Guild Wars 2

Turrets got buffed, lots of people trying them out a bit.

Sadly turret traits are all over the place.
20 explosives, 30 inventions, 20 tools for the tool kit repair… all over it.

What traits do you think are worth it, and what traits do you think are not worth it?

I like the knockback on exploding, but taking that means I let go of the 30% less damage and self-healing.
I do notice my turrets die to a few hits from underleveled mobs. Very, VERY sad sight.

15% more damage and longer range? Not sure about that one. It’s 30 points in a line not boosting your damage otherwise.

20/0/30/0/20 is a theoretical possible build… but seriously?

What do you think.
IF you try to use turrets of course.

I know a lot of things got worse, this thread is NOT about those valid concerns.

What are you trying out since the patch?

I am trying out a build with piercing pistols, lots of condition damage.
Pistol shield, tempted for p/p (situational I guess)
A net turret, a rocket turret and the tool kit.
For healing I use the med kit. I would use the healing turret in synergy with the other 2 turrets, but I feel I would lose out on too much condition removal.

Strong points of my tests:
- a lot of stunning and knockdowns if I overcharge both turrets, shield added too if going all out offensive with it. This is a spamming of ‘stuns’.
- lots of blocking and such, especially if using shield.
- tool kit offers good melee, and confusion added with pistol
- in bigger fights or zergs: pistol piercing, tool kit utility, and blowing up turrets mostly.

Weak points:
- turrets die so freaking easy!
- not so mobile once turrets are down.
- no stunbreaker
- weak condition removal
- burst only works if rocket turret hits, which is easy to avoid (less easy if net turret hits first )
- no significant boons

Just some testing, but it’s what I do since the patch.

Share your testing, keep it down on the general complaining and arguing. We do that plenty in other threads (me as well).

Kardiamond.6952:

@Phineas

How do you do then? How do you get HGH, Deadly mixture and 409 on the same build?

wondering as well.
Would be nice to see.

Dirame.8521:

You should understand that some build are just too good. Cases where there’s little chance for retaliation or the build just does too much damage. In those cases, things have to be nerfed.

that’s acceptable.
If they do it for all professions in the same way of course.

What is annoying, is that they hurt builds that were anything but overpowered or bursty.
This patch pushed engineers more towards rather simple elixir builds, HGH and mostly the condition versions.
Many will keep a HGH power build, but still elixirs…

The only build that will get some attention as well, will be static discharge, because of the buff to rifle turret.
But turrets as a whole, didn’t get buffed enough to make a real difference.
Let a mob hit your turret, just test it… Now imagine that is a player with a brain and some ranged aoe.

Multi-kit builds got hit hard. The only non- healing kit with condition removal is now the EG. And that cooldown just got doubled…
Not to mention multi-kit builds are now useless when stunned, completely.

They are moving away from creative and diverse builds.
Saying this is because of some overpowered builds is no a good explanation to do this.

they should have changed EG proc, that one was very strong.
But FT should have kept it’s condition removal.

Very simple, very balanced.

this patch even removed a lot of the condition removal you could have with FT (or EG).
Go figure, that too is a push in the favour of elixir builds…

Phineas Poe.3018:

Kardiamond.6952:

HGH is a completly different line.

You can build a Grenade Engineer with HGH, and still have the formula 409, something you can’t have if you spec for FT.

Why exactly can’t FT Engineers have Cleansing Formula 409?

you can…
But than you need 30 points in the alchemy line as well. Unless you give up 15% damage on your flamethrower, a weapon that already is a bit behind in damage.

This results in either a FT with 15% less damage, or a build having very little leeway with only 10 points left.

This touches on a general engineer issue that this patch even made worse:
elixir traits are great, usefull and reachable.
While kit traits got weaker and are very spread out.
Turret traits are all over the place as well, and hardly make a difference when your turret is attacked.
Gadget traits are almost non-existing…

Backpack regen vs condition removal on using or throwing elixirs?
They don’t even out, they really don’t…
HGH vs only might for juggernaut, not for a single other kit?
All traits in the same position, but not in the same strenght.

Not a single trait for condition removal, or even healing, when doing something with a turret, or a gadget.

They gave elixir traits everything that the other utilities should have as well.
While elixirs already have all the boons and support as it is.

acedragonz.9387:

“Major nerf minor buffs”…..pfffffft riiiiiight. For me it was no nerf, nice buffs & probably for a lot of other people aswell…. stop kittening about KR kitten & try out some new stuff for once..

what new stuff?

Turrets? They still die in a few hits, so that sort of ruins their buffs…

Kits? I was a 3 or 4 kit engineer always, I embodied ‘trying out new stuff’.
This patch showed me such builds as mine will never be viable.

Gadgets?
Plenty of new stuff to try out indeed. Maybe because a gadget build is a gimmicky joke that ends up weaker than a 4 kit build?

Elixirs?
New stuff for me, since I didn’t use them. I was stupid not to.
Elixirs are the only utilities we have that can do everything, from support to burst, to cleansing, to survival, to stunbreaking.
The traits for elixirs are awesome. I ould only dream of having equal traits for turrets, kits, or god forbid: gadgets!

p/p HGH? That’s not the new stuff, that’s what most will be running…

Not so happy.

Simply because it’s slowly starting to dawn that we have variants of the elixirs HGH builds… and that’s about it.

Turrets buffed? Sure, but they still die in a few hits.

How many viable builds do we have without a single elixir?
Without HGH?
For condition removal or for might, elixirs seem the way to go.
Not even counting all their real purposes.

Kits lost a lot of condition removal with the change to kit refinement.
Kits alos lost their usage when stunned. The new Kit Refinement doesn’t help you there, especially not because the 20 sec shared cooldown will mess you up anyhow.

Turrets got better, but did they really get good enough? Their traits are still all over the place!
Turrets don’t survive, no matter what you trait or do to repair them… If the enemy targets them, they die. Plain and simple.
And again: condition removal is a big issue: 60 seconds on healing turret overcharge still!
Stunned when turrets not out? Forget it… Different story when turrets are active, if they can find the right target. It’s not that they got a lot smarter.

Gadgets?
What about gadgets?
Seems the devs consider gadgets to be absolutely perfect in every way.
I don’t…

Static discharge build is still fun I guess, but you’ll still need better defenses.

So when I go over it all… I see elixir builds, with HGH mostly, and more and more condition based.

I do not see all those new options, sorry.

We can keep asking, but I think we can safely conclude that they frankly don’t give a dam my dear.

Isn’t the end result of the patch, when all is said and done, that we have p/p HGH condition burst… and that’s it?

1. Each effect has it’s own cooldown, not effecting the others.

2. The effects last a little longer.

As simple as that indeed…

Amadeus.5687:

@Kimbald you can buy it in WvW now, for 20 Badges of honor and then it’s a skin you can apply! You will find it at the armor seller, the last tap (just above selling) and then scroll down! So freakign amazing hehe

wooaaah

I already liked your video’s, now I almost want to have an in-game marriage with you!

On a more boring note: thanks.

Turrets die way to fast, and the traits helping that are all over the place.

Not saying they are useless, just saying I hoped the patch would adress the awfull design of the turret traits in 3 different lines…

Testing out a net turret – rocket turret combo myself right now.
Overcharging these is one hell of a frustrating combo for your enemy

Turrets need to survive aoe, only direct single target hits should hurt them.

There is also an incredible illogical aspect to their repair:
to repair them you need to have them close to you (for the range of the smack-whack-twack).
But to keep them alive you need to position them FAR from you….

One of these isn’t enough:
if close than the repair won’t save them.
if far, than any aoe can destroy them without you being able to do anything about it…

Turret traits are all over the place still. The patch didn’t help there.
One trait for 30% less damage… ANOTHER trait for self-healing (weak self healing by the way).
Another trait again, in a different line for faster repair?
Seriously? Why didn’t the patch adress this.

Than we have an exploding turret traits in yet another line, and a weak grandmaster trait for 15% more damage and increased range.
This is bad developping, it really is.

Amadeus.5687:

YES YES YES! After 6 LOOOOONG Month I now have my look in PVE!!! THANK YOU ANET!

The best, most awesome HAT is now mine!!!!

wanted that one as well but was sad to hear it couldn’t be found outside of pvp.
Where or haw can you get it now? Missed it in the patch notes I think.

Fun stuff.

Don’t you miss condition removal?
It seems your only option for that is the overcharged healing turret on 60 seconds.

anyone actually noticing that turrets live longer?

Simple stupid mobs just destroy them in 3 or 4 hits maximum.
It’s worrying to be honest…

Yamsandjams.3267:

Kimbald.2697:

Testing turrets at the moment.
Mostly net turret and rocket turret.

kittenhey still die fast to any mob hitting them.

I think they want you to repair them with the toolkit which is why they buffed the repair on it. I guess you’ll have to give up a turret to take it though.

Because, you know… spending your time repairing turrets is really the best way to kill your foes mid-fight.

Sad, isn’t it: to repair them, you need to be fighting real close to them.
Throw wrench alone isn’ going to cut it, by a long margin.

But when you fight close to them, in melee since you’re using the toolkit, than the enemies natural aoe will kill them regardless of your healing…

The best way to keep them alive is trait to put them down at range, so you can throw them up a rock or a roof.
But than you can’t repair them against ranged…
And some turrets need to be in close range anyhow.

The new buffs are cool, but you need so many traits to keep them barely alive… it’s sickening.

Testing turrets at the moment.
Mostly net turret and rocket turret.

Dam… they still die fast to any mob hitting them.

oh, and for those who aren’t testing this themselves yet: a small note that the patch notes didn’t mention…

all the effects are amazingly SHORT!

Like, real real short. So short they are gone by the time you read the tooltip.

Not arguing that it was a nerf to Elixir Gun.
Just pointing at possible uses and synergy.

To be honest: acid bomb itself should immobilize or at least cripple…

Group support as engineer got a huge nerf with these changes to Kit refinement, I totally agree.

I really think most effects are pretty cool.

Tool kit got more mobility, but i preferred the old effect. Still, not ‘bad’ now.

Elixir gun: works great with acid bomb, the hardest hitting ability on the kit.
The healing got nerfed… hard.

Flamethrower: more defense that hurts, on a kit already in melee range. Sad to see the condition removal go though.

Grenades, a mine at your feet on the only 1500 range weapon we have?
Not logical, but they wanted to enrf 100nades without taking away everything at close range I guess.

Med kit: waaaay better.

Bomb kit: a very usefull pull to bomb them better.

It’s not that the effects are bad, some are better, some a bit worse…

IT IS THE FREAKING SHARED COOLDOWN!!!

Give them all a SEPERATE 20 second cooldown.
That would be fair: use multiple kits… get multiple procs. Simple.
But each proc has it’s own cd of 20 seconds to balance it out.

on elixir gun this:

1. swap Elixir gun and glue

2. hit #4 and drop an acid bomb

3. start your shooting on the enemy getting hurt by the acid bomb.

This is a smart change, for a build using only EG it’s actually a usefull thing.

Cero.5132:

docbon.3486:

Penguin.5197:

Cero.5132:

huh… rocket boots feel a bit different… I havent used them for a long time but…. didnt they stun us for 2 seconds AFTER we flew back?
Now we´re “stunned” while we fly back and stand up almost immediately.

Really? I still feel the same when i tried it out

Yeah, me too. Got my hopes up. :\

Yeh I wasnt so sure about that because I havent used rocket boots for a long time o.o
Sorry for raising your hopes ._.

Hate you now.
We all do.
Boo!

I was a multi-kit engineer ever since I created this Wiggley Wombat sillyness.
Using 3 or 4 kits always.

Kit refinement was my solution to condition removal, and even my small replacement for not having a stunbreaker on ANY kit.

Now I’ll have to let this go.
Both the multi kits, since they just aren’t doing enough damage unless you trait heavily into a single kit.
And of course the kit refinement trait, since it fights with speedy kits, and mostly it fights with itself, every 20 seconds…

I see mostly elixir builds, which already were our strongest builds.

I also see bomb builds using one turret at most…

Apart from these, I see a lot of messy cooldowns, aoe still destroying all your turrets, and former 100naders cursing on why the mine didn’t trigger.

we had a few ‘good’ damage builds before the patch, and even support could work to some extend. 100 nades could be ridiculous burst, Elixir Gun could support well with double super elixir proc AND condition removal from kit refinement.
One of the strongest was p/p HGH (condi mostly)

They nerfed one strong damage build, actually nerfed the support builds too by ruining kit refinement.
And kits have less options to remove conditions now too, also a big nerf to multi-kit builds.

They buffed elixir U, making it a stunbreaker too.
While kits and turrets still don’t have a single stunbreaker.

In other words: they ruined several builds… but buffed the strongest elixir builds!

Incredibly weird.
I have no idea what the dev’s are thinking.

If this turns out to be the case, than the complaints about p/p HGH will come from two sides:
1. the other professions who complain about the strenght of this build.
2. the engineers who feel forced to use elixirs in every single viable build.

Weirdest thing for me: the old proc on tool kit from kit refinement, was actually one of the most balanced procs around.
It was simple, had utility, did a little damage and had a decent cooldown.

I have no idea why they felt they had to change this one too.

And a 20 sec global cooldown? Seriously?
The new Kit Refinement would be awesome if each proc had a seperate 20 sec cooldown, uneffected by each other proc.

In this form it’s more of a nuiissance than a benefit to any build using more than one single kit!

Cero.5132:

huh… rocket boots feel a bit different… I havent used them for a long time but…. didnt they stun us for 2 seconds AFTER we flew back?
Now we´re “stunned” while we fly back and stand up almost immediately.

sounds like a pretty awesome change.
Gadgets didn’t get nearly enough love this patch, so I hope they did put in some sneak buffs indeed.

in a build with a single kit, it’s cool to trait this and get a fun effect for free.

From the moment you use more than one kit, you’re in a mess with the 20 sec cooldown.
You never know what kit you’ll need, and what proc you’ll waste when you were waiting for the other effect.

Multi-kit builds got hit pretty hard.
No more condition removal, no more different proc effects to chain, no more usage when stunned…

What I find odd is this:

kit refinement is now useless as condition removal, and as a poor mans stun breaker in the way it used to chain effects when stunned.

Elixir U is now a stun breaker too, and it’s an alixir that can be traited to remove conditions on use (something no kit or gadget or turret can be traited for).

So are they really pushing engineers more towards the elixir builds?
Do the devs even know what our strongest builds are?

This is not the patch of turret builds, as they announced, it seems the patch that solidifies elixir builds as the best option for engineers.

Not sure what you guys think of this, but to me it seems like they just narrowed down engineer builds to mostly elixir builds.

Multi-kit builds just became a bigger mess than they already were, I’m afraid.
Kit refinement change sounds fun, but the 20 sec cooldown makes it terrible, regardless of all the fun changes. It’s only great if you use 1 kit.

Turrets got buffed, but they die just as fast, and act just as stupid?
Not sure if the increased damage and cooldowns will make up for that weakness.
Seems like a buff, question is: is it a real buff or just one that sounds good?

100 nades got destroyed, almost half of the burst is gone.
A mine is cool, but it’s not the burst grenade barrage gave.
Not saying it shouldn’t be nerfed, just saying it’s a straight and hard nerf.

So my biggest fear has become true:

engineers now have one strong build that just became stronger: p:p HGH condition burst.
All other builds seem to end up either a bit weaker, or a not buffed enough.

I hope I’m wrong, but that’s what I read in these patch notes.
Very odd way to take this profession…

Let them finish this game first, shall we.
Several professions still in the beta phase, and other unlikely stories.
Just like many of the selling mechanics haven’t been finetuned yet.

They’re not there yet…

Somehow I’m afraid we’ll end up with a totally overpowered condition burst p/p HGH build.
Followed by a load of underperforming ‘flavor’ builds people only pick pick because they think it’s ‘fun’.

also think of this: if they counted as ‘elixirs’ they would double dip from other traits.

Elixir gun and Flamethrower have a trait for 20% cd reduction.
Elixirs ALSO have a trait for 20% cooldown reduction.

Elixirs giving might with HGH, should that work on EG too?

Elixir durations?

I don’t believe it’s about the wording of the trait ‘thrown or used’ opposite ‘shooting’ them.
I think they simply don’t count as elixirs, not for any elixir trait, despite their very misleading tooltips…

To be honest: I don’t have a clue.
Many guesses, but it could be a lot more, or a lot less.

Turret changes? Obviously, but how and what? No idea.

Kit refinement: hopefully some buffs to go along with the nefs to grenades and EG proc.

It better be worth it, it is time…

The 30% damage reduction would be a great trait… IF the base hp and toughness would be better.
Currently it’s more like ‘30% of nothing is still nothing’ to exagerate a bit.

The selfhealing is too low, way too low.

Turret traits are pretty underwhelming, simply because the turret design is bad at the moment.

Turrets need lower cooldowns on most, and overcharges that work immediately.
As well as some toughness and hp…

Let’s see what the changes bring.
It could be worth it, or it could be a lot of talk for little real effect.
We’ll know soon enough.

Rfreak.6591:

I don’t know that either, I do hope though… I was merely presuming the reason they are buffing, not that there’s much to presume, they need a serious buff, except for healing turret I think that one’s fine.

60 seconds cooldown on a single condition removal, that doesn’t even start the second you press the button… is not fine in my book.

Lower the overcharge cooldown, make it instant as well, and perhaps let it cleanse on an interval instead of just once.

I’m afraid they all need work, even the healing turret, which indeed seems like the best of them at the moment.

Mortar weaknesses that I woul like to see fixed:

- the range, as discussed over and over

- the deadzone: if a melee gets to your mortar, you need the self heal and the knockback ON YOURSELF.
Those 2 at least should have zero deadzone

- the cooldowns. The skills take too long, you can’t pressure anyone who is mobile and has a brain.
The only use is for zergs at the door, or npc’s acting stupid.
Grenades have this issue too, but at least you can move and adapt.
Lower cooldowns would increase the damage too. At least a trait should get this done.

- too low hp. It is stationary, and you are stuck inside of it. It can’t die as fast as it does now.
To be honest: since you take damage anyhow, it shouldn’t be destroyed at all unless the engineer dies.

you know what’s silly too: even if ALL turret related traits would work on mortar, you would have to spend so many traits just to make your elite ‘decent’.
Supply crate is great even without the traits…

And let’s say you are a turret engineer, so you woiuld spend all those points on turrets anyhow.
Than why on earth wouldn’t you use the supply crate which drops a bunch of turrets?

If a turret engineer becomes viable indeed next patch, I would assume that turret engineer would use the supply crate.

Mortar needs to be improved, without a single trait being necessary.

It says on the box it turns your pistol into a mini-flamethrower, and that’s exactly what it does!
Miss, miss, miss…

Wuffles.5319:

AuRiley.5287:

I’m surprised no one mentioned this lil’ gem here. It’s the most engineer-y looking thing for me, at least. It matches my gear, too.

Asura Tier 3 Shield:

This is what I use for my Asura.

Other than the eye-patch-goggle thing, can someone link me a bunch of armor that actually DOES look VERY steam punk ish? I haven’t run into any good stuff that i’ve seen

Not ‘VERY’ but just a little, if you play with the colors a bit…
The whisper’s gear has some possibilities. But it’s not a real steampunk set of course. It’s the closest I can achieve though.

Tyaen.5148:

Kimbald.2697:

I’m using a silly basic shield.
Simply because it’s one of the few darn shields out there that says ‘engineer’ to me.

Picture attached, not for bragging rights since it’s a low level basic piece of junk… but to show what I mean with ‘engineer’ looking.

So, apply the skin to high level shield.

Duh

The ‘stats’ shield is exotic.
But the ‘looks’ shield is just the basic one.
I meant that in a game where looks are most of the ‘endgame’ it’s a bit silly that the most engineer looking shield I found, was an actual common blue…

I’m using a silly basic shield.
Simply because it’s one of the few darn shields out there that says ‘engineer’ to me.

Picture attached, not for bragging rights since it’s a low level basic piece of junk… but to show what I mean with ‘engineer’ looking.

If only the enemy would see the seizure effect. They would think I got a stroke and would leave me be when I drink this buggy elixir…

It’s not that the shield looks bad, it actually looks pretty cool.
But it doesn’t say ‘engineer’ to me. Not at all.

It says ‘priest, paladin, shining knight on a mission…’ etc to me, in other words: guardian in this game.

Cool shield, but they should make one that screams ‘engineer’.
but than again: they should do that for a lot of the gear options…

This all is remarkably close to my latest ventures in build experiments.
It’s fun

That’s the annoying part: the devs talk about how this one 10 point trait is too strong.
But they remain silent about how most of the other traits in that line are too weak for being 30, 20 or even 10 points…

If you nerf one, buff the others devs… it’s not that hard to understand.

Mesmers already have a lot going for them, so i really wonder why they get all the fun new stuff.
how come some of those ideas weren’t used or the engineer, who still needs some defining abilitiesin groups since launch.