Guild Wars 2

Tyler Bearce.3427:

I’ll try to respond to some of the comments since my last post…

Yes, I do play this build in tournaments. I’ve used it for my last 30ish matches. I generally solo queue and I’m currently rank 289 NA. I’m playing this build because I prefer to use my own special blends, rather than flavor of the month builds. Would I be higher ranked if I was playing HGH? It’s entirely possible, but maybe not. At any rate I’m still winning more than I lose and having fun in the process. Part of the reason I play unpopular builds is to see how far off they are, and look for areas that we can improve to get them up to a similar level as the stronger builds.

Kit Refinement works in my build for a couple of reasons. First, I’m often bunkering a point. So my refinement is cooling down while I’m waiting for an opponent to show up, unless I’m preemptively dropping bandages and antidotes. It depends on who I expect to show up. The other reason is because my fights tend to last a long time, so even if it isn’t off cooldown at the very beginning of the fight, I’ll often still get multiple uses out of it before I fight is concluded.

Yes, sometimes rocket turret targeting does not end in my favor. However, the overcharge aoe is pretty big, and my build still works even if my rocket turret is missing my primary target. However, when the rockets are hitting, my build suddenly becomes lethal, rather than just tanky. And it provides some extra AoE CC through the overcharge knockdown and the detonate.

You deserve respect just for coming out here and posting about engineer builds you use.

I had a few questions about how much this was a real build, or rather a theorycrafted build you dabbled a bit with.
Seems you use it for real.

And as a developper, I understand you use builds and traits that are under discussion, or recently changed… it is still work after all, even if you’re just playing and having fun at that point.
I would actually think it a bit too easy when a dev would play HGH condi burst now, instead of finding the new possibilities.

On the Kit Refinement: I understand the waiting, but isn’t it a bit a guess as to what kit you’ll need to use first?
Or do you simply use the kit with the desired KR effect first?
When I use multiple kits, I swap out way way more often than once every 20 seconds. Having to wait that long before knowing what effect I will get, simply means the trait is no longer worth anything in a multi-kit build for me.
Not to mention those 10 points are always better spent on something else. Speedy kits alone is a hundred times more reliable than KR with the cooldown… Even for kiting around a point.
For me it doesn’t work with multiple kits, I simply swap too fast for that.

Rocket turret is indeed rather superb if overcharged when you are going full out.
I don’t doubt your build has good offensive.
An overcharged rocket turret combined with a net turret is a world of hurt and cc indeed!

I’m often critical, but thanks for doing this.
Doesn’t make every issue magically disappear, but at least we know you’re trying stuff out yourself.

Vuh.1328:

i’ve given up on my engineer due to this bug(one of the reasons atleast).

nooooooooooooo

You hang in there, grab this turret with your last strenght!
You can do it!

Lupanic.6502:

Tacgnol.8079:

We are good at math.

love this answer

way better than mine… by a long shot

aydenunited.5729:

Ostricheggs.3742:

aydenunited.5729:

It’s not OP on a 1v1 basis, per se.

It’s OP when you consider that the entire endgame of tPvP is point control, and HGH engineers brutalize AoE in a team fight… that ultimately means no rez, no point control, and unless you focus the Engie first (which no one is accustomed to doing yet) they are going to literally rain a bad day upon you.

Welcome to the problem with conquest as the only game type. You have to unbalance the professions to balance the game mode. Such a waste of a great game engine IMO.

I disagree so much that it’s ridiculous. Our AoE is huge, but it’s far far less than a power nade engi.

The reason why it is OP is that it has incredible damage in both 1v1s and team fights. It is an unstoppable killing machine when played to its potential, something that no one has ever achieved (even me, and I like to thing I “made” the build).

It’s a kittening ridiculous spec and probably the best in the game atm. It kittens on everything with zero remorse. Point control and AoE is hardly our boons. I can’t hold a point for the life of me. AoE kings go to power nade engis, warriors and thieves with cluster bomb.

I’ve read enough in this post to see your credibility should be seriously questioned.

His gaming history and reputation speak against your opinion I’m afraid.
Not to mention he’s actually listed pretty high.
He’s pretty darn good at what he does… he really is.

I can’t make that specc work for me to be so devastating, but I will take Ostricheggs word for it on this one.

If anyone’s credibility should be questioned from this post… it isn’t his.

by the way: not saying you are bad of course Ayden, I couldn’t know. But I am saying Ostrecheggs is much better than what you give him credit for.
Not a fanboy or anything, but you can simply check him out yourself and see. Most engineers consider him as one of the better pvp engineers.
That doesn’t make all his posts correct, but the way you sneer at him is a bit low. He was discussing pvp mechanics after all, and builds. And those I reckon he knows.

Apolo.5942:

I like this one, is a little bit softer than a tanking build, but damage is off the scale.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pyanrSgF1LJRoC4H0j6D47KSxlb8nCsF;ToAg1CqosyYlwKrVOrkWNyYeB

With out any boons you are sitting at:
20k hp
2300 Armor
2200 Attack
1000 Condition damage.
70% Crit

On Crit you have chance of proccing:
33% Burning through Incendiary powder
30% Bleading through Sharp Shooter
30% Chilling through Signet
50% Vulnerability through Precise Sights
30% Might Through Signet
50% Swiftness through Infused Presicion

best check the wiki for how proccing sigils work.
If both sigils have a cooldown, no matter what type they are, the one cooldown can not proc till the cooldown of the other is done.

So in your case: when the might procs, the next 10 seconds the chill can not proc.
After 10 seconds the chill or the might can proc, but whichever it is, sets the shared cooldown in motion again. Either 2 seconds if lucky or the 10 seconds.
Bad news is: main weapon often takes priority.
So maybe swap weapons

In pvp I see it sort of simple:

once you’re downed, you’re nothing but the dying corpse of a lving being. You’re no longer an engineer, ranger, warrior or whatever.

So in pvp at least I would go beyond ‘each prof has to be different’ mantra and instead make them all the same…

Downed state can have a place in pvp, but the differences between it do not. For me at least.

Fade.5904:

I’m the guildleader of Acme.Co [acme] a pikken square/ruins of sumaria EU engineer guild but atm we’re not open for recruitment RuBarBz.
Just thought id let you know other engineer guilds exist with the tag [acme] (we originally started on WoW as goblin engineers)

Regards

dam, not only am I a Piken Square engineer, I even was a WoW engineer (albeit it not a silly rodent one but an actual missplaced night elf raised by some crazy gadget dwarf…)

What kind of odd reasoning. Only post what is good?
What good does that do? How is that even remotely helpfull to the game or to the devs?

Games where the forums are dominated by the ‘good’ crowd, tend to give a false image to their developpers. It actually hurts their game, since it’s the major form of feedback that they have.

Of course having ONLY bad things or complaints is a false image too. But only the good…? As a common effort to keep out the bad?
Seriously: that is a terrible terrible way of handling feedback!

People should post what concerns them.
Not all ‘bad’ posts are bad. There are issues that need to be adressed. And there are discussions that are healthy to have.
It’s great if people disagree with me, but simply filtering beforehand is something I consider deadly for any intelligent discussion.

Many of the posts complaining about something specific, or mentioning what isn’t working right, are more helpfull than this topic for example…

This is the sort of build I’ve been testing with as well.
it has some of the good, the bad and the ugly.

First of the ugly: I hate creating an effective turret build just because the traits are so scattered.
No matter what you do, you always lose out on something important…

If you use the toolkit, than it’s less important that you can deploy the turrets from far. You can have them right at you and repair them as you fight with the tool kit.
but than again: using the toolkit so much and not having the Power Wrench trait is a bit of a waste too.
When they manage to aoe or kill your turrets, at least they knockback with a good damage portion too.
Accelerant-packed turrets seems the most usefull trait in the build to me.

Sitting Duck is great in this set up!
The vulnerability stacks up pretty high, and seeing how Tool Kit hits hard with it (and applies it too) you get pretty big hits.
Not to mention that the rocket turret has a large damage portion as white ‘power’ damage. That too hits harder and harder while keeping burns up.

You spend quite a few points on your own defenses, which seems needed since turrets can hit hard and all, but it’s dangerous to rely on their targeting to keep you alive!
This too is an issue: turrets eat trait points as it is, but than you still end up defenseless.

Now for the good:
overcharging both turrets is a hell of a lot cc. Your opponent will hate you for it!
They get stunned, knocked down, stunned again… while being immobilized, pulled, crippled and what not.
And the damage is big, like really big.

I like using this build with the shield.
The ranged daze is fun, as well as the pushback in case you get in trouble meleeing.
If I do, than I go for the Reinforced Shield trait.
The blowtorch is awesome as usual of course, but rocket turret itself can keep the burns up (if it’s alive…).
In this build the glue shot is another 5 stacks of vulnerability, so that one becomes more offensive in use.
Both p/p as p/s can have it’s uses in this fighting style I think.

The bad?
Rocket turret still has 50 second cooldown.
Turrets die like nothing if taking damage.
5 min timer resets the full cooldown.
Turrets basically are stupid.

I think this one is a LOT of fun.
but in zerg fights, turrets just go woof for me… they die and if lucky the knockback did something.
And if you’re seiging something in WvW, deployable turrets is almost a must. To put them on the walls and such.
But for any fight smaller than those: this build is hilarious, it really is!

Heojaua.6048:

Deployable turrets has been bugged for as long as i can remember.

the main issue finally got fixed, but now the new version uses one old cooldown (flame turret) and one or two old tooltips even though the actual spells are the new ones.

But yes: you can ‘deploy’ them from a distance now.

galandor.1059:

was using it a second ago, idk, maybe it is mega bugged but was testing it against the dummy’s in the sPVP zone and I was putting them on the wall and they were shooting but hitting nothing, was kinda dumb.

probably shooting IN the wall, and the effect gets wasted right there.
It happens often when they are at the edge of a wall, but not totally on top of it…

Nate.8146:

Nice vid Mask, although I can’t help but notice your opponents are not that good :P Reviving a dead guy in the middle of a battle? whoa.. I do like your strategy with the elixir S though. I will have to start trying that out.

Goloith, T1 matches are quite difficult when you’re up against a zerg. The real problem is skill lag though, which is why I’ve given up on HGH. To many times I couldn’t trigger my elixirs and I was kitten the entire fight. It’s why I now use turrets since they do fire and pierce, adding a decent amount of extra dmg (if placed properly before combat!). I’ll switch to back to elixirs and bombs if it’s not that bad. Unlike Mask, I chose to go with condition duration instead of boon duration. 2x mad kings, 2x lyssa, 2x giver pistols, 30% condi duration in power trait, and a veggi pizza for an extra 36% for a total of 106%. Static shot, prybar, and confusion bomb add a lethal dose of confusion. There are tons of condi removers and notwithstanding their finite use, they too suffer from skill lag. I know when that happens because the bags just pile up at my feet. Nevertheless, when I play engie I feel like I’m more of a supportive role. Zerk warriors and bunker guardians can go in and level a group, but my engie helps keep pressure on them. Static shot is a such a fun AOE skill to troll from the edges, but if it’s getting rough, I’ll run into the thick of it and plant a confusion bomb. My going away present to the zerg

Do turrets work out for you in such big fights?
Whenever I try them in bigger battles, they die in a second or two, leaving me with the cooldown and a tool belt skill (if lucky)…
Not to mention the moving about such fights have. We often move longer ends following a commander, not hop around like you do in skirmishes.

Maybe I haven’t tried enough, but so far turrets haven’t worked for me in big fights.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Kimbald.2697:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Go turrets! Someone asked me to post my turret build, so this seemed like a good place for it:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.33.0.0.0.80.94.85.86.102.8.8.12.228.234.0.0.0.0.256.0.0.276.271.0.289.291.0.20.0.10.20.20

I used to think the devs weren’t good at PvP. Now my theory is that they’re just asked to use niche builds to demonstrate their viability. I tip my hat to you for not only using two turrets but also taking kit refinement in the same build. It’s…not easy to make those work.

It is a bit suspicious, isn’t it

The one time we get a dev posting an engineer build, it has Turrets AND Kit refinement, after the patch and all…

But that’s also us being too tangled up in conspiracy theories. In all fairness: that was my thought as well when I saw the build.
Let’s hope he just likes to play that.

I wouldn’t say it’s a conspiracy theory. I think it’s great to sit down and say “is it possible to make a working build that includes two turrets and kit refinement?” and then take it from there. Even if the answer is only “almost,” it’s worth it and creates fun new builds.

I totally agree. it’s fun to create builds from basic pieces you want in it.
Often for me, those pieces are less popular or debatable choices.

My post was somewhere between serious and being funny.
A bit like the build he was testing I would guess

PhelanDisturbed.1650:

I know we aren’t useless. The times I have gotten groups, the runs have gone smoothly and quickly. I just can’t seem to find many who will allow me to prove it except in pvp… I always get asked if I have a Guardian or ele… no? Boot.

that’s more about how good guardians or ele’s stack in a group set up.
The serious raiding WvW guilds I watched sometimes even have 1/3 to 1/2 guardians stacked…

Most pve runs could do with 2 guardians, hardly any group would consider 2 engineers a benefit, often not even one…

Guardians just offer too much to a group, and so do ele’s.
It’s not us, it’s them…

Bad profession design i fear, and it boils over to player mentality to a large degree.
You don’t need all those guardians to be succesfull, just saying I see it often.
I never ever seen something like engineer stacking.
At best they have a grenadier in a WvW raid. Standing in the shadow of the ranger in the back…

invite me for the engineer questions.
I promise to do nothing more than look around to see if someone else is actually playing an engineer.
And than say we have a long list of things without actually knowing what’s in it. Oh, and some buffs to things you won’t even remember we have!

Should fill the gap of not having the devs.

More serious: devless can be ok if there is a really balanced set up of guests.
We don’t want to hear everybody talking about themselves after all. Something people don’t plan on doing, but it is often the devs who create the bigger picture across the played professions. Even just because they’re the ones everybody asks all sort of questions…

I really like SotG, and keep at it. You don’t need devs each time.

and here it begins…

Could we get some buffs to go with the nerfs please, and maybe something more substantial than a 5 sec cooldown reduction on a minor thing?

No buffs to HGH of course, to the OTHER builds.

Thanks.

Maskaganda.2043:

@ kimbald , lol :p

if you bump, bump it with sillyness

I think you have other options especially in a bigger group.

Support with elixir infused bombs, or a very decent WvW FT/EG set up.

It’s when roaming I think your options get less.
There player skill defines what your build can add.

I might go condi-burst HGH and still lose every fight because i’m not used to it.
On the other hand: if I take a FT/EG build roaming, I might still lose because I can’t kill my opponent untill he goes afk to message his Facebook friends about this annoying engineer…

An engineer can support a group in more builds than he can go succesfully roaming I think.

NevirSayDie.6235:

If you are using p/p or p/s, the stats from both weapons are taken into account for your kit attacks. So yes, using a pistol/shield combination with zerker stats would give you 180 power compared to 179 from the rifle. They are essentially the same.

Also, yes, if you use PVT gear, your kit attacks will have reduced critical chance. You will keep the extra defense while using a kit, of course.

The real benefit of using two weapons as opposed to a rifle, if you are planning to use mainly kits, is that you will get two sigils to work with instead of one. Other than that, rifle vs. pistol does not significantly impact your kits’ effectiveness.

This is correct.
To add concerning dual sigils: just check the wiki for sigil info:

if one has a cooldown, no matter what type (on crit, on swap…) it will override the other one with a proc on cooldown.
They don’t have to be the same, they just need to have both a cooldown.
if so, than the second one can’t proc untill the first one is of cooldown again. Making sure you never get both up at the same cooldown.

So if one sigil says anything at all about a cooldown, than couple it with one that has none (10% burn duration or whatever…)

Jay.4837:

Who’s the squeakiest wheel? QQ-more whiners. After that? The “I dominate your face and am bored with my OP class. Nerf me or my legions and I will quit,” crowd. So, all you can do is hope and pray that HGH falls somewhere between the two.

or basically pray no dev has a second cousin whispering him he got owned by a 24k HGH condi burst…

I’m an engineer for life as well.
I fear I might sooner quit the game than quit my engineer.

Mind you: it should be clear from my posts that I’m extremely critical of the design choices for this prof.
But in-game: I go with what I have and enjoy myself.
Being critical is for the forums, when I play I fail smiling or win against my own expectations!

As for skins: I turned and twisted existing easy gear untill i got this halfish steampunk sort of engineer with a bionic robot arm (in my imagination it is at least…)
Far from perfect, and hardly original. Still it’s the best I could come up with for something that should resemble a mechanic-engineer typ of character.

I’ll pass on most of the special skins people go after.
We look too much alike as it is in this game…

Of all the build names engineers come up with, I think this one is the most intrigueing!

What build do you use?
‘The tenth build’
Bit like the Sixth Sense and the Seventh Seal, and the Fifth Element…
(the middle being my favourite)

Bit less when I realise it might be the tenth video, but the build still is that condi HGH p/p thing again
But still, sounds cool…

NevirSayDie.6235:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Go turrets! Someone asked me to post my turret build, so this seemed like a good place for it:
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.4.8.0.0.0.33.0.0.0.80.94.85.86.102.8.8.12.228.234.0.0.0.0.256.0.0.276.271.0.289.291.0.20.0.10.20.20

I used to think the devs weren’t good at PvP. Now my theory is that they’re just asked to use niche builds to demonstrate their viability. I tip my hat to you for not only using two turrets but also taking kit refinement in the same build. It’s…not easy to make those work.

It is a bit suspicious, isn’t it

The one time we get a dev posting an engineer build, it has Turrets AND Kit refinement, after the patch and all…

But that’s also us being too tangled up in conspiracy theories. In all fairness: that was my thought as well when I saw the build.
Let’s hope he just likes to play that.

The remarks about KR being used as stunbreak do make me wonder a bit though. Might just sound like a theorycrafted build somewhat.

Still, I really aprreciate Tyler giving feedback here, he does know he comes standing directly in the line of fire of cynical kittens like us.
We might be wrong, we might even be right… but that still doesn’t change the fact he is talking to us, and he’s pretty brave at that!

Jay.4837:

There should be a trait that makes turrets mobile, but really slow.

someone did a great suggestion in another post:

let turret cooldowns count from putting down, not from picking up.
The result is: when picked up after their normal cooldown duration, you can put down immediately.
If before their normal duration (25 sec flame, 50 sec rocket, etc) you can’t put down till that timer is fully done.

When destoyed, or exploded yourself, they get their normal duration of course.
Their has to be a punishment when the enemy takes them out, or we use them to detonate!

Phineas, just returning to the bigger picture here:

let’s say that gadgets are as usefull as elixirs, which you seem to be arguing.
A valid point, even I don’t think it holds for the ‘group of gadgets’ versus ‘the group of elixirs’.
Still: let’s say they are…

if they are equally usefull, than why do the elixirs have such strong traits, that define our strongest builds no less.
And gadgets have none?

Surely, if they are equal after all, they could have several traits buffing their use, just like elixirs have?

Condition removal on gadget use for example.
Some elixirs even remove conditions as it is! They get that on top of that.

Same for might: elixir B already gives might and other boons, and it has a minor trait giving one B for free at 75%!
Yet elixirs get the extremely powerfull and defining trait HGH and gadgets get nothing even remotely comparable to that.
Plenty of things to give, stability being the most fitting and missing in my view

So it’s about the traits, as much as it is about gadgets vs elixirs.

At the moment you seem to be saying that gadgets are about equal to fully traited elixirs.
Because that is the REAL comparison.
On that one I would have to disagree with you in the strongest way.

garethh.3518:

Adamantium.3682:

RaynStargaze.6510:

^oh rly? so you just sit there and never use medkit or bombkit until you get stunned?

pro strat!

I wonder why we never get Devs to comment here.

Raynstargaze doesn’t have a reputation for formulating his opinion in the most polite and kind manner
He can come out pretty harsh at times in the way he says things, as he does now.

But in all fairness: he does have a point on this one.
I wouldn’t formulate it like this at all… but I do wonder the same: how does Tyler rely on the trait effect? By not using either of his kits until stunned? Or only once every 20 seconds?

On topic: I think you hit a sensitive string here.
For what I can gather the engineer design lacks a clear vision, mostly because it wasn’t finished in time I think.

I could be wrong, but I agree the dev’s could use a hand from player feedback here.
Just don’t underestimate them either.

They are of course professional and smart enough.
They have more things to consider than what we see.
Still, in general I think they lack a rounded vision for the profession.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I’m really tired of seeing threads like this.

Please, if you’re that frustrated with the class, just quietly re-roll and play something else for a while. Don’t delete your Engineer. Just leave it alone. It won’t disappear. It’ll stay there when you return. If you do.

But please stop with these doom and gloom threads; they promote nothing, and it’s really obnoxious to people like myself that have to keep answering the same questions to new players who write new threads because legitimately good threads keep getting pushed off the top page.

please stop the arguments about ‘legitemately good threads being pushed back’.
If those threads are that good, and that many… they’ll get responses and stay on top.
This thread is as valid than the next.
You’re just using an argument to express you don’t like these kind of posts. But that doesn’t mean your argument is actually relevant.
It’s an opinion, your opinion.

You tell people to stop playing their engineer if they find it is lacking.
I could tell you to stop replying to posts you find are lacking… you’re pushing back all those legitemately good threads by the way

Not that I want you to stop replying, but I would like to show you your argument is rather biased and flawed.
You are NOT a forum moderator, it is NOT up to you to decide what posts are valid or not. (caps for coolness and some emphasis).
Express your disagreement, sure… but as soon as you tell people to stop writing and worse: stop playing, you are severaly stepping out of line.

Personally I like reading your opinion, but not your directives to others.

You’re a player with an opinion, just like us. And you have things you deem important and others you don’t… just like us.

nakoda.4213:

keep the KR talk in the KR thread plx.

this is about turrets.

tell that to the dev…
He uses KR in his turret build, so questions were asked about that and a few other things we found surprising.

by the way, I want to explain something about my recent posts (about turrets, Kit refinement, now elixirs and traits…)

The discussions on the engineer forum tend to go in ‘yay’ and ‘nay’ a lot as usual.
Even though i’m often on the ‘nay’ side, I still want to have open and constructive discussions.
So I pick a field where I think the design is lacking, or where I’m not sure what to think.
Than I write a post that is too long, and throw it out there for discussion.

I hope, when it adresses a more seperate mechanic, that the discussion will be about that aspect (as happens here for example).

So I welcome people disagreeing with me, else the discussion would be useless.
I’m not to keen on seeing opinions disguised as facts too much, but if that’s the worst the discussion brings than it’s still decent for forum standards

Just thought I would explain myself a bit here. I’m not writing hidden whine posts, i’m trying to point at what I think needs improvement. And always looking for different views to open up my horizon.

Sepahbod.4653:

In combat would certainly be better then how it works now. Surely from a technical aspect it would be easy to implement. But the problem with KR is that the spells it creates feel deliberate due to their active nature and when you can not use them reliably at decisive moments it feels like a waste.

single kit and only usable in combat.
That’s how I see the new KR being decent.
Still a 20 sec cooldown is too long for most effects, but at least you could rely on the effect when you wanted it.

When a dev says he uses it when stunned, swapping to one of his 2 kits, I wonder what he did with his kits those 20 seconds before getting stunned… because he can’t have used either of those kits pior to that moment, if you want to be sure you get the effect.

When I use multiple kits, I swap sometimes on the second, often after 4-5 seconds… only occasionaly i would be in one kit for 20 seconds. When I do that, it means I’m doing an easy fight and than frankly: who cares about that little KR effect when the fight is easy?

Back to turrets: what turrets do you lot prefer?
I think net turret is a clear winner, and rifle turret for (power) Static discharge builds.
I like rocket turret a lot, but hate the cooldown. And it’s sort of easy to avoid of course.
The long range is nice, but it also means it ends up targeting whatever runs around

Easiest fix to Kit refinemnt would have been: remove the too strong super elixir and grenade barrage, but leave the rest of the mechanic as it was… those were the 2 parts considered ‘too strong for a 10 point trait’.
Or your solution of course: stronger all around but as 30 GM trait.
My solution was more realistic, but they even didn’t want to do that…

Anyhow, gadgets are of course usefull.
But where i see elixirs in most of the builds (not all, just most) I only occasionaly see a gadget in there… big sign something is wrong.
And elixirs do not offers knockbacks or 10 stacks of vulnerability (on a waaaay too long cooldown by the way) but they offer a crapload of other good stuff. Don’t make it sound as if both have their equal uses. Elixirs are far more usefull to most builds and aspects of the game.
Do gadgets rezz, do they give mutliple boons, do they give invulnerability? Etc etc… it’s a silly discussion;: they both do cool things, only elixirs have the traits to back it up, where gadgets don’t…

There is no argument why gadgets shouldn’t get traits that remove conditions on use, or give might (or another boon, stability would be cool as trait for gadgets).

Elixirs are fine by the way.
It’s the rest I feel is lacking in the trait department mostly.
Gadgets have no real traits, and turret traits are weak and scattered.
Kits do fine in traits, but as soon as you use more than 2 kits, you can never trait for all of it. You say this is intended, I say I want to hear a dev say that first.
I personally think it is bad design, or sloppy design, or unfocused design mostly… just scrambled together bit by bit after launch because they didn’t finish it properly.

Just looking at the traits: there is a reason the most popular and best engineer build currently is working on elixir traits mostly you know… you can’t achieve that kind of strenght with turret or gadget traits, kit traits you can depending on the kit.

Slamz.5376:

Kit refinement:
What if it only worked in combat?

One of my main complaints about it is that it conflicts with Speedy Kits. I end up using my cooldown spells from kit refinement while swapping kits for speed. I’m always dropping some silly effect just running from place to place.

that’s the least they could do… It’s not like the tool kit 2 sec speed is usefull out of combat anyhow.
You would take speedy kits for that, any day…

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kimbald.2697:

Multi-kit builds, multi-turret builds, and worse of all multi-gadget builds all lack in several departments. While multi-elixir builds can give you everything you need.

Don’t you think maybe this is intentional? A Guardian gives up a stunbreaker slotting consecrations on his bar. A Warrior gives up a stunbreaker slotting a banner on his bar.

We give up a stunbreaker slotting kits on our bar. Maybe Engineers need to start to accept that four-kit builds are really just a gimmick and not how the Engineer is intended to be played. Certainly you can do it, just like a Warrior could fill their bar with banners, but there are sacrifices; I run with the FT + EG all the time and still do just fine. If I need additional stunbreakers, I have to give up the Elixir Gun.

This is balance.

Elixirs and gadgets are our shouts and signets, essentially. If you look at them that way, things start to make a lot more sense. And I disagree that much work needs to be done on gadgets. Reducing their cooldowns is pretty much the extent of it.

yet they made elixir U a stunbreaker in the same patch they destroyed the poor man’s stunbreaker that Kit Refinement was…

Kit refinement was a good compromise: the stun stays, but you’re not entirely helpless either.

I totally disagree on the gadgets: half of them is enver used, if even that much.
Mine is pretty good again, after a long recovery. Rocket boots are nice but they’re basically an escape where you self-stun after moving out of harm’s way. Compare it to elixir S or R and it’s rubbish…

As for their traits: why isn’t there a trait that removes conditions on gadget use? Their cooldowns are comparable to elixirs and their utility is LESS.
Gadgets would deserve such a trait before elixirs do, heck a few elixirs even remove conditions as it is.
Or a trait that gives might? Again: elixirs already offer better boons than gadgets, by a long margin…

First the good:

Elixirs do have it all!

Untraited even, they offer:
- boons
- applying conditions
- condition removals
- aoe projectile reflect or blocking
- several stunbreakers that all are usefull for other things as well
- (self) rez
- securing stomps or escapes
- support both offensive as defensive

Their traits:
- allow for might stacking
- are all in one logical line, not scattered
- offer great defenses as well as superb offense
- reduce the reasonable cooldowns to cooldowns that make a difference
- benefit from the line they are in for most elixirs
- work on ALL elixirs without exception, thrown or used (let’s call EG ‘elixirs’ not elixirs since they’re not…)

You can never use them all, so you always have to chose. Still they offer a lot of utility no matter what combo you make.

Elixirs are the most versatile and strongest skill set an engineer has acces too, and compared to the rest, their design is superb.
They’re not perfect, but they’re very good.

The bad:

the other sets of engineer skill do not have it all…

Untraited:
- kits still have no stunbreaker
- kits only have 1 ability that removes conditions
- kits have only a small ‘regeneration’ in EG, no other boons or buffs

- gadgets have only rocket boots removing a few immobilize conditions, not a single damage condition removal

- turrets have no stun breaker
- turrets have no condition removal aside healing turret itself
- turrets have still some unreasonable cooldown mechanics

Traited:
- only Flamethrower gets might
- gadget traits are non existant, aside the standard cooldown lowering
- kit traits are good, but hard to trait for mutliple kits seeing where the traits sit
- turret traits are mostly very weak AND also scattered all over the place.

Neither turrets, kits or worse of all gadgets, offer the utility elixirs give. Several are hardly used or totally gimmicky.
Some are quite good of course, but in general they aren’t as streamlined in design as elixirs… not by far.

I realise I’m generalising, this isn’t a totally objective presentation.
Still it shows the difference between elixirs on one side, and the other sets on the other side.
The spectrum of ‘well designed’ goes from elixirs… … … kits… … turrets… gadgets.

Multi-kit builds, multi-turret builds, and worse of all multi-gadget builds all lack in several departments.
While multi-elixir builds can give you everything you need.

Most important solution! Elixir design should be the standard to which the other sets are measured!

Shadow.3475:

Was thinking about rebuilding my engineer and change to armour that give condition damage, Toughness and Precision then the question is what to use for runes, my idea is 5 Rune of Lyssa + 1 with +28 condition damage or 5 Rune of the Engineer + 1 with +28 condition damage or 6 Rune of Divinity.
6 on Lyssa: When you use an elite skill, lose all conditions and gain all boons for 5 seconds. feel like yea that i do 1 every day so pointless.
And 6 on Rune of the Engineer give +5% damage while holding a bundle. with am not sure what it meen but my guess is if you use flametrower or grenat you get 5%.

all kits count as ‘bundles’ in this game yes. So Flamethrower, grenades… and bombs, tool kit, elixir gun and even med kit.

As for the 6 runes of Lyssa: it would be great if used with supply crate. Simply because you use supply crate while you continue to fight normal. It is not an elite that changes what you do like elixir X, Mortar or the racial elites.
And if you only use supply crate once a day, you either are wasting it, or you simply only play 3 minutes a day
Not saying you need it while questing and exploring, but on most other stuff it’s dam usefull.

The sad part is: I think those 6 runes of Lyssa still don’t proc on supply crate… for some reason it doesn’t count as an elite for those runes.
Maybe they fixed it, but last that I heard it still didn’t work.

engineers got some attention, in fact: they recently got more attention than they had for a long long time.

So people are trying out their engineers again. Players are testing the ‘improved’ turrets, many are giving the rumoured HGH condi burst a go.

It’s not surprising that we see much more engineers now.
I only have these two questions about that rising:
1. How many different builds do we really see?
2. How long will this last? Will we reach a point where most realise it’s not all that easy mode still?

danbuter.2314:

They nerf the engineer every single patch. There is no way they won’t nerf it again next patch (HGH or SD?).

good or bad, we did get a long list of changes this patch. So I doubt we’ll get another long list next time.

Not that the following would be a ‘long’ list of course:
- static discharge now has a 10 second cooldown
- HGH now only gives 1 stack of might, reverted from 2

But let’s not be overly pessimistic

Hammerguard.9834:

I don’t know why everyone keeps talking about this kitten condition build as if everyone uses it. It’s really expensive to switch around builds in this game and I doubt many people made the switch let alone tried it out in sPvP.

they’ll probably made the switch in spvp easier because of the free gear.
It’s in the pve and WvW that the cost might be too high for some.

Many are testing turret builds by the way, and some have video’s of decent results with them.
But turrets do stay a gimmicky thing, bit like the 4-kit engineer before. It works to some extend, but only a few feel like risking it.

The shame is that they didn’t buff turrets to a level where they can be usefull in bigger fights.
They are a skirmisher thing, at best. Turrets still die like nothing, and the best cooldowns are still too long. Not to mention the traits never got adjusted.
Bit harsh how they feel the need to make Kit refinement weaker as a 10 pointer, while leaving other weak traits unbuffed. Their logic doesn’t work both ways it seems…

In WvW my turrets last a second or two, meaning that Throw Mine is actually a better version of a fully traited turret in there: it knocks back as it dies the first second, that’s about it. Mine at least removes a boon an dhas a short cooldown.

As for HGH condi burst and the other variations:
elixirs simply have it all, while gadgets, turrets and kits all lack one thing or the other.
Elixir traits remove conditions, buff might, on top of having stunbreakers AND boons, AND dodges, and even removing conditions without traits…

Compared to that: what do the other options have?
Not one other set of skills has what elixirs have.
And it seems the devs couldn’t care less about that uneveness…

2 nice guides so far, keep em coming.

well, they did nerf their duration because of ossible afk farming and such…
So my guess is that they don’t want them used as you did.

the 5 min timer hurts in pve bossfights that last a bit, and in some tpvp matches I suppose, if they’re really slow…

The timer by itself isn’t the worst part: it is the fact that you get the FULL turret cooldown when they disappear.
Let them disappear but give them a 5 sec cooldown to put them up again at most.
This way you can’t go afk, but you’re not suddenly left without your turrets either mid-fight.

waka.9826:

Adamantium.3682:

waka.9826:

Coated bullets is kitten because pistol is an kitten main hand weapon.

I’m guessing this is sarcasm but you shouldn’t mislead new players like this.

Not being sarcastic, you don’t spam pistol 1 long enough for coated bullets to be even remotely worth taking as a 30 point trait.

Unless we are talking about pve and wvw then do as you please because you can get 10000000000000000000% condi duration and all that jazz.

I think he was referring to the part where you’re saying that pistol is a kittening main hand weapon, not the coated bullets trait as such…

Fairtex.7810:

Kimbald.2697:

Fairtex.7810:

Kimbald.2697:

On the topic of turrets: their targeting needs work, and they’re still rather squishy.
I love the damage rocket turret does, it hits the hardest of all turrets, but if that one shot is wasted on a pet or something… it’s frustrating.

At first it was very frustrating to see my turrets target the wrong thing. I’ve started to appreciate it to some extent because from watching some of my clips you can see where it has saved me. Plus, its not like a shot is totally wasted if it hits the ranger pet. they are annoying.

You’ll also notice that clones will attack my turrets instead of me at times. and they do squat for damage. If there was a way to make them target your target on command…

the poor UI can be usefull and actually save you by targeting the pet or clone, but the thing is that it’s random…
You can’t rely on it.

my suggestion, to be more reliable:
1. my target
2. if no target, player attacking me
3. if no target, and no player attacking me: npc attacking me
4. if none of the above: do nothing, keep still, just look pretty and turrety and be still.

The thing is its not random though, it targets closest enemy to turret. I’m not against your suggestions but if you make them target your target, target swapping (2v1s) is out of the question. Whenever you would switch a target for CC or whatever, your turrets physically take time to rotate, and they’re not attacking during this time. What i like to do in a 2v1 situation is pay attention to who my turrets are targeting and I will target the other player. Every so often i’ll be able to pull of a 2v1 this way.

I completely agree that you can’t rely of turret targeting. You just have to have great awareness and be able to make decisions on the fly. I know a lot of people don’t like the targeting AI, and i get it, but i personally have accepted it for what it is and found ways to use it to my advantage. But i know i could find ways to play with your suggestions too.

thanks for the post

Is that reliable, that closest to the turret?
If so, I’m thinking of skipping deployable turrets and will stop putting them on edges and roofs. I do this to keep them safe mostly.

What I am practicing on now, is to run in and drop turrets where they are.
I swap tool kit and start bashing in the overcharges.
If they aoe and kill my turrets, the turrets explode and knockback… making that not a total loss.
In this scenario, the closer my turrets are to me, and my enemy, the more i can count on them targeting him and not a pet wandering about?

Funny how the GM trait Armor Mods is also outclassed by the first minor trait in Alchemy:
drinking an elixir B for free at 75% beats having the 5 sec retal on a 25 sec cooldown I think.
Maybe not on very long fights, but on most fights I think the elixir B is better.

And you can’t control either of them, so that’s not a valid difference.
At 75% health isn’t too low either, as a proc. Making that usefull for almost every fight.

The first thing I expect is to ‘fix’ how different rune sets stack.
Probably intended, but seeing how many just combine 2 runes of a set with others, they’ll let the effects override each other I guess.

Bit worried that HGH as a trait might see it’s effect lowered too.

At least we know someone will have to tell one of the devs the specc is too strong, in that one interview it appeared to be hearsay mostly what got 100nades nerfed.
No that the devs didn’t see some things themselves, but it sounded a bit like they had no real view themselves, and just went on what they were told by others about it.

it shines when fighting one big bad npc who you don’t want to get close to, and that you fight with others (veterans, champions, bosses…).
You can weaken him, support he others with condi removal and a bit of healing, and when he comes your way: jump out with #4 and let him eat some of that damage and continue from a distance again.

For real solo stuff, or worse: for taking on multiple mobs: get something else like bombs or grenades, or the flamethrower that complements the Elixir Gun somewhat…

it’s pretty glass canon turret… your turrets might live longer than you under attack

Fairtex covered it, not much relevant I can add.

If you get the jump on someone with all turrets out and ready to overcharge, you can lock him down for most of the fight. Stun, knockdown, immobilize.
Whoever you’re fighting with all those up, will hate you because they will be incapable of doing something half the fight.
But outside of that window you might have issues only relying on p/p without elixirs or might…
The blind from flame turret is a life-saver, but it better be ready when they come for you. And they better be in range

We have:

- grenadier: soooo strong as trait that it totally makes or breaks grenade usage.

- HGH: like grenadier, builds are build upon this one. I never use it, but it’s pretty awesome of course.

- juggernaut: strong, but under debate because it punishes us for swapping out of the FT while not being strong enough to stay in the FT…

- coated bullets: many like it, but it’s not a must-have trait. Also odd that it’s all it does, while rifle gets this baseline…

- elixir-infused bombs: not bad at all, but when push comes to shove, our healing bombs are not healing enough to make it a real awesome GM trait.

after 2 great ones, 2 or 3 debatable ones who are still good… I’m stuck a bit.
I was hoping for more good ones, but I can’t list any that I know are build defining… or even used a lot.

This is NOT a terrible result by the way.
But it’s a bit sad the Tools GM traits aren’t worth mentioning as ‘build defining’.
For me our GM traits either need a few tweaks (coated bullets, juggernaut, maybe even elixir-infused bombs) and a few need straight hard buffing.

Grenadier on the other hand is too strong as trait: grenades need to be better baseline, so the trait (and the 25 trait before) are needed less to make grenades work.
End result should not be weaker, just less emphasis on the trait itself.

Istarien.3147:

Kimbald.2697:

And versatile means ‘some support, decent survivability, decent but not strongest dps, etc…’

I’ve been running the following in WvW for quite some time. It’s not very good for solo/small group, but I run with a large guild force, generally. Note that the gear is chosen for survivability, since that’s usually our biggest concern. You could easily use the gear recommended in this thread to increase both your condition duration/damage and your buff duration.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pqbHxynF17IyoCdWoHDWhpWfeIXPIEC;ToAA1CtosxYjwGrNObk2MEZiB (copy and paste)

Melee & ranged options, good in the water, good against architecture & siege, stun break, stun, daze, knockback(x2), fire/light/smoke/poison fields, blast(x3)/projectile(x2) finishers, perma-swiftness, might, regen, fury, protection, blind, confuse, poison, chill, bleed, vulnerability, burn, weakness, cripple, and several options for healing self and others. Best used with Endurance regen food for more dodges (which drop bombheals). That’s not a bad checklist. I know it’s not as high damage as some other builds, but I have yet to find another setup where I feel as versatile and resilient as I do running this Demolitions build.

that actually was one of my experiments in WvW, that very build.
It has a bit of everything indeed and is likely one of the more versatile builds I ever tried.

It’s not a soloing build though, or even for smaller skirmishes.
Think that is it’s main issue: you’re not killing smart players in small fights, but you do survive pretty good as well.
It’s one of the better multi-kit builds I had, aside the moe obvious EG/FT versions.
It’s mostly a pretty great group build, and for my standards it really shined in WvW groupfights, even zergs if lag allowed…

Fun aspect: your healing bombs actually hurt like hell as well… they’re not just ‘heals’.

As for gear: in WvW larger groups I ran it full soldiers I think. Power is basically all you need to make it work.

I had a name for it by the way: ‘The Mad Bomber’
The build uses explosives to the fullest

For general use, do you guys prefer the flame or the rocket turret?

The flame has several advantages, like lower cooldown to start, bit more aoe near the turret. And of course: the blind is pulsing several times and a smoke field, two very important features of it.

But the rocket turret knocks down once or twice every 20 seconds (depending on when you press overcharge) and it hits a LOT harder.
The knockdown is a lot of control over a character, but the downside is that it is easy to avoid without the net turret.
The auto attack as well has great burn but still good direct damage too.
And the range of course: much much longer.
Longer cooldown too of course, much much longer… sigh.

On dummies the rocket turret burns down a target about double as fast as the flame.
Couple that with the sitting duck trait and a net turret, and it goes even better because the direct damage benefits from the vuln stacks more.

Convince me of why the flame turret would be the better choice, currently tempted to go with the rocket turret.
My other turret will most likely be the net turret.
I think net turret has more uses than the thumper, which seems point holder mostly.
But that’s another debate of course: net vs thumper.