Guild Wars 2

Kalan.9705:

Do Elixir-S and asura still cause camera to break for anyone still using S post nerf?

they fixed it the day they made it hardly worth using anymore… how’s that for a joke.

Rocket boots are always on my bar now.
The utility of having a burn on the toolbelt is just awesome beyond the normal use of the boots.
And the new jump just saves me everyday in either WvW or boss fights…

What makes Rocket boots so great aside the effects?
The extremely short cooldown on both main skill and toolbelt.

Rocket boots lost a stunbreaker but the curing of immobilize cripple and chill is a lifesaver in WvW. You die when you’re slowed in big fights.

And Elixir gun gained a stunbreaker so I can compensate since I use that one anyhow.

But other than those, I can’t fit any other on my bar since I’m currently using a FT-EG build.

Mostly I play this engineer Wiggely Wombat in WvW and some instances.
When grenades got boring a bit, I went back to Flamethrower – Elixir Gun. Together with the improved Rocket Boots I’m having a blast in WvW.

This meant I lost my easy mode zerg max ranged option…

Meantime I was leveling a ranger, Wobbely Wabbit, who was originally supposed to be more melee range than my engineer with grenades.
Now the engineer is more up close, and since yesterday the ranger is a longbow addict.
Short time to become an addict, but weirder things have happened.

In short: I have a flamethrowing engineer again (like I did the first months) and I have a sniper ranger.

Oh, and I have a lowby necro Meany Mouse (you can guess that Asuran look…) who might become a melee character, but I’ll wait till the storm blows over. Worst time to start a necro

A ranger wih a longbow, and an engineer with grenades.
(Those happen to be my two main characters.)

Both need 30 trait points at least to work at max 1500 range.

Both fly terribly slow, both are easy to avoid. I believe this is intended and how it should be: if you are at the privilige of attacking someone at 1500 range, the only thing he can do is have ways of avoiding some of your damage.

Grenades are easier to avoid than longbow by the way.
Grenades even have a red circle all the time to show you they are incoming, longbow only has that on barrage.

Longbow can hope to criple you first, grenades can hope to chill you first.

Versus groups I consider grenades the better aoe.
But retaliation says hi…

Against a single player, two things make the longbow stronger:
1. longbow 1-4 is direct targeted
2. longbow have auto-cast, grenades don’t.
I think longbow is the better weapon against a single target.

Main plus for the grenades, if not talking about long range only: grenades have no penalty when used at short range, even on the contrary: they are easier to land.

So to me longbow might be the better weapon against a single player at range, but grenades are the better weapon against groups.

Underwater my second skill slot is slick shoes. If I use it, it gets a cooldown, obviously.
When I go on land, my second slot is my grenade kit.
Last time i used my slick shoes just before going on land… I had a 40 second cooldown on MY GRENADE KIT!

I have other questions, and I do think the OP nailed it pretty good with his sum up.
So just throwing this little one out here: a cooldown on a kit, because of underwater sill usage? Seriously?

My main question here is: why?

Why does it have to be so tricky to pull of?
My ranger puts down a healing spring and has 15 seconds of a water field that isn’t prone to lag, bad timing, or any other issues.
Just an example, rangers aren’t engineers, but I do think they made it overly tricky on this one.

Short duration AND not being deployed immediately by default… one of these would have suffised.

You can get the timing to work for you, but again: why…

At first I didn’t think it should be ground targeted, as in: ranged.
But as you mention leap-rolling to the spot first, I think a 600 range would be very fitting.

Great idea like that: it gives more utility, but doesn’t touch the ‘logic’ of the skill by no longer being the ranger twirling his axes.

Nice idea, and good compromise, I like this.

Xsorus.2507:

As for running 3 traps, you can get by without the Poison one and the Chill one, the chill one though is nice if used, and could probably take the place of Flame Trap if using torch offhand…

I am not arguing those choices aren’t good by the way. I basically use a simular set-up.
But I am just curious to how other trap rangers solve these 2 issues.
That includes you of course. But since you made this post, I already had an idea of what you did

The reason I started using chill trap more, is because other people have told me that is the one trap they hate the most when fighting a ranger.
It’s funny, because it’s the only trap we have that does zero damage, heck: it doesn’t even aggro a mob if that’s all you use on it.

Poison trap does a lot of damage too, and poison helps for the reduced healing.
The main issue is that it does it’s damage very slooooowly. Where flam trap does the same in a few ticks.

The obvious choice seems spike trap and flame trap as base.
I do use torch ofhand, so I could indeed swap flame trap for chill or poison.

I usually run this in my trap build:
- axe-torch (my best condition appliers in one set, despite having no evade there)
- sword- warhorn for mobility and escape

Healing spring
Spike Trap
Flame (or snake)
Lighting Reflexes (or occasionaly chill trap)
Entangling Roots because it fits the build (even though RaO is ‘better’)

2 questions for all with trap builds out here:

1. do you consider stun breaker a must or not? Given a trap ranger usually has high toughness and maybe a protection proc.
If so: which do you prefer?

2. How do you go for speed?
Some use signet of the hunt, some use warhorn. But neither of these actually synergise well with a trap build.
Warhorn has zero condition damage, at best it boosts crit procs.
Signet of the hunt takes up a trap slot, which means you can only use 2. While I find 3 sort of logical.

My own preferences:
1. Lighting reflexes because I do big WvW fights often.
2. warhorn for lack of better ways to get speed.

But I’m really curious how you solve these issues, and mostly: why you make the choices you make.

Here’s the first draft of my Wobbely Wabbit.
Today he’s in olive shade colors to blend in a bit, as does his drake.

I tried it as a 0/0/30/30/10 version and I really liked it. Me and my drakes were rather tanky.
In WvW I solo’ed a camp with it, which is a pretty decent test of a build.

But the the sad part was that I tried using it in WvW group fights, and it quickly became clear what the weakness of this build was in bigger fights.

A shout build obviously relies on your pet, and even with all the healing and protection my drakes still died in any bigger fight.

That’s not the fault of the build of course, it’s a design fault.
After a few goes I switched to a full cc trap build to support my group in WvW.
For roaming this shout build works perfect though.

My biggest issue with fast cast is that in hectic moments for my pc (= bigger fights) that my mouse cursor actually gets lost sometimes.
Happens a lot in WvW.

Fast-casting + mouse cursor having a mind of it’s own = grenades all over the place

I went back to ground targeting recently, and I’m back to the practice dojo indeed.

I’m glad that they didn’t just ‘fix’ the bugg part and have it done with.
We knew it was coming if they considered it a bug that the effect stayed active when doing something else (I stomped with it, like most did with elixir S before).

Instead of just fixing, they actually gave us something in return: the full duration of the block even if hit in melee.

No idea wich was more usefull, that’s completely situational.
But at least I’m glad we got something in return to work with.

For me it wasn’t a nerf, it was a ‘change’.

I use a simular build, except a few details:

also grenadier, but my Master Trait is accelerant packed turrets, so my healing turret is a knockback.
Saves my life a lot of times: when you need the heal, you also knock them back…

I use pistol shield so I traited my shield instead of my pistols.
Which makes my build a 30/0/20/0/20 version.
Took protection proc as adept trait, invisability is fun too.

My third slot is Elixir gun in group fights (or pve). Even utterly untraited that thing is still superb utility and support.

But in all honesty: most of the time since the patch that third slot is Rocket Boots!
The new version is the best thing since condensed milk.
Condensed milk? Wtf??? Well, both are underrated, both aren’t the original thing anymore… but both saved more lives than you can count

I simply love Rocket boots new jump in WvW. It’s just incredibly awesome as escape.
No longer a stunbreaker, but still breaks cripple, immobilize and chill… so it gets you out of most situations.

100% condition duration for me as well.
Not for the damage, purely for the utility of it!
Throw Wrench alone, or Box of Nails, are simply endless cripple.
Chill grenades: hell yes.
Rocket Boots toolbelt Rocket Kick even burns for quite a bit, despite my power based build.
100% condition duration is a lot of cc in WvW.

I’m not the best 1v1 killer, more bunker than glass damage.
But in group settings, small or zerg, I can make a difference with this build.

Few adjusting patches later, with the tooltip still in eefect and all of that… think we have a keeper here.

Didn’t trust it at first, but by now I would be very surprised if they would still remove it.

A stunbreaker on an acceptable coodlown, that adds a nice little regen when you likely need it.
On a kit, or even better: on the toolbelt of a kit.
Who would have thought

Last night messing about in WvW, I noticed that the pull usually only works halfway… if it lands that is.
Often it missed, but from my engineer experience I know that the Tool Kit pull is easy to avoid as well.
But when it did pull, my target ended up a bit in front of me, not even melee range.

Bit odd.
Always many things going on in WvW, so not sure what the cause is.
On dummies it does pull closer.

I like the EG-FT combo a lot, and EG is not leaving my bar now that it got an added stunbreaker.
So that leaves only room for one gadget.

But to be honest: I like them so much I’m thinking of dropping my Flamethrower.
Not sure yet, FT is a lot of utility too. Not to mention a good group weapon.

EG is staying, and most likely Rocket Boots as well.
So the choice is: mine, slick shoes perhaps, or the FT after all.

Becks.6528:

Rocket Boots lost their stun breaker, making them much less interesting for wvw…

they still clear immobilize, cripple and chill. So aside stuns themselves, or dazes of course, they can still get you out of a lot of situations in WvW group fights.

I’m not taking elixir gun of my bar anymore now, having a condition removal, extra healing, leap back and a stunbreaker on the toolbelt is just too good to pass on.

So I’m back to an old FT-EG and Rocket Boots build I had before.
The EG Healing Mist breaks my stun and heals me up a bit, the Rocket Boots get me out of there even if I have other cc on me…

GuilguiS.2738:

Of course you can!! Put it on a trait. Something like Thumper and Flame turret overcharge break stun 35 sec CD.

his point is that this would mean that you can’t use their overcharge freely when you need their real effects (like the blind of the flame turret) because you would waste your stunbreaker that you might need 10 seconds later.

I would give turrets passive buffs for the engineer, like some traits: 33% less stunduration, gain protection when stunned if turret is out… etc.

But for that to work, turrets need to survive aoe, wvw groups, and bosses first… which they don’t.

Mif.3471:

Come to think of it, this new dev trend of putting stun breakers on Tool Belt skills makes Inertial Converter (15 points in Tools) much more powerful.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inertial_Converter

a reset on a stunbreaker is incredibly powerfull.
You know you’ll get it again, so you can safely use it above 25% first.

I fully agree with you here. This is a very strong improvement.

Kamahl.3621:

“Smelling Salts”

I like that one.

Kilger.5490:

I was just about to take elixer gun off my utility bar in favor of rocket boots. With this change I may just want both…

before I caved in to grenades and healing bombs for some pve, I used to run with FT-EG and Rocket Boots a lot, just for the sheer fun of it.

Think I’ll go for the fun again, sod it with the more practical design of the allpowerfull grenades…

Would like turrets though, but the traits are still all over the place.

Guess I’ll be experimenting again

Mif.3471:

Kimbald.2697:

Mif.3471:

It’s a handy buff, but I don’t like skills that have a secondary use that’s more powerful than their primary use.

When you can’t use it as a small heal because you’ll throw the MUCH more powerful stunbreak on cooldown, you have a tree falling in the woods kinda deal.

if it stays this way, than the skill is now a stunbreaker that adds some aoe regen.
Never again will it be seen as a regen skill, the regen is now a fun little side-effect.

Precisely!

Perhaps they should rename it to something more appropriate.

‘Clearing Mist’

Mif.3471:

It’s a handy buff, but I don’t like skills that have a secondary use that’s more powerful than their primary use.

When you can’t use it as a small heal because you’ll throw the MUCH more powerful stunbreak on cooldown, you have a tree falling in the woods kinda deal.

if it stays this way, than the skill is now a stunbreaker that adds some aoe regen.
Never again will it be seen as a regen skill, the regen is now a fun little side-effect.

Tolmos.8395:

Didn’t see much of anything done with turrets this patch. I’m guessing anet just gave up on us turreteers and decided there were so few of us it wasn’t even worth the development time to fix our bugs / bad designs

Shame…

they gave the toolbelt of Thumper Turret a stunbreak.
Bit odd for a turret, since the idea is that the turret is out in the fight and the toolbelt is unreachable…

They lowered toolbelt recharge of Rocket Turret.
Well: the cooldown issue of Rocket Turret wasn’t the toolbelt alone…

They increased the damage of Rifle Turret Toolbelt, which was needed.
Nice little buff for SD buids.

But the general idea this patch was: toolbelt… toolbelt… toolbelt.
Wich poses the question: wouldn’t it be better if turrets got improved at STAYING ALIVE???
Instead of improving their toolbelts as if you’re saying: we know they will die in seconds anyhow, so you might as well have a decent toolbelt…

digiowl.9620:

Gives some value to the 40s cooldown regen boon, as the heal itself was meh for that amount of cooldown.

I agree it is a perfect place to add some spice.

Also the elixir gun is a great support kit, so it’s not a real issue of being overpowered.

But since it’s not in the patch notes… I’m really afraid for this one.
It’ll be clear soon: either hotfixed or mentioned in an update of the notes.

Byuu.2308:

I haven’t really played the game much at all for a while, but I haven been following the patch notes periodically and it looks like Elixir X and the Mortar are pretty much he same as they always were with the same flaws that can’t really be fixed by changing numbers.

Is there any engineer that doesn’t use the Supply Drop?

sometimes in tpvp engineers use Elixir X because it gives them the option to knock people of a point.
Also because it’s an elixir after all, and it works for their HGH build anyhow.

As I said: ‘sometimes’…
I don’t think it’s common practice, and I have no clue if it happens at the serious levels.
But I’ve seen it here or there, and once or twice someone mentioned doing this on the forums.

Aside these rare cases… no, almost every engineer uses supply drop I’m sure.

The Hermit.3542:

I really hope this wasn’t something unintended and is just missing from the patch notes.

I’m really not sure about this one.

It wasn’t in the leaked notes, and it wasn’t in the actual patch notes which indeed were identical to the leaked notes.

I’m really afraid we have another overnight hotfix coming our way…

Not to mention it has a minimum range, so you can’t even defend yourself with the knockback or heal.
Those two at least need to have zero range.

And it’s stationary but hits less than traited grenades.

pure damage wise, on brainless dummies who don’t move or don’t hit back… grenades still win on damage.
Now what if those dummies move or hit back?
Than grenades would win even more compared to the Mortar.

I’m not sure what I find more depressing: the fact they ignored it for so long, or now that they finally look at it, they come up with this very meaningless changes…
If this is what they do to ‘improve’ it, than I guess this is what they expect from the elite skill.

Absolutely terrible design there, no way around it.

The big trait patch has arrived, all professions are being stirred and rattled.
When all the noise settles down, I see this incredible missed opportunity.

Dear Dev’s: was it too hard to merge the turret traits?
This is the patch where that had to happen!

Why is Accelerant-Packed Turrets up there alone in the Explosives line???
That is NOT the Turret line, we have Inventions and Tools already for Turrets. So what the heck is that trait doing in Explosives still?

And what’s worse: why isn’t this simply baseline behaviour of all turrets?

Another thing: why not merge the 30% less damage with the self-healing? Both are too weak as seperate traits.
This was the patch to merge weak traits, remember…

You try to buff Turrets in many ways the last few patches, but simple things like this you just miss…

Go over the Turret traits, all of them.
You will see that a full traited turret build uses 20/0/30/0/10 or 20/0/30/0/20 if you count Tool Kit Repairing with that.
That’s 60 or even 70 FULL trait points just to take all turret traits.

I can understand choices, but at least put the choices closer together!

Such a build has NOTHING left to trait for engineer damage, or for defenses!

As a sidenote: a stunbreaker on a turret TOOLBELT is sort of asking us to not leave it out, isn’t it?
Bit contradictionary with your intention for turrets.
But than again: picking up or even exploding healing Turret is also the better usage of that turret… something you perhaps missed as well last patch.

Im amazed at several missed chances in Trait merging this patch, but the turret ones must be the worst part.
Of all the traits that needed merging, turret traits were in the most need of cleaning up.

How could you let this pass this way?

This is a wonderful write-up indeed.

Quite possibly next patch will stirr things up a little, if not a lot… But starting from this list it will be a lot more clear to see what pets are usable outside of BM or not.

Thanks for your time of doing this, a few months ago but still
I’m sure you’ll be adding the changes to this next week.

- set spike trap or chilling trap a your feet, use Path of scars in the untriggered trap.
You pull, they trigger trap.
Benefit compared to using roots: my experience as engineer with a pull showed me they always dodge if you manage to pull them, they always always do.
You might waste your elite skill if they are really fast.

- use the shout ‘guard’ with the new trait for a pet with swiftness and protection, and regen that is chasing an enemy in stealth…
Swiftness is the new thing here: guard just became ‘fetch’.
Guard has a 1200 rage, if the enemy is in the ‘guarded zone’ the pet will attack it if it’s not on passive anymore.

- Shared Anguish: unchanged, pet takes stun etc from you
Combined with new ‘stability training’: bears etc don’t just get stability when disabled, but simply ignore the effect.
Depending on how ‘disabled’ is defined with the changes, this means that bears simply eat your stun and even gain stability for it.
I know, I know… bears… but at least they got to be a little more usefull now, even if they still do next to no damage.

Main reason why this last one is a theorycrafted one: not many people take 20 points in BM line and use… a bear!
But who knows.

Tracker.6483:

Does the pull knock them down at your feet?

remains to be seen, but if it works like my engineer pull, it will at least interrupt them at melee range, making it always usefull even if the target is close.

Interrupt, not a real knockdown or stunning mechanism.
But a melee interupt is a nice little extra usage for what is designed as a ranged pull.

runeblade.7514:

It should do immobilize when it travels away and then pull when it travels back.

Otherwise it’ll be too easy to avoid the pull.

you are right that a normal pull is too easy to avoid. My engineer Tool Kit has a pull like that that many avoid indeed.
I miss a lot with my Tool Kit pull, and even if it works they dodge the moment they land (tip: dodge as well and roll alongside of them…)

Don’t forget that in any kind of group fight a pull is a death sentence for your target.
If it works, that’s why it should give them the opportunity to avoid it.

So yep: it will fail a lot…
Does this mean it should be made stronger, and immobilise or something in the same skill?

No, I don’t think it should be made stronger.

Path of scars has a very short cooldown for a pull, it also has very good damage added in that pull.
It will be extremely strong as it is.

Yes, it will be avoided very often, but no: that is not a bad thing.
It will be far from useless, even if not fail proof.

That’s how the best skills should be: balanced.

Manekk.6981:

Don’t you think I know how unreliable it is? short of an official statement from arenanet everything would be, but this is a forum for discussion so I’m asking peoples opinion and this is a good example (thief notes) because as you say I feel the thief class to be too strong in certain areas and it makes it hard for me to believe they would recieve so many buffs in one swoop but many others know the class better than I do and might disagree if so I’d like to hear why.

I agree very much that a simple statement could take away all the doubt and confusion, but I think they are between a rock and a hard place here:

if they say they are true, than they admitted to the leak AND they released patch notes too early and and have a discussion at hand before their normal release moment.

If they come out and say the leaked notes are false, they better BE all false or people will call them liars.
Not to mention they will have officially caved in to forum complaints based on third party rumours…

So while I agree, I fully understand why they keep quiet till patch day.

Small suggestion: they could solve most of this in an unofficial way, like doing an imprompt State of the Game interview or something.

I can’t believe all the leaked notes either, but that doesn’t mean they won’t be true
Engineers get a trait that gives extra damage for each condition on the target… not sure if you play an engineer, but conditions are their strongest build!
Only saving grace there is that a standard HGH grenade build has 30/0/0/30/0 at least and the new trait isn’t in those 30 lines. But people will abuse that trait nonetheless.
None grenade HGH builds will abuse that new trait like there is no tomorrow.

Manekk.6981:

Kimbald.2697:

Manekk.6981:

Puru.4217:

Thieves notes are more huge nerfs which will result in pigeon holing the class into using D/P more than anything else. The buff are useless in most case with some few exceptions being the trickery tree + steal, panic strike and the shadow trap.

How are you seeing “huge nerfs” in there? did I miss something it’s pretty much buffs across the board not all as good as the other of course but that is always the case.

this is my point by the way: when looking at the thief changes he sees nerfs, you see buffs… this means that the thief changes are not so blatantly unlikely that the whole leaked notes must be false!

Not to interfere with you two discussing the thief changes, but when your goal is to determine if the ranger changes are false, based on these thief changes… I’m afraid it is pointless.

Well you’re clearly not interested in the discussion so just leave us to want it alone then.

Look at your title again please.

I am hodling the discussion of the title.
I am saying your method to come to that conclusion is wrong.

So yes, I am interested in the discussion of the title question, and my contribution, in several posts, is that you have a flawed way of deducting this.

I don’t want to do this in a hostile way, I simply don’t agree with your method.
Nothing more and nothing less.
No need to let things get ugly over disagreeing.

If you want to discuss thief changes, feel free.
if you want to discuss ranger changes, or possible changes: feel free and I might join in there.

You wrote a topic about how the leaked notes could be false, and I’m discussing this. I see no reason to leave the discussion you started, when I am indeed discussing the very topic you put out here.

Manekk.6981:

Puru.4217:

Thieves notes are more huge nerfs which will result in pigeon holing the class into using D/P more than anything else. The buff are useless in most case with some few exceptions being the trickery tree + steal, panic strike and the shadow trap.

How are you seeing “huge nerfs” in there? did I miss something it’s pretty much buffs across the board not all as good as the other of course but that is always the case.

this is my point by the way: when looking at the thief changes he sees nerfs, you see buffs… this means that the thief changes are not so blatantly unlikely that the whole leaked notes must be false!

Not to interfere with you two discussing the thief changes, but when your goal is to determine if the ranger changes are false, based on these thief changes… I’m afraid it is pointless.

a few small postive notes, that could end up better:

- am I mistaken, or is my snow owl getting buffed? He doesn’t blind, and he doesn’t bleed, and his auto-attack gets stronger?
Very odd, in the line of pet nerfs.

- if the shout ‘guard’ remains unchanged, coupled with the new grandmaster trait, an adept trait and possibly even runes of the soldier… that could end up being an incredibly versatile utility for me, my pet and even my party.
30% boon duration and we’re talking permanent everything here: protection on pet, party swiftness and regen, and every 10 seconds my pet stealths and I might remove a stack of conditions.
I realise it’s a lot of traiting and such, but it’s not that you can’t come up with a bunker-supportbuild that includes those.

- axes got a bit better, a pull is always a fun thing to play with.
It does make ofhand axe a bit more versatile as a melee option as well.
Sword – axe, and a longbow won’t be all that uncommon.

Not saying this outweighs the other changes. I can’t judge the total picture yet.
Just picking out some small things I would like to play with.

Manekk.6981:

Kimbald.2697:

So you want to discuss thief traits, to see if they might be fake, in order to conclude that the ranger traits might be false as well?

What possible insight could this bring?

Just checking if I get the motives for your post correct.

My answer: they might be true, they might not be true, some might be true.
Yes, the thief changes seem odd and overdoing it. No, this doesn’t say anything about the leaked ranger changes.

Bottom line: patch notes will be out in a few days.

The motive is as stated to figure out if they are real because the large number of buffs here in the thief notes made me wonder if that could actually be accurate.

It might be that these notes are real and all considered but only some of these will make it through next week also, that seems not totally unlikely to me.

you can’t figure out if they are real, not by any method.
The fact that you consider the thief changes so very unlikely does not say anything about the leaked notes being real or not.
It might simply say something about your view on the thief profession…

Even if these leaked notes were true at some point, things can already be changed a bit.
They might also be incomplete and not include other nerfs or buffs.

I still do not see how discussing thief changes is a good way to conclude if the total notes are possible or not.
It’s not that the thief changes are so incredibly over the top that they just have to be a joke. At worst they are changes that you consider unlikely because you see them as buffs to a profession you already consider too strong.
I don’t like these thief changes to be honest, but do I think they are so extreme that the notes just have to be false?
Nope… they could be true, despite my opinion of them.

These thief changes ‘might’ be true even if you or me consider them too extreme.
This immediately removes all possibility to conclude that the leaked patch notes are true or false.

Patch is in a few days, that’s the only way to know if these changes were real, and if they were complete, and if they remained unchanged since that point.

Not trying to be a jerk here, just pointing out that your intention isn’t a reliable way to check if the leaked notes are real, or even could be real.

Jay The Dude.5830:

Setun.4368:

Jay The Dude.5830:

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/400x/23709346.jpg

You people are so Petty….and Tiny

Omg this made my day lmao! Bravo sir, bravo.

Well I’m Happy to hear that some Good Came from this post, it saddens me that the arguing continues,

This topic was created to fuel the arguing!
It’s not because the OP is on the side of those not complaining, that the post is not simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

No matter what side it’s coming from, posts telling the other side how wrong they are, serve only the purpose of fueling the discussion.

My own view is simple: I’ll read the patch notes when they come out, and take it from there.
The leaked notes do give me some things to consider and try out for now, but I don’t see them as actual changes yet.

This said: this very thread adds nothing but hostility to the discussion, it does not calm things at all, nor does it intend to.
The only effect of the OP is to stirr things up and tell others how terribly wrong and shortsighted they are.

It’s mostly the title by the way, the post itself is pretty normal.
But just as the doomsayers, the interpretation of the OP is fortune telling as well, but with different colored glasses.
Which is fair enough. But with that title it’s clear it’s meant to stirr things up.

So you want to discuss thief traits, to see if they might be fake, in order to conclude that the ranger traits might be false as well?

What possible insight could this bring?

Just checking if I get the motives for your post correct.

My answer: they might be true, they might not be true, some might be true.
Yes, the thief changes seem odd and overdoing it. No, this doesn’t say anything about the leaked ranger changes.

Bottom line: patch notes will be out in a few days.

Homonavn.6348:

Didnt get of the map, but i took this while RoF was against FoW and vabbi…

that one is hilarious.
Which makes it pretty dam depressing I’m sure.

Here’s ours, and believe it or not: it gotten a bit better the last hours… on other moments it was even more imbalanced.

Fror.2163:

Kimbald.2697:

Fror.2163:

Well, you should say that on the map/team chat, not here on the forum. A minority of players will come and see this page: the map chat issue should be addressed when it occurs.

I said it on map chat. I spoke up every time the complaints started.

Not towards TEO by the way, since I only was around when it happened towards WBC in EB.

I added it here because this is the place for the discussions, and also because you can read it at your own time here.

Well, don’t worry. I’m not telling you didn’t do it: I wasn’t there so I cannot state anything about it I’m only saying that you will not see much over here in the forum because compared to the map chat, very few people outside of TEO, WBC and WAR will see it.

You’re right of course, not many will see it.
But if they do: here is a more relaxed place to discuss it.

It won’t change much of course, in the mentality of those who made their minds up about ‘the others’.

Best of luck to TEO, WBC or any other guild looking for some decent fights in this mess.

And for the randoms out there: just hang in there and find something, no matter how small.
Get grub raids going if all else fails. Hopefully it will be better next week for us.

And don’t mind the kittenstorm too much, it’s normal that people vent their frustration.

Johje Holan.4607:

Everyone complaning needs to embrace the art of the 2v1. It will give you fun and a feeling of accomplishment. It will allow you to have fights that are more balanced.

Is it going to work every time, no. Are you going to win the match, no. Is it going to help ET and FC? I don’t know, have you all tried? Is it going to work against SoR? I don’t know, have you tried? Maybe SoR is too godlike for it to work.

But I’ll still bet you it will work at certain times and maps for every single server when faced with a single dominant server.

The source of the complaints is the feeling of being overwhelmed while in game. A 2v1 on the powerful server will take away that feeling of being overwhelmed because you turn a two front war into a one front war.

We, the players need to make it fun, no matter the hand we are delt.

our 2 losing servers add up to just below 50% of the dominant server.
That’s how bad it can be.

Fror.2163:

Well, you should say that on the map/team chat, not here on the forum. A minority of players will come and see this page: the map chat issue should be addressed when it occurs.

I said it on map chat. I spoke up every time the complaints started.

Not towards TEO by the way, since I only was around when it happened towards WBC in EB.

I added it here because this is the place for the discussions, and also because you can read it at your own time here.

I want pve mobs to have a strategic function.

Hylek, dredge, ogres are perfect.

‘Normal’ animals should have a trigger to start spouting cc if a group passes: the bigger the group, the longer the cc and harder to kill these animals are.

Guards should scale on player proximity, like bosses.
More players and they hit like champions, less players and they hit like veterans.
And yes: big patrols would be great, IF they scale on player numbers!

And lastly: the champions, the devourers of player forces, like the Grub, Spirit, Harpy.
They should have a clear strategic reason to be killed. Let them attack camps for example, or break down walls. Let them sense any big zerg in their wide proximity and attack that very zerg.

I see 2 possibilities here:
1. give all npc’s and pve a function in the pvp strategy
2. use npc’s to discourage zerging

Thrumdi.9216:

Who wants to bet that when this “rebalancing” is over the match-ups will be exactly the same as they were before it started? (Give or take a server or two).

my point exactly.

Out of 20 servers with such differences, there are only a few that can match your own server to some degree.
No matter the system used…

1. That’s about the only thing WSR guilds can do this week: run seperate and hope to get some things done, or get some fun fights.
I understand the bigger guilds trying to do guildraids only. It’s not that they can make a difference in the score anymore…

So I think the complaining in chat is unnneeded.

2. This said: I think it’s the worst for all the randoms and very small guilds!

As a random, as a small group, you can do almost absolutely nothing at all.
The bigger guilds can at least hope for a decent fight and work on raid tactics.
For all the randoms this week is an absolute waste.

That’s where a lot of the frustration comes from: most players can’t do a single thing in WvW at the moment. So when they see a bigger guild running, they hope they could run along and at least get some action…

There are always two sides of the story, and I can relate to both.

3. My guild did some minor actions here and there and got a keep or a tower back at times… untill the next zerg arrived.
But alone I tried roaming a bit, doing some solo stuff. Well, I can tell you that it was absolutely boring. Every corner I ran into mobs of players.

So the guild raids aside, it’s not just that the score is meaningless for us, it’s that the random players can’t even have ‘fun’ anywhere in WvW.
I fully understand they aren’t happy and cling to whatever they can to get some fun fights.

4. So while I understand both the solo running guilds, as the frustrated randoms: could we all stop the chat abuse a bit please?
Taking it out on each other is not going to help anything…

Just a side-thought:

There are so few servers overall, who all have pretty big differences in coverage and numbers.
We are talking about 20 odd servers, possibly less in the future if merges would happen.
Of those 20, exactly how many can possibly match the coverage and numbers of your own server?

Let’s say this system will indeed balance out and end up being good at equal matching.
Than, just like the old system, it would have to match you against those few servers that are simular to yours…

How many servers will be ‘equal’ to match against your own server? No matter the system used for this matching.

Don’t we simply risk ending up with a new system, that matches your server against the same 2 or 3 opponents over and over again?

After all: if the system balances out, you can only have so many matching servers…
The randomness can not be this great that it creates more blowous like now, else it would be an unbalanced system.
So, purely by being a good matchmaking system, it would have to put your server against those servers that match.

Wouldn’t that be just like the old system than?