Guild Wars 2

SchiTown.7598:

Somebody else has brought this up, but why take ft over bombs? Well, ft has a number of advantages:

1. Low cd knock back
2. Safer (longer range) non-projectile damage, very useful for cleaving
3. Instant 200 toughness whenever you need it
4. Might stacking (although I admit its not too much) that doesn’t consume blast finishers
5. Incendiary ammo is very strong

Obviously bombs have their own strengths, I’m not going to say this is better in every situation. My point is just that ft can be very strong in a balanced build (although this leans more towards offense).

-Spoon

I agree with you actually, but that also makes my point:

if bombs have ‘simular’ utility, not the same cooldowns etc… but still comparable utility, than why does a Flamethrower less damage?

both have their uses, both have their strenghts and weaknesses, both are a ‘more or less’ melee kit.
But bombs do very high damage, whil even a fully traited and geared flamethrower doesn’t outperform a pretty basic bomb set up.

That’s wrong in my view.
Both are ‘utility’ so both should do comparable damage too.

Note how the OP asked about zerg fights.
Bombs hit 5 targets all around you.
Flamethrower hits 3.

That alone makes the Bomb kit outperform the Flamethrower by 5 to 3 in a zerg!
IF they would do the same damage, which they do not.
Bombs do more per target AND hit 66% more targets during the fight…

Zefrost.3425:

The reflection trait is the only reason to ever use them IMO.

healing turret, rifle turret and flame turret give you a near permanent uptime of the reflection if you swap them constantly..
But that also means your turrets aren’t doing much else… and neither are you for that matter.

Combine these 3 with grenades for a good trolling build at keep fights
It’s really really awesome trolling entire defensive zergs on their wall. They will hate you so much their thieves will start jumping down just to pick you out.
But that does require a 6/0/6/0/0 build to start with, leaving you 2 points only to actually get something else in that build.

Bombs offer the same utility of a flamethrower, if not better.
bombs offer it in a painfully boring way of course, all skills do the same thing over and over… but the Bomb kit gives a blind field, fire field, a knockback that does significant damage, 5 man aoe instead of 3 man cleave,…
I don’t see what a FT offers that a bomb kit doesn’t. Cooldowns are different of course, but than again: so are durations and range. But all in all they seem to offer a lot of simular utility.
Traited bombs can aoe heal for a lot, where FT of course can offer might, given that the might drops fast if swapping out of the kit.

Not saying bomb utility is that much better, but it’s at least as good as FT utility in the end.

Now look at the damage…
Bombs outperform FT by a LARGE margin!

People keep bringing up th the Flamethrower is more of an utility kit and shouldn’t be seen as a pure damage kit.

My argument is: bombs offer a crapload of utility too, but that kit is allowed some damage potential the Flamethrower is not getting even fully traited.

I would run a Elixir Gun – Toolkit – Flamethrower build, but instead I run EG and TK with Healing Bombs in a power build.
EG and FT have great trait synergy, they make a very rounded build possible.
But in the end the damage of the bombs, added to their high healing potential (for a damage kit) and their equal utility just makes me feel stupid to take the FT over the Bombs.

And yes: I am talking about WvW, which is most of what I do here.
FT is outclassed by bombs any day in a zerg, even by grenades of course but let’s compare the ‘melee’ options.
Fully traited bombs heal 5 players for at least 200 per 1/2 second, and that’s in a totally non-healing power build. And they do a lot of direct damage which is what you want in a zerg.
If you simply not use the silly healing trait for the bombs, you free up points to make your build do even a lot more damage!
FT hits 3 people in front of you, and the #2 skill has a lot of potential, so that makes up for the #1 a lot.
The damage is there, but as soon as you try bombs you notice the difference.
Still it takes a lot more button presses than just spamming your #1 bomb in a zerg while taking care of surviving…

That’s the weird thing: bombs are soooo much easier to use than a FT in a zerg… yet they are allowed higher damage. It should be equal, if not the other way around…

Without exagerating: Bombs must be one of the easiest to use melee weapons in the game, for real. And they are aoe on top of that!
Yet they are given more damage than other kits who require a lot more skill to land hits with. I find that weird design…

For the record: Tool kit is a melee kit too and should be used in this comparison. As good as it is, damage wise in a zerg it’s an utter waste… even 1v1 it fails as a main damage skill. It’s slow and in the end does not enough damage compared to the other options.

tldr: FT is an awesome kit, and if fully specced, the damage seems ok.
But in the end it’s still lacking as a damage kit, at least compared to bombs or grenades. The damage potential is there… but once you start comparing you notice the difference.
While there is no real argument why it should do less than Bombs in terms of being ‘a utility kit’…

very nice answers you got there.

I have a small note on question 5 about the elixir cooldown trait:

Elixir Gun also lists 2 skills as elixir (#2 and #5).
These will NOT get reduced cooldown from this trait. Simply because they are not ‘real’ elixirs.

There is a trait reducing Elixir Gun and Flamethrower cooldowns.
If the elixir trait worked as well, those 2 ‘elixir’ skills from the EG would get double reduction… which is not how things are intended, each skill only gets one option for a cooldown reduction, not two.

Dragonax.6487:

Siege inside keep and tower should not decay. However, there should be a limitation on the amount of siege u can put down in a keep or tower.

very simple, very balanced.

This should do it, really.

I would allow a reset with a time limit on it.

You should not be able to go from ac master to treb master, to whatever… just because you do something different all the time.

But yes: it would be nice to have a weekly reset option or something. Just to try out different things, set new details to your role, or simply correct things you don’t like after all.

Siege outside of keeps: decay over time so it doesn’t stay and take up ‘room’ in the siege cap.

Siege inside a keep: does not decay, so it doesn’t need the silly refreshing all the time. It should NOT count towards the ‘outside world’ siege cap, ever. So trolls can’t build siege like crazy in a keep and limit the rams you can put up elsewhere.

Would this be too simple as a solution?

No trolling possible.
Yet no refreshing needed (I refresh a lot by the way).
And no re-using of siege that is left at walls outside etc…

I use EG in a power bomb build. Where I have healing bombs with larger radius and 10% on explosions.
I have 2k power and EG is part of my damage abilities, not just for the healing field…

The last slot is either tool kit or Rocket boots since I scout a lot in WvW and rocket boots are my ticket out of trouble

It’s a bit ofa troll build though, since with EG #5, healing bombs and the fact that I sneak in Backpack regenerator in there as well… I sort of heal more than I should.

But in the end as a scout I need to survive when i turn around the corner and happen to run into half the enmy zerg I’m looking for…

When i do join the zerg, the bombs still hit for 1k minimum non crit, and they heal my zergies around me, so it’s a good mix.
Yes: EG power damage is very helpfull in big fights too: swap from bombs to EG, proccing my sigil of Hydromancy: I chill those around me and jump out with EG#4. Those ticks land… all of them

Just for the EG in a power build:

set up your power gear, and than look at the damage the silly bouncy thing EG #2 does… it hits not bad.
It also jumps: it can jump from them (400 damage minimum) to you, to them (another 400 but likely more), to you.

Now look at what that EG #5 jump does… per tick!
If you manage to cc anyone in that jump, they will be hurting real bad.
If all 5 ticks hit (unlikely) than we’re talking 3 to 4 k damage without counting crits. in a very moderate power build (2k power at most). In reality it’s more.
Do that in a full zerker build, and you’re talking a lot more.

Of course they don’t Always stay in that spot the entire 5 ticks. Even just one or two ticks is worth it for the damage alone. And that’s not mentioning the fact that you really use it for the jump itself.

As for the rest: EG #3 and EG#5:
The poison cloud you use for the less healing, that’s also good in a power build…
The healing light field, well: that’s totally distinct from the damage you do anyhow.

Yes: EG #1 autoattack is primarily a bleed and weakness stacker.
But that doesn’t make the EG a condition weapon only, not by a long shot!

Fai.6093:

I decided to give grenth a try.
Does the chill duration also work on the chill when I get struck / swap weapon or use a heal?

yes, but remember it goes in full seconds (since chill stacks duration like burn and not in ammount like burning).
So in order to make that 2 second chill into a 3 second chill, you’ll need the runes of grenth and 2 giver’s weapons, or the ruunes of grenth and 4 points in Explosives traitline, or the runes and the chill duration sigil together with your sigil of Hydromancy… etc.

People hate chill, that’s why I love it

Zach.3264:

Very similar to the build I run at the moment.

Excellent survivability, good pressure from conditions and turrets are amazing boons and damage.

My first game I using this build I managed to win a 3v1 at home point. Was pretty thrilled.

Nice to see a pistol and shield are enough for a build to work.
It’s not often those are used as only weapon.

A question about the sigils in your build: are they really the ones you use?
They proc on crit, while you have about 4%.
And they both do white ‘power’ damage, while you’re build for condition damage.

I absolutely love runes of grenth, have done for ages!
And a fun sidenote: they’re cheap as dirt.

Chill is the condition I find the most annoying, so I decided that’s the condition I want to use the most

My favourite healing combo:
put down a healing turret, and overcharge: that heals me but it chills them!
Than explode the turret and in my case that knocks them back as well
And the latest addition: they are knockbacked and still chilled, and I stand under a relfecting bubble with more health, 2 conditions less and a regen ticking while they shoot themselves in the foot…

Yup, I also consider runes of grenth my ‘secret weapon’.
Might from strenght is better, burn from Balthazar is better… but Grenth is more annoying and that’s what I aim for in a fight.
I’m not the killer in our group, I’m the one who draws them out. I’m the one who annoys them so much they want to kill me.
Yes: I am Baitman!

Stark.1350:

Kimbald.2697:

Stark.1350:

I’m using rocket, rifle and flame turret in sPvP and absolutely dominate.

they stay alive long enough, or are you using them to be instantly detonated?

Good to hear by the way, in wvw they still don’t live long. But the reflect is wonderfull

I don’t have any issues keeping them alive in sPvP. I don’t detonate them, not even the healing turret. To be honest, I stack all of them on one point, along with supply crate. I run the reflect shield and the new trait that allows turrets to give buffs. Thieves stand no chance against me, and I find the constant blind from flame turret frustrates people.

I can survive 2 on 1’s and 3 on 1’s for a long time. And it’s funny as hell watching people ping themselves to death on the reflect shields when they’re not paying attention.

As for WvW, turrets are still an issue as they die quickly to AoE – HOWEVER. The reflect shield is incredibly nice for choke points.

As for dungeons, turrets seem to do just fine.

Last night I ran grenades in wvw, with healing turret, flame turret and/or flame turret and rocket boots if not the third turret.
I had 6 points to get grenadier obviously, and 6 points to get the turret reflect.
I took accelerant packed turrets in that line, for the knockback as well.
last 2 points I actually took the elixir S at 25% just as an escape…

I haven’t had this much fun in ages!

My guild was laughing on TS as I constantly baited and trolled entire defnse zergs just by overextending, throwing grenades at them on the walls, and than putting down reflecting turrets as they tried to hit me.
It was a blast.
Rocket boots if they were about to get me (thieves jumping down etc), the elixir S popping when it got really hot…

Small fights as well: put down the turrets when rezzing, when fighting, when fleeing… my guild are convinced: the reflecting, knocking back turrets are simply awesome.

Supply crate suddenly became the best elite ever.

I wish I could incorporate the boons in the build, but I have to stick to the grenades for such fights: the range advantage is vital.
Had I used a tool kit to hit them on their walls, I wouldn’t have the same effect I think…

Did the turrets stayed alive?
No, never.
But I didn’t use them for that.

My main gripe is the fact that turret traits are again too scattered over the place.
At least include acclerant packed turrets in one of the grnadmasters, or frankly: give it baseline for all turrets.
And i don’t like having to spend 12 points to get the boons and the reflect. Make one of those 4 points, or merge them or so.
Like grenadier: more grenades AND longer range. You can’t use grenades without it, but at least it’s ONE trait.
Or flamethrower: 4 points juggernaut and 4 points deadly mixture.
2 grandmaster traits for the same turrets is overdoing it.

Things could improve, yes. But as it stands I really really love the reflect grandmaster trait! I don’t think I’ll ever run without it in WvW again.

(useless in real zerg fights, but I could use healing bombs there for the same build…)

Stark.1350:

I’m using rocket, rifle and flame turret in sPvP and absolutely dominate.

they stay alive long enough, or are you using them to be instantly detonated?

Good to hear by the way, in wvw they still don’t live long. But the reflect is wonderfull

my best use for it, but so very situational:

ranged attacking you, or your siege/friends?
drop fire turret, leave for 4 seconds, pick it up.
drop flame turret, leave for 4 seconds, pick it up
drop healing turret, leave for 4 seconds, pick it up…
use shield reflect if bored.
drop fire turret, leave for 4 seconds… blah blah.

it works, if ranged is your only worry.
one melee on you and your turrets die to cleavage, cleaving… cleaving.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Your suggestion to turn out best support kit into a DD kit are horrendous.

Little needs to change with this kit. The main change it needs is for the elixir F to be adjusted so it actually hits mobile targets.

Acid Bomb is spectacular.
Super elixir is great.
Fumigate works well and is a great AoE cleanse.
Tranquilizer Dart does a great debuff and has a healthy stack of bleeds.

notice that i’m not changing it at all.
I’m merely pointing out it’s illogical that it shares all traits with flamethrower except Juggernaut.
And yes: it could use that, if only for the toughness. but the might won’t hurt the kit, or make it any way less supportive.
It’s not like it would end up being overpowered either.
It would make it better rounded as a fully functional kit, that is all.

I agree on the fumigate to be better hitting of course, and I would let the orbs fly faster as well, they are too easy to avoid the first hit, which makes the bounce less reliable as well.

all traits effect Flamethrower and Elixir Gun alike (except the range one) but the one that SHOULD effect Elixir Gun is… Juggernaut.
Give that thing some punch already

a toggle on/off can not be hard to implement.
Show it or not show it… I’m sure any game can handle this much of a visual parameter.

They don’t want to… can’t draw any other conclusion.

How to figure out you’re fighting an engineer dropping bombs: run behind him and focus on his backpack! It’s a foolproof recipe to fight him.

God forbid that engineer throwing stuff from far away, with red cirkles under your feet, would be unrecognisable without a hobo sack for being grenade specced.

And yes: you need that backpack to see it’s a flamethrower! Once you see beyond the sea of fire in your face at all, of course.

Engineer with a melee weapon? Dam, if only i could see his backpack to see if he’s using toolkit or not! I have to know! What if he is using another melee weapon?

Frankly: only Elixir Gun might be less recognisable by it’s shot, give or take a green smoke jet… but in all honesty: why would you care if he’s shooting you with an Elixir gun?

…

Aimless.7251:

I request some minor changes to Elixir C, as follows.

Type: Elite

Duration: 60 sec
Recharge: 180 sec
Shout: “Oh god oh god oh god.”

Description: “Drink a pot of double-brewed coffee. Gain 50% increased movement speed. Reduce casting- and recharge-times for all turrets and weapon-kit-skills (20%). Turrets you create have 20% lower health and explode upon destruction, burning nearby foes. Lose all your allies. If your health is below 50% when this effect ends, you are downed.”

only if it makes you /burp

Most fights are fast paced and moving.
Think of dungeon runs: you move from trash to next passage, to boss, move a lot on most bosses, move to more trash, next passage around the corner…
Turret cooldowns are not fitting any of this.
Rifle and Flame: yes, if picked up immediatly. not if left out for buffs and damage…
The rest: heck no, way too long before they are ready again.
You lose them for half the fights if not more, counting trash and not just the bosses.
And that’s not even counting the fact turrets simply get destroyed by almost every boss or pack of mobs…

WvW: that’s ALL about moving, all the time, be it roaming, zerging, skirmishing… whatever. Only at doors you move less. And whatever turrets add there, you lose by them being killed by guards, plain and simple.

Turrets are great for point fights, or something like WvW duels.
in point fights I assume they don’t last long if it’s more than one opponent either, too much cleave and aoe going on.

I really like the new turret traits.
But in their general use turrets are still too squishy on too long cooldowns.

I hope I’m wrong, but at least in WvW they seem to be destroyed way too fast for me.

If I spend 60 to 70 trait points on turrets to make them great group support, I expect the dam things to actually stay up for more than a few seconds in such a group fight!

I am really trying to like the new turret traits, I really am!
I’ve been testing builds for a few days now, almost always with turrets in them.

But do me a favor: go to HotM and fight the slightly over-buffed engineer npc.
Put down a turret, heck, put down a forrest of turrets with supply crate and all.
He does ONE jump shot and they are all gone, just like that.

Bottom line of all my tests: the new turrets are great, but turrets still die, they simply go poof…

They are great for duels, in empty spaces. But other than that they still get killed very easy.

That said: I love the reflects, and the buffing is great too.
Small example: rocket turret + the new boon trait with the natural buff duration from Alchemy traitline gives you over 50% retaliation uptime…

The new turret traits are really fun, but a bit too scattered.
Just try getting every turret trait in one build, it’s impossible.
Accelerant packed turrets should be build in the reflect trait for example, no be something on it’s own.

Coated bullets might be the only place to buff pistol main hand, without actually buffin the typical condi-engineer.

Pistol main hand does need a buff, it’s damage is rather low, even if it has decent utility.
But we can’t be buffing the pvp condi-engineer by giving them something they would incorporate in their build if it gets too good… Of course it would mean a sacrifice on other traits.

I like pistol shield a lot, but I can’t kill anything with just that, ever.
Coated bullets is more of a tagging mechanism than a real damage ability I’m afraid. It simply doesn’t do much by itself.
If you use a kit with that, you build around the kit, not around the pistol or even the shield.

Coated bullets you take if you already took everything else, it’s never a priority, it’s more that last trait when you have only minor stuff to fill in.

I sort of like the challenge, but is this intended or not?

In Heart of the Mists, every profession npc hits extremely hard since the patch.

The engineer for example has the most insane rifle shots ever. I want whatever rifle he’s using… seriously!
He does 9k jump shots on landing (5 or 6 k before on taking of), about 6 to 8 k blunderbusses, and his Hip Shot auto-attacks hit for 3k plus on my lvl 80 with 3k armor…
He’s not the only one, they all hit crazy hard, even in downed state.

It’s nice that they are not push overs, but I’m doubting this is intentional.

I don’t really want them to become much weaker, but a few things are over it (like their downed damage).

Juggernaut should effect Elixir Gun too, that would make the swapping so much less punishing.
And it’s not like Elixir Gun can’t use a serious boost as it is!

Obscure One.4357:

Dirame.8521:

Personally, I’d like stealth on Toss Elixir S.

Smoke fields and plentiful blasting/leaping for Stealth is already available to Engineers, but Stability just isn’t an option. We can use Elixir X, but as an Elite form skill it’s obviously limited in viability. There’s also that atrocity mortar elite that no one would use even if it were a standard utility skill.

That’s the primary basis I use to justify removing the stealth option on Toss S. That and those two effects, stealth and stability, are used for wildly different reasons; stealth doesn’t help in a situation where you need stability and stability doesn’t help in a situation where you need stealth. RNG between the two is plain ineffective, at least with U or X there’s a common situation for their use.

you know why I’m not a big fan of giving stability to elixir S?
Simply this: are we really going to give it to HGH builds again?

Maybe it’s about time some very important and usefull feature was given to a totally non-elixir build for a change.
It wouldn’t make the elixir build weaker after all, it would just make another build very well suited for GvG and WvW in general, alongside the already well rounded HGH builds.

Keep it on toss S as it is now.
But give stability to something entirely different as a new alternative!

Obscure One.4357:

It’s no secret engineer access to stability is extremely limited, and with that being the case a couple very simple changes could provide all we need:

¹ Toss Elixir S only procs the enlarge for stability.
² Armor Mod grandmaster trait also grants 3 seconds of stability when triggered.

The complex fix would be getting rid of the Mortar Elite as it is unusable in any efficient manner. There are a myriad of directions this could be taken in from a Clockwork Steamsuit armed to the teeth or a Machine Gun kit that pumps out waves of hot lead. No matter the change the skill needs to provide stability to viable builds by making itself viable.

not to say these ideas were bad, just added 2 of my own that fitted other builds better.

One turret should provide stability, just like ALL turrets should give some boon or another!

Shield trait should not give 60 toughness, but 5 seconds of stability when using a shield ability (some boon duration will go a long way on that one…)

Just 2 ideas, and purely for good form all ask for a reverting of the Juggernaut nerf back at beta…

VIVorcha.7853:

Kimbald.2697:

After the whole uproar about Dhuumfire for necro’s, I Always expected Incendiary Powder to move up the trait line.
So far it remained an easy to reach 10 point trait in a line that every condition grenadier puts points in anyhow.

Now imagine if Incendiary ammo was a 30 point grandmaster trait in Explosives?

That would be argued to be equal to Dhuumfire… yet totally break HGH grenade builds!
It would also severly limit any other HGH option that uses a kit, since after spending 30 points for incendiary, and 30 points for HGH itself… you’re left with either bombs or no kit to trait for at all.

That’s all the doomsaying and negative thinking it would take to shake everything up: simply bring incendiary Powder ‘in line’ with Dhuumfire…
A harsh and over-the-top ‘fix’ but yes: it’s one I been fearing for a while now.

If that happens, then Adrenal Implant better be moving down to at least Major Adept level on the Tools line.

not saying it will. Just what I have feared for a while.
Let’s hope they do realise there is a difference between the trait working on a full condition necro, and a full condition engi.

Just like a ranger isn’t an engi.
Odd one about that trait is that our own 10 point trait (vigor on swiftness) is better in any regard anyhow… very weird trait design there, on several levels. Not just as ranger vs engi, but even as engi vs engi design.

As for ‘they better do this or that…’: since when did they ever bother about making up at all?

Leaving aside all historical, logical, practical and whatever other real life reasons, simply focusing on gameplay factors:

I would give rifle and pistol the same range (1000 – 1200 seems about right)
I also would let both or neither pierce untraited! Piercing shots should include rifle, or the pistol should pierce by default.

The one weapon I would give 1500 range traited is… tadaaa: the Elixir Gun!
Give us a very good reason to use it on boss fights etc, as well as a directly aimed, single target max range option.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I actually like them for the Flamethrower and the Elixir gun where they make more sense (to carry the canisters), but I would love a hide toggle for them.

The main reason why is not that for me though, but anyone who has a female engineer must have noticed how it limits hairstyles a lot if you don’t want clippage, at least as Norn

that’s why a toggle would be the simplest solution!

In my FT-EG build I would actually leave them ON most of the time. But every now and than I would just go for the look of the weapon itself (FT or EG) without it’s backpiece.
In my grenade, healing bomb builds, I would toggle them OF.

It’s about options for all, and a little diversity.
Cosmetics in this game are one of the prime motivators. Well, they were until ascended hopped by… but even now many people still work on their look as much as their stats.

look at my bionical arm, that’s why…
So is half my brain, so no: it doesn’t have to make sense.

JudgeD.5673:

Well OP might try p/s bunker. I’ve had good success with it in zerg fights. I run pvt gear with earth runes, some knights trinkets, etc. I use elixirs, Rocket Boots, FT (though I’ve thought about trying E-gun), Tool Kit, and Supply Crate. Since, I started using this, I’ve found I tend to survive in zerg fights for quite a while, usually being one of the last to fall ( or get away) in a wipe (the exception being, getting caught by an enemy hammer train without stability). Retal is not an issue for me.
And while pistol is usually thought of as cond only, the #3 skill is handy for throwing blinds around in open field fights. A good bit of blocking/stuns + Elixir B (mostly used for the retal) also helps. Granted, you won’t rake in the lootbags doing this, but you won’t go down easy either. It’s possible to troll towers as well though you would likely need either Elixir X or full Lyssa runes for stability, since we are vulnerable to CCs. (Trolling towers can also be done with stealth, though I’ve yet to see a thread on that.)

I’m not arguing with anything you say, it indeed seems to work as you describe.
But I ask this question when playing a simular playstyle:

what the heck am I contributing to MY group here?
What damage am I doing, what support am I offering?
What am I bringing, other than simply staying alive?
What am I bringing that another build of another profession couldn’t do as well… on top of doing better damage and better support?

when it comes to zergs, we always hit the same 2 weaknesses of this profession:

1. the way retaliation punishes fast attack speed, or multiple hits, way more than slow bigger hits. Even if the slower hits do way more damage… retaliation still punishes the small fast hits.
Two of our better zerg options suffer from this: grenades as ranged, and Juggernaut Flamethrower wich seems ’designed for this as a trait-kit combo.

2. the way stability is spread out among professions.
Some have tons, but than engineers have next to none.
I can live with some builds having more than others… but an entire profession having none except some debatable elites?
Stability by itself is also a bit too strong to my liking.
Why can’t it act like aegis and blind: be removed when the first cc fails?

Every build that looks good on paper for zerging, hits one or both of these obstacles.
Grenadier, Juggernaut flamethrower as mentioned.. but also healing bombs, tanky tool kit builds, etc…

Engineers suffer from these, but I don’t consider it ‘engineer’ issues as such.
I believe retalition and stability both need to be reworked somewhat.

After the whole uproar about Dhuumfire for necro’s, I Always expected Incendiary Powder to move up the trait line.
So far it remained an easy to reach 10 point trait in a line that every condition grenadier puts points in anyhow.

Now imagine if Incendiary ammo was a 30 point grandmaster trait in Explosives?

That would be argued to be equal to Dhuumfire… yet totally break HGH grenade builds!
It would also severly limit any other HGH option that uses a kit, since after spending 30 points for incendiary, and 30 points for HGH itself… you’re left with either bombs or no kit to trait for at all.

That’s all the doomsaying and negative thinking it would take to shake everything up: simply bring incendiary Powder ‘in line’ with Dhuumfire…
A harsh and over-the-top ‘fix’ but yes: it’s one I been fearing for a while now.

Lots of discussion going on, and not going to reply to the latest individual posts.
I did read most of the last 2 pages, so the recent posts, and came up with these 2 small suggestions:

1. Instead of the whole cripple idea, make it chill!
If a strong melee hits you, he will be slowed and doing less chained burst on you.
Fire and ice…

2. Let Juggernaut effect Elixir Gun as well.
I realise far from all FT users equip the EG as well. But a lot do, and the trait synergy is very clear.
This would achieve 2 things: EG itself would be given a much needed buff, and the synergy with FT would be perfect!
Mind you: it would not increase FT damage at all, which of course is the bulk of this discussion.
In melee range it would allow you to switching to a weakening, poisoning, crippling weapon without losing the toughness and might stacks.

Neither of my suggestions even touch upon damage for FT at all.
But they do make it even more versatile. And in that sense, it would become a stronger weapon.

Important last note:
personally I feel all kits slack behind the damage of bombs and grenades, which also happen to be our simplest melee and ranged weapons to use (and most boring at that…)
There is an issue there, which goes beyond FT alone.

Shanks R Us.2489:

I think it would be fair to have the kit scale back up if you’re wielding a legendary. I don’t have one, and I will probably never have one, but those that do put a lot of time into theirs and they probably deserve that extra 5%.

I fully agree.
I won’t have a legendary or ascended weapon myself anytime soon, but those that have one or two should get their well deserved 5% damage increase.

Just like all other professions who weild a ascended-legendary have gotten their damage increase last patch.

Manuhell.2759:

Guess the kits at ascended power were exploitable too, seeing how fast they’ve “fixed” them.
Again, anything beneficial to us gets promptly fixed, and the bugs are all still there…

the basic criterium seems to be:

if it bothers others, than it gets fixed.

Almost all engineer fixes that came fast, were things others could complain about (mostly in pvp since that’s where others could find it unfair the most).

The problems that only bother engineers… either take months, or aren’t fixed at all yet.
They do fix some, but only very very slooooowly.

Scope only got adressed after being discussed in the pvp forums, not during the months and months it was reported and bumped in the engi forums…
Glue bomb? Obvious a pvp issue (which it was).
Too much damage could be seen as a potential issue as well, of course.

just an option:

show kit backpack:
toggle on/ toggle of

That’s all, nothing more, nothing less.
Nothing fancy, nothing to upset people who like the backpacks, just a toggle for those who don’t.

If we are talking power builds, we best put 2 things aside first, to avoid making our 2 best builds completely overpowered:
1. HGH condition build is strong enough as it is
2. Rifle power damage in an SD build is more than enough too.

So, concerning power, I would like to see a buff to pistol main hand POWER damage.
Not to condition damage, so not faster speed as such because it will stack bleeds more in a HGH build.
Pistol main hand, auto-attack #1 I mean, needs a buff. But we can’t buff HGH p/p more… so I suggest power damage increase.

Secondly, I would like to see Flamethrower be on par with bombs. Bombs are full aoe and easier to land the damage in melee range than flamethrower wich needs very good Flameblast #2 timing to hit people up close.
Auto-attack #1 bombs win by a large margin.
More power damage to FT please, especially the auto-attack again.

Elixir Gun is more condition, but often we double it with the Flamethrower, or the Bomb Kit in a healing build.
EG #4 hits hard, pure power. So maybe give EG more power damage as well. or in this case: do increase the attack speed of EG #1. Either more condition stacking, or more power damage… hybrid weapon galore!

Tool Kit: simply increase attack speed of #1 to bring it on par with bombs again.
Bomb Kit outdamages Tool Kit by far again.
Both offer utility in different ways. The fields of Bomb Kit are not to be neglected, they offer great group possibilities.
Tool Kit offers better utility for the engineer as such.

A new weapon?
Either 2H melee (but bombs and toolkit do that just fine)
But mostly: a 1H better main hand than the pistol to couple with the shield!

Those are my suggestions and my input to this thread.
I’m deliberately not reacting to the suggestions in the OP.
Partly becuse I don’t think engineers lack power options.
My opnion is more that our damage options are poorly balanced: bombs, grenades, HGH p/p, Rifle SD… compared to those, the other options are slacking behind damage wise (not utility wise, totally different discussion!)

Sevoha.6724:

Kimbald.2697:

Last note, bit disapointing:
runes of Lyssa do not recognise our Supply crate as an elite… probably because it’s ‘outside’ of the engineer character itself.
Welcome to the engineer bug list

I tested it a few patches ago, and unless they broke it again, Supply Crate works with Runes of Lyssa.

ah, thank you very much.
Glad it’s fixed. I simply didn’t bother testing it again for quite a long while, sort of took it for granted that it was broken…

Asura can look cool in very specific pieces. Humans tend to look decent in anything you throw on them.
Almost like armor in this game was designed for one race…

Sexy = not Asura…
Funny = not Human…

There is a ‘show your engineer’ thread in the sticky here, have you browsed through those pictures a bit?
In my humble opinion: Asura and those kittycats look rather engineer-like.
The rest looks like thieves with a malfunctioning wardrobe…

Tool kit works for sure in a SD build, and it’s even used in HGH versions who got tired of grenades…
It’s the one kit you need to consider for a ‘kitless’ build indeed

SD = higher burst, bit more squishy
HGH = full condition burning down, currently the strongest pvp overall pressure option

Thing is: HGH = pistols, in the most used versions.
Since you mentioned the rifle, no one would suggest an HGH build at all.

For an HGH build to work you obviously need elixirs, and no elixirs have short enough cooldowns to make a Static discharge version viable.
Not to mention the fact thrown elixirs are aoe and static discharge is annoying on an aoe skill. It only works reliable on direct targeted skills with short cooldowns.

a rifle static discharge build can work without kits.

You could combine the rifle with Healing Turret, Rifle turret, Battering ram, Net turret…
Throw mine could work well, rocket boots, slick shoes…

Take the Sitting Duck trait, and of course the Static Discharge trait.

Other than those improve your rifle and get some utility from Alchemy traits, or more Tools traits.
Or improve your Turrets from Inventions trait line. But be warned: not only turrets are very buggy, their traits aren’ that great either.
For Turrets I personally consider accelerant packed turrets (20 Explosives) and deployable turrets (Tools) the most usefull. Not the traits in Inventions…

Not that a Static discharge build needs turret traits to work at all.

Putting points in Tools gives you lower toolbelt skill cooldowns, which result in more static discharges.
Not to mention more crit damage
(edit: see how Seras above me puts 30 points in Tools for these reasons)

For a random idea of such a build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqyV3yy2F17IyIFkGnFSB+dfgeYX+1IC

There are plenty of other versions, I simply threw one together that appeared fun to me

Difference between my version and the above example: mine has more speed and the healing turret resets at 25%
Seras described the higher burst standard SD-burst build…
I avoided all kits, so the med kit included!
But when putting 15 points in Tools anyhow, med kit big heal resets at 25%.

Updated my look a bit, still simular as a few pages before, but minor detail changes (masked hat instead of goggle most striking difference):

Kimbald.2697:

Do /laugh and really rofl on an Asura, than look at the boring plants behind your neighboors windows…

as for screens:

Do /laugh and really rofl on an Asura, than look at the boring plants behind your neighboors windows…

I simply can’t understand why this is not fixed in any of the small patches. Especially since most things broke from a patch as it is…

Turrets have issues enough if they work correctly.
No way in hell added bugs are even remotely acceptable to these failing utilities as they are!

Raghnu.1049:

Kimbald.2697:

the kit usually defines the main weapon, and the build certainly does.
Can’t remember seeing a working HGH rifle build or a Static discharge build using pistols.

if the kits are the core of the damage, than some, like me, take the shield for utility. That leaves us with pistol main hand, willing or not…

There are pistol builds, just like rifle builds.
I don’t think one is more dominant than the other to be honest.

pistol-pistol = condition damage
shield -pistol = defensive
rifle = control first and often power-crit burst second

Speaking about PVE, there is no reason to be outside of a kit, really. So it’s still better to be p/p or p/s other than the occasional situation.

Wvw or spvp sure, but alot of these builds for PVE include rifle, it’s baffling.

yes, pve you can do entirely in grenades, bombs, flamethrower… as long as the kit does aoe I would say.
Or entirely Elixir gun on single boss fights even.

as for pve builds with rifle: it can be personal preference, or simply some added utility.
Like having sitting duck trait + rifle = a lot more vulnerability and cripple.

Rifle will give the option to burst faster as you wait for the important cooldowns of your kits.

I would take the shield myself, but that too, is personal preference.
I’m not impressed with pistol main hand alone, but the shield I really really like.

Macros.6120:

I’m not entirely sure what I’ve created… probably an abomination in the eyes of God… but here’s my attempt at a pure auto-attacking pistol build.

I didn’t want to use Static Discharge or HGH because that would take all the fun out of it.

It’s not very mobile, though, is it? Kind of got off topic…

Edit: Changed Utility Goggles to Elixir B.

I would have no clue
It is an odd one indeed.
Quite interested in any real testing results.

My first guess is: pistol main hand isn’t going to kill anyone 1v1.
Toolkit will probably do better damage… but than I would trait power wrench over Scope.
Pistol for ranged and groups, Tool Kit for melee 1v1… it could work.
Or it could not

the kit usually defines the main weapon, and the build certainly does.
Can’t remember seeing a working HGH rifle build or a Static discharge build using pistols.

if the kits are the core of the damage, than some, like me, take the shield for utility. That leaves us with pistol main hand, willing or not…

There are pistol builds, just like rifle builds.
I don’t think one is more dominant than the other to be honest.

pistol-pistol = condition damage
shield -pistol = defensive
rifle = control first and often power-crit burst second