Guild Wars 2

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kimbald.2697:

And on topic: yes, I consider it a very bad design if engineers can’t survive without putting 20 points in Alchemy.

I think there’s plenty to argue with that statement. Engineers can definitely survive without Cleansing Formula. I just don’t see why someone would want to go without it.

It’d be like using the Flamethrower without grabbing Deadly Mixture. Certain traits are no-brainers. If you use a lot of elixirs, you should grab Cleansing Formula.

not saying you’re wrong with these things. They do make sense.

But the question for me is: why would you need to take cleansing formula if you use ONLY elixir S as elixir?
Without this trait, the elixir S is mostly a 3 second wait to get downed…
No more cleansing, no more swiftness, no more healing.

I can live with not being allowed to prybar or bomb someone when invulnerable. But the healing skill should have stayed for me.
Runes of grenth, or a pushback turret explosion… they were ways to escape with elixir S.
Engineers could do with such ways to escape, we aren’t the best at that at all.
So that’s why I don’t think that changing this for ele’s was reason enough to change it for engineers.

Must have traits are always bad in this game i think. The dev’s advertise their whole build diversity as a strong and important feature of the game.
Not just for the engineer: must-have traits aren’t good for any profession. And I do agree engineers aren’t the only ones suffering from that.

That’s part of why I don’t like small changes such as this one.
They diminish the way we can make non-alchemy builds work a bit.
Elixir S was usefull even without any points in Alchemy, simply because you could use med-kit for the cleanse and swiftness to get away.
Now you almost are forced to hae cleansing formula 409 to get rid of whatever is holding you back when you pop elixir S.

This would be ok… IF our best builds didn’t already go 20 points in Alchemy at least.
So instead of opening variety of builds, it’s a small push towards the same strong builds again.
Kit refinement was the same issue.

Healing turret was a step in the right direction, not perfect but at least it goes away from elixirs and does not rely on any trait in Alchemy.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kimbald.2697:

Not a single one of my posts was the sort of QQ you accuse it to be.

I was speaking generally at the end of my post.

This entire thread is one elaborate QQ. That is my issue. This community just cannot take a single change to the class with any semblance of dignity. Constantly a half-glass empty perspective.

But really, you have nothing to say about the point of “must have” traits? Every class has them. I fail to see the issue with that.

you quoted me, that means it’s directed at me in normal language.
If you didn’t mean that: fine, watch what you write than. There is no way I shouldn’t have taken that one personal.

It’s not because you had a point to make, that you can just pick anyone to use for that.
Leaving it for what it is now, but in the future step back a moment before you start throwing out dirt. And see who you’re adressing first.

I’m fine with you saying there is too much complaining and all that.
It’s an opinion and I value it for that.

And on topic: yes, I consider it a very bad design if engineers can’t survive without putting 20 points in Alchemy.
It just is, it leaves less room for other viable builds.

Healing turret changes are nice, and a step in the right direction.
But what good is a turret if it dies in seconds AND forces you to remain in range anyhow?
Turrets have issues that no patch has yet adressed.

As for elixirs: they simply have all the trait support we can only dream of for turrets or gadgets. Kits are somewhere in the middle.

All the latest small changes (Kit refinement and this Elixir S mostly) further limit really different builds.
you seem ok with that, which is fine as an opinion, but I personally think it’s a bad design.

Oh, and in case you missed it: I do not think elixir S is utterly useless now, nor have I ever thought engineers were broken… they simply aren’t finished yet either. And the pace of improving them is too slow for my liking, that’s all.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kimbald.2697:

You argue balance a few posts up, and than you point at the very issue with engineer builds.

Cleansing Formula is a powerful trait. So was Kit Refinement.

So is Evasive Arcana and Altruistic Healing. All classes have “must-have” traits. Suggesting that this is an Engineer-only problem, or that this is even a problem in the first place confuses me. The Healing Turret buff was precisely to introduce the alternative: two conditions removed every 15 seconds. That’s certainly powerful, though like the Rifle/Net/Flame Turret buffs last month, I don’t think it goes far enough. But it is a start.

If you think that ANet fails at balancing the Engineer that’s your perspective. But this thread is about Elixir S and how apparently changing the way it works kills the build. Even though Warriors know and love Endure Pain, and Elementalists roll with Mist Form often.

Apparently because it doesn’t allow you to heal yourself anymore, it’s all of a sudden a busted skill and the class is broken. QQ more. Seriously.

don’t quote me and than end with a stupid line as if I said the class was broken or that elixir S was a busted skill.
Not a single one of my posts was the sort of QQ you accuse it to be.

Quote me where I said any of this.

I try to remain reasonable in all my posts and discussions. You’re being an arrogant kitten if you put words in my mouth like that.
Stick to the arguments, not your own crusade against anyone saying something is wrong please. Because that is what your last line makes it sound… it sure as hell wasn’t related to anything I posted.

I see turrets only working in fights who do not have:

- too many wrong targets that the turret can waste shots on
- much aoe that destroys all turrets put down in seconds
- mobs that attack turrets and kill them in seconds
- the need to move around much

That leaves:
- standing behind a door in WvW before the enemy gets inside
- small fights against profs with no pets, and no automatic aoe or cleave

Turrets are pretty good for point defending, but no turret build can match a HGH build I fear.
Turrets are also nice for duelling, but again: likely not as strong as HGH…

Phineas Poe.3018:

Who doesn’t take Cleansing Formula 409 in sPvP/WvW?

Serious question.

You argue balance a few posts up, and than you point at the very issue with engineer builds.
How can it even be remotely balanced if we are all supposed to take 20 points in Alchemy AND use elixirs?

Even if you use Elixir S, that still shouldn’t mean that cleansing formula 409 should be a given!

Before the patch elixir S provided utility for those who did not traited elixirs… now it doesn’t anymore. Med-kit is the least that should work.
Now we are pushed more towards the whole elixir-Alchemy builds than before.

That’s the underlying issue that annoys me with most recent changes: we are more and more pushed towards a single way of traiting: 20 points in Alchemy and at least some elixir seems the main way to go for engineers. Not even starting on HGH or might stacking as the only basis of doing good damage.

This is utter crap for balancing.
It leaves engineers with extremely limited build choices, patch after patch.

The healing turret change actually tries to remedy that a bit, but if it comes with small nerfs such as this, the desired effect will not be that we get more viable builds…
Not to mention their intention with healing turret was that we leave it out now, and even that didn’t work out. But that’s another discussion.

When engineers complain that rangers get a minor trait the same as our grandmaster trait, people answer that you can’t compare professions trait for trait.
But when ele’s needed a nerf… we get our elixir S nerfed too without looking at the bigger picture for engineer builds.

Tolmos.8395:

nakoda.4213:

condition removal on a 15-20 second cooldown?

“on demand” ish water field?

purely aesthetic?

My traited healing elixir also gives me condition removed on a 20 second cooldown. It also gives me a heal that is more than twice as large with the exact same cooldown (20 seconds for traited elixir, 20 seconds for turret. 15 if I insta-pickup). It also gives me a 10 second regen compared to my turret’s 3. It also gives me, on top of all of that, another buff.

So, yea… water field with turret vs 2x bigger heal, 3x longer regen, same condition removal and an extra buff. Hard choice there…

You are talking about a traited elixir versus the healing turret.

From the state of the Game I gathered that the main intention for the healing turret change was to open up other builds.
In other words: when you do NOT go for 409 trait, or elixir traits in general, than the healing turret provides almost simular effects without spending traits on it.

Not saying this makes the healing turret better, just saying you shouldn’t compare to traited elixir H, since the goal was to give something to those engineers who didn’t do that…

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Kimbald.2697:

Raijinn.9065:

What about accelerant packed turrets? I’m more interested in a aoe knockback every 20 seconds aka everytime I heal lol

this depends on the situation, but I fully agree with you myself.
I didn’t calculate it since it has nothing to do with pure healing. Except that knocked back enemies hit less hard in melee

Apparently Explosive Powder works as well for turret detonation, which makes me wonder if the other explosive traits work as well and how much utility you can pack into this turret.

Would be great if forcefull explosives was ‘explosions’ and not just bomb and mines

The problem with Explosive Powder is that it is a Master Trait, so only available at 20 points in Explosives.
This is where you need Accelerant-Packed turrets, or it’s not working anyhow…
So are you really going to go 30 points in Explosives to get this 10% on the explosion? Turrets eat up enough points as it is… I personally can’t spare 10 more for a spot where I could take the smoke bomb on stun, or of course: grenadier.

For theorycrafting this would lead to a 30/0/30/0/10 turret build.
Or for max damage: forget deployable turrets and get sitting duck and net turret for stacking vulnerability… 30/10/30/0/0

Raijinn.9065:

What about accelerant packed turrets? I’m more interested in a aoe knockback every 20 seconds aka everytime I heal lol

this depends on the situation, but I fully agree with you myself.
I didn’t calculate it since it has nothing to do with pure healing. Except that knocked back enemies hit less hard in melee

Simple comparison over the course of 1 minute fight:

A. Deploy, leave turret out and overcharge every 15 seconds.

You get:

- 1 personal heal of deploy [2580 at zero healing]
- 4 aoe heals from overcharge every 15 seconds [2580 × 4 = 10320]
- 4 aoe cleanses of 2 conditions from overcharge every 15 seconds
- 4 regen from overcharge
- onl 1 use of the toolbelt regen because your turret is out and toolbelt is blocked by ‘detonate turret’ tooltip
- 4 water fields of 5 seconds (if not bugged)

B Deploy-overcharge-detonate

You get:

- 3 personal heals from deploying every 20 seconds [2580 × 3 = 7740]
- 3 instead of 4 aoe heals from overcharging every 20 seconds only [2580 × 3 = 7740]
- 3 instead of 4 aoe cleanses of 2 conditions
- 3 aoe heals from detonating the turret in the water field [1320 × 3 = 3960]
- at least 2 uses of the toolbelt since it’s never blocked (3 uses if 20 points in Tools)
- 3 instead of 4 water fields of 5 seconds

Conclusion:

you and your group lose 1 aoe heal from overcharge, and 1 cleanisng of 2 conditions if you detonate each time.
But your group gains 3 aoe blast finisher heals from detonating, and at least 1 use of the toolbelt.
For your own healing you get 2 more big heals from deploying 2 more times, and of course you benefit from the group healing as well.
Everybody loses one cleansing of 2 conditions if detonated each time, that is the only clear loss.
And one less water field, which can be important depending on the group and ammount of blast finishers.
Most engineer blast finishers have cooldowns longer than 15 seconds (only mine not if traited) so it’s unlikely you would use all 4 water fields to thier full potential each 15 seconds. This entirely depends upon the fight and the group, and what blast finishers you all can spare to ‘waste’ on the heal.

Everybody also loses 1 regen from the overcharge, but gains at least 1 from the toolbelt. I find it a bit too complicated to calculate all those different regens, but it’s not hard to see that the toolbelt regen beats the overcharge regen. And that’s not counting the 2 regens you get from deploying 3 times instead of just once…
So even just looking at that difference, the method of detonating immediately wins.

edit: Raijinn below mentioned accelarant packed turrets which of course would give 3 knockbacks in that minute for defense.
To that I would add that leaving the turret out means it stays right there, and so must the group. Only if you detonate each time immediately, you can remain reletively mobile!
I find this mobility extremely important myself.

I have 2 remarks with this all:

1. the new mechanics actually promote to deploy – overcharge -detonate every 20 seconds, ignoring the fact that the overcharge has a lower cooldown of 15 seconds.
This goes against the intention of the dev’s, but it simply is the only reliable way to use the new healing turret.

2. Leaving the turret out and overcharging every 15 seconds sounds good on paper, but it will never be viable as long as the turret dies in seconds!
The risk of leaving it out with any enemy near is simply too big.

Second patch they buff turrets, and second patch they forget to fix the most important issues: turret targeting and turret weakness to aoe.

Is the water field from the overcharge disappearing when you detonate?
Or is it simply awfully short?

It sure isn’t 5 seconds…

I want a cooldown timer like for Kit Refinement!

Counting those seconds till I’m downed.

galandor.1059:

It’s fixed finally?

yep, on the patch they ruined half it’s usefullness…

NOW they fix it!

Just unbelievable, bloody unbelievable…

You know what’s silly?

That they had to wait till they nerfed Elixir S before they would finally fix it for Asura!

Am I supposed to be happy now? That I can use it when it lost it’s main appeal as a combo ability?

Not going to leave that healing turret out, ever.
Deploy every 20 seconds, overcharge and get water field, regen and 2 cleanses… only to detonate immediately in that water field. This ‘should’ add another heal as well.

20 seconds later, rince and repeat.

The 15 seconds on the overcharge aren’t worth the risk of the turret dying a bit later and getting the full 20 second cd anyhow…
I some situations I might leave it up, but those are only when no enemy is near. Like when flamethrowing the inside of a door in WvW before any enemy actually gets in.
Very situational, usually I’ll just deploy-overcharge-detonate

Leaving it out and overcharging it each 15 seconds will provide the better healing over time… but is it worth the risk of the turret dying to aoe, one or two direct hits, a mob that looks at it nasty?

Valar Morghulis.7049:

-Healing Turret skill:
Reduced the deployed heal by 50%.
Healing range is now 2520-3270.
No longer applies 2 stacks of regeneration every time the turret fires. Now applies 3 seconds of regeneration every 3 seconds.
No longer passively creates a water field.
Normalized the ranges of all aspects to 480 (previously 240, 360, or 480).

1/2 the heal and no water field…. they killed it forced to use elixer heal now… WHY!?! lol god they make it hard to keep playing this prof

the trick is that the overcharge now has a 15 second cooldown.
And that overcharge gives the same heal, a regen and a 5 sec waterfield.

So: deploy (20 sec cd) > overcharge (15 sec cd so can always be done when deployed) > detonate as soon as the regen and water field kick in.

I agree it should be in Tools, the fitting place for Gadget grandmaster trait.

But a simple switch could be done to achieve that.
Armor Mods for example: it’s bad in Tools and would be bad in Inventions
It’s even defensive in nature and would even fit being in the toughness trait line along with healing bombs… Not it matters, I haven’t seen a single build using it, ever. Maybe some do, but I haven’t come across someone yet.

When they talked about the Healing turret not getting aggro, about it living long enough, about players picking them up as a standard method (instead of detonating the right moment in the field as I figure most do)… I crinched a little.

This is not something that should be in a summary of the engineer discussion of SotG as such.
But it did hint at how their changes are mostly theorycrafted, which is a dangerous thing to rely upon.

In that sense i felt it was significant in the whole engineer discussion at SotG.

If I make trait suggestions, I try to stay as much within the exisiting system as possible, because I believe that is what the dev’s try to do as well.

It’s great fun and real creative to come up with totally new trait ideas, but frankly: most of the time I doubt the devs are interested in complete overhauls of traits…

Only my suggestion for the gadgets in the end is completely new as a trait. Not as an idea: there is a thread about this very suggestion on the front page.
The reason for this new trait is easy: there simply is no current trait for gadgets except that cooldown.. none at all, so any trait would be a totally new one.

The turret suggestions are all exisitng traits, just better placed and combined.

One remark about turrets having no cooldown reduction:
picking up a turret is exactly that 20% reductionI believe.
But this requires you to move to the turret (deployable turrets directly goes AGAINST this picking up), and it also limits you since you can’t detonate AND still have the cooldown reduction.
So while it is a bad solution in my eyes, I fear it still is THE solution as to why there is no cd trait for turrets.

I’m going to copy my suggestion for the turret traits.
At the very end you will see how this relates to the gadgets discussion in this thread.

Alongside this change, I would simply lower a lot of the gadget cooldowns and remove some sillyness like the self stun of the boots…

copy incoming:

If they do want to change the traits, and I am wrong, than here are my minor suggestions. Mostly aimed at changing the traits with as little effort as possible:

1. either make Accelerant-packed turrets or Deployable turrets a baseline ability for all turrets.
This frees up the need to go into 3 different trait lines just for turrets.

2. Combine Metal Plating and Autotool Installation into one trait. They both serve the same purpose and aren’t strong enough seperate to warrant a trait.

3. Replace Autotool Installation with Riffled turret Barrels as Master trait. This trait isn’t strong enough to be a Grandmaster trait. Flamethrower-Elixir gun get 15% damage from a Master trait too, and turrets already are just a portion of the full engineer damage, so their 15% is even less.

4. Either create a pure awesome sauce Grandmaster trait for turrets… or take the easy way and not force engineers to spend more than 40 points on their turrets itself. Leaving 30 points free for personal preference and buffing either engineers own damage, or the engineers survivability.

My suggestions do not change a lot in terms of what the dev’s want turrets to do.
But they do however, change the distribution of turret traits. Either 20 points in Explosives ot Tools (pick one devs) and 20 points in Inventions would give you all current turret traits.
The remaining 30 points would make sure that turret engineers actually have some choices to spend on Tool kit trait for example, some defences in Alchemy, some crit and conditions and sitting duck in Firearms, or even a support specc with healing bombs…

small final suggestion: to replace the grandmaster trait they could create a new grandmaster trait for gadgets!
This could give each gadget some permanent bonus effect, a bit like what Kit refinement was for kits. But permanent effects, more or less like signets.
Seeing how this would be a Grandmaster trait they could easily make this strong enough to be worth it.

Two flies with one hand… Turrets would get more realistic trait allocation, and gadgets would get a much needed trait of their own.

If they do want to change the traits, and I am wrong, than here are my minor suggestions. Mostly aimed at changing the traits with as little effort as possible:

1. either make Accelerant-packed turrets or Deployable turrets a baseline ability for all turrets.
This frees up the need to go into 3 different trait lines just for turrets.

2. Combine Metal Plating and Autotool Installation into one trait. They both serve the same purpose and aren’t strong enough seperate to warrant a trait.

3. Replace Autotool Installation with Riffled turret Barrels as Master trait. This trait isn’t strong enough to be a Grandmaster trait. Flamethrower-Elixir gun get 15% damage from a Master trait too, and turrets already are just a portion of the full engineer damage, so their 15% is even less.

4. Either create a pure awesome sauce Grandmaster trait for turrets… or take the easy way and not force engineers to spend more than 40 points on their turrets itself. Leaving 30 points free for personal preference and buffing either engineers own damage, or the engineers survivability.

My suggestions do not change a lot in terms of what the dev’s want turrets to do.
But they do however, change the distribution of turret traits. Either 20 points in Explosives ot Tools (pick one devs) and 20 points in Inventions would give you all current turret traits.
The remaining 30 points would make sure that turret engineers actually have some choices to spend on Tool kit trait for example, some defences in Alchemy, some crit and conditions and sitting duck in Firearms, or even a support specc with healing bombs…

small final suggestion: to replace the grandmaster trait they could create a new grandmaster trait for gadgets!
This could give each gadget some permanent bonus effect, a bit like what Kit refinement was for kits. But permanent effects, more or less like signets.
Seeing how this would be a Grandmaster trait they could easily make this strong enough to be worth it.

Two flies with one hand… Turrets would get more realistic trait allocation, and gadgets would get a much needed trait of their own.

This patch they put the emphasis yet again on turrets as a way to open up more engineer builds.
healing turret this go mainly, last go several other turrets.

This patch they also re-created some traits for other professions, something they never done before.

This patch they did NOT re-create turret traits, even though we been asking for it very loud and clear.

So my conclusion is: they don’t really intend to rework the turret traits anytime soon.

JubeiTM.5763:

The patch discussion Here

When drinking Elixir S, the engineer will not be able to use utility skills. They did this to discourage players from queuing combos.

I understood this differently:

The combo queuing wasn’t the reason for the nerf.
It was the fear of what would happen after the nerf.

my understanding was that players would now queue combo’s more when their target engineer uses Elixir S, since there is nothing the engineer can do while being invulnerable.
So the enemies would basically wait those 3 seconds while queueing up their skills to unleash as soon as the engineer can be hit again.

I think that Grouch was referring to this when he mentioned the combo queuing.

The dev’s themselves gave as reason for the nerf that it was just like the ele change, and that players would still be able to stomp or rezz when using elixir S.
They didn’t give much more explanation, it sounded like it was almost a sort of ‘fix’, something that wasn’t intended anyhow.

Important general remarks that could affect engineers in the future:

- they consider a three-way split to seperate not only pve and pvp, but occasionaly give WvW seperate skill mechanics or numbers as well.

- they created new traits which could mean in the future they do this more.

I personally think it’s a missed opportunity they didn’t create or change more engineer traits this go. Next month will be mainly fixes, no big changes. So it’s at least 2 month till they might rework the weaker engineer traits.
They haven’t said they would, at all. But it’s a first that they did it now for other professions, so it opens the door perhaps.
I’m not to optimistic about it, but in theory it’s a good thing they finally did this.

Faster attacks would also apply vulnerability faster…
So even if the damage was toned down when the speed is increased, to be at the same dps… the vulnerability would stack a bit faster and it would still be a damage increase.

Just double the attack speed of all 3 hits: 1/4 – 1/4 – 1/2 sec
and the tool kit just got a ton better as melee weapon.

As for the bleeding crippling box of nails: traited you cripple anyhow, and the bleed isn’t doing much.
So I think this melee kit could do a lot better with a blind, and/or an immobilize on a short cooldown, just like the rifle has.

I love my tool kit, but it just is sooo slow.
And box of nails was what I got from Kit refinement, which was PERFECT as far as utility from a trait goes!

The speed, on a melee kit? Seriously?
If they run, I either pull or I shoot them… I don’t chase them Benny Hill style with my Tool Kit out unless I can pull. Seriously: I don’t.
Not to mention the extreme short duration for a 20 second cooldown? Seriously again?
Not even going to the whole shared cooldown uglyness. Seriously.

I don’t agree this thread was moved to general discussion.
It had an extra value being in the WvW section, since it posed the question wheter or not WvW is worth the sub fee.
Seeing how little real changes WvW gets, and how lag, queues and culling etc influence the enjoyment.
There was a reason the question was asked in WvW.
Just READ the initial question! It clearly adresses WvW.

Being in the general discussion section will shift the question to pve again, which wasn’t the point of the question…

shockwave.1764:

Pannonica.5378:

AlietteFaye.7316:

VitalSuit.1980:

Zaviel.1245:

Only the rifle #1 and #2 skills are changed as well. I only take rifled barrels to make my pistol #2 slightly more accurate.

No actually, all of the rifle skills are increased as are the pistol skills (except blow torch)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifled_Barrels

It’s really stupid how it increases the range for Blunderbuss…

They probably switched off some brains during upgrade brainstorm.

What’s so bad about it increasing the range for blunderbuss, isn’t it a good thing?

maximum damage still needs the shortest range…

That’s why I suggested to let the trait increase the minimum range at wich the max damage is done.
like 0 to 200 range untraited, and 0 to 300 range traited.
That would actually help out a bit on the usefullness.
Both for blowtorch as for blunderbuss, since both have the same mechanic.

Can’t speak for Pannonica or Alliettefaye, but that’s why I think the increased ‘max’ range isn’t doing much…

GuilguiS.2738:

I’m still hoping that what they mean by making the numbers the same is actually finding a middle ground between those numbers. Because Confusion did too much damage on WvW and almost no damage on PvP. If the number is actually the PvP one with maybe 20 or 25% increase i’d be ok with it. Confusion builds need to come back to sPvP and be toned down in WvW.

this would be a lovely solution indeed:

25% more in pvp
25% less in WvW (pve)

Personally I think confusion should only proc on direct attacking skills, never on traited dodges, heals, blocks, etc…
It should punish you for attacking, without making you a sitting duck where the other can unleash 5-10 seconds of hurt on you while you sit it out.
But that’s a much bigger change than just adjusting the numbers a bit.

I know there have been rankings, and some balancing with maybe the promise of seperating in a 3-split where WvW gets it’s own balancing.

But all in all I’m still waiting for that big WvW patch.
I haven’t seen anything remotely exciting added to WvW at all.
It’s not bad as it is, but that ‘big’ patch? No clue what it was supposed to be…

It’s not up to us to ‘make the dev’s care about WvW’.
If they don’t care enough, than that’s extremely sad since it is their game.

Make the best game you can, collect money because people simply can’t stop playing and buying stuff to increase their enjoyment of the game..
And not: make the most profitable game you can, basing changes on the ammount of money they can make.
This game sees far too many lucrative pve changes, compared to the less lucrative pvp changes they could add.
It’s their choice, their game… but our money in the end.

Nope.

Not for the lack of changes to WvW, unlike all their attention for pve events.
And certainly not for a single gamemode in pvp.

Pve is debatable since it gets attention, so it’s a matter of taste mostly.
Pvp however simply doesn’t have enough features and new incentives.

Not to mention culling, lagg and queue times in WvW. Half the time I want to play WvW, I quite simply can’t…

I can live with the fact it only cripples when traited.
It also hits pretty hard in a power build. Nothing spectacular, but not bad either.

But it could really do with a speed increase.
It hits too slow, even pve mobs sometimes manage to avoid it… let alone players.

The least they could do is increase the minimum range at wich Blowtorch does it’s full damage.

So instead of max damage at 200 distance, it could do that on 300 or 400 already.
That would be a bigger improvement than increasing it’s maximum range for the lowest damage…

The Op’s list is pretty much what I would ask, but as general questions I would add these:

1. What is your primary source for engineer design changes?

From the comments of devs I get this feeling it’s mostly theorycrafted, at best based on feedback from other professions but not from engineer play. Small details hint that most changes do not come from extensive personal experience on the engineer.
Picking up healing turrets as general practice, turrets not getting aggro in pve, turrets living long enough in big fights… these small examples all suggest that it’s not a turret user speaking, but a theorycrafter.
Almost all official comments on the engineer appear a bit out of touch with the actual player practice.
So what is your source?

2. What is your current design philosophy for the engineer?

It seems to shift somewhat each patch, as if you haven’t made up your mind yet.
Latest SotG suggests we carry the tool kit, so no more ‘mid-range’?
Last patch ruined Kit refinement, so no longer focusing on ‘versatile’ as that trait is now anything but versatile.

google.3709:

WHAT WE SHOULD BE HAPPY ABOUT!!!!!!!!!

• Retal damage is being toned down on WvW! Grande and FT users should be happy!

• For the first time Anet has merged and created new traits!!!!!!!! this opens up great possibilities if anet decides to work on some of our useless traits (we got alot of those)

The only real nerf so far is confusion nerf for WvW players. other than that, they said granades will not be nerfed this patch.

I can agree on not being overly pessimistic and negative.
But please: it’s just as silly to be overly confident and positive.
These aren’t such wonderfull things to be jumping for joy for…

First of: incendiary power got a LOT less uptime now, which tends to hurt a lot of Flamethrower builds.
That burn went from 66% almost to 40% baseline.
Givers weapons, runes, traits…made that burning often 100%
As for the excuse of opening new builds: it did NOT open up new builds since it still works on crit!
Let it work on base hit, and than we’re talking. THAT would be a buff to other build options!

On the second point of the traits:
this is as much bad news as it is hopefull…
Yes, they did merge traits and create new traits. But NO: they didn’t think engineers were worthy of such changes.
This is a clear sign, they didn’t even MENTION engineer traits to ever be changed for the better.
We got incendiary power nerfed, that’s our trait change.

When I heard they were redesigining traits I was happy and hopefull.
Till I saw they weren’t bothering for engineers…
If they don’t think we need those new traits now, why would they do it later?

And when is ‘later’ anyhow? Next patch will be bugfixes and asuch… so at least no new traits for 2 months.
If they wanted to do it for engineers, they would have. Now.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Doesn’t a dedicated HGH condition build set around 1800 or so condition damage?

Fact is that, after being hit by the prybar, enemies will be taking 1000 damage for every action for 10 seconds. It’s not 2000 damage, but 1000 damage is still pretty good.

The issue is with the OTHER builds again.
Any non-HGH condi burst build using either tool kit or bombs, just saw one of their best damage abilities reduced quite a lot.
HGH did too much perhaps… but the other engi builds did NOT.

I expacted a confusion nerf and can understand it.
But they should give prybar something else for example (boonhate was a good opportunity… but they missed that boat)

I can understand the warrior buffs, after last patch and all.

But did they really have to pick thieves to be the ultimate anti-class for boons?
Not to mention they benefit from your boons as well.
I’ll throw out another wild idea: nerf confusion, and give Prybar boonhate! Engineers aren’t all HGH, and we could have used something special.

Healing turret: if it dies in aoe, it doesn’t matter whatever it COULD HAVE done if it hadn’t died…
The changes might be great, but if the turret itself doesn’t live long enough, they won’t do much.
Since when do people have to focus a healing turret in short range dev’s? Really? It dies from aoe, maybe try it before you comment on it.

Just a question: so engineers picked up their healing turret? Not detonate it?
Sure about that? I’m not, you see. I think we usually detonated the healing turret after putting it down.
It’s a small difference, a little detail. Something that distinguishes hearsay from personal experience…

For starters: if they’re nerfing us to match ele’s… they better start buffing some stuff to match ele’s as well.

As for elixir S: not being able to swap to kits etc can be acceptable.
It will make our best stunbreaker a lot weaker, but not useless since we can still run and stomp with it.

But I sure hope they fixed the bloody Asura bug with it!

All in all it’s a straight up nerf, no other way to put it.
That buff to healing turret better be dam good. And that turret better not die at the slightest aoe…

Czar Peter.7961:

ikiturso.4026:

expect if elixir engi face thief or warrior that engi becomes useless haha

Nope, I crush thieves and warriors in PvP with my flamethrower elixir engineer. Turrets really are useless though. I wouldn’t use turrets in WvW if they were invulnerable.

How can you know?
You haven’t played against thieves and warriors with the boonhate yet, so what are you on about?
You crush them with an elixir build in an imaginary ptr you are playing in your head?
In that made up ptr their boonhate doesn’t hurt your elixir boons?

He was referring to the announced changed, just like the rest of the thread was discussing.
What you do NOW to thieves and warriors isn’t the question. It’s what they will be able to do if you have boons after the next patch (thieves untraited, warriors traited).

google.3709:

I’ll try to get it on video because i sware i get hit by confusion 5-10 per dodge rolls, after i get hit i will drop in a matter of seconds and chat log will say 12k confusion dmg from 16hits and such. its just weird xP

do you have 5 points in explosives?

CriSPeH.8512:

Bump.

I am also going to write stuff because although Anet will not take the time to give a simple reply about an extremely annoying bug, they will take the time to give me infractions for just bumping the thread without also writing alot of very important words.

I know how important it is to keep the forums clean, I have read through alot of posts and EVERY SINGLE ONE has very informative information that is always stictly about the original topic. So I can see why my post that simply said bump 5x was easy to spot among all the other civilized converstations and topics being discussed across the Forum Boards.

I thank the mods so much for my warning about not adhering to the very strict and obediantly followed forum policy. I hope me bumping a Thread tht has nothing but agreement and support from the forum community did not disrupt or offend anyone too much. I hope I did not distract to much of the valuable moderator time because I was so lazy and only wrote

Bump
Bump
Bump
Bump

I know laziness is not even a word that Anet employees are aware of, I can picture now that dev team of 2, working furiously all hours of the night. Migraines running rampant, the stench of cold coffee and stale bagels in the air, the gloomy blanket of lost hope and frustration slowy decending on them. WHY? Why does the camera glitch out?? It is the question that has almost cost them their sanity and has certainly cost them a good amount of dignity. Sitting on those cold brown sofas underneath those humming flickering bulbs, underwear stained with urine because they just refuse to give up or even budge, they just refuse to be lazy, they refuse to do anything untill they fix this bug that should be so simple.
But if only everyone else could just see, certain big tasks, certain grand plans, certain magnificant feats, well they are anything but simple.

And here I was just writing bump.
I am such an kitten.

I never bump myself.
Not as a principle, it just never occurs to me.

it does not trigger on dodges… except if your dodge triggers something else.

Like for engineers: spending 5 points in explosives makes you drop a bomb each dodge.
That bomb triggers confusion, without such a trait your dodge does not trigger confusion by itself.

Movement: never triggers. That has to be retal as said above, or some automatic thing kicking in (you getting to 75% and drinking an elixir B, or at 25%… etc)

Channeling: I think most just proc on starting the channeling itself.

It also triggers on automatic actions.
for engineers: if you have a free elixir S at 25%… that’s a confusion proc right there.

Kit swap is counted as a ‘skill use’ too I believe. And if your med kit procsyour runes, or kit refinement it defenitely triggers confusion. But I believe it does anyway since you press the ‘skill’ button to swap.

Reason nr 1: Everything can be done in a blob, there simply is NOTHING that is done better if with fewer…
Nothing has some handicap where the npc’s suddenly hit super hard, or the siege suddenly blasts 10 times harder when there are more targets.

Pve champions and events have such mechanics, WvW does not.

As long as everything can be done better and faster with a blob, people will blob up.
You know why?
Because of reason nr 2…

Reason nr 2: Loot bags!
In a blob there are no diminishing returns on loot bags.
While in small fights you simply get less loot, always. Yup: ALWAYS.
Blobs = loot bags… simple as that.

So some might be in there for the lootbags, others might be in there to get things done.
but either way, the best way to achieve either goal, is to join a blob or be in an organised big guild group.

These 2 reasons do NOT apply to all of course.
But they do apply to most in WvW I’m afraid. Most are either there with their guild, or they join the commander badge for the 2 reasons above.
Everything small scale is flavor for the ones doing it for fun.
Fun is important, but getting loot and capping stuff is often fun too… hence back to reason 1 and 2…

There are smaller guild raids, and that is perfect. They do their thing and usually do it seperate from a blob, unless they really need to strenghten the numbers.

But as far as randoms go, this game needs to reward smaller teams over bigger teams.
And npc’s, siege weapons and loot bags are the way to do that. Those are the best mechanics to make sure not everything is done better with a blob!

Iruwen.3164:

No, it’s exploiting game mechanics. But we for example often have trainee commanders running who don’t have a book yet, that would hurt the gameplay a lot. It’s just replacing one evil with another.

Kimbald.2697:

only let a ram be deployed at an enemy door itself.

That’s what I’d do.

I fully understand you on the ‘trainee’ commanders.
often people take up responsability in WvW in one form or another, organised or not.
Those are the ones who would feel such a limit of course.
Not the ones who never put down siege, and not the commanders… but those in the middle.

Iruwen.3164:

Energetik.6471:

Simply limiting the amount a single player can lay down at one time on one map should be 1-3.

Commanders have unlimited.

Worst idea ever…

it’s not so bad as an idea, it would be very very restricting on players who put down a lot of siege now.
But it might force others to use more siege as well for a change.

Or do you consider this tactic of wasting siege so the team gets siege-capped a valid tactic too?

If rams are counted on their own, the very simple solution would be:

only let a ram be deployed at an enemy door itself.
Give an error message outside that radius, and if on your own door.

That way even if people put them down to annoy the team, they at least would be standing at enemy doors…

Ony works if rams are counted with no other siege than rams of course.

Player limit could work, but very often it’s the same players using several, and the ‘masses’ not putting much down.
Of course, this would also balance that out a bit

What i find works best, is simply talk to the guild the spy is a part of.
If that guild is trying to be a respected WvW guild, than they won’t like the negative attention.

If it’ a loner, or a guild that doesn’t care… than there is little to nothing you can do.
And to be honest: Anet can’t have well defined controlable player actions that define if someone is a spy or not.
It would involve going through ALl communication of that player and reading between the lines.
A game like this can not do this. If it can’t be easily detectable and provable, than it can’ t be dealt with, i’m afraid.

We have been siege capped at Piken quite often the latest days.
It also has been busy, but it’s not like it has never been busy before.

It even gotten to the point where the other servers ‘mention’ we put up golems for the simplest doors… which are the only things you can still use when siege capped.

Some foul play could be at work.
Or a bug.
Or of course the simple fact it has been busy and crowded… but we had that worse and it occured less than.