Guild Wars 2

CureForLiving.5360:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Because members of Destiny’s Edge are so entwined with your Personal Story as well as the over-arching story with Zhaitan, and because the Living World plot lines are taking place at the same time all those other story threads, we couldn’t have the members of Destiny’s Edge splitting themselves between these other areas and what was going on with Living World.

Wait is it me or are you saying Living Story is taking place at the same time as the personal story? That’s interesting, it seemed like the primary assumption was that the Living Word was taking place after the Personal Story.

Somebody in the Molten Alliance arc goes “Wait, why is a commander of the Pact here? Aren’t you all supposed to be off fighting dragons?” And somebody (in another topic) mentioned Anet saying the Pact was currently in a “rebuild forces, plan next anti dragon move, plan which dragon to go after.” stage.

^ Has a point. Though I’d call “priory, order of whispers, and vigil” as “Pact operations” in technicality, especially if they are working together (like they did in tower of nightmares).

draxynnic.3719:

Starscream.6498:

Thereon.3495:

So here’s an idea of how I would change that trailer- keep the LA part at the start but replace the Aetherblade pirate ships with the sound of one then fade out. Fade back in to screams and to the odd bit of burning rubble, fade out to the title. This tells the watcher roughly whats going to happen but doesnt throw images of a burning Lions Arch at us.

I honestly don’t see how that would change anything. If you make the simplest connection you would again conclude that Lion’s Arch is going to get destroyed.

Not necessarily. Attacked, yes, but if you’ve completed the investigation from the current release, that wouldn’t surprise you. However, you wouldn’t know for sure it was Lion’s Arch and not ArenaNet throwing a red herring, nor would you know the extent of the damage (there’s a big difference between being attacked, and being set ablaze to the level we see in the trailer).

What level? I saw one field, and a few buildings in an arch/below it on fire. Otherwise I saw NOTHING that tells me the entire city is burnt to the ground and in ruins.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kalavier.1097:

I don’t see how there are any connections between the two groups that’d warrant a “Destiny’s edge version 2!” title.

Maybe you should try and look then to see the similarities. You can’t see a whole lot with your eyes closed dear.

Many of the members of this new group, are related directly or indirectly to members of Destiny’s Edge. Taimi is the Ward of Zojja. Braham is the son of Eir. Rox is trying to join Rytlock’s warband.

Plus they feature a member of almost every class and race, much like Destiny’s Edge. They have clearly been designed to be the new player companions for upcoming Living Story, as a replacement for the less popular Destiny’s Edge.

And Marjory/Kasmeer are related to Logan, how? He hired them to do a single job.

Instead of constantly comparing them to other groups, I look at them by themselves. I don’t see them staying together after Scarlet dies/defeated.

Rox to Rytlock. Besides the fact she wants into his warband, there isn’t any more alike for them besides “They are charr” Personalities are completely different.

Braham to Eir. Related for one, norn for another, both go with wolf. Other then that, personalities are different, Braham specifically wants to separate him legend from his mothers…

Marjory/Kasmmer to logan. They are human, and that’s it. There is literally no relationship shown between them besides “He hired Marjory to investigate Theo’s death. that’s it.”

Taimi to Zoijja. Both Asura, both females, both smart. Taimi’s personality is a far cry from Zoijja’s trying to be helpful and sharing what she knows.

I’m not really seeing major similarities besides “A group formed out of the different races of Tyria with varying classes.” Which I think it hardly enough to label them “DE. 2.0!” personally. While there are some, the characters themselves are different.

But it didn’t show the entire city, I saw what looked like the front/north passageway into LA (from the fields side), what MIGHT be the farm fields in LA, and the shore where the memorial is.

That’s three, small and tiny glimpses compared to the size of the city. We don’t know what it all looks like.

Shiren.9532:

I’m still curious how Lion’s Arch is going to work out for people who need to meet an apple seller. Some personal story stuff I could ignore (like the death of the Queen), but an entire city occupied, meeting an apple seller isn’t going to make sense at all. The Battle for Claw Island won’t make sense at all (let’s reclaim an island because the city might fall, you know, again).

I hope they at least have technology to show two separate instances. I did a personal story instance in Bloodtide Coast yesterday and there was the glaring inclusion of one of Scarlet’s thumpers in the middle of it. Escorting that political refugee out of the city won’t make a lot of sense if half of the landmarks are destroyed or burning while the NPCs wander around like it’s a normal day.

They said something about personal story steps will be accessible through another entrance.

cheshirefox.7026:

the only people who didn’t like trahearne were the “i want My player to ascend to godliness and be The hero.” i’ll admit, his character in game seems like a bit of a push over which is Not how his character was written.. same deal with Marjory, well written character with Amazing concept art… not even believable as a person in game

Don’t agree with Marjory not being believable as a person… but we agree on the Trahearne bit(mostly).

I’ve seen a LOT bashing him and hating on him, but twisting all the facts from what really happened. And even when you prove them wrong, they continue to act/twist the evidence.

Cliff.8679:

This question has been bothering me for a while now. I seem to recall the finale of Flame and Frost having dialogue in which both Flame Legion and Dredge NPCs expressed regret with regards to joining her and that they now realized that they had been tricked and taken advantage of.

So yeah, I’m not sure why the Molten Alliance is still even a thing. As for the aetherblades, the only motivation we’ve been given is that “they like living” according to Scarlet, implying that she’ll kill them if they don’t follow her. I’m not sure why the krait from the Toxic Alliance have any reason to stick around after the tower plot failed and they didn’t get their prophets, and I’m still not clear on how the Nightmare Court got involved in the first place.

A: Some of the Molten Alliance obviously remained intact and with Scarlet. As I said, the bulk probably shattered and split up, but a decent number remained intact/escaped with Scarlet.
B: She is still dangling the obelisk shards over their heads probably. Or more at least.
C: Nightmare court in Toxic Alliance are explicitly a splinter faction that sided with Scarlet.

Peregryn.6578:

If they are (even just for the term of this event) turning lion’s arch into an active combat zone with leveling characters up to content. They would need to move many services out.

Only time will tell but I suspect Talonblaze that you are correct, Lion’s arch will be changed, possibly in major ways, but NOT destroyed or turned permanently into an active combat area.

‘For the time being" I take that as… this next LS update, and maybe the finale. Afterwards it gets reclaimed. Because if this is the finale to the Scarlet arc, the attacking forces will kinda split up after she’s defeated/killed.

cheshirefox.7026:

yeah, my big concern with living world is….
where the k i t t e n has the pact been through scarlet’s impending apocalypse
living story to me might as well be a 9000 page novel with 8998 blank pages
at least i can look at it from a tactical standpoint.. scarlet neglected to join trahearne or the pact, so it’s either worthless or formidable to her or whatever’s driving her.. this leads to an assault on lion’s arch.. still though, a probe has found ‘something’ ?under lion’s arch and there seems to be no end or reason in sight.. yet the next 2 updates are suppsoe to be super…

tldr, personal story was rushed and living world was overdrawn out.. this game makes me sad

Um, the Pact was all over the tower of nightmares or did you forget? Afterwards you hear the vigil and order of whispers people on that hill talking about planning to take out Scarlet. The Priory was involved in the marionette attack (and since the group left, the lanes have priory members running them now).

The pact, while big, has a lot of fronts it’s working on. Mount Maelstrom, Frostgorge, I think they are active in Fireheart rise, Orr still…

You do know LA is a pretty huge city?

I saw one boat-bridge arch thing burning. I didn’t see anything to truly indicate the ENTIRE CITY was destroyed. Infact, some people ingame figure a section will be attacked/destroyed, and the other will remain mostly intact (to preserve certain functions like bank/TP, crafting, fractal access, etc.)

edit: apparently those services are going to Vigil keep.

Lonami.2987:

I see many of you are making a fatal mistake here, by mixing game mechanics (event repetition) with lore. The logic answer is that there’s only one fight against one “The Shatterer”, just like there’s only one fight against one “Taidha Covington”.

As for Tequatl, I’d say logic says he’s been fought twice, one before the Tequatl Rising release and another after the release.

Don’t try to explain with lore why some events happen again and again. It’s game mechanics. It’s not like Zhaitan revives each time I go play Arah story mode. Don’t mistake normal dynamic events with cyclical “conquest” events that aren’t as clear.

You are making the fatal mistake of not paying attention to the actual world. The Shatterer is killed, the title goes to another dragon (you always see one flying up and down that region). “Claw of Jormag” is more of a rank, as they have (IIRC) mentioned multiple claws of jormag harassing the Kodan ships, so we kill one, and another one arrives.

Tequatl explicitly is mentioned to merely be “driven off” and the Warmaster implies a number of battles before the Pact bought the megalaser and set up their forces there. Tequatl doesn’t get killed, he gets forced to retreat.

Tequatl the Sunless is one of Zhaitan’s champions. Tequatl, whose name means “the one in darkness” in the language of the hylek (thus, with hylek calling Risen “the Sunless” his name roughly translates into “risen one in the darkness”), has long plagued the Splintered Coast of Sparkfly Fen, opposed by the Vigil, the sylvari of Caer Brier, the asura of the United Arcanist Lab, the quaggans of Brooloonu, and the local hylek tribes.

Recently, Vigil tacticians have reported that Tequatl seems to have “evolved” and its attacks have become more elaborate, and it has become more difficult to fight. Warmaster Narru who was dispatched by General Almorra Soulkeeper to investigate the reports theorizes that it may be a response to the Pact offensive in Orr; though whether this is the case remains to be seen. At a similar time to Narru’s assignment, Rytlock Brimstone had sent Rox to track and kill Tequatl the Sunless.

“It’s attacks have become more elaborate” “It has long plagued the coast”

from Narru.

“Vigil tacticians have noticed that Tequatl has been improving its battle strategies with every emergence. We’re here to see if there’s any truth to that analysis.”
“If it is adapting, we’ll face a smarter, deadlier foe every time it emerges. What we determine here will chart the course of future dragon-lieutenant conflicts.”
“Some asura have been testing this laster against Tequatl for a while. We’ve made a generous offer for the weapon. Now, we’re amplifying its power for the operation.”

The entire dialogue points toward Tequatl’s emergence being often, and fighting for a while. Aka, win or fail, his event happens in canon repeatedly.

Nightmare court and inquest are likely just a splinter faction. Same for the rest. Actually, I think its EXPLICITLY said the Nightmare court forces with her are a splinter faction.

Dredge and Flame legion were offered something they wanted. Some obviously followed her. It is an uneasy alliance and the ones remaining are likely the craziest ones, with the rest disbanding as it was hinted to.

Krait, she dangled obelisk shards over their heads. The ones with her are following purely for that reason.

Watchworks used similar parts as the steam creatures. A group which nobody has had the time/been able to figure out. Scarlet highjacked the watchworks because of this loophole.

Inquest, who says it’s the entire group? Who says it’s not just some splinter cell of them which saw this as a neat experiment and decided to follow through on it?

Dredge were given the chance to gain new power, which would force them higher up the chain. They knew the flame legion were oppressors, they planned to take the gear and kill the charr off as I recall. Their leadership involved thought the tech/magic gains were great enough it was worth the risk. Opposite for the Flame Legion. They planned to keep the tech for themselves, but enslave the dredge when they had a chance. But likewise, the advances in power tempted them in.

Aetherblades (the sky pirates/pirates part)? who knows. We do know for a FACT they are terrified of Scarlet to the point of being afraid of her horribly killing them. Mai Trin (as part of Scarlet’s plan) was going to get the captain’s council seat. Who is to say that bit alone (or them getting control of LA when all is done) isn’t the lure to get them to work with her?

In the end, she’s supported by groups all because she offered them something they want. And not just “Oh, I kinda want that” but something they REALLY, REALLY want. That’s why the groups remaining (for molten alliance/toxic alliance) are still there. The bulk may have dispersed and gone back to normal, but there is still a chunk clinging to those promises.

DarksunG.9537:

Because Anet loves her so much she’s a lore vortex. Bending everything to fit her.

And some of the players hate her so much they just have to twist the facts and lore to support their hatred.

I’ve seen it happen here in the few times I’ve looked.

Tyragon.2496:

Pretty simple, Scarlet was able to convince them and by showing again and again how she’s the only one able to match the other superior races/factions alongside the heroes of Tyria, they have no choice but to follow her if they wish to gain anything.

She may not have won any battles, but with all her advancement in technology and what she’s able to provide for these races, it looks like Scarlet is leaning towards winning the war, which means a lot more than any battle.

I bet this last attack on Lion’s Arch will prove if Scarlet is still capable of leading them and if they still wanna follow her. I think it’s clear that the ones in the alliances wants one thing in common: to become more powerful and bash the living hell out of the races/factions and heroes that have done it to them.

Sweet payback.

And the ones still following her are the ones who bought into her offers the most. I’d wager the big bulk of Molten alliance and Toxic alliance shattered, leaving the ones still with Scarlet.

A sizable number for sure, but not as huge as it was before.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kalavier.1097:

Well, in all honestly people calling this group “DE version 2” is just misguided.

So you’re saying that the devs are misguided?

When have the devs called them that. I’ve heard people saying even the Devs don’t say that.

Either way, it’s true. Rox goes to join the stone warband. Marjory and Kasmeer go back to their PI business. You are left with Taimi, Braham, and the player. Taimi may go back to Rata Sum as her role model is dead/defeated. Braham will continue to adventure and do norn stuff.

I don’t see how there are any connections between the two groups that’d warrant a “Destiny’s edge version 2!” title.

AsgarZigel.4530:

She just says she cut off part of the tail and “took him down”, she doesn’t say that he’s dead.

It’s explicitly said if you talk to the warmaster at the boss fight area that Tequatl had been taken down a number of times before then. The pact bought the megalaser from the previous Asura who were there, and the theory is that his enhancements are because of the actions in Orr. So it’s left kinda blank about whether this happens during or after the battles in Orr.

And yes, the Warmaster and other sources pretty much explicitly say they never kill Tequatl, just force him to retreat and heal. That’s why he is always coming back. (Like the other dragons have explanations about why they keep happening. “Claw of Jormag” is the name for a large group of dragons, and the “shatterer” is merely a title held by one of Kralk’s champions at a time, one dies another takes it.)

Ruin.1927:

They’re also more powerful now than they ever were. They’re part of an army that has far greater capability than they ever had as their own individual factions. They can’t ignore that fact.

And if Scarlet is really that bat kitten crazy, would you be the one to raise your hand and say, “I don’t think I want to play anymore.”

considering how the Aetherblades literally have been shown to say “We are more scared of her then we are of you. She’ll slaughter us for messing up.”…

I think the original gate set will be damaged/destroyed, and that second one will replace them as the main hub.

Judge Banks.9018:

Sometimes I get the impression that I’m the only one that finds scythes to be extremely impractical as a weapon. I’d be more excited for a profession that draws power directly from the gods, even more excited if they could also swap between avatars(purely from a game-play perspective).

Also Ritualist is probably the lamest profession concept from Guild Wars. By far the most passive profession in the game.

Note my comment. They were fun in GW1, but as I thought about battles, the Scythe just wasn’t as useful. Bring it back as a war-scythe/polearm focused melee warrior (with longer range then say greatswords, but shorter then any ranged weapon aka pistol/shortbow), and it might be interesting. Polearm+ fast attack (which was kinda their thing as I recall. :P)

Ritualists were interesting. IIRC, they worked great as MM with secondary necro cause their spawning power bonus or something. But realistically, it’s something I’d see folded into Necromancer if it was to return. Some new minion summons which are based off the more popular spirit summons from GW1? That’d be neat. Like the elite summons the three, while others summon a single one. Maybe make them mobile instead of rooted though.

I enjoyed rits, but they’d need tweaking to fit in/work in GW2. It was more of a “group support/healing” and “Spirit” subtype of Necromancer if you look at it a certain way then something completely unique.

AsgarZigel.4530:

Even if the relationship would make the story less “serious” – why is that a bad thing? If anything, the more humorous characters like Tybalt or Lord Faren have been the best and most likable in GW2.
I mean I guess I can somewhat see where you are coming from, the delivery is still a bit clumsy at times. Kasmeer’s backstory-dump made me cringe a little as well. But I’ll take characters that actually have a bit of development and hooks for future stories over Destiny’s Edge, who were pretty much solely defined by their relationship with each other and most of the buildup presumably happened in a book I haven’t read.

As far as Jory and Kasmeer go, I’d just appreciate it if they got to interact with the rest of the group a bit more individually. Maybe have them split up for a time? I don’t actually know about them as characters, honestly, but that might just be because I didn’t play too much during past updates that featured them.

Well, in all honestly people calling this group “DE version 2” is just misguided.

Rox and Braham ran into each other during Molten alliance, and kinda teamed up as an Adventurer pair afterwards (though Rox went after Tequatl alone… poor girl lugging that chunk of his tail around for weeks waiting to run into Rytlock :O) though they have split up on times. It’s going to break up as soon as Rox gets Scarlet dealt in (dead or defeated for good) and joins the stone warband. Braham will likely continue to adventuer alone , or maybe with Taimi (and definitely Rox when she has time). Marjory and Kasmeer on the other hand really ran into them because of the Scarlet events. After Scarlet is dealt with, I don’t see them doing much adventuring and instead going back to the Private investigator business.

But yes, they could interact a little bit more with this coming to a finale soon.

I fail to see how it’s being a drama show at all with Marjory/Kasmeer.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kalavier.1097:

I know this may conflict with the “necromancer” thing, but what about Eve from GW1? We know magical long life exists (to point of GW1 to GW2). If she wasn’t actively using necromancer magic (as I said earlier) she might not appear/aura it about…

We could make a huge list with characters whose name starts with E. That doesn’t narrow it down. There are three things that make Eve a very unlikely candidate.

• She’s a necromancer. We know that E is most likely not a necromancer.
• She’s dead. It’s been 250 years, and the rest of the henchmen are also dead. Why wouldn’t she be? Plus, her skull Adam is an item you can find in the game. If she no longer has the skull, then she may no longer be alive.
• She doesn’t know the player, and the player doesn’t know her. E says that he knows the player, but he/she probably doesn’t know him. This rules Eve out. She is never ever introduced in the game.

A: As I said, it may be up for debate whether Marjory was meaning something like “Used necromancer powers to sneak up/get close” or “Felt the general aura necromancers give off” (Which we’ve never heard of that happening before in the lore IIRC)
B: It’s been explicitly stated people (at least humans) can use magic to live long lives. Livia is still alive in GW2. It would make sense for Necromancers to have the easiest time at this. Also, there are items say, ascended which belong to other characters which would be weird for them to be available. Joko’s finger cuffs for example lol.
C: I don’t think E has EVER been shown in the game to begin with. If It’s Livia she hasn’t appeared once. If E has been shown, it’s somebody that the players haven’t interacted with much or at all. Or isn’t a character that people are required to interact with.

Dougal Keane could be an example of a possible person. Well knowable about dungeons/events going on, from DR and lives in LA, he knows the characters before they meet him in the city…

“I recognize you. [Character Name], right? My name is Dougal Keane. I’d been wondering if I’d see you come through here at some point.”
“As a member of the Vigil, I get pertinent information sent my way. You’ve been making a name for yourself, but I’m sure you’re aware of that fact.”
“I mentor the younger Vigil members about the dangers they may face in the field. Of course, I do keep an eye out to see if anything interesting pops up. still an adventurer at heart, I guess.”

Puts him in the “Could possibly be E” area I think. The first line is when you first talk to him.

Dustfinger.9510:

NPC’s are falliable. But I think what she is saying is that they aren’t ‘gone’ into the mists because their power is still very present and real in Tyria. Which is what Jeff also said.

She doesn’t have our out of game knowledge. She has an in world knowledge. So context of the actual words is important here.

Which is basically what I’m saying. Yes, they are doing basically jack kitten to help the humans really, but their power is still there. “Prayer” to the various gods work after all, which could be said to be the most they are doing. In the Priory mission to defend LA you use a relic of Balthazar which works fine (IIRC, it was that mission. you did it at some point anyway). Grenth asks for a soul to be returned to him that Zhaitan had taken.

And as dustfinger said, in world knowledge compared to out of world knowledge. Some say Jormag rose from Drakkar lake, but we know that to be false. (Unless Jormag was beneath the lake entirely and further down then Drakkar…. huh). In Sorrow’s Embrace they call the Iron Forgeman and Inquest creation (IIRC), when he was merely rebuilt and was a Dwarven construction. Some knowledge is lost/twisted, which is to be expected. Another good example is Ogden Stonehealer being called the “LAST OPPRESSOR”, which is false and he even states it to be so lol.

My point was more toward the “Poor priestess can’t accept she’s been ditched by her god.” When Grenth is very clearly wanting the keeper of the temple ‘returned to him’, aka, they are silent, they are distant, but they are still watching/looking in at times.

If Grenth wants the soul of the keeper returned to him (his realm being underworld, where the dead humans at least go), I’d say he’s still in that region. Again, not contesting the “They aren’t interacting much with the world at all”, but maybe they aren’t as distant as some ingame NPCs would suggest.

Who says they weren’t dealing with the heads of the enemy forces? You know, Balthazar’s brother for Fissure of Woe, Grenth trying to contain Dhuum, etc.

I find it incredibly funny the idea of “Oh, these gods have their own realms. But even in GW1, when they were rather active with humanity, they didn’t actually live in or ever stay in their realms.”

What’s the point of Underworld being Grenth’s realm if he isn’t there at all? What’s the point of the Fissure of Woe if Balthazar is never there? Being gods, maybe they were dealing with kitten on another level while their avatars/helpers took care of the ‘minor’ things.

And as noted in the dialogue, you do a task grenth specifically wants done so they are very much still there and keeping an eye on Tyria even if they aren’t in direct contact.

Also, it’s his realm, we don’t go to him personally because remember thing thing that mortals seeing gods pretty much blinds them forever? We don’t see Balth in the Fissue of Woe (his realm) but that doesn’t mean he’s not there.

Also you know, nightfall where we were in the domain of anguish/realm of torment after Kormir ascends and we don’t see her anywhere despite it being her realm technically. I think it’s just the adventurers didn’t meet the gods, though they went through part of their realm.

I think using GW1 as example of them “Not in their realms” is just silly. Where else would they be in GW1? Chilling and having tea with Primordus?

You completely misunderstand “around”.

The gods are quiet, they aren’t interacting, but if the Reaper is summonable and specifically gives a task GRENTH WANTS DONE, they are around. They simply aren’t as close as they were before.

Also, Grenth’s realm is the underworld. How can he not be ‘watching over’ or ‘residing’ there?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kalavier.1097:

I assume you didn’t pay attention, because at that point the player is solidly WITHIN one of the orders, which removes the whole “Neutral bit.”

They could have easily written that differently. The orders hardly play a part in the finale of the game anyway, and certainly not against Zhaitan. There was literally no reason for Trahearne as a character to exist, when you have the player.

Orders help make most of the gear. They basically are the army that takes Orr.

Kalavier.1097:

Kormir doesn’t steal your glory either. I never got that impression.

She doesn’t aid you in battle, and after defeating Abaddon, she takes his place as the new goddess. How is that not stealing your glory? She literally takes the reward for your efforts right underneath your own nose. And like I said, even some of the writers at Anet have come out to state that this was a mistake, that Kormir stealing your glory was a bad story decision.

Because from a storytelling standpoint, how do you go forward? “Oh, this sixth god has no name because he/she was a player character” It’d be worse for the players to take that slot as then they’d be retconned/forced into something else for the canon writers. “This person was a sunspear (which disregards any proph or factions characters), and became a god named X (which disregards player names).” Yes, Kormir may have been done badly though.

Kalavier.1097:

Again, he doesn’t steal glory and points out HOW IMPORTANT YOU ARE TO SUCCESS. How can the focus be entirely off the player if that is true?

Because it should be the player leading the armies, not some hastily introduced npc. Granted, he gets more of an introduction in the Sylvari storyline. But it’s Trahearne who is given the magic sword Caladbolg. It is Trahearne who purifies Orr. And it is Trahearne who leads the Pact against Zhaitan. Remove him from the story, and replace him with the player, and you instantly have a more fulfilling personal story.

After cleansing Orr Trahearne basically gives you command of the Pact as he has to rest. The rest of the time the player is doing high profile/very important tasks. Besides, which makes more sense to you. “A scholar well studied in Orr and known/respected by the three orders.” or “A Sylvari just recently awoken and joined (example) the Vigil. Order of Whispers and Priory has basically no real knowledge of this person.”

I’d go with the first over the second. Especially if you factor in say, human variant. “A human street rat who managed to befriend Logan, stop a minor plot and then joined the order of whispers.” Charr and Asura have slightly more impressive points perhaps, but still the same thing. “A known person to the orders and respected” vs “A semi-newcomer to the world at large, unknown to the other orders really.”

That is the very definition of Mary Sue writing. They are all heroes of some sort, and we are told they are heroes, part of the awesome Destiny’s Edge.

Logan and Rytlock were generic line troops before running into Caithe. Zoijja was apprentice to Snaff. Caithe was firstborn. Eir was a sculptor and ranger. Really, Zoijja and Caithe had any real ‘heroish’ status before Destiny’s Edge. Their actions as the group gave them a reputations.

Kalavier.1097:

How do we know that’s a sudden flaw? We never get told of Airship engineering beforehand.

SIGH! You can’t recognize a convenient plot device when you see it? And you’ll even go as far as to make an excuse for it? There is no logical reason why Logan had to stay behind. None what so ever. They didn’t even consider another option. The soul purpose of the airship being landlocked, was so that Logan could stay behind and be a hero. Don’t defend that sort of writing. It’s dishonest.

I’m not going to fret over it. It’s one of those scenes I accept but can also accept it could’ve been done better.

Kalavier.1097:

Ehem, did you even look at your picture. Right of Zoijja, below Garm, and left of trahearne. That would be the player character of the Charr seen leading Destiny’s edge out of the light earlier. Again, he’s present and standing besides DE, disproving your “Upstaged and pushed to the side” theory.

He’s standing to the side clearly. He’s not leading them anywhere, he’s tagging along.

They aren’t going anywhere in that shot. They are standing on the coast doing nothing. And he’s in line with Rytlock and Logan. That combined with the previous shot (Of him leading Destiny’s Edge out of the light) really don’t make it appear as if he’s tagging along or sidelined.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kalavier.1097:

If you actually talk to Evon, he mentions how the lionguard is all chasing Scarlet in the forest and LA is weakened (Said something like that recently when I talked to him). He was very much concerned over LA’s defenses and safety.

This is one of the reasons I don’t think E is Evon. Evon cares a lot about Lion’s Arch. We never see him concerned about Divinity’s Reach as well. Which may mean that we should look for someone who is more concerned for Kryta as a whole, and who has a broader perspective, but limited movement room. This suggests someone of nobility perhaps. Someone who has others looking over his/her shoulder constantly.

Yeah, was just pointing out that he’s very concerned about the safety/defenses of LA since some may not talk to him. Kiel is up in the captain’s council building and mentions the rest of the council brushing her off for defenses.

I know this may conflict with the “necromancer” thing, but what about Eve from GW1? We know magical long life exists (to point of GW1 to GW2). If she wasn’t actively using necromancer magic (as I said earlier) she might not appear/aura it about…

Random thought.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Like Lady Demmi Beetlestone who now a member of the Order of Whispers?

That’s an option I had not considered yet. I wish there was some way to link the letter E to her though, but the whole “Mister E / Mystery” thing makes it just as likely that it’s a play on words. So the letter need not be related to the name of the sender at all.

Demmi is however a character prominent in the human personal storyline (that’s assuming the player has made it this far in the PS.) In fact, that may be a point against her, that she is heavily involved with part of the PS, as this would kind of derail the timeline if she were Mister E.

If I had to put money on it though, I would still go with Prince Edair, like Konig suggested. But Demmi is a good second option.

Some of the living story content has been confirmed, on the wiki anyways, to take place after Zhaitan’s defeat so it actually wouldn’t interfere with the Personal Story anymore than the other living story content already has.

I think pretty much all the LS takes place after Zhaitan’s defeat. The wiki timeline at least leaves a 2 year gap or so between “Start of Personal story” and “Current LS” (aka, before the marionette boss fight event).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kalavier.1097:

No, because they need somebody who can be mentioned directly in lore, like Kormir.

No they don’t. And the devs have even admitted that Kormir was a big mistake, since she basically steals your glory.

Kalavier.1097:

Also you must’ve missed the fact A: They needed somebody neutral in order to prevent one order from appearing to be favored.

Why couldn’t the Pact simply be lead by someone neutral? Like the player?

I assume you didn’t pay attention, because at that point the player is solidly WITHIN one of the orders, which removes the whole “Neutral bit.” Kormir doesn’t steal your glory either. I never got that impression. Trahearne most definately does not.

Kalavier.1097:

B: Trahearne goes to the PLAYER most, and other leaders a lot for advice, and gives a lot of command freedom/choices to the player. C: Not once does he take credit or glory from the player. He often admits and openly says without the player they couldn’t be doing what they do.

And yes he is constantly the focus of the ending of the personal story. Almost every single player has complained on this issue, that from the moment Trahearne is introduced, she focus of the story shifts from the player to him. It’s not like I’m making this all up on my own. An overwhelming majority of the players seems to feel this way.

Forum goers doesn’t mean overall population. And that’s ACTUALLY a good side to the story. The characters are going from “HEY, YOU JUST RUINED MY WELCOME BACK PARTY!” to “Oh kitten, we gotta come up with a plan to defend and take back Claw Island or Lions Arch will be destroyed, and possibly Kryta invaded!” You go from a comfort bubble of daily life to helping lead one of the biggest military forces against the Risen. Again, he doesn’t steal glory and points out HOW IMPORTANT YOU ARE TO SUCCESS. How can the focus be entirely off the player if that is true?

Kalavier.1097:

Because each member of DE has important roles for the most part in their society, and work to do those. I’m sure when the pact moves to attack another dragon they’ll group up to help out. Until then, they are doing their day to day lives.

This is another example of Mary Sue writing. Giving each member of this elite group a very important job, and being the leader of something. We didn’t see them earn their position, or earn their importance in the story. And consequentially it feels like we are literally being told that these guys are heroes, instead of showing us that they are. What we are shown instead, is that they whine a lot.

Zoijja, brilliant Asura (admittedly with anger issues) who was under a very big genius of the time.
Logan, picked by Jennah to be her champion, joined Seraph after the battle at Ebonhawke.
Eir, doesn’t really have an “important spot” so to speak in Norn Society, but is well known and sometimes sought after for advice.
Rytlock, IIRC it’s explicitly said he worked his way up the ranks, leading him to being Tribune.
Caithe, firstborn, all firstborn are treated with importance/respect in Sylvari culture.

Kalavier.1097:

Unless it was harder to do it from the top then the bottom.

Plot convenience. The design of the airship suddenly suffers a major flaw because otherwise Logan couldn’t sacrifice himself heroically. That is bad writing.

How do we know that’s a sudden flaw? We never get told of Airship engineering beforehand.

Kalavier.1097:

Also, another example of you TWISTING YOUR FACTS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvXgP6Wksfc

End cutscene to personal story. Destiny’s Edge walks forth from the light, player character IN THE CENTER AND IN FRONT. Destiny’s Edge on the shores of Orr looking over the ruins/ocean. player character right there with them and again, kinda in the center.

I’m sorry, what was that about Destiny’s Edge walking off into the sunset in the cutscene while the player sat to the side?

Ehrm, did you watch your own link?

Ehem, did you even look at your picture. Right of Zoijja, below Garm, and left of trahearne. That would be the player character of the Charr seen leading Destiny’s edge out of the light earlier. Again, he’s present and standing besides DE, disproving your “Upstaged and pushed to the side” theory.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Kalavier.1097:

(Glint’s lair was not in a grain of sand, it was as big as it appears. Illusions just made it impossible to find to everybody).

Not, strictly speaking, true. The book isn’t very clear on what sort of magic it was, but it was more than just an illusion- otherwise at some point during the day they spent going back and forth over the same empty tract of land, they would’ve bumped into a wall.

Unless the illusion made them think they were climbing up a dune. It’s kinda unclear how exactly they work though.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think it’s also a problem with Destiny’s Edge literally being shoved in our face. Whether we follow the personal story, or do dungeons. Especially in the human storyline, you are literally sent to Logan Thackeray dozens of times to progress your personal story. And even outside Divinity’s Reach he finds ways to crawl into your story, or send you letters.

And I don’t think apart from Rytlock anyone in Tyria dislikes Logan. Everyone seems to find him just great. Meanwhile me and guildies are poking fun at his dull and shallow character through teamspeak. It gives us a lot of laughs, but it really goes to show just how empty he is.

I didn’t mind them in the personal storyline though. They felt like interesting characters at that point, and on top of that they were a great barometer for the player’s rise. It was only at the point where they set foot in Lion’s Arch again that the writers hit their reset buttons and they were rewritten as you describe.

I felt like it was more of them accepting the break up and moving on, getting into important daily roles for their society. Then suddenly being tricked (IIRC, it was a trick by Caithe) into meeting each other and getting a line about reforming the group that set everybody off. They just weren’t ready to work together again and needed to work out issues, which is what they did in the dungeons. There is more issues that need to be smoothed out, but they can work together now at least.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Isgarren? Hm. That would actually be very interesting… especially considering the little things that’re meant to make us think of him as a villain. I wouldn’t mind it though.

Was just kinda a random thought. I mean, he sits in his tower and otherwise isn’t mentioned to do much.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

My vote is Kasmeer, Jennah or Anise. There’s nothing to back any of that up except that they’re all Mesmers and Anet likes to treat Mesmers as if their abilities are just ridiculously amazing and can fool anyone and everyone.

My serious vote would be on Ellen – if they hadn’t kind of portrayed her as maybe not being quite the sharpest tool in the box…

Um, Mesmers magic is illusion. Factions handbook basically said “Mesmers make their own reality.” The Ebon Falcons from GW EOTN/beyond explicitly mentioned one made an illusion equal in size to the eye of the north to keep a charr army from overrunning them, though it took a toll on her,

Illusion magic is potent and powerful. Remember, Jennah made Ebonhawke appear as filled with branded so the branded ogres would leave, and it worked. They have not yet shown ANYBODY or ANYTHING resistant or capable of outright seeing through illusions so far in the lore(or mentioned it). (Glint’s lair was not in a grain of sand, it was as big as it appears. Illusions just made it impossible to find to everybody).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Kalavier.1097:

Traheane doesn’t upstage the character though. He doesn’t steal the glory, he doesn’t take credit, he doesn’t diminish the players actions at all.

Except for the fact that he’s suddenly promoted to Pact leader. The leader should of course have been the player.

No, because they need somebody who can be mentioned directly in lore, like Kormir. Also you must’ve missed the fact A: They needed somebody neutral in order to prevent one order from appearing to be favored. B: Trahearne goes to the PLAYER most, and other leaders a lot for advice, and gives a lot of command freedom/choices to the player. C: Not once does he take credit or glory from the player. He often admits and openly says without the player they couldn’t be doing what they do.

Kalavier.1097:

Rytlocks anger was fake purely because they managed to overcome a single hurdle?

No, it’s fake because any player knows right from the start that the two will be shaking hands by the end of the story.

We have differing opinions. I assumed that DE would reform, but I never thought they’d just shake hands and be best friends again. Which they are not in any way shape or form. But hey, you seem like the type that loves to twist facts to support your side.

Kalavier.1097:

You know why he wasn’t at the jubilee and Rox was? Because he couldn’t stand being around both Logan and Jennah. (and he hated state events). He purposefully removed himself because the combo of Jennah and Logan was too much for him.

This is a case of the writing improving during the Living Story. The writers seem aware that Destiny’s Edge didn’t really work in the personal story, and thus exclude them a lot from the recent Living Story. They briefly appear, but are now very low key, in contract to the personal story. This is a case of writers stepping up their writing.

Because each member of DE has important roles for the most part in their society, and work to do those. I’m sure when the pact moves to attack another dragon they’ll group up to help out. Until then, they are doing their day to day lives.

Kalavier.1097:

Your statement basically reads as “If somebody stays behind to help the others escape, and shows up alive, it’s pointless.” “If two characters hate each other because of something in their past, but overcome it, it’s pointless and fake”.

No it’s pointless and fake, because we knew it wasn’t a sacrifice, and we knew there was no reason for Logan to stay behind. There’s no reason why the airship couldn’t cut its own ropes from on board the airship. This obstacle was purely hamfisted in to give Logan a sacrificial moment… only to have him pop up completely unscratched on a brand new airship at the end. That is terrible writing, and it diminishes the act of a sacrifice.

Unless it was harder to do it from the top then the bottom.

Kalavier.1097:

Eir and Logan (and Caithe as I’ve done those three races entirely through the story past being into an order) don’t upstage the character.

In fact they do. When ever there’s a problem, or a fight, it is Eir who steps in and takes the part of the player, and tries to break up the fight. But she ultimately doesn’t contribute at all, and could just as easily have been replaced by the player.

And in the final cut scene of the game, we see Destiny’s Edge march towards a sunset, while the player stands somewhere to the side. That is the definition of upstaging the player.

Been a while since I’ve done the Norn first area, but I recall Eir let the player make a lot of the choices, and the PLAYER was trying to get Eir to move on.

Also, another example of you TWISTING YOUR FACTS.

End cutscene to personal story. Destiny’s Edge walks forth from the light, player character IN THE CENTER AND IN FRONT. Destiny’s Edge on the shores of Orr looking over the ruins/ocean. player character right there with them and again, kinda in the center.

I’m sorry, what was that about Destiny’s Edge walking off into the sunset in the cutscene while the player sat to the side?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Sirius.4510:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And I don’t think Edair because of the E, but rather his personality at the end of the novel. Particularly the fact that E pays attention to both DR and LA events.

Wouldn’t he be around 100 if he’s still alive? It would also require that he had abdicated at some point.

Konig said his theory was that Edair was never crowned- that after the debacle at Lion’s Arch he would’ve let one of his brothers take the crown instead. But yeah, that age thing may prove a challenge.

Livia lived a very long time. They’ve outright said people can use magic to lengthen their lives.

MRA.4758:

I have always been pretty convinced that the myterious ‘E’ is in fact … (dramatic pause) … Evon Gnashblade. Yes, he is a greedy kitten who loves nothing more than his profits, but I assume that he is also the most clever person in LA and that he is well aware that there is no commerce in total apocalyptic chaos. So he is pulling some strings in the dark to keep his monopolistic enterprise running smoothly, even if this means helping out some ludicrous do-gooders.

The point that Marjory was not noticing that it was a Charr holding her with his arm speaks of course against this theory, but I am willing to ignore this.

~MRA

If you actually talk to Evon, he mentions how the lionguard is all chasing Scarlet in the forest and LA is weakened (Said something like that recently when I talked to him). He was very much concerned over LA’s defenses and safety.

About the “Felt no necromancer energy” I think you all are approaching it wrong. Maybe Marjory meant more like “No necromancer style powers masked the persons approach.” IIRC, they do have some which allow them to conceal themselves/move quickly, so it may have been just somebody naturally using stealth to approach instead of any magic. I think the herald/E hasn’t been shown ingame yet at all. What if it’s the Wizard in the Wizards tower off Kessex hills?

Traheane doesn’t upstage the character though. He doesn’t steal the glory, he doesn’t take credit, he doesn’t diminish the players actions at all.

Rytlocks anger was fake purely because they managed to overcome a single hurdle? You know why he wasn’t at the jubilee and Rox was? Because he couldn’t stand being around both Logan and Jennah. (and he hated state events). He purposefully removed himself because the combo of Jennah and Logan was too much for him. Both characters admit they have a lot to work through/overcome before they can easily work together again, but they are starting.

Your statement basically reads as “If somebody stays behind to help the others escape, and shows up alive, it’s pointless.” “If two characters hate each other because of something in their past, but overcome it, it’s pointless and fake”.

Eir and Logan (and Caithe as I’ve done those three races entirely through the story past being into an order) don’t upstage the character. Rytlock isn’t doing it much and Zoijja didn’t seem to do it much either. In the dungeons, guess what? The storymode of the dungeons is mostly ABOUT the Destiny’s Edge group. It’s not as focused on the player (They are mainly there and helping out).

How are they mary sues? Seriously. I don’t get that.

Also, it’s more of a turning point from where the Characters start to understand and accept the world problems. It’s a gradual but noticable trend in the personal story.

First set: Personal problems. Issues around the CHARACTER themselves.
Second set: Introduction to the orders, doing things that affect their nation/region.
Order missions: Aiding another race entirely.
Claw Island and beyond: Helping lead the pact, fighting dragon minions all over, and taking the fight to Orr.

It goes from “Man, that jerk just beat up my friend’s dad!” to “Holy kitten this town almost got wiped out.” Steadily the characters personal issues are set aside because in comparison they aren’t as important at the moment.

Yeah, makes sense. Just seems like the Elona ascended items are more from desolation/realm of torment then anywhere else (besides the Ossa family ring), while the Canthan items have more diversity in where they came from. Was hoping for something Istani related to my Elonian descended characters :P.

Hopefully as you say, we see more added as we reach new areas.

Miroe.2054:

Maybe the dear priestess just can’t accept or won’t believe that the gods have left. Jeff won’t lie to us. The in-game characters can do whatever they want. There are a lot of NPCs contradicting each other and only one of them can be right.

The gods are around. A personal story mission in Orr explicitly, and very clearly shows this.

So yeah, the gods didn’t leave, they are still around. They aren’t doing much with humanity directly true, but they are there.

I think the line may be more of meaning that the typical portals (to underworld, fissue of Woe, etc) don’t work anymore. So from a certain perspective, the gods “Aren’t” in the mists as the mists portals can’t access their realms. The gods are very much still around as you find out way later on in the personal story.

Erukk.1408:

Kalavier.1097:

How is Tyria homophobic? NOT ONCE do you see ANY homosexual characters being bashed/put down. And there are a fair number of NPCs open about it. (At least one Asura in Rata Sum mentions her mate/partner getting ideas into “Her cute little bald head” I’m fairly sure there might be at least one or a few more in Rata Sum themselves. At least one Norn NPC mentions waiting for her Girlfriend when asked out.)

I’m just not seeing any evidence of Tyria being hostile toward gays.

^^This^^

Homophobia and representation are two totally different subjects.

Exactly. If it was homophobic, you wouldn’t see Rox OPENLY asking in a public bar if Kasmeer and Marjory are a “mated pair”. Or the Asura in Rata Sum mentioning to a stranger about her mate. Or a number of other npc cases.

There is nothing to support Tyria being homophobic. Hell, Kasmeer outright put her name on Marjory’s door.

mythil.9416:

Okay before I start, obvious spoilers before people get bent out of shape about this.

I’ve got more than one character to 80 and I love the Charr start story missions and so forth. However I have one major problem with the story, Trahearne..

He turns up half way through the story and totally takes the spotlight from you. Everyone starts bowing down to him and following everything he does and all you have is his dirty work to do. He totally removes the feeling of being the spotlight of the story, the hero and the driving force in change and it comes out of nowhere.

I’m sorry but (even though I overall like the game) this is horrible writing and I just had to air my opinions on this.

I didn’t read the second page, but pretty much what Moogie said. People seem to jump on this bandwagon of hate and twisted the facts around.

A friend outright told me (unsure where it is/if it’s true) that some members of the Pact talk about the player, and basically were telling tales about how the Commander(aka the player) took down the dragon at Claw Island by themselves. Traehearne NEVER steals the glory, never turns the player into a mook henchman, and never disregards the player. He often goes to the player and others for advice because he’s not an expert in these areas. He often talks about how without the player, they couldn’t do it.

Most of the Ascended items have some sort of a Lore backdrop (which is awesome), but I noticed most seem to be from Tyria and Cantha, with very few from Elona. I was wondering why?

Andele.1306:

You know, this just points out that tyria is actually more homophobic than the real world (where across almost all animal species around 15% are openly bisexual to homosexual), which is really weird since no gods or laws seem to exist about that… except maybe in the eternal alchemy because of kinda obvious reproductive limits, would turn it taboo. Ofc without counting sylvari since … well plants.

How is Tyria homophobic? NOT ONCE do you see ANY homosexual characters being bashed/put down. And there are a fair number of NPCs open about it. (At least one Asura in Rata Sum mentions her mate/partner getting ideas into “Her cute little bald head” I’m fairly sure there might be at least one or a few more in Rata Sum themselves. At least one Norn NPC mentions waiting for her Girlfriend when asked out.)

I’m just not seeing any evidence of Tyria being hostile toward gays.

ThanatosAngel.8024:

azizul.8469:

dervish has been absorbed into guardian.

actually few GW1 classes has been absorbed into GW2 classes.

i think guardian = dervish + paragon

Guardian is Monk + Paragon. The lore supports this.

I want to see the Dervish make a comeback more than anything else….

Apparently in Sea of Sorrows they directly explain the origins of the Guardian class.

It’s partly paragon and monk teachings, with a bit of Canthan Ritualist magic thrown in. Of course, I’ll note that “Monks” are still very much around. Every priest of Dwayna is a monk and uses healing magic/skills.

Dervish, I’d like them to come back, they were one of my fav classes in GW1. But with changes. The scythe by nature is a bad melee weapon (found this out). Give them the ‘war scythe’ (aka, the blade is fitted to the head of the pole instead of normally. turning it into a spear/pole-arm). If they get heavy armor, include some new designs which feature more robe aspects. Make them a sorta longer ranged melee class (a little greater attack range then say warriors) and/or focused on quick strikes.

Or, those would be interesting changes.

I would maybe be interesting in buying the insignia materials and working upward, though my ori ore/ancient wood logs are not that many, unsure about other materials in that tier (I may have sold the insignia materials lol… ouch). Course, it’d probably be more toward crafting lvl 80 exotics instead of ascended (I was told exotics do you good for everything, ascended you just want if you are going to do fractals with agony levels…) and transmuting the stats onto looks I like. Already have two ascended recipes (one for insignia, one for inscription) from the Marionette event. Been torn between keeping just in case, or selling :P.

Any suggestions toward getting from around 300 upward with no as much hassle?

Okay, my highest crafting across the board is a little below 300 (275 to 290 last I checked), with it mainly being stalled because of the insignia materials running out for that specific level range.

Lately (On suggestion from somebody ingame, which has been working) I’ve gone to salvaging basically everything, and selling the sigils/runes and ecto to TP for a decent income. This however (alongside the drops from the high end world bosses/marionette I’ve done) spawns bloodstone dust and some dragonite ore. I now have literally 1513 bloodstone dust, and about 854 dragonite ore. (I have the materials collections to 500 max, and the rest is sitting in my bank. 500 in collection for dust + 4 more stacks of 250 in the bank). I don’t really think I’ll get any of the crafting up to ascended levels (Though it would be nice honestly) and will be more likely to get the ascended armors from fractal drops (level 7 atm, but wanting to do some more in there).

Is there anything else I can put those materials toward to clear up space/use them? Or any plans from Anet to add something about that?

Pipra.7580:

Blade Syphon.4325:

The only question now is if the voice in her head is a God, or a Dragon.

Or, it could be neither of those.

There were hints in the ‘A Study in Scarlet’ instance that the voice she hears could be a part of her own psyche that was walled off and that it may be tied into the Dream.

There are also possible implications that all Sylvari are naturally shielded from a dragons control, and by Omadd’s device removed all mental shields/barriers, the Dragon (Jungle dragon mainly for the theory) was able to see into Scarlet, and thus she has a voice in the darkness/back of her head/her nightmares driving her insane.

Vorpp simply points out they’d have to do a major study of how the dream works in order to completely and for sure state something one way or another.

A random thing I thought of as an alt to the above theory I posted.

What if it’s one of the current active dragons? Unsure what Kralk would want, but Jormag could use it as a distraction allowing him to strike southward. Zhaitan (If alive and just defeated) could simply want revenge. Primordus is the most likely. Turn LA into a deep enough Chasm, and he could use it to invade the surface with his destroyers.

Underwhelming? Sure, we may know she was going to attack Lions Arch, but the WHY we did not.

Namely, my theory is the voice in her head is the jungle dragon. Omadd’s machine removed and protection the dream holds against the control of the Jungle Dragon, and it’s using her. We know dragons naturally pour magic out while sleeping, so if there are a lot of ley lines in LA, I think she’s going to attack LA and unearth and awaken the Jungle dragon.

If not that, possibly an attack against Primordus at the Jungle Dragons will. Whether it’s an ancient dragon or something else, it’s going to be massive and major.

The investigation scene and her journal seems to strongly imply the theory of Sylvari being dragon minions as somewhat true. An ancient champion broke free like Glint, and shielded the seeds from the dragon control. Ronan planted on, and others got planted in various regions. The dream acts as part of the shield alongside the tablet (though other trees have their own protection I’ll assume), and the nightmare court really is just the Sylvari elements going back to their evil, dragon minion roots.

Calling GW1 lore “human biased” (IMO) isn’t really true. No more then saying “Star Trek lore is federation biased!”

We see it from the viewpoint of the humans, obviously their concerns, beliefs, and governments will take a forward place before others. Especially when the other four governments aren’t even around until EOTN or after. Example. if story A really has race A being the primary force/big shot of the region, and Story B introduces race B who has just come into the area and is equally strong or stronger, of course it’s going to look like story A is ‘biased’. Reality being the other guys simply were not there.

When I say that, I don’t mean “Oh, they can suddenly have humans dancing across rainbows and playing with unicorns!” I mean, In the first story we mainly saw the HUMANs. This time we are seeing other races. It’s expanding the lore. It’s allowing us to see more of the world, more of the other cultures. Seriously, in GW1 you didn’t really learn much about the Dwarves, Centaurs, Tengu, etc. Learned a little, but it was focused on the humans. The heroes were focused on getting to their next goal. GW2 lets us see those other cultures (EOTN really was the start) and showing how they are just as widespread as humanity is, just as capable as humans are (If not better in certain areas).

Why is it a cop-out to accept the lore expanding? The story being purely humans would be very dull. Human centered lore and everything even with how humans have been weakened (which is reasonable, not outrageous about them not being as awesome. Think Gondor in it’s glory days vs lord of the rings trilogy days) would just appear stupid. Magic has changed, how it’s applied, how it’s used. Saying that magic comes from the human gods makes you go “Wait, how? Charr used monk skills in GW1. A lot of other sentient races used magic. How was it truly limited by the human gods?” The practices change. Beliefs change. Knowledge grows.

I’m sorry for accepting new viewpoints into the lore (They almost always interest me) and not believing the first game made the lore “human biased” besides from the viewpoint of the heroes of the first game, dealing with HUMAN problems, where now it’s world problem with other kingdoms just as involved.