed off with an Airship, if he walks through the gate he is to be arrested on sight.” A modern example is say, somebody attacks the Police, and you help the police fight through them and stop them from getting away. Those thieves had an armored car/sports car/fancy vehicle sitting there, and suddenly you just get in and drive off. Are the police going to go “Oh, that’s fine, he totally helped us so much!” nope.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Even the races that do care about Lion’s Arch aren’t doing anything. Why should the tengu?

Do note that the NPC’s state Scarlet basically took the entire city in under an hour(it ranges if anything from under an hour to under a day). If you wanted to view it say, the players arrive at the camp 1 day later, that’s hardly time for anything BEYOND setting up the camps (which the orders got set up kitten quick) and the Seraph/Queen sending the balloons to help transport between the camps.

Not to mention each race DOES have their own issues/fights in their borders, they can’t just yoink a massive army from the frontlines and send them away. ALSO the fact Norn don’t HAVE an army, so they’d have to spread out and tell various lodges/hunting camps about this new threat and hope they want to pitch in.

http://i.imgur.com/X5Eer6h.jpg

I think that’s enough evidence of how much he cares about LA. Ditching citizens and a captain of the council purely to safeguard his merchandise and shutting down the gate thus trapping them in LA and forcing them to run to another exit.

Lol, for those who say Evon is such a great guy who would have defended LA way bettter.

http://i.imgur.com/X5Eer6h.jpg

Literally ditches citizens and a captain in the council PURELY to safeguard his merchandise.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Doesn’t help that this happens in Lion’s Arch. Good thing the Vigil gave him the whole ultimatum.

Lionguard* actually, but thank you for posting that.

Such a great guy, ditches citizens and a captain of the council purely to save his merchandise and nothing else.

Two things, the Aetherblade JP in Gendarren fields is still there and manned, but the airship has left. (floating crates remain that were on it’s deck)

However, I randomly got teleported from that ‘control room’ area to Bad omen beach, where I noticed there IS an airship parked over the water. Unmarked, so it must be Pact or Lionguard.

Fairly sure you could get a bunch of your charr and Asura buddies to park their wagons around town. Wagons covered but having AA guns on them.

Aka, basically like the engineer ability to set up a mortar. Though still, yeah, either way it’s stonewalled by politics.

Inelastic.1430:

I doubt the outcome would have been different if Kiel lost. Gnashblade would probably be hiding somewhere complaining about how the Liongaurd screwed everything up while Kiel would be doing her best with very little impact.

Exactly, he’d be dealing with the same stonewalling Kiel did.

I don’t call Evon a villian. He’s shady, but not evil. However, he is HARDLY the paragon people seem to be making him (and Kiel is hardly the evil human likewise). People acting as if Evon would’ve done such a better job are fooling themselves. He’d deal with the exact same stonewalling Kiel did.

Who was he telling? He told the player ONLY if they talked to him a bit (wasn’t the first thing he said). He never was shown to wander the city talking about the threat or go to the council.

Can we truly say he warned them, or that it may be more of a plow for popular support/ruin Kiel and Magnus by bashing them and acting as if he had been telling them all along to fortify the city?

The Spiral King.2483:

Nick.6972:

Races will seek new allies, and Tengu will help.

Yeah, the Tengu definitely helped me by one shot me when I was fighting a veteran while scouring LA for the rubble piles. I totally want the help of a bunch of xenophobic kittens who indiscriminately murder whoever gets close to them.

Xenophobic? No.

Protecting their borders and keeping everybody away from the wall that MAY be placing explosives? yes.

That high up (assuming firing from the top, or even middle), you wouldn’t really tell if that charr or human running toward the wall is an aetherblade or adventurer.

Well, there is apparently an eyepatch item coming out. It’s in the PVP locker to be previewed.

Magnus’s eyepatch (left or right, has both).

Then why do other merchants and caravan people feel like he is going to purposefully drive them out of business and ruin their profits?

Likewise, it interests me. One thing I’d love to see is the “Personal Story” tab having dates on the missions. Aka, first mission “March 3rd, 1325.” etc. So people know exactly how long it took to kill Zhaitan or whatnot.

Kal Spiro.9745:

… Also the simple fact giant forces are not that easy to suddenly mobilize and relocate. Considering how Scarlet attacked the city and took it within an hour, there was also next to no warning.

Yeah, when you have portal technology at your disposal mobilizing is super hard. Just look at Scarlet who did just that. She can mobilize enough troops to instantly terrorize an entire zone at a moments notice, cause she has portals. It’s too bad we don’t have some kind of cheap and effective way to move around at a moments notice too…

Wait a second, I remember some guy told me about these things when I first started. They’re a common thing, that the Pact themselves even place for special insertion. They’re called Waypoints. Presumably, since a random NPC told me about them random NPCs could actually use them. And even if not we will have the main portals to each of the Order bases.

I’ll accept the Pact not being able to appear the instant Scarlet arrives, but they should be able to make the trek to Lion’s Arch of all places faster than they could to battle Jormag.

And we have never seen waypoints used for large groups of npcs, or things like wagons or supplies. The gates between Fort trinity and the orders are not that huge, nor the area beyond the gates huge enough to ferry massive amounts of supplies quickly.

Random npcs could use them, but as shown by many escort missions, it seems it’s cheaper to simply walk. Or as noted, it might be more effective to transport supplies and materials by wagon then waypoint.

Even then there is recalling troops to fort Trinity from surrounding areas, making sure they are healed, rested, and supplied before heading out. Then you have to balance numbers transferred back vs numbers needed to continue ‘mop up’ operations and safeguard researchers in Orr from Risen (or prevent Risen from entrenching and expanding even if their numbers are slowly dwindling).

The Portals Scarlet uses seem to be different then portals like waypoints or Asura gates. Still, a quick deployment would hing on the Pact having a large number of soldiers just sitting around Fort Trinity doing nothing, instead of actively working to take out Risen forces across Orr and in other areas. (Like Tequatl, claw of Jormag, Shatterer, etc.) Recalling airships from all across Orr would take a while as well.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Kalavier.1097:

What do Charr do when confronted by a leader who is doing stupid kitten? They stand up and (sometimes) end up killing that person. They don’t bow down to an idiotic person directly above them. They most certainly don’t go “Well, that person beat me, so I’m just going to sit here suspecting an impending attack but do absolutely nothing to prepare myself or anybody else for it.”

Unfortunately, other than by the Charr, if he did what Charr do he’d have been look down on even more, and probably arrested because he would have just broken Kiel in half and possibly eaten her. At the same time, that’s a sub section of Charr. Blood legion will just kill them, Iron and Ash won’t necessarily.

You must’ve missed the point that Charr don’t eat Sentient races. They just make that joke to SCARE people.

And what I meant was more of a “He’d stand up, he shout and make it public knowledge, he’d work to make sure the city had good defenses. Not pace back and forth kittening about Kiel and doing nothing. And then after the attack, doing nothing but kittening more at Kiel.”

Jocksy.3415:

The timeline only states

1325 AE Guild Wars 2 story begins.
1326 AE Guild Wars 2 Living World begins.
1327 AE Present day during Guild Wars 2 and the continuation of the Living World.

The fact the GW2 story begins does not means it all happens in the past…

And wiki is fan-generated content; it does not come from developpers or any Anet staff…
I can create a Wiki page that says anything that comes in my mind, it won’t make it true…

Personal story begins. I have heard that a developer explicitly said the PACT is in rebuilding and planning phase as of living story timeframe. How can they be if they haven’t killed Zhaitan yet?

BobbyStein.2315:

DragoTheWise.7256:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Because members of Destiny’s Edge are so entwined with your Personal Story as well as the over-arching story with Zhaitan, and because the Living World plot lines are taking place at the same time all those other story threads, we couldn’t have the members of Destiny’s Edge splitting themselves between these other areas and what was going on with Living World. This is partly why we introduced these new characters.

I hope you folks are seriously not considering the LS is happening at the same time as the Personal Story, and this is just a slip up on the post. I also would hope that everyone on the team can get this stuff straight so that this confusion doesn’t happen.

What Regina means is that for players who are currently going through their Personal Story, the LW timeline will seem to be happening at the same time. Technically, they happen at different times in Tyrian history. Personal Story predates the current Living World season by approximately one year.

So when you’re playing your Personal Story and are in an instance with Rytlock, etc. the assumption is that this is happening “in the past” whereas LW events are happening now.

Our hope is to provide better distinction of these timelines within the game, but that would come with the release of a planned feature that we’re not ready to discuss in depth just yet.

Dev post. Personal story predates living story by AT LEAST one year.

Elricht Kaltwind.8796:

Palador.2170:

At the risk of being coldhearted, I have to ask: Why should he?

Your post basically illustrates why. Someone who is deserving of a leadership position should care about the common good of the people who entrust him. This shows that he cares more about himself than the good of the people of Lion’s Arch and that makes him a terrible potential leader. A good leader is always someone who genuinely cares about the people, whether he is in a position of leadership over them, or he isn’t.

Exactly what I’ve been saying and thinking. He’s using this for himself, nothing more. He could give a rat’s kitten about LA or anybody in it as long as he isn’t making money(Making money, then he cares so much as the profit margin is). The other merchants know this. One in bloodtide (I’ve said it before) outright goes “Watch Evon use this to drive EVERYBODY else out of business”.

Miroe.2054:

Claw is an island that blocks LA form the sea. Any regular invasion would have to pass there. Scarlet came from above so she doesn’t has to deal with it. Airships are still a relatively new invention.

This. Even a ground invasion would completely bypass Claw Island and possibly even Fort Mariner.

An air attack can come from literally any direction, and based on the cutscene (and random twitter feeds in an incharacter viewpoint), the Aetherblades stayed at pretty high up levels and dove downward into LA, bypassing any type of defense.

Kal Spiro.9745:

DragoTheWise.7256:

And the Aetherblade airships are far superior. I believe that the Pact airship fleet would have to step in. Hopefully, we will see that in the next patch. I would think the Glory of Tyria would make a return to do battle.

There’s a point. What exactly has the Pact been doing for the past year? All three of their head quarters are on the cusp of a major siege. They have instant portal access to Fort Trinity. Zaitan is “dead”, so Orr is supposedly just mop up. The combined might of the Pact was enough to take on a city at least three times the size of LA and Zaitan was way scarier than a big drill. They should make short work of Scarlet and all her nonsense.

Rebuilding forces, planning next campaign against the dragon, and continuing to clean up Orr.

“Mop up” is an UNDERSTATEMENT. You are dealing with a nations worth of undead at LEAST, most likely closer to two with all the Risen Zhaitan had gained from awakening onward. Plus who knows how many dragon champions left over that they’d have to keep airships around to deal with. Also the simple fact giant forces are not that easy to suddenly mobilize and relocate. Considering how Scarlet attacked the city and took it within an hour, there was also next to no warning. The Pact couldn’t park an army there beforehand (because of mobilization time and/or travel time for airships and tanks) and if they had, it may have gotten heavily damaged and driven to retreat by the sudden attack.

The three orders (which now basically are the back) each run the camps for refugees, they are helping the city out as much as they can.

Palador.2170:

Nah. He would have laughed. Gloated for a moment or two. And then, he would have gotten to work and found a way to sell them what they wanted and make a profit out of it.

Note the first thing he asks afterwards is if Kiel is dead. If she had asked, he would have said no. That’s the first thing he also said about being told to supply the lionguard “Ha, what if I say no and just leave you all hanging?”

I would also point out that Magnus is the head of the Lionguard, and Kiel works under him. It’s their JOB to be in there fighting. More than anyone else, this failure is on their heads.

Nope, the council stonewalled the push for more defenses, it’s on their heads. Still, Evon would have a better image if he was publicly helping the lionguard with supplies
and working to help get people out of the city, which he isn’t.

As for when Kiel’s stolen credit? Some players (including myself) feel she’s stolen the credit for our actions in the second Southsun story arc. She also failed her job of head of security during the Dragon Bash festival, resulting in the death of one of the Council. She then somehow managed to get credit for the players and Marjory’s work in dealing with the Aetherblades after that, and wound up getting the seat left open by the very assassination that she failed to stop.

Unsure on first, as for second, it as an Ambush in a way nobody expected.

She got the man to medics and safety ASAP, and he died later as I recall. She did her job as well as she could. At that time Marjory was investigating the deaths and the player was helping her, and both were keeping on the low notice.

Never did the Aetherblade mini-dungeon so I can’t truly comment on that.

Either way, Evon would have stronger selling points if he had actually TRIED instead of sitting there kittening. What do Charr do when confronted by a leader who is doing stupid kitten? They stand up and (sometimes) end up killing that person. They don’t bow down to an idiotic person directly above them. They most certainly don’t go “Well, that person beat me, so I’m just going to sit here suspecting an impending attack but do absolutely nothing to prepare myself or anybody else for it.”

PookieDaWombat.6209:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Psst, technically its not happening in the past. Its all happening at the same time.

Granted, it does feel a lil goofy, but their only other option was completely re-doing the whole thing, which means getting voice actors to re-do lines possibly in a new setting, and yeah…just not worth the actual money and time to re-do that content. Go with it.

Huh… it’s been confirmed like 100 times that the personal story takes place 1 year before the current LS.

OP report this as a bug, it can’t possibly be intended, not even Anet is that lazy.

Not trying to be a pain, but where was that stated? i honestly have not seen it written anywhere, just that the 2 are overlapping.

It’s in the official timeline. Personal story starts, one year later living story starts, a year after that we have current timeframe for personal story events.

(Basically, everything before the marionette fight IIRC takes place ‘last year’ in lore, marionette oneward = current year, and personal story events started and ending two years ago from current date).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

CorneliusCoffin.3169:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Riot Inducer.8964:

Kiel was stonewalled by the rest of the council, no AA defenses ever got built. If Evon was on the council it would have been the same outcome.

Except Evon could have just built them himself and said kitten off to the Council. Or just thrown his realistic political clout around and made them listen. Threaten politicians with major financial situations and they have a tendency to back down.

If he could, then why didn’t he do so?

He’s a Charr. They’re vindictive. That’s what everyone gets for not electing him like they should.

Well smart move. Played out really well for him, cosnidering he’s now under direct orders of the lion’s guard, possibly facing execution. Top-strategist that Gnashblade. Almost makes you wonder how he did not end up on the captain’s council.

Yep. Brilliant move on his part. “I WARNED THEM ALL ABOUT IT!”
random npc: “then how come I only saw you pacing about your businessplace kittening about Kiel winning the election?”

^ Cause that’s pretty much exactly what happened.

Palador.2170:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Palador.2170:

Because they chose Kiel. Why should he spend his money only to have them take the credit for it? (And let’s be honest, Kiel would take the credit for it. She’s done it before.)

So you’re saving that Evon is selfish and only cares about glory. It’s good to see that you’ve finally come around to Kiel’s side on this! Fortunately, she’s principled and is making Evon help even when he doesn’t want to, so perhaps there’s still some hope for Lion’s Arch in the end.

She’s forcing him to help. Note that at NO point did she ever try… you know… ASKING him to help.

And why are they basically robbing Evon when one of the Captains’ Council boasted that she’s pretty much the richest person in the world? It was the Council’s failure to listen to Kiel that lead to this, so it’s somehow fair that Evon pays for it?

Based on the dialogue, he’d have told her to kitten off and go away. Because you see, he’s sitting there badmouthing Kiel and Magnus, while those two are in the city actually fighting/helping plan to retake LA.

He at no point mentions helping the lionguard retake the city, and outright objects to being told to supply the lionguard. Look at what he says to the Asura when she walks up… “Shouldn’t you be failing somewhere else?” He cares nothing for anybody but himself.

As for the actual topic of air defense, Kiel was trying to convince the council to reinforce the air defenses and fortify the city more, but got stonewalled as the majority of councilmembers didn’t believe Scarlet would attack again so soon.

edit: Like I said elsewhere, when has Kiel stolen credit from the player? I don’t recall this ever happening in what I’ve seen.

Palador.2170:

Kiel’s shown that she’ll gladly take credit for other people’s actions. Evon would have to be nuts to spend his own resources trying to prepare Lion’s Arch for the attack, knowing that it would be seen as a victory for Kiel in the end and he’d be forgotten. There’s something to be said for letting them fail and face the blame. Unfortunately, Kiel’s now drafted Evon, and is basically robbing him under threat of execution and confiscation of not only his own wealth, but everything in the trading posts. And she’s taking not just his money, but also anything she wants from the market. So, that sword or helm you’re trying to sell? Hers now. He coughs it up if asked for, or he’s executed.

I very much doubt that Kiel or the Captains’ Council will be willing to pay him back for any of it (much less all of it) when this is all over. I also wonder how well YOUR characters would take it if they were told they have to give up their wealth to Lion’s Arch or be executed, just because the leaders of the city were so chronically stupid.

When has Kiel taken credit from the players? I’ve done every living story and I don’t recall seeing that once.

Instead of acting as if this is a vendetta against Evon, why not view it in the sense of retaking LA. Again, if he was so awesome, why isn’t he going about how they did nothing to prepare, but here he is, outfitting the Lionguard and other soldiers freely and of his own accord, doing his part to help retake the city.

Instead he’s sitting there kittening and whining.

Riot Inducer.8964:

I don’t think you can really blame Evon for not doing more to bolster LA’s defenses. To upgrade any defenses he’d have to go through the council and seeing as how Kiel, a member of the council, couldn’t even convince them it was a good idea, Evon probably wouldn’t even be given an audience. Plus he’s still rather bitter about the election and probably just doesn’t want much to do with the council these days.

It’s a shame Kiel is antagonizing Evon with this conscription business, despite their history they seem to be playing the part of “only sane man” in regards to the rest of the council. I think if they were both on the council LA would be a lot better off.

He could’ve been wandering the streets warning the citizens, telling them to arm themselves and be prepared incase an attack came. Instead he paced around his business musing and whining about Kiel winning the election. Not once was he publicly shown to speak out toward the Council that I saw.

It’s only antagonizing given how he basically came across as refusing to help the lionguard retake the city and seemed more then happy to sit in his corner, badmouth and whine about Kiel and Magnus, and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING productive.

All in all, Kiel is actually out there doing something with Magnus, Evon is sitting around whining.

In terms of politics, who looks better? The person out there wading the muck to help with cleaning the rivers, or the person who sits on the shoreline going on and on about “He warned them this would happen. kitten idiots never listened to me!” but otherwise doing nothing.

Also the fact in the election set, Evon goes to the massive piles of gold and loot, he keeps them for himself. Kiel sees them, she sends it back to LA to be returned to the rightful owners.

Overall, this kitten is blamed on the council refusing to listen. Even then, Evon isn’t doing much to actually help out.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Back pieces are universal, they don’t have armor type requirements. The idea was obviously just to make it as accessible as possible to crafters.

Oh, well if that’s the case, I feel bad for those who didn’t take the time to level all their Crafting to 500. But at least now that some mat prices are falling, it’s a good time to start.

Besides weapon ones, I’m looking at using a crafting guide to get everything up to 400 at least. Tailoring I may take to 500 purely to get an ascended armor for fractal runs.

Actually, may level weapon ones as well, just cooking is the one I don’t care for.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

zamalek.2154:

Sort of, but at the same time quite far off, what actually happened: shoot bits off of him, wait until he lands on a tower, commence fireworks. A ground battle (instead of fireworks) would have been quite some fun.

Because hacking at Zhaitan’s cuticles to damage him sounds like so much fun.

I think fights like The Shatterer is dull enough when your blade only reaches the ankle, and you need ranged weaponry to reach something more vital. But with Zhaitan, who’s easily over 4 times the size? Yeah…

A ground battle against a wall that can lift itself off the ground would be more entertaining… or rather, the same thing, if not easier.

Just reminded me of “PVD! PVD!” (player vs door!) from WvW that some people would shout.

Realistically, Zhaitan’s size, if we go with dragon scales being tougher with age, your sword would do a grand total of nothing. Likewise, in say WvW, realistically a group of soldiers hammering into a keep gate with axes and swords are going to do… NOTHING.

People want “EPIC BATTLE!” but something the size of Zhaitan? Who can be comparable to being similar size/bigger then some scifi starships? There is no way he wouldn’t be brought down without heavy firepower, aka siege weaponry or airships.

The airship is most likely almost exactly similar to the one you can explore in Fort Trinity.

Nilkemia.8507:

Yeah, except that Evon also apparently guessed the attack would come and did nothing to help prepare for it, not even secretly or on his own. He’s also not wasting any time badmouthing her and Magnus in particular over it while they’re trying to at least do something about the refugees.

Still…the Council’s to blame for not preparing more adequately in the end.

This. He is badmouthing them, using the disaster for his own gain. You talk to a survivor in the bloodtide coast camp and he outright says “Watch, Evon Gnashblade will use this to drive everybody else out of business.”

Yeah, if you talked to him before he mentioned LA was weak and it’s defenses need reinforced, but outside of that you NEVER saw him doing anything. Kiel on the other hand, was trying to convince the Council to bolster the defenses for a while, especially after the investigations. Even after the Council went “Ha ha, Scarlet won’t attack us so soon!” Kiel worked to do what she could.

As said, Kiel is out there fighting (She uses her airship to evac Canach and the Sheriff), Evon is whining and badmouthing her in Vigil Keep. Ingame I saw somebody go “He’d have protected LA, he’d be fighting.” and I instantly went to reply with “Nope, he’d be out here sipping Tea in safety.”

Evon has ALWAYS been a bit suspicious to me, not to the point of evil but he’s putting himself first over everybody else. If he truly was so awesome, he wouldn’t be grumbling about ‘being robbed blind’ and instead be donating those weapons and armor willingly.

Heard ingame somebody calling Kiel trashy and more fitting for human activist groups, but they never once actually gave reason for thinking that.

edit: Even him agreeing to give Heal-o-tron the upgraded chassis and projector comes off as a “I’m doing this for me. This might impress/get notice from the council, so yeah we can figure this out.”

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

I’ve maxed Tailor, Leatherworking and Armoursmithing. I could choose which Gift to buy, but I have another concern above what’s involved to craft it. If I’m making this back piece for a light-armoured character, do I need to buy the Tailor version, or will any of these do?

I’ve never seen a backpiece be dependent upon the armour the player is designed to wear; a backpiece has always been just that.

This is a valid question I think. It’s something I was curious about as well.

On subject of refugees, has anybody been able to spot the Skritt couple? The one where the female Skritt tells the male to stay with her where it’s safe instead of going into the sewers?

Idummo why, but I actually wanna know what happened to those two.

According to a Q&A I just read, the factions are all working with her because they are in it for the endgame reward

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You set the stage on the creature’s back, and drive swords into its eyes while avoiding the hundreds of snaping Tequatl-sized heads.

That is, if you avoid the whole “get eaten and kill from within” idea. Which wouldn’t work with Elder Dragons because, you know, they corrupt what they eat.

Or players get assigned to different airship and you go all siege golem against it.

GW2, despite seeing people kitten about ’vehicle things being done in WoW and badly", has the chance for vehicle usage. Siege golem/siege weapon style stuff already exists, just put that on airships, boats, subs, helicopters, charr tanks…

Well, didn’t mean to appear as being offended or something. Just meant to say I don’t really see how some could get chlore from claw o_O.

Really it just drives home the point. “How do you really make an epic boss battle between something 500 meters long, and some humans/slightly larger races?”

Got the size for a normal airship maybe? Thanks for that information!

Zhaitan is just 150 meters (give or take) smaller then a Galaxy class starship from star trek.

Holy kitten he’s huge. I don’t even want to know the original’s size if his head and neck are 500 meters or so o_o.

And considering how he might be one of the smaller ones (I’m going with Primordus being naturally small due to being an undreground dragon)… ouch.

Still wanna see Drakkar in GW2!

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Elricht Kaltwind.8796:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Elricht Kaltwind.8796:

Uh, I assume you’re referring to Chlore Island?

No, they mean Claw Island.
Do you perhaps play the game in a different language?

I played it in whatever language Trahearne speaks.

You mean English. Yes I can see how someone who is used to speaking American might not be able to understand :P

I’m American I don’t think I’ve heard her Trahearne say Claw island like that lol.

LA is very, very poorly defended. It’s defense before against the Risen was simply Claw Island stalling the attack/defeating the attack.

Once they get within the ‘borders’ (aka, the LA ingame region), it’s IMPOSSIBLE to contain an enemy. They literally can spread out very fast, and turn it into a nightmare to kick them out.

Lutinz.6915:

Infact many of the core emotional issues Logan has been struggling with in his narrative have been tied to that. Just say ‘oh, he was being mind controlled the whole time’ would make that really superficial. The whole point of his actions at the end of Edge of Destiny was that there was no good choice for him, only bad choices. He either abandoned his friends and save Jennah or stay with is friends and let Jennah die. Either way he was screwed and would have failed someone.

GASP, somebody who actually understands that he had two very bad options. And frankly, in a way, he chose the better of the two as it lead to solid peace between bulk of charr and bulk of humans.

Argon.1563:

Warning: Very bad and very approximate maths incoming.

Im a Charr player, and the tallest size a charr can be is approximately 6ft 10, lets round that to 7ft, and if I had to estimate, I would guess Tequatl is about 10-15 full size charrs long. Meaning Teq is approximately 70ft long.

From the image that Konig posted about the size comparison between Zhaitan and Teq, I suppose Zhaitan is around 4 Tequatls long, meaning Zhaitain would be 280ft long. Pretty long.

However, official lore states Kralkatorrik is 1000ft long, lore also states Glint was 20x smaller then Kralkatorrik, meaning she was around 50ft, similar to Teq, which for a Dragon Champion, sounds about right, considering Teq, The Shatterer and Claw of Jormag are around the same size, give or take a few feet, maybe a dozen or two.

So yes, Zhaitan is like, not even 1/3 the size of Kralkatorrik. Pretty small in comparison.

Fairly sure that Charr are more closer to the 8-10+ range. IIRC, it’s stated they are on average taller by about half of an average human’s height. (So, take average human, add half their height, you get a charr.) I use the kodan in LA as a comparison (as Kodan are 10 foot tall). My Norn guardian (max height, female) standing next to him is slightly taller. My charr (I forget the height slider, but she seems fairly average to other charr npcs) was roughly the same height.

Vyko.6953:

Zhaitan is very, very huge. I ripped dragon models (with textures) from gw2.dat and animated them in Cinema 4D; that picture of Tequatl’s and Zhaitan’s size on wiki is my render. If you guys want more renders of Zhaitan in comparison with other dragons (or with an airship we are fighting on with Zhaitan), you can tell me.

That model is really beautiful. Its really a pity that we cant see Zhaitan very well in the game. After his death, they could make an instance where we can walk on him or something like that, that would be wonderful

BTW: the model’s wingspan on wiki render is 446 metres. In comparison, model of human from game data is 190cm tall, The Bifrost is 205 cm tall and an asura is 124 cm tall (4 ft.) (from wiki: “an asura is usually about four feet tall”), so it sounds like its a real size.

I’d love to see Tequatl compared to the other dragon champions (claw of Jormag and Shatterer) if possible. And would you be able to figure out his ‘proper’ height/length/width (including wingspan and just body)? It’d be kinda useful in my dragon based AU fanfic. As well as like airship size/Tequatl compared to airship.

On subject of Zhaitain, I think he originally looked like the concept art. However, he got beat by the other dragons repeatedly (leading to grafting other dragon champs onto him), so he went from the cutscene of a normalish dragon look, to slowly (over a super long period of time) what he was ingame. You can kinda get a feel/implication that he used to have more of a solid body/hind end, but now it’s just his spine/major bones and wings to support flight.

SirMoogie.9263:

Vol.7601:

I think it’s pretty obvious that the open world is locked in time except when the map involves the Living Story.

Except that they do a good job of structuring many of the events in a way that they can exist at anytime, repeat, and still make sense. For example. the Skritt are always capable of stealing beer from a Norn moot. There is nothing lore wise that prevents this from being an activity that must occur once and only once. Centaurs can find new leaders, rebuild their toppled walls, and wage a fight another day. Nothing lorewise prevents this from being a repeatable event either. Dynamic events have a good structure in place for making an online world feel organic (i.e., not frozen in time). I don’t think they always achieve this, but they have the power to. Where it appears to be locked in time is where lore can use some tidying up. For example in the Campaign against Taidha Covington, I wouldn’t have the objective being to kill her (unless they renamed her to “Pirate Captain”, there can always be a new pirate captain). Instead it should be her capture, with subsequent events where her crew mates try to free her and re-fortify the fortress. The event returns to the state where the players must capture her again.

That’d actually be a neat idea for the world bosses that can’t be explained as easily (The dragons fit this, same with shadow behemoth. I suppose the inquest golem/mega destroyer as well… lol)

DarcShriek.5829:

I can’t understand why the Krait remain. The rest of the groups I can understand as they still can get what they came for. However, the Krait are different to me.

The Krait came with the understanding that Scarlet would bring them a prophet, a task at which she failed. It seems to me, they would turn on her at this point.

She brought them a prophet. Said thing was murdered by adventurers.

JerekLo.5893:

Scarlet made their prophet, in her own way. The Krait there were willing to fight for the monstrosity thinking it was what they had been promised. Probably given more time, they would have realized the depth of her trickery.

But we killed it. Fanatics don’t tend to forget those types of transgressions.

Exactly, those Krait with her could be in it PURELY and utterly for revenge on them for killing the prophet.

Delvoire.8930:

Also as a side note, anyone who thinks we’ve killed thousands upon thousands of her minions is wrong. This is a video game. The Developers can’t say that Scarlet has 10,000 soldiers in her army and once those are gone the whole Living Story comes to an end.

If anyone is looking at it like we are just destroying her army and she should be depleted of troops.. well then you have to say the same thing to every monster/enemy/creature in the game. How many Tequatl’s are there? How many Fire Elementals? How many Centaurs can their be? Surely we’ve killed them all by now.

You can’t look at one area of the game and give it a certain standard and ignore all other parts of the game that are similar.

Tequatl techincaly just retreats and isn’t killed, nit-picking. But yes, somebody else has said that. I forget exactly where, but it was basically a "If you REALLY view her invasions in gameplay form as lore/possibly hundreds of her minions getting killed (when there is a complete run, doesn’t happen at all these days really), then view the centaurs like that. They must have a breeding speed of millions to make up for how many the players kill. I’m sure if we took all the player kills combined it’d equal greater then the population of Earth. At least, somebody else said that and I think it’s fitting. It’s a problem with the game design, not Scarlet or her armies.

I don’t think we can accurately say her force’s true manpower, just like he can’t exactly say for sure how big the Seraph forces are, or the true size of the Nightmare court.

BobbyStein.2315:

DragoTheWise.7256:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Because members of Destiny’s Edge are so entwined with your Personal Story as well as the over-arching story with Zhaitan, and because the Living World plot lines are taking place at the same time all those other story threads, we couldn’t have the members of Destiny’s Edge splitting themselves between these other areas and what was going on with Living World. This is partly why we introduced these new characters.

I hope you folks are seriously not considering the LS is happening at the same time as the Personal Story, and this is just a slip up on the post. I also would hope that everyone on the team can get this stuff straight so that this confusion doesn’t happen.

What Regina means is that for players who are currently going through their Personal Story, the LW timeline will seem to be happening at the same time. Technically, they happen at different times in Tyrian history. Personal Story predates the current Living World season by approximately one year.

So when you’re playing your Personal Story and are in an instance with Rytlock, etc. the assumption is that this is happening “in the past” whereas LW events are happening now.

Our hope is to provide better distinction of these timelines within the game, but that would come with the release of a planned feature that we’re not ready to discuss in depth just yet.

That’s kinda what I assumed she meant. ""PS and LS events both take part in Kessex hills. So somebody doing PS in That area might think they happen at same time, so the heroes aren’t exactly the same for both."

Honestly, I think one thing you could do (If I may suggest this), Do the current log of PS missions, but place a date marker on each one. Like a journal. "Saved my sister from a bandit/centaur camp (I forget which one), March (whatever the year is). Day optional. Then for each mission you place that, so you can easily see “Oh, it took us 6 months to go from claw island to defeating Zhaitain.” or “My character was a member of their order for 4 months before Claw island, okay.”

Also, I’d totally love to see those PS items (listed in the hero panel) to actually appear somewhere. Can’t wait to see what you mean by timeline linking to something unannounced though.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

They’ve cornered themselves into a lose-lose situation.

If they don’t destroy LA completely never to return then all the hype about BIG PERMANENT changes was all just a lie.

How would it be a lie if LA was reclaimed and parts rebuilt, but still bearing the scars of the attack for a long period to come? (Like the lighthouse, or the fountain which took forever to build/rebuild).

I think LA will be taken, but in the finale defeating/killing scarlet WOULD weaken/scatter her army. LA would get reclaimed, but obviously would bear the scars/damage for a long time as it rebuilds (Maybe even rebuild in a more defensive layout, as is the city can’t be defended in any real manner once the enemy is within the three entry points to the ‘zone’.)

The Primary.6371:

timidobserver.7925:

No, someone at Anet decided that Scarlet is better than any of the previously developed Story.

Don’t forget about the dragons, since they are apparently a non entity in gw2 thanks to scarlets efforts.

Unless we have the plant dragon controlling Scarlet.

You must’ve missed the point besides Zhaitan, the other dragons haven’t really been on the offensive. Zhaitan was the most offensively focused dragon so far, the rest harass/don’t do as much. The Pact is rebuilding it’s forces and planning which dragon to attack next (and the campaign for it), Scarlet simply appeared in that lull. Or would you rather have living story constantly be able the Pact trying to repair/resupply their weapons and armors, finding new recruits and adventurers to join them etc?

Hell, in the early levels you could call the dragons a “Non-entity!” because they don’t do anything until you start dealing with the order. That doesn’t mean nothing’s happening in the world relating to them.

To expand on my last post, nothing in GW2 indicates areas being in a certain order of time. WoW for example, had quest lines where you finished everything in one region/town, they sent you to the next areas town. GW2 doesn’t do that.

Some of the higher level areas you’ll find “Pact” encampments, but otherwise those areas are near high danger zones (mostly containing dragon minions).

It’s why the various conflicts are so serious. The Centaur-human war isn’t a nice neat “This is the border” They got war camps all over and strike, ALL over. Sons of Svanir have their forts/lodges, all over. Flame legion the same way/nightmare court same thing.

Shiren.9532:

Kalavier.1097:

These are all active pirates, I doubt they’d just “Run to authorities!”. It’s like Jack Sparrow running up to the British army (I think) to report he’s working for a crazy boss! He’ll get arrested and tried, and maybe that other person will go after them.

No, it’s like Jack Sparrow running off to Shipwreck City (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Shipwreck_City) and talking to the Brethren Court (http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Brethren_Court). Lion’s Arch is supposed to be a pirate city, it’s just characters like Kiel don’t really sell the pirate theme that well so it’s easy to forget.

Lion’s arch STARTED as a pirate city. It easily and openly evolved into something much different. Hence why the lionguard deal with some PIRATES. (In one of the docks you see them come back with stuff that was stolen from passengers by pirates IIRC).

The bulk of the people there aren’t pirates. Infact, besides the one area/undermarket, you hardly see any pirates in the city at all. A handful here or there, but overall, not many.

While Kiel may joke (one of her lines is about given the standard greeting, but you don’t need a perforated spleen), LA has changed. If it was a “CITY OF PIRATES” why would they field the Lionguard over most of Tyria running havens for traders and travelers?

CureForLiving.5360:

Dalanor.5387:

This happened in WoW too and nobody give a skritt about it. Even after you did quests and the world phased out you were still before the grand finale even if you already killed the Lich King numerous times. Don’t whine where there isn’t a problem.
If you care about good story, read a book. Games are for fun.

Oh some people did, but it only really affected the RP-crowd.

Fafnir.5124:

And time line between living world and my story has always been iffy. mostly because anet doesn’t want to discriminate against new gamers. Which are why most living stories are isolated to only a single map.

Well the real question is: when does what occur. Most seem to assume that Living Word takes place after Personal Story, but I don’t remember a official dev confirmation so it makes takes place parallel to it, which does remove some of the issues OP mentioned.

lordkrall.7241:

But we ARE facing multiple Shatterer.
In lore the Shatterer is not a specific dragon, it is a rank. And thus everytime we face the Shatterer we are facing a new dragon.

Same thing with Claw, but I’m not sure if there are multiple Tequatls. But apparently you never kill it, which is supported by it’s defeat animation. Where Shatterer explodes Teq jumps back into the ocean.

A year makes sense for the actions of personal story. We know Marjory had met Kasmeer “six months before” (I think) before the time of this last update. A dev somewhere mentioned the Pact is currently in “Repair/regain losses” mode while planned the next campaign against a dragon (and which). It’s the same way in GW1 beyond. Same regions, takes place afterward.

The areas simple don’t = the timeline. Bar maybe the orders have independent operations (which is implied to happen even post Pact), you can’t truly say “Oh, everything in Wayfarer foothills took place before snowden drifts.”

Cliff.8679:

draxynnic.3719:

Quick lore point – the Flame Legion have already had three attempts at gods for the charr that we know of – titans, destroyers, and Baelfire. If that’s what they’re hoping to get out of the alliance, that would be the fourth.

Cliff.8679:

As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her.

That’s the common interpretation, but is it what’s actually going on? Sure, Scarlet shows a marked disregard for the welfare of her minions, but they could be working for her despite that rather than [/i]because[/i] of it. What if Scarlet has revealed a threat that she believes she’s working against to them, and they’re working for Scarlet because, however callous she may be, it still gives better odds than if the cataclysm she claims to be working to prevent happens?

Note that this does not, in any way, mean that Scarlet is actually working for good, any more than the mursaat. It just means that the Aetherblades and others working for Scarlet because “they like living” might be doing so because they believe Scarlet will protect them from some other threat, not because Scarlet will kill them if they don’t.

It’s possible, but it still seems pretty silly that they would side with her over the Pact, who’ve already proven they can take down an Elder Dragon and can do so without threat of slaughtering their subordinates. It also doesn’t help that it’s hard to believe the aetherblades couldn’t just gang up on her and take her out. She relies entirely on manipulating various alliances to work for her. Her being so intimidating as to cow an entire armada of sky pirates into loyalty under threat of death is a difficult sell.

Unless what they want seems to mesh into her plans. Besides, watchworks/twisted watchworks. In a more ‘realistic’ viewpoint, they’d be hard to kill being almost purely metal. A Nightmare would just go through a crowd easily (Like a siege golem, but more stretched out and thinner lol). These are all active pirates, I doubt they’d just “Run to authorities!”. It’s like Jack Sparrow running up to the British army (I think) to report he’s working for a crazy boss! He’ll get arrested and tried, and maybe that other person will go after them.

Also the fact she got the group of inquest involved which actually got their airships off the ground. Who is to say that she didn’t tell them a “Oh, you betray me? I’ll just yank the bits causing your ships to work!” And maybe she actually did. Remember that Aetherblade airship which crashed in the Sanctum update? They gave no reason, just “It crashed after plundering LA and trying to get away.” What if they were trying to get a bunch of gold and just leave (Ditching Scarlet), so she sabotaged their ship and caused it to crash and kill the crew?

Suddenly to the rest “You try to betray/ditch me, I’ll break your ship.”

edit: LA admits to having pirates come in and out. There are large pirate groups outside of LA. Whose to say she walked up and down LA recruiting instead of finding individual ships out on the sea and getting them to her cause? And until the Aetherblades appeared they may have acted normal, giving no indication of a changed loyalty. Or these guys held loyalty to Mai Trin, and Scarlet recruited her. So Mai Trin’s goons/minions followed along.

phys.7689:

TChalla.7146:

phys.7689:

TChalla.7146:

phys.7689:

TChalla.7146:

Hmmm…

I think they should work out some of the kinks with the current professions before they start even considering adding more classes.

Just my opinion though.

nah thatd take forever. its been 17 months and that hasnt happened. I dont think they should go another 17 without some big changes

So instead, they should add more classes to further imbalance the game, creating even more complaints about how imbalanced everything is?

I’m trying to figure out what sort of scenario in which that would be a good idea. So far, I can’t come up with one.

Unless…

The new race’s imbalance overshadowed all other imbalances by such a wide margin that everything else looked balanced by comparison.

You might have something here…

In that case, I suggest the new class be the “Iwin” class. Anyone that rolls said class starts out at level 90 with all Ascended gear. It should be a heavy armor class, be able to use any weapon combination, and be able to use the best skills from each other class. It should be able to see through stealth, should be immune to damage and should have a 1200 radius heal that ticks for 1000 health per second. Make that 10000 health per second.

And to top it all off, all skills go off simultaneously with the press of one button that the player chooses. I personally would choose the space bar, since it’s the largest button on the keyboard, so there’s less of a chance of missing it.

Hmmm… magic find should start off at 9001%.

balance is never acheived anyhow. look at fighting games, they balance and release new charachters periodically. Even though SF has been out since the 80s, they still arent balanced.

So really you are saying they should sit around tweaking the same old skills and same old charachters forever and never add anything of import? Are you really going to play the same classes with the same skills with the same content over and over with nothing new?

Most people arent playing a class because its OP, they are playing a class because they like the idea behind the class and find it fun. Same reason why people play teir 5 charachters in fighting games. Having a perfectly balanced game is highly overated, having a game with new interesting content/variation is way more profitable apealing and entertaining.
The most balanced game would have 1 class, it would also be boring as hell

Actually, I agree with you 100% that true class balance can never exist. In my experience, the best “balance” I’ve ever seen is the “rock-paper-scissors” style of balance. It’s not balanced exactly, but there is always a specific class that outshines the other classes in something.

In Guild Wars 2, however, it would seem (by accounts on the forum more than personal experience), that what we have is a couple of classes that can do pretty much everything (I’m talking PvE more than anything else), while certain classes are left as being substandard in pretty much every aspect of PvE.

In my opinion, the game needs more of an equilibrium of class value before we go adding another class to the mix.

In essence, fix the broken stuff before adding more broken stuff.

I think most of the PVE imbalances are more about perception and the meta that was created by and for a select few classes. Theres also differences in learning curve with certain classes. There are some issues yes, but they arent really making it to where you cant succeed at pve unless you are A B or C. However the playerbase will tell you that you cant succeed at A B C.

This. Players are stupid and sometimes shove that certain weapons on certain classes are worthless, but they aren’t. IE, I remember hearing that “Axe on necro was terrible!” I almost purely use Axe and do quite well.

Warcry.1596:

The fact that Destiny’s Edge and the Pact are not involved could be a clear indicator that an Elder Dragon is not behind Scarlet at all.

How does this make sense at all? Pact aligned forces were heavily involved in Tower of Nightmares. It wasn’t until this last update they had access to her recordings/learned she might be manipulated by something else.

Up until this point, there has been no (solid) evidence of a dragon being involved (besides Scarlet’s experiments with dragon energy). Trust me, if a dragon gets revealed, they’ll come. Until then they are rebuilding their forces and managing the Risen while they plan their next campaign.